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http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060417/hl_nm/goths_dc

Right on Yahoo News page...another *goth* news story

How retarded..to blame "goth" or any type of music is ridicilous..grrrr

that article is pretty much BS i have never done anything to do harm myself i also no other ppl that have never either

I responded in a post..this is what I wrote.
by: ssatinmist (39/F/Dallas Tx) 04/17/06 07:37 pm EDT

I do not believe the true concept of what "goth or gothic" is. It is a label that society place on ppl, that are different. Suicide, and such things are not and should not be blamed for the sub culture. Music doesn't twist youths minds to harm themselves or others. Just because people have different ideas, beliefs and wears black, or doesn't fit in the box of society. Before you look at the subculture one calls Goth, first look at the home for the child. Someone isn't listening to the child. The buck stops with the parents. Doctors of all affiliations can do all the tests and add theories, but the truth of the matter is it stems from the home. Look there before one accuses.

oh plaese.. I've inflicted self harm.. but it's not because it was the "in" thing to do, or because I was copying someone. I was just stupid and saw it as the only way to deal with personal issues.

I chuckled at reading this quote in the article.

"But since our study found that more reported self-harm before, rather than after, becoming a Goth, this suggests that young people with a tendency to self-harm are attracted to the Goth subculture."

The reason that I find this funny is that this one quote alone completely contradicts their opening statement in the article.

Bah.. some people will look for any excuse to make something they dont understand look bad.

Silverbow I found that funny too, but took it more as the reporter going for the "SENSATIONAL" story by miss-quoting the reasearcher.

Notice how when in quotes it was a totally different statement. BAH, this is why I avoid what reporters write, they just are trying to "sell" a story. I find it's better to goto their resource for the story, especially if it is a study or health related as often they know NOTHING about the topic they are reporting on.

I hate when people blame the 'goth culture' and music for peoples actions. It's all just a load of crap! I personally used to self harm, but that was because I did/do suffer from depression and I couldn't cope. It wasn't because it was 'the thing to do in goth culture'! I know so many people that are much more heavily into the goth scene and heavy metal music etc and are perfectly fine! People self harm because they either can't ask for help, can't get the help, are scared to ask, or just don't want to. Admittedly, some people do do it for attention but those people are just as pathetic as the people that write these articles. If there's one thing I really truly cannot tolerate, it's ignorance! Because people are scared of the things they cannot understand, they just label it all together and blame one thing. Everyone then gets labelled as being messed up etc.! Grrrr!

thats retarded

Total BS! that just.. stupid.. they need a better reseach team...

I agree...everytime I see a story like this...it reminds me of The Cruxshadows song Levae me Alone....they make up their own ideas on *goth* culture.

I love Star Wars as much as the next person...but wearing black....DOES NOT lead to the dark side

Once you look past all the crap, there is some grain of truth to the article. Like where it said that self-harm was committed before, not after, joining the culture. This is especially true for myself. Once I found a place where I could belong and feel comfortable, I began to self-harm less and less. I didn't stop immediately, but gradually.

I'm going to try to phrase this to be nonflameful because it isn't my intention.

I think perhaps some of the responses here are either defensive or simply because you havne't encountered this particularly. However, at least in my area, many of the "goth culture" people have a tendancy towards depression. That isn't to say that all do - obviously not - and that isn't to say that many that aren't do not, but still - that tendancy seems strong from my personal experience.

Perhaps this article is bogus, and the reporter is an idiot - but I still think there is some truth to it. I do not think the Goth subculture influences people to be depressed or suicidal, but I think it has a more accepting feel to it, and has more of an attraction to people that are depressed or feel unwelcomed in other groups because of that.

I do, however, completely agree it is ignorant to try to blame problems with society on music, books, or a subculture - in fact I think quite the opposite should be explored (I'd have to think about that awhile though). I think instead society should blame it's elitist mentality on forcing some people to feel unwelcome, which is what the root of the problem with most depression is.

I'd like to amend that I don't even feel a majority of people in my area that are "goth" are depressed, or suicidal - just that it is more prevalent then other subcultures.

Well said, Vulash. Very well said.

Satin took the words outof my mouth, already. Well stated.

so there isn't even a least bit of truth in this article?

i found the underlying idea to be true:

a lot goth people self-harm. a lot of people who associate themselves with goth, self-harm.

the article merely points out a correlation, same as saying "goth people have introspective".

there is no causation, think back to psychology class and the 6 guidlines to good research everyone:
correlation does not equal causation.

while i feel the article is poorly written, the idea behind it is still valid.

