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This subject has always intrigued me so I thought I might bring it up.I would however like to refrain from any religous "wars" here if possible,and will close the thread at the first sign of it..What I would like to ask is what everyone's thoughts as to what the covenant might actually be..Any ideas?

According to the Old Testament, the covenant was the agreement between God and Man that all children of Abraham would worship the "One True God". It was first agreed upon through circumcision. The second covenant was the compilation of the several objects placed within the Ark built by moses: Aaron's rod, an omer of manna which sustained the children of Israel through the desert, and the two stone tablets known as the Ten Commandments.

According to Christianity, the third covenant was Jesus himself.

Well, I only know what history has recorded it to be, the holder of the original 10 commandments. I've always wondered though, why 10? Why not 9 or 11? Does God like a round number? Not trying to be funny, I've just always been baffled by that.

Thanks for these great posts all. While I am aware of the history and Christian beliefs,what Im really wondering is how it might work.I guess we would need to take into account the contents..or proposed contents.

Guess I will look at Aron's rod first.What is it exactly?

Aaron's rod was the magical stick that Aaron, Moses' brother, used to demonstrate Moses' power to Pharoah. It was said to have sprouted flowers that bloomed forever.

Well well,now isnt that interesting.At least from my standpoint.(The whole resonance thing..once again)
Thank you so much for that info.
Because I find the very fact you mention flowers blooming.Remeber Hopi corn being germinated by sound?

Didn't Mythbusters do a segement on the ark and early batteries???

Oh I dont know,did they? tell me more please.

If memory serves they were trying to correlate the taboo of touching the ark to having the gold skin charged... can't find it on YouTube though...

Sounds like a myth because and electrical arc and the ark are coincidentally alike words.

I don't remember if it was myth busters or not but I do remember a national geographic or history channel doing a documentary on it one time will see if I can find it again.

Thanks Cheetah..that would be great.
Anansi...are you familiar with magnetic induction?
Or the coil and its representation?

yes, and if you bring up faraday's law, I'll start having flashbacks of school. :)

This is personal theory only. We have no true way of knowing why there was only ten and not 9 or 11. By the time the Ten Commandments were written, the Hebrews were worshiping "God" who was referred to by the name of Baal. In ancient Mesopotamia, Baal was represented by the number 10.

Libellus XIII of the Corpus Hermeticum talks about how the Ten Powers of God cleanse the twelve irrational torments of matter. Man, being made of matter, is therefor represented by the number 12.Libellus XIII

The two numbers, ten and twelve, are very prominent in Astrology. The theory follows the Pythagorean concept of numbers of increasing and decreasing fortune. Increasing fortune regarding numbers means that the factors of the number add up to something greater than the original number. For instance, the factors of 12 are 2,3,4, and 6. Added together they equal 15.

The number 10 however is of decreasing fortune. This means the factors of 10, 2+5=7. So the factors add up to something less than the original number.

"Increasing fortune" means to create more of something, whereas "decreasing fortune" means to limit or destroy something.

The Ten Commandments were a way of limiting the garishness that polite society would come to view as excess and detrimental to a productive society.

I see the ark as one of the greatest marketing tour ever.. I mean to have the Ark.. In Your Town! That was just so much Holiness.

If it was ever real I daresay it held things considered important to the people of the time, much as later on churches had relics of the saints etc.

People had need of a reminder as it were, perhaps that was it's main function.

Power mongers were as much in evidence in those days as they are now, I can imagine that for some it was held precious not because of anything Godly but becuase of things much more earthly.

Here is part of 1 of 27 videos on youtube these might be of interet to you Oceanne.

I've just had a look at the video....am I right in thinking Mr Grey has said it has been found....then actually it can't yet be made public ?

He ties in the assassination too...maybe that should be in Dabblers conspiracy thread.

Personally I'm not much impressed by him...I wont be buying the book.

I haven't been too impressed by Grey either but it was just a start on searching for more information.

Here is another one that ties the rod and the ark together.

Another one to look at this one is a description as best as can be given about the ark. Now off to find the link on National Geographic.

Whoo hoo this is great,thank you everyone.
I had just been looking into a little of what you were mentionong Jesius,and I find the number correlations , math and possible physics of this thing pretty substancial really so far.But am still just starting into it,so bear with me on anything remotely equating an opinion,although I do have some ideas forming.....Again Cheetah,the 10 comes up,if you know what I mean.
And the vids..sure,we might not find exactly what we are looking for or trying to explain when using vids,but thats fine..its all a great start for me.Good info all please keep it coming...
And the power and marketing..always a factor isnt it?Somehow or another?

Btw,this rod was made of Almond wood?

It would make great sense that the 10 commandments are put away safely. For those times an arc / chest would be considered strong &sturdy enough for such an important article.

Very true...and isnt it supposedly somewhere in Ethiopia?In a little temple or something?Some how I doubt that tho.

The video says Israel has the whole kit.

Yes,and they say the evidence is strong..but no one has been allowed to see it.And thats the same with the Ethiopians..that to me is a bit off.

I honestly do not know if they are right as to where the ark is. There have been a few different sitings of it according to some archeologists. But I am like you Oceanne I some how doubt it.

You know the holy water thing does spark a curiousity with the ark and the magicks combined.

Thats just it Cheetah,nobody does.And the ones who claim to have it,arent proving it...which I think is fishy.

