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I shared my home with 2 cats for many years, up to 15 years for the oldest. Since they died I have found myself experiencing the feeling of one or both of them walking on the bed while I’m in it, either just waking or just falling asleep. I have come out of deep sleep aware something is walking up the bed, and when I move it stops, more like when I jump out of the bed in fear. There is no evidence of any living creatures having been there, no indentions on the bed covers.

Part of me notes it’s only when I am trying to sleep, or asleep and waking up that makes me think its dreams. I mean… I do not hear the soft footsteps, meows, or any other signs they are here with me when I am awake.

But the other part of me questions if it’s just a dream because it has been some time since the last one pasted away. When I feel them walking up the bed it shocks me so as it’s out of the blue for me to feel them, think of them. If it’s a dream I have no idea why I keep having it. I understand the grief of losing a pet, but time has past and I believe I have healed from my loss until I feel them walking up the bed toward me.

Since I’ve seen many threads talking about ghosts and haunting of places and such, I wondered if anyone else had heard or experienced anything like this and wish to share.

I am a animal person had plenty of pets growing up.. I had this really really great dog i loved a lot and even saved my life a few times.. I always think she visits me and keep me safe ..She might be dead but every time i think of her i know she is paying a visit..

Your pets are there be it in thought that everything reminds you of them.Or in spirit (no pun) I have a cat that has been gone for 14 years and every where i moved to he has been there.And I have 2 living cats who fight with him and chase him at first I to thought i was crazy and i didn't say anything
and one day some one mentioned that they saw a black cat with white paws dart down the hallway after it hissed at them.I dropped my coffee cup and laughed and hugged her and said whooot I am not crazy you saw my cat Smoky.
Shortly after that i began to get back in to my parapsychology studies and continue my ghost hunting.I had stopped because I thought i was mad.

it could be their spirits maybe they believe you need them at those points in your life. Look at how you are feeling when it happens are you sad happy emotional. Sometimes animals comfort us during times of emotional stress. Your cats might not want to give that up.

I suspect the key to this lies in your state of consciousness whenever this happens. It's when you're in a semi-dream state which is when the most random firings occur in the brain (excluding people with epilepsy). These random firings can stir up memories, sometimes thought forgotten and because they come from the seat of our consciousness, they can often seem intensely real. Ever have a dream, wake from it and note that it can take an hour or more for the feelings bestowed by the dream, fade.

I used to have a pair of rats which were given full run of my abode. It wasn't uncommon for one of them to push his way under the covers for a few minutes of affectionate petting before he was ready to resume his daily routines. After they died I had many experiences similar to yours but I have no reason to believe this was anything but the stirrings of recent memories and sensations brought on by random brain activity during sleep and the transitional periods between sleep and wakefulness.

People seem to have a natural tendency to want to apply supernatural explanations for things they don't fully understand. This is what leads to superstitions and often the intensely cruel and grotesque habits that follow such superstitions (i.e. tossing your children into volcanoes). I think it's wise to note that despite this tendency which extends throughout man's history, never has any supernatural explanation been confirmed and in every single case where confirmation has been reached, the answer has been purely natural.

I'm glad you enjoyed your cats and I understand that sometimes a pet can be the best company you could hope for. Your cats likely benefited from their relationship with you at least as much as you benefited from them. In my opinion, we need to take note of that when it comes to animals and attempt to get past our double-standards where some animals are marked for affection and close personal relationships while others are provided no more personal attention than is the fork they end up on.

yeah well there are many paranormal cases with animal haunting, and if the cats were very attached to you most likely they will stay and may not pass on to whatever afterlife there is

also i wouldnt get a new pet, because your ghost cats may find the need to harm it if they feel the jealousy

Some time ago I noticed that when I was in my kitchen ( where my cat when alive used to spend alot of time ) as I was going back and forth I kept stepping over several cats that were not there.

It only happened that one time, very unexpected but nice.

LovelyXDEATH35,

Can we be certain it wouldn't be more accurate to say, "there are many proclaimed paranormal cases of animal haunting, but still not a shred of credible evidence to support the assertions."?

I realize a lot of people want to believe in such things and many people simply believe what they want to believe with no regard for the evidence (i.e. Flat Earth Society, religions, etc.). The problem with such ideas is that they rarely stand up to any application of logic.

Perhaps we can have a look at the logic which would have to lie behind such ideas. People like to believe that they live on past the death of their bodies. There's no credible evidence to support such an idea, but certainly many people find this to be a preferable scenario to simply ceasing to exist. So they coin words like "spirit" and "soul" to represent the "them" they assert will continue to be "them" even after they're dead. Of course we can demonstrate that when the physical brain ceases to function, consciousness ceases, but that's back to that sticky "evidence" again.

Under such a concept, it's not hard to take it to the next level and proclaim that noises which are otherwise unexplained, are perhaps caused by these "spirits" or "souls". It's always easier to just make things up which go along with other things that appear to just be made up than to actually chase down the naturalistic explanations, and it's a lot more fun. And when someone has a great deal of trouble letting go of a loved-one who has died, it's easy to color their psychological self-deception as the loved-one attempting to contact them. If the unexplained phenomenon is malevolent, then it's easy to attribute it to "evil" spirits. Of course this requires the acceptance of good and evil as absolutes rather than the perspectives they really are, but that's not a difficult leap for most people.

