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Generally speaking, belief and practice in the occult requires a bit of faith, or at the very least openness.

Are you a skeptic?

Does being a skeptic then mean that you would be unable to participate in occult activities?

If you were a skeptic, and you attempted an occult activity of whatever flavour, did it then work?

Or did it fail miserably, thereby fuelling your skepticism?

i believe only due to the things that have happened to me, if my life was essentially eventless, then i would NOT be a believer.

It's interesting that belief is shaped by experiences. I would think that it would be difficult to recognise the experiences as such if you didn't have even some scrap of belief there. Otherwise one would just dismiss whatever had happened as mere chance or happenstance.

The sheer definition of an occult leads me to believe that no you cannot be a skeptic and practice whatever following under that title you have chosen. You need to be completely open minded and there is no room for doubt.

I recall an incident where people were trying to read an Ouija Board in my presence.... and the board spelled out "tell Chris to get out". I am a believer of God of the Bible and many to this day think that because of that the "spirits" would not play that day. There were only 4 people in the room - two on the board and myself and one other.

i am a believer and have experienced unbelievable things but i was a believer before the universe proved me correct.

skeptic No. I have had too many experiences with mediums and the Wicca coven outside of VR.

I could never been taught as much as I have if I would not of been open-minded. I also ask for the highest and best...when I read tarot or scry.

Without complete 100% faith and conviction in what you are doing, you will never succeed. And for every success, a hundred failures.
It is the seed of doubt in a mans mind that holds him back.
No skeptic will ever succeed, their very negativity alone prevents them from having any positive results.

positiive results are prevented.

but are negative results experienced?

I tend to be skeptical of much. I think your belief makes a big difference in the outcomes. This is true not only for occult and other spiritual activities, but most human endeavor. If it is athletics, business or personnal relationships, your belief and faith in the outcome is critical to success.

Simply, most endeavors require a belief and faith in the outcome, occult practices are no different.

That is an interesting though Infernal. The lack of success isn't necessarily a negative outcome. But can there be a negative outcome. Are there things worse that lack of success. In occult practices, that may well be.

but if you know the mechanics of it, then you dont need to believe in the mechanics for it to work.

Would you also be able to be skeptical?

I don't anything about electricity to be able to build something which runs off of it. But i know that when I flip a switch it will be there.

Can't i be skeptical about that well, maybe it wont come on and it still does? Doesn't the High art work in this fashion if you apply the mechanics? Putting your will behind something will generate a form of manifestation. Its just up to your perception whether or not you follow through with your condition perceptions or not. wouldn't you say?

So you could be skeptical all you want, or you could believe in it if you feel so inclined. It comes down to the mechanisms, if you know how it works, then it doesn't require any belief.

As has been said it holds true that belief in something is paramount to its success. What if you know the mechanics, of how to build a car, and you know that everything is where it needs to be. You add gas and oil, and any other needed fluids to it, and you don't believe it will start, you know it will yes?

doesn't the same hold true for the mechanics of the art? faith and belief become irrelevant in anything other then getting the mind aligned with the current which you will be working on.

I think the mechanical view will work for much. I hadn't really thought about it that way. Driving in rush hour traffic sure needs a lot of faith in yourself and fellow drivers, but it is all mechanical. By the time I get home, I don't even remember the trip.

Some things can be mechanical and result in success. But yet, in the race, when your a head to head with your competitor, it is your will that forces you to go just a little faster to win.

Of the rituals, some may take more concentration to be successfull, other not.

I agree that it does require some belief in it for it to work and yes I do believe and am not skeptic at all

I keep thinking about this Infernal, to plug in and draw electricity, you had to have faith that the electricity was there. It takes faith in the power company, in the wiring. I wouldn't attempt to build a car unless I had faith that I could.

I do think much of this is mechanical, but, as far as occult goes, is it the ritual itself or is it the something else? Some rituals are there for the user's protection. But can the result be accomplished in other ways?

all magick exists in the spiritual and physical capacity.

