Modern science has proven the notion of Sangs is complete non-sense with no scientific base.
Sangs are disturbed individuals to me monitored and if necessary taken into custody for their crazy beliefs, that have no factual basis.
Yet, many religions have no factual basis, indeed much that was once accepted has now been proven untrue.
Should mainstream religions be given greater credence than fringe beliefs?
If fringe beliefs have more scientific value should their followers be given greater credence than traditional beliefs ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-27282832
science and religion really have never been able to come to the same conclusion so why would it matter, if it is a religion then a faith based platform would be all that matters, now history on another hand has a connection with both
@Existentialism ... you are absolutely correct.
Additionally, as vampire experts Dr. Paul Barber and Dr. Bruce McClelland have both concluded, the notion of Vampires as blood drinkers, itself, is entire erroneous. Dr. McCllelland's research into Slavic folklore has definitively revealed that this reported "vampiric" trait did not exhibit prior to the the beginning of the 18th Century CE... and Dr. Barber's forensic pathology research has additionally revealed that the whole idea of vampires as blood drinking at that time was the result of wild-eyed superstitious hysteria upon digging up corpses that appeared to be filled with blood... when, in fact, what the corpses were filled with were the body's own liquified organs that is a nature part of the decomposition process.
The additional fact is that there is not a single Slavic account of a single alleged "victim" claiming to have had his/her blood sucked by a vampire. No... not one. In all cases, the victims came down with some unknown disease or ailment that they blamed on an unseen or dreamed-of "vampire," they identified as someone who had recently died. That's it!
The only cases found in Slavic lore where vampires were actually witnessed "in the flesh" and actually had interaction with Slavic people... were the many accounts of women claiming to have been seduced by and had sex with a "vampire" for such extended periods of time that the women appeared "exhausted and emaciated" as a result. And it was this appearance that had people mistakenly thinking these women were suffering from "Consumption" (pneumonia).
Thus... the actual historical evidences for the Slavic Vampire were, as was extantly reported throughout all Slavic lands from Central Europe to Western Russia, of a "highly libidinous" being whose "insatiable sexuality" resulted in days and nights of extended lovemaking with very willing female partners often resulting in pregnancies.
The Slavic Vampire was, therefore, not at all thirsty for blood or violence... but, instead, "thirsty" for (to put it bluntly yet accurately) deeply romantic multiorgasmic sex to degrees impossible for normal Human males. And that deeply romantic and seductive nature found still today in our Western vampire fictions is actually the only remaining aspect of the Vampire based on historical fact!
All else is... indeed... nonsense.
Correction: Consumption = Tuberculosis (not pneumonia)
Vampirism is nonsense in the same way that any belief is nonsense. It's not for everyone and it's not the lifestyle everyone chooses.
Being a fringe belief, lots of people are going to ridicule and say that those people should be committed. In reality I think they say those things to feel better about themselves.
Live and let live- if people want to believe something applies for themselves, then so be it. I have as much right to ridicule someone's belief that they are a sang vampire as I do ridiculing someone's belief that abortion is moral/ immoral.
I find it interesting you would come to a place about vampirism to argue the merits of belief/ non belief. It's like going to a Christian forum to tell them that their belief in God is nonsense.
of course it's nonsense..it's like saying scientology is a real religion...science has long since killed god, and religion is just mythology..
Would you believe if I told you falling back into a vampiric persona sorted out the mess in my head? I was a really troubled youngster back then. I never felt like I belonged anywhere. Vampirism altered the path of my life. To me, vampirism is just a state of mind. It made me feel whole. Of course feeling dead inside urged me onto this path. I may not be a predator as what normal people would think. I find it empowering.
Psi vampires and sang vampires are merely labels. Not all followers of a particular religion adhere to all the rules preached in that religion. Likewise, I may not follow all there is in vampirism.
I do not find it to be nonsense. I quite enjoy it.
As far as credibility goes, I believe that it does not matter whether it's mainstream or fringe. The number of followers could raise or lower the credibility of a particular religion. Usually, it is the people who tend to corrupt or use a specific religion as a guise for something else. Although I am very much a fan of vampirism, I do belong to a mainstream religion. It is extremely difficult and almost impossible to be a staunch believer. At the end of the day, it is about what works for you.
As I have found here, there are some who are simply Lifestylers, or glorified role players. A fringe faction of goth in a way. But what stands out as nonsense are the ones that claim to have extraordinary abilities, or attributes that separate them from humankind. As if anyone is going to believe them without proof (how they bitch when asked for substantiating evidence). I see nothing disturbing about Lifestylers myself. Then there are the "Psychic Vamps" If they get a placebo effect from what they believe to be absorbing energy from others it is harmless. However I see red flags with Sangs. Sure it is fringe, part of the intrigue is being fringe, or thinking oneself to be fringe. Sadly once a thing gets rolling it goes mainstream, and becomes subject to becoming fad.
That is the great thing about about science, as stated in the great series "Cosmos" it does not matter if you believe in it or not.
The truth is the truth,
As on the hilarious series just this week "Have I got News for You" it seems the Sangs were right.
To quote Andy Hamilton..."The danger is rich old people will now prey upon the young to extend their lives... since they increased their student loans and food prices...erm...why not?"
Upir, bows to your historical knowlege.
But your knowledge seems to ignore the obvious.
Much of which has been deliberately destroyed in fires in Austria.
And indeed in other cities like London.
You only point to the surviving evidence "History is written by the winning parties"
Why would the Vampires leave anything for you to dig up?
Apart from the lies? We are way more clever than that or indeed you.
@Existentialism... not sure what you're trying to say, and it's hardly obvious... at least, not to me.
The many Westernized "vampire" accounts and the vampire fictions that grew out of them are what have been written by the "winning parties" to throw the world off the scent. And in this they have wildly succeeded. It's the real history, the hidden history, that I have been investigating and... to a certain extent... revealing.
Some of the earliest evidence of Ritual Vampirism comes from Tartaria in Transylvania and stems to the fifth millennium BC. Remains of a human body were found buried in a fire pit along with clay tablets upon which were inscribed the names of the ’Sumerian’ god Enki and the ranking number of Father Anu. The language was subsequently termed ’proto-Sumerian’ and represented some of the earliest written artifacts yet to be found.
The descendants of these early vampires were the Sacred Ubaid Race who, one millennium later, settled Mesopotamia and founded the Anunnaki religion of the Sumerians in 3500 BC. Their Transylvanian ancestors were the Anunnaki Gods themselves.
Various suggestions have been proposed in an attempt to explain the origin and meaning of the word vampire. One recent suggestion was that it was applied to a group of ’Watchers’ (Seers - Derkesthai: Dragons) who had occupied a settlement near "lake Van", in Urartu - Armenia. The original location - Greater Scythia - is faultless, the association is without error but the etymology is unresearched and the philology is completely absent.
Although that author’s suggested identification between Watchers and Vampires is absolutely correct, the word vampire does not in any sense relate to their former geographical location or origin but, as we shall see, rather to the vampires’ social and spiritual identity and status within a given cultural framework, which in this instance was Scythian, overlaid on Celtic.
In the journals of the 17th century cleric, the Abbé Calmet, the word vampire is transliterated into its most common, and its earlier, central European form which is spelt either oupire or oupere. These spellings are common in literature of Calmet’s time and represent the original form of the word vampire.
When the word migrated into Latin from Anatolian the u became a v because, as we will recall, there is no u character represented in the Latin alphabet. If there had been, then the Latinized western European construction of the word would have been uampire. By now bells should be ringing in the readers’ heads as they remember hearing about wampires somewhere or another, perhaps in a humorous context.
The Romans didn’t have a w and this letter appeared in clerical Latin during the medieval period as v v, as presented in the ridiculous phrase mortvvs svm. The vv being used then as a long vowel sound to differentiate between u and v sounds which were both represented by the Latin v.
So to recap, let’s have a look at the linguistic migration so far: oupere - oupire - owpire - ovpire. At this point we must remember that the word migrated from one language into another at a time when the most commonly used form of transmission was oral. This was bound to lead to confusion when the word was written down for the first time, as it has in numerous other instances.
By now we should be asking "If the word vampire was originally spelt oupire, where on earth did the ’m’ come from?" All the author can say is thank heavens for the anomalous ’m’ because it is this component that really confirms the origin and meaning of the word vampire, according to currently accepted scholarship.
Philologists would agree that the word vampire, as oupere, in its present form originated from the Turkish word uber, which means ’witch’. This would appear to present even more problems because in addition to an anomalous ’m’, we now also have a ’b’ to explain away! Nevertheless the author promises you that tenacity and perseverance will bring its own rewards, so be patient and do try and keep up.
Leaving the ’m’ aside for a moment, there would seem to be a serious linguistic problem in that oupere is spelt with a ’p’ and uber is spelt with a ’b’, which the reader might suspect would undermine the connection between both words. Especially as vampire or oupere is European and uber is Turkish and thus from a separate language group. However, this is not so.
As the Turkic-Uralic language is very different from Indo-European, it would appear that the word vampire in its original form is not Indo-European, but an Asiatic word that has changed in spelling and pronunciation during the passage of time and its migration northward.
It might then appear that the central Asian word for a witch - uber - would mean something entirely different to the European meaning of the word ’witch’ and would therefore bring with it an entirely different set of cultural and mythic associations. However, what the reader might not realize is that modern Turkey and its language is, like any other, an evolutionary compilation of historical, linguistic and cultural influences.
Prior to being named Turkey, Asia Minor or Anatolia was the centre of the eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium. At the heart of Asia Minor, contemporary with Rome but originating from an earlier period still, was the vast region of Galatia at the heart of which was a region occupied in the Persian era by the Cimmerians of Scythia, at a time when Galilee, Gilead and Gaulatinis in northern Israel were Scythian territories named after their language.
As Galatia spread northwards it bordered upon Phrygia and Troy and reached out further still to become Galati as it crossed the Bosphorus and encompassed Transylvania. On its westward marches Galati assimilated both Bulgaria and Gaul.
