So pagans there is a diffence between witchcraft and wicca. I believe it all fall under paganism.I an a dark Neo pagan and we do things the old ways even neo means new what do you all think.
lajah
In my opinion Wicca is just another form of paganism.... it's like a denomination so to speak.... I haven't quite looked into it to much to know the differences yet but I'm still learning!
wicca is 50 years old only and based on
Reverting Christian things… like holy water was original a fertility rite of symbolizing life by thrusting into the water of life … the Christian priest thrust a holy candle into the fountain while saying a prayer. A sort of reverse magic technology.
Basically Christianity had nothing and the people sucked in were magic users who changed to stay in power.
Just more names to put to concepts. And you my friend are an oxymoron...Dark Pagan? WOW!!
lol i know but read nocturnal withcraft...see alot of people thinks that a dark neo pagan mean black magic but it those not.....
I distinctly remember this one being argued before, so I'll give the same answer I gave the last time.
"Paganism" is a general term which is used to refer to ANY non-Christian religion. IE paganism is Wicca, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, Judaism, etc etc.
"Wicca" is a specific religion which tends to be nature-oriented and emphasises spells and rituals and the honouring of (amongst others) a Triple Goddess and Horned God.
Hope that helps.
thats practically the same in a sense....
i mean you do spells and stuff with both to certain extent....
but how i would seperate the two are
1 is more with the earth then the other....
Sorry perhaps you didn't understand what I wrote previously.
PAGANISM is a blanket term which encompasses ALL non-Christian religions.
WICCA is a SPECIFIC non-Christian religion with certain beliefs.
Does that clarify things for you?
that right dra but i think she is saying that it is non chirstian so it is paganism
I have noticed that pagans are more earthy than wiccans are, meaning they are more into nature...
yah but i seem to notice that paganism is more earthy then wicca
I am understanding where you are coming from, but I did not mean black magik, on the contrary...Dark, as in night...I was trying to make a funny...Darn it all!!
Now for the duscussion notes, as I have said, Pagan is like Judaism, that is to have a lifestyle in the form of old beliefs of yule logs, dancing around trees, aside from wiccan, both have the goddess...But paganism is a lifelong process, as you are a druid of paganism.
Wicca on the other hand is the way you cast within paganism if you choose to go that route. Wicca is a church for the pagans, to put it into lamens terms...I do not know how simple I can actually put it.
Glad someone does (Is out of breath) Too many words to type...LMAO.
but wicca is very earth base but i think almost all kinds of the craft are
That is very true, from luna magik, to the lititu realm, some are fire, some are earth...Very few are air...Less than most are water. Wicca is one of the few that actually studies the 5.
bumps up as a practioner to the strega way i agree it fall in some what of the pagan relm couse its not cristian based but it a diffrent wicca craft practiced for centuries
Oi, you can't say things like paganisim is more earthly than wicca, it doesn't make sense. Buddhism and Taoism aren't "earthy". Paganism is not a religion, it's a label for a group of religions.
I know, that other guy tried to tell you the same thing, but maybe seeing it again will help you? No?
Notice that I did not name any pracitices in my post, you now draw conclusions. I did not bring up any names for a very good reason. For the sake of arguement. As people love to argue.
And once again, paganism and wicca are related, as you would be pagan to go to the analogical wiccan church...Notice I said analogical. Read my explanation above for further info to that referance.
Pagans- Motorcycle gang from Pittsburgh, PA
Sorry, couldn't resist.......but, seriously, 'pagan' is merely a term for ANY non-Christian religious group, but specifically holdouts for the pre-Christian faiths. Word comes from 'paganus', Latin for 'country dweller', if I'm remebering correctly. So, basically, the early Church was calling non-Christians 'hicks'
In relation to the post of Voodoo....
Buddhism, and Taoism are insanely earthy, but they focus on the nature of the properties of the elements. There is a lot about these systems that western peoples have adapted into their sociological and religious patterns, Wicca has canabalised non semitic paths, just as Christianity has for the judaic and tribal faiths of the diferent regions. Blending and adapting to force a system of indiviualism, yet allowing for some conformity. I believe in god, therefore i am christian....NO....etc...into a degenerated train of though.
wicca is 50 year old virus, where as Christianity is a 2000 year old virus. Spreading through and growing in new cults and their relations, while they butcher and thin out the information gained from the sources their architects steal from .