To do magick, one mus do magick as the saying goes.

In ritual you have you as the mage, build your world as you would have it. From this construct you release your will to manifest.

Then you being the savy mage, begins to take steps in your day to day to make sure that your will manifests, as nothing worth having comes with no cost.

So there you have it, the cost to doing the work. Your faith in the systems which you rely on.

I do not have faith in the power company, i know the greed in their hearts. If they want my money, and they want it regularly then they will supply me my electricity.

Same goes for the art. The untangible and unbirthed forces need their hands in the physical. So thus one can acheive works of the Thaumaturgical and Theurgical nature if said bond is held up.

Personally, I serve the higher forces which command what they will through the various mediums which i have found myself surround by. And normally my stance on the skeptical mind is that it has no place but back with those who waist their time convincing it. I have far more pressing matters to give my time. But for sake of inquiry into popular opnion at least within this society I posed the questions which i did.

I consider we all have faith in something or someone..toherwise we would be dead..I mean who doubt that the sun will rise the next morning, or that the Earth will turn on tiself...who doubt that the water of the world will disapeare? No one

casue the sun will rise
the planet will continue turning
and the water will not diseapear.

People came remain skeptical until they have an experience to break through and cause belief - because they experienced first hand and just blows away the doubt.

I don't mean to be argumentative Infernal, I'm just trying to expand my understanding. My personal belief is that the magick is through willful desire. The rituals focus the practioners. The basic question is: Is magick due to the ritual or is it due to the desire to do magick?

Who came up with the basic rituals. Why are they done that way? Basic rituals focus are minds, this is true in sports, business, art. Is that why there are rituals in magick? or is the ritual the thing?

I guess one more think, or is magick due to the desire for the outcome and the belief that it can be achieved.

I am not sure if I believe or not, but I didn't think that any one could perform magic unless that person believed in it, and believed that the spell or what ever it may be will actually work. I have never attempted any thing like this myself.

Im still unsure of how to answer this because to what is the actual definition is an "occult"?

Heres my thing. Yes I am skeptic but in the way that I need to feel, see it or even just be show it.

If those are not met then I just think hard on it and might not do much else.


But I have felt things if anything. Which leads me to a point that things happen.




But being a member of a full fledge cult could be a bad thing. Given that in order to do that it takes something that could have a bad result. What I have heard some of them do things that are not good. So I will stick to people I know I can trust.

Magick is a tool.

Like anything else, it has procedures, and safe gaurds for the new so they dont do something stupid.

All ritual acts as a safe gaurd to the greater mind. It protects the human mind, and body from the currents which exist as the raw forces of creation.

Preforming magick in the definition =

"The causation of willed and directed changes within the environment" - Crowley in the 1940s

That being stated as the true and orginal definition of the term in modern day occultism supports the older notion that

"magick is the undefinable forces which cause willed and desired changes as focused through the mind and spirit imprinting on reality"

this is of course in study of the hermetic text of 1923, the Kabyllon, as well as the basic principles behind Thaumaturgy, so mention by Elphais Levi 1800s in his work Dogma Et Heute Magica Rituel part 2 page 123.

"man has the divine spark within him, thus has the capacity to become as co-operator with the divine"

That being said, basing the next notions off of the Zohar from the 1st and 2nd century, if memory serves. prayer being diagramed and written out as consisting of mechanics which cause gaurenteed manifestation.

Through my own research and written works which will be in print shortly, There are definable aspect which cause the willed manifestation of change. This is a tested mechanism. You can do this if you don't believe, but the idea that you would be doing it shows you have some faith some where.

I am not in any means discussing the prospect of the success of the skeptic, but remarking on the notion there is more the High Arts then the low levels of witchcraft of the modern day would have you to believe, as well as the cloistered Kabalistic hogwash spewed by members of the golden dawn. They lack that extra step, tying their studies into the mages of the modern day.

Where if you know mechanics, you don't need blind faith, there exists a means of empyrical reason. Which is one of the defining features of living in this time. It can be proven. Study the water crystals by Dr. Emoto has been able to prove thought manipulates reality, thus perception is the causation of that manipulation of reality.