In consequence of this, a massive proportion of what is now called Turkey was in fact, along with most of Europe, a Gaelic or properly a Goidelic speaking, Scythian/Celtic civilization, comprising of independent tribal groups who spoke a number of Gaelic dialects, amongst which and most notably are what we now know as the so called ’P’ and ’Q’ or ’K’ Goidelic language variants.
The P and Q variants in Brythonic-Cymric (Welsh) and Goidelic-Scotic (Irish Scots), as an example, mean that the word ’son’ will be spelt map in Cymric and mac in Scotic. Furthermore there is a sub variant in this language group where ’P’ and ’B’ sounds also become interchangeable, as in the Welsh pen as in the mountain - Penllithrig’y’wrach - meaning "the slippery hill of the witch" in Snowdonia, and the Scots ben as in Ben Nevis in Scotland - both of which mean ’head’ or ’peak’. The Cymric language was originally Cimmerian or northern Scythian, whilst Scotic is a southern Scythian dialect.
The Galatian word uber is from the Scythian goidelic group whilst in Russia and Poland, which was influenced by the Cimmerian or Brythonic group, the same word for vampire is spelt upyr and upior respectively. There have been numerous Scythian migrations over the millennia and the Gaelic language has been carried across the Eurasian continent to influence the languages of many peoples. The Trojans who lived next door to the Galatians and were themselves Scythians moved to Italy and became the Latines.
As we can see by this example, the b has consistently become a v and this is how we know that the word for a vampire uber, is not a Turkish word at all but Gaelic or Galatian. Remember the anomalous ’m’ in vampire? Well it just so happens that in dialectic Gaelic the consonant group Mh is pronounced V. The ’h’ became discarded over time and left the ’m’ in vampire where the ’u’ or ’v’ should be. If spelt literally vampire would be uavber, uauber or uaupir, which is the central European oupire or oupere.
These variants stem from the Sanskrit upari (Up-Ari or Up-Arya, meaning Over-Lord) for which the Greek is uper - uper - which, as we have already seen, is a component of super in Latin. Over (ME - ouere) began as a graphic variant of uuere which translates into the dynastic name Vere with the Latin V being interchangeable with the double U or hard Germanic W which became V - rendering Ver or Were. This is pronounced as a soft F, which we find in the Norse Yfari and the old English Uffara or Yffera.
The Turkish, or properly Galatian word Uber, meaning ’witch’ therefore linguistically corresponds to the foregoing variations found in Gothic, German, Dutch, Norse English, Greek, Latin and Sanskrit, where finally, as Upari, we discover that originally Uber - Vampire - meant Overlord. In the following paragraphs we shall investigate the cultural background behind the word ’witch’ as uber, and discover that what holds true linguistically is supported by cultural and social evidence.
Contextually, when applied to an individual as a ’witch’, the word uber would suggest that the person referred to was in some way ’over’ or ’above’ others, as in the German ubermensch or uberherren. The Germanic languages, as with the others sampled here, are all Indo-European and the Sanskrit in particular, being of Aryan or Scythian origin is closest to the Galatian, and we shall see that the argument for overlordship is exactly the case.
From a cultural standpoint, we read the word ’witch’ and with it comes a large trolley of baggage that we have inherited from the popularly reinforced understanding of the word, influenced heavily by fairy stories and biased histories told from a protagonistic point of view. Today the specifically Saxon word ’witch’ tends to conjure up images of old hags prancing about on dark, spooky moors and cackling into cauldrons.
Witch is derived from the Saxon root word wicce (feminine) or wicca (masculine) and the Saxons used it to describe a class of persons whom they thought were inhabited by an intelligence or spirit - a daemon or genii - usually evil, because the Saxons took up catholicism pretty early on in their careers and were consequently biased.
Conversely, some people today would like us to believe, however, that ’witch’ meant a "wise one" and say that witchcraft, or in Saxon - wiccecraeft as they like to call it - means craft of the wise, failing completely to realize that the word wise in Saxon is wita, not wicca or wicce.
Wicca is actually related to both ’wicker’ and ’Viking’ or Wiking as the Norse would pronounce it. In Russia the word Vikhr meaning whirlwind, is a title of the Zmei Dragons, sons and daughters of Zmei-Tiamat. This confirms that the link between Sumaire, Zmei or Zumei and Sumeria was also known in Russia, once a Viking province.
It also demonstrates that the Danish Vikings, witch lords, were sons of the Dragon and the Scandinavian Tuadha d’Anu. In Ireland the Zmei Lord or Vikhr is known as the Dark King - the Whirlwind, meaning he was sumaire or vampire and via Uber, a Witch Lord or Wicca. As the Willow (wicker) bends and yields to the whirlwind so the witch (wicca) yields to the Sumaire, the ancient vampire legacy within him or her, a legacy that is awoken during the Mass of the Phoenix, when the primordial ancestors rise from the dead to take possession of the witch’s soul!
Wicca, derived from the same Saxon word as Willow, means to "bend or yield" ones spirit to that of a daemon (Greek, meaning praeter human intelligence or inspiration), giving the christian idea of possession, though erroneously. The witch was indeed possessed by a daemon and that daemon was certainly praeter-human and not of this world.
Any spirit, including the archangels, conjured by the witch or magician (the distinction, like that between pagan and christian, is fallacious), as in ceremonial magic, was actually the ancestor (antecessor) of the witch her or himself. It was a denizen of the ancient dragon itself - but it was carried in the witch’s blood which, the purer it was through unbroken descent from the Dragons, the stronger would be the return of the ancestors within. The Stronger the blood the stronger the invocation and the more complete the possession. With Mixed blood there was weak inspiration and little discernible presence. "The Blood is the Life".
The witch was possessed by this daemon, because the witch by descent and heredity was that daemon itself. It was his or her genetic inheritance and part of his or her racial consciousness, and to that the witch would yield, when occasion necessitated, placing the witch and the words wicce or wicca firmly in the tradition of the trance seer (derkesthai), a practice rooted in Scythian shamanic culture.
This is confirmed in the word genius, meaning inborn intellect or inspiration. Closely related to this word is genie, meaning a spirit, as in genius loci - ’a spirit of place’. In Arabic the jinni is a spirit of fire or inspiration. The Latin genius, in Greek, is a daemon or inspiring intelligence and the root Latin gens signifies birth, origin and especially blood. The daemon or genius of the Dragons was inherited through the blood. Witches are born, not made by silly playacting initiation rituals.
A seer in Gaelic was called a Merlin and in the tripartite Aryan-Scythian caste system which overlaid that of their clients, the deeply religious Celts, the Merlin was a Druid Prince. Either side of the Druidic caste were the castes of the warrior aristocrats and the craftsmen and although they all tended to behave as equals in this king tribe system, the druids were senior in rank.
Each caste attended to their allotted tasks and the study, teaching and practice of shamanism and magic were strictly the province of the Druids and Druidesses, forming part of a vast storehouse of knowledge and experience in the crafts and sciences, and in statesmanship and lore.
The Druids were responsible for bringing into being gods for the Celts to worship and though they themselves were not religious, scholars agree that Druidism was the "religion" of the Celtic world. So we can see that although the Celts had their own caste system with their own burgh kings or chieftains, above them were the Scythian kings, and above the Scythian kings were the Elven Druids, the Priest Kings who stood above all others, the ultimate Overlords of Eurasia.
In the Scandinavian countries the craft or ability to gain wisdom or power (Sanskrit - Siddhi) by yielding to daemons or intelligences (ancestral god spirits which were part of the practitioners’ own genetic inheritance and make-up) through trance or dream states was considered to be shamanic and was called Siddir, whilst those who practiced this art were themselves called Siddirs. The Siddir knotted together the web of dreams and loosened those knots to release power and knowledge.
In other words they brought together and spoke or gesticulated a series of mnemonics that would trigger off precontrived, imprinted states of consciousness that acted as doorways into deeper seats of consciousness. In Gaelic Scythian this ability and the name corresponding to it was called the Sidhe, a term used to describe and name the Irish fairies, the Tuadha d’Anu or Tuatha de Danaan as they were later called, a race of priest kings or druid princes.
The Web of Dreams relates to both the witches’ knotted ball and the Web of Wyrd or Fate (fata-fairy) and in the Scythian and Celtic cosmology, the power associated with it was thought to reside in the Otherworld, the realm of the gods (druidic ancestors) which was entered via trance or dream states, achieved whilst the druid or druidess occupied the fairy hills, the mortuary raths where the forefathers were buried.
The witch, as a seer or Merlin in Scythian culture and society, consequently belonged to an exclusive genome within a distinct holy and royal caste of overlords, which is reflected in the Gaelic word for a witch - Druidhe - which is pronounced Drui and is related to Draoi and Dracoi, meaning a dragon. Drui itself means Man (or Woman) of the Tree (not men of the oaks, as some have suggested) and is also related to the Sanskrit dru, meaning to run. This is associated with the ritual of running the labyrinth, with which we will deal in due course.
Therefore in Galatia, which had its own druids and was the site of the Nemeton, the largest regular gathering of druids in Europe, the term for a witch was Uber meaning Overlord, whilst in the Gaelic west the term for a witch was Druidhe which meant the same as Uber - An Overlord.
In summary vampire in its earlier form - oupire - derives ultimately from the Galatian Uber, which itself is derived from the Aryan Upari and linguistically and contextually the Vampire - the witch or druid - was a Scythian High Queen or King: an Overlord.
It is interesting to note in this context that when he compiled his journals in the 17th century Calmet, who had traveled extensively throughout the Austrian empire as an official vampire investigator accompanying imperial officers and soldiers, wrote that he had found no evidence whatsoever to support any notion that vampirism was either a supernatural phenomenon committed by praeter-natural beings - which he utterly refutes - or that it ever occurred in any form, either as a cult or in any isolated incidents, amongst the lower strata of society.
Without exception the enlightened Abbé was able to discover perfectly ordinary explanations for the incidents he had investigated, which in his day was quite remarkable, as the Church in past times had actively promoted vampire paranoia.
