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What makes vampirism different than an addiction? Please read and respond.

Psychological addictions are a dependency of the mind, and lead to psychological withdrawal symptoms. Addictions can theoretically form for any rewarding behavior, or as a habitual means to avoid undesired activity, but typically they only do so to a clinical level in individuals who have emotional, social, or psychological dysfunctions, taking the place of normal positive stimuli not otherwise attained.

While eating disorders, like other behavioral addictions, are usually considered primarily psychological disorders, they are sometimes treated as addictions, especially if they include elements of addictive behavior. Sufferers may experience withdrawal or withdrawal-like symptoms if they alter their diet suddenly. This suggests that some common food substances, especially chocolate, sugar and salt, may have the potential for addiction. In addition, frequent overeating can also be considered an addiction.

Kindest regards,

Olwen

well in my mind its not the sanme thing.. an addiction is someing you can live without. Blood or energy... is not somehtign I can live wihtout... I need it like I need air or water.. it snot somehting that I can do without for long

Do vampires suffer withdrawal if they don't feed on blood or energy, or are they just hungry. If someone eats because they are hungry, its not an addiction its survival.

It all depends. For some it maybe mental. For others there is a type of disease where the need to replenish certain aspects of their own blood through that of others. Then you have those that believe so whole heartedly in the things they believe that they create their own type of dependence upon it.

As you have stated Olwen it is not the act itself but the process behind the act that determines whether or not something classifies as an addiction.

It is not to question if there is a need. Sugar is a great example. It helps with digestion, makes food taste good, but in excess it causes many problems. I think there is an aspect of the Vampirism that can do the same.

I am not saying that vampires are all addicts.

Rather that if the focus becomes all consuming that normalcy for that person is no longer possible then they have crossed a line. All people have to deal with the potential of becoming addicted to things at some point or another. Sex addicts, drug addicts, food addicts, exercise addicts. Anything that alters a person’s sense of balance has this potential.

So I do think that it can become an addiction, but for most people it is not rather it is a choice.

A very good point in that it can become one. But I do not think that being on makes anyone an addict. I need energy or if I can get it I would rather have blood... but its not my main concern. Its no more of my main concern than getting food is for most people.

My understanding of the posed question was not about personal practises, but if we view vampirism differently than an addiction. I was trying to state that I do not view the act of vampirism as to be an addiction, however I do view it as having the potential to become one.

It seems that people are offended because of what they themselves do and think that the thread is calling them an addict. As you stated we all need food, is it an action for all of us – no.

That does not change the validity of the question posed.

Balance seems to be lacking, blood sugar drops… at what point does the need mutate to addiction? Does this phrasing come across as more pleasing?

*compares a vampire to a crack head...

0_o Meh...might be a addiction problems on both ends...

There are also those that love the rush of the overall blood or engergy taking exchange like those that are adrenalin junkies.

Actually you are wrong VampireFreakshow, there are many babies that are born addicted. It is a physical manifestation.

At some point with substance abuse using changes from enjoyment to psychological addiction then into physical addiction. It seems you are taking this question out of what it is, which is looking at actions and the physicality and psychology behind them.

I will state this again, while vampires all look to gain energy/blood- NOT all vampires are addicted to these.

Vampirism is not clinically viewed as a normal behavior. So if an individual was truly vampiric and needed the energy or blood their behaviors associated with the fulfilling of their needs would be viewed clinically as abnormal behavior and would lead it to being labeled as an addiction.

If anything, Vampirism included, could be labeled and accepted as a norm such as drinking water and breathing air, than it would not be an addiction, it would be a norm.

On that though, if vampirism was a norm it could still be labeled an addiction in some folks cases if they where unable to control their need such as in feeding or drinking in excessive amounts of energy or blood. Excessive being that which would be more than a normal vampire would need to live on. If that excessive behavior became uncontrollable by the individual vampire than they could be labeled addicted and could or should get help trying to curb the addiction so they could lead a normal vampiric life.