This is so dumb I cannot even begin to talk about it... How about studying how governments, education systems and parents drive children to suicide as opposed to labeling a move that stands for freedom to be a part of it... So stupid....

Amazing how our society is in the year 2006...

Someone needs to learn how to research...stupid Robert Young.

Researchers, especially certain groups of psychologists, love to pick on subcultures and blame them for certain activities. What they don't focus on is what Satin pointed out so well is what is the underlying cause of the activity. For example, I had suffered from depression and used to self injure. And yet, 99% of the time, I appear clean cut. I am also a future high school teacher. Don't blame the subculture when the blame belongs on our entire judging, closeminded, hateful, lazy society for not protecting and taking care of our youth.

Thank you, Silent. Very well said.

One way you know this study is BS, notice they say "self-harm". Are they including body piercing and tattooing also in that category? It doesn't say, hence you don't know. It's all a question of angles.
When CNN had a quick bit about this up the other morning they were showing footage of RAVERS. LOL. I guess the morons didn't have any footage of goths, or care. Sad part is 99% of america doesn't know the difference or care.

I got a kick out of the pic of Manson. Why the hell is it anytime they have something to say about Goths they put that dumb bastard's pic up. MANSON IS NOT A GOTH!

Here's an article done about a month ago stating Goths were fairly well adjusted individuals.
http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/music/features/article352580.ece

Well put ~ SatinMist ~ very well indeed

It's amazing how truly stupid some of these people are. Plus referring to a happening SO far gone really bothers me. They need -new- data and a new research team, I agree.

Goths are always to blame. Its their fault that society is so shite apparently.

hm sounds like thier just a sterotyping but dont phycoclgist do that all the time. they judge without accually knowing wat thier thier talking about. thats just stupid. the article has preety much no truth its just assumptions by adult who dont bother to know before passing a final judgement on everyone putting it all in one group.

From the METRO newspaper , London ,
in their " overheard " section.


I was in a queue in a bank yesterday and these two girls behind me were making me smile. They were talking about how unique they were and that all their friends were chav's who wore what everyone else wore and they only wore things that other people didn't wear and all this sort of stuff. One comment in particular nearly made me laugh out loud.

"Cos yeah she's a total goth right?"
"Yeah she got totally all black on on"
"Nah, Goths's don't wear black any more."
"Don't they?"
"Nah, Goth's wear pink now."
"Really?!
"Yeah. If ya see somone down the steet wearing totally pink then they are a goth"

I was unaware of this and will keep and eye out for the new breed of Goth.

- Michael Record, Leicester, England


(this item is also in my profile......)

Society needs to blame someone for its mistakes and media needs to fuel all this otherwise there will be no subjects to present to the majority of stupids that believe all that they hear on TV or radio; this way of thinking is not healthy but the old habbits die hard...
Unfortunatelly, "goth" is often misunderstood even by those who claim to be "goth" or "gothic" and who believe that the only way of being cool or gothic is to be depressed all the time and try to kill yourself...again, society and, most of all, parents fault!
Also, in an interesting statistic, the majority of the adolescents who kill themselfs are not into "goth" or "satanism" but they happen to be kids pushed over their limits by their parents, children who believe all that they see on tv, children of rich people who have too much money on their hands and are bad influenced by bad-intended people or fall in the trap of drugs and alcohol.
But, in the hope that sometime the society will start thinking, we can just defend the reality and wait...

its a persons choice whether or not to kill themselfs it doesnt have anything to do with them being goth

I believe everyone chooses what they want to do, how they want to do... No matter the type of person, or religion of person. Goth is just a type, that is over-rated!

Death is done by one self. Not by religion.

I'm sorry, but I still disagree with most of the posters here. For you it may be that way, but even just when browsing profiles here the number of people that talk about being suicidal, having been suicidal, or cutting themselves is higher then you'd normally see.

that article is just bs, i'll admit i used to cut myself, but that was way before i ever concederd taking up my new lifestyle, as "goth".... so i think that the article is bs...

feh... sounds to me like a reporter was really scraped the barrel of his uncreative mind...

What a marplot IMHO.

that is BS it really doesn't matter what kind of music or kind of life you lead..if you do self-harm then you do it most of the time it doesn't matter what kind of music you listen to..

That is total BS! The type of music you listen to and such does not make one act in such ways! Idiots!

-Lord P. Shadowloo

Its the media..what does one really expect..and the so call know it alls..