As Professor Margaret Murray discovered herself, vampirism was not the prerogative of the merchant or peasant classes, but was a cultic observance confined to the environs of the nobility, often as an adjunct to rites of the Noble and Royal Witch Covens of Scotland.
We can say with confidence then that real vampirism was indulged in by living beings who, unerringly, were members of the pre-christian and anti-christian high nobility and royalty. The most famous vampire stories, those of Dracula, Bathory and de Rais, support this conclusion. The historical evidence therefore supports the etymological origin of the word ’vampire’ - An Overlord.
Vampirism, up until the early 1700’s, by which time it had been in decline for several centuries, was not merely or solely the practice of a few isolated, high-born opportunists seeking some form of personal advantage or satisfying private perversions. Vampirism took two forms and the bloodline descendants of the ancient vampire lords had, in Britain, set the practice within an overall, multi-faceted social and cultural framework, stemming from the Iron-Age, that never gets an airing in the Gothic novel.
Vampires weren’t just vampires, as the penny dreadful would have us believe, they were individuals and families who used the practice to achieve specific aims and thereby fulfill those specific social obligations which, since the Scythian-Celtic period of the High Dragon Kings, were equated with their rank and position as leaders and overseers.
The Scythians
Throughout this discourse it must be borne in mind that when we speak of the Scythians as ’fairies’, ’dragons’, ’vampires’ or ’elves’, we are not talking about either the client races of the Scythians, or the ordinary Scythian citizenry, but of ’Royal Scythians’.
As we have discovered, the vampire - as a "witch" - belonged by genetic inheritance, to a distinct royal caste in Scythian-Celtic society, that of the priest-king or priestess-queen, the prince and princess-druids who had evolved very early on in human social history and who belonged to a Eurasian-wide hereditary priestly community which had originated with the Scythian-Aryans. The name Scythian was originally spelt Sithian in 16th century England, and it is from this tribal name that we obtain the word scythe, denoting a curved bladed agricultural tool, so named because of its similarity in shape to the Scythian sword.
The Scythians weren’t however named after their use of a curved sword. The name Sithian is related to a group of words that appear in Indo-European languages which are found as far apart as Eire and Northern India, indicating that they had a common Aryan origin in Scythia. These include - Sithia, Sidhe, Siddir and Siddhi.
In Cymric ’dd’ is pronounced ’th’, whilst in Irish and Scots the ’th’ is spelt dialectically ’dh’ whilst the ’s’ beginning a word is pronounced ’sh’. As we have related, the Siddir in Danish society were witches who practiced the art of knot tying and loosening.
These Siddir were directly related to the mythic Norns, the Mori or Fates who were said to be responsible for the fate of mankind by the patterns that they wove in the way that they tied and loosened the knots of the Web of Wyrd. The Siddirs, as well as being seers, could control such power as to influence the outcome of human affairs and in this respect their name reflects their abilities which, in India, were called the Siddhis, a word used to describe the powers of the Yogi who had self-realized.
The curious Irish word - Sidhe - pronounced ’shee’, ’sheeth’ or ’sheeth-ay’, attributed to the fairies and meaning ’powers’, is therefore identical to Siddir (sheeth-eer) and Siddhi (sheeth-ee) and is derived therefore, from the people of the powers - the Scythians or Sidheans (sheethee-ans). In Scotland the royal fairies were called the Seelie or Sheelie and their princesses were related to the sculpted Sheelagh Na Gigs over church doorways, who do NOT depict ancient goddesses of fertility, but were the royal Grail Maidens of the Elven kings and queens.
The Sheelagh na Gigs were goddesses of sovereignty and transcendence, and their place over the doorways of churches, many of which were built on the sites of ancient sacred groves, indicated that in entering these buildings one was entering through the vulva of the maiden into the otherworld, the realm of Elphame and the Kingdom of Heaven.
They were permitted above church doorways because the early church itself wanted to be identified with the old ways, firstly because it was in fact, at least in the beginning, part of the old ways and later, when catholicism took over, the Sheelaghs remained in place - in order to attract and convert "pagans".
Along with the Irish Sidhe, the Seelie and the Seelie Court of Scotland had a distinctly royal origin in the Tuadha d’Anu who when asked, like their Pictish descendants in Scotland, said of themselves that they were Scythian, as Canon Beck himself has insisted.
Some people tend to think that the word sidhe means a hill and therefore that the Irish Danaan, as the Sidhe, inherited this name as a consequence of fleeing into the hills after their defeat by the Milesians. As we can see this is not so and the fairy "hills", where the Aes Dan or Danaan, the gods of the Irish, were said to live, weren’t all Sidhe hills.
These - the power hills - were the sacred temple-mortuary raths and barrows, the creachaires or tomb-sepulchers, that the Danaan priest-kings were wont to ritually occupy for millennia before moving to Eire, and centuries before their Iberian kinsmen, the Milesians, came looking for a fight. The Sidhe, the Fairies, were the ’controllers of the fate of mankind’ and so named in remembrance of, and in identification with, their ancient Anunnaki (Anunnagi) ancestors.
In pre-christian history, although some practiced agriculture for a while, according to Murray-Hall M.A. they abandoned it for their traditional way of life and many of the Scythian clans remained solitary and insular nomadic pastoralists - horse lords who ranged across large tracts of Europe and Asia for centuries. Others opted late for a more settled existence and mixed settled agriculture with pastorialism, a system that can be found in both Takla Makan, where they built fine cities, and in Ireland, where they became know as the trooping fairies.
In general they were usually tall, pale skinned, with golden red hair and green eyes, unlike the Celts, who were stocky and squat, with ruddy complexions and dark hair, and practiced settled agriculture from a very early period.
The recent and rather unfortunate propagandist depiction of the Aryan (Scythian) as a tall, ruddy complexioned blonde racist yeoman-farmer-warrior-god has no basis in truth. In pre-christian history an Aryan was a High King, a warrior was a warrior and a farmer was a farmer and ne’er the three e’er met. The real Aryans of fact were red haired and green eyed, their hired military help, derived from their lower Ksatriya caste who were not Aryan were, sometimes, blonde and blue eyed.
The Aryan royal families didn’t intermarry with other tribes or castes but, with the development by many of their clans of settled city-states such as Scythopolis (30 AD, on the banks of the River Jordan just south of Galilee) nevertheless they became urban multi-racialists and appreciated cultural diversity.
The Aryan Hittites in particular were close allies of the Jews whose Draconian royal family, the House of David, made the Israelites, in a cultural sense, an early Aryan nation, and the Scythians and the Aryan Scythian Gaels had numerous settlements either in or adjacent to Israel and Judea.
The comparatively early use of the horse and of horse related technology separated the Aryans from the other tribes that occupied the middle-east and Eurasia. In Mittani, Mesopotamia, Akkad and Anatolia the Hurrians (whom in the 1920’s B. Hrozny described as the earliest Hindus) were the absolute Overlords and their supremacy is credited to their early use, like the Kurgans, of horse-drawn chariots.
The Hur syllable in Hurrian has been asserted by scholars, including G. Contenau (’La Civilisation des Hittites et des Hurrites de Mittani’) to be Har or Ar, meaning that the Hurrians, like the Scythians were Aryans with an Aryan Vedic royal-sacral family of gods.
These they bestowed upon the Hittites whose culture they dominated, (as the Hurrian or Aryan Mittani did in Mesopotamia) and the Hittites, in turn, provided the Greeks with these red-gold haired gods, including Zeus or Dyas Pater - the Jewish Jehovah, whose ancient symbol, shared with the sacred dynasty as a whole was - ironically - the swastika.
The early "Scythians", the people of the powers, occupied a region spanning The Balkans, Transylvania, Carpathia, the Ukraine and later, Siberia and Takla Makan where the Tocharians, as the Elves were mistakenly called by early linguists, spoke a ritual language which is now called Tocharian A but which originated in Thrace in 1800 BC and thus had connections with the Fir Bolg and consequently with the Tuadha d’Anu as a whole, who began migrating from Central Europe to Ireland at that period.
Over the centuries, from 5000 BC onwards, the Scythians had also migrated into the middle-east and had provided ruling families for many tribes and nations along and beyond the eastern Mediterranean coast.
In the ’Annals of Irish History’ the Scythian ’Tuadha d’Anu’ who had migrated farther still, to the islands of the north, were described as a tribe of deific queens, kings, princes and lords and were noted for having druids of their own. In Japan’s North islands there lives a shamanic tribe called the Ainu whose early writing style has been identified as being Gaelic Ogham!
As a noble tribe, a sect of the Aryan peoples who, during various migrations, had also wandered east several centuries before the d’Anu displacement and their reputed first journey to Eire in 1500 BC, the Aryan-Scythian horse lords, traveling south-east via Persia (Iran) from 1800 BC onwards, had entered the Indus Valley and intermingled with the Dravidian population.
This migration was to lands already formerly under Sumerian and consequently Ubaid control. The westward migration of the Scythians or Sidheans also included these very same Dravidians who, so British traditions state, were the messengers and summoners or ’fetches’ of the Merlins.
These curious and delightful beings were also known as brownies, for obvious reasons and adopted the habit of body tattooing in emulation of their Scythian lords, who in Britain and Ireland were known as the Pixies, which is a name derived from Pict-Sidhes or painted fairies.
The confusion which arises when the Picts are described as being short and brown may be clarified when we remember that the Scythian Caste System consisted of three closely interknit, co-operating races, whose traditions and practices would inevitably become, to a certain extent, common to all within the system by a natural process of social osmosis.
From this encounter arose the eastern branch of the Aryan, Vedic "Hindu" religion, with its druids or magi - the Brahmins - and a pantheon of gods who were virtually identical with the Sumerian, the Egyptian, the Hittite, The Irish, the Gaulish, the Danish and the Greek, all of which stem from this early family of Elven goddess-queens and god-kings whose first home was to be found in The Balkans, Transylvania, Carpathia and the Caucasus regions of Greater and Little Scythia.