So if people we loved persist in a non-physical form, yet can somehow manipulate the physical in attempts to remain in contact with us, why not animals for which we held a measure of love? That's easy enough to understand, right? I mean, there still isn't any credible evidence for any of these steps but if we can hold the first assertion without evidence, then why not the next, and the next, and the next?

But wait a moment... remember how benevolent phenomena are arbitrarily assigned to animals with which we shared a feeling of mutual affection? What about the billions of animals every year that we slaughter to put on our plates? If there is anything to this whole animal-haunting scenario, the vast majority of the human race should be constantly tormented and harassed by all of these animals who have no reason to hold anything but pure loathing for our entire species. So why aren't we bombarded throughout every moment of our lives by the "spirits" of these poor, tormented, mistreated and slaughtered creatures? Logic would suggest that ranchers and slaughterhouse workers would never be granted a moment of undisturbed sleep.

That's easy too, though. We're not really following any lines of logic. We're just making it up as we go along; evidence, be damned. So... wait, I have it! Only animals we love get to have souls. Those we love to eat are just lumps of meat waiting to be harvested.

We do make ourselves so very special through contortions of reality, avoidance of evidence and playing lines around logic. I just happen to think that we learn a lot more, do more for our fellow Earthlings and live better lives if we learn about reality, instead of how to try to shape reality to fit our desires.

some people live their lives incapable of opening their eyes to reality. and to some it would be dangerous to do so.

as to the original question, i like to believe that our old pets do come back to visit. it brings back a lot of the psychological comfort we felt when they were around.

more often than not, though, it's a fantasy of the mind. by fantasy, it dont mean necessarily making one's own. i mean that the mind just waking or falling asleep is in a different frame, and often, things remembered 'come back' to our awareness even though they have been gone for some time.

Pets have a way of letting you know that they are still here with you. I have a dog that when something is about to happen I see her running around the house and she has been gone for about 5 years now. When one of my sons got hurt while outside playing the dog came and licked the back of my leg.

So in answer to your question is yes I believe that when you have become attached to the pet that they will come back to check on you. Specially if you are having a rough go of things.

There is an interesting thing about reality; it always provides objective evidence for its truths -- always!

Never has anything ever been confirmed to exist, be true or correct without the existence of evidence. A lack of evidence is the reason most of us don't believe that Leprechauns, unicorns, mermaids, gremlins, goblins, fairies or 6-foot tall, purple feathered pickles exist. It's the reason we believe that elephants, platypus, beetles, eagles and alligators do exist.

To open one's eyes to reality is to not close them to the evidence or the significance of the evidence. When the only support provided for any assertion is purely subjective in nature, you have a falsehood being promoted by people who probably don't recognize it as a falsehood. Yet, just like those who insisted that the volcano wanted your virgin child, there are those who will insist that noting a lack of evidence makes you closed off to reality.

Reality presents evidence. Fallacy does not.

I do not see why pets can not still be here . I mean people believe in ghost why not ghost pets.

i believe its possible
a few years ago i accidently killed a mouse that i was trying to catch to put outside (i think it was the person that lived there before use pet mouse) anyways for as long as i lived there there would be tis little black shadow that would run across the living room a few time i yelled at my cat but she was asleep on the couch.

well i do not face these but i faced different just like

bulb blinked like it is a breathing like person do, and many more things happened which led me into this dark world and led me to work on conscious, led me to earn meditation, astral visits, and even balance of mind practice exercising concentration on the flame tip at the top, of a candle. I earned it not flickering for least twenty minutes and i do eject after it after doing 45 minutes to 1 hour exercise for 8 days. this resulted me to come t know whenever some oen if concentrate on me, my conscious sinks very fast and I feel I am snking very fast. that time i use mantra Oum t gain the surface (activemind state) again.

Well if there are such things as human ghosts, it would not surprise me if there were animal ghosts too. I once was once told that animals can actually see ghosts as well as sense when natural disasters will occur way before they do, meaning they are more sensitive to their surroundings.

Well in spirituality every living being have its spirits. its fourth dimension of the person.

it is its celestial body which flows alongwith conscious.

most definatley i also beleive this.

my late cat chico, he died 14 dec 6.30am 1999

I felt his little presence with me for a long time.

then, out of the blue, along came Manson, my BEAUTIFUL cat....

When he came to me, it was like he already knew me, i feel like chico was re born in manson

the exact same thing happened to a friend of mine, he felt that the spirit of his deceased dog had reincarnated into or was within his new dog!

Great thread :)

I believe that it could be possible that because you are in a vunerable state when just waking or going to sleep, maybe your subconcious thoughts are trying to tell you something.

Have you got a new pet since they died?

Maybe in your subconcious you feel lonely for them.

Or possibly, as suggested, it could be their spirit visiting you.. :)

I like many others have experienced the same thing. Sometimes when I am still awake lying in bed. The thing is I have a cat and I'll feel something on the bed, but he's sleeping somewhere else, and I have felt some resistence when moving, and indentations in the past.

There was a thread here not too long ago about why ghosts appear at night. This might help you out a little.