Of course they're related. As related as "green" is to "colors". Or "Lo Mein" to "Chinese Food".
I love Lo Mein.
You know, I wasn't thinking Taoism when I typed it, and reading that post I thought "Why is he talking about Taoism?" The answer, of course, is because it's seven in the morning. My bad. At this point it's so far gone I don't remember exactly what I was saying. Point was, Buddhism and other pagan religions don't worship the earth and nature. They recognize what it is, they make every attempt not to harm it, and they say it's really pretty, but they don't worship it. Which is what I understood to be the point of the original statement.
Paganism is alot older then wicca and christianity right? Then if they are so similar would that make wicca just a branch of paganism?
I haven't really read that much on the subject, but from what I have read it sounds to me like they are very similar, but I guess it would take someone who actually practices to know the difference between the two subjects..
Wicca varies from country to country..celtic,seems to be the most influence whe n it comes to the u.k.in places like america,the native american ways seem to be the influence.Its relatively the same but the indigenous varients in countrys make the difference.but we,re all the same at the end of the day,with the witchcraft spells,being the same.
i dont no to me pagnasim is somhing that hgas to do with gods and wiccia so more of a state of bing, hope i said it right
Wicca can be assocated with Paganism, Paganism is a joining of two belief structures so yeah, it can be called all pagan or all wicca there's no vs of the two, only a harmony really.
Here is a decent link. that tells the diffrence between paganism and wicca...
Paganism vs. Wicca
ok ok. This is why i felt to bring this up again because so many dont understand the diff and i wa thinking it would be good to talk about
In my opinion it's all about labeling..ugh. For example I consider myself Pagan with Wiccan tendencies hehe.. I am a non-christian following a polytheistic path who incorporates some of the Wiccan practices and beliefs into my own little spiritual self. Wicca is just a small portion of Pagan religions...
Just re-read your original statement, Lajah..and yes I believe practioners of witchcraft would fall under paganism as well although not all who practice the Craft have any sort of religious affiliations...and of course not all witches are Wiccan.
Drakontian was correct in her statements, which I will repeat:
PAGANS are people who practice a religion other than Christianity. ANY religion. Buddhism to Wicca to Pastafarian. If it's not Christian, and it's a religion, it's a PAGAN religion.
WICCANS are practitioners of Wicca. I am not sure of the subtleties between the earth-based/goddess-based religions of the old world and the revival movement in the last 50 years or so.
Anyway, to dumb this down even more:
ALL Wiccans are Pagans because they are not Christians.
NOT ALL Pagans are Wiccans.
Are we clear here?
"ALL Wiccans are Pagans because they are not Christians".
This is dead on. Just like Christian also think if you do not follow the New Testament you are in a Cult. Meaning if you follow some other book other then Bible. IE. Mormons are considered a Cult among most Christians.
my thinking is i know why christian divides use up into groups but why do some wicca split off fro pagans....some witches also do the same for wicca...
All magick, science, and everything comes from the same energy. This energy is indifferent. Good and evil are mans conceptions. The universe doesn't have these, so why should we. Survival of the fittest. Socially or otherwise. Difference? How can there be a difference if you claim to be searching for unity?
Me i dont think it is but i other i have talk to do i know all is conected
Well pagans are wiccans and wiccans are pagan. That is the way I see it. They both have a god and well as a goddess. They both are earth baise. They both call upon the goddess mother earth. So to me they are the same in every way.
i used to see it as wiccans just being a branch of paganism but indeed thanks drak for clearing things up. i am still learning and reading different things and that is very useful to know. i did not know paganism meant that. but i guess you learn something new everyday.
"wicca is 50 year old virus, where as Christianity is a 2000 year old virus. "
Lmao.... that is just to funny.
Ok I don't have much to add in the way of disscusion as it was put so very well by a few others.
but maybe i can dumb it down a bit for those who still don't get it.
Paganism is a "umbrella" term like Christian is an "umbrella" term.