There’s my 2 bits.

Everyone here has a great viewpoint on this......addictions can be mental and physicial....like those addicted to crack, etc and even cigarettes . . .

Interesting, interesting, interesting! Gold stars to Orem! (Please forgive me if my memory is faulty in recalling the original poster's name.)

Here is something that I have not seen brought up yet;

There is a high oxygen content level in the blood. And oxygen...gets you high. Have even a little bit and you will feel a little different. And anything that gets you high...can get you addicted. Many addicts, be it crack or blood or heroin, will say that they "NEED" their vice in order to at least function.

For me, show me the individual who dies from not having blood, and I will recognize blood as a need for some people.

An interesting rebuttal to my own statement is this; yes, people have died from not getting their 'fix'. People die from the DT's. While the substance at that point becomes a need....the need was not originally there to start with. If you are a baby who is born addicted to crack, you are not magically born with the addiction, your mother has the addiction as well. That's how you get it as a baby.

It has to start somewhere, get it?

So to revise my previous statement; show me the individual who dies from not having blood, having never had blood, and having come from a lineage entirely clean of blood-drinking....and I will accept it as a physical need.

....

*grin*

" Habitual psychological and physiological dependence on a substance or practice beyond one's voluntary control."

"...to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."

Excerpts from a dictionary-definition of the word addiction. Would this not make breathing, eating, and sleeping an addiction as well? Whether vampirism, including it's presumed addictive actions, is brought about by a dare of ones self or a unpressured need, it still doesn't take away what may happen to them physically/mentally if they stop. Whats done is done. It has become a second form of breathing for them.

Which is true, Strigocia...but the only thing I'd have to say is...

There are rehab clinics.

People develop dire addictions, and then, with force of will, cure themselves of it.

It matters because the individual in question is not healthy. Obviously, or otherwise, they would not need an outside substance to keep them healthy anyway. I do not think that breathing is a good allegory, because breathing equals being healthy.

Hmmm....

I love arguing with myself. This is where I go 180 on myself.

Say needing other people's blood, or energy as the case may be, is the same as breathing. It would simply be an added function of an individual. Like puberty, it's not someting that develops until an individual is older. A person is not born with sexual urges; they develop. Thus, a person is not born with the need to feed, so to speak; it develops.

Sigh.

I would have to kidnap a self-proclaimed vamp and perform horrendous tests on them to come up with a satisfactory answer.

How did I misunderstand? Do you think I was replying to you? I was replying to the whole thread... Liebe :P

Arunima,

When someone go into a rehab clinic/group, even after treatment they consider themselves "Addicts." You are one for life, whether or not you fight it--you are never the same. The same being what you were or did when you were an addict.

To solidify what I was saying at the beginning of my rant, Strigocia, is that, unless our mothers were unscrupulous characters, we are not born with addictions to crack or heroin. We are, by necessity of being a carbon-based lifeform, born with the need to breathe and eat. This is not something that we decided to do. At some point, a crack addict decided to say "Hey, maybe crack isn't so bad", or "Hey, I'll just do heroin this once". It was a concious decision. Breathing is not a concious decision. Try to stop breathing. Drown yourself with air all around you. It won't work. Your instinct is stronger than you.

Apparently we posted about the same time... *grin*

You have a good point. The point I was making is that a person who would die from the DT's if they didn't have a drink, can be rehabilitated. Even though they have the urge to drink, they would no longer die if they didn't have one. It's need versus want.

There are many cases of people who tried to stop breathing, and succeeded. The main point I was getting at is a persons survivability after doing something that seems as natural as breathing air. A friend of mine told me a story about her father. He was an alcoholic. As per usual, he had the tell-tale medical problems that arise with this. She told me that her father's doctor instructed him to keep drinking because his body would shut down instantly if he stopped. Normally our body does no appriciate certain substances we might put in our bodies. In the case of alcohol, we feel that when we wake up in the moring. This mans addicition has now become his life--his oxygen--and the only thing keeping him alive. I am saying that vampirism isn't an addiction, I am only stating that it is not a fixable addiction. Like you say, for most, and the actions of an addiction can be cured, but the addiction itself will never be cured.