It could also be that you let your guard down when sleeping and it makes you notice them more than before. It could also be that perhaps that was what made them happiest. They loved to be next to you at night, watching over you or just being close to you.

There are tons of different reasons. To be honest, its really up to you to believe or not.

There are night and days even when i have this feeling that even though i am on my apartment by myself i feel that i am being watched by something that means me no harm.. I always hope to think it is my pets from the past coming to visit me or check up on me.. I do not get this feeling a lot mind you but it has happened a few times.

I literally just had this same conversation with someone the othr night ;}

Yes i do believe that our pets will sometimes come back to us from the spirit realm. You may feel them where they normally used to lay to sleep or if they slept on your bed a night you might feel as if something is next you but you see nothing else in your bed.

I think that is especially true if you are havig a hard time and they want to comfort you

or if they died tragically and you have a such a strong connection to your pet you will feel them around you

I myself have never had an experience dealing with phantom pets.


However, that does not affect my believe in them.

Animals too, have souls or attachments to this life.

So, like people, they are able to come back as ghosts.

That is ery true, i remeber there used to be a show on about a pet psychic and she was very good at helping owns get closure with their pets

I had a cat like that once. Her name was Indigo and she was killed after my father dropped a couch on her. I swear i saw and felt her for about 5 years before she finally moved on.

Obscuration,

Seeing that it has NEVER been confirmed that people have souls, spirits or any non-physical form, how can we then jump to the unfounded proclamation that animals have souls "too"?

Nothing supernatural or non-physical has EVER been confirmed. Evidences for these things always seem take the form of personal subjective interpretation -- the same kind of evidence that lead to belief in bad luck from breaking mirrors, spirits causing disease and severed rodent's foots bringing good luck. There isn't even enough objective evidence to allow for credible investigation. That's the same foundation we find for the assertion of mermaids, gremlins, Leprechauns, gods and sentient, pink, feathered pickles.

So how does one move from zero credible evidence to "since people have souls, animals do too"? People do not have souls. I can say that with all of the evidentiary confidence that allows me to say "Mermaids don't exist". And given that people are no more likely to have souls than mermaids are to exist, I find zero reason to believe there is any likelihood that animals have souls. They're like us because we are animals. But since we don't have souls (based on the complete lack of evidence suggesting we have souls), neither do other animal species.

Souls, spirits, angels, gods, demons and ghosts are all very old concepts which arose from the ignorance and superstitious nature of people thousands of years ago. These are people who thought their god would worry about what kind of underwear they wore, what days they did or didn't work, what direction they faced when they prayed, who they had sex with, and even what they did or didn't say -- blasphemy... BLASPHEMY!

The very concept of blasphemy is self-refuting. Here we suggest a god or gods who hold absolute knowledge of everything, promote kindness, wisdom and love; and yet, get as worked up as a spoiled child over a simple utterance of a severely lesser being. So angry that some are said to consider death to be an appropriate response.

As Twain put it; "Blasphemy? No, it is not blasphemy. If God is as vast as that, he is above blasphemy; if He is as little as that, He is beneath it."

Think about it. How enraged would you be to learn that a flea on the back of your neighbor's cat was making derogatory comments about you. Would it even be worth a second of your concern? If you sought out this dog so that you might seek through his fur in hope of finding and punishing that flea for his utterances, who would hold you to be any kind of superior being?

This is just a tiny sample of the silliness people begin to accept when they start imposing their thoughts upon their gods and accepting their opinions as being god-given. Unless you believe there are 400-ton, all-knowing, furry grasshoppers on the far side of the universe, then there is no real cause to believe in spirits or souls, human or non-human.

I believed such things (god, spirits, etc.), throughout the first 33-years of my life because I was raised with such beliefs. My life eventually hit a point which caused me to take very serious note that there is no evidence of any kind of benevolence outside of that applied by animals, to any part of the nature of the universe. If you're in the way of a tornado, guess what; it doesn't matter what you believe, to whom you pray or what magic trinket you rub. If you don't get out of harm's way, you'll be the next thing to get rubbed, (as in "out"). There is no benevolence to physical laws and there is no suspension of physical laws -- ever.

I have to assert that if humans would stop just accepting that which they find desirable or wondrous, simply on the basis of subjective interpretation; and begin to take note of objective evidence -- where it exists and where it doesn't -- it would be the greatest single step toward the advancement of human knowledge and ability ever to be seen in the entire history of our species.

LadyDarkRayne,

There is a rather significant difference between understanding the psychology of animal thought and behavior and being psychic. One who understands the pack rules and social mentality of a dog is far more likely to understand that animal's behavior than one who doesn't. I recognize that some people like to exploit the gullibility of the public at large, but that's what makes it our job to be interested enough to determine what has merit and what doesn't.

How much do you suppose this proclaimed "pet psychic" made by pedaling her supposed psychic abilities? How much would she have made if she simply explained that she'd studied the pack rules common to various canine species, threat gestures common to feline species and social customs of other animals like pigs and goats?

If I walk into a biker bar and flip a bird toward the first tattoo-covered, leather-encased, bearded biker I saw, I wouldn't have to be psychic to know how he's going to respond. The same holds true if I walked into a police station and started giving a loud speech about fascism in America. It's very simple psychology, it's not psychic ability.

