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there is many theories on this book, i would like to here what the peoples theory is , on this book there are also many versions on this i have to one is version by h.p.lovecraft. # 455 of the 700 printed and i have the other by simon , i would like to see what everyone thinks of these books i have read them both and think they are both cheesy.

Have you ever read anything else by Simon? His works on the Gates of the Necronomicon, The Book of Dead Names, The necronomicon spellbook, and Papal Magic- which references the nature of reality in the back in regards to the necronomicon.

It is a very potent text if you take the time to understand the mechanics of how it works. It is not made so that it is easily understood. You have to cross reference your sources like any proper mage. You have to meditate on your reflections and seek out the parallels of this work and by what means such things can be made useful. You can even rewrite and adapt it, if you understand the mechanics of Sumerian mythos sytem. The Avestian texts, and old eastern systems and alchemy also cement the theory in a time when communication between the cultures was difficult at best.

It is only silly for those who don't understand there is no way for even Lovecraft to have an understanding of the Eastern forms of Yoga and Taoism that are present in the book. They were not made known in the western world till the 1970s even then you have to go back to the original sources which requires understanding for the way of life. As the people back then viewed religion not only as a tool that helped them in their daily life, but as a structure for how they interacted with everything down to their crops.

You just have to spend time in devoted study to the work to be able to yield from it. The same way one could call any bible silly, or anything that goes unexamined.

The Necronomicon was made up by H.P.Lovecraft and used in many other stories and movies.It never existed,even though alot of people think it is a real book.

Thats MY opinion.

Dark.

Nice opinion, but have you ever done research on it to validate your opnion?

Lovecraft ghost wrote a story for Houudinni called imprisoned with the pharohs. It had many elements from the book of the dead and was well done.

inferanel, this is very true, no i haven't read anything else by simon i shall look to find more things written by the author, the way it was written and the reviews but other occult authors stated it was cheesy, and written by someone who can copy and paste to try and make a success of a dead art

Infernalmage, anyone could write a book and call it the Necronomicon. The one made up by H.P. Lovecraft and referred to in so many stories and movies, however, is fictional. For one thing, in every story the book is different. The title, and it's reputation, have become so popular that there are about a thousand books out there claiming to be the 'real' one.

Vashti

This is correct, like there are thousands of differnt types of bibles out there and their supporters claim they are the real one;

The book of Mormon
The King James version
The Tenach
The Torah
The Quran
The International Bible

You have to in the end, in making an educated decision, follow what you have found through process and research, not what you go by on forced dogma and fanatical opnion.

So it may be very true the H.P. Lovecraft had the idea, as well as the Simon version, and the Mathers version.

From my study the SImon version is a complete grimoire with process and initiation rites, as well as needed spells to function in this system. It is not a crap book of spells, or system. It works, and works well. Better in most cases then things that have been since translated.

I do not claim that the title Necronomicon, the flesh bound book of the dead is the true book of the dead. I feel that would be the Flesh bound versions of the Satanic Bible that have made their way across the centuries. (refer to the For the Satanist Thread, Catalunas' Posts). But the work Known as the Necronomicon, as written by simon is the most accurate for the rituals based off of advanced Taoist initiations, as well as Alchemy, and Semetic Demonology.

I have a copy of the Simon Necronomicon, and copy of the spell book, as well as his Dead Names.
I have actually found some similarities between one of the Goddesses and Bram Stoker's Lair of the White Worm.
Is his version the real one? Who knows.

If the book was an actual book...why would of all movies Jason Goes to Hell :The Final Friday have it in the Vorhees home.The Evil Dead series uses it,as well as many other horror related movies.

If you follow the theories of chaos magic then a book such as the necronomicon could work for you (even though it's title is an homage to fiction).

The Simon Necronomicon is in fact dubious in origin both for being an amalgam of multiple metaphysical roots and rituals previously published or printed in other books and groups...and for claiming the name Necronomicon and claiming to be a translation of Abdul Alhazred (who was a fictional character). The title Necronomicon was never used before Lovecraft.

I have argued against these works on principle because they claim to be something they are not, however, whether a grimoire based in reality or fiction works for you could well just be a question of how much energy you put into the given book or spell.

As I was once reminded.

It matters not the source of the spell, so long as you can give it life.

Spells are just ways to focus the energy. As for the ones written in Sumerian I get into my work better after I have translated them to or from such, addressing these forces. However the system is good for an initiation as I made use of it in the Rite of transformation that is posted here in VR.