Being the nitpicky person that I am, I have to point this out;

"...vampirism is not an addiction..."

"...vampirism is not a fixable addiction..."

Please let me know if I paraphrased incorrectly, but this seems to me to be a contradiction. The second phrase indicates that vampirism IS an addiction, just not a fixable one. The first one says it's not an addiction at all.

So, is vampirism different from addiction? So far, the consensus is....no. You have to know the taste of blood to need the blood. Is this right?

*Edit for my previous post, for ease of reading*

I am not saying that vampirism is not an addiction, I am only stating that it is not a fixable addiction. Like you say, for most, the actions of an addiction can be cured, but the addiction itself will never be cured.

FreakShow, we are discussing addiction, and addiction encompasses many things, not just blood, if blood is merely an addiction and not a want. That's what we're trying to discover. From observing other addictions, like crack and heroin and alcohol, we can see if there are similar attributes to the habitual intake of blood or energy.

You have me half right. LOL

I believe, on some level, that a person who drinks blood (vamprisim) is addicted to said blood. If you take the definitions of addiction, you can say as much for air, these definitions being scientific and medical in nature. Yes, addctions can be "cured," but we only cure the actions of said addition, leaving a lingering urge that is now this persons life. Someone can smack their own hand, 'til the moment they die, to force themselves not pick up a crack pipe again. Even if this is the case, they still have the thought of crack, some place in their mind, that would cause them to regulate themselves like this. The cure comes only after a conscious choice.

The debate of breathing, sleeping, and eating being an addiction can go either way. Curing these may seem idiotic, but for some they make that conscious choice. This does not make these necessary actions any less important if they succeed in stopping. The same can be said for vampirism. For some, this may be as important as breathing, disolving any thought in a persons mind of it being an addiction.

Srigocia, do you realize you're about the only one who has kept an argument with me going in the Forums? *grin*

Your argument works if you consider an addiction encompassing both what a person needs to live and anything a person doesn't need to live. A person needs to eat, breathe, yes, even sleep, to live. This is inherited as an attribute of being human. The need to drink blood, smoke crack, shoot up heroin, are all things that, barring an addicted mother, you are not born with. These are not things you need at the very base to live. You or your mother have to start it and keep at it in order for it to become a physical need.

Keep a person away from blood their entire lives, and will they ever need it to live?

Like you say, a mother would have to be a crack addictic all through her pregnancy for a child to be born with that addiction. This happens.

The concept that quiting heroin or crack will not bring you to your death can be seen as invalid. They do put addictics in recovery on supportive medications to keep this from happen. It also depends on how you feel the death comes about. A suicide is still the death of a person. The mind controls our functions, even the function of survival.

Yes, keep them away from blood, but watch out when they--uncoached--are drawn to the blood. What made that happen? ;)

So, an honest person, uncoached like I said, somehow was coerced by a taste that they have never experienced?

Looks like real life has kept me from a good discussion..

VampireFreakshow what point did I miss? How on earth do you expect anyone to have any idea as to what your point is if you post one-liners? Sorry this thread is not about my lacking abilities as a mind reader if you want good discussion, you’ll have to clarify.

Strigocia you bring up very valid point on psychological addition. What about the physical addiction? In once again using drug addicts as an example there are people who’s chemical imbalance becomes so great that they in fact need the drug to function at a normal level. Look at Methadone clinics, the people going there are not getting high, rather they are taking a dose that allows them to function in the world similar to how some of us need coffee to be “human”. In the 30 years that methadone clinics have been in standard use within the US, they have found some addicts are never able to lower the dose to stopping because their bodies just will not allow it. It could be possible for this to occur, perhaps extreme forms of anaemia.. Or perhaps it is the endorphins from the adrenaline of cutting and bleeding someone else that causes the physical addiction- I don’t know that they’ve done studies on vampires and what chemical responses they have but I am sure they are probably similar to adrenaline junkies so maybe that is where the physical addiction occurs?