The difference is that animals have different social customs and hierarchies within their social groups that people do. Once you understand those things, understanding the animal's behavior becomes far easier.

Yeah - I believe that there was such a loving bond between you and your cat that he's sticking around for awhile. Not bad...

I wonder; if I simply state , "I don't believe that's what's happening", does that hold more merit than if I explain why?

I ask this because the non-skeptics here seem to have nothing more to offer. It's just, "Yeah, I believe your pet's spirit is hanging around". And that's okay, it expresses an opinion, but nothing but an opinion.

I think the best explanation is to be found in the psychological need of the pet owner, not the supposed psychological need of the pet's "spirit". It's always difficult to let go of something we love. It's easier to try to hang on to it, even if we have to turn to proposed "mystical" realms to do so. But following what is easy has always lead to superstition while following the more difficult and credible path has always lead to truth.

I had 3 cats and a dog when I was growing up, and loved them all dearly. I still think about them and miss them. I do think they are in a happy "afterlife" of some sorts, but I haven't been able to feel their presence, which makes me sort of sad.

For a while after my kitten died I would sense she was around...even now I sometimes get a feeling that she's looking in on us, ready to pounce on our feet :-D My living cat occasionally stares and 'chirrups' at nothing...I think she's seeing Missy...

Could be as having that sensitivity humans don't that could definitely be the case.

Well they were very close, and animals tend to pick up more on spirits and presences anyway due to their lack of logical brain.

Believe they have a energy spirit so it can and does come back. The pet loved you alive why would that feeling die ?
Can see them" popping" back in our lives at times. Mine have.

I belive that if you and your pet has a stong enough bond the pet will stay with you even after deth.

I was an still are a animal person when i was younger i had several cats an fish and a dog.I now have 2 cats that are black and white an they r so spoiled.

I use to have a cat named Merlin, and he use to lay across the front of my neck when he slept,then someone ran him over.. Afew days after he got hit, I couldnt sleep without him on my neck and I felt something crawl up on my neck, but nothing was there.. It happened ever night until I moved out.. And I know it was my cat..

I dont know when my thoughts get when deeper stage, the tubelight gives one blink. Am I watched by others? or its my own pulsing?

For those who believe loved pets stay around us after they die, can you offer an explanation as to why animals which live in horrendous conditions, are treated like a product and then slaughtered and sold for food, don't haunt us? If there is anything to the idea that animals (any animals, including people), have spirits which can linger around, it would seem to make little sense to assume that only animals who like us would pat us visits from their after-life. As an overall average (in the U.S.), each person eats about 29 complete animals each year. That means if you're 20-years old, you should have about 580 animal spirits haunting you through every moment of every day and night.

As I mentioned before, ranchers and slaughterhouse workers should never have half a moments peace. Yet this doesn't seem to happen. So doesn't that tend to suggest that animals don't have spirits which can haunt us or stick close to us after death? If you don't think so, please explain.

As for "spirit energy", energy is physical. Matter and energy are two forms of the same thing so if a spirit is energy, it's physical and fully detectable as physical. Yet I know of not a single instance where a spirit or soul has ever been detected in any credible manner.

Well all those who slaughtered their own kind during World War 2 felt no remorse and were not haunted by it, so it is no different when it comes to animals, humans are the most senseless of creatures.

I cannot say that I have had this happen but I can"t see why the pets can't come back after all the are living beings to

I believe that animals, Cats especially, have more magick in them than we all realize. I can more than see them coming back, or at least watching over you in death as they did in life. If a bond is that great, anything is possible.

well 9 times out of 10 it is easer for a lost or depearted loved one even a animal to appear there with you in spirit when your full rellaxed and near sleepy as to daylight when your awake you more fixed on other this and its easy to miss it all together. it is highly possible that they are there gaurding you in spirit cause they love you so much and you can really hear the dead or lost speak or meow unless they get in your dreams. now thoo this theory of mine has flaws its just what i beleave.

I cant see why animals cant come back to be with us, but humans can..

It could be either they are there in sprirt since that is the only place they know and are familiar with, or it is just that you had them so long that your sensing them being there and in actuality they are not. IT is because you aslo are famliar with them being there for so many years that you still sense or feel them, yet they are not.

I mean I feel an animal has spirit same as we do, yet it is also like when someone feels a missing limb that itches and well the arm or leg is no longer there, a Phantom feeling or sensing, it could be either or in my opinion, You will just have to find a way to know or just be glad that you so feel them with you even in their absence. just how I look at it .

beastt...can you imagine how many scorpions must wish to haunt me?

what about pest control ppl.. do we think that they are haunted by the billions of insects they murder?

Absolutely, Scarlett. I think you're right on the money! You too, KeptDarkSecret.

I remember when I first had to start wearing glasses. They felt foreign and obvious. After a while I got used to them but then sometimes after I took them off, I thought I still felt them on my face. The same thing happened when I had to wear that obnoxious orthodontic apparatus.

How many of us haven't worn some special piece of jewelry, a helmet, a pair of light gloves or some other item, for so long that after we took it off, it still feels like we're wearing it?