True. And one must remember that even though the title is fiction, and the spells or ritual cannibalized from other sources, who knows how accurate or good those original sources were.

But for a believer of chaos magical theory, you could very well write your own spells from a Harry Potter book...there are no rules.

Side note off topic sorry....when i get bored i get ahold of rituals from the harry potter books, greek and roman myths, as well as rpg rituals...rewrite them, and they work just fine :)

I always wondered if someone had gone that route yet. So then you agree that the Necronomicon is not a genuine historical book but a recently published work that may contain some ritual that's been cannibalized from other books and uses the Necronomicon name to sell copies.

So if the source doesn't matter, is there really any reason to use a book at all? Could you not just make it up off the top of your head? And is there any way for you to tell if the spells in the 'Necronomicon' are really anything but a bunch of mumbo jumbo that you have caused to work through your faith alone, like the silly rituals you've found in children's books and fantasy games? (I don't mean this to sound offensive, I just can't think of any better way to put it)

Is what are you saying, that the source, the spell, and the ritual are meaningless? That they are just a focus, and that with enough willpower they could become unnecessary altogether?

well thats new on me that it was a real book thanks for the up date

Vashti,

Real magick is accomplished with out silly words, or a ritual or spell format. Real Magick occurs when the Will is made manifest. No where in any description of magic other then a means of causing change by focusing the will does it say magick only happens by a spell.

Magick- is the focused willed changed as effected in the envrionment

spell- is the use of medium or verse to effect a focus for the willed manifestation of magick

Vashti - the principle behind why a book like a fictional Necronomicon would work and why one could make spells or ritual from (yes) anything isn't that the book or item is useless, it's that the value is dependent upon the user. It's a focus and a focus for one person is just a story to another. So the principle idea is that if you can get your mind/body/spirit/energy focused with a book that may be fictional in origin, the results could still be positive. It does however take a certain suspension of disbelief or at minimum, a huge understanding of your own untapped potential. It's also the reason why some folks feel that after enough time or practice, focuses become less important overall.

Impressive work, and research, most enlightning. Some work are simply art, some are for knowledge some are for greater path, this work and the other ones made by Simon are it seems for knowledge and to allow us to stop and think inside ourselves of what are our pre-existing ideas and beleif.

Who is Simon?

The author's penname when he published the necronomicon series and Papal Magic

Spells work through a manipulation of energy. If you use a book like the necronomicon to follow a ritual for that energy manipulation it can work even though the book may be fiction. My verdict on the book is still out I used to own a copy and practiced from it successfully. However I have heard from an unconfirmed source that Simon may have been a pseudonymn for H.P. Lovecraft. Also when I burned my copy after I quit practicing it burned green and didnt leave any trace behind that it ever exsisted. Most books leave large pieces of ash and rarely burn completely without a lot of help.

If invoking the old ones, than the Necro is for you, though it is only a lesson on how to communicate with the circle of Cthulu. However, the spell of the undead invocation would work if it were complete. Though, I very much doubt if any true magik's author would publish something of that chaotic proportion. Maybe if one were to now how to get the writing to appear on the blank pages, one would learn a thing or two.

I am not saying which version this should be done on. But I think Infernal has an idea.

With regards
Soulshroude

Now this gets more difficult to agree with. "summoning the old ones". The entire Cthulu mythos is the fiction of Lovecraft. So that makes summoning them a little on the tough side.

I understand the philosophical idea of using fiction work as a focus for your mind and your energy. In that respect, it's a legitimate system of metaphysics. However, even though InfernalMage, for example, may use Harry Potter books as a focus sometimes, he's obviously not actually under the impression that he can summon Valdemort. Using fiction work as a focus for your mind or energy should still involve separating the real and the unreal, the fact and the fiction.

**Infernalmage** So have you done observable magic? I don't mean to sound flippant just that everytime I hear someone talk of magic (and I mean the king that is without doubt "Magic") it doesn't quite meet the expectations. I mean if Cris Angel or any other street performer could do "real" magic then this place would be rockin' (again no offense meant)

Maximus - I tend to think that the sort of magic you're thinking of either doesn't exist or is so rare as to be observed by few and by accident.

Most ritual and spell magic would leave the observing skeptic with the thoughts that either someone is fooling you or someone is fooling themselves. All too often, effects are more a sense of feeling or something that you think you saw but aren't sure seconds later. To this day, when I look back on strange experiences, I don't know if they were real or just real to me. It has left me very skeptical myself but with some sense that perception can be a large part of magical 'success'. Sort of like walking a border between the lands of belief and disbelief.