Within the Brahmin caste special Tantric rites were and still are studied and practised. Evidence suggests that these ancient rites were brought to India from Sumeria. This accords with the assertion that Qabalah itself originated there also and the author has long maintained that Tantra, particularly the Kaula Vama Marg and Esoteric Qabalism are simply variations of each other. The Tree of Life symbol and its hidden meanings appears in Druidism and given the evidence to date, we can confidently say that Tantra and Qabalah are descended from ancient Ubaid Druidic philosophy.
The right hand path version of Hindu and Buddhist Tantra concerns itself with studying and practicing sexual rites that one might find associated with the Kama Sutra. This form of Tantra promotes penetrative intercourse as a method of changing consciousness and has attached to it various commentaries on right-living and right-thinking. This was thought by some Indian scholars to have originated with those who were depicted by one Indian scholar as the animistically minded, sex mad weasels, the Dravidians. The left hand path however is somewhat different.
This discipline can be found in both Hinduism and Buddhism and concerns itself with the practice of vampirism. This alone is sufficient evidence to allow one to ascertain that the ’Black’ or Left Hand or Kaula Path preceded the later right hand path which, though joyously tactile and self indulgent to begin with, appears many centuries later to have been somewhat sanitized for public consumption. The yogic disciplines associated with the Kaula Path, originating with the Scythians, are intended to lead the practitioner to what one might call ’union with godhead’.
This psychological condition is manifest in mystical christianity as being the perception by the devotee of ’the kingdom of heaven’. That few christians ever achieve such a state is not to be wondered at, as christianity is also a royal blood tradition, exactly like its brother and sister, Druidism and Witchcraft.
Many christians haven’t got a clue about this aspect of Jesus’ teaching and are in any case not encouraged to explore its possibilities because such union leads to physical and psychological freedom, the very last thing that the established churches wish to encourage in the masses, even though Jesus himself preached it.
Union with Godhead, dwelling in Elphame, realization of the Buddha or whatever one likes to call it is accompanied by a range of powers which were catalogued by the amazing Edwardian lady explorer Alexandra David Niel, who witnessed the performance of these remarkable powers or Siddhis by Buddhist monks in Nepal and Tibet, whose ritual and philosophy owed much to the indigenous religion Bon-Po which ethically followed the same path as Kaula Vama Marg.
In the west we call it magic but, as we have seen, it was also known as the Sidhe. Kaula Tantra is dedicated to the Goddess Kali who is associated with both creation and destruction in the Hindu pantheon. Kali is a lunar deity who, like Tantra itself, moved east from Sumeria. As a moon goddess she is associated particularly with moon blood and the essences of the female organs of generation.
So what can we say of the nascence of Vampirism so far? Principally that it originated, not surprisingly, in Transylvania and the Central Eurasian region known as Scythia and that its practitioners were of a distinct race, the Elves, the high goddess-queens and god-kings of the Arya or Aesir.
Vampirism was the central feature of a philosophy based on endocrinology, rather than occult mumbo-jumbo and used the consumption of female blood and mumae to enhance awareness and lead the practitioner to union with godhead.
The powers accompanying such an elevated state of consciousness were called the sidhe or siddhi and were, with vampirism, the foundation of the cults of Druidism, Tantric Kaula Yoga, Qabalism, Alchemy, Rosicrucianism and Witchcraft.
Kali, like all the Ubaid Deities was a flesh and blood being. She, Kalimaath or Kali Marg, was a daughter of Lilith and Samael, son of Anu, who appears in the Aryan pantheon as Ahura Mazda and in Iran as the Medean god Zoroaster. Anu himself was the god who gave his name to the Tuatha de Danaan and as Sitchin has suggested the definition of the word god itself is ’descended of Anu’.
Based on the spelling ’Tuatha de Danaan’, some have suggested that these Irish elven folk derived their name from an Irish mother goddess named Dana. If they had checked the earlier spelling - Tuadha d’Anu (Tribe of Anu) - they would have discovered that the Scythian Sidhe were the sons and daughters of Anu and the Ubaid gods and goddesses.
To recap then we have a clear connection between the words siddhi and sidhe both of which originate from a Scythian or earlier proto-Aryan-Ubaid root. The Scythians, as the Aryans of Persia and Asia provided the people then with their religious and social structures and mores and spread their wisdom and overlordship, mostly by invitation from prospective client tribes, throughout Britain and Europe.
The Scythian Aryans, as the ’Danaan’ settled in Eire and Scotland whilst in Wales they were known as the House of Don (Dan) or the House of Gwynnedd. This house sired the line of Llewelyn Princes, whilst in Scandinavia the Danaan became the Danes or Vikings and produced a junior cousin line - the Svei or Swedes - from which descended the Ruotsi clan who founded Russia. In Denmark the Sidhe was present as the Siddir, a class of seer or witch who were later separated from the Godthi or Gothi, the Danish Druids.
The Scythian Danaan in Eire, as in the rest of Europe, were a race apart, a ruling caste within which, like the original race of the Gods from whom they descended, there were further caste classifications.
In Denmark these were later named the Jarl, Carl and Thrall castes whilst in Eire they were broadly speaking the Druids, the Kings and the Warrior Smiths. In India they are still defined as the Brahmins, the Ksatriyas and the Sudras.
The original castes of the Gods were:
a) the common gods - gods of Earth
b) the gods of Heaven and Earth
c) the gods of Heaven
The first class were what we might call jobbing gods who became the genii locus or pagan spirits. The second class - the gods of Heaven and Earth - were the Titans, the Repha’im and Morrighans, the Angels and Valkyries who interceded between the transcended gods, the divine ancestors - the gods of Heaven - and man.
Heaven was the otherworld, not a place up in the stars, but a state of being which was adjacent to our own dimension - called sometimes the mirror-world, most competently described, more than once, in the Mabinogion - which could be freely entered and left by the gods of Heaven and Earth, the Portal Guardians. In this place, also known as Elphame, Hades, Hel, Caer Glas and Tir Na n’og there dwelt the essences of the previous gods of Heaven and Earth who had passed on to become the transcended ones, the ’antecessors’ or ancestors of the later witches.
By dwelling in tombs the gods of Heaven and Earth, the Danaan Queens and Kings, made contact with their ancestor Gods and passed their wisdom and edicts on to mankind. Today we might call this process invocation.
These gods are carried in the blood and by invocation, we bring their qualities and identities to the forefront of conscious being and give them voice. These druidic gods and goddesses of Heaven and Earth were effectively the highest overlords on Earth, the elven rulers of the human kings and queens who ruled beneath them.
Often we find mention of the fairy blood in the medieval era in connection with the ruling nobility of the time. We might then be tempted to come to the logical conclusion that all nobility and royalty was thus of Fairy origin. However this is simply not the case. Despite the usurpation of the original fairy families by the church sponsored new nobility, the previous kingly and noble dynasties were essentially human anyway.
The fairy blood at that time, the dark ages and the medieval period, was carried by the descendants of the Archdruidic dynasties who formerly ruled over the contemporary Celtic and Eurasian kings and lords, it was not carried by any or all of the royal or noble families of the time simply because they were the heads of their castes, because over such class distinctions were positioned additionally, the castes of the elven god-kings themselves.
The gods of Heaven and Earth - the Archdruidic caste - dwelt in Barrows and Bergs which in Eire were called Raths, meaning a ’royal seat’. These Raths were the holy shrines and sepulchres built by the Danaan - the original Gods of Ireland according to the ’Annals of Irish History’ - to house the mortal remains of their ancestors and act as royal palaces for the Portal Guardians. In specific cases these Gods are named, and we learn, for instance, that Newgrange was the shrine occupied by Nuadha and later Oengus.
The devotional and holy nature of these places has led some scholars and commentators to believe that, because they were tombs and temples, then those said to occupy them must be purely spiritual entities, gods of an ethereal nature. Originally nothing could have been farther from the truth. Both Nuadha and Oengus were kings of the Danaan and contemporary descriptions of them and their kin leave us with the picture of the Danaan as a race of people with prodigious and very earthly appetites.
From their kinsmen in Siberia we know that, by our dubious standards, they were complete junkies and imbibed any form of drug they could get hold of. These would have included cannabis and cocaine, prevalent in Egypt and the Levant at the time, as well as the drugs classically associated with the druids and the elves such as Amanita Muscaria and Psylocybin, the fairy mushrooms of children’s picture books everywhere.
The Danaan were hardened drinkers and unscrupulous womanizers, whilst accounts of their princesses relate that they often mated in public with the highest nobles of their clan, to prove or reiterate their social standing to onlookers. (Heroditus: The Histories).
Counterbalancing this view of them, born of our own hypocritical conditioning, the Danaan, whether in Eire or mainland Europe or Asia, were the finest smiths, jewellers, poets and musicians of their time, they were the Lords of fearless warriors and gifted horsemen and, despite what we might think of the foregoing, they were a righteous, meticulous people who maintained standards of conduct in areas of their social life where such standards were considered essential for the harmonious order of society.
Great emphasis was laid upon honesty and truth in one’s words and one’s dealings, the maintenance and conservation of the natural environment was paramount, and infractions, such as the cutting of trees, could mean death. Emphasis was also laid on hospitality and courtly behavior to one’s peers or guests, the honoring of one’s ancestors and heroes, and the maintenance of extended family ties through fostering.
They weren’t bothered about the petty morality we imbue our sexual behavior with but would kill a man for breaking his word or lying. They were an heroic people and, compared with us today, a far more moral race whose standards of conduct, not invested or centered on our kind of childish taboos - but placed where it matters - puts us to shame.
They were a race centered on their spirituality which itself was centered on gnosis and transcendent consciousness. This made them, like their later royal Viking cousins, a fearless people much loved and also much feared in turns, by all who knew them, whether in Eurasia or the British islands.
In about 500bc the Milesians entered Ireland from Iberia. Having defeated the Danaan tribes they put many of them to flight. It was during this period that the Danaan became known as the Daouine Sidhe - the people of the hills - an erroneous use of the word sidhe.