Ever roller skate for a few hours? When you stop, you still feel like you're gliding along for several minutes.

It's all the same thing. Were the glasses still with me in spirit? Is the necklace you took off for a shower haunting you 30-minutes later when you thought you felt it around your neck but discovered you'd forgotten to put it back on? Do roller skates have a soul?

It's always easy to take note of something we don't understand and then jump to the first conclusion we can contemplate and defiantly insist that's the proper explanation. But history continually demonstrates that such a path leads away from truth and an understanding of reality. If we're interested in truths, we have to be willing to accept even those truths contrary to what we'd hoped. There is likely a very good reason that while spirits, souls and ghosts have been suspected for thousands of years, never has any credible evidence for them been found. Meanwhile, for those things which actually do exist, evidence leads to their discovery in a relatively short period of time. Evidence precedes discovery. When subjective implication precedes evidence, the odds of every finding the implication points to truth are almost nil.

Do I think it would be wonderful to live on past this body? Absolutely! Do I find any evidence to support the idea that it might actually happen? No, not a shred. Live your life for today -- for this life. ALL of the credible evidence tells us it's all you'll ever have. Love your pets for today. When they're gone, they're gone. Connect with the fact that the things with the most value are rare and finite. That which is endless and common becomes valueless and blase'.

After one of my cats died...late at night she would still curl up on the bed with me...the first time it happened i flipped out but she was always curling up along my side. It happened to my sister too after i moved out and she stayed in my room.

The connection we have or even our pets have to places lasts in ways we may never understand

There is a function of the mind called "confirmation-bias". It's simply finding a way to believe what we want to believe, even when rational, objective analysis of the evidence tells us otherwise.

If a person believes in the power of prayer, they'll proclaim the "power of prayer" whenever things go as they'd hoped. If things go counter to what they'd hoped, even after they prayed, it's just the object of their prayers saying "no". Now apply that same idea to a coin. In fact, grab a coin right now. Take a marker and put an "X" on it or drill a hole through it or file a notch in the rim. Now pray to it.

Just remember to utilize precisely the same kind of confirmation-bias applied to gods, spirits, angels, demons, etc. If you get what you want, it was the coin proving it's power. If you don't get what you wanted, it was the coin saying, "no". Now note the difference between the outcome when praying to the coin, and when praying to that to which you usually pray.

See how well confirmation-bias works to confirm what you wanted to believe?

Watch how people are doing exactly the same thing in this thread. If a pet loved us and we have such strong memories of them that we think we feel them around us, then that's the conclusion people jump to and defend. But if I turn that around and show that billions of animals have nothing but reason to hate and loathe us, those same people don't want to apply the same reasoning. And why not? Simple -- because it doesn't support what they wanted to believe. But if animals stay with us in spirit because they loved us, then we must accept the same concepts when we provide animals with reason to do nothing but hate us. And for most of us, that's the situation with the vast majority of the animals we affect. How many of us average 29 beloved pets or more each year? As I pointed out before, that's the number of animals who live tormented lives under absolute cruelty and are then slaughtered so that their flesh can be placed on display for your dollar to purchase. And that dollar goes into the pockets of those who have treated these creatures with such a total absence of anything even resembling compassion.

If animals have any cause to stay with us after death, then we have much to fear and should be tortured by their continual haunting. That doesn't happen which suggests that animals don't have souls or spirits and can't remain with us after they die. Just as with people, they have one life. And when we rob them of that one life, we've taken from them everything they might possibly ever know and love.

You made an excellent point, Scarlett. In my opinion, many would do very well to carefully consider it before jumping to the common conclusion I see here.

AlexandriasAwakening,

Okay, now apply the same reasoning to animals with no reason to hold affection for you.

Have you ever glanced into a dark hallway and seen an angry bull with bright red, glowing eyes charging at you, then fade into nothing? Have you ever heard a chicken clucking or cackling maniacally from inside a room you know is empty? Do you continually hear the bleating of wounded sheep in your ears?

Have you ever been lying in bed next to your spouse or mate and could simply feel them there even though you weren't touching? How many of those times have you turned to touch them only to find they weren't there? One could proclaim that the bond is so strong, that you feel them with you even when they aren't there. But when you feel a co-worker you hate, standing behind you and reading over your shoulder and finally turn to ask them to leave and find they're not there, do you apply the same reasoning? Is the hatred between you so strong that you're continually connected even when not in physical proximity? Or have you simply fooled yourself in both situations?

After four years of living with a girl I loved more than I ever thought possible, she found someone else and asked me to leave. I was crushed. But there were many times when I would be lying in bed (a mat actually), and I could feel her arm around me. Other times I could simply feel her pressing against my back. Was it her living spirit wanting to be with me? Or does it make more sense to take note of the fact that she went so far as to try to get me fired from the place where we both worked because I was a constant reminder that her she and her new love-interest had lied, constructed a conspiracy and even betrayed his wife in order to get what they wanted?

She had zero desire to be with me and though that still hurts to this day, there is no rational way to conclude that what I felt when I was lying half-conscious was other than my psyche simply feeding me what I wanted.

You want it one way when you like the idea and another way when you don't. That's confirmation-bias and it's allowing you to lie to yourself. That's why when we seek truth, we must do so objectively. Anything else is a falsehood. Use subjectivity when you seek pacification and objectivity when you seek the truth.

