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Being in war and having your dark side life
How does it reflect on you while you're miles away and in war fighting if you're in the army, navy, any branch of service?
Do you put your beliefs on hold or have time to take advantage of them ?
I would like some input on this ?

It's not just in military life that you would have to do this. Someone somewhere right now in the states is having to shove his or her beliefs aside so that someone else can live a happier life. Those of us that are in Iraq just do so on a larger scale. None of us believe in this war but we do believe in fighting for our country and protecting everyone else so that don't have to deal with the crap. And if we have to put aside all of our moral, ethical, or religious beliefs to do it then we will and gladly too. Why? Because not only is it our job but because you all are our brothers and sisters, we do it because we love you. Plain and simple.

i'm not religious,but i am devoted to evil i absolutly believe in it,i will be going in the army and i would use my belief in violence and brutality to fuel my fighting spirit in war,so to answer that question...
i think a persons belief or will power can greatly help them in war because it motivates them

Exactly... not only that, everyone's beliefs are so different, it's kind of hard not to have to put yours aside if it's the only way to make a compromise. Right now, do you know how many muslim soldiers we have fighting this war and how hard it must be on them? I don't think it's fair at all but they do it and don't complain. I haven't heard a single word from them on the subject because they think that doing their job is more important in order to reach some sort of compromise/absolute.

your not having to put your beliefs aside, I mean if you believe in God then you simply believe if you believe in Wicca then you simply believe your not really moving your beliefs aside so you can get along with someone or so you can do your Job being in the millitary I prayed every night, morning, day, afternoon, when I am shooting my weapon I ask that it might hit someone who has no children cause I didn't want to make any orphans and then you just have to simply ask for forgiveness no matter what religion you are. I have a muslim friend and I talk about my religion just as much as he talks about his I don't agree with alot that he says hardly anything at all but then he don't agree with ours either so it's not putting them aside really it's just trying to deal with remorse and regret. yeah I have been shunned by a couple people and friends just because I am a gothic christian do I believe there is a God ? yes, do I believe he's the only one trying to guide my life ? no, so in order to get the full picture I look at everything. I have atheist friends as well. and you know some of them are the nicest people you'll meet they talk about the proof they have that there is nothing there and then they let me talk it's actually kinda fun, so I never put my beliefs aside, in doing so it's like saying I don't believe anymore, do I shut up and not talk about with someone if they ask me too yeah I do but again it's not moving it aside it's just keeping it in my heart where it will always be

You sometimes must compartmentalize your beliefs from your mission. You have committed to both, the military by contract and your beliefs through your makeup. There will be times when there are conflicts and you will have to sort them out. It is never easy. The biggest one for me was "Harm none". Hard to do in war when bullets are flying. In that case I did what I could to protect myself and other unit members. I still pray for the war to go away as it is breaking many of our military personnel psychologically through the stress of war and the stress of moral conflicts.

Michael
LTC, USA, Ret

I agree with MyArmy and Temporary2.

The military is a job and it the same with any other workplace, school or whatever you go into. Sometimes your beliefs have to take a side step.

This doesn't mean your are forgetting about them, but you are doing what needs to be done to get the job done.

I mean how times have you taken problems from home into work/school or visa versa? It is the same thing, you need to seperate them.

Thank you.

The thing is it will affect your mood, but it should have no impact on your job.

I work in the service industry, and I am in and out of customers all day. And I have to interact with that person. I have lost count of how times I have seen religious picture and symbols in houses, I just don't comment on them.

I have had problems at home, but they stay at home. Work is a bit harder, because some of my work is done from home. But once the work is done that is it, the phone gets switched off and I am off the clock.

That makes you guys really lucky and me extremely jealous. lol. The fact that you get to just turn your phone off at the end of the day is a luxury that most soldiers would kill for. We're on the clock 24/7. For most MOS's, it's not a problem because they're not really needed 24/7. But the Medics, MP's, etc..... They have to be able to jump into their uniforms and run out to help at the drop of a hat. A lot of times, we have to pretend things to make someone feel better. I'm a Christian yet there have been a couple of times where I've had to pray with someone to their god in order to keep them relaxed and cooperative.

It's kind of what our Chaplains do here. They know quite a few religions and preach them all to help out our soldiers spiritually. That doesn't mean they putting their own beliefs on hold, just putting them aside for the moment for the greater good.

I used to be an Army wife. And my ex husnabd didn't like having to kill people, but he once told me that he would always protect his own, meaning his family which included his immediate family as well as though of the US and the fellow military. He once said, if I have to choose between them and us it will always be us.

Being in the military myself. The Marines, having a dark side and toting a loads of amunition around in the war, really just wieghed heavily on myself. But it was never about me. It was about the american's back home. When you start to feel small out there, you suddenly remember a greater a cause.

If you ask any member of the armed forces do want to kill someone or do they enjoy it, the answer to both will be no everytime.

But when it is a choice between life and death they will choice life everytime.

