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I find it interesting that people think of humanity as a plauge, a cancer upon this planet.....

Without actually looking about to see what a true beating this world is capable of taking without loosing life.... (limbs are lost tho definately microbe's don't have 'em)

The thought that humanity is a plauge is rooted in the sence of human superiority.... that humans are better than other life, and are more powerful, and that we should be more responcible.

It also leads to the wrong assupmtions about other life and what should be done with it.

I guess my thought is if humans are a malevoant disease worthy of being eraticated to preserve other life why is it so and is it something that only we do? If we're not the only life that does it then don't we owe it to the world to purge it of life that shares our disease qualities before we eraticate ourselves?

It is not our job to purge anything. To properly purge would be to destroy all of mankind. And we are not asked to do that.

we are pretty plague-ish... you gotta admit that much.

we are the superior species on this planet (myths aside) by sheer number. and nothing (myths aside) can change it. and we are visibly destroying our planet.

that's why people see our race as a plague.

then again. we probably won't change much till we're near death.

it's like when people say there should be traffic lights in a certain area or a crossing in another. the council won't put them there until there's an accident. They never see the possibility that they put it there ASAP and nothing will happen in the first place.

still... we are pretty plague-ish... no matter what angle you look at it

well there are more species of insects than there are individual humans on the planet.... so our numbers are nothing by comparison.....

as for visibly destroying the planet that is human arrogance and pride.... cause we've done nothing akin to other species as I have mentioned elsewhere.... plants are the biggest polluters by a long shot if you look at the origional composition of our atmosphere (mostly devoid of oxygen)..... and our damage to the world is very very minor compared to asteroid impacts that have caused mass extinctions. I guess my main point being is that the doom saying mentality doesn't hold up under examination.

ahh but you're looking into the past. we are polluting our current atmosphere... just as trees polluted out own.

you could say we are doing damage to our prefered atmosphere.

i should've also put "number, size and brain power" in my last post. i don't think insects would beat humans even if they have superior numbers. that was what i should've said... silly me

heh the smartest animal by brainmass to body mass is a spider named portia.... that hunts other spiders for food....

and insects beat us all the time with locust swarms, mosquito born malaria, killer bees, cockroaches invadeing our homes, fire ants and the list goes on ;)

but I am very glad that you brought up the point that when you quote enviormental damage you should keep in mind that we're mainly concerned with maintaing the enviorment in a state in which we can survive.... we're no threat to the world we're a threat to ourselves

That's a really negative way to look at humanity and we shouldn't be seen as such because everything here has a right to be here, and besides that is a slap in our makers faces. Nobody has the right EVER to say what belongs here and what doesn't. Sure we can keep looking throught that black chrystal ball and see humanity as worthless and a bad seed, but that isn't true at all. Humanity has done good things too, and a lot of ignorant people out there are just too self absorbed to notice it. I would recommend for those that see things negatively to do something community wise and try doing something to help make you see more clearly.

We're the dominant lifeform on this planet. We're not a plague. Some people watch The Matrix too much. :-)

Definitions of plague on the Web:

* a serious (sometimes fatal) infection of rodents caused by Yersinia pestis and accidentally transmitted to humans by the bite of an infected rat flea (especially bubonic plague)
* any epidemic disease with a high death rate
* infestation: a swarm of insects that attack plants; "a plague of grasshoppers"
* any large scale calamity (especially when thought to be sent by God)
* blight: cause to suffer a blight; "Too much rain may blight the garden with mold"
* an annoyance; "those children are a damn plague"
* harass: annoy continually or chronically; "He is known to harry his staff when he is overworked"; "This man harasses his female co-workers"

In order for the human race to be a plague we'd have to be malignantly effecting a LIVING entity. The planet, by and large, is as a whole inanimate. It's "living" but not a living being.

Now, if this thread is meant to be metaphoric, then I still think people watch The Matrix too mcuh. :-D

Wing, I love ya honey.. but read your post again...:

"... everything here has a right to be here, and besides that is a slap in our makers faces. Nobody has the right EVER to say what belongs here and what doesn't."

You just did.

Secondly...Mordes...

P-L-A-G-U-E... fix that.

Last I looked... humans are the only species (mind you there is only one species of human...homosapien... there are many COLORS...) that destroy their environment conciously.

Agreed, Jason...
Too much Matrix

Ok first off .. I had to go out and buy the "Mordes for Dummies" book so that I could understand exactly what you meant ... ya know you have a deep mind and are very hard to comprehend most of the time (thanks Khay) uhm .. and if I'm STILL misunderstanding some thing here, please feel free to explain to me in private exactly what it is I'm missing ..

ok .. now on to your questions... (sorry, gotta break it down this way or I get confused, not hard to do)

"The thought that humanity is a plauge is rooted in the sence of human superiority.... that humans are better than other life, and are more powerful, and that we should be more responcible."

