The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

I believe that since paganism is the oldest of all the religions that it existed before vampirism did. But was it a pissed off pagen that started drinking the blood of others that Created vampires. Or was there vamps as soon as there were humans?

Paganism is far older than recorded Wicca.

Pecti-wica was born out of Paganistic ideas in Scotland before the Roman Era and was eventually subsumed with the demise of the Picts and developed through the middle ages into traditional 'Witchcraft'. So, I would have to say that Vampyric 'legend' would make it an older way of being than Wicca specifically.

I should have phrased it alittle differently I think, I didnt mean wicca in general as I was leaning towards paganism as a whole.

Perhaps Pagan and Shamanistic ideas were born to man in order to combat the vampires and demons?

well that is one point of view I didnt think about

I believe that Vampirism has been around since the beginning of time!

It may have been since we were born into eating meat ( for the most part). The first also drank the blood Im sure.

Wicca is one of the newest faiths of paganism. This being said.... I would say the vampire came first. Now if you want to say paganism, as in druid, or something like that I would have to actually do some research, for all I know they were around at the same time. That one is a mystery to me.

wiccan......vampirism didn exist until the 1300 but religion has always existed....so ya....

I am curious as to why you would say vampirism did not exist until the 1300's?

There are tales of vampire-like beings throughout the myths and lore of many areas of the world that far pre-date the 12th century.

lol well that's what I get for posting without proof reading...that should be 14th century.

Actually the Vampire came first.

The "Wiccan" didn't come about to the late 20th century.

paganism and vampirism among other religions were around for thousands of years in ancient babylon and myan civilizations but it was said that pagans became vampires after their death and they also performed blodd drinking rituals

Thats a hard one.....I think they were both around considerind wicca is concidered mondern day witchcraft......both witches and vampires have existed for a very long time

People started opening up to the thought of vampirism around Vlad Tepes time.. but noone really knows, or (i believe) will ever know how long vampires have been around before people really started believing.

Isnt Wicca a somewhat newer religion?
Because its based of off paganism..

Well the first time Vampires were "documented" was around 1047, first accounts in England for Vampiric beings was around 1190.

Although there have been tales of them "pre-history".

hm, thats interesting..
Well Wicca is a newer religion, not NEW, but defiantly not that old.
So I believe Vampires have been around longer than Wicca
Now witchcraft.. that may be a little harder

hm..............im stumped i think both around since the begging of time

Well I think that Vampires came first because of Lilith who was the mother of all demons and such.

i believe vamps came before wiccans...

I would like to think that Vampyrism, the actual condition was around since the beginning of time. I believe in the ideals of Sep Tepy, yet there are thoughts on it that I would like to put in a more biblical ideaoligy.

Panganism came about in the 5000 bce era or at least the recorded acts of such, which were that of many verious Gods and Goddess, I.E. Ra, Horus, Anubus Sekhment, Set. That was the first ideal of Religion not to mention Gnotism, Hermetics, Platosim and such came about later in the BCE Era. I feel that Wicca, as your putting it, didn't come about until the very later, like 500 or less BCE, near the dawn of Christ. Wicca really wasn't seen heavily until the Dark Ages, which is when the Crusades and such started to arise and the acts of Monotheisim became powerful and abundent all over the world.

- Sin

They both existed from the beginning of times.

okay first of all they were both here,second,the first vamp was vlad

Wicca is a relatively new religion, so obviously the vampire lore is much older.

There was a cup found in the region of old Mesopotamia that depicts a man fending off a blood sucking creature. So, at very least the vampire legend is as old as their culture. But before that, I couldn't say with certainty.

- D

I am curious as to the persons who are saying that wicca is a 'new' religion. It isn`t a new religion at all, I think you`re just confusing it with all the New Age hocus pocus. Wicca came into the open in the 1950`s, that is true, however it CAME INTO THE OPEN at that time... it was there since before the 14th century... the main tenets I mean. And paganism came into existance with the first homo-sapiens, so I guess there`s no question whether paganism or vampirism came first.