So there you have it, the willed manipulation of percieved thought to create with ones will the desired changes within the environment.

Which interlaces everything, but for those who need more then blind faith, or blind ignorance to the possibilities out there.

"Magick exists as the undefineable means by which the environment is changed through the application of the will through its directed intent and thusly released."

no belief needed, it just is. If it required belief then it wouldn't be what it is. Now would it?

"Occult" as defined by Merrium webster- Hidden or secret Knoweldge.


Any attainable skill through the application of a discipline to atain a greater knowledge.

to a lay man, a Dr is an Occultist.

so is a Mechanic, or a Musician, anyone with a specialty is considered an occultist.

No matter what you believe, or what faith you have, or what religion you follow/practice, you have to have complete faith in your chosen path.

to me when I hear that word I think negative thoughts so of course you would automatically shoot skepticism... hense this thread ...

Yes polish


"One must have faith in their skepticism to hold it to such degree as it omits all other possibilities from their paths. "

that makes no sense but make so much sense

thats what happens when you believe in something.

go with the mechanisms, understand their tide and ebb, and you wont have to worry about the binding constraints of dogma being forced down your throat. Even if it is your own dogma.

give me proof, and i believe.


i've seen enough to believe.

I am not so much skeptical as simply not interested in some forms of the occult.

I think it boils down to whatever a person is drawn to.

You have to believe in what your doing to have any faith so if you do not believe why are you there

I am a natural believer.. I feel it would be very nieve of me to think that only my miniscule view of the world is all that is possible.. just because it hasn't slapped me in the face does not mean it isn't there..

I am a skeptic, I believe only what I can see with my own two eyes and/or what has scientific proof behind it. I have never seen a ghost, spoken to the dead or anything of the sort. I do think that some people are able to do the above things, I think majority of them are full of sheet.

byv, if you believe that there are some people who can do some of those things, doesn't that then mean that you are not a total skeptic? you have a little bit of belief there, if you think that it's possible on some level.

i've never seen a ghost either, and frankly i'm not sure that i would want to. that doesn't mean i think that they don't exist, and that they can be communicated with. i think there's a big difference between belief in a thing, and the experience of a thing. if you only believed in what you experienced, you'd never believe in a hell of a lot of things. like other countries. plane flight if you've never flown. root canals if you've never had one. etc etc.

True, i'm not a full skeptic. Ok... trying to think of a good way to phrase this... I do believe in mediums, psychics, etc but I don't there are as many as we think. I think there are more people looking for a money making scheme (*cough*Miss Cleo *cough*) then there are people actually able to do these things.

I only believe in mediums becuase my mother has a touch of the ability. That's all I personally know of when it comes to the paranormal.

Forgot to add this:

When it comes to the 'not believing because of not experiencing something' that's not what I said. I said I don't know if I believe in things that don't have scientific proof of it's existance. Is there scientific proof of reincarnation? Is there any proof at all there is life after death? No.

no, there's not, and until we have solid proof, i'm a skeptic!

Kont.....

why are you here??? go be angsty and full of disblief where its not bothersome

Threads are to state your opinion, which she has done. There is nothing wrong with that.

I'm a skeptic of everything. The trick is to not let your doubts get in the way, I meditate before I do anything Occult related, so that the doubt holds off. And once I'm preoccupied in whatever I'm doing, the doubt hardly ever comes back.

I used to not be a skeptic..Although now that has changed quite a bit.

It's my policy to be skeptical about things, but also keep an open mind. I won't be one to say "That's impossible!" and not participate, I will give things a try and put all I can into it, but I want to use my head and my heart.