At the end of the day it is nothing personal, they are just doing a job.

I know what MyArmy, in my job I have to manage a special phone which is like a customer helpline and you always get somebody that things that 2am is a good to ring the number to tell that their tv isn't working properly.

I do not think being a member of the Armed Forces means that you have to set aside your beliefs.

Reference*1: Religious belief refers to a mental state in which faith is placed in a creed related to the supernatural, sacred, or divine; moral codes, practices, values, institutions, tradition, rituals, and scriptures are often traditionally associated with the core belief.

All Members of the Armed Forces and their Families sacrifice something during times of war, but if anything, I think that beliefs grow stronger and help many of our soldiers (and others) while they are serving , in any capacity.

Most religious practices are acceptable in the Military, and now they even recognize Wicca. That's a big step forward for everyone since the time when I served from 1974 - 1994.

Reference*2: Government entities also recognize Wicca as a religion. In 2001, the revised edition of the U.S. Air Force Personnel Data System (MilMod) included Dianic Wicca, Druidism, Gardnerian Wicca, Pagan, Seax Wicca, Shamanism, and Wicca. Not only that, the Military Chaplain's Handbook acknowledges Wicca within its pages and outlines procedures for interacting with Wiccan and Pagan soldiers. In May, 2007, after nearly a decade of delay, the Veteran's Association decided that they would allow the pentacle to be placed on the headstones of fallen Pagan and Wiccan soldiers.

The Military is voluntary--and should you belong to any lifestyle, path or religion that you think would be in conflict with anything the Military stands for or represents, then you shouldn't be a part of it. If you do want to help out, there are other ways, other than becoming a member of the Armed Forces, to help our Soldiers and serve our Country, in a Civilian Status.

References for previous post:

Reference *1: Religion

Reference *2: Pagans in the Military

Other: Military Pagan Covens, Groups & Orgs

Again, when we say "set aside our beliefs", there are apparently two separate meanings. lol. You need to read it to understand it. We're not setting them aside and forgetting them, hell no! lol. We're merely putting them off in order to do what needs to get done. I believe that you should never kill another human being however, in order to do my job and protect my people, I'm going to have to put that one on hold. I'm not forgetting it, I'm just putting it to the back of my mind to help others. I don't know if that helps to explain it at all.....

It sure does MyArmy. I think I have been saying this along. Haven grown up as an army kid, I know the inner struggles you have at times. I saw my dad go throught so many times.

MyArmyMyMilitaryMyLife:

I understood and responded to the question as clearly as it was stated. It was a general question--without specifics. As I see it, beliefs are not cast aside no matter what. Most people do not believe in killing, as a whole; however, under certain circumstances and conditions, killing may be justified (such as during wartime and/or for reasons of self-defense). Your belief in killing is not put aside temporatily--it is only adapted for the situation you are in.

Adapted! That's the word I was looking for! Thank you! lol.. So you do understand. okay.. lol. I'm so sorry. There was a bit of a mixup and misunderstanding on my part. Forgive me, I'm a bit tired. lol

I am in Afghanistan, business as usual. Beliefs are intact.

Mortalitas - Go Infantry with the Airborne Ranger option! You get a big bonus for that, and maximum opportunity to kill using the most advance firepower on earth.

I would agree it is not just military that must put their beliefs aside. Doesn't matter what the emplyment is somethings in society still are unaccepted nbecause its different and not understood. I am huge believer in freedom of all religions and have have my own tested several times in a custody battle.

My belief is that the military establishment is there to serve vested interests. How is being in Iraq & Afghanistan defending their country?

vamfan36:

Although a good one, your question (argument) might be better off posted under another thread or section. I think, it is having having more to do with international politics/govenment/military issues and is straying from the original subject matter of this particular thread.

Forgive me if I have over-stepped my bounds.

Not at all, you make a fair statement.
I just feel people don't look at the bigger picture and are being led by the nose.

On the influence on those in the states, I am a prior Correctional Officer, injured on duty, and due to the entities I was working around I had to ignore the need to remove the scumbags that were imprisoned there, and attempt to put them back out into civilization or let their time be finished, the psychological toll alone of being around these people was enough to give me possible psychological complications, in the end they will end up where they end up, and that is what I had to tell myself so that I could continue to do my duties.

-Louis

To those who say they are fighting in Iraq, and putting aside thier value systems to do so, so that those in the states can live thier lives and be free and such...I call B.S. You presume much in that statement that is simply a lie. Iraq was not a threat, had no ties with Al Qaeda, had no weapons of mass destruction...etc. etc. Now, If you want to say something along the lines of "I set aside my normal social mores in this warzone because, in doing so, I stand a much better chance of getting my ass out alive and back to the states" I buy that. Dont put your actions on keeping me safe, though...you arent. You are in a messed up situation that you shouldnt be in, and our being in it simply makes it worse. I wish you luck. I think we, back in the states, have a moral duty to our troops to get them back before more of them die for nothing. Its our duty to save you this time, not the other way around.

