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I personally don't believe in the Christian theology of there being one person that you have to answer to in the end, so my question is this: How do you feel about there being a ONE lord and savior and about there being ONE lord of damnation?

I was raised to believe in such things but as I have explored other avenues and beliefs I am not sure that I do believe in either one. I like to think we continue on in a different way.

I too was raised in that belief but I also looked to other things and places to look up about this and find it hard to believe it.

I raised my chidren to believe as they want and not force any ideas on them..they are all agnostic and do not believe in it..not something that I had taught them but for them to form their own opinions.

that's probably the best way to have them raised.

Thank you TO...I remember what it was like to be forced to go to church when I was growing up and found that I was more confused as an adult so decided to explore other options and ways of believing. If a religion has to be forced on one then what good does it do that individual?

it ain't very good to one's spiritual growth. i eventually chose wicca as my religion

This is a subject I have wrestled with for some time now...I was raised Catholic but after I was on my own, developed my own beliefs...One of them is no one can prove to me that what was written down by man can be the absolute truth that there is anything after this life...If there is then I will be proven wrong and be held accountable for my actions...but I would have lived my life as how I wanted to live it...enjoying it...and if I am right then I will not have wasted any part of it worring about something that is never going to happen...

Ok..now that you have chosen your belief system then could you please post your answer to your own question and why you believe it?

sorry my above post is meant for TO...just to clarify who I was referring to in my post

DedLocke..I like your reasoning as to your beliefs in the afterlife

I personally don't believe in an absolute good or abolute either suchas the christian faith portrays. i believe that the gods are a mixture of both (good and bad).

TO..so you believe they all have a good side and bad side just as human beings do?

yes i do

I can see that point of view..even based on christian religion where it is stated that man was created in God's image..if that is so then wouldn't God him/herself then possess both good and bad qualities?

Thank you DeadlyXDesire...The basic premise to any religion that I have seen is to get people to be nice to one another...the same way that our parents wanted us kids to behave or Santa Claus would only bring you coal for X-mas...

i always thought that was a bunch of bullshit.

Is it so wrong to want to get along with others even though we do not all believe the same but to have an open mind and accept other's viewpoints?

TO..was you referring to "man being made in God's image"?

yeah i was referring man madein god's image. i meant the all santa claus thing

I never understood why they had to make up different things to celebrate something that wasn't even close to what it was supposed to be about...

This is just to be funny and point out things to make one think so please do not take offense anyone reading this... but let's say that Christ did come back... do you want to be the one to explain how we celebrate his birth...by telling him that a fat man in a red suit flies around in a sled with presents made by elves...oh wait that has nothing to do with him...or his death...see it is like this there is the Bunny that hids eggs and children run around and find them...oh wait that has nothing to do with him either...

these holiday's really don't have nothing to do with christianity. jesus wasn't even born in december, he was born in june.

I see your point DedLocke and it is a very valid one. But I do not believe it was those same religions that twisted the meaning or the celebrations that we observe today. I could be wrong so if I am I hope that someone enlightens me on the subject.

You can find anything especially on the internet to make valid points to when or who started certain things...However some believe in everything that is written down to be true or follow it without question...a lot of people can justify things to make it fit their purposes...A person can do a simple exercise that can prove how meanings get changed easily by a person interpreting it differently than someone else...I like using this example and a lot of people used to do this possibly as a child in a class room...but just sit 20 or so people in a circle and write down what you will say to the person on your left...in turn have them say it to the person on their left so on and so forth until the last person repeats what they have heard back to you...then write that down and compare it to what you originally stated and it will be different...

Now add to that circles person who's intent is to change the message to benifit them above others.

Ha Ha there you have a variable not accounted for and excactly my point...that being for people to think for themselves...

DedLocke I agree and usually do not believe any form of media. My ex father in law..may he rest in peace..had a saying "a piece of paper will lie down and let you write anything on it". This does not mean that it is the truth because it is written down.

DeadlyXDesire I like that saying a lot...I am going to have to remember that one...