I think vampirism actually evolved from paganism,because pagans believed in giving the blood of their kings to the earth. After that, they began giving some of this blood to some elect/chosen, so that these could assimilate the power of the earth... and from there evolved vampirism. That`s why vampirism is very much related to the earth - its dark aspect of course.

I tought wicca is an old religion but now it has new practices.

And there are a lot of wiccan types of religion.

And not only wicca is a pagan religion I can't see why only wicca is mentioned.

Ok it's a ranty site but just cause certain wiccans behave in a certain way that doesn't mean all.

Cause if it would be all than it would bel ike pre-judism.

In the site map, if you continue down the page on the aforementioned site..you will find a section titled the 'History of Wicca'. This is the section that should be of interest.

- D

The page wouldn`t come up, and anyway even if it did, I`ve researched wicca for years and am not gonna be influenced by any jumping jack who pops up.

You might try googling it..sometimes the server has issues to from what I understand. That seems to be a bit of a steadfast position. I'm not going to attempt to change it though. I feel that most experts in the field will agree. I do recommend you google it though, it may be of use one day in the future.

- D

Ancient magics came before the vampire definantly but the wiccan came hundeds of years later

I am trying to access it through google. Still nothing. Whatever...

OK.

mrd, that particular site is little more than one person's rather narrowly educated opinion.

In several places, his vitriol actually does rant. And I have to disagree entirely that modern Wicca does not teach skills such as hunting and skinning animals, because it in fact, does, if one reads the right material.

Not only that, but he also claims that there is no connection between the current philosophies of that practice and the one of Medievil times. I say that there is and that this is expounded in archival records and family traditions throughout Scotland for many centuries.

ok since "vampirism" doesnt have a solid historical beginning, we can rule that out logically speaking and technically it doesn't need to be compared to religion at all.
Wiccan is one of the newb religions.

youngvampireneedsblood88: A little research would reveal that mentions of vampirelike beings have been found dating back to ancient Babylon as well as Tibet circe 5000 BC - two cultures that had NO contact whatsoever. Hope that helps, ya?

Ashkalon is correct in that Wicca came to fore in the 20th century. Again a little research shows that there are different "wiccas". Gardnerian Wicca for instance was founded in the 1930s by a male British civil servant.

Many who adhere to the Old Religion dissociate their Faith from modern Wicca. They contend that modern Wicca appropriated bits and pieces from many different belief systems and is not pure. There are those that are adherents to the Old Religion that could speak authoritatively on this subject.

In the article at the end of this post you will see that Wiccans tend not to see Witchcraft (The Old Religion) as a religion. It seems that it is at times as muddled as western Christianity.

The roots of the word Pagan are from Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pagus, country, rural district. See pag- in Indo-European Roots. (Dictionary.com).

It has come to refer to one who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
I point this out because many people mislabel paganism as a religion.

So, the Vampire, or more specifically the vampire by many other names easily predates what we call Wicca.

----

I decided rather than get into an argument with Wiccans, I would post this article from wicca.com.

The article below was written by our late webmaster, Herne. In it, he describes how Wicca draws from the Old Traditions of Witchcraft. While this is true, we would simply like to clarify up front that Witchcraft and Wicca, while similar in many respects, are not the same. One can be a Witch, without being a Wiccan, just as a person can be a Christian, without being a Baptist. Futhermore, Wicca is a recognized religion, while Witchcraft itself is not considered a religion. Thus, Wicca might best be described as a modern religion, based on ancient Witchcraft traditions.

What Is Wicca


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Contrary to what those who choose to persecute or lie about us wish to believe, Wicca is a very peaceful, harmonious and balanced way of thinking and life which promotes oneness with the divine and all which exists.