I'm sorry, but I'm fixing to get really pissed off here. I know we shouldn't be in this war. I oppose it with every fiber of my being. We started it though and someone has got to finish it so it might as well be us. We didn't go in protecting you but we are now. The fact of the matter is, our president has made so many damn enemies that if we pull out, we bring the war straight into the states. So yes, in a sense, we are protecting you now. It's the people that control the war anyway. The people wanted it so it was given to them at the expense of our soldiers lives, Thank you. We're doing as we're told. We're doing what the majority of our people want us to because as you all very well know, here, majority rules. I know you probably weren't one of the ones that wanted this and that's fine. But do not make the mistake of calling what a soldier says from the heart B.S. We're doing our duty. If you're going to say anything against, go bitch at your neighbor. They were probably one of the ones all for it. No soldier wants to be over there but we make the best of the situation because we believe we're doing something good for our country. I'd think that you'd show a little gratitude. Until you've been through the same, you can say nothing about it.

Well said MyArmy. it is not the soilders fault but that of the goverments and the people who put them in power in the first. The soliders are just doing a job like the police forces, customs officers, bus drivers and every other working person in this world so don't blame them for some elses screw ups.


As I see it Bush jnr just wanted to finish what is dad started (you the old saying monkey see, monkey do).

Thank you. What people don't realize is that they do control this country. Soldiers are second class. Civilians are considered higher ranking than we are. If a civilian doesn't like the way I breathe in his direction, something can and will be done about it. If you don't want this war, do something about it. The people CAN overthrow our government if they see that it is not fit or just. But no one knows that because they don't teach most of the constitution anymore. People are brainwashed. I can't say anything about our president right now because it'd be considered treason but rest assured that once he's out of office, I will have PLENTY to say about our Oh so loveable leader.

I think when risking life, as in battle, and being able to obtain last rites is a concern of the military, the steps are small to be sure, but A military Chaplin is versed in many last rites, the whole purpose for ones religion (as I relate it) is in their last moments passing, for a friend or loved one it is the knowledge that the friend had an assurance while dying.

I am so looking forward to it MyArmy.

The trouble is it all to easy to sit it an office and someone else to your dirty work for you and then take the credit for it, or pass the buck onto if it goes tits ups.

Well said MyArmy. I am actually ashamed of myself because I did want this war at first I felt they had attacked us we needed to go in and beat their asses. but after seeing documentary after documentary and seeing all kinds of proof to show that it was a self inflicted "wound" I would rather have my friends and family here at home. but on the other hand I have believed that if we ain't fighting over there then the war would come here and being ex Military I wouldn't want that around my children so I know and understand that a full fledge retreat or "pull" would be worse for our Nation than what we are doing now. as I said before in about six years when I have my masters or my doctorate in Theology and Pastoral services I am going in as a chaplain and I'll be right there with my friends and that's important for me too

I don't completely blame those who wanted the war. I was just as angry at first. What pisses me off now is that after all that fuss, no one wants to take the blame for their boys dieing in the war they all cried out for. Now, they all want to blame it on the soldiers and say that it's our fault that we're out there. It's our fault that the US is so far in debt.... yea, okay, sure. Whatever helps you sleep better at night. We're not allowed to travel in uniform anywhere anymore because of our own people targeting us and killing us. True story, I was shot at coming home on leave. I recounted the event in my journal.

Girl, you call it as it is and I so look forward to seeing your postings after hes out of office. Have lost far to many good men and women, I have lost my own amount of ammily over there and my opinion is still strong we sholdnt be there ! but yes like you said monjey see monkey do left a nice comment on this subject on my journal hahahha

MyArmy, you forgot to mention that also chefs are high proirity target also. No chefs, no proper food and down goes morale.

I would much love to see some these people in charge of the forces (from any country) go out to a warzone and see what is really happening on the frontline for real, and getting editted highligths and news reports.

I know some of these people do go out there, but they always visit 'a safe area'.

At least Prince Harry when out there and fought on the front lines, putting life in danger and he was a major target for the enemy.

Okay, while my Army counterpart is arguing the military side of things, I'll use my Civilian side to argue the civilian side. lol

Honestly, without any one MOS in the military, the whole thing would crash. They're too dependant on each other. And to tell the truth, the military actually has to depend on civilians for a lot of things too. Without people to join up, there's no one to replace the soldiers when some get killed or injured. Without civilians transporting goods and doing their everyday jobs, the cooks don't get what they need to make the food for the soldiers and like nighwish said, soldiers get malnurished and morale goes way down.

It's not just the military that the government screws over though. They spend so much money on useless crap that should be going to our schools, to helping the homeless, to researches done in the hospitals... It makes you wonder what beliefs our own government has and how they even sleep at night with what's going on in our own country. They say we're a Christian nation... I don't believe it. You tell me, what good honest Christian would steal the money from his own people and let them starve just to see some silly war get dragged out for as long as he can make it? He didn't just set his beliefs aside... He straight up threw them out the window...