And yes,its sparked my curiosity too,and set me up for a whole lot more research..
And the thing almost sounds as though its some kind of WMD in ways.

umm, please explain WMD?

Weapon of mass destruction...I mean the staff.But yeah,thats way out there.

Ok I understand what you are saying now. But if that were the case could the rod be associated with the 10 plagues or anything else like that?

Could very well be,I would say it is something to check,thats for sure..given the symbolism of the design itself,which is not unlike the medical staff..but I've never really looked into it closely to be honest, other than the basic info.But believe me,I am now.

Two videos above depict it's mythological importance to both Islam and Judaism. I remember the controversy now over the Temple on the Mound, and also the tiny Jewish sect in Ethiopia claiming to be a lost tribe of Hebrews.

The Ark's spiritual power holds sway over both monotheistic religions for it's presumed invocation of MASSIVE CATASTROPHE for humans. Now, THAT part is interesting.

Besides the ark itself, there's probably a stick and some carved tablets inside describing all manner of hideous punishments the ancient macho god will bring down on human heads just like we've always been told. If we're lucky there might be a collection of dried foreskin from all those ritual circumcisions.

According to the vid, there are several in Etheopia....just not the main one.

Oh just wonderful..foreskins...now thats a real treasure.
Personally,I thought that was a little amusing that there are several in Ethiopia.
However,I too find that interesting,the proposal that somekind of impliment of destruction might be in there.

I think that the African sect claiming to be one of the Lost Tribes was proven by genetics to be descendants of the Children of Israel.

As for the Ark in Ethiopia: that legend is perpetuated by the myth that Solomon's love-lust was from Ethiopia. Solomon's Temple was built for the purpose of housing the Ark. Once the Ark was placed in the Sanctum Sanctorum, the chamber filled with smoke, allegedly the physical representation of God. It was so filled with smoke that noone could remain in the chamber.

My peronal theory is that this was a literal smoke screen, because from that day on only one person was ever allowed into the Sanctum Sanctorum (the High Priest of the Levites), and even then only one day out of the year. A rope would be tied to his waist with his assistant holding the other end. This was to avoid the possibility of the assistant running into the Sanctum Sanctorum under the guise of making sure his master was ok. In the event he questioned the safety or health of the Priest, the assistant could just pull on the rope.

In keeping with this tradition, the Ethiopian sect claiming to have the Ark do something similar.

So the Ark never remained in the Sanctum Sanctorum, and was never carried away to Babylon when the Temple was decimated. I think that King Hiram took it back to Phoenicia when the Temple was completed.

The original Ark was made of Acacia wood and the gold overlay was very thin, so if the Ark was hidden away somewhere it would have collapsed by now after thousands of years of decay.

Here is some insight on the Jewish version of the Ark

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/ark.html - Cached

It explains how and why it was built. I wish I actually knew more yet I am reading up on the Ark and I also would like to know why only 10 commandments yet, that also will be revealed as well I am sure. as always Oceane you have great thread / Topics to discuss, always making us work that brain :)

Great info, Jesuis.

If the Ark were ever discovered, I don't think we'd find an actual implement other than the aforementioned remains of "holy" relics.

Perhaps, the relics were separated into different arks, and this would explain the multiple sightings.

All of this reminds of Pandora's Box.

Also, in Catholism there's the smoke thing - kind of large, gold incense diffuser hanging from a chain - the priest waves around the church --- at Easter, I think. Probably related to the smoke screen belief.

Astouniching responses to this post, baffles the mind and yet to wonder that the ark would be found, it is said to hold the power of god within it, a trap much like pandoras box.

At least believers back in the day had something shown to them, even the "holy" fakirs had a performance back then, now it is all claims that are made, claims that could be easily supported.. it is not only non-believers that would like to scrutinize such things that are claimed to support arceologically a very significant supporting item, yet just like the Vatacin, with all the treasures/artifacts that once toured, they are now "sacred", and preserved..? "?"!

I agree Dab,the whole fact it is kept hidden just doesnt sit right with me.Because if the believers really believe in what it is supposed to do,they would make sure the world knew they had it..or at least thats what I feel.
Pandora's box..funny that is mentioned,because I have thought that very thing.
All full of Ebola and other dreadfull, hemoragic diseases..and the rod holds the only cure.
Just kidding..

I have also always heard that if found then the holder would have all the powers there are in the universe not sure if that is true seeing as no one has found it .. I think the ideal is scary why would you want to have so much power it would be overwhelming and possibly kill you. any hoo.. I enjoyed this thread interesting post and info here.

The escalation of belief, is shown by ^ the above post. it is one thing for people to accept (on faith) that an artifact is perhaps kept in a secret location. That is not too far-out (persey), but then right after one accepts, or pronounces their belief that it could exist.. then someone comes along with.. "It gives the holder/beholder mystic/holy powers." The Chain effect of beliefs, and fringe expansionalist.

Thank you Warrior,glad you are enjoying the thread.:)

The holy water..Im not sure how it all went down and the theory behind Christians using it,but what got me thinking about it was the presence of water around the lines and intersections where chapels were built etc.And the healing properties that were supposed to be in those waters.Since the water was considered sacred ,maybe the holy water thing stemed from that..kinda

i think even if it is against ones faith to believe or to disbelieve i still think the AOC does have historical significance in one way or another.

i read a book which says its in axum ethopia.i used to have a penfriend who lived there.they say it has a will of its own and it can destroy people who mess with it.the design is egyptian,as all holy caskets had the same design and culturally the isrealites where egyptian.