Wicca is a deep appreciation and awe in watching the sunrise or sunset, the forest in the light of a glowing moon, a meadow enchanted by the first light of day. It is the morning dew on the petals of a beautiful flower, the gentle caress of a warm summer breeze upon your skin, or the warmth of the summer sun on your face. Wicca is the fall of colorful autumn leaves, and the softness of winter snow. It is light, and shadow and all that lies in between. It is the song of the birds and other creatures of the wild. It is being in the presence of Mother Earths nature and being humbled in reverence. When we are in the temple of the Lord and Lady, we are not prone to the arrogance of human technology as they touch our souls. To be a Witch is to be a healer, a teacher, a seeker, a giver, and a protector of all things. If this path is yours, may you walk it with honor, light and integrity.

Wicca is a belief system and way of life based upon the reconstruction of pre-Christian traditions originating in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. While much of the information of how our ancestors lived, worshiped and believed has been lost due to the efforts of the medieval church to wipe our existence from history, we try to reconstruct those beliefs to the best of our ability with the information that is available.

Thanks to archaeological discoveries, we now have basis to believe that the origins of our belief system can be traced even further back to the Paleolithic peoples who worshipped a Hunter God and a Fertility Goddess. With the discovery of these cave paintings, estimated to be around 30,000 years old, depicting a man with the head of a stag, and a pregnant woman standing in a circle with eleven other people, it can reasonably be assumed that Witchcraft is one of the oldest belief systems known in the world toady. These archetypes are clearly recognized by Wiccan as our view of the Goddess and God aspect of the supreme creative force and predate Christianity by roughly 28,000 years making it a mere toddler in the spectrum of time as we know it.

Witchcraft in ancient history was known as "The Craft of the Wise" because most who followed the path were in tune with the forces of nature, had a knowledge of Herbs and medicines, gave council and were valuable parts of the village and community as Shamanic healers and leaders. They understood that mankind is not superior to nature, the earth and its creatures but instead we are simply one of the many parts, both seen and unseen that combine to make the whole. As Chief Seattle said; "We do not own the earth, we are part of it." These wise people understood that what we take or use, we must return in kind to maintain balance and equilibrium. Clearly, modern man with all his applied learning and technology has forgotten this. Subsequently, we currently face ecological disaster and eventual extinction because of our hunger for power and a few pieces of gold.

I apologize for being so vague, so I'll rephrase. I do not support everything said on that site. I do, however, believe that so called Wicca was not Wicca until Gardener expounded on it. His 'exact' system is and was unique in several aspects for it's time. I do not, and did not say, that pagan traditions similar to his system did not exist before this time. I only say that Wicca, as it stands, did not. This was the only point on that site meant to used, and none other. My purpouse here is not to denouce Wicca or older systems of paganism, merely to support the idea that Wicca itself is newer in the religious scheme.

- D

- D

I think we've found some common ground here. I consent that Wicca, though newer, is an extention of an older system. As such, it deserves it own place as a branch. I still wish I knew which occult system specifically gave rise to the contrived practice of astral vampirism as a skill. I've heard stories that the vampire of Eastern Europe was quite likely imported from India. It does make me wonder, with such an emphasis on transcendental practices..if this is perhaps a likely home for such practices. Any ideas?

- D

The OP did restate he meant "paganism" in general, not just Wicca.

On that stance, Paganism has been around for as long as humankind has had a sense of something greater than themselves. Paganism has existed since the first person worshipped the first thing as a God-like being.

As to whether its older than vampirism? Who knows, are you depicting vampirism as merely one person consuming the blood of another or something else?

I wouldn't say paganism was around since the beginning of man.

OK the vampire came first!

Wicca is just out not to long ago to my knowledge!

Witchcraft however was first out of all three to let you all know.~NFA

what do you think paganism is?

"Pagan" comes from the latin word "paganus" a word meaning "country dweller" or civilian.


Paganism as a religion, means any polytheistic faith.

Humankind has been polytheistic since it first recognised the idea of their being "Gods" so of course its been around since human-kind became aware of itself.

that isnt a fact either

what isnt fact?

another thing, so what if it came from Latin. Not like latin was the very first language of the world.

what does that have to do with the price of bacon?

You're just being obtuse, if you're going to argue, at least come up with a decent arguement.

paganism, like wicca, like any modern word, is a turn of phrase used to describe a concept that has been around longer than any recognised language in use today.