If someone doesn't have problems already, "goth" isn't going to make them hurt themselves AND I infliced self harm LOOONNGG before I even knew what Goth meant or even was for that matter!!!! Sheesh people!!!!!!!!!

bahaha, this article is complete BS, if you want something to blame for all the troubles of todays youth, go take a look at the types of homes the kids come from. thats usually where it starts, its not the fucking goth culture to blame, grrr the people who wrote that article now piss me off, they had no fucking clue what they were talking about

*Shakes her head* Again lets blame goth lifestyle, the way we dress and the Music. Let's not blame the parents for not trying to understand their kids. Also let's blame goth for Columbine?????!!!!!!!! OMG that's BS....

Lol....quite humorous read.....all I have to say is: WTF Mate?

Well, that was clearly absurd... That is really ... really... idiotic.. @_@ God I wasted a good.. 4 minutes of my life ... I can guarantee you someone who basically hates and despises black wrote that.. #_#

That is crap! How rediculous can they possably be??

I find that is a bunch of BS and goth is just a way of thinking, thats what makes us different as they would say. thats why we are labeled as goth **frowns** I hate this bs they say about goths... pisses me off

Goth...a lifestyle for some. Like vampireism or satanism, of which I am, is a choice made, not forced upon you. I came here because i got invited,not forced, and so far I like it here. I guess this is leading up to the first example that came to mind, the fast food laws suits. You go in, you but hot coffee, you burn yourself, you sue, you win, altough I think a no sue laws has been passed since then. Point is, who forced them to go into that fas food place anyway. Poor example probably, but, it came to mind just the same.

sometimes i just wish the judgemental part of society never existed. it just causes a whole bunch of made up bs that yea makes difficulties.

well.... to start with i DO NOT consider myself goth..i dont wear haevy make up.. i listen to metal cause i like it and thats all, and im a wiccan witch that loves the colour pink... but apart from the stereo types... goth you are inside.. no matter what society labels you... thsi si utterly stupid saying that all goth ppl have a tendecy to self harm.... i self harmed myself have my father died abruptly... i self hamred myself cause im goth or cause of the grief that i couldnt cope?? as said before i dont feel gothic nor i try to be... but i hate it when poeple label someone.. i know the feeling... witch = evil... thus we shpuld try to accept one another more and thus stop catergorizing everyone!

there's always judgement in all aspects of life.

People make judgements everyday. "goth" or "goth people" are not the only ones subjected to this.

One day all groups will be able to accept all other groups, but then this would mean there wouldn't be groups anymore, right?

Also don't forget, 'goths' are one of the most judgemental groups there are. The general consensus is they hate anyone who shops at A&F, The Gap, who listen to mtv, whatever.

People NEED someone to blame to take responsibility to take the heat off their jobs they need someone or something to lay blame on and the gothic culture to them is the most feasible they don't understand OR accept this culture and its just blind ignorance. To blame the goth culture is the most PC thing to do right now! And it is a shame

.. i have nothing to say

How is this different then the "prep stereotype" hate I see in many profiles here?

My goal is not to be an ass - I've enjoyed my time here and think so far people are great - but rather to simply point out it works both ways.

We wear black, we must therefore cut ourselves and want to die! Of course it makes such sense! Why has this razor blade been all my life!

Oh please, the mundanes of this world don't understand us, so they go by whats reported, we hardly going to go round telling everyone how happy were are, its only the self harm they ever notice.

Vulash has the same idea, people here are just like the rest of the world.

Yes, I come to this site, I don't feel it's any betrayal to talk about 'goths' in this manner. I judge people, I'm not above it. No one truly is.

Ah just saw the last part of your post - yes same idea :)

If people finally stopped being judgemental we'd still have groups, just they'd be nothing more then a way of recognizing somewhat likeminded people and you'd see alot more "cross hanging out" amongst people as they realized that people from these groups have more in common then they realized.

well I'd like to imagine that the already is a crossing or a blending of groups. We see it in music and fashion, it happens with people a little as well.

The old fashioned ways of thinking are being threatened muwahahaha :P

I'd like to think I'm an example of that. I've always had friends from nearly every stereotype and never have trouble getting alogn with large groups of any particular stereotype either. I'd go so far as to say it's something I pride myself on - even if that isn't a good thing.

The problem with the world is...everyone has something they don't like...if everyone was the same...the world would be a boring place....at the same time...all the differences makes people NOT LIKE other people because they are different.Change starts with one person...if one person stood up for someone that was being picked on...messed with...others would see this and try to change themselves.

It a load of bs....i'd be more worried about the happy kid who in all actuality is tripping out on some new drug. >.>