Thanks to everyone who had posted as reading these has given me plenty to consider.

One of my cats died suddenly while I was away on vacation and I never got to say goodbye to him. My sister had to deal with his death, and the grief that his sister cat had to go thru and that pasted away within a year of his death. Might be me not having the opportunity to say good bye to him, not having that last hug as they put him to sleep that is staying on my mind.

As far as new pets the answer is no, not at this time.

Again thank you to all who had offered help with my question.

I know exactly what you must have gone through as at times we bond with pets more than people and nothing could make more sense as the sensitivity animaks possess is at times disarming

Vampirewitch39,

Thank you for leading us into this discussion. Sometimes the answers aren't what we want them to be. I can state this only for myself but I'd rather have an unpleasant truth than a pacifying lie.

That you even held such affection for your pet speaks very well of you. So many people today seem to see their pets much as they would a pair of shoes -- simply an object for their use.

It's refreshing to see a gathering of people who recognize that animals are sentient loving individuals. Hopefully, we're moving closer to the day when we can apply that to all animals an not just the ones we select to serve as pets.

Animals are better than people for they do not seek revenge. A human gets hurts will waits years to get even. A animal will defend itself &clan but never plot to get even> So that is why only a love one will come back to you. A pure love not tainted with the ways of revenge, jealousy ect.

Non-human animals react differently than human animals. But that doesn't mean they don't seek revenge, political power, that they don't grieve, experience hatred or even kill just for the sake of killing or territory. Indeed, animals have been observed doing all of these things.

The problem in understanding animals seems to begin when people draw a line between animals and humans. There is no such line. We are animals in every sense. We have our thoughts, behaviors and customs just as do many other animal species. If we forget that we are but one more species of animal or that each species has certain unique behaviors and abilities, misunderstanding follows. And it is largely this misunderstanding which allows us to treat non-human animals with such horrendous disregard, cruelty and ignorance.

i've never had one but i do know of others that have had them

umm, Beastt17, I've heard a chicken clucking. I think Its the Ghost of KFC.

I believe in phantom pets, I have had a cat die, not long ago and believe he reincarnated into one of my new animals, My new cat has the same traits as he did. It is weird and every now and then the dog I had shane my greatdane that died out front of my home, I hear bark there are no other dogs in the area,

Beastt17 -


It's never not been proven either. Some people don't need scientific facts to believe in something.

They need just that. Belief.

Thats some freaky stuff...

Here is my freaky contribution. I raised a gray squirrel from an infant. He was with me 7 1/2 years as my constant companion. I still feel his weight on my right shoulder where he rode around the house with me. I feel he is still with me in spirit.

This is another one of my conflicts that I deal with. Is there a cat heaven? A bunny heaven? A cockroach heaven? Or just the cute animals heaven? The animal lover inside of me wants to believe there is a place for all living things, but where is that line drawn? or is it just humans that get to move on, and if so, why not other animals? It does make it easier to simply say all living things simply cease to exist, period. Not very comforting to me though.

Maybe the poem "Rainbow bridge" will help. LINK

It frequently brings a tear to my eye.

Yeah - the Rainbow Bridge is where all pets go after they die - Heaven for them...

very well said ,gealachlass
and yes the rainbowbridge brings tears to my eyes every now and then when i come across it

Yes one of my cats passed away from cancer and ever since it likes to visit and I don't just mean, me in my dreams.

I believe that until you are ready to let them go, they will appear to you. When you do let them go they will move on from here.

ONYXCRUISER,

By what evidence do you find it clear that animals have souls?

People should really take note that people have been asserting this kind of thing throughout human history -- tens of thousands of years. And yet in all of that time, it's never been shown to be anything more than an assertion.

In the mean-time, science has been around as a developed methodology for around 400-500 years and in that time, we've learned about the composition of stars thousands of light-years away, decoded the chemical composition of DNA, learned to create untold miles of electrical circuitry on a single chip of silicon which has wired the world into a single computer network, sent men to live in space, learned to make exact duplicates of animals and plants, and can generate fluctuations in electro-magnetic signals which can carry advanced information billions of miles.

Still not a shred of evidence for spirits, souls or the proclaimed "energy" they produce.

Doesn't that give you substantial room for doubt concerning the proclaimed spirits? I mean, it's fairly clear they're inseparable from other ancient superstitions born from a time of rather severe ignorance. Why still cling to such things today when there remains not a shred of credible evidence?

...and if the only "evidence" anyone can offer for these types of assertions is that they think the animal is still around them in some form, how does that suggest an animal heaven?

It actually seems to suggest quite the opposite. If they're still here, then they're not in animal heaven. If they're in animal heaven, then they're not still here.

And once again; how do you ignore all of the animals (billions per year), who have reason for nothing but blood-thirsty hatred for man, yet people don't claim to be haunted by benevolent animal spirits?

This has all the ear-marks of a standard, "I think it would be really cool, therefore, it's true", type of assertion. If not, how am I wrong about that?

Beastt17 you obviously have never had a bond with a pet as strong as many here. Or had a familiar as many magick users do. Many will tell that this is proof enough to them that animals have souls. I did not believe until I found my pet/familiar.