From MyArmyLife:
"I'm sorry, but I'm fixing to get really pissed off here. I know we shouldn't be in this war. I oppose it with every fiber of my being. We started it though and someone has got to finish it so it might as well be us. We didn't go in protecting you but we are now. The fact of the matter is, our president has made so many damn enemies that if we pull out, we bring the war straight into the states. So yes, in a sense, we are protecting you now. It's the people that control the war anyway. The people wanted it so it was given to them at the expense of our soldiers lives, Thank you. We're doing as we're told. We're doing what the majority of our people want us to because as you all very well know, here, majority rules. I know you probably weren't one of the ones that wanted this and that's fine. But do not make the mistake of calling what a soldier says from the heart B.S. We're doing our duty. If you're going to say anything against, go bitch at your neighbor. They were probably one of the ones all for it. No soldier wants to be over there but we make the best of the situation because we believe we're doing something good for our country. I'd think that you'd show a little gratitude. Until you've been through the same, you can say nothing about it."


Sorry for taking so long to respond My Army...I got busy.
A few things:
Re. "someone has got to finish it so it might as well be us." What does that mean??? finish it??? Thats amazingly naive rhetoric. Are you serious?!?! There is no finish. The only finish available to us is what we arbitrarily declare finished. So why not do so? Why not declare it finished and pack up and go home? Mission Accomplished v.2.0. Why should we continue to pay a price in dollars and wounded or dead soldiers for a population that does not want us there? The politicians may want us to stay (for at least a little longer) but the man on the street wants us gone...lets go. When we leave they are going to likely dissolve into a civil war no matter what we do. We even have a new policy of non-interference now in place from recently rising tensions between Bahgdad and the Kurdish Regions for when it does break out. Here's a nice link for ya on that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/28/world/middleeast/28mosul.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=mosul%20kurds%20brig.%20gen&st=cse&oref=slogin

Re. "We didn't go in protecting you but we are now."
No, you aren't. Not your fault, but you are actually making me less safe. Every terrorist you kill creates at least 5 more from his pissed off family, friends, neighbors etc. The longer we are there, an eyesore on our global reputation, the more hostile even average people in other nations become to American travelers. This is not your fault. It is no soldiers fault, but dont delude yourself into thinking you are making me safer.

As to the majority of the people wanting this war...they were lied to. They got hoodwinked into thinking it was a good idea and soldiers died as a result...and lets NOT forget the 150,000 or so dead Iraqis. The majority of Americans do NOT want this war now, but the damn politicians wont get yall out of there. I admit to being one who got hoodwinked and I'm pissed as hell about it. GWB and DC should be taken out back and shot for treason. I bitch to my neighbors...to my army girlfriend who I pray doesnt get sent to Iraq or Afghanistan...to my army ranger friend in Iraq now (may he stay safe), to my best friend who is in the Air Force, to my now disabled friend who recently returned from Iraq full of shrapnel and to virtually anyone else who will stand still long enough for me to bitch about it. You think I owe you gratitude because you think you are doing something good for our country. I disagree that you are doing something good. I believe what I owe you is not gratitude but to get your butt out of there before you, too, become another statistic for a meaningless and counterproductive war.

And finally, the false assertion that "until I have been through the same I [cant say anything] about it." I call BS. First, what makes you think I haven't? Second, a person doesnt need to get shot to know it hurts and be able to opine that getting shot is not a good thing. Third, I AM an American and we DO have this little thing called free speech...who do you think you are to tell me what I do and do not have the right to talk about?

how did this thread go from wether or not we puit our belifs aside when we go to war, to who opposes bush. I would like to get back to the topic at hand.

I don't think that anyone puts their belisefs aside during war, much less those fighting it, especially since the beliefs that we have about what happens to us after death, give us a reason to keep doing what we have to do to survive.

I am in the military and have been for over 20 yrs. During that time the military or myself for that matter have never made me put my beliefs aside. I might be in the military but I am still an individual and what I believe in is my business and no one can force me to stop my beliefs or feelings.

i tried joing the TA and came to the conclusion they are a slave army.they dont own their weapons or their uniforms or any of their kit.they are hostile to any individuality and hate the idea of anybody who own their own arms.they hate somebody who has an ideall.what do they fight FOR?????they fight so bankers get richer at the end of the day and,though they may not know it,they are slaves.people are getting killed in afghanistan for the CIAs heroin and in iraque so that america controlls its oil.i dont myself believe in democracy but both countrys had perfectly good systems of democracy of their own which worked for them.

Good point catseye, I couldn't have said it better myself. As for British troops being out there, why are they?

Because (and I mean no offense to anyone) America said we had to go and fight with them, as 'we' are unoffically the 51th state, we do want they tell us. I am from Britian and I think our goverment are weak, easily manipulated and swayed, power hungry and too far up the Americian Goverment's backside to be able to smell the crap we are dealt.