One group, the tribe of the Danaan king of Ulster, Bruidhne (mistakenly called Cruithne by the Romans), fled to Caledonia where they became known as the remnant of Cruithne or the ’Cruithainn’.
Other Danaan clans fled to Wales and the south west of mainland Britain. Several centuries later, when the Romans were unfortunate enough to encounter them in Scotland, they referred to these Danaan as ’Picts’ and it is this word that has adapted itself to become one of the names we use to describe the elven peoples - the pixies - or properly the Pict-Sidhes as we have already seen.
These being also came to be known as the Leprachauns and the etymology of this word, though thought to mean ’small-bodied’ actually means ’scaly-bodied’ from the Latin word lepra as in leprosy - scaly skinned.
The scaliness referred to was derived from the fish -scale style of armour which was common to the draconian Dacians, the Zmei, the Danes and the Danaan, all of whom originated in the region now known as Greater Scythia.
The scaly, twin-pronged tail of the wouivre or mermaid was also derived from the use, by grail maidens, of fish-scale plated leggings. When worn with the swan’s or raven’s feather cloaks, we have the classical image of the Harpie, reproduced in medieval depictions of Melusine.
Pict or Pictish means ’painted’ and the Danaan earned this appellation by virtue of their use of tattoos or woad to decorate their bodies with totemic or magical markings, the favorite being the labyrinth or spiral whorl.
The ancestors of the Irish Danaan - the Ubaid Danaan - had been using tattoos and woad since 4000 BC and examples of it can also be found in depictions of the Egyptian god Osiris or Asher as he is also known, and in the depictions of the Hindu gods Vishnu and Siva. Kali herself was also known as Kali Azura - the Blue Kali.
The spiral or whorl - the labyrinth - is the subject of a later essay in which it and its painted or carved symbol, lie at the centre of vampire and elven tradition. The spiral can be found carved into the rock at Newgrange in Ireland and also featured as a sacred design associated with the dwellings of the related Kassite Danaan clans who migrated to Britain.
In the Gaelic language we find two words specifically defining ’vampires’. The first - Creachaire - means a sepulchre, a tomb, a shrine and a temple, indicating that the character we later become familiar with as the "vampire" of Gothic legend was in fact a "dweller in the tombs", a druidic priest-king or priestess-queen - an Uber or Witch Overlord.
In Eurasia, particularly in the permafrost of Siberia and the arid wastes of Takla Makan in China, the mummified bodies of Scythian Chieftains and Shamankas or Priestess queens have been found. In Siberia the frozen remains of a male were unearthed. He had been tattooed with animal designs reminiscent of the totem Pictish salmon often found carved on stones in Scotland.
In the same region a shamanka had been unearthed who had been tattooed with the spiral labyrinth design. She, like her counterpart in Takla Makan, wore the conical headress of the Anunnaki gods of Sumeria that is also associated with medieval witchcraft. This same headress is depicted in bas-relief on the walls of the palace of Darius as being worn by those Scythians who brought him gifts in 500 BC.
The Takla Makan mummy, excavated by the Chinese in the 1960’s had red-gold hair and was buried adjacent to a cache of tartan plaid cloth and spiral painted pottery, similar to that found at Al’Ubaid in Syria. In the same region caves have been discovered where the walls are painted with devotional Buddhist pictures featuring the Tocharians, as they are known, conversing with Buddha.
Geoffrey Ashe states that the western Druids were interviewed by Buddha who claimed that they, the Druids, had established Shangri-La in the west. This should give the reader some hint as to the general thrust of druidic philosophy and of the hidden nature of that promoted by Jesus, whom St Columbus clearly stated was also a druid and magus himself.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/dragons/esp_sociopol_dragoncourt02_01.htm
I find the history interesting of vampirism. Recently some 16th century -vampires- where unearthed In Poland with rocks in there mouths and stakes in there legs. As the articular states they were mythical creatures. I do not believe they are real. I have spoken to some folks here who believe themselves to be a vampire and as stated above when you question some of them for proof some get all upset. Then a few weeks ago some girl told me she was a real life Fey. 0.o If some wish to live the lifestyle and as long as no one gets hurt will what ever rocks your boat. Here the link to the article I mentioned and some snippets from it. Superstitions have always interested me.
Archaeologists in northwestern Poland have a found a suspected vampire
The burial was found in a cemetery in the town of Kamien Pomorski
A stake had previously been driven through one leg of the skeleton
This was designed to stop it rising from the grave after its death
It also had a small rock in its mouth to stop it sucking blood from victim
"There is a strong Slavic belief in spirits. Romanian folklore has vampiric figures such as the moroi and strigoi. The word 'mora' means nightmare. But these are common to many cultures. We often see bird or owl-like figures that swoop and feed on you."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2627080/16th-century-vampire-unearthed-complete-rock-mouth-stop-blood-sucking-stake-driven-LEG.html
My belief on the matter is quite simple. As long as it's between consenting adults and they want to to drink blood or give blood then have at it. I'd never do it, but that's just me. I'd never want to take away anyone's thing. Some people just like the taste of blood. Some people like a little bit of pain. Again, if it's consensual, who cares?
Doru, I would like to thank you for this great post.
I honestly knew only a fraction, despite being here so many years.
The mention of the "gateway of trance", respect and truth with all living things particularly trees, cannot just be coincidence. Merlin to Arthur "Truth Arthur above all truth"
I think it unlikely the "Green eyes" of the Black hills of Wales are merely coicidence unless your post is fabricated.(Which I sincerely doubt)
I would add the legends of Dragons and witches in these parts persist to this day.
As so often in History, such Myths and legends have more than a degree of truth.
I just wanted to say, "Holy long-ass post, Doru". :) Pretty well thought out and thank you. It's seriously way more than I have time to research these days.
I stick with my personal belief: Vampirism is a lifestyle choice. I think that it's a fringe belief that some will hold to and others will not, just like all beliefs out there both major and minor.
You can argue historical vampirism all you like (and you can argue any historical anything all you like), but it doesn't change the mind of the believers or nonbelievers.
I think there are role-players out there and there are those with extraordinary talents (not talking superhuman movie stuff, but other latent ability). Sometimes the two worlds collide and create an existence that makes sense for the individual. One can hardly fault them for that in this crazy day and age, can they?
@Doru --
Great citation, though... yes... a bit long-winded, perhaps. But good!
And it's refreshing to note that whoever wrote that just happened to focus for a time on the mysterious "m" that was added over the centuries to "Vapir" (as "Upir" was changed to in more-central Slavic lands). However, the mystery appears to have been solved. There is most definitely a very well-documented reason how and why this occurred.
As I explained during my recent presentation this past March at the ASSAP "Seriously Staked" Vampire Symposium held at Goldsmiths College in London, it was Dr. Bruce McClelland's book "Slayers and Their Vampires..." that provides a very in-depth and entirely logical linguistic explanation for the strange addition of the "m" such that created our modern term: Vampir(e).
As Dr. McClelland explained in his book and as I audibly demonstrated for the audience during the aforementioned symposium presentation (though it's a bit harder to do in writing, here), when one says the word "vapir," and as one proceeds in sounding the word from the "a" to the "p," the act of closing the lips in preparation of saying the "p" perfectly positions the lips to say the sound of an "m." And if the vocal chord sound used to entone the "a" (i.e., "ahhh") prior to the "p" is permitted to continue as lips close in preparation of making the "p" sound... then, you are going to produce the sound of an "m."
Try it yourself... and you'll see. Say "vapir"... say "vvvv-aaaa..." then close your lips in preparation of the "p" sound but continue entoning the vocal chords and... guess what... you're saying the "mmmmm" sound right before the "p" that would follow.
Now... imagine you're living in the 18th Century as someone from Western Europe who travels to the mysterious and then-unknown lands of Central Europe... and you hear someone say "vapir" but, as the word is foreign to you and perhaps as it is pronounced in such a manner that the vocal-chord sound continues from the "ahhh" sound to the "p" sound and you think you hear an "m" sound right there, instead. So... that's how you phonetically spell it in your journal and, later, report it in Western Europe.
And... thus... the new Western European word "vampir" was born that later became "vampire" in English.
And that... is the most likely and obvious explanation how and why, over time, the word went from its native "vapir" to the French "vampir" (in the 18th Century) and became "vampire" later still in English.
This explanation also works for "upir" to "ubir" (uber)... because in that word, if one continues to produce vocal chord sound as the lips close to the "p" sound... then the "p" becomes a "b" sound. The "b" sound is the exact same closed-lip position as the "p." The only difference is that the "b" sound is with vocal-chord sound while the "p" sound is without it. (And a possible "m" sound in this case is a bit less intuitively indicated given the pursed lips required to make the "oooooo" sound of the "u" in "upir" that makes it a bit less likely that an "m" would be formed in going from the "u" to the "p.")
Even though some consider him fringe Nicholas de Vere did a more than twenty year research project on vampires/vampirism. What Doru posted I'm very familiar with because I have done a lot of research on the Dragoncourt. They are very elitist and you cannot get in unless you have two gene anomalies. I use to know what they were but I have forgotten now. Then they have satellite groups, those with one of the genes and others who have no connection genetically. Mr. de Vere did name them at one time. It wasn't that all consuming for me to worry about them because I felt they weren't that significant over all. A group of people have two genes others don't have but what does it prove? He considers these people the true Dragon Lords, or vampires if you will. They are overlords of mankind and have gone by many names.
Since I have done extensive research on Nicholas de Vere and talked to him a couple of times, interesting man I would say this is some of his writing. I recognized it right away. You can find it all in a book called The Dragon Legacy I believe but originally was called from Transylvania to Turnbridge Wells and it was supposed to be given out freely until he got into a disagreement with Laurence Gardner (who at one time was a member of the court) who used some of this work for two books and gave him very little credit since it was twenty years of research. I see this put up all over the net on various websites sometimes giving credit and other times not giving the source.