Wicca is simply a subset of that religious grouping, just as Catholic, Protestant, etc are subsets of the 'umbrella" term Christian.
And like the term Protestant which has it's own subsets (Baptist, Lutheran, etc.)
Wicca has it's own subsets (Gardnerian, Georgian, etc..)
I hope this further clears things up for the interested.
Well, kiddies, what they teach us in High Priestess school is that paganism is sort of like an umbrella label for all Earth/Nature/Polytheistic religions. Traditional Wicca is a very strict form of one pagan religion. There is also Eclectic Wicca which has branched off from Traditional Wicca which loosly follows the basic concepts and ritual formats. Most No-Pagan paths these days will use some variation of those which iriginated in Traditional Wicca. BUT Traditional Wicca was invented arodn 1950 based on concepts from Ceremonial Magick and the old folk teachings and practices of the British Isles.
Witchcraft, on the other hand, is NOT a religion! It is a form of magick which work in harmony with, and makes use of material from, the Earth and Nature. It also encompasses a great deal of elemental magick.
Many Witches believe in/practice some form of Pagan religion. Many Pagans/Wiccan practice witchcraft. BUT there are those who are only in one group or the other. Witchcraft is a form of magick. Wicca is one Pagan religion. Any clearer yet?
well I am Wicca and I am very earthy LOL I do not consider myself of the paganism ways because it covers so many different beliefs and ways soo, I do not know how they are the same just my opinion
strictly speaking, Wicca is not pagan. pagan mean folk religion - non secular. it is not organised religion. wicca, however is organised and has a strict heirachy, so cannot be regarded as pagan. Paganism is also Pantheistic - there are many pagan gods. not all pagans worship multiple gods, some pagans can be monotheistic, or even follow no particular god at all. Wicca, however, only recognises the Lord and Lady. although there are a few offshoots of Wicca, it is essentially a fundamentalist religion, and therefore the opposite of pagan
Thank you that is exactly how I feel and you worded it just right KOOL!
Wow this is like reading a bunch of people blowing a IQ test.
Pizza is to food as wicca is to...
hehe Paganism is any non judeo-christian religion. Judeo-Christian...that's Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Paganism is all the rest...so while Wicca is pagan...and Taoism is pagan...Taoism is in no way related to Wicca beyond both not being Judeo-Christian.
Wheeee! what a fun ride this is.
The beliefs have broadened and meshed to the point that either view is correct.
|
CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs High Sire (157) Posts: 1,286 Honor: 1,896 [ Give / Take ] |
Ok....
Paganism is an umbrella term... Christianity can be baptist, catholic, methodist, etc..... anything having to do with Christ....... Paganism is Druid, Wiccan, Atheist, Satanist, agnostic....... it is simply an umbrella term.... Now.... Wicca is a denomination if you will for lack of better term that is included in paganism....
The Wiccan faith is more a goddess based belief.... a newer belief system brought about by Crowley.... Which is where the K on the end of magick came from..... and sooooo many more things.... it takes a bit from here and there and puts it into all one...... Research Crowley and you will find a lot about the wiccan beliefs....
I am Druid...... which is totally different then Wiccan, but still to prove a point.... both beliefs are considered Pagan.....
As a practitioner of the Teutonic religion for the past 10 yrs and a high priestess for half of that this is how I see it...
Again Paganism is a blanket term. It encompasses ALL religions not devoted to the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the savior of man. Wicca falls under this definition.
Wicca is an earth based religion but new on the scene. Practices such as mine and the Celtic Druids have been around since, well, since man created religion.
Now a little history lesson folks. Judaism was founded from a polytheistic religion that decided Yahweh was the one and only true god. Christianity was based on the principle of that one god's son coming to earth in human form and dieing for our sins. Christianity took it one step further and "converted" the town folk by incorporating their old practices into the "new" religion. Hence where many Catholic traditions come from, such as the Mother Mary...who is the representation of the Goddess that the clergy were not able to eliminate if they wanted the people to follow. If you look at the Christian holiday schedule and compare to that of the Pagan holidays you will find they correlate peculiarly close to the same dates.