So thanks to the'war on terror' we are now at the start of yet another worldwide recession, with fuel prices climbing higher and higher, the poor getting poorer, and the muppets in charge getting fat and full wallets.

Does anyone remember what happened after the last big global recession - yep the second world war, time for me to go and get a crippling injury soon I think.

To be honest I'm not religious at all, but I know many of my fellow soldiers are, I respect that to the fullest extent
but when it comes to folling orders you have to do it weither it goes against your beliefs or not

I've seen many people get hurt due to hezitation
and when I asked them what the hell they were waiting for and there anwser was, I don't think any man has the right to kill another, my only response was well your in the wrong place

I'm sorry if you don't see things as I do. I feel that if it comes down to myself killing a man to save myself or the life of a fellow soldier I never have and never will
hezitate to do all that is nessecary to make sure we make it home

im a navy brat .... my dad retired after 36 years as chief pety officer, retired in gold stripes. fought 4 tours of vietnam MY DAD is THE MAN !!! im strong and stubburn bullheaded bitch that takes nooo shit no more

I get married in july to my love who is in the Army. About a month after we get married he will be going to Iraq. It will hurt to be apart but we have to be strong. I think it well change his veiws on a lot of things but what it mainly boils down to is his life or theirs. I want my baby to come home to me so he'll do whatever it takes. I believe in him and his men to be safe.

Being in war and having your dark side life?

Well certainly a couple of supernatural abilities that come together in the same pack with the dark side would really be of use on the field.

My beliefs and my military service dont conflict each other at all. Doesnt matter what you do as a job your beliefs shouldnt effect it.

I believe niether should interfer with the other

I asked my friend a Wiccian, he actually went to his Chaplin and mentioned his faith, in the field a Chaplins duty is last rites, by going to his Chaplin he
inspired the Chaplin to study Wiccian rites of passage.

Moral is built when people who face uncertainty of living. People tend to be more connected to their religion. To me religion, of spirituality is in that moment, and having the assurance that someone knows someone projected
Departure plan.. Is settling.. But religious grand standing.. Is very unappealing, in military or civilian life.

that is a good question, but specificaly what do you mean- even deployed soldiers have free time to do whatever they want with, even infantry. and while some M.O.S. have more free time than others your free to excersize your beliefs on your time

i always put my squad first. during my last tour i lead a team and didnt lose a man. im atheist but i still saiid the lords prayer with my men. it isnt about the soldier its about the civillians at home

Most of the Normal Humans never have the opportunity to pull the trigger and blow another human head off. What ever your believe, in those 10 second, before the hammer hit the bullet, there many though that go to the mind, including religious believe. Yes, we are at war, and we must kill before the enemy kill us. So, for all the readers, you must be in that situation, to imagine what is about.

Well While I am not in any branch of the army navy or marine corp, My aunt was in Iran for well over 4 years. She was sent orders to go 2 days after the adoption for my cousin went through. So she only got to meet her newly adopted baby 1 day before she left out and did not see her again till she was almost 5. It was heart wrenching for her and She never put any of her beliefs on hold to serve for our country.

My Brother left for Iraq 3 years ago and was over there for 2 years. He is the type to get the job done first and worry your sins later.

I do not condone war but I support the men and women who are sent orders to go to war. I have seen first hand how it can affect a persons beliefs and way of thinking. And I do not think that war has done anyone any good.

the modern western amies are slave armies modelled on the janisseries.they dont own their own arms and dont fight for a cause.when i was in the Ta they so discouraged us for having any ideology or cause.political armies who fight for a cause are labelled terrorists.unless they are temporally usefull and then thay are freedom fighters.when menechem begin was invited to tea by the queen somebody described it as the mark of a successfull carrear in terrorism as he was the former head of irgun.

The blood that stains my hands, try as I might; will never wash off
It is a source of horror, of pride, and relief, all at the same time

What I have done haunts my dreams,
The horror is the weight of the thousands I have killed,
The pride is the safety of my loved ones and my beloved home, and the relief and succor that I brought to so many.
The relief, of having not had to bring forth the full power, of the destruction I was prepared to unleash.
A Destroyer of worlds I was perpared to be.

I had once laid down my sword, and shortly thereafter they came,
barbarians inside the wall, a gaping hole marking the end of the peace that was an illusion.

Things are worse now; these animals have fewer honors in them than any enemy we have faced before, no time to rest now and not an ounce of mercy in my heart.

Now it is anguish as I train those who replace me on the wall.
Teaching them to manipulate the lightning, and contain the fire,

Trying desperately to impress upon them the weight of it, what will happen if we ever release the demons or if our enemy finds some of his own and turns them on us.
Those young hearts, not capable yet of understanding what they do,

What they may be called upon to do.

I stand and wait as they go off, wondering if I have done enough, said enough, have they listened?

