Persecution vs Indifference
While some Alternative beliefs were once hardly persecuted this is becoming rarer, and rarer. The more common reaction to alternative beliefs is indifference. People are just not astonished by alternative beliefs, they have come to except them. Thou I agree there are still ill tempered groups that crusade against such beliefs.
So my question is.
With this in mind. Why are those who follow alternative beliefs always so defensive, and edgy about their beliefs, and there role in society?
When will those with alternative beliefs correct the masses to disarm the stereotypes?
Excerpt from Holysmoke.org/tolerate.htm
"If someone's religion "does not break your bones or pick your pocket," you are ethically and morally obligated to LEAVE THEM ALONE and thus tolerate them. It costs you nothing to do so, and it is wrong to do otherwise."
It is not uncommon to see those with alternative beliefs accuse those with other beliefs, or no beliefs of being intolerant. While there is intolerance. There is seldom the degree of intolerance as some alternative believers would have people believe.
I suspect that a number of claimed believers in alternative beliefs, are in it for the wrong reason. Like they only want to incite reactions in those friends, family, and peers.
Here's why believers should accept indifference over persecution.
Excerpt from Holysmoke article, I wanted to include in the previous post.
Reasons for intolerance:
"SPIRITUAL COMPETITION. The worse offenders against religious tolerance are members and leaders of competing religions. This is a shame, as those who are religious bigots have failed to understand the fact that to be accepted themselves, they must accept others. There are many reasons why people belong to the religions they do: the chief one being geography and familial tradition. If they are happy with their religion, and if they harm no one, there is no reason to object to their choice of spirituality."
Being edgy about who I am is a part of it.. I am not defensive about how I choose to look or act, but the edge is there.
I guess having to deals with so many stupid comments and such dealing with how they look is why people are edgy. They sort of expect that it may happen every time they go out in public.
If you expect a strange look every time you go out in public, you might have an edge on you as well.
Damn, I took it all about being about looks.
Those with beliefs that may not be known by all or even accepted with much explanation are most likely edgy due to misunderstandings..
Christianity, Buddhism, and all major religions aren't even common knowledge taught, you have to go research it, unless you've been raised in a family of such belief.
Trying to tell somebody about how aliens created humanity and that your God is Marduk and he visits everytime his planet aligns with earth would be something you can't really explain to just anyone.. And, you see why I don't say anything.
That's just me; I'm edgy about it because I realize how ridiculous it sounds. I don't really care if anyone else believes, it's my belief.
As for others, I'm guessing they usually expect ridicule or ignorance..
Then there are the others that take a certain vanity in being of a discrete religion or belief... There are a lot of stuck up types that would love to believe their beliefs make them better than everything else, thus shun them.
I do not know. I have always thought alternative beliefs were elitist. I guess it's for a good reason. For some it is a growing-up phase. I guess it is just the stigma attached to some alternative beliefs. People fear what they do not understand. Fear is a universal response. We just have to stand up for something. Otherwise life would be utterly empty and without substance.
Besides, I do not really care what the masses think. I definitely do not "pretty things up" for people. You just have to take the good with the bad. I would rather stereotypes remain as they are. Society just needs to grow itself around that.
But what about educating society? If one seeks to be accepted isn't a certain amount of educating reasonable? What if people aren't fearing, but just jaded, and indifferent. To many take such lack of reaction to their beliefs as offensive.
There is a fine line between educating and justifying oneself. I see no reason to justify myself. Everything - at least the majority of the information - is out there. Be it online or otherwise. If an individual is genuinely curious and wishes to learn, there is always a respectful way to ask. Ask and ye shall be given. Some people just want an excuse to start trouble. So, I do not really care much.
I agree with Lordess on this.
Those with the discrete sets of beliefs collected their information and learned to know what they know. They don't want to just teach everything that they've studied -sometimes years- to learn.
It's not even all about that, it's the fact that most people don't want to learn beyond what they have in their heads as set fact.
It's stunning how many people I've actually tried to get to read some of my books that will open your mind, just to have them deny. Some people don't want to learn and when we actually find those that do, it's like coming across buried treasure.
But can't you see that not all who don't care to learn are hostile to the belief? Isn't it too extreme to expect people to subscribe to, or make allowances for every belief? People who avow themselves as open minded, and declare "Anyt5hing is possible." Need to eventually except that there are so many contradictions in such thinking if one doesn't refrain from believing everything. So one persons disbelief may be a product of the teaching from another belief. Which means in their opinion, by their indoctrination, your belief is either unimportant, or worse detrimental to their belief.
So allow me to update the question.
Would you prefer Indifference from other Non-Believers, and Believers from other beliefs, or Persecution?
The thing about alternative beliefs is that they do not claim to be the "one right way". Like I said, I could not care less what other's mindsets are to a particular alternative belief, though there is a saying, "The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." I would prefer indifference.
In religious cases indifference is always better than persecution.Look at the story of Mary,Queen of Scots and Elizabeth I.Real life example
It depends where you are. It's easy to say that people are not that shocked that there are alternate beliefs besides Catholicism if you live in country like America, but I live in a country where anything that is not Catholic is considered the devil, and if you don't live the standard conformist life forbidden, you're either living in sin, or you're an abnormal being. Thus I almost never say that I'm Agnostic and like to read about other religions. It depends on the situation and with who I am. With my family and at work it's completely taboo. With friends I'm open, but whenever I meet someone new, I don't always look friendly simply because I don't agree with their beliefs and I say it bluntly. They look at me shocked and they frown too. Location and culture effect people too.