Isn't it interesting though how most of these relics miraculously disappear and there are all these legends about them. I have read many about the Arc of the Covenant. I believe Hitler hunted for many of these types of artifacts. I also read the Ethiopia connection and that it was in the Holy of Holies. I also read recently that the story about the ten commandments wasn't exactly correct but can't remember if I saved it and if I did where it is. I will look for it but can't guarantee I will find it :) You have no idea how many saved notes I have.

In regard to the idea that the Ark was an early form of battery, I've seen at least one of the documentaries on this and it's more accurate to suggest that it was an early capacitor.

This is based on its construction as described in the Bible and it's function, again, as described in the Bible.

It was said to be a wooden box, lined with gold on the inside as well as the outside. All that is required to build a capacitor are two conductors separated by an insulator. As long as the conductors are not allowed to touch, any charge differential is retained across the conductors. When the gap between the conductors is bridged by a conductive substance (such as a hand), the charge differential balances across the conductive substance.

So the inner gold plates serve as one conductor while the outer gold plates serve as the second conductor. The wood in between serves to insulate the two conductors against discharge.

It is notable that the Ark was to be carried on two wooden poles. The poles were to be adorned with gold, but the area where they touched the Ark was to be left bare. The bare wood keeps the Ark from grounding and discharging. Assuring that the Ark not touch the ground also makes certain that the accumulated charge isn't lost.

After being carried through a dry windy desert for a number of days, a very significant static charge should build between the inside layer of gold which is insulated from the wind, and the outside layer with is in contact with the wind. The continual friction of the air against the exterior causes a transfer of electrons, changing the electrical charge of the outer gold plate. Since the inner plate's charge remains the same, a differential develops.

Were one to touch the Ark at any point which might bridge the two plates, the charge differential would balance via a flow of electrons through the subject. Static charges often contain very high voltages, but usually very low amperage.

This would explain the claim that when someone touched the Ark, they were instantly struck down.

And while the people of that time and location were not known to have any knowledge of static electricity, there is evidence that the Egyptians did have a rudimentary understanding of static electricity and Moses is said to have been raised as the son of an Egyptian Pharaoh, meaning also that he would likely have received a better education than the average Egyptian of the time.

Its is rather intereting Azuredark that these things mysteriously appear and disappear. The idea alone to me is strange.

Oceanne, The idea of the lines being where the churches and all the temple are built is another reason to suggest the water. What is the signifacance (sp) behind the water, where most things point to water or are around water. It has got me baffled.

Dabbler you bring an interesting point up in your last post.

It might be exactly that NightStalker.
And yes,I find it weird too that these kindof things always have a way of dissapearing.
The battery Beast,thats pretty interesting to say the least,and I thank you for that info because I am certainly going to be checking that out in depth.
But if it where some kind of battery,would it basically mean that whoever had the ark would possess technology that would take man out of the dark ages? Much like we are today?Cheetah,Im looking into the water thing at this point and have found some fairly interesting things that could now even tie into the manna aspect,because of what it does to soil and also the fact that water can be derived from Gypsum in desert climates etc...

Or,could this so called battery be a form of power after TSHTF Beast? When all else is knocked out?What are the thologists saying about it in the circles you were in?
And there are billions of cubic meters of gypsum, in other words, trillions of litres of clean drinking water from the arid desert.. It doesnt take much to get it either.. only moderate heating, to temperature around 100°C, to liberate this water and convert the gypsum into bassanite or anhydrite. These temps are easily obtainable by solar power too, or alternatively, the heat from flaring oil wells .
Isnt it amazing how one can implicate so many apocolyptic scenarios into this?

By struck down, do you mean killed? Or, a flash of light and a momentary loss of consciousness?

From a wizardry/alchemical pov in an unschooled time that trick would be quite impressive. Doubtful that it could release cataclysmic waves of destruction, otherwise it would have been done.

Who could resist opening the damn thing?

Reminds me of Twain's "A Connecticuit Yankee in King Arthur's Court." The hero ws a bicycle repair man/blacksmith, I think, back in a time when America was in transition. He gets shot back in time, and uses minor science tricks to wow the populace in Arthur's court.

Oceanne,

It's not really a battery. A battery uses a chemical reaction to generate electrical current. This would simply be a capacitor which stores an electrical charge. And theists have a fairly broad range of responses. Some readily accept the idea as being the most likely explanation and they fit it directly into their beliefs. Others insist that it would somehow contaminate their beliefs and they outright reject it. Given some of the other claims attributed to Moses, I suspect that such an act of deceit fits other examples of his behavior as attested in the Bible.

As for lifting people out of the Dark Ages, one first has to find practical uses for the stored current. It could have remained little more than a curiosity for a very long time before any use was found for the strange phenomena. History shows that Thales of Miletus (640-546 BC), was familiar with the phenomena of static electricity. He observed that if amber were rubbed, it could then attract and pick up light objects. This was later documented by Aristotle.

Bloodmother,

The term "struck down" could mean a great many things. While the common belief is that it meant the subject was killed, even being knocked mysteriously to the ground by a mere box would have completely awed people of Moses' time.

Beastt - Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I'm posing this option with Moses.