Is there just one Necronomicon and it's that this book is known by many names or are there many books of the dead?

Don't know to much on this except that it's really Dark. Where can I go to read more on this subject ?

Maximus - Not saucy at all...I agree that stories of someone trying to do something and failing to prove it are everywhere. There's not a case of proven metaphysics in any scientific library or record. It's currently still a question of faith and perception. That will make any search you intend to undergo for this difficult if not disappointing. But plenty of folks who practice ritual or spell magic find that the results are good enough for them to continue in their practice. That's an issue where proving it to someone else isn't important to them.

Unigon - The Necronomicon has been published multiple times with different text each time. There are many books that claim to be the original. The original however, really doesn't exist because it was a 'character' or 'prop' invented for a fictional series of stories by the horror/sci-fi writer H.P. Lovecraft.

Books of the Dead however are in many ancient cultures (Egyptian, Tibetan, etc) but aren't books of magic so much as ways of practicing or learning what you will encounter when you die. More of a religious book that a grimoire and these were never referred to as "Necronomicons" before Lovecraft.

Trinity,

You should seek out the online PDF files from Sacred-texts.com (might have to do a google search) but that site has had the original version of the vampire codex for around 4 years. Long before the one that published has been around. So its got alot of really yummy bits of information.

Ungion- There are several works called the necronomicon, some are just books referencing the history of the Mad Arab, or what have you. But in my course of mention it is a little black book with the glyph on the Cover and its the Simon edition. I have seen the one by Mathers, and wasn't really impressed by it, but was unable to give it a full course of study, all I know is the viable system in the Simon.

Maximus- Heh, well that would for you to have been in observence of. There have been events which have put the skeptics in their place that occured when I was around. But there is also what is an act of hubris, paradox being reconciled when you attempt the impossible. If you attempt something infront of anyone then you have fight their beliefs on the nature of reality, whose vibrations go against your current. Thus causing your work to fail. There are times when you can do something so obvious as be undeniable and those make good stories, but leaves the one being told wondering if it was all a lie. So I will say, I have had my moments, and others have had theirs. But nothing is ever what it seems when it comes to magick. However- magick being a general term to define which currently has no name to the force which causes the direct manipulation of the environment, be it vibration, energy, the force focusing on the quantum particles which allows for the conscious manipulation, and observation of the manipulation. Then No, and Yes.

Felix-

In regards to your reference to me using harry potter reference. Thats correct I have no means to summon up the dark god-force that embodies both set and apophis as Voldemort does. (yes that particular reference could be the combination of any particular god of evil with a serpent god....Ahriman and Aeshma [the black dragon/serpent and the evil mind]...or Tiamat [the maiden of life-thus being a dragon whose body formed the earth as the earth is what provides us life] however the symbolism is an essay all its own) The system that J. K. Rowiling applys is that energy focused through a medium will effectivly cause change. I have written record of wands that I have a mind to design that by in creasing their efficacy you fill with stones, herbs, or some other catalyst for a refined alchemic manipulation of the environment a few years before those books came out. There is also reference to a Dark mark. There is a portugese Vampiric order called the Kementic Order of the Aset-Ka. The earlier reference to the serpent would be accurate as Kem is Egypt, Aset is Isis, and Ka is the spiritual body that survives beyond death. So having said that, the system by which her work is based is an interpertation of some folk-lore, Necro-thaumaturgy, as well as being able to focus energy through a medium in this case a staff or wand more effectivly by means of employing an alchemic medium to advance the change. As for her spoken syllabic words by employing a specific motion to her characters wand waving, with speech, allows that particular energy to manifest when that particualar motion or spell is done, just like any occult trance, or gnosis state.

As well as your reference to other books of the dead, they do have reference for the path that the dead will encounter but they also act as spells of resurection and establishing of the Ka, or spirit force, Bardo for the Tibetans. The body of light which survives beyond death. They reference in both the Adze, the means by which resurrection is achieved for dead matter, can be referenced further in the Papyrus of Ani, as well as Gates of the Necronomicon by Simon, published 07.

Infernalmage

May I ask please, what do you do with your magic which benifits you in a material way ?

Caravall.

No. My work is mine. I don't care to offer it up as some cheap party trick to amuse you. Or anyone else. Such a statement, is flat out RUDE.

I speak from experience, that should be enough for you. I don't care what alterior motive you have in asking such. But you are neither a friend, nor an enemy who would suffer. So I have no obligation to you. Go back to your corner.

Infernalmage

I seem to have touched a nerve.