Now are you referring strictly to earth, or do you believe there are other species .. humanoid or not out there? ... has it this theory truly been proven or dis proven .. I've never seen any but if there are .. I'd have to say that more then likely there would be more that are far superior then our human race/life .. if you're referring strictly to earth I think it's been proven time and time again that animals (not all species mind you) are more responsible and more superior ... just because humans walk on two legs and speak different languages, doesn't necessarily mean that we are superior .. we were created or evolved that way depending on what one believes ...

"if humans are a malevoant disease worthy of being eraticated to preserve other life why is it so and is it something that only we do?"

Are there not packs of animals who when one is diseased .. that they will either turn on the one and kill it, or leave it to die alone ... how different is that from what humans do?

"If we're not the only life that does it then don't we owe it to the world to purge it of life that shares our disease qualities before we eraticate ourselves?"

What would be the sense of killing ourselves off to save the planet ... again depending on ones beliefs ... the bible tells of this being done, save one man and his family, they were left to rebuild the planet ... only to have corruption and plague and disease find it's way right back ... so eradicating ourselves would serve no purpose ... least not in my opinion ...

hmm. well we do destroy alot but who made us the controler of everything in the first place. we assumed that role and we are kinda destroying things in the name of progress. i think that we often forget that we are part of nature and all we do in a paradox way is natural even if it is destroying nature. I say either we fix what we think is wrong and let it go the way its going and see where it leads.

all i said was nobody has the right to say who or what belongs here, not saying that my word is law. and i love ya's too. LOL

"plagues" are things that seem to be dealt with every millenia give or take. We find a way to live and cope with those plagues and if human kind is the next plague, I think we're doing alright and we'll eventually kill ourselves out. The birth to death ratio is 7:9 anyway.

People seem too hopeful that we'll all die one day. I think that's sad.

I'm not hopeful, I'm just being realistic. Every major species has it's dues. We may be next. I hope not but we just might be

we are doing damage to our atmosphere.

we are a plauge and before u know it everything is gonna be wiped out or we are right now its too hard to tell. we evolve to survive

yes we are a plauge that needs to be wiped out.

this world has little beauty left and even that is being destroyed as we speak, with every new human thats born another problem arises, there is no population control.

beavers and musk rats knowingly destroy the enviorment they are in for their own benifit....

beavers do it to drown out the trees to make them easyer to eat and to make it harder for preditors to get them.....

sorry kayman....

The reason why I bring it up as a plague at all is that I keep on hearing people refering to us as such and we are by no means as destructive as people think.... we're not even a cold if you consider the planet a life form.....

Dami I think we're no better or worse than animals.... to place either above one another leads to misinterpretation in my estimation.... as it requires a double standard one for humans and one for animals.... also the classification of animals as more intrensicly noble than us is insulting in general as it implys that lessened faculties == more right.... more correct.... if that is the case why strive to become better? Why isn't everyone striving to become more base,,,, um ... ok scratch that I just remebered reality tv.

The major reason I created this thread was to highlight the absurdity of thinking of the human race in such simple and ultimately flawed ways..... I say if we're to be damned then let's be damned for an honest and well thought out assessment

i'll drink to that Mordes

i shall drink to it too, if were doomed, we should be doomed for a darn good reason.

i'll hand out the mordes for dummies book as I think I wrote the damn thing....
deep...ya like a mud puddle....
hehhe
just kidding...but seriously.....in many ways we do act like a disease.....but it does not mean we are one....
we do show however that we are more like spoiled children who have yet to learn to play fair and share their toys.....the toy being planet earth.....with it's other inhabitants....and on the bugs thing.....
if insects were ever to gain signifigantly in size...we would be quickly history...

true,true.

the sharks are the garbage disposals of the ocean and the crows the garbage disposals of the skay henc thier Canibal acts. every animal seems to have some purpose even if they dont they are the food to other creatures who have a "greater purpose" i suppose you can say.. and our intelleggence gives us our purpose on this earth which is to protect it... but we are too intellegent for our own good.

yup but who knows how far the mud goes....

and insects will never gain in size as they would require either real lungs or significantly more oxygen in the atmosphere.....

the lungs arn't possible with out significantly re-working their internal organs.... so that their exoskeletons could support it....

and well the more oxygen there is in the air the cooler it is on this planet because more oxygen means less carbon dioxide so you increase the oxygen and then you make it so bugs could grow big that is if they could live anywhere but the equator...

and there goes daermon causeing my train of thought to derail in a bunch of twisted concepts and busted screaming memes...