Is it possible that, if Moses had created the box as such intentionally, he did so because he felt that the electricity was a manifestation of "God"? What that would mean is that the intent was not deceit, but demonstration of his "God's" power.

Thank you for your posts and info guys..You will need to forgive me today as Im really kindof out of it,but Im watching and taking into account everything said,although I doubt I will be doing much research today other than sticking to asking questions here.
And I do find all of these points very interesting.
What is this manna supposed to be anyway?

Manna was the bread that the Hebrews survived on during their alleged 40 year wandering in the desert.

Jesuis,

Certainly it's possible that Moses may have concluded that the mysterious power of static electricity was some mystical power of God. But the presentation doesn't quite fit. The claim is that God commanded him to have the Ark built and to do so by God's standards. If Moses already knew how to build a rudimentary capacitor (and gold would be the preferred metal because it's a top-notch conductor), the story doesn't elude to that.

There is a difference between knowing how to build a device, and proclaiming that you have been commanded to have such a device built, by a divine entity, as though you were unaware of what might be expected. That seems to fit with other assertions such as having those who toil on the Sabbath killed by stoning and claiming it was by God's command or proclaiming that God has provided a cure for leprosy and then providing nothing more than a primitive religious ritual which might transmit bird flu, but would certainly not cure leprosy.

Looking too far into similar assertions attributed to Moses might quickly lead us off course and into an in-depth religious discussion which is probably not where we wish to go.

Oceanne,

There is a possibility that the "manna from Heaven" was actually an edible species of lichen known as "Lecanora esculenta", or a related species. When dried by the desert, it could be torn from the soil by the winds and blown some distance. As wind currents subside, it would be seen to fall from the sky.

Thanks Jesuis..and would it be safe to assume that this is the "stuff of which magic is formed"? As well as the "substance of which souls are made"?Even though it is spelled differently?

Taking man out of the dark ages.. considering it was a capacitator,. still though it was cloaked in holy status, such is the way with many early physics. So it bolstered the beliefs of people, in a god. I could just see all the other religions touting their gods power, and then the ark tours their town.. and people believers, and unconverted alike.. start asking"Why can't your gods artifacts, produce a glowing buzzer box?"

Of course any body that may have spoke up about the possible source of that Buzzer Glowing box being something mundane .. well they would likely be a wise to shut their mouth.. so if that speaks for the advancement at the time.. then I doubt the ark shot us into the renisance.. those that plugged away behind the scene, asking what are they passing off as holy, could be something with applications out side of sensationalism.

This is what Im talking about Dab,er,at least I think in part..something other than "holy ".or "paranormal". That to me is mundane.So nope,wont shut my mouth.;)Im curious as to what properties the ark and the stuff contained therein might have exibited that would have inspired all writings pretaining to it what they are.Besides those who wanted control or something else along that line of course.

It shares a field with the Animated Statues. The "Mystic Mazes". Mystifying followers, or just the low level priest. Entertain people with their beliefs, and their "faith" will grow. Or at least they will be silenced by those that have what appears to be proof.

I think to a certain degree yes,and even moreso as time goes on and the story gets more fantastic..but normally,there is always something that perpetuates these stories of grandure,and it would be kool to know what that is in this case.Ie: holy water..was/is it actually something divine? Or is it water that occurrs naturally like lithium rich waters that simply have properties that,back then ,were considered supernatural.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloidal_silver

I have seen some rather nice programs all with good merit.
I do believe they found something similar in Egypt, a sort of larg battery based on static charge .. only bigger .. so I guess once someone got fried to death it would be minus a charge and safe to touch .. unless you have rubber sandals on … good way of saying you have gods book in there I guess. “Don’t believe me, then make your servant touch it n death strikes him , then I go over n touch it coz I believe” and then all the stories I have are given truth I guess is a logical way of looking at it.
Or there was a ark n it did kill in battle n dry river beds n so forth and the Egyptians made a replica?

What I can safely say is they will never find it, for it never was in my view more than a good stories based on a cheep parlor trick.
The basics of man using gods power to kill n become leader, frightens me.

That Nat'l Geographic/History Channel documentary was fascinating. It would make sense that the Ark would appear Egyptian in design, since the Jews were in Egypt for hundreds of years and absorbed much of the culture.
There are rumors that the Ark is in the hands of the Christian heirarchy in Ethiopia - strange that if that's the case, why wouldn't it be in the hands of the smaller Jewish community there?

Yes it is weird isnt it? Not only that,and Im sorry to say this ut Ethiopia isnt exactly doing so well if you know what I mean.Kinda goes against all that has been said about the Ark's powers.

it does make me wonder when was the last time an eye was laid on the AOC though.

Its easy to see how everyone attributed effects such as these as either magic or religion behind the cause of their tribe.With territory being so important ect..

But thats a different discussion.

You have certainly posed and good point on the manna aspect Beast.

I also wanted to post this for those who do not know the Rods of RA..


Rods of Ra - History of the Egyptian Power Rods

The Rods of Ra are re-discovered technology of ancient Egypt. If you were to look through most any picture or photograph book about ancient Egyptian culture and closely look at the statues of the pharaohs and others, you will notice that many are holding or clasping rod-like objects in their hands. The statues are generally standing in what is believed to be the "Master Position" which is a strong stance of power with the left foot forward, looking straight ahead, and a cylindrical rod held in each hand, with the arms extended downward at their side.