Nothing about my question was ever intended to be rude, if you did not wish to answer ......all you had to do was say so.

Caravall. I do not take kindly to such statements.

They show nothing. Yes a nerve has been touched, I dare say I try to ignore you as much as possible, but there comes a time when your posts just irk that little part of me that just says, stupid stupid posting. So I respond with my own breed of what i find humorous.

So no, to you, but its also having fun with how I say no. Which allows for a style in the rejection. Comedy reminds us of such. This is one world we all share, but sometimes its nice to be able to say things that make us laugh at ourselves and a situation. I fear you take things far too seriously if you felt the need to reply. But yes, this is my explination. And as for the discussion, this should have been handled in Private messages. We have disrupted the otherwise good flow this thread had going. Which was also rude.

So to those who read this, Other then Caraval, I give my applogy.

Put away your fears Infernalmage, from this moment on I shall view you with all the humor you are deserving off.

I give my apologies if anyones flow has been interupted

I think the point here is that those who believe see little need to prove and those who attempt to prove for no other reason - fail.

I don't really see the thorn in the paw for here for InfernalMage but I tend to be far easier going I think on these subjects. Sufficed it to say that I believe the Necronomicon, the Mad Arab, the Nameless City, Cthulu mythos and all related Lovecraft work, characters, props and places to be fiction. How that's used (entertainment, ritual magic, spiritual guide, etc.) is entirely up the reader.

I have never seen the desired results achieved with the necromoicron.

**FelixFelix** truer words hard were spoken. Quite right, like you, I believe that an intregal part of ANY faith is that kernel of faith. If you seek something and find it, then your belief was justified to you. It need not be justified to any else, for faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen, to make a quote. Bravo.

**Infernal** Its ok, I understand and respect, as I think everyone here does, you right to believe as you see fit. Any element of magic, religion or somple will has a measure of faith applied to make it unique to the individual. Yours happen to be magic. I meant no disrespect nor do I to FelixFelix or any other who chooses to follow that path.

They are, useless... Try Aleister Crowleys book of the law for a better start, if u like, move on to magic book 4 parts 1-4.

For one, Aleister Crowley can bite my candlestick, and for two...Azathoth and Yogsathoth may be laughing behind the stars at this discussion.

as many others have said, there is no real book the necronomicon...fun though...333

http://www.geocities.com/soho/7294/nec14.htm

interesting discussion this is. As far as the book that H.P lovecraft wrote, he himself said it was fictional I believe. Now I have a friend of mine who went into trances and began to see the gates for himself and drew them out in his trances, He saw something that scared him and well he never finished. He gave them to me as safe keeping to keep it out of the wrong hands. Mind you the symbols on the pages are quite archane nothing seen in what books of the necronomicon that are on bookshelves.

your friend should finish. Its only gonna get worse for him, if he doesn't finish. Leaving a journey unfinished will lead to a loss of mind and self, you begin a journey like that to remake yourself. IF you leave the process unfinished it is waisted effort.

is there such thing as a real book? i have never once picked up a book that was not written by someone. this makes them all fabrications. even a modern newspaper contains untruths and speculation. Lovecraft made up the name Necronomicon, but based the idea on "real" books such as the Key of Solomon and the grimoirs of Eliphas Levi. the idea was that all the books of magic written in the 17th century etc were based on a much older book that was written long before. he called it the necronomicon - the book of dead names - for want of a better title. there could well be a "real" necronomicon out there, but it will not be called that.

excellent view point.

Here is a website i found about the nnecronomicon, it has some interesting information on it...


The Necronomicon

Stabb and Karnstein - I have to admit that you raise an interesting point about the history behind the history. There are elements of real mythos woven into his stories but they have been changed greatly both for originality and out of artistic liscence to further 'horrify' the reader. Each story of the Cthulu mythos would be a heavily diluted mix with perhaps but a drop or two of historical significance and not really something to be used as an actual reference material.

I always thought it was a kind of 'Book of the Dead' like in Egyptian folklore...

I think that's because a lot of people in recent years took to calling the Egyptian book of the dead or the Tibetan book of the dead "the Necronomicon". It was never originally called that.

H.P. Lovecraft wrote fictional stories. In them, he mentions (for the first time) a book called the Necronomicon and occasionally wrote a couple fictional passages of it in his story. He never wrote much more than that because he always felt that anything he could have written would never have been as scary as what we imagine was inside the book. It's the first usage of the word Necronomicon and he gave this book a history in his stories. Written by the mad arab...bound in flesh...etc. That is all his fiction.