Wondering how many of them will return

When they do, I can see in their eyes that still they do not comprehend the depth of the emotion as I grasp their hand or embrace them thumping their backs in welcome.

Well met, my Children…… and Thank you.

I'm probably one of the oldest Veterans of War here... My qualifications: Two tours of VietNam as a Airmobile combat Medic.... in '69-72.
We didn't believe in the Politicians' War, back then, either...
As most of us were drafted.... some paid the ultimate prize for people then (just like now) who didn't appreciate why we were there and what we
were doing for them..... but, we didn't do much more... besides drop bombs and Napalm.... than the French did during their time..... but, the French only tried to turn them into religious converts... we tried to get them to "sellout" their country to US in the name of becoming a "democratic" country when most didn't know any form of government besides "today"! (stepping off my soapbox......)

leoderloewe

Being in the military doesnt mean we have to put aside our beliefs. It is the same in any other job. We have a job to do and we do it to the best of our ability. Sometimes this conflicts with our beliefs but like everyone we have to decide on wat actions we take.

I believe if your beliefs conflict with your job, no matter what job it is, then it is time to look for another job.

i am a former marine of 6 years time, Semper Fi, to my fellow brothers in arms. we take an ouath when we join our countries armed services and that will always be our first priority as a soldier. But my beliefs help me as a military man and gave me strength to draw from in times of need, and was always calmed in times of stress which was very often with my job. So i would say still rely on your beliefs as you need them.

catseye...a better analogy would be roman legions.

as for values, id suggest you look up the army values. not all live by them, but that is what a soldier is supposed to be all about.

i wrote a song called masks...in it i mention how so many of us must wear masks so frequently. im in the guard, and i wear one the entire time im on duty. i also wear one at my day to day job, and in the majority of all my interactions.

~W~

As I keep suggesting, it may be all political. The military, no matter which faction thereof, acts like a college with the training of the thought process. You see, colleges have a mind set that trains the students a certain way of thought, such as words to choose from based on the intelligent discussional topics, how to use phrases accordingly due to which ever level of education one has or is going through, as well as how to discern those certain types of speech qualities and manipulate a conversation via word patterns and associations.

In other words, college teaches its students how to communicate via the "system" as to what it teaches. Military as a collegiate input device, narrates how one should think, feel, act and look.

One does not need to throw away their regular thinking patterns just to fit in, the military tactics are mellow and allow to for adjustment. It is like going to a differant country and learning a new dialect from that country based on accents. One would catch on quick if one were adept, or aware enough intellectually.

My answer here would be as thus: Before you join any branch of the military, at least get to know what you may be dying for, why you are joining in the first place, what the political play(s) are, why it started in the first place, is it for a good cause and not just a money run for more oil or other "economical" excuses.

Just use some common sense. Test the waters, if there are more followers of "name religion here" then there are people with the same beliefs as yours, then adjust accordingly to your environment.. adapt. Then, if a discussion comes out that all feel comfortable with engages, then the more power to you all. If not, then it is just best to let it be. Wait for them to come to you.

Remember, the military is a non-negotiable place. Their ways are the be all end all once you join. Which is why common sense is a must if one wishes to survive in the ranks and I mean metaphorically here as well as physically, and mentally not to mention spiritually.

I totally agree. We do not need to hide our beliefs. Our belief helps us be who and what we are. Being a soldier puts us in places we dont wanna be in and having a belief helps us maintain our mentality. We should never hide who and what we are.

I keep seeing commments about roman liegons and conscription in here, and it keeps reminding me of how blessed i was/am.

I have been in the service of my country for over 30 years now military and civilian, sme job after retirement just no uniform.
but the one thread i want to pick up is this isn not a conscript force, i thank god every day that everyone around me is here by choice and wasnt forced to come here. it makes a huge diffrence, even thouse who have decided that it is not the life for them for the most part will tough out thier first hitch because they made a commitment. that alone speaks well of them and makes it harder to loose them. belief systems are varied but there is a comradeship of arms the will form a bond rather quickly if you let it. it is called a TEAM and is more powerful than you would imagine. certainly by those who choose it.

I like the old days when a King fought beside his army.

not exactly practical today. the last time such a thing was not uncommon was napoleons day. in a time of multil million man armies, having a political leader (or even a general officer) fight in the ranks would just be foolish.
~W~

Military always changes a person.. they see so much death in the world and hate.. that they tend to see the world differently . and that is something that everyone should see though.. just not for everyone.. because.. the world is not all happy dubby.. but pain and anguish is the everyday life for most people. especially now..

I like the postings of Temporary2 and leoderloewe14 a lot. I am a Vietnam vet. When I got back from there I could not talk about this very issue. The conflict between my value system and what I had to do to complete the mission I was asssigned.