The resent explosion of Paranormal shows has peeked my interest in para normal and occult again,The entertainment value helps me be a bit more skeptic per case so when the dust settles we will have a uncluttered field to work with.Right now I feel the Fad of it is opening things up to hoaxes.Although I also feel the hoaxes need to be researched and documented as well and the reasoning behind the hoax explored as well.

first off i would like to learn about the occult so what is a good starter book? as to if i belive or not Iam open minded and since i have followed some conspiracy theories where some of the Elites running the world writes that magic is complete garbage and then meet in secret to do rituals I was like wtf man? if the people running the banking world, the monarchs, big coporations and presidents are members of secret cults like skull n bone, freemasons, ect meaning what would be called intelligent people based on their positions, there must be something to it IMO and since its been around for thousands of years in old text in ledgends in africa in europe in asia india all over why not ?

I believe if you are skeptic about ideas then you probably shouldn't be trying to practice them. You need to have faith in what your doing.

I tend to function as a skeptic as there is too much hype in our culture. No, being a skeptic does not mean that it prevents me from participating in activities. In fact to me, it means you should but you’re going in with a neutral mindset and attempting to not be biased in any direction.

Oh so someone else is into Dr. Emoto too. I wrote a couple of articles on Hado. As for magick which is what I perceived was meant by the way the word Occult was applied although it means many things and Magick is just one of them. I learned Huna first so my training is that the conscious mind and the unconscious must be in harmony. There are many ways in which one can sabotage a working. One must be able to let go and let the unconscious self take over and perform the act. Some say it isn't that cut and dried as far as those who believe in the Fates and in some cases no matter how hard you try you cannot change what is devined. Personally I don't know as I haven't come up against that. I don't put down Hermetic teachings because many have learned that way and who has the right to say its stuff and nonsense when many stand behind that to a fault. I am neither of those things but I don't take anything to chance.

No real skeptic would get involved with the occult unless they were challenged or doing research. It is just that in a nutshell or they had a happening that so unnerve them they became more openminded to look into whatever aspect it was of the occult they had come in contact with.

We know that thought can do many things and sound as well. It has been said in the past to watch what you think. I think many of the things we come in contact with that we believe to be unsavory have been created by our thoughts but it's a hard concept to grasp so yes in some ways being a skeptic would make a difference and in others not at all in my opinion.

Infernal, thanks for your opinion, which i choose to ignore.

Forums are here for opinions and input, and those thoughts and input are mine, and rightfully so here, just as your hot air is also.

I lean toward skepticism, but personal experience belies much of that (actual manifestations as well as intuitive, right brain perception). I embrace my skepticism (left brain thinking), as it has saved my ass more than once. Yet, everything Infernal said makes sense to me, especially the part about understanding the mechanism to avoid having dogma shoved down my throat.

Dogma avoidance is at the base of much of my skepticism.

I think the world has need of skeptics, without them some people would become lazy and accept things without question.

I find that studying the evolution of para science and occult comes along with the advancement of skeptics
and bebunkers,at least the hack hoaxers are keep at bay to thin the field for research a skeptic is likely to be a much more lucid witness then a "jaded hunter".

skepticism is what pushes humanity to find answers to unknown things.

i have read all the posts in this thread and i have to say.... i believe ANYTHING is possible.... i have never seen nor felt anything like what is being said in here but who am i to say it can't happen or won't happen....

so you're not a skeptic, you're just waiting for the chit to happen, eh?

fair enough.

im skeptic about most things... i need to experiance it myself first.... so if you tell me you seen GHOST ID RUN IN THE ROOM AND STAY THERE TILL I SEEN IT TOO LOL

oh h*ll, me too, i'd run in there and be like, "O ghostie ghost ghost...show us yourself"

Notional data taints the progress of research,some "haunting hoaxes"for example are guarded secrets of Initiated Societies ... some involving Magicians.

Skeptics are also valuable when it comes to shedding disinformation from investigations...as well as urban myth repeitions

indeed, so begrudgingly misbelieving has its place.

Faith is required to believe

As I have often said to the religious fanatics in my own family, so does it apply equally to the occult or any other "faith"-based belief system:

While Truth cannot be discerned through Logic alone, yet all truth must be logical.