Later, people have capitalized on the fame of the title and put out their own books called "the Necronomicon" knowing that those interested in the fame of the title might well buy their work...these books however were not the fabled Necronomicon because as I said, it never really existed.

who excatly made it

H.P.Lovecraft made the title up in his fiction.

Later other people (including the Simon mentioned above) used the title on their own works which were often just canibalized spells and ritual from sumeria or norse mythology and then substituting cthulu gods or symbology from Lovecraft's fiction stories.

I would just like to add my opinions.

I believe that there is a lot that has to be said about the necronomicon, and although I accept that a great many believe it to be a work of fiction from the mind of an exceptional writer, what i must ask is from where did he get his influences?

All writers draw influence and inspiration from somewhere, be it a local tale, another book by a great author, or just their own experiences.

I would also like to say that although the names may well be incorrect, there are ancient ones who would indeed answer to the names "Ctulu/Cthulu" (the lord of the deep), "Nyarlathotep" (the great goat of the woods and even "Azag-thoth" (the great one). However, I must also state that even though these creatures/entities do indeed exist, could they exist due to the fact that so many people truly believed in their existence, or were they indeed in existence beforehand?

I believe that if you truly believe in something as a god like entity/creature, and enough people share your belief, that through sheer force of will and belief, you actually give that being a force of life.

Mener

One could just as easily argue that something might answer to the call of those names because it wants an audience and not because it actually is that being.

There's a lot of belief in the idea that the invisible wants nothing more that to be visible. That the spirit world is attached to us because our attention gives it energy or power. In that respect, your belief may not bring something into being so much as convince something else to answer to it's call and pretend.

Let us not forget that according to Lovecraft, just seeing part or piece of some of these creatures and old ones is enough to so psychologically scar a person that they become insane. Anyone who claims to have seen an old one is therefore supposed to be in a rubber room.

Yes there is always that arguement indeed Felix.

I would never attest to seeing one of the old ones whether they actually exist or not. However, i have read a few versions of the necronomicon, and have even read the notes that crowley made on the subject, and even he thought there was more to it than a simple story by a brilliant author.

I used to have the simon version and crowley addition to the simon version.and have read these 2.5 times....however, i didn't complete my third reading and am not sure why, I just stopped one day and have never gone back to them.

I have seen a great many different books claiming to be a shard or full copy of the necronomicon and have even seen an arabic version.

The arabic version was likely the one also called Al Azif...it's a novelty book and doesn't actually translate to anything. There's another one that was put out first that doesn't even use a real language just nonsense script.

Good research Night Blossom. I was gonna post that info.

There never was a real necromonicon. Those that believe there was are wrong.

personally, they are the funniest books i have ever read

Wiki searches are No basis for Informed and reliable concepts. But then you shouldn't believe everything you read,

You should make the decision for yourself.

I'm so glad someone else brought up the wikipedia article, because I was just getting ready to do that myself.

I must comment on the "invoking the old ones" reply.... It has been my experience that it takes very little to invoke actual life into any "presence" that one cares to acknowledge in their own minds as being real.

For example: I am friends with a few people who build haunted houses. They do their best to meld actual history in with the story behind their creation to give their haunt some kind of substance.

Most times, however, what they end up doing is creating so much "belief" in their fictitious stories that an actual energy presence (and an actual physical haunt) is sensed by not only the patrons, but by the workers as well.

I cannot help but think that the very same methodology can lend substance to the practice of "invoking the old ones" as outlined in the necronomicon.

I think that it is possible to put so much of your own energy into any ritual that it is possible to invoke even fictitious manifestations which can be very real for you, or anyone else who believes in them.

Just my worthless 2cents,

--pookahchu

I won't deny the fact that it is possible to use the Necronomicon for magickal practices. Its actually a good study in your own abilities. I've used it a few times for various different things, each time twisting it to my own needs. But when fact comes to fiction, its easy to research through SEVERAL different legit resources that it was infact created for Lovecrafts stories. If you've ever read Lovecraft, then its easy to see that he uses the fictional book in a good portion of his stories.

pookachu, your thought process is very real. All religion and magick is is a belief so firmly in something that it suddenly exists. How does magick work?

You create or cast a spell, sigil, servitor, etc. You follow closely with your practice of doing such a thing. We are more in tune with things than we give ourselves credit for. This causes things to come into creation.

Hence why the necronomicon can be used for magickal practice, all it takes is a firm believe. But the fact is still present as it is a fictional book made up by a fiction writing author.