This unique standing position, or pose, is found in many statues of the pharaohs throughout Egyptian history, from the Triad of Menkaure to the Colossus of Ramses II, Nefertari's Temple of Hathor and the Temple of Re-Harakhte (the Sun Temple of Ramses II). Hundreds of these figures are depicted in exactly the same position, holding cylinder-like objects. It is interesting to note that conventional Egyptologists and archeologists have never asked the question, what are they holding in their hands? The answer to this question indicates that the Ancient Egyptians possessed a technologically advanced method of bringing their human energy systems back into balance and restoring normal form and function to their bodies.


Research indicates that copper and zinc Rods filled with charcoal, magnetite, quartz crystals or other special materials seem to have certain energetic qualities that provided the ancient Egyptian ruling class a means of connecting directly with the energy systems of the human body and the universal energy of deliberate creation. This allowed a powerful point of focus for the work of balance and self-perfection.

How We Believe the Rods of Ra Work

The Rods of Ra are based on the powerful technology of a galvanic couple or voltaic couple. The galvanic or voltaic effect, as you may know, is based on the principal of producing an electrical effect or current using a chemical reaction. Two dissimilar conductors (copper and zinc) in contact with (the body) or in the same electrolytic solution, results in a difference of potential between them. Copper and zinc are a galvanic or voltaic couple. This action then creates a "Voltaic Battery" which consists of pieces of dissimilar metals, such as copper and zinc, arranged in pairs, and subjected to the action of a saline or acid solution (the body), by which a current of electricity is generated whenever the two poles, or ends of the series, are connected by a conductor (the body).

As soon as you grasp the Rods in your hands - COPPER in the RIGHT hand, ZINC in the LEFT hand, a catalytic reaction occurs which produces a potential difference of between ~0.8 volt to ~1 volt, or sometimes greater, depending on the conductivity/hydration state of the body. This galvanic couple reaction is a natural catalytic occurrence between the contact of COPPER on the RIGHT side of the body and the ZINC on the LEFT side of the body, which sets up a state of potential difference. The effect of the galvanic couple reaction may be controlled, altered, modified, or enhanced by changing the contents of the Rods.

The resulting electromagnetic reaction appears to act beneficially on the blood which is made up of electrically charged particles. The primary electro-chemical parameter of the blood (pH) is determined by the number of positively charged electrical particles carried by positive hydrogen ions in proportion to the number of negatively charged electrical particles carried by hydroxylions (OH-). When there occurs the same number of positive and negative charges present, then the blood is considered electrically neutral, since charges of opposite sign cancel each other out.



The theory and method by which the Rods of Ra appear to work is by initiating a galvanic or voltaic couple which produces a piezoelectric reaction which in turn energizes the fillings contained in the copper rod, thus stimulating the sixth and seventh energy or chakra centers. The Rods of Ra appear to act on the central nervous system which passes impulses to the hypothalamus, then from the hypothalamus to the endocrine system, then to the various body organs.

The converse reaction flows along two primary energy paths. Starting at the endocrine system, the energy seems to move to the central nervous system and then to the various organs and glands. Information regarding the state of the glands and organs are channeled from the endocrine system and the organs to the central nervous system which directs the communication impulses to the hypothalamus and hypophysis, or pituitary gland, which in turn activates the functions of self-healing and regeneration.

damn..http://www.rodsofra.com/what_are.htm

Claims of such miracles can often be explained through naturalistic means. I often wonder, when seeing illusionists like Chris Angel or David Baine, what beliefs might still persist today had they lived in a time of greater gullibility.

If we look to the claims of the Ark of the Covenant, claims of creation, claims of the commandments and claims about divine cures for leprosy and punishments for laboring, and note that all are said to have come from the same source, how the obvious can be less than obvious.

covenant is the treaty of divine aims and morals and disciplines in teh coven to come combinely.

Such characters did exist back then beast, the Fakirs. With the rope climb to heaven trick, to name one attraction. The "modern" medicine show was birthed by Fakirs. Jugs have been found, (and duplicated) that hold two bladders inside, when poured one way, they produce a certain beverage, when poured another, another beverage is poured.

Watching a special on the Animated statues, I was struck by how impressive witnessing such things ancient people (who could not even likely read) become. Any god that was attacted to that would be much revered.

It was just one big battery and capictor. Hence the reason it meant to able to kill people on contact with. This is something I read and also seen on the tv (on the history channel I think).

In keeping with the wishes not cause probs I will refain from religious comments here, though I do have some.

We know too little to say it had some electrical capacity, although the technology did exist at the time.

Personally I think it was indeed the "seat of God" (again not the "Christian" God but the highest power thing, source, the One whatever). I say that because there is nothing to suggest that God didn't help or work with others such as the Buddhists, Zoroastrians and so forth.

Anywho, from a physical point it was little more than a very ornate box. A few have suggested it was a simple wooden drum of sorts, I don't subscribe to that at all and actually find it offensive from an archaeological stand point due to a total lack of evidence.

Very true Zav..thus this thread.And I do agree with you that it could be the "seat of God" in a manner of speaking.

well I am not sure if I believe it exist or not I mean there are alot of historical stories out in the world and yet who really knows what is true and what is not unless or until they have unearth / found everything that is said as proof. I know it made for a good Indiana Jones Movie lOl sorry no disrespect to anyone just how I look at it.