I was aassigned to MACV and was the Intelligence/Operations Advising Officer for a Company sized Vietnamese Unit based in the Central Highlands. My mission was to identify and kill or capture Viet Cong. And I became pretty good at it. I ws only there for a one year tour. I came back in March, 1970 with a lot of self doubt about myself. Were the people that I had targeted and killed really Viet Cong? Did I have enough information about them to be sure about it? I must have killed innocent people somewhere along the way. The more I thought about it the more I began to convince myself that I had betrayed my values. But I worked my way out of that and, I believe, am a better human being for it.

I would hope that this thread has helped our fighting men and women. Based on my experience and the trouble I had adjusting when I came back, I would simply add to what many others have said before that I think My Army had it right when he adopted the word "adapt". You don't leave your values at the border. But you don't let your values get yourself or your buddies killed. You do your best to kill or capture the enemy and you try not to kill or maime innocent civilians along the way. For all other decisions, you adapt your values to the situations with which you are confronted. And then you live with it, realizing that you did the best you could in an impossible circumstance.

food4thought

If we entered in semantics everyone is innocent in their own eyes (external labeled convictions is the variance), and their ways are the right ways to deal with the situation (in military stance); beliefs are their just to remind yourself of how you behave on your life in coalescence with the doctrine, the rest is a program you choose to follow; thats what "In god we trust" deal is all about- defending your ways at all cost and having your God to support you on your self designed trappings. It is evident that the large amount of humans still suffer the natural immaturity level of seeing things past their own scope to even learn how to really deal it with rational approach; is a constant struggle to defend their own interest and the supposed created interest of the nation on the false pretenses of "justice", avoiding the EVIDENT basic interest of the planet(humans) at whole or the integration of other cultures in your socio-economic and infrastructural developments and other manners in regards of war resolutions.

All in all is a selfish if not short sighted way to deliver your service-"to your country"- Family(life) if you had the capabilities to see past your love ones or the nation making you fulfill it, most probably don't see it this way but- wars only fills the interest of one nation- narrowing it down- it fills the interest you/others personally require in it, just because you don't eliminate innocent casualties on the process doesn't mean you don't eliminate them after the damage was made- in a worst possible way than actually killing them directly (without entering on psychological and life regenerative profile on an innocent society/individual).

In present times; humans are simply weak enough to let the very system cloud their freelance judgement and how to deal with the situation- for those who do see past it- just choose to ignore it. Conscience only feels for what it witnessed and recorded. For those repercussions that your actions brought to a larger scale on another group or individual is inadvertently or directly accounted so its easy to deal with it after your demanded interest are fulfilled and your country "justice" was served (maybe not on the ones behind the whole ordeal but for all of their nation).

If politics were administrated by a council of Anthropologist and psychologist the world would be a more interesting paradox in regards of understanding the whole behavioral backgrounds of an issue before even thinking about reactionary- is a more viable negotiations to study a situation before stating a course of action that would feed more of the generic undesired solutions if that was "really" the aim.

if your not a soldier but are curious about the mind set, i invite you to read some song lyrics that i think explain it very well. the song is by toby keith, and as a soldier, i think it describes most of the people i work with very well.

I’m just tryin’ to be a father, raise a daughter and a son
Be a lover to their mother, everythin’ to everyone
Up and at ‘em bright and early, I’m all business in my suit
Yeah I’m dressed up for success, from my head down to my boots
I don’t do it for money, there’s bills I that I can’t pay
I don’t do it for the glory, I just do it anyway
Providing for our future’s, my responsibility
Yeah I’m real good under pressure, being all that I can be
And I can’t call in sick on Mondays when the weekend’s been too strong
I just work straight through the holidays, and sometimes all night long
You can bet that I stand ready, when the wolf growls at the door
Hey I’m solid, hey I’m steady, hey I’m true down to the core.

And I will always do my duty no matter what the price
I’ve counted up the cost, I know the sacrifice
Oh and I don’t want to die for you, but if dyin’s asked of me
I’ll bear that cross with honor, cause freedom don’t come free.

I’m an American Soldier an American
Beside my brothers and my sisters, I will proudly take a stand
When liberty’s in jeopardy, I will always do what’s right

I’m out here on the front lines, sleep in peace tonight
American Soldier, I’m and American, Soldier.

now the song is american soldier but i think it applies to the non conscripted soldiers of most countries.
pax yall
~W~

In a time of war belives, are put on hold. Duty comes first.

totally agree. However nothin stops our beliefs. We can use them at times to help us get through tough times that us soldiers have to face.

not exactly practical today. the last time such a thing was not uncommon was napoleons day. in a time of multil million man armies, having a political leader (or even a general officer) fight in the ranks would just be foolish.
~W~


I disagree. It isnt foolish for any man to fight or die for his country. We really need a major official or a public figure to fight along side our brothers in arms. In the least it would inspire others and give our soldiers a much needed morale boost.

As a military wife I've seen my husband and many of my friends go throught this type of dilema.