Nicholas de Vere is the sovereign of the Dragon Court of the Royal House of Vere. He also doesn't believe in vampires as blood drinkers but certain aspects of nomadic life got infused into the beliefs since some took extra horses and bled them when out of food to survive. Many had warrior ceremonies where they drank the blood of the vanquished thinking they took on their power. They were headhunters and had various familial tribal customs dealing with drinking of blood and eating of flesh. Much of this got mixed into vampire beliefs that they did this merely to sustain themselves rather than cultural practices. Vampire is not the only word that has been used over time. Too many are stuck on the Slavic end of things as if no one ever migrated to different areas.
He goes on to explain about Starfire and what that is which is integral to the work Doru put up. I think I put what I wrote about it in one of my profiles. What is here is a drop in the bucket of what he has written on the subject. People take information and draw it from various sources and because of the meaning of various words decide that it means certain things upon extrapolation. There is no proof any theory is correct but there are opinions about what people are calling vampirism because it has become the word of choice coming from one area on the planet.
As for role players, there are thousands then role playing and have been even before the idea of "goth" came into existence from teens to I would say 70s at least all over the world. It is presuming a lot to use the tag role player which is relatively modern to describe such a large group of people who quite frankly don't even agree among themselves. Opinions are fine but that's all they are.
Doru - I really appreciate your post. While I knew some of the info, a lot was new to me. So - thanks!
It is interesting to see how one can figure out the meanings of words/phrases by knowing some history of the language(s).
...Ahhh...this thread is going for a long ride. Vampirism is a nonsense. Religions are nonsense. But, if you psycho-analyze life in General, then, life is nonsense. If I tell you that in my back yard, Vampires, those little creatures that fly at night, come out and suck the blood of cows or what ever 4 legged creatures are roaming at night, probably is a nonsense. For the normal Human, anything is nonsense, because they are the one, that need to see to believe. They need to feel and touch, so, they can tell others about their finding. Just, because some don't believe, doesn't mean, do not exist.
I guess I will have to Spell it out.
This link...on the BBC is not a could be, maybe, or should be.
It is fact...fresh young blood appears to restore Brain matter reversing disease.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-27282832
As Andy Hamilton (Satanic sceptic) discussed on Have I got News for you Series 47. with comedian Paul Merton.
"Actually it's not funny, potentially young people... having been robbed of a free education, the chance of a descent job with descent wages or a pension, will now be preyed upon by Rich old vampyric men"
It seems I have spell checkers spinach on my teeth again, "above is 'Decent' although descent seems somewhat apt...
Re: the BBC article... the blood is injected, not ingested; nothing "vampiric" about it.
True.
Science has not proven that consuming blood has any benefits. This injecting of blood appears to be similar to a blood transfusion - entering the blood stream directly, as opposed to going through the whole digested process.
The concept of young blood has been around for ages - since the age of Elizabeth Bathory, who used to bathe in the blood of younger females, under the belief that it will give her a youthful glow.
This is merely taking the saying, "Blood is life" too literally. I think this is the same as one consuming placenta.
But does science really need to validate or debunk a fetish or a lifeforbidden? Vampirism seems to have a broader term these days. It even trans-ends blood feeding and enters area such as energy feeding. Perhaps that's more imaginative than factual but the people doing it seem to believe it.
To get back to the point, whether vamprisim is nonsense or not is subjective.
Nowadays, if someone tells me they are a vampire, I always ask them what it means to them. If they think their a vampire in the supernatural sense, I think that's silly. However, if they mean it in a lifeforbidden way, I understand.
That's my two cents.
By the way, was one of my posts deleted? Weird.
Let's not forget the concept of "faith". Faith is believing in something, even though you have no factual basis to believe that it is true.
I'm not trying to disrespect anyone's belief (as I am not targeting anyone's belief) but simply trying to understand: If you have no factual basis upon which to believe something... why would you believe in it? What causes an otherwise intelligent person to forgo their own intelligence and reason and, instead, blindly believe something for which there is no evidence... and, more incomprehensible still, defend and support that belief even when and in spite of glaring evidences to the contrary? What's the point?! What does such a blind belief offer that matters more than actually investigating and pursuing REAL facts and truths?
It boggles the mind at the gullibility such attitudes... and the pride such engenders, too... these vain beliefs create. Not to mention the poor choices and, often, dumb decisions made as a result of them.
Jonestown and Waco, TX are too of the more extreme examples of what happens when belief trumps simple reason and logic. Is simply believing for the sake of believing any comfort to those destroyed lives and those of the ones left behind... especially when such beliefs were so easily disproved if these people had simply engaged a brain cell or two?!
Believe if you must... however, I can find no reason why anyone MUST believe!
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." -- Philip K. Dick
Upir, whilst you make good points you and others do so in a slanted way. Not even entertaining faith and thoughts as an entity.
I recall the comments on E=MC2 and how science would solve the anomaly of particles exceeding the speed of light within a week, and how it was almost certainly a test error.
Two years later and science is still scratching its bloodied head.
Whilst I agree, the mice test was based on blood plasma and is probably no-sense in humans, you cannot rule out the possibility.
There are thousands of gut bacteria the help digest and ingest complex compounds, and they differ from person to person.
Do not be to quick to dismiss that we do not fully understand.
Doru in your reference to Sumerian dieties and the use of the term watchers, are you aware that in the Necronomicon the astral creatures which are summoned to protect the mage outside thier protective circle are translated as watchers? I apologize if it is a breech in etiquette for a low level is ask questions, I merely found the connection intriguing.
Existentialism... You make my case for me by demonstrating how, in science, it is the evidence and the subsequent verification of evidence that best disciplines those making claims from overstating such that... in Belief... would simply be accepted without thinking and reasoning, first! In Belief, it would have simply been swept under the rug with the insipid response (as you gave) that it's just something we don't understand.
Upir.. Because they have faith.. They put their trust in a power greater than themselves and if that is what is keeping them in control, than I am not going to question it.
It is just that beliefs lead to redundancies in thinking. Every question is answered with, "You just have to believe." There is no encouragement beyond that. As if all one needs to do is believe. As if believing alone settles the matter. Well as a believer once myself I still asked questions. Eventually I grew jaded by non-answers, and claims that contradictions are simply Paradoxes.
Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.
Richard Dawkins
Dabbler, that is simply untrue.
You state faith is "You simply have to believe"
Thus ignoring a plethera of evidence, wierd demonic possessions, faith healing, ancient scripts, the oracle of Delphi.
All of this is cast aside in the name of science because these experiments "cannot be repeated and verified"
Here Sir, are your blinkers.
And even when science does throw up question marks, the nay sayers throw in their qualifications rather than thinking outside the Box.
That Sir, is living is the real dark energy or matter or whatever you learned folks are calling it nowadays.
Open your mind.
There are things that you cannot replicate in an experiment,but may nevertheless be true.Would you really dismiss every idea that you cannot prove with 100% certainty?
I find it just as bad to make sweeping negative statements about things that are associated to a belief system. Quite frankly no one has to prove anything.
Doru's post is from a particular writer who is now passed. There is a memorial page to him and as far as I know, no academic has ever accepted anything Nicholas de Vere has written. It is considered fringe. The vampire community pays little heed to the Dragoncourt and his ideas. This is not general information so much as Mr. de Vere's ideas from his research project and the conclusions he came to on his own. There is a memorial page on him here if you want to know more about the man but everything in the post are his ideas alone. If you are interested in him and what he has written you can find a lot of information on this page.
http://www.amarushka.com/nicholas-tribute.html
I wondered why he left Facebook and I see now that he was most likely ill. I felt lucky that he even asked for me to be friends and I think it was because I was friends with Tracy Twyman. She was a member of the Dragoncourt and she's a journalist and often writes on occult topics. His memorial page is here and I don't doubt he had reasons he came up with the conclusions he did but his views are not considered anything but that.
As far as sanguinarian vampires, they are a minority group and some organizations won't accept them as members. My attitude is why would anyone care if they are from the mainstream community. People have donors and some take a little everyday but most don't. They believe it does help them to boost energy and give good health. As long as no one is harmed who cares about what some medical person or a scientist says about it...they use to think the world was flat so I take all these things with a grain of salt.
Wow, Exie, I really hope you were just being over-the-top sarcastic. I'd like to hope you don't actually believe what you were dishing out.
"Wierd demonic possessions, faith healing, ancient scripts, the oracle of Delphi"? Really? You cite these as examples worthy of rational, intelligent consideration? No doubt, in your mind there truly is nothing but legitimacy in people flopping around on the floor "possessed" and in quack preachers "healing" fake stand-ins and psychic "surgeons" palming chicken guts out of gullible paying "patients."
And then more amazing still, and with an apparent straight face, you chastise Dabbler telling him HE'S the one with "blinkers" on (I think you meant to say "blinders," unless you actually were referring to... turn-signal lights?).
Yeah... let's all surrender our intellects and plummet back into the Dark Ages of fear and ignorance with such wacko beliefs used for millennia by scam artists and charlatans and throw Science under the bus, which has only served to effectively discredit all such superstitions and gullibility for centuries while revealing bit by bit the actual amazing realities and natural forces that really do surround us.
Great idea !!! *rolls eyes*
Upir - I was thinking the same exact thing, which made me soooo confused, as I thought that he was against the faith healers, charlatans, and the like.
Of course vampirism is nonsense, in the sense that there are no vampires. But I like to think that within the 'nonsense' the myths behind vampires should make sense, ie have a historical base behind it.
The one error that common beings make is that they hardly ever learn from what has happened. Citing these examples may support a point the Existentialism is making, but I feel that it is simply a regression of evolution. Why look back and wonder about these things when they're not helping in anything? Ayn Rand, an objectivist, was a great supporter of looking back at history, but only for the sole purpose of learning and correcting our failings in the present and future. Thus, I feel that there really is no need to bring these points up, ie entirely dismissing vampirism as nonsense. History is a mere indicator. However, to learn from it, would be a sign of great step forward.