Science has not opened all doors or been able to disprove the existence of souls. Listen and learn, friend. The wise person observes patiently and then speaks wisely from experience.

I'm of the consensus that if people have souls, so do animals.

You seem to forget that, not knowing me, you can only speak from a position of ignorance. What makes you think I've never had a strong bond with a pet? You couldn't be more wrong.

I tend to love all animals and I've had some amazingly affectionate and intuitive pets over the years. I've formed very close relationships with many of them. I had a dog who thought the sun rose and set on me. I've had rats that couldn't seem to get through their day without crawling up the side of my chair, plopping down in the center of my magazine, (or whatever else might have split my attention), and demanded to be petted and talked to until they'd had their fill. Only then would they go back about their daily routines. I cried quietly to myself when they died. But I didn't bullshit myself about the fact that they were dead and gone.

I've raised wild rabbits that were separated from their mothers and given them the run of my home (because I don't think it's fair to confine wild animals to tiny cages). I cried when it came time to turn them loose because I couldn't shake the image of them huddled so tightly into the corner of the box they were in. They were terrified of the wide, open outdoors. And I knew there existed good reason for that fear. They would be fending for themselves, finding their own food and water and attempting to evade, dogs, coyotes and mountain lions. No matter how much I knew they were wild creatures and needed to live free, I couldn't stop remembering holding each one of them as a tiny frightened ball of fur, and painstakingly feeding them through a dropper. I remember one of them curling up in my hand -- the closest thing to a mother it likely remembered, and then stretching out comfortably across my hand in care-free comfort and security as it slept for two hours.

I get the whole human/non-human bond. I really do. In fact, I probably have a much more firm grasp on that than do people who want to cuddle and kiss one animal while frying up another for their lunch. I don't eat animals because they're sentient, intelligent, feeling creatures. I don't wear their skins. So please don't jump to conclusions based on your ignorance of my character, beliefs and experiences just because I see the holes in the ideas being presented here.

What I am doing that others aren't is to pay attention to what has been demonstrated over, and over, and over, and over when it comes to people's subjective interpretations of their experiences. Never has anyone's subjective interpretation been shown to be correct unless there was also objective evidence to support it -- NEVER.

That's a pretty substantial fact to simply hand-wave and dismiss. And I can only suggest that people are ignoring it because otherwise, they'd have to admit that the beliefs they "want" to hold are totally unsupportable and demonstrably incorrect. It's not about truth or reality or understanding for most people: this appears to be about nothing more than pacifying one's affectionately-held beliefs, despite their total lack of veracity.

If you can carry a heavy suitcase for 20-minutes and then feel like you're still carrying it after you've obviously put it down, then you can think you've felt your cat curling up against you when it hasn't and it means nothing more than it did with the suitcase. And the silly thing is, you all know you've had these other experiences. You've ridden a motorcycle for hours and felt like the throttle was still in your hand or you've taken off a pair of glasses or a hat and felt like it was still on your head. You've skated for hours and when you take the skates off, you still feel like you're gliding. Some have worn a cast for weeks and for days after it was removed, you still felt it on your limb. This isn't mystical or unexplainable. It's fully explained through completely naturalistic means and it has nothing to do with your pet hanging around because it's "spirit" can't cope with parting with you.

You know these things happen but it's not fun or pacifying to conclude that the cast, or your glasses, your hat, your skates or your throttle held such affection for you that it won't leave you. So you ignore the obvious and continue to hold the conclusion you prefer. But the evidence shows that you're wrong.

And every single study I've ever seen on the power of suggestion, placebo-effect or any other form of subjectively held belief and self-delusion clearly demonstrates that people are very prone to experiencing what they want and interpreting their experiences to fit what they WANT to believe. That's why we have hundreds of different religions and billions of different followers of those religions; all proclaiming that their personal subjective interpretations indicate their chosen god and never any other god. It's the same kind of experience. Only the subjective interpretation differs. And yet, it's not possible for them to all be correct.

When we test these things we always find exactly the same thing. People let their subjective wants, desires and beliefs transform their experiences, and then defiantly insist that they, rather than the objective evidence, are correct. Give a patient a medication that isn't really medicine, and as long as they don't know, the odds are they're going to claim that it helped. Perform a sham surgical technique and most will agree that the surgery offer relief to their condition. Give one party-goer drinks devoid of alcohol and they'll act just as drunk as everyone else. Tell someone they're drinking special water than can help them to run faster and most will actually run faster, even when you're only giving them tap-water.

Nothing about any of the assertions I've seen so far indicate that they're other than simply desire, interpreted as reality, to the detriment of knowledge.

Not accepting the truth does nothing to change the truth. It only makes truth beyond your grasp. This is simply a matter where people accept something as truth, and then reject demonstrable truth simply because it disagrees with their adopted belief.

But the world isn't flat, it isn't orbited by the sun, species don't poof into existence and when your pets die, their consciousness dies with them. They're gone. Enjoy the time you had with them. Enjoy their memories. realize that any tears you shed for them is testament to your love for them. Stop eating them. Accept and explore reality and be willing to recognize even affectionately-held beliefs as fiction when they are demonstrated to be false.