The concept of "paganism" is that of polytheistic worship, a NON christian, NON jew and NON muslim. Check the encyclopedia and dictionary's if you dont believe me.

Therefore, with that concept of that word, PAGANISM has been around since the first person worshipped the first thing as a God

and i assure you that it was not called paganism

what was it called then? Show some proof, its no good making a statement like that without backing it up, thats the whole point of a discussion

What was it called?

ancient egyptian

Then do you beleive that the origins of the vampire are out of Africa?

"ancient egyptian"

That would be considered a race, not a religion.

Ancient Egyptian what?

The Egyptians were not the first, or only people to show belief in a polytheistic religion, the greeks did as well.

The only difference is, both these countries were able to document their faiths so we know for definite that they did indeed follow polythiestic faith.

It is also well known from paintings found by archeologists that early man also had a sense of "god-hood" in the things around him.

Could you possibly give me some links or references to sites or articles that clearly point to the origins of vampires as coming about in ancient Egypt? I am just curious as to why you believe this with such certainty and would be interested in reading some of the info on the subject.

Intersting, as I spoke with another member, named LordSeth in regards to the origins of 'his' order of vampires, of which he claims a membership in the thousands on the west coast of the USA. He too said that the vampire blood he stemmed from originated in Pre-exodus Egypt.

He was reluctant to go into any detail though...

What it was 'called' is irrelevant. The point is the concept of worshipping more then one God (or Nature worship) is older then the concept of monotheism.

Now once you've established that the first religion would by todays standards be considered 'Pagen' it isn't much of a stretch to say that it came first, before Vampirism, and not after.

OK here's the "facts" as it would be according to a Biblical referance.

God created all creatures great and small, so here in we would have leaches, mosquito's, vampire bats, and other vampiric creatures.

Adam and Eve would have been mono-theistic if God had set up religion at that point.

So "vampires" would in fact be older then even the Ancient Egyptians.

If you are seriously going to reference the bible here about what came first, that's a bad idea..

Which came first the wiccan or the egg?

the egg of course

"ElyriaBloodshadow : the problem with people is that they believe everything must be on the internet or on paper which isnt so. try looking elsewhere for information, then one might understand"

I never said I only looked to the internet for answers. I think you read more into the words then were there. I happen to have been studying such topics...both religion/spirituality and vampirism since long before I even had an opportunity to be introduced to the internet.

However as we are currently on the internet I did in fact ask you to suggest places where I might learn more about this particular theory of vampiric evolution. Internet is but one option. Granted I have not been to Egypt in years, and probably won't be back for a good long time so any personal attention to archeological digs and historical sites and archives of that nature will have to wait. Hence my asking you for suggested places to seek out more info.

It seems clear, at least to myself, that essential paganism would have had to have come before vampirism. Since, if vampirism(not blood drinking) were to be practiced by any of these cultures..it would lend to the idea that they already believed in the possibility of an afterlife.

- D

Oh really?

Then I go back to an earlier statement. "Wiccian" was started in the 20th century, vampiric creatures have been around MUCH longer.

Wicca has only existed as a structured religion for around 50 years, though it does have roots in older beliefs and practices. src http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/historywicca/

lol well as long as neither vampires nor wiccans or any other pagans hatched from the egg (well aside from the human egg that is) I guess the egg beats all of us out then.

*grins*

I say the Vampire came first. The more I read, the more convinced I am that vampires, and vampirism is older then time. Nope, no RPG to support my beliefs (never is, actually).

O.o the posts about Vlad confuse me..
What does he have to do with all of this?
Vlad wasnt really considered a vampire.. He was "blood thirsty" because he killed his victims by making them bleed to death with a various of methods

Personally wiccan is a very new religion, now if you had said Celtic /Ancient Druidism...I know that they were around at the same time as the vampyric history was started........for there were many killings and wars between celt/vampires.


listed below is a few links.....to explain some timelines.......