As for the psychological aspects that is a different form of addiction and the one that I think people are more likely to be able to “cure” but maintain the idea of “once an addict always an addict”. Before the body creates the physical form of addiction typically there is a psychological addiction that occurs and compels the person to excess.. So in that light, say someone whose body adapts let’s say to the energies of others could in fact go through withdrawals from the energy.. it’s easy to goto a public place and draw energy if that is what you believe.. but the repeated action of going and absorbing energy can create triggers for the person that then create the symptoms of withdrawal. There is no physical at this point, but the mind is starting to burn those neuropathways that will potentially lead to a physical addiction..

Great discussion ladies!

Do not post in ANY forum threads if you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion. First your posts will be deleted, then if you continue you will face suspension.

That being said, VampireFreakShow, you are no longer on my radar as someone that has anything important to say. How you enjoyed your stay here, in my attention... you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here.

I think I did mention something about addicts needing assistance when they quit, due to the physical side effects.

Indeed you did, but not that sometimes they never fully recover from those physical effects... Strigocia love your style ;)

To me , one you can with help walk away from.The other is for life...Or death.

I wasn't going to post, but I liked the argument, which I'm going to entirely disregard. lol

So...

Addiction- craving desire, is born from a psychological construct of perceived need, from experience of physical pleasure.

To feed, is to please the self, bringing fulfillment of that desire.

The question then becomes one of whether we are born with the need for blood, energy. And so, have a set of psychological waypoints to connect, in order to acheive the required 'secret combination'- to awakening a mind into the desired one of any number of potentialities for its being.

Who can say if the unconcious manifests in many ways we don't understand, aiming to set those points, with whichever path it can find to achieve it. The energy bursting through such a child, could create many unpredictable effects, if such a thing were real, of course.

so much meat so much candy , where do i begin lol

since this is about addiction , a route to understanding the matter may be to look at the dynamics of said phenomenon of addiction

one route is the theraputic model of addiction didentification,diagnosis, and theraputics

in whatever ways they may differ , all models of addiction theraputics have one thing in common that addiction is a spiritual,emotional and mental condition way before it even manifests in the physical as a pattern, habit(eating,sex, power, money, fame, approval,substance, activity)

a void that is continually being filled by thingsplaces, people activities and so on

a sustaining of personality so to speak with external quantities

as to the matter of certain things being related to energy and certain not, all consumption, whether, physical, psychological emotional, mental perceptual, sensorial or spiritual is inherently an energy equation

pleasure is an energy equation

addiction is perhaps an attempt to sustain being on pleasure ,power,approval

to achieve a sense of well being through the abuse of instinct

in my experience , all addiction have the rigging of instinctual machines , (of punishment reward, fera and gratification) to the ego or mind structure, in common

every abusable thing is in essence a material whether physical or otherwise, that instinct is programmed to be drawn to for survival, as part of the minds auto programs

it all eventually boils down to emotion and their juggling within the mind structure

as emotion is currency within the mind structure

also the matter of addictive substance , that is not so much the matter of consequence i have found as
said addictive substance + individual does not always equal to the phenomenon of addiction

there is a zen concept that likens addiction to an empty flame that feeds and does not give warmth

this can be used as a psychological model to understand certain aspects of addiction

also the diagnostic model defines addiction as having three distinct characterstics

the triad of addiction so to speak

mental obsession/physical allergy/spiritual bankrupcy

mental obsession refers to the emptiness within calling for food , for easy quiet rather than actual examination and resolution what may be loosely reffered to as issues