My husband hides what he is to everyone he works with. When we go to military functions I am not to speak of any of it. I never knew why until someone found out we were wiccan . . . all the sudden people were calling him freak and asking him if he spoke with the dead. One of his superiors even informed him when we moved into base housing that animal sacrifices were not allowed.

It's very different from every other civilian job in that you are with these people ALL THE TIME. You don't just work with them, in many cases you live with them, eat, sleep and socialize with them. Being deemed the "odd one" can really make your life hell.

what branch is he in? at ft hood, there is even an army sanctioned circle that has been set up, and fenced so others can mess with it. all in all they are pretty accepting.
my sister is ex army and is a practicing asatrur like myself and her husband (also army) is a wiccan. they are open about it and have had no probs.

best of luck to you (and contact me if you need some assistance)
~Wolf~

He is Army . . . at Ellington Field in Houston.

My ex is Navy and on his boat it's horrible.

I actually contacted a wiccan counselor at ft. hood for some grief counseling some time ago and they never got back to me. I am also have been feeling very alone religiously since I moved back to Texas.

Wolf is right they are pretty accepting of beliefs. I have been with all types of people wiccans jews atheist satanist and muslim. Its just certain people are dicks.

Does anyone remember the dude on the news a few years back everyone made a big deal about because he was atheist?

Im not sure about alot of places but i was stationed at Ft. Bragg, NC and everyone on base was friendly as hell

for some they hold tight to their beliefs cause it give them hope when things look really bad. but there are those that can be compassionet and willing to learn about other beliefs. i find if you start talking to someone about their beliefs you find simuairitys in them. i was able to balance both a millitray life and my beleifs. for that is where i found my streangth when i needed it. do the job at hand then thank your lucky stars that you still are standing.

It didn't matter what were my Soldier's belief. As long as they were there for each other when the bullets started flying. A lot of them wore emblems proudly and I didn't jump on them about it. I just told them to keep the necklaces inside their t-shirts while they were in uniform. The Military doesn't allow necklaces to be out from under the t-shirts.

ellington field? cool
ive used the px at ellington.
small world eh?

~W~

I was an Air Force wife for 18+ years. The one time I made mention of the fact that I enjoyed watching vampire movies when my ex and I were at a unit party, the Chief sent home vampire porn.

so...where do you find vampire porn again? LOL


typical military sense of humor. one can get in trouble for doing that sort of thing tho.
~W~

lmao! wooow.... moving on...
I don't think people ever push aside their beliefs.... why would they have to, just because they are at war... usually thats where peoples beliefs come out the most. They realize how fragile life is out there.

Military life can not be associate with religion, believe, emotion and feelings. You must know how to separate yourselves from what you are paid to do. Many of my friend, including myself, were soldiers, and yes, we killed, but, the images of the killing will not eradicate the believe of the heart and the mind.

I'd say is more about honer, Loyalty to your Country, your family and friends, without these people we may not be here today, I've lost friends in the Army and they will never be forgotten for what they have sacrificed to keep us safe.

I hate these people who protest at the soldiers funerals, they have no loyalty to anyone and disrespect our families and friends, these people who do that should be taken over to the war zones and dropped off.

One more thing, all you men and women out there in Afghanistan, Come home Safe.

Potesters will never go away...
People are ignorant to the fact that many soldiers may not agree with what they have to do, but they realize that sometimes it is the price that must be paid to keep their ones they love at home, safe and free...

And I have to disagree with the military and religion being separated.... There are specific jobs for ministers and priests... they are also sent into combat with soldiers to keep them spiritually sound in times of war... most or the beliefs and even the pledges include a presence of God. I believe the military is VERY involved with religion.... though it might be Christianity... it's the one article of jewelry that can be worn during flight... a religious necklace... so on and so fourth... So sometimes you have to push aside things like killing... but I know many men and women who would turn to religion after these events happen... and its encouraged by the military... When people come back with PTSD, They are not only sent to mental health experts.... but a religious leader...

Religion is VERY dominate in the military. I feel it goes hand in hand... Along with the countless bibles people receive right before deploying... thats a DEAD give away that the military is greatly involved in religion. I DON'T think it should be separated... people will lose faith when things go bad... loose hope and encouragement that sometimes only religion can give people.

In Afghanistan there were Ministers, Priest and other Religious Leaders that came to the front lines. They were there to administer spiritual aid to us, no matter your religion. I commend them on that, even though it was their jobs, they took a lot of pride in helping out.

Well Don't forget they are over there because this is a religious war that's going on, 90% of wars in the history of mankind are to do with religion, the other 10% is because you get one dictator fighting the other or hostile takeovers, the greed for money and power.

When ever we go to war or just to go out for training our religious leaders go with us. It's mandated in the service because of the Servicemen/womens needs.

After 20+ years of active duty I finally retire a couple years back. I had time to reflect on that. I came to the conclusion that I had balanced my service life and beliefs pretty evenly. I never had to compromise one for the other.

i still just wish i didnt have drill on halloween.
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

~W~