You cant say that eygptians were the first language.....just that it was the first one written down or chiselled out of stone.....there were other ways to show that there were other cultures and religions....by buildings or burial mounds which are being discovered every day with modern archaeology.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/druid.htm

http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~vampire/vhist.html

http://www.ancient-egypt.org/

I always thought Vampirism came first.

From what I have gather wiccan is the newest, resulting in the other been the oldest. Of course I havent done anyof this but its what I have gotten from others.

Paganism is old religion in general. Wicca didn't come about the early in the BCE. Infact, I doubt that the creator of this world and us decided to make religion right off the bat to tell the truth. Not to mention wicca didn't come about until AFTER the great Deluge or A.K.A the Flood that killed everyone except those on the Ark.

No real religion came about until after the flood. Because it was after that flood is when God started to seek out a man to start the first monotheism and become ethically stable.

It was probably during this time when God was trying to create an ethically sound means of being known is when Wiccan, Gnoticism, Hermetics, Platoism and such came about.

Not to mention this is when the slow flux of those who were brought into sep tepy started to re-awaken. Finding it safe to be upon the physical world then in the spirital now that God has dedcided not to flood the earth again.

I doubt Vampyrism started off from a single religion seeing that ALL cultures have their very own similiar aspects to Vampirism. I doubt Wiccan ideals got around the world and excepted, specially in China and Japan.

Also aneres the first Vampire was not Vlad, that was created out of a fiction noval created by a damn good writter. Vlad the inpaliar, or Vlad the III, the Son of the Dragon was a living person. Vampirism was been around a lot longer then Vlads time.

- Sin

Oh sorry for the spelling errors.

Its all good i think everyone can understand what you meant.

It seems the only person on here who actually researched this before posting was scion of requiem. The earliest mention of early judism, and paganism was first discovered in the very early CE Period. I have done research on this and only got so far as 100 BCE. here is a link to a small bit of info I have found.. I am not liek Scion and have the literary text at my disposal.. HA HA.

http://www.answers.com/topic/year-100-ce

A theologist would say religion came first, A scientist would say lets calculate the figures. There really is not true mention how far back paganism goes. I see it like this everything evolves around metaphysics.

Stab is correct.

Wicca is a fairly new religion, IF it can be called a religion, after all, it isn't real witchcraft.

The Vampire, however, has been around since the biblical days. Perfect example? Lilith.

Sorry, if i am repeat what has been said, have not slept for a few weeks.

Oh! Paganism?

About the same time, i believe.

Wait.. no.. that isn't correct.. If you believe that Lilith was the first wife of Adam, then Vampires came first.

Although, the bible, i have heard, does say "Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live" So that can be a clue to how recently Paganism came out after..

Maybe not, since they considered people who did not follow the Christ God (such as the Ancient Celts) Pagans.

As it has been said, the bible may not be such a great place to learn our history lessons.

- D

Well said.

If i wanted to read a book of fiction, i would read the Necronimicon.

I do not like Close-minded deities, saying how they are above us.. How humans are unworthy of their prescence..


They seem like lambs to a slaughter to me, for some reason.. poor fools..

To the Christians: I am sorry for my blasphemy, but i really have a lot of anger for this Christ God..

Paganism means Old Religion. As in Gnoticism, Hermetics, Platoism, Wicca and such. These are usually catagorized in such do to the fact they they do not follow the monotheism and instead either rely on many different Gods and Goddesses (Which in fact is God and the many aspects God is known by), or relys on philosophy.

Yet, if one was to really think about Paganism, Judisim can also be considered a Pagan religion as well, just do the fact it was the first monotheism religion to be created.

Catholism (think thats how you spell it), came around in the late dark ages. In which, do the fact many people stayed with the aspect of many different Gods and Goddesses, I believe it was a famous king, can't remember who, who created Catholism to try and draw some of the "Pagans" into the light of God and the figure known as jesus.