While I do believe that many truths exist outside the sphere of that perceived through the use of our limited five senses and the interpretations therefrom derived, yet to simply "believe" on "faith" alone to the degree that we find ourselves illogically ascribing supernatural significance or direct causality to otherwise unremarkable circumstances or coincidences is to deny Reason and Logic and instead succumb to intellectual and spiritual laziness and ignorance.

Thus, I am most certainly a skeptic... as ought to be anyone aspiring to Reason and Logic, the very foundational prerequisites for intelligence.

some parts of it i belive the most of us are sceptical to. I dont think anyone belive blindly in every aspect of it or every system in it.

I had been a skeptic and one night I tried a simple protection spell for my very sick mother and it backfired and ended up opening one of the heat grates and when she got up the next morning she almost fell cause of it.Now I am a firm believer but I have not tried anything since than as I never know what could happen I could end up calling evil spirits and I do not thing I am experienced enough to mess around with magic.

faith and belief barely belong in the same sentence, unless the sentence is faith is belief without evidence by one who speaks without knowledge.

I am not a skeptic, however, I have know friends that were skeptics and after trying a simple spell were believers.

i personally am not a skeptic. but i know alot who are and I believe BELIEF makes spells work,etc. Thats my opinion.

I think it depends on how much you desire the outcome not if you really believe in it.

NyteStalker -

That you would attempt a protection spell at all shows a marked lack of skepticism. That you then would interpret your mother's subseuent fall (whether by a heat grate or something else) as somehow meaning that your "spell" "backfired shows an even far -greater lack of skepticism to have reached such an unseemly (given the evidence) conclusion. Frankly, I would think the fact that the spell did not work at all would have most anyone else seriously questioning the validity of such "spells." Yet in your case, it has made you more of a believer (?!).

Again, whether mainstream Judeo-Christian religion or paganism and other alternative/"New Age"/"Wicca" belief systems... all depend upon either the gullibility of the believer or some emotional despearation to "believe" in something... no matter how unreasonable.

I am not a skeptic at all I believe that anything is possible and can be achieved. Bit then again if i had not witnessed certain things in my life I am not so sure I would be as openminded as I am

Hmmmmm.....
Well I have never attempted "occult" activities
but I have gone to get a reading from a "clairvoyant" and was told that I have Wiccan powers and was surprised because I had once healed someone just out of the blue purposely on accident (if that makes any sense) and the clairvoyant told me that I had healing powers, but anyways it was weird for me because I'm christian. but in the end I kinda believe that all "powers" in this world stem from the same source, so maybe all you need to perform "things" is faith in the belief that you can do it.
Anyways......yeah ¬_¬

I am not a skeptic at all...seen to many thing to be one of those..but I imagine if one were it would hinder their ability to work it. Again i think it all about your faith and beliefs.

I still think anyone should be skeptical of anything the hear or see. You can certainy be convinced.

I am not a skeptic to my beliefs. I do believe if anyone was a skeptic they would have a hard time believing

David Koresh said he was Jesus Christ... and his followers blindly believed, even as they were burning to death.

Jim Jones likewise got many people to believe that, instead, he was Jesus Christ... and his followers gullibly believed, even as they gulped down the poisoned kool-aid.

The "Heaven's Gate" believers likewise believed that their mass suicide would be rewarded in having their souls rise to meet a UFO mothership (nice tennies, guys!).

And Islamic fanatics worldwide continue daily to commit suicide bombings and all manner of murderous atrocities in the name of "Allah" believing they will likewise be rewarded in heaven... with 72 virgins, no less.


Believing anything and everything that satisfies your pride or your own point of view du jour might be superficially pleasing... but in the long run, such foolish refusal to require strong evidences before finally being logically convinced of a theory or belief system will eventually force you at some point to realize just how very gullible and brainless you have been.