Dear Isis and lordess (two of my favorite VRers), you both hit the proverbial nail on the head. And, lordess, I am also a huge Ayn Rand fan. So was wonderful to see one of her views expressed here. :)
And, as with both of you, I too have been very confused by "Exie's" constant flip-flopping back and forth between apparently criticizing those who "believe" and then insulting anyone who agrees and expresses disbelief. The more he posts, the more apparently hypocritical he sounds. It would be nice were he to provide explanation (if there is any such) for this, even if it's just to state/admit he enjoys baiting everyone.
Sang' posts
"There are things that you cannot replicate in an experiment,but may nevertheless be true.Would you really dismiss every idea that you cannot prove with 100% certainty?"
That is the difference between cynicism, and skepticism.
Faith is one thing. A belief based on faith cannot be technically proven, or disproved. Yet when those with such beliefs claim they have evidence that supports their belief it is no longer under the blanket of faith. It is only rational that anyone they try to convince of the validity of that evidence to scrutinize same evidence. it should be noted that most who claim to have evidence to support extraordinary/fringe beliefs are always shy about coming forth with such evidence.
So a skeptic is willing to review any evidence that supports a belief. People who claim to have faith (faith:belief without evidence) can pretty much have a pass on anything they believe.
Oh good grief...
All I did was point out the Sangs have a glimmer of hope in the scientific world.
How dare I point out the latest scientific facts. I love the way these posts dodge around the central issue that all Humans have different digestive tracts with different bacteria.
Above all, if one cannot raise these issues on a 'Vampire site' then where is free speech ?
Experiments are still being done so here is a novel idea, lets wait and see what they discover.
As for flip-flopping, its good to have contradictions within, it furthers debate and thought.
"A lie can often be used to tell the truth."
On a Topic such as this there is always far too much controversy for the pro and the con evidence.Neither can be fully trusted
Exi... perhaps you weren't aware of this, but this is an actual Internet thread, not a conversation; you can't deny what you stated here about and get away with it. We can actually scroll up and read your latest entries.
Anyone can simply scroll up and see for themselves that the Sang topic involving the blood injection study on mice ceased to be discussed after May 21. After that, you and others began defending faith and belief, instead, when I pointed out that blood injection is not "vampiric" blood ingestion. And specifically, your last two entries were in condemnation of Science in support of Belief and chastising Dabbler for wearing "blinkers" for defending the Scientific Method.
Are we up to speed, now? Wanna try again?
That is healthy discernment. As well as a humble position. When those that hold the beliefs, and claim to have answers can't agree on anything, how indeed do they expect any skeptic to bother with it. Even sympathetic parties.
Pseudoscience is very different than credible science in that they cherry pick data that flatters their often sensational hypothesis. As I said Skeptics are willing to review evidence, and data. Cynics are apt to dismiss an idea outright. I find a lot of believers in extraordinary things are cynical of scientific discovers that expose formerly claimed evidence that alleged to support such extraordinary beliefs.
"eksistentialisme er en pik"
My previous post was a response to Sangs Post. As I understood their statement.
But here is something you can't avoid... If you simply don't "believe in vampires" than why are you on a site "for vampires"?
It is also a Goth site. A Sci-fi site, and a Power Punk Site. But there aren't any people that claim to be time travelers.. aliens, or super heroes.
Plus while there are those who claim to be vampires here. It is obvious that even they are divided into factions. If not for the skeptics, they would turn on each other, similar to the way various denominations of established religions do.
So until those who claim to be vampires can reach a consensus, and stop the infighting, they are not going to be taking seriously at all.
It is very telling when these people give so much flack to those who are simply roleplayers, or Lifestylers . Definitely an example of the adage. "People tend to berate others for what they see in themselves."
Look the debate over who is or is not a vampire is moot in my opinion because neither side, pro or con can prove anything. It is known that 30 percent of the worlds population can drink quite a bit of blood without the emetic effect. Now I didn't just come up with that, The documentary done on Cannibalism is where it was cited. It's been awhile since it was on but I believe it was done by National Geographic. How did they get that statistic I don't know because I don't remember but anyone who says they drink large amounts of blood is more than likely lying. They will throw it up. It's mostly water anyway so I have never understood the appeal being more than a mental one. I am polite enough not to go off about it and insult people, many of whom I know are not mentally ill. These people have no sexual fascination with it or anything else and the idea that just because they use a syringe invalidates their claims is slightly inane. We all have opinions and those who have them, many, speak from personal experience. It's not scientific and I don't think the topic is of interest to most scientists anyway who assume like a lot of people that those who use the word vampire to describe something they don't quite understand means their delusional. Some people are, some people role play but there is a core of people who are not like that. I'm old so I personally don't care what anyone believes. I'm not on a crusade to debunk or prove the claims.
I never understood why some are so driven they get on a tirade about people being liars or role players. Prove it but you can't it is just pieced together conjecture, kind of like religious groups who take something from one place and put something from another to make a point which is suspect at best. My opinion is vampires do exist but not like stories or movies, folklore etc. They are not a type of being but it's rather a state of being more than anything else where people believe they must do certain things to stay healthy whether right or wrong. Some put occult/metaphysical ties to it but I believe that is a choice people make due to interests rather than a direct connection, but I can't make an unequivocal claim. A lot of people have the same characteristics and they're somewhat different than what people think of as "vampire."
I don't see the debate really other than for the sake of being offensive to others you don't even know or have no idea what they may be going through. It really doesn't invalidate anything. There are some really smart people in the US vampire community as I'm sure Upir knows since he asks to be friends with many of them in FB or use to, none of whom have any idea who he is. I have asked many of them and get the same answer. He asked to be friends, so they said yes. It's none of my business why. If he has been reading he knows people are adamant and like any cultural group they are not above bickering, just like what is going on in this thread; difference of opinion. That's not a bad thing really as long as you don't take it personally. It's okay to talk on the topic but if you don't have a frame of reference really other than opinion how can it be viable to ridicule? In other words, jumping over that fence to the other side of things and understanding why people are saying what they are saying, disregarding those who like to emulate the fictional end of things, then how can you comment with authority? One of the best sources of information is Joseph Laycock. Sorry for the windy post.
I think what peeves skeptics is that believers want society to be excited by their claims. Yet even when they gain the attention of skeptics they fall short of substantiating their position. To repeat the cliche "Vampires exist, but not like lore, and Hollywood depict them." only goes so far. People want substance, something that can be cross referenced, and read to determine its merit. Which is why I respect Upir. Weather or not I subscribe to his presentation I at least respect him for his research.
Even here Doru brings something to the table, which is remarkable. Again weather or not I subscribe to it, I am able to reference it, and if i opt to cross reference the info presented.
I can go online and see various feuds (very public feuds) play out between M. Balanger, and the Kuaate (sic) House. Both claiming the other has stolen their title to promote themselves. Both denouncing each other.. ect. So for an outsider to see that.. even someone ready to subscribe to the belief it gets confussing as to just what they are supposed to believe, or subscribe to.. fearing they will be accused of being WRONG! So simply put Why Even Bother?
Another thing is how people approach science. When science appears to support a pet belief, then believers embrace science. When science disregards alleged evidence presented by believers science gets attacked.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney
I suppose there is some truth in that, embracing the science that fits.
This is a natural reaction, a universal counter to those who use the majority of science to destroy the faith of others and undermine their beliefs.
I must say I find it a breath of fresh air when the boot is on the other foot.
Here are two more links, 1, How blood rejuvenates skin.
2, How the vampire community larger than one would have guessed.
The proffessor is on this site, he agrees, Vamps are neither bad nor sad, but his research continues.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10807478/Vampire-therapy-could-reverse-ageing-scientists-find.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/academic-in-wales-claims-uk-has-subculture-of-15000-vampires--and-launches-academic-study-to-assess-their-satisfaction-with-life-9448319.html
Ah.. Slow down their Mr. Happy. If you failed to notice Vampire Therapy is in quotations. Meaning it is tongue and cheek. It is very obvious what they are talking about. Transfusions. it is all in your interpretation, and extrapolation to drag that into supporting your far fetching ideals. You really should read into these things before you thrust out your chest and proclaim "AH Ha!" So Sorry Try Again!
No one is trying to prevent others from living in faith or from living their lives according to their own beliefs. As long as you're not hurting others, science doesn't really give a crap what you think.
However, hiding behind nothing but belief and trying to accuse others of "violating your rights" (as many folks have claimed about a good many things), does not mean what you believe is real, or even justified. You can believe whatever the heck you want, that doesn't make it real nor does it mean other people are mean and oppressive when they take you to task by pointing out the obvious real world facts of the matter.
Science is a method, a tool for determining what things are and how they work, nothing more. Science advances based on empirical evidence. When someone poses a theory, that theory must then be backed up by evidence otherwise it must be refined or tossed out all together. Getting upset because a theory either has no evidence or only circumstantial and shaky support only goes to show that the theory itself is likely invalid.
Everything (and I do mean everything, including whatever god, gods, or supernatural stuff you believe in) is still formed of energy and is still part of the universe as a whole (including multiple universes, dimensions etc.). And because of that, everything can either be explained and understood as fact (or at least very likely) or can be explained away as nothing but nonsense. This may take a few minutes to do, or centuries of study, but it can be done. Simply saying "we don't understand this thus it must be...." is one of the most basic and obvious logical fallacies around.
Also worth mentioning is that science is not out to undermine beliefs. They are however ready to dispute pseudoscience, and scrutinize evidence alleged to support beliefs. Beliefs are one thing. But when a group presents themselves as being factual, then it is as the saying goes "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." So in such cases the claimants need to put up or shut up.
Plus your opening statement clearly shows how you tried to tuck my post into your convenience. However all you did was make my case for me by following with a failed endorsement of a study that anyone desperate enough would pick offline and link for the very purpose of supporting their belief.
The two studies don't mean anything at all with regard to the theory of real vampirism.
The first deals with injecting younger healthy blood into a diseased patient. It stands to reason that the healthy blood would help the sick person, at least for a time. Vampirism however has nothing to do with injecting blood (which, if done improperly, could be a sure fire way of catching any and every disease no to man).