This is all rather riviting to tell the truth. If you actually get into it and learn, yet I'm not going to say the information I delvulg is accurate to all means, but I would like to believe its alot more sound and holds more water then someone claiming that Vlad Dracula was the first vampire, when infact, Vampirism has been around since probably the dawn of time.

And by the way, this vampirism isn't some undead condition either.

- Sin

Pa·gan·ism
n. (-ĭz'm)

[L. paganismus: cf. F. paganisme. See Pagan, and cf. Painim.]
The state of being pagan; pagan characteristics; esp., the worship of idols or false gods, or the system of religious opinions and worship maintained by pagans; heathenism.

Like usual, Stab666 knows what he's talking about. What is currently known as "wicca" is less than a century old. But paganism, which embodies many of the qualities of wicca is as ancient as anything.

If you ask some, vampires are ancient as well, going back many thousands of years. Take a look at the theories on possible links between vampirism and nephilim (see relevant forum posts). So who can say with any authority?

Wicca isn't and olde religion. 50 years? hardly old.

And yes, i think the smart vampiric members are aware that True Vampires are much different then your traditional RPG ones, like Vampire - The Requiem.

The above definition seems quite biased indeed dosen't it. Yet this is the first definition for the word if you google it. I hope someone changes something about this one day..the lack of understanding of it contributes to great loss indeed.

- D

Perhaps if an unbiased, open-minded person were to write a new dictionary and properly define terms such as 'Witch' or 'Satanism' and yes, 'Pagan' as well, then that could be a reality.

But that is not likely to happen, as most of the 'Normal World' turn their noses up at Goths, Vampires, Witches, Heathens, etc, if we don't fit in to their ideal POV of society...


i mean, stop living in the bleeding dark ages..

It would be nice if people did realize the true nature of the world. Yet your not going to find that happening any time soon. So all we can do is get together like this and discuss everything to the extent that we do now and hope that one day some how, someone will awaken the world into the reality that they have actually pushed to the side.

- Sin

I have tried.. starting with close friends, then witht e-groups..

but closemindedness has made me cease my desire for public awareness..

so i say, if humans and others want to be close-minded? Fuck them.

I don't know about anyone else here. I've actually found that these so-called "humans"*twitch*, accept my vampirism much more readily than do most vampires.

- D

You're lucky..

My aunt almost disowned me, when she caught me feeding.

It's natural that they should be shocked by what is chalked up to cannabalism is almost any civilized culture. I find that the right words are key in these times, of course it's best just not to get caught at all. You'll know who your real allies are in the end.

- D

I beleive vampirism came before the wiccan relgion...

It is my own belief that vampirism was first or that it coincides with paganism. There has always been some kind of 'worship' since the beginning of 'human' kind. Whether it was the animals or the earth or the sun..or whatever, praise was given to an entity.

In a sense, I believe the more primitive cultures had a firm root in blood rites and rituals as well, although not in human blood, but animal blood after a kill or during ceremonies.

Yeah, well, it's kinda hard when you're aunt Ixia barges into a room you thought you had locked, demanding to know where your bleeding sister is..

I rather not tell everyone that I know personally in my life that I'm an Awakened Vampyre. I tell a select few and end up talking to those people so they know more of what the real condition is and things tend to work out well that way.

Online since no one can see my face, hear my voice or know my name then I do not have to worry about being exposed myself.

- Sin

Well I am in agreance with most of you on here just cos its on the internet does not make it the only source of truth or backing up its called a book read it.~NFA

hmm well I am not in to paganism all that much, well I used to be. I did do study up on the significance of the pentagram as pertaining to the religion of wiccan . It was on the shields and armor of ancient Celtic worriers who wore it during battle. 0ver the years the wiccan religion adopted the symbol as there the own..

Actually the Pentagram is used in many different workings then that of Wiccan and Celt. Its also used in Hermetic studies and energy working. I use it for summoning the energy into a room for ritual work and used to then banish those energies away when the ritual is done.

- Sin

Yeah I was a practicing wiccan in my younger days lol..But i found the religion to be a bit cynical...