None taken KL! And that is one way of looking at it of course.However,I do feel that when an account of something follows man through history,there is usually something to it..something that got it all started,that exibited some property that made it fantastic to people of the time.Even if it turns out to be something as small as a shock caused by chemical or anouther reaction.

well yeah that is what I mena there are alot of historical stories that have carried over the ages and I do mean ages, yet so many tell us we have to have proof that it exist and well sometimes I do not see how they can prove it if it has been hidden for centuries LOL yet, that does not mean it does not exist, jut the keepers of it were very good at what they did / do.

I am sure there are alot of secret societies out there that many do not even know exist that keep track of all this historical stuff.

We know that it did exist the question I personally have is does it still exist?

Well religious relics are about religion so you can't really get around that and if you speak of most things in the past they will be tied to a cultures beliefs...you cannot get around that either. The term God does not to me identify one entity...even the Jews which we are talking about do not say that and when they write it now it is G_d. So I don't think that is applicable in the discussion of what something might or might not have wanted or what someone thought about it. Back then it would have been something different anyway. They knew a lot of alchemical things and you name it back then. Moses knew about alchemy and magic.

There is a guy who has done a lot of research on this. They call him the English Indiana Jones and he is in his sixties now. Some things he says the archaeological world doesn't pay attention to but he has proved his theories to be correct on many occasions.

From this site: http://www.huliq.com/52149/tudor-parfitt-claims-he-found-lost-ark-covenant

Time Magazine writes that "Parfitt, 63, is a professor at the University of London's prestigious School of Oriental and African Studies. His new book, The Lost Ark of the Covenant: Solving the 2,500 Year Mystery of the Fabled Biblical Ark (HarperOne) along with a History Channel special scheduled for March 2 would appear to risk a fine academic reputation on what might be called a shaggy Ark story. But the professor has been right before, and his Ark fixation stems from his greatest coup. In the 1980s Parfitt lived with a Southern African clan called the Lemba, who claimed to be a lost tribe of Israel. Colleagues laughed at him for backing the claim; in 1999, a genetic marker specific to descendents of Judaism's Temple priests (cohens) was found to appear as frequently among the Lemba's priestly cast as in Jews named Cohen. The Lemba — and Parfitt — made global news."

In the synopsis of The Lost Ark of the Covenant: The Remarkable Quest for the Legendary Ark the book is described how professor Tudor Parfitt went through so many dangers in Africa to make his discovery and claims about the Ark Of The Covenant.

Professor Tudor Parfitt, a real-life British Indiana Jones, has made the biggest discovery of the last 3,000 years -- the secret location of the fabled Ark of the Covenant.

In 2006, he made an incredible journey to its final resting place and in February 2008 he will reveal this to the world. This is the amazing story of his quest. This is the real-life account of Professor Tudor Parfitt's remarkable discovery -- of the lost Ark of the Covenant that disappeared from the Temple of Jerusalem centuries ago. The holiest object in the world, the Ark of the Old Testament contains the tablets of law sacred to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Scholar, orientalist and adventurer, Parfitt embarked on an incredible journey to discover where the Ark is hidden, and when he reveals his discovery history books will be rewritten forever. Parfitt's quest took him on an incredible detective trail across the Middle East and Africa. His search led him to ancient documents and codes in Oxford and Jerusalem, and even to discoveries in modern genetic science, for clues to take him closer to the Ark. But some people didn't want the Ark to be found.In the wilder reaches of the Yemen he narrowly escaped being kidnapped by Islamist fugitives.

In Africa he was shot at, ambushed and arrested. Amongst crossing paths with a motley crowd of mystics, holy men, charlatans and politicians, he encountered a strange tribe in the mysterious lands of the Limpopo River who claimed that they knew the Ark's final resting place. When Parfitt finally set eyes on the Ark, it wasn't at all where he expected. His revelation of its whereabouts will cause an international story with an effect on Judaism, Islam and Christianity that may be the most controversial in history.

I don't know if they are meaning his book or if he made some sort of announcement. I haven't looked beyond that because the Ark isn't really of too much interest to me...some but not all consuming. So I will leave it to you to see if he got debunked or if something significant happened...if I run across it I will post it.

The Lemba, genetically, do come from Israel. The "Ark" that was found was little more than an oval wooden drum, without the skin. This is contrary to most accounts and historical records.

So true...the top families of the Lemba have the Cohen strain that goes back to the Jews of biblical times.

This is wonderful info thank you..a drum huh? Well,I find that rather interesting to be honest.

Zav,do you happen to know anything else about the drum?

No,and thats fairly evident due to the fact we dont know if its a drum or a box or a person....but lets go on the assumption that it does exsist k? For the sake of the conversation and everything.
And Beast,you know about this stuff...can you tell me more about the drum please?Any proposed dimensions,where it came from,the purpose of it? Anything along that line?

here in India no temple or panth coven moved from one place to another thus no ark required here...

So if it is a treaty Demon,what would the relics signify?

I do apologise Honorable Oceanne for irrelavant reply i posted of the meaning of the covenant. yes its meaning is true but it did not imply here in this topic...

it is the treaty among the divine worshippers to divineness and divine morale and disciplines to becoem union under the high priest or high priestess ( the given leadership ) to become one to pray or rituals to the supreme in the order of the coven.