Hopefully... it won't take drinking someone's "kool-aid" to realize this.

what the eyes see the mind belives so if you haven't seen it you are a skeptic. If you have seen it you are a beliver, becourse i think that if you where a beliver you would try it out simple as that . I saw a program called the secret and it told that you didden't need any fancy stuff just a posetive mind to align with the energys in the world once that is acompliced you make a thought or a wish and by thinking strongly enough about it make it happen .....I was a bit like yeah right but after having seen those conspiracies envolving mental powers ect i decided to give it a try note that for the last 4 years i have been negative, hated everything and thought nothing gonna happen and as explained in the program every thought is a wish so if you say nothing happening so will it bee was unemployed a year due to lazyness and hate of humans, socializing being nice in general. I also had special needs for the job, not to much people contact, no boss 24/7 ...so i decided to wish for a cool job new connections ,cooler people ect after making my wish 30 min pasted then the phone rang it was my cossin who just had gotten the perfect job and they needed one more so i got it just like that! It was at night so not much human contact and the boss i had to speak with over the phone once a week and meeting only once a month so first wish granted next up was the cool people thing since all the others at the work place are awsome and realy interesting to talk with so second wish in the bag! the connections i also got but won't specify them here but point is I have become a beliver after trying this out nothing happens for 4 years then trying it out and then things happen in a time span of 2 weeks Iam blown away btw I started wanting some time off the job and what do you know the thing I was currently doing went bad, so the job got chancelled so have been doing nothing for a month but the same people have got a new job waiting ready in 2 weeks so i also got my vacation/wish kinda ....maybe the thing is with the spells rituals the same thing so its realy the mind doing it and not the candels circels ect (magic probs) but in terms of getting the heads up on future events you might need these things I don't know just starting to discover SO I WILL ASK AGAIN ANY RECOMANDATIONS ON A GOOD OCULT BEGINNER BOOK? thanks!

I have always believes that in my disposition I say this since I have no position of authority on any matters save for what I claim through years of experiances...Is one fact, this being, I choose to challenge the skeptics to a finely tuned point to prove certain occult theories right, when proof is needed.

For example, the ouija board is often identified as an evil object of summoning, though the skeptics claim they do not work. Sit me down with a ouija and I will show you why you should not mess with a ouija.

I would think it may be fun to throw skeptics for a loop when they are needing a bit of proof with their laughter, mayhaps show them a bit of clarity to instill a bit of open minded thought into their lives.

Eh, maybe its just me...

You all have good points, and I'm not saying that it is not true, I just haven't witnessed it like you have.

You are right 1024, most in this life do not experiance certain instances, since they do not allow themselves, or are allowed to have that position within their lifetimes.

Which I think is why some skeptics are the way they are psychologically...being barred by the forces that bind them, from knowing the truths that would more then likely entertain them to a point of rationalisation.

Skeptics are not at all "pyschologically" "barred," at all. Skeptics simply realize that seeing is not necessarily believing.

Do you actually believe the magician on stage sawing the lady in half is actually committing on-stage murder?

Why not? That's what you are seeing... right?

And the "faith healer" who bilks gullible "believers" of all the money he can get is really healing people in his shows, too, ... right?

As the great skeptic (another word for scientist) Dr. Carl Sagan put it soooooo perfectly: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Thus... to be anything other than a skeptic in requiring more evidence than just what one THINKS he sees with his eyes is to be unforgiveably gullible.

an open mind can be filled with many notions.The more your open mind is filled with fancy easily absorbed notion,the less room there is for knowledge to function.If we find something in our mind that disagrees with faith based things we may disregard knowledge we need to solve another equation that truely may fascinate us more.

Its like someone telling you they jumped off of a 10 story building and survived. You may believe it, but you probably wouldn't.

I guess if you open your mind and ask additional questions, you may find that they jumped with a parachute, or a bunge cord, or onto a large inflatable like a stuntman would.

So all along they were telling the truth. You were right to be skeptical of what they told you. Until you heard the rest of the story.

So you continue to investigate, not necessarily to prove wrong, but perhaps to prove right.

An open mind doesn't necessarily mean you believe every thing your see or hear, but that you will consider it.

I am skeptical and a believer.