physical allergy refers to the fact that once the process of obsession/compulsion has been fed , it begins a cycle , a machine that requires continous feeding after the point of initial feeding of obsession there is "no choice", choice is about before , and not after
this is a much misunderstood aspect of addiction dynamics , that one can start and stop anytime, excessive importance being given to the act rather that the systems and conditions in mind and consciousness that inform and support the action and subsequent dynamic

spiritual bankrupcy refers to the choices that are made counter to the individuals existant moral/spiritual/integral structure
that support the obsession rather than the individuals core sense of self and being, and how over time the mental processes, and characterestics that support the triad are supported and given food/energy rather than the core being/health/self


it is not so much about drinking blood or consuming prana, or drug,sex,food,powermoney or what have you as whether this triad of

mental obsession/physical allergy/spiritual bankrupcy

are inherent in any pattern, machine, structure, schema that determine whether it is addiction or not

there is a saying in hindi that goes loosely translated ofcourse

"if the high was in the alchohol, the bottle would dance"

i have always found it very amusing
and poignant with meaning

the mind perhaps is the

addict/fix/ addiction



choice/pattern/mind

and

choice/awareness/freedom

are perhaps triads of resolution here

An addiction is when someone wants something so bad that they need it. The things we crave we need so bad that we want them. An addiction keeps someone happy. Blood and energy keep us alive.

Pleasent Nightmares, Rose (Blade)

Yes thank you Shine, that is the missing part;

Triads again, Body mind spirit

It is so simple in its complexity.

True explainable medical documentation of various illnesses, whether acquired, or inherited often can blur the line between addiction, and true sustainance.

It's been shown that the crippling factor of addiction is the mind. To cure an addiction or to nurse an addiction -- it's mental. I've seen first hand as a friend who did cocaine for about four months straight just stopped ad walked away! I also had a friend who used to dress in all black suddenly show up in a Polo shirt and denounce the day she became a H.I.M groupie. *shrug*'

To at least answer within the real of conversation, yes, so many factors parallel for what makes an addict an addict that it's difficult to argue otherwise.

Hmm, well I personally think that a psychological addiction/condition affects the body to a great degree.

So a great desire at some level could become a need characterized by withdrawl symptoms if the person believes it. The mind is quite powerful, as the body effects the mind (for basic needs [food, sleep, etc.] do effect thought processes, perception, etc.)

So if a person is very infatuated or obsessed with the vampire lifestyle, then perhaps they could decieve their body into believing it needs blood to survive or to function fully. Just what i think ; )

one would think that all that we have said is true, i belive that we all tell that truth even if only in asepct's. I belive it to be the only way that we may surive.

My personal belief is that, yes, it is an addiction. I would also go as far as saying it is a physical dependancy. I would like to use a metaphor other than a drug addict though to explain my point.

You see, for me at least, vampirism starts as a psychological addiction, the want, desire, and need to draw upon someone elses lifeblood or energies. This is very much akin to a serial killer's way of thinking. It seems to me it is all a control or power issue. As you draw on someones blood or energy, you hold in your hands the control of how much you will draw from them. To some, it may cause a sense of euphoria, a release of adrenaline and other chemicals in the brain. This is much the same as a serial killer when he commits an act of murder. Eventually (typically very quickly) the "rush" is lessened from the amount you started with, requiring a larger drawing of blood or energy. This leads to an escalating physical dependancy where the person requires a larger and larger euphoric rush lest they feel drained or unable to function normally. This can also be an addiction for the victim, by the way...

But that's just my two cents... Take it for what it's worth...

Honestly, I think this is a good question. Perhaps vampirism truely is a disease. And if it is, who can say that it's not? Anyone whop claims that they need it could be like and alcoholic who cannot go too long without alcohol before they die for the simple fact that their liver cannot take the change.

What if vampires are the same?

Honestly, i'm not sure. and it is a very good question and a subject that has been debated for centuries. i dont know how i feel on the subject quite yet. so i wont bs like i do.