Any questions?
|
CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs High Sire (157) Posts: 1,286 Honor: 1,896 [ Give / Take ] |
THANK YOU! lol. I am soooooooo glad you posted. lol. Its really true just how much was taken..... *raises hand* celtic druid here* It makes me giggle really...... I mean not just the dates of the holidays but some of the traditions of them...... Christmas trees, easter eggs, may poles, yule logs, jack o lanterns...... its really quite comical...... and so many of the gods have been made into saints...... (Now note: when I say God... I am reffering to that as a neutral term.... so to those that need further explanation....... that means god and goddesses....) I am soooooooo glad you posted...... :D
I have a question .... If pagan is non christian polytheistic and wicca is a sub division that would be like Christianity is all the religions that worship christ and pentecostal is the sub division right
|
CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs High Sire (157) Posts: 1,286 Honor: 1,896 [ Give / Take ] |
I am not sure as to what the pentecostal faith believes..... If they believe in Christ..... they are considered Christian.....
Not to be off topic but you specified "Celtic Druid"... which other kind of druid would you have been referring to? If I am not mistaken you are, in your particular studies, either following the path of the Druid or that of the Celtic Witch. From that standpoint there would only be one form of Druid correct?
As to the two definitions...to use an example I alluded to earlier:
Wicca is a pagan religion
Pizza is a food
...but just as you cannot ask for food and expect to always get a pizza, you cannot talk about paganism and expect to alway be referring to Wicca. That's also why pagan isn't capitalized since it's a classification and not a proper religion of it's own.
Wicca is a craft like Witchcraft and some are born into the craft . Paganism deals with the Gods .
Stardust:
Witchcraft deals with the elements...
Paganism= anything not jewish/christian/buddhist/islam...dealing with country origin.
Wicca isn't paganism......
well, that is if I actually am right about my definition of wicca.
wicca is centered upon one goddess... and her god changes every year......
that's hardly paganism.........
you give praise to the earth, I believe.. but that's still towards the goddess..
There you are wrong....its not the fact that theres a new god every month...Its that the God is constantly born..grows...becomes of age...grows old...and dies..all to restart the cycle every year...
Crowley had a lot of wicca in his craft but most wicca and witches dont like him.He believe he couldnt do his magic without a woman his scarlet woman as he called here...I glad you all are still postin...thaanks
lajah
I think there is a very big difference - I'm a
Satanist and also follow the old ways ..
Blood Magick ----- And others believe in the earth , and many other things . our practices are all different .
"wicca isn't paganism", "they seem like the same thing"
Ok one more time WICCA IS A FORM OF PAGANISM you can be pagan and not wiccan but you cannot be wiccan and not pagan plain and simple... it's like saying "I'm a baptist but I'm not christian" sorry it doesn't work that way
I'm glad I came across this,I'm new wiccan and I've learned from this thanx guys.....
i'm reading you Lav - lol. same here. but to clarify a matter, Pagan does not mean any non-christian religion. some christians will call any non-christian a pagan or a heathen, but they only do it as a term of abuse without knowing what the word means - rather like 90% of the words they use.
Pagan comes from the Roman and originally meant folk-religion. that means any rural religion that is not goverened by the rules of an organised religion. in some circumstances christianity can be Pagan. but any organised religion - such as Judaism. Islam, Buddhism, Hindu, etc is not Pagan. Wicca is not really Pagan, because although it follows many of the beliefs of Pagans, it is strictly governed by a hierachy. a lot of people read a book on witchcraft, decide to worship a Goddess and then call themselves Wiccan. this is the same as if read the Gideon's bible, hung a cross around my neck, and called myself a Mormon. Wicca is a relatively new religious sect, and their claim is that you have to be initiated by a Wiccan high Priestess - you cannot initiate yourself. it is that very point which has caused the greatest rift between Pagans and Wiccans. Wiccans claim they are the only true Pagans, and have adopted a very fundamentalist point of view. that in itself is a contradiction, because you cannot be a fundamentalist Pagan - it's an aximoron.