Hey dont worry Demon,it isnt like any of us have never done that before.But thanks all the same.
I should say that my intrest isnt really in the religious side of this,as oppsed to the..technical side.Like what it might have contained and because of what those things repotedly are capable of doing.How they might work etc..
Which incidently,I must say to everyone how delighted I am with everyones contribution and by everyone refraining from going off onto the religious side of it all.I know it isnt easy because of the very nature of the topic and it must certainly be addressed to a small degree..but all in all,very well done.

covenant means unite as making promises under oath

oath means :

An oath (from Anglo-Saxon āð, also called plight) is either a promise or a statement of fact calling upon something or someone that the oath maker considers sacred, usually a god, as a witness to the binding nature of the promise or the truth of the statement of fact. To swear is to take an oath.

A person taking an oath indicates this in a number of ways. The most usual is the explicit "I swear," but any statement or promise that includes "with * as my witness" or "so help me *," with '*' being something or someone the oath-taker holds sacred, is an oath. Many people take an oath by holding in their hand or placing over their head a book of scripture or a sacred object, thus indicating the sacred witness through their action: such an oath is called corporal. However, the chief purpose of such an act is for ceremony or solemnity, and the act does not of itself make an oath

well if a coven truely is made, its most psychic and spiritual things... coz covenant do apply their belief combinely one and give up other believes and teh ritual tehy perform is truely of high most caliber so why the ancient saints were so highly appreciated teh coven even dark side do stress on the coven...

Yes,that is true,and I thank you for that information.
In light of that,any ides as to why they chose what relics they did other than to simply symbolize the covenant or the oath itself? On the other hand,do you know anything about this drum that has been mentioned?

Like you Oceanne, I am interested in hearing more about this drum.

Demon, thanks for the reminder about the covenant and its meaning. I would think that it being set forth this way would make for an interesting idea as to why the ark was made and the items that was put within it.

Zav, I would have to agree with your question of whether or not it still exists.

The other thing that I wonder is what else is in the ark that we are missing. So far we know that Arrons Rod and the ten commandments are within it. I am just curious of what else is there and what it would mean to find out.

Here is a story about the drum..

Venda/South Africa, Zimbabwe
The Drum of the Dead was brought to its present location by the Senzi people, who are today called the Venda.

The sacred drum of the Senzi belonged to their departed ancestors at the time when they were living in the north. Among all their musical instruments, the greatest, and that which was feared and revered most by all the people, was this instrument of the royal ancestor spirits, the Drum of Mwali, the ancestor god of the Senzi and the Kalanga. This drum was called the Voice of the great God, Mambo wa Denga (King of Heaven), the lord of all the ancestor spirits. The king was feared because he could work miracles with this drum of the gods. His enormous city was built on a mountain. The drum was seen and beaten by no one except the high priest, Dzomo la Dzimu, the mouthpiece of God, and the king, Mwali. No one could look upon the king: he spoke through the high priest, whose voice reverberated in a terrifying way. The palace was guarded by lions, the dogs of the king, and by snakes who had heads on either end. When rain was needed, the king was petitioned, and when the drumming of Ngoma-lungundu was heard, they knew that the king had heard them. The drum could not be looked at. Once, when the people quarreled among themselves, Mwali, angry, spoke through the drum and many died. But the people continued to fight among themselves, and in the end Mwali left them, to go under the earth, to become the ancestor-god of the people. When they hear the earth shake, they know that he walks on the clouds or under the earth. When the king vanished, many people fled or died with him. Mwali bequeathed his powers to Tshilume, his eldest son, to whom he gave a small drum of the spirits, also called Ngoma-lungundu. This drum helped the prince when he was troubled by his enemies. It brought rain when it was needed. Some years later, Mwali's voice told the son to move his people to the land beyond the Limpopo. And so the people moved. The drum, enclosed, was carried by six men, with the injunction by Mwali that it must never touch the ground. During the migration, the people were protected by Mwali and the drum. They came to the Kalanga people, who were overwhelmed by their numbers and acquiesced to their presence. They continued to move south. They went to the country of the Nyai, and Mwali told them to move on. Then the drum of the spirits fell to the ground one day because it had not been placed carefully in a tree. A storm resulted, lions sent by Mwali ravaged the people, many died. The king went up a hill and did not return. Then all abated, and they continued under a new king to the valley of the Limpopo. When the king died, Hwami took over the leadership. Few people remained, but the drum made their enemies fear them. But the Pedi did not fear the drum, so Hwami and his people moved to another place. They migrated to the country of Tshivhula and settled. Dyambeu, Hwami's great-grandson, succeeded him, and they traveled to the east, using Ngoma-lungundu to subdue any who stood in their path. On the Plain of Tshisonga, they built a camp and prepared a shelter for Ngoma-lungundu. But at one point the drum, blown by the wind, fell to the ground, and the people were massacred and the drum taken by the enemy, the Tavhatsindi. With the help of Mwali, they recovered the drum and overcame the Tavhatsindi. The eldest son of Dyambeu, Bele, was selected king.

http://www.answers.com/topic/ngoma-lungundu-a-drum-that-is-the-voice-of-god

And a couple more stories describing some of the powers it is claimed to have..

Further Stories of the Ark

The Ark was powerful. In the book of Joshua, it was used to cross the River Jordan and to enter into the Promised Land. The priests carrying the Ark stepped into the river and the water ran dry - all the water upstream piled up, leaving a dry crossing point. The priests stood there while the people crossed. Then when everyone was across, the priests stepped out of the river and the river went back to the way it had been. A neat trick!