In a sense anything can be considered an addiction. As many have pointed out, this site in itself is an addicition.

Yet, the Condition, as it were, those afflicted, are those who are both addicted to the energy which we have such an inadaqute means to supply our own bodies and subtle bodies, while we are not addicted and wish only to live in a normal life.

As we hunger for life energy of the world around us. Having to depend upon the world and others to supply, we, in a sense, feel weak that our own bodies can not supply itself like everyone else.

In this, there is resentment. No matter what, if someone really looks deep down, they will find this resentment.

Yet, like a drug, when gained in large amounts, when we can not only feed ourselfs but store the energy we do gain within, we are addicted to the high that it gives us, unable to break away from that which in some sense, now controls us.

As I obviously broke off from my original thoughts. I must stray back to it.

All in all, The condition isn't an addiction. An addicition can be stopped if people have the will to stop. Yet, us, we have the will, most do, but the body cannot stop what it needs.

Think of it like this, can you stop eating, can you give up breathing?

Addiction is something you can stop and live on with a normal life, an afflicition is something that hounds us until we pass on.

- Sin

Yes, I see vampirism as an addiction. Of course, I see many other things as addictions that are normally not considered to be so. Life is an addiction, is it not? For most people, anyway. I've seen addictions to love, to food, to sex, to just about anything the world has to offer. I could live without the vampiric lifestyle: I just REALLY don't want to. It would hardly be a life. But isn't that the argument all addicts use?

i think its because vamps need blood addicts dont need drugs they just think they do

So, vampirism is an addiction, then? We all seem to be saying "When a substance becomes a need, it is an addiction", am I correct?

Have we found our answer to the original question? *grin*

It all depends on the person. A true vampire can not live without blood, while a person who just likes the taste of blood could just be addicted to the taste.

Well in my opinon it is not an addiction yet how the person chooses to conduct their way of life as a Vampire. As to needing the blood or wanting it, to me there is a difference as to having an addiction and just wanting it. just my opinon.

There is a big differences between the need for it to survive and the need for it for desire.

One can attribute this as Lust, a Lust for something they so badly want. Most people feel that lust is that of carnal desire, while in fact its more of the driving desire for that which they find addictive.

While this is also a mix of GLuttony, where one indulges way to much in one simple aspect.

- Sin

"There is a big differences between the need for it to survive and the need for it for desire."

So therin lies the question.."Do you NEED it to SURVIVE?"

Then again..any addiction can kill you just as quickly as a freight train if you let it consume you...which kind of takes you back to self control and pyschology. How much of vampirism is physical need and how much is psychological need?

PS..No disrespect intended..just trying to understand :)

mistressmoonlight, I was going to make the same note.

an adddition is the need of a something you want to have, it is not needed for your survival, or addicts all over the world would drop like flies.

if it is a need then it is something you can't live without food water things of that nature then it isn't addiction. that i s survival.

putting the myth and legends aside. is there a true survivalistic need for blood or is it more of a want?
no disrespect intended.

Well it can become an addiction if you over-indulge. Like you can become "addicted" to chocolate, if you are feeding because you like the way it makes you feel and you are being glutenious then yes if can become an addiction....

VampireFreakshow - there is nothing physical that I feel could create an addiction to blood but I'm not schooled in mystic thought and much of the argument laid down for modern vampires is based on a metaphysical energy feeding and therefore beyond any arguable area.

However, there is ample evidence that a psychological addiction could be formed with vampirism (be it metaphysical or fetish) since the only requirement for a psychological addiction is that it can be 'overdone' or become so compulsive as to interfere with regular life. Any activity (including internet use, or porn or sex or voyeurism or television or video games) could become an addiction to the point that it interferes with normal life and is continued even after it begins to adversely affect you life/job/relationships.

I been following this thread. I have found it very interesting.
But, I think the point has been made. if it isn't for survival it is an addiction.

Yeah, now all we are doing is beating a dead horse.

- Sin