Although I believe your question concerning the differences herein have been answered, I will put in my two cents :)
Paganism IS the OLDEST religion the world over. Within it not only does Wicca fall(all be it a newer development in the Pagan philosophies) but also Druids, Neo Pagans, Nocturnal Pagans, Asatru...just to name a FEW. Although each division of Paganism is different in someways (So are the various religions of the Catholic/Christian faith, and many or most traditions still practiced to day originated with age old Pagan traditions) the one thing that all Pagans believe in is growth. Growth-spiritually, mentally, physically, the environment your life choices, everything evolves yet ties into all else. Another similarity between all Pagan branches or divisions is a polytheistic view or belirf.
Yes, Paganism and Wicca is similar, but they both stem from the Source.
Exactly. "Pagan" is the umbrella term. The rest fall into sub categories and other branches, just like any other religon.
Wicca is a branch of the Pagan tree, so to speak. Wicca is a part of neo-paganism. So Paganism is like a category that religions are under.
Not to step on any toes here. But I would classify Satanism as falling under the Judeo-Christian religious umbrella and not the pagan one.
I do tend to agree with the statement that Wicca is not Pagan (in the since that Pagan refers to nature based folk religions that were pre-exsisting before the "new fangled" Christian one came into power amongst the socital leadership. ) I do however call Wicca a Neopagan religion.
First - a response to lavisbre - Wicca is NOT 50 years old! The Wiccan path can be traced back to all paganism (Druids, etc...) The old ways were NOT based on Christianity as it didn't even exist yet! Christianity took over the old ways (such as their holy water versus our blessed water, yule logs, easter eggs etc....)and incorporated them into Christianity as to get people to convert.
Sorry, getting a little emotional... Wicca is certainly just a form of paganism just like Druids or Shamans, all the believes are related though depending on the geographical location, the God and Goddess would have had different names and the rituals varied the basis is the same.
Regardless of what you want to believe, Wicca is only 50 or so years old. It was only invented that long ago, so yea. Paganism has been around for thousands of years, and like many have stated before me, it is an umbrella term for many other religions, including Wicca.
All things come from wicca.... Ok you little playgin, lets get this straight wickers stole EVERYTHING in it's belief structure from other sources it's like being eclectic... take a little from here and a little from there and ooh look you have a big pile of things that you STOLE from other people. Plain and simple wickers are one of the lowest forms of playgins in that they only focus on the goddess and nothing on the god aspect ooh look you worship out of balance because some man broke your heart and now you worship female deitys usually the first one you hear about. Hate to tell you that's being a Dianetic not a wicker. You yell and scream about equality and balance and only worship half of powers that be or just piss them off due to constraining them to one specific gender.
To clarify for those who think I cannot spell
since wicca is nothing more than made up I prefer to call you/them wickers
playgin is the term I use instead of pagan as to the majority of those on here it is a joke sory but I take my religion very seriously
OY! *smacks forehead* What difference does it make really ? For all intents and purposes these words are just labels anyway. What's wrong with just being spiritual and defining your own belief system within yourself and not having to label it?
|
CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs High Sire (157) Posts: 1,286 Honor: 1,896 [ Give / Take ] |
I disagree. I do believe that gods exist, and there is a major difference between taking your beliefs and religion seriously, and becoming a psycho fanatic. I take my religion seriously just as my husband has said. I will stand up for what I believe in by defending it, but I am by no means a psycho that would kill people over their disbelief.
i believe what and when i choose to believe. at Xmas, i believe in Santa.
when you take a religion seriously, it ceases to become faith, and becomes dogma. dogma stands in the way of enlightenment.
|
CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs High Sire (157) Posts: 1,286 Honor: 1,896 [ Give / Take ] |
As I said there is a difference between taking something seriously enough to defend what you believe.... and becoming a fanatic.... What I believe is also the lifestyle I choose to lead. Does that mean I am going to go round slaughtering people because they do not believe what I believe? NO. It means that I am comfortable in my choice of lifestyle, and beliefs, and that I choose to believe that way.... Now that said.... I do not try to conform anyone into what I believe, and I personally will not judge someone for what they believe. I will get bothered if someone says they are something but has no clue as to what they are talking about when it comes to the title they choose to claim..... To me that is ignorant, and well for lack of better terms.... a poser...... The whole point of the thread has taken a leap off topic, so lets bring it back to its roots....