Vampires drink blood, as in, it goes in the mouth, down the throat, and into the stomach. Once there, blood completely breaks down. The only health benefit would be those similar to eating a bit of steak in the sense that blood contains vitamins & minerals.
The second is not studying the "realness" of vampires. Rather, it's looking to study the lifeforbiddens & mental states of those who self-profess to be "vampires" - which could be anyone at all who enjoys taking a sip of blood from time to time. The act of drinking blood or the desire to isn't new or supernatural. Blood, like flesh, has a taste and carries nutrients. People have been drinking blood (primarily animal) for thousands of years because of those nutrients, especially in harsh climates.
None of it makes anyone special, powerful, or non-human.
I simply can't understand how some people bash science in one breath, and attempt to enlist science articles as support for their beliefs in the next breath. That to me is nonsense.
Xzavier... your past two posts were genius! They exactly encapsulate my thoughts. And, dabbler, the point you make in your last post was genius, as well, and perfectly expresses my own frustration at how those dissing Science in support of belief constantly try to enfranchise Science to do so.
Excellent posts and points raised by both!!!
And that brings us back to the heart of the matter: Either we view Vampirism from the standpoint of trying to understand the underlying historical events and perspectives and circumstances to attempt identifying the actual truths (if such exist) to explain who and what the original Slavic Vampire might have truly been... or we simply ignore any such intellectual pursuit and simply allow ourselves to be blown about by the fictional winds of change and the myriad beliefs arising out of such and exploited by psychics, channelers, mediums and vampire roleplayers and "l i f e s t y l e r s", etc., for their own vainglorious purposes.
For the latter ... Vampirism is most certainly nothing but nonsense because all such is based on fictions and their attendant beliefs. However... not so the former! :)
Vampirism is used very loosely these days along with vampirologist which is only starting to be offered at colleges but I don't know why. I personally don't try to mix mythology with beliefs but on the premise being offered here by some it would nullify the idea of religion.
I never understood how some could believe so fervently in a religious idea that really pushed the boundaries of credulity. The most prominent one in the US is exactly like that. Yet people will debunk vampirism as delusional but not religious beliefs.
Its very impersonal to debunk something you have never experienced and accuse others of lying. There are role players and there are lifestylers but the phrases bandied about by most are wrong. The terminology usually inappropriately applied. This is a defensive thread when someone puts up Vampirism is nonsense. This being based on the negative from the get go.
Mr. De Vere (the stuff Doru posted) did research well over twenty years and his conclusions are somewhat different than that of Upir. Why would that be? There are some similarities but they're minor. Why assume the only creatures as described were in Eastern Europe? There are many old tales in Ireland and other places. They had a different language so they aren't going to use the term vampire because it's not Irish. Other places would be the same. I don't see why the claim of this type of being can go strictly to Eastern Europe other than the use of the word vampire.
It's an interesting topic for sure but the skeptics will be that and the believers will be that and nothing is going to change that outcome I'm afraid, lol.
And it will always be ambiguous at best once it cross from roleplaying, lore, and fantasy. With that said as a skeptic I look for those who bring the most to the table, preferable something that isn't rife with analogy.
Xzav, Dabs, Upir, whilst I understand your prejudice I cannot accept you logic, or lack there of.
Here you are banging the drum for your own reasoning and yet you are so unwilling to accept anybody elses.
Upir has his eye focussed firmly on the sexuality of the historical vampire. Dabs believes posers and fake mediums are behind every Sand posting.
Xzav wants every experiment photographed, documented, repeated and signed by Einstein.
Not once have I heard an apology.
You have all side stepped the central issue. It is now quite possible, that something else is going on in blood. Be it, the 'life particle" this new C11 protein, or a combination of factors.
Experiments have for the 1 st time shown rejuvenation of blood vessels, brain matter and skin. This is something all three of you have attacked over many years on VR.
Lastly, faith, if faith is indeed linked to dark energy and dark matter then these current experiments will never reveal the mechanisms. At least that is my guess, we shall see.
Do you ever read, or listen to anything you post? It is rife with assumptions, and and baseless statements. You fail in your petty linking of articles so you resort to ad hominem. Desperately trying to spin what others present against your glaringly obvious fallacies. It won't change what has been said regarding your currently standing presentations. Adding allusions to more "evidence" is ridiculous. I invite you to present something in-depth on any of the topics you refereed to in the tail end of this last post. You're all over the place, spouting nonsense, as only a desperate individual does. You can't back away any further.
Prejudice are you serious? Man I have never seen anyone so far away from really as you are. The intent of this thread has become very clear. Your agenda is not playing out as you had intended it to. It should have been a journal entry to begin with. it is telling that you slip articles and more argon as it progresses. A clear indication that you are making this up as you go along. Hoping that if you throw enough ice on the arena that someone will falter and lend you an apparent victory, or what ever.
"Not once have I heard an apology.
You have all side stepped the central issue. It is now quite possible, that something else is going on in blood. Be it, the 'life particle" this new C11 protein, or a combination of factors.
Experiments have for the 1 st time shown rejuvenation of blood vessels, brain matter and skin. This is something all three of you have attacked over many years on VR."
Oh man have you lost your marbles? WTF?
Please by all means show anything to support this wacky paragraph. Apology? Oh my.. Oh my..You have blurred the line Exie' you have flipped. You're touched!
"This is something you have attacked over many years on VR"
Come now, how is this? It has never been a topic.
Your bulking the thread. Mucking the forum! it is just so much more obvious now.
It is obvious you are very delusional, and thinking, and projecting incidents that have never been. This has happened before with you, you and your
"I predicted the Jersey Shore, remember?"
As if it common knowledge.
well for the record all the crap you mentioned has never been a topic of forums. I really have to ask you to actually present something for these last topics you rattle off. Just see see how your scattered brain links them to your desperate attempt to make a case that isn't even clear to begin with. Has it occurred to you that you are scattered and unintelligible? That all you do is make shit up as you go along. Do you think people can't tell that when you fail to make your case that you turn on those making a case against you?
Ah so this is one part of the rant you spliced into your rant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-27282832
As already pointed out this is clearly in regards to transplants, and injections. Not ingestion! Got it?
Now hows about making with the sources for this C-11 "protein".
Since you seem to insist it is already common knowledge.
Man you really fail at attaching articles to your house of cards.
Faiths do not need to be validated by science. Science is science and faith is faith. Science is a faith in itself. When faiths collide, there will be nothing but chaos. I can see where this discussion is going. It's just becoming a matter of linguistics. If you're a believer, good for you. If you're not, then, well, good for you, too. :)
Science is not faith. Faith is defined as belief without evidence. science is all about empirical evidence and the method to establish facts. Science is rational. Beliefs are often irrational, and superstition to boot.
For further reading on the reason why.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/02/18/is-science-faith-based/#.U4aHQCiiU2Q
All I said was "That bit of Halibut was good enough for Jehova"
Then I was stoned, by scientists who claim I am dellusional.
Odd that because the independents reading this thread would probably realise that the miracle protein "GDF 11" and other compounds in plasma have yet to be fully evaluated by Stanford.
I might run a Poll on that, "Psychosis - a fact or question that an individual gets out of proportion and just cannot let go"
Here is a link that may help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIaORknS1Dk
SAY WHAT? You're obviously piling crap on top of your wrecked former argument.
"and other compounds in plasma have yet to be fully evaluated by Stanford."
That doesn't mean ANYTHING. There are countless proteins and other compounds in the human body that we are just now learning about and plenty more we know nothing about. That is NOT proof of anything, let alone proof of real vampirism.
It boggles the mind, why is it so blasphemous to ask for actual evidence? Come on dude.
But, since you won't elaborate on your "miracle proteins", I'll indulge the good folks here, especially because I get the feeling you don't have a clue of what you're talking about.
You mentioned "C11". This is what it is: C11 is a specific protein that is considered a "homeobox". Homeobox proteins are any roughly 180-base pair long proteins which affect anatomical regulation & development of animals, plants, and fungus. It encodes homeodomain folds which can then bind to DNA and plays a large role in cell division.
Homeobox proteins were discovered in 1983. C11 is technically called HOXC11, or Homeobox protein Hox-C11 which is encoded by the HOXC11 gene. There are actually 4 main HOX-homeobox gene clusters, HOX A, B, C, and D. It is found throughout various human tissues. Diseases associated with HOXC11 include neuroblastoma (usually a childhood cancer), and pancreatic cancer. It doesn't have any special magical properties.
Then you brought up GDF 11. GDF 11 stands for Growth differentiation factor 11 and it is encoded by the GDF11 gene. It plays an important role in modulating nerve growth and is also part of the process that controls the expression of C11 and thus pattern/growth regulation. Among the primary nerve tissues that it regulates are: the retina, olfactory (aka smelling nerves), and the spinal cord.
GDF 11 has strong similarities with that of myostatin (GDF-8) and belongs to the "Transforming growth factor beta superfamily" which was also discovered in 1983.
Both of these do their "work" during early fetal development and are just 2 of a host of other proteins which govern the formation of a healthy living baby.
dabbler.. I agree.. I am biased though.. we are pretty much besties here on VR.. but anyways, I agree with what you're saying. I say it all the time. Because we have those that claim to be 300 years old, Sired by "Lestat" or some other fucking ridiculous important vampire name, people are never going to take other's seriously. I've never claimed to have any supernatural ability. Here is the best that I can explain it. I am a human being with the ability to manipulate feelings and energy. In laments terms, all I really am, is empathic. I "identify with" a vampire, if that makes any sense to you. However, it's the people that claim to have some supernatural ability that screw it up for the HLV... People such as myself, Michelle Belanger, etc.
Right o' I already brought my case about such individuals to the thread. moderate believers are one thing. It is those who introduce unfounded claims of evidence that are on my radar, the ones I challenge to clarify, and verify themselves.
Yes, I know that.. But I'm thinking maybe the others, such as Existentialism did not know :)