Well to me, a book is a book is a book. Sure it is a good read, but it is still a book made of ink and paper. The power of magic(k) of the book is not the realism but the belief.

Weather the Necronomicon is real or not is really not the issue. But it is the belief in the think that holds the power. A lot like the concept of Voodoo. Is the book real? Yes. I can look it up on the net, I can read it, I can buy it I can even touch it.

Does it hold any special meaning or power? I would have to say about the same as anything from “Harry Potter” to “Green eggs and Ham” to the “Holy Bible”. It is the4 belief in such thing.

The Haunted House concept, as stated above, is a good point. A haunted house if there to scare you to make you believe in ghosts and other evils. Well most people who go through do not believe in the things, they WANT to. And hence a little bit of the energy is given to the concept. No it is not enough to amount to anything, but the numbers of people that go through, and the number of years that it is open adds up. That is a LOT of energy given to the concept of a ghost or something else. That energy was given instructions by all those people, BE SCEARY. It does just that.

So if enough people with to believe in old aliens from deep space who are so powerful that you go insane just by looking at them but were somehow imprisoned under the sea until the day they can destroy the world, go ahead. I am not one to stop anyone from believing their own faith. But couldn’t we at least choose something not so melodramatic? I mean the end of the word by some large ugly whatever just does not seem like a good time to me….

Though its a good concept, I have to correct you on one thing...the point of this thread is the realistic fact of the necronomicon...a fictional book or something predating Lovecraft.

There are references to things that both lovecraft nor any of the modern authors couldn't know. Espicially the details concerning the taoist forms and yoga practices as described in these books.

However whether or no they are viable, is a question of if any taosit text, any sumerian codex, any babylonian sorcery or things NOT of semetic origin are viewed as viable places to gain information and understanding by a world dominated by Semetic and Buddhist concepts.

Batt is quite correct - there is a lot of tongue in cheek humour in Lovecraft's stories. He was inspired by real grimoires - his father was a Mason and an occultist allegedly, but Howard himself did not believe in the occult. if he did, he probably wouldn't have dared to write the stories he did. he made fun of the whole genre, he made fun of his "heroes". notice how most of the heroes in his stories are killed or go mad in the end.

read at the mountains of madness and try to keep a straight face - you cant do it.

I've heard so many things about this book, I have no idea which to believe.

well i have all three versions of the books and they are all equally well written, but Simon's version is a little better as far as laymen s term's i think that alot can be learn t from all three its just which one to truely embellish that is the question for each of us to ask

The point is, it wasn't a real book, but now it is. the Key of solomon wasn't a real book until someone created it. Aradia wasn't a real book before Leland wrote it. All magic / religious books have to start somewhere. the book of Moroni did not exist before joe smith put pen to paper.

There are now people who consider Jedi to be a religious path worth following. why not? every religion was new once.

Karnstein I agree...but believing in a books potential doesn't mean we need to believe in the fictional story/history that inspired it or believe in the intentions of those who wrote them.

actually my self i havent read the Necronomicon yet but have heard mixed feelings about it though their is different websites i have gone to checking them out and found it really intersting as to if they really are the real ones i dont know for sure either my friend said they are. who know's i guess but thanx for the info i will do more research into it. kissses&deadlybites always

You're all wrong. I have the original, handwritten manuscript of The Necronomicon, written by Lovecraft himself, and signed by both the author and Cthulhu.

And it really confuses me as to where all this "The book of the dead" stuff comes from about it. It's a guide to the fine culinary preparation of the magical small furry woodland creatures of ancient Sumeria, which the book also reveals, is actually located near modern-day Wyoming.

Personally, as fantastic as i think it would be for the Necronomicon to have actually existed it would also be just that fantastical. There is really no way that the Necronomicon has probably ever existed.
Most likely our idea of the Necronomicon or the "book of the dead" comes from our understanding and writings found on the Egyptian Book of the Dead. It was just not long before writers and theologians started theorizing that there is probably a book floating around that fits their belief of a book of the dead in the terms of either Paganism or Christianity... Basically, it was a way of cultural and religious strip mining... Most likely a kind of, "If they have it why cant we?" idea.

Your first sentence there made no sense whatsoever. Top it off, the Necronomicon DOES exist...as a fictional text created by H.P. Lovecraft.

Ahhh Duc...I appreciate the way you wrapped that up so nicely and put a bow on it for us :)

I'm quite jealous as the only thing I have signed by Cthulu is the album he cut from his brief stint with the Misfits after Danzig left. Even though it's a rare picture disc featuring a band photo, it's fairly worthless since anyone looking at it goes insane.