We all seem to find flaws in a religion we wish to be apart of. Eventually its best to find something, even if you pieced it together yourself and your the only follower, more of your own style.

- Sin

some shamanists also use the pentagram in their workings. One of my good friends was born on an indian reservation and her grandmother is a shaman. She was brought up using the pentagram as a protection symbol and still wears one around her neck.

The earliest examples of pentagrams are found scratched into the walls of stone age caves. I'd say it's had quite a bit of use all around, in most cultures.

- D

well it had to come from someone's idea that the pentagram works. everything had to have a beginning and perhaps it was a symbol someone used for their own personal focusing tool that just happened to get passed around that it was a "need". But most have learned by now that the only thing you really need is your Will.

I believe that you probably do not need any more answers or opinions, but I would like to say that Vampirism and Wicca...They are not so far apart from each other...

do more research and youll find out that vampires started wicca.............

darkheartofhate,

Would you be able to provide some info on your research please, as this is something I would be interested to learn.

:)

I reiterate from my earlier post the definition of PAGAN.

The roots of the word Pagan are from Middle English, from Late Latin paganus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pagus, country, rural district. See pag- in Indo-European Roots. (Dictionary.com).

Well being a vampire would go against the Rede.

Remember "Harm None".

Taking blood or energy from a person can or will do harm. Be it intentional or not.

yeah but not all vampires are about "rules" either. A close friend of mine doesn't believe in Houses or Clans or rules laid out for people. He walks his own and still yet, a great man to know.

I study wicca but this one confuses me....I have no clue....

If anything, Shamanism dealt with vamps.
Not Paganism and definitely not Wiccan.

It has always been the Shaman that were train to handle demons and evil in general. Shamanism is older than dirt but spirit is older so i'll vote for the Vamp.

Well, since Wicca is a reconstructed religion that's only been around for 50 years. I would have to go with the Vampire.

Depending on your definition of vampirism it came way before. If you want to go back to the devouring of human flesh as a very rudimentary form of vampirism.

That exsisted long before even the first pagan rituals. It was just a form of survival.

I believe that vampires have been around longer but I will look it up sometime and come back to you.

this is a silly question. why would someone equate wiccanism with vampirism. i don't believe that one came about from the other. and just in case it is found that there is a correlation then this question is like asking which came first the chicken or the egg.

I do entertain the possibility that vampirism could have come before religion is we choose to look at it as more a superstitious practice than religious. It is quite possible that early warrior tribes, as we've seen before, equated the drinking of the dead enemy to imbibe of his qualities. As I said though, this is more an act of literal vampirism linked to superstition rather than religion, per se. It does however mark a point in which humans defined the idea of drinking blood as beneficial. Eh..it's an idea.

- D

wicca is a "new" form of paganism... if you read books on wicca you will see that alot of them thefer that you can pick the gods you will worship from several older religions.... it is based in many past pagan religions.... and atleast my own personal theory is that vampirisn is in a way evolved from humans... i mean there are still MEDICAL vampires around that have to have the nutrients that are in blood... who is to say that that isnt in part because of the energies in the blood and that psi vampirism maybe is a more evolved form of the other.... just that the person has evolved enough not to need the blood as a vessal for the enery?

Just to point out..there are no 'medical' vampires. Lots of people need nutrients in their blood, and lots of people lack the ability to process or create those nutrients. This dosen't make them vampires.

- D

i think mayvbe vamps before humans if possible

i believe that vampires have been around since the being of man and then pagans

I think it also has to do with your beliefs of vampires.
For instance, "medical" vampires, if thats your only idea of a real vampire, than I`m sure if you do enough medical research you could find the first diagnosis.
But if you believe that they just craze the energy, and have certain traits when they dont have it, or they just have certain traits either way, then it could be almost impossible to come up with how long theyve been around.

Well, conceivably, vampires have been around since the creation/evolution of man. Religion didn't come around for thousands of years after the first recognizable man, so I'd say vampirism.

well since "wiccan" is realativly new...and Pagan is just a church term for all religions other than theres...I'll have to go with pagan.

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