I would agree, Isis. We're animals -- they're animals. There's no rational cause to believe that we would have souls and they wouldn't. Most animals have eyes, ears, limbs, hearts, livers and mouths. We have them; they have them.

But the clincher is this; there's no rational cause to believe that people have souls so there's no reason to believe that non-human animals have souls.

i also had a beloved pet die when i was 18. for many
years after i still felt his presense around me. i believe
that all creatures great and small have souls. and therefore could still visit us when they pass

again stating that this is what makes the forum posts so much fun, we are all entitled to our own opinions and theories of what we think of each subject matter being discussed.

I had my deceased German Shepard's ghost come running up my driveway about a year after his death.

I even dreamed about my puppy, about 2 years before I got her.

I always have dejavu daily, and it because I have had a dream about it.

Beastt17...that's why I said 'if' in my statement...I'm not sure if we have souls or not. Still trying to figure that out...

Maybe they just really really love you. lol

I definitely believe it could be your cat coming to visit you and maybe checking up on you.

The closest thing I've had to this sort of experience is one day shortly after my son had taken 3 of our black cats with him when he moved out, I saw one of them again. He ran through the bedroom and across the living room and into the kitchen like he always did when he was playing here. I was startled to say the least. I found out a short time later that he had been hit by a car at that precise moment. I think he wanted to come back home when that happened.

He was always my little shadow because I saved his life once. He had crawled into the dryer to get warm one day I guess. Well, the wash was tossed into the dryer and started up. I heard a funny sounding thump coming from the laundry room and asked my son what on earth he was drying. When he said it was towels, I went to check out the dryer. I found one very dizzy rather dry mouthed cat in there and dragged him out. I forced some water past he lips and turned the fan on to help him cool off. I really think if he'd been in there much longer he'd have been a goner. He followed me everywhere after that.

If human spirits can linger, so can animals. Pets are family members. With the love a dog or cat can get & give, I think it would be hard for their spirit to leave the home.

LadyDarkRayne,

Re: "again stating that this is what makes the forum posts so much fun, we are all entitled to our own opinions and theories of what we think of each subject matter being discussed."
---

Certainly we can all have our own opinions and beliefs but as for theories, a "theory" is a concept which is not only supportable, but supported by all of the evidence. When one then runs from a request for evidence, at the very least, they should recognize that their beliefs don't qualify as a theory.

I simply find things which are supportable to be far more credible than things that are simply statements of belief. The typical "I believe X" or "I believe Y" doesn't hold any compelling value except for those who choose their beliefs based on popularity. I prefer those who follow "I believe" with a "because".

VampyrPulse,

Re: "If human spirits can linger, so can animals. Pets are family members. With the love a dog or cat can get & give, I think it would be hard for their spirit to leave the home."

I would submit that this jumps the starting gate a bit. Before even talking about whether or not human spirits can linger, is it not appropriate to try to determine whether or not humans have spirits?

So far as I know, there isn't any credible evidence to support the idea of human spirits. The only thing behind it seems to be tens of thousands of years of various after-life beliefs and a lot of unsupported assertion, all of which stemmed from ancient ignorance.

If we can once show that humans have spirits, only then does it become fruitful to talk about whether or not those spirits can linger and from that point, to talk about whether other species have spirits and whether those spirits can also linger.

As is, it's a bit like trying to sell your dark matter on eBay before anyone has ever confirmed the existence of dark matter. Then again, there is a lot of evidence for dark matter, and none of any credibility for spirits.

Just because science or facts cannot explain something doesn't mean it isn't true or can't exist.

if people believe in ghosts why not in there pets I mean any thing is possible in seeing when they have past from this world

Obscuration,

Here's your chance to demonstrate your assertion to be true. Give us one example of something science can't explain that has been confirmed to be true.

Obscuration,

More appropriately stated; give us one example of anything confirmed to be true which science is not equipped to explain. In other words, something which violates the laws of physics and lies outside the potential of science to explain.

...Just one thing.

So would it then be safe to say that the statement, "Just because science or facts cannot explain something doesn't mean it isn't true or can't exist", is unsupportable?

I had a wolf/german shepard he recently died and i feel him near me all the time it like he protects my house still.

DarkAitka,

The question becomes; do you just feel him, or is he really there. The evidence supports the former and refutes the latter.

Thomas our cat was the first cat we got and he out lived all the cats we had and i still feel that hes about, i see him about but hes not if you get me, he was the best a stoner cat lol, but hes still about!

How often has the evidence "I feel" accompanied by no objective evidence, ever been demonstrated to be correct. I'm sure there must be at least one or two examples. Can anyone think of any instances?

ive seen tow ghost cats belonging to my best friends mother.
one was a big white cat i saw sitting on a chest of drawers when we where rehersing a play.she said he was called kaiser and was her cat in the 50s.he always sat there when some social activity was going on.one woman was there at the time,and jumped back and shrieked and said she could see a light in my eyes at the time.

I personally have never had this experience myself but i do believe that it is entirely possible.There are times when i do think that there is something very calming and soothing beside me.At times i can even swear i almost feel something slithering up my arm and around my neck.

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I have taken great joy reading them, seeing how others answer my question.

Thank you again. :)

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