The Walls of Jericho were destroyed by a ritual which showed the Hebrews' faith in their god: each day, the priests carried the Ark around the walls of the city, and they blew trumpets. On the seventh day of this, the walls suddenly collapsed. While this story is generally told as the trumpets causing the walls to fall, it was the power of God as represented in the Ark that did it.

Later, in a battle against the Philistines, the Hebrews were routed and the Ark was captured. When news of this reached the Hebrew leader Eli, the shock was so great that he fell backwards off his chair, broke his neck and died. But the Ark itself was not happy in the possession of the Philistines. First, it knocked over the statue of their god, Dagon. Then they were afflicted with a plague of tumours. Eventually after seven months of affliction, they returned the Ark to the Hebrews, after placing in it a guilt offering of five golden models of tumours and five golden rats.

The Ark was dangerous. Not only were the normal people not allowed to look at it, but they couldn't touch it either. Even the priests who carried it could only do so by holding the poles. In one story, while the Ark was being transported on a cart, one of the oxen pulling the cart stumbled and a man by the name of Uzzah took hold of the Ark to steady it. He was struck down by God for his insolence. The God of the Hebrews was not a tolerant god.

Eventually the Ark reached Jerusalem. King Solomon built a glorious temple and the Ark was placed inside it.
Information obtained from
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/filmnetwork/A30081737

There are also claims that Templars found the Ark and brought it back to England,where it is in the Temple Herdewyke, Warwickshire. Historian Graham Philips said he found secret signs in a nearby church. These secret signs led him to a well where he found a mysterious stone tablet with inscriptions in an unknown script.But no evidence of a golden box.

My assertion that the Ark did exist is based on the fact that there are many official accounts from various empires claiming that it was real. Most people believe that Jesus existed, at least as a man if not anything more. The bulk of our "proof" that Jesus was at least a person comes from historical text written years after his death and records from the Roman Empire.

Supernatural occurrences may or may not have proof from official records but the construct of the item itself (Ark or otherwise) I tend to think to are rather reliable, especially when you have multiple accounts of the same thing across cultures.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.

As you see the thread closed due to length.But I think because of the responses I will keep it going for a bit longer if an admin doesnt shut it down.:)

Im with you on that assumption Zav.And while it might not be all that is claimed,I do feel that it did exsist.

That is the point Oceanne it had to exist at one point or time. The biblical referencing to the ark shows that. Personally I would love to just be able to see it one time. As Blood mother said before who wouldn't open the thing.

With your post on the drums, I have to wonder now how close one would come to being able to signify if these drums could be the same ones that have been used for ages by the Native's of many lands.

Ive been gathering a bit of info on that Cheetah.Im thinking a couple of things at this point pretaining to the drum,and will be posting about it pretty soon.I would love to be able to hear it once tho.That in itself would tell me a great deal.

The drum its self would depend greatly on the size according to the traditions. Each different size give a different sound. Just some food for thought on your search.

What motive is served by alluding to the Ark existing in modern times?

That was my main motivation Cheetah when I saw the word "Drum" enter the picture... .;) What Id really like to know are the original dimensions and stuff,that would help me pin down the very thing Im looking for.

The drum was solid wood, hollowed out (a tree stump probably). About 3' long by 2.5' wide by 2' deep with at least an inch wall. If my memory serves me right :)

It had 2 handles carved out of the drum which could have served to place carrying poles through. Along the rim it had a 3-4 inch wide carving of what looks to be simple waves.

I don't remember what kind of wood was used.

Here we go the "ngoma lungundu", Lemba drum.

I'm not sure we can assume that the Ark actually existed based only on the claims in the Bible, or for that matter, that Jesus existed.

When we look for extra-biblical support for the biblical Jesus, we find very close to nothing, despite having knowledge of a number of historians of that time and location; who, one might think would have written extensively of him. Instead we find loose references in the writings of Suetonius, Tacitus and Pliny the Younger which refer only to a title.

The strongest references come from the writings of Flavius Josephus and those are considered by many scholars to be blatant forgeries, likely perpetrated by Bishop Eusebius during the translation of the writings under the direction of Emperor Constantine. Meanwhile, when looking through the writings of many other historians such as; Aulus Perseus, Coumella, Dio Chrysostom, Justus of Tiberius, Livy, Lucanus, Lucius Florus, Petronius, Phaedeus, Philo Judaeus, Phlegon, Pliny the Elder, Plutarch, Pomponius Meta, Rufus Curtius, Quintillan, Quintus Curtlus, Seneca, Silius Italicus, Statius Caelicius, Theon of Smyrna, Valerius Fiaccus and Valerius Maximus, we find nothing.

My point simply being, that unless the Ark has a better extra-biblical foundation than Jesus, I think there is more than sufficient room to doubt that it actually existed.

If we analyze the assertion as is; it seems to be that the Bible's claims alone are sufficient, and yet people are looking to a wooden drum and completely ignoring the fact that it doesn't even come close to the description in the Bible. So what other evidence is there that the Ark actually existed?

If a thread auto-closes for length, it stays closed. Cancer didn't build auto-closes into the system because he had nothing better to do with his time. It's better anyway as the thread is becoming historically and factually confused.