I am with you DNG, There are serious issues presented to those with Alt beliefs in other countries. This is why I address the issue. I want those here in the states to see how goos we have it (in a manner) compared to foreign religious freedom. Too many believe religious freedom, means acceptance, and subscription.
Yeah and where I am it's not even the worst. At least I'm in Europe, in other parts of the world, you really taste persecution.
Most of the persecution I hear off from people is contrived. It is also often clearly obvious that the persons grasp of the doctrines is infantile at best.
For Some, the believe of others, can harm the Ego of Some. Everything come to EGO. Most of those "some", can not tolerate that another person is believing something that is not their believe, and then, the rumors and talk start, and at the end, persecution is the final chapter. Psychologically speaking, if every human mind their own business, we will be living in a pure world. but, that is not the case and never be because the Ego of some.
Mostly, one is met with indifference or disbelief. This can only be overcome by mounting Logic and fact.
Why?
I will answer that with a Question. Is it better to have a fear of the unknown or continue on a Path of self destruction?
I have to agree. There is just so much unnecessary pain caused. I feel that not everyone who claim alternative belief enjoy the benefits of it. There are always three sides to a story. Your perception, my perception and their perception. Life is not a popularity contest, yet there are many who treat it as such. It may sound "cool", but for some like myself, it is just a way of life. I really do not mind being picked out for being different. There is not much shame left, to be honest. I would still prefer indifference over persecution. Persecution is just too violent for me.
Yet persecution is not always violent. Like when a mother faces losing her daughter in a divorce because she is Wicca. It is that ignorance that needs to be confronted by Wicca proponents.. If that is Wicca seeks to become more mainstream.
Tell me about it! Where I live you could also lose your job.
Not as serious as losing ones job but still noteworthy. A recent case in New Jersey.
http://www.nj.com/cumberland/index.ssf/2014/04/new_jersey_woman_files_lawsuit_over_atheist_license_plate.html
It seems Wicca is not being respected due to a lack of proof and ignorance on the part of the Public.
What is needed is a demonstration, this reminded me of a Popular Film where a tall man dressed all in black said...
"I find your lack of faith in the force disturbing commander"
The man in black then ~Psi~ throttled him.
It is inevitable that you're going to find someone who doesn't agree with your belief. The most beautiful thing about religious freedom is also the most dangerous thing. It's up to you to do the spiritually mature thing, and show respect, and tolerance, even if you're faced with persecution.
While we can ignore, and counter some aspects of persecution. We must indeed stand up to anything that would harm, or steal from us. Debate for example is not persecution. If one is offended by a persons reasons why they are not compelled by your beliefs, then perhaps you are placing a sad amount of priority on that belief. Fundamentalist tend to lead the charge into persecuting anyone not of their beliefs. Yet I seriously think that if people ignored these wack jobs, that they would tire and retire from crusading. They literally fuel themselves off the retort, and counter protest. It is kind of like "What if you held a bon fire.. with no wood?"
Mmm...reminds me of an interview with Larry Ellison on CNN.
Rather amusing discussion between him and Charlie Rose, they were discussing the targetting of specific groups using technology.
Larry was very clear, America was built on the premise that people are free to believe in what they wish to without fear of persecution or targetting. They do, they are, Wicca is being targetted as are other alternative beliefs.
It seems our governments have conveniently forgotten that part of the constitution.
Over to you Larry, you said "For me, that would be a step too far"
Over to you Charlie Rose, or are their Paths your Master forbid you to tread?
It is high time the conventional faiths answered for their crimes.
An example of how certain organized crime rings use the cry of "we're being persecuted to defend fraud.
from the following source.http://holysmoke.org/keene.htm
"To make my renunciation of mediumship complete, I knew there were other things I yet had to do. Seeking out a Masonic friend, I poured forth to him the whole story. At my request he went with me to the authorities. I turned myself in to the Internal Revenue Service for evasion of income tax. (I eventually paid all back taxes in full.) I also visited the FBI, the county sheriffs office, and the state attorney-general. To all these I made full confession of my years of fraud.
"No police investigation of any medium was launched as a result of my action nor, to my knowledge, did the Internal Revenue Service look into the matter of mediumistic bookkeeping. One reason for official reluctance to do anything may be an exaggerated concept of religious liberty. Apparently the last thing a public official in this country wants is for some sect like the spiritualists to scream bloody murder about religious persecution. At any rate, whatever the reason, the mediums continue unmolested.
"As a matter of fact, my former partner is doing better than ever[....]"
© M. Lamar Keene, the world's greatest spirit medium. Quoted from pg. 153, The Psychic Mafia, 1997, Prometheus Books 1-57392-161-0.
Depends on what is being persecuted as to why they react so defensively. LGBT seem to be defensive because they're legitimately threatened in more than a handful of nations around the world - simply being who they are can be a death sentence - literally. There's also the stereotypes and stigma that are associated with being gay, bisexual or a transvestite. They also want equal marriage rights, so it's no wonder why they feel strongly - they want to be bound by law to the person they love.
With religion... eh.