JZ Makes a good point.idealistic people are subject to being misled regularly.Sadly those that manipulate them know how to dilude them to believe that theirs is the only retoric to consider and that those that say other wise are out to persacute the followers of that idea.Skeptics are taken out ostricized or even offered promotion some are just,some people are only skeptic because they want to see what the profit of the "production"is.So not only do they teach doctrine in cults they teach antidoctrine as well they use other texts to "suger coat" or "validate" seldom will people follow cross reference or sources.The leader makes it so clear,the leader was once a skeptic s well...so this must be a ligit cult ....it scares me how easy and common it is.

If we move out from the hypothesis of "nothing unreal exists" - the skeptic may not be able to perform activities, but the skeptic can certainly look at things from an outside point-of-view.

There was a great show on the other day that showed how many so-called "psychics" were bascially duping their audience. It was all fakery - good show, but no real psychic power there...

having the capacity to pull element tgether when someone is trying to decieve someone else and those people join in debate it is a skill to keep away from the bait.

I have never participated in any occult stuff.

Although, I do believe in everything that the occult is.

if you do not believe why are you there curiosity well deep inside that is some kind of faith

Views like those of alixaryon above reflect well the gullibility of those for whom any and all occult claims are believed, much to the delight of the charlatans benefitting therefrom.

Until such time as Human society learns the lessons of history that "Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence", we will continue to see the masses being duped, betrayed, fleeced, and even brought to their own destruction as already witnessed in religious and occult-based cults worldwide.

Knowledge is indeed power... and those who shun it and instead embrace ignorance and superstition, as does alixaryon and many many others here, Humankind will remain poised on the brink of its own annihilation.

I am definatly a believer in the occult, i have had expriences before, things like this sometimes may be hard to believe and thats why people are skeptics i think.

a cynic at heart, that just might make me a skeptic, yeah. only the jadedness goes beyond that. if say i were attacked by a wraith type being i would look back and roll my eyes saying "oh bugger just my luck"

I am a believer in many occult workings and magickal practices but I operate by the trust but verify mentality. I always look for a reason for the event in science or medicine before I look at the occult for an answer. Tis better to rule out the mundane first and THEN look to the otherworldly for answers. Overlooking the simple things are what causes 80% of the issues we face in life.

Not a skeptic so I can not quite answer your question but maybe add to it..

It is possible to believe , be a part of and involved in when you are a skeptic. Just how many that go to church of any faith truly 100% are not skeptical.. You will only receive back as much as you believe and as much energy you put out.

if you are skeptical then no wander nothing worked for you wicca or any other "religion" is based on faith just like Christianity you don't see there god but they believe he,s there . so yes you have to believe to succeed

So... you've got to first "believe" so as to delude yourself that what you believe is real? Wow! Talk about creating a fantasy world... and then living in it.

2+2=4 ... whether you believe it or not because it is demonstrable and able to be proven without needing to first "believe" anything! Whereas spells, the occult, religion, and all the rest of such ridiculous nonsense cannot be demonstrated at all... except to those who have succeeded in first deluding themselves enough to "believe" in all such.

That's the difference between what's real and what is fantasy: what is real remains real whether you believe or not. What is not real only becomes so if you "believe" strongly enough (i.e., you succeed in deluding yourself). And is not this the foundation of ... insanity?

its always good to be a skeptic. however you do run the risk of being to skeptical and miss thinks that are pretty crazy when you think about them in an over all way.

I find the phenomama around fanatic believes in hoaxes to be proof that there is some element to the super natural that need just as much research as possible sightings.The things I may have witness as yet classifiable are the only things that keep me from
being a thick skeptic,that and I feel for a hoax once.

it is hard to find truly knowledgable people and genuine information on this topic.

I am open to many things as I am skeptic to many things as well that is just a defense to protect myself amongst people who I don't know well and have to earn my trust. We all cant be sheep and run to the slaughter either. I have an open mind and welcome someone that has the knowledge with his/her craft and willingness to teach someone.

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