I will reiterate myself and say, that Wicca IS considered paganism..... paganism being considered all religious faiths not dealing with Christ. If you do not believe that Christ is the son of god....... then you are pagan.... even if you are atheist and choose to believe nothing you are considered a pagan by todays standards and view points.
I also believe wicca is just a form or branch of paganism
peagan in my experience and studies is anything that is not related to christian in any way and deals directly with majik or the inner self....now on this there is a difference between wicca and witchcraft..and using nokturnal majik as a refference is highly inappropriate...i have read it and was turned away because it also claims to be 'wiccan' in the book...in the sense of this book the two cannot be one....it is based off of the use of gods and goddesses...mostly those dealing with the night times.....
much of the wiccan ideas of these times are very much the same as witchcraft which i find inaccurate as well...wiccan as i know it is more earthly based much like the druids and sisters of avalon used....(and yes they did practice more than jsut wiccan acts...)not dealing with the gods and goddesses.....they use the powers of the earth.....the wiccan used by most today is more thought of as white majik and witchcraft is the dark side....again very wrong.....witchcraft and wiccan and any other majik is not light or dark based....balck or white...its the use that determines what side it falls on not the majik itself....there are dark majiks and white majiks...but they are driven directly by these forces.....
i could keep gong on..but then i would be falling out of topic...and mind you all these are the things i have learned and remember from past lives...
lol YAY for Drakontion!!
The very title of this thread disturbs me. Paganism vs Wicca... There is no such thing. Wicca is a Pagan religion because Pagan is an umbrella term for many assorted non-Christian religions. Seriously, if you're calling yourself either, you should know this. Also, as I've been known to say on many occasions, religion is a very personal thing. So what one person may consider Pagan or Wiccan...another may not.
I tend to stay on the safe side. I call myself Pagan with Wiccan tendencies. lol While I'm not as ritual-oriented as most Wiccans are, I do find comfort in some ritualistic acts. I'm not so big on magic. Magic, to me, is mind over matter and requires more time and concentration than I'm willing to spend or give. Besides, I don't really believe in using magic for your own personal gain. I'm always afraid it will come back and bite me in the...bum. So I also shy away from that side of Wicca.
On a side note, I saw where someone said that Pagans are more nature-oriented than Wiccans. *scratches her head* I would have thought it would be the other way around...
Paganism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
• Learn more about citing Wikipedia •
Jump to: navigation, search
"Pagan" and "heathen" redirect here. For other usages, see Pagan (disambiguation) and Heathen (disambiguation)
Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "an old country dweller, rustic") is a term which, from a Western perspective, has come to connote a broad set of spiritual or cultic practices or beliefs of any folk religion, and of historical and contemporary polytheistic religions in particular.
The term can be defined broadly, to encompass the faith traditions outside the Abrahamic monotheistic group of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The group so defined includes the Indian religions (such as Hinduism, Jainism), Native American religions and mythologies and Shinto as well as non-Abrahamic ethnic religions in general. More narrow definitions will not include any of the world religions and restrict the term to local or rural currents not organized as civil religions. Characteristic of pagan traditions is the absence of proselytism and the presence of a living mythology which explains religious practice.[1]
The term "pagan" is a Christian adaptation of the "gentile" of Judaism, and as such has an inherent Christian or Abrahamic bias, and pejorative connotations among Westerners,[2] comparable to heathen, and infidel, mushrik and kafir (كافر) in Islam. For this reason, ethnologists avoid the term "paganism," with its uncertain and varied meanings, in referring to traditional or historic faiths, preferring more precise categories such as polytheism, shamanism, pantheism, or animism.
Since the later 20th century, however, the words "pagan" or "paganism" have become widely and openly used as a self-designation of adherents of polytheistic reconstructionism and neo-paganism.
i have to make a correction, i have read up on wicca, it was created 1000 years before christianity, so with that in mind, wicca is a vast new way to learn magic, cant explain how just yet, but i too am still learn about it
Wicca itself is only 50 years... the religions it PULLs from are older than Christianity.
Hence Pagan=any religion other than Christianity.
This horse is DEAD folks. All the circles of logic are making my eyes hurt. I think that every aspect that can be covered has been. Closed for redundancy.