I have a concern.

If thoughts create reality and the book can supposedly be used as a means to create magic, then surely by that reasoning, simply believing in the Cthulu mythos would cause such beings to exist, somewhere.

And given what they are supposed to represent, why would anyone in their right mind wish to create that...

Or is that why one has to be insane to believe in this?

As a serious response to your question, I don't believe we make gods just by thinking of them or wishing for them.

I also think that anyone who claims to have summoned, seen or worked magic with an 'old one' at best was working with something that claimed to be but was not, and at worst was kidding themselves.

Stabb...

In a world where the relgious right, and all manner of "holy" creations exist as emenations as the source. Then why wouldn't people have to create the opposite. As above. So below.

If people created god, they had to create his adversary.

People did create god, people also created a devil, something to keep all of us in line...you see how well that's working. But why would we create something that flooded the earth, destroyed ancient cities, and killed his own children?

Same goes with the Lovecraft mythos...you know what it all is right? Bedtime stories so you and the wife can get freaky and jr doesn't leave his bed.

hahaha...yea but what happens when the wifey is getting freaky with a "priest" of the infernal realms while jr is getting his freak on by reading the stories?

haha demon spawn

Thats when you get us. The rejected spawn of people that pretend they're good...but fail miserably.

Thats a true story you know...a dated a guy once who is obsessed with christianity at a young age...come to find out that his mommy cheated on daddy with a priest.

I would just like to point something out.

In reference to what toilet duc said about sumeria being close to modern day wyoming.

Unless wyoming suddenly became unrooted from america and somehow transported to what is now Iraq, then i believe that he is very mistaken.

I mean, how could the ancient egyptians have ever conquered parts of southern sumeria if it was somewhere in america? (This is, according to egyptologists, written about in many places around the various tombs that the ancient egyptians left behind as their legacy).

Please feel free to click on the link below to verify the location of sumeria as according to maps from the ancient times.

here

here

those who do not understand the necronomicon cannot in fact be true to vamipirism when in fact we come from the line of necromancy it is called life after death the raise of the dead however to give you a little taste of the truth yes there may have been some sections in the books that may have been a bit cheesy but to get right down to it would it be safe to actually put the actull spell of calling into the book of the necronomicon.
There is much people need to learn bout the black arts of the dead.
lets take leviathan for example old testament which some belive it or not priest still use the actuall proverb is in the holy bible only to raise the brow of fear into man.
it will also talk about the mountain and babylon in the old testament.
also belive it or not the kuthulu mythos is said to be the oldest known to man.
which in turn would prove the fact that many scientist did in fact find relics of necromantic rituals.
do i welcome it yes i have studied many years int the art of the dead and yes as they stated in the books.
NOT ALL SYMBOLS WHERE RECORDED AS THEY SHOULD for it would in fact bring the distruction of this world and many like it they where the first and they will be the last.
chaos in fact does reign in all of us and our surroundings whether it be nature and or even in the eyes of what many call god.
the issue on this i will state is that this adam and eve where created in gods image BUT taking the rib from adam would in fact make eve his sister therefor insest and yet kain and able where born yet no mention of who they took to bed so obviously there is chaos in all that exists.
or subconsiously exists this is the way and fact so the necronomicon in some aspects can be looked in many ways but its finding the truthes behind the madness and the truth of its power

Out of 30 Egyptian obelisks, only 7 are still in Egypt, and 13 are in Rome.

The others are in Paris, London, New York, Istanbul, Florence, Urbino, Catania- Scicily, Wimborne- England, Arles- France and Caesarea- Israel.

Washington DC and Dublin also both have obelisks, but which did not come from Egypt.

Does this mean that in future generations, historians will dig these up and assume that Egyptian culture dominated these places?

Probably not, but it could be misinterperated and embellished.

Besides which, I think a measure of sarcasm has entered this thread.

A little sarcasm stabb? I think TD's post went over far too many peoples heads.