mwahahaha......and my evil plotting works again

We are all what we are and that is that really if I am wrong the oh well nothing was lost really but one mind in the wrong direction to no where....I think really to much matrix for some ppl but hey its a cool movie though

i love this thread because it comes packed with men and intelligent minds. *drools*

Nature finds it's own balance...and we are gonna get our arses kicked for what we do to this planet..mother nature deals us disease and famine and disaster after disaster to control us....we are weak and feeble yet too arrogant to see it 'cos we think making fire is the be all and end all...if ya get me.... ;)

We think we are superior, however we all know what the mice have had in store for us ...LOL

Wing...you make me giggle...~grins~

Forget the Matrix...HHGTTG makes far more sense to me....LOL

'xactly sunshine.... man isn't big and bad... we're an ape with an attitude problem... tho I guess the little hat and the tin cup don't help with that....

I think humans may be an accident of evolution. We have pretty much escaped the systems of checks and balances usually found in nature. This could also account for diseases such as ebola and aids, nature trying to create new ways to balance out it's ecosystems.

well there have been imbalances in nature before....

The begining of plants as a lifeform is the biggest example.... they produced so much oxygen so quickly that the temperature of the planet plummeted almost wipeing them out if it wasn't for volcanic regions on the planet plants would have died out from their own production of oxygen....

The trick being with man is that we're better than zooplankton.... we can see what we're doing... we can choose paths and hence we're in a unique position.... we can force the hand of god if need be to ensure our survival....

What scares me is that we're wasteing our potential...

I think it is wise to keep an open mind about these things. If we deny closure of thought that other life forms exist that are superior than our own humanity on this earth, then why haven't we met them? Are they waiting for mankind to destroy the world first?

Btw Mordes.. I like your particular kind of "plauge" heh

Fancy speaking about Cancer in the manner!!!

Mordes... to my room now... I have a new paddle that needs breaking in.

As for this infestation of humanity ( i can't spell the order word *winks*) Makes you think that we don't have anything better to do than to complain rather than fix what they see as a problem.....

Power of One I believe I once heard quoted....

MM

'Xactly moreish.....

doing something.... anything is better than falling into dispair..... thinking of humanity as a disease is just another form of dispair but it's a convienient form of dispair 'cause it makes one think that they are better than the person next to you cause you've stripped away their humanity .... you've made them a disease....

My bad.. I said something logical...

>:)

On retroflection.. I'd say superior lifeforms other than humans don't exist on earth. Agrees with Mordes..My mistake, I misread the post darling - mind weary *drums fingers* sorry!

great two attractive women appologising to me at once.... I should go out and buy a lottery ticket ;)

*hides*

those two women both apologizing at once......and lo I saw a pale rider on a pale horse....

Thinkig about things Mordes said in this thread always leads me to a dead end. My opinion is that humans are product of some higher form of life trying to act like a god and that we are just a beta version, someone's unfinished experiment. Why? The keyword is BALANCE! We are not balanced with nature. There is no balance even within among our own race. Laws of natural selection are not quite apliable on our race, it's not that the strongest/smartest survives and leaves the offspring, almost all survive, no matter how corrupt, and can continue it's corrupted bloodline, so now we have corrupted race. What is corrupted tends to corrupt more and more and tends to currupt it' s environment to the point of self destruction. But imperfect (us) can never be stronger than perfect (nature), so I believe that we can never destroy nature, we can only make it corrupted to the level at which we can't live in it anymore.

Those are my conclusions when I think about this topic on an "earthly" level, but if I try to percieve things from a more universal, more godlike position I realize that something that shouldn't exist and if something doesen't have a purpose, that simply don't exist, so if we are already here, we should probably be here. I believe that on some other far away planet exists a race that has a power to create that is equal to our power to destroy so that universal balance could be maintained. And that race probably mindlesly creates like we mindlesly destroy and asks God "Oh God, what is our purpose in this universe?" :)

So I believe that we are a plague in this universe, but what scares me is that there is a posibility that our purpose is to be a plague!

Name a plague 9bar us in this argument) that is self aware.
And if it was self aware it would endevour to survive kind of like us we know we are a destructive force but we have no desire to ultimately self terminate and there is hope we can change and you must also remember once we were not as we are now maybe it is hopefully a phase we are goin through

There is saying that everything turns into its contrariety, at the end, and there could be posibility that this is just a phase in the evolution, as Chaos said, but there is also posibility that this is the end phase of a once powerful and creative race that is now evolving into its own destruction... how about that?

I'm kinda pesimistic with a future of a human race.

humans think they're gods,they are distroying nature and themselves...

humans are plauge in teh sence that all the do is find a place to populate and then cusume every thing there and the move somewhere else after it is empty.
however humans are need to advance this world.