Anyway, to continue with my education of the miseducated...

those who do not understand the necronomicon cannot in fact be true to vamipirism when in fact we come from the line of necromancy it is called life after death the raise of the dead however to give you a little taste of the truth yes there may have been some sections in the books that may have been a bit cheesy but to get right down to it would it be safe to actually put the actull spell of calling into the book of the necronomicon. For one that was absolutely horrid grammar...notice how all of it is one sentence. For two, the necronomicon is, again, a made up book that has been taken on as a "religious" practice. Someone even said up there that Jedi has become a religious belief...do you see where I'm going with this?
There is much people need to learn bout the black arts of the dead.
lets take leviathan for example old testament which some belive it or not priest still use the actuall proverb is in the holy bible only to raise the brow of fear into man.
it will also talk about the mountain and babylon in the old testament. We're talking about the Necronomicon here. Though it is supposed to be part of necromancy, it isn't one in the same. The Necronomicon, since you obviously haven't read jack about it, does NOT revolve around bringing back the dead, it is a collective mixture of spells and symbols that included more nonsensical words that Silver Ravenwolf.

also belive it or not the kuthulu mythos is said to be the oldest known to man. Please no one take offense to this but the "kuthulu" mythos is NOT the oldest known to man. Everyone says that about their religious beliefs and while Anamism and Spiritism are the first documented known paths, paganism came first. Not great big slimy octopusism.

which in turn would prove the fact that many scientist did in fact find relics of necromantic rituals. What the hell does an unproven theory have to do with fact? Rituals have been done all over the world for thousands of years. From saying your prayers before bedtime to Masionic and Paganistic and Christian gatherings in their churches thousands of years ago. Just because some people view a star...just a star...as a satanic image/symbol, does not prove anything in reguards to ritual, "good or otherwise".

NOT ALL SYMBOLS WHERE RECORDED AS THEY SHOULD for it would in fact bring the distruction of this world and many like it they where the first and they will be the last.
What proof...solid and backed up evidence have you that these symbols aren't as they should be...weren't they made up in the first place???

People, the simple fact is, that the Necronomicon has been made up for horror stories. Hence its dark and deadly background. I am NOT denying that it can be used for magickal practices. I am not saying that it won't work if you belief in it strongly enough. But the point is, it was made up. We aren't discussing necrotexts...just the Necronomicon which is an individual book that doesn't revolve around adam and eve's incest. (not insest by the way.)

Wow. I just don't know what to say.

I read through this and find people spewing nonsense about leviathan and other crap to prove somehow that a book that didn't exist before a horror writer made it.

The greatest part is their lack of ability to use ANY sort of grammar. I swear, they prove my point against the existence of anything supernatural by just being so damn stupid.

Other people in this thread make more intelligent, better puncated cases and I respec that, even if they are wrong :P

Scatterspell,

May I ask who you believe is 'wrong' and why, exactly?

I'd much rather read that, than attacks against people's level of intellect.

I'd like to know who is wrong when it comes to those with better grammatical skills. You made a spelling error by the way.

Shit. I did misspell punctuate. Don't I look the fool?

Anyways. I thought those I was referring to is pretty obvious. I still do.

I'm pretty sure the ones with intelligence can figure that out easy enough.

Did I mention I hurt people when they point out ironies in my posts?

*eyes NightBlossom menacingly*

Now where's that whip.....

I was just hoping that the few individuals that seem intelligent but are obviously brain dead aren't on your list of right.

Oh, by the way, it was two spelling errors in the first post...you missed the 't' in respect as well.

*hands over a whip*

I don't "feel" they are wrong. I am right so they ARE wrong.

But that's neither here nor there.

It's no matter that I'm an pure atheist.

Heh, and if that doesn't clear things up, well I dunno what will.

Blossom. That's twice for the same post! The welts are a-coming!

I have carefully read your responses to this thread and cannot see where you put forward a counter argument to any of those 'intelligent' opinions to which you are referring.

In which case, I fail to see how you can possibly be 'right'.

Of course you didn't. I'm ok with that.

The people the jokes were intended to amuse got them.

I would like to further my comments pertaining to toilet duc's earlier comments.

I first apologise as I believe i read the post wrongly. I though that he was trying to say that sumeria was close to wyoming, whereas he said that in the book it says that.

I tend to agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread.

Some say that it's just a book....and indeed they are correct. However, some people believe that the book tells of the great old ones and that they really do exist. I think that in some peoples imaginations they do exist, but also that in some peoples imaginatons God and the Devil also exist. This is also due to a well written story.

My thoughts are these.

Lovecraft was an excellent writer who must have pulled his influences from somewhere, but that is not to say that these entities actually exist.

I wonder, however, why people state that the necronomicon is the book of the dead. It really isn't. The book of the dead is an ancient egyptian manuscript depicting the exact funerary rites performed by them. Necronomicon is actually latin for Names of the Dead. Therefore, is the necronomicon the book fo the dead or the book of dead names (maybe the book of forgotten names).

Mener

I think they were both a good read, but a little corny yes

This thread has been automatically closed for length.