Is better to die believing in something, then to die without believing in nothing. There are so many avenue into the end and all relate to the same. A hell or A heave. in one side. Reincarnation. in the other side. For others, you just go to sleep, until one day when "the Lord" call for you. My opinion is, we are matter and after our body star to get old, we just stop our journey and we die. Them, there is another subject: The soul. "the end"

We are energy and are drawn to a greater magnetic source. Some have visions of a "God" and others see more.

I was raised in a primarily Methodist house hold but, only the men in the house were full on into the Christianity, so it was a little confusing for me growing up. My great grandmother told me to choose my own path she was an Apache medicine woman. I like some of the value based beliefs but can not fully believe in a religious sect created by a bunch of Kings and Godly men.

Man oh man is this thread reaching. In most faiths, the individual will find that the same deity that gives salvation is the one that damns as well... Nuff said!

My parents have tried to bring me up as a Baptist, and I think that that was the main reason I rebelled to begin with-the fact that they were trying to shove Jesus down my throat everywhere I went. It was them being over-evangelitical that drove me to roam and study other religions.

I have found that Wicca is the best choice...it makes the most sense to me, and it is as ancient as the world itself, whereas Chrisianity has only been around for a few thousand years.

Good point SiLeNt .... =) ... and i also agree with Doru.... I have been Pagan / Druid for 8 years and i was raised southern baptist , i was raised to believe the god so loved the world. if that is the case how can such a loving man condemn the world he loved so much to basically hell on earth and say that should you die in my name you shall be welcomed to my halls and showered with gifts. unforunately he wasn't the only god to say this , i forget the exact name as i haven't studied the norse paths yet , but it is the same with Vahalla. Which just proves my point of Neo-Paganism. Christianity has ripped so much off of the pagans it's almost a shame to celebrate our own holidays anymore, a person can get time off work for yom kippur or kwanza but tell a mngr you want to light a yule log and spent a week reconnecting with nature and you will lose your job and be the talk of the town for weeks. i don't believe in hell either. limbo to an extent but not hell , i am sure if a greater being wanted to torture us they could come up with something better than fire and men and women dressed in leather, some of us might find it a turn on...

Now ~Adina~, you do know that the "druid" path is a priestly path of the pagan faith, yes?

The druid(s) belief in spiritual re-birth is a contrary to the monotheist belief in the"heaven and hell" theory.

I was raised by catholics, but have never accepted the theory of 'one lord, one saviour'. Partial to the 'No salvation, No forgiveness' idealism.

I was raised to believe in god and the devil. But I even as a child had difficulty with the notions and ideals of christianty.

So when I was old enough I started studying different religions and beliefs. I personally believe in the universal power or energy. That there is no one god but multiple beings that help us in our spiritual journeys.

I have begun to believe that as humans we have had the need to categorise things, and name things. We started out having gods for every little thing in life.. to just the one god and a devil.

I think we are evolving to understand in a religious sense that we can throw away titles and see that we are all part of the one source and that is the universe itself.

O Bonewits and Myself were both sent to church as Children but it didn't take, we asked to many questions ans as for one true God? no I don't think so, we are pagan and believe in the God and Goddess.

So let me get this straight, Santa Claus is not real?

I'm not going to step on people's beliefs here for i don't feel it is right since we ourselves would not like people stepping on our own points of view of how we feel about things. I do not raise my children into religion. I am much the same when it comes to letting them formulate their own opinions and even though i myself was raised into a christian household, it did not stop me from taking a new path or new way of thinking for myself.
The only issues i had about churches in general is that if something was being preached to you about that you didn't feel was right or spoken correctly, you can't exactly stand up in the middle of the sermon or raise your hand to question the teacher without perhaps being kicked from the church for being of a different mindset. Maybe that's best saved after a sermon but i much rather enjoy keeping my mind open and free to learning many and all things that capture my interest in this lifetime.
As for a superior being judging us at the end of our roads......didn't it say somewhere that one shouldn't judge lest ye be judged too? Does that mean we can question this superior? ;)

Nice point, Sorvena. I don't think that anyone is entitled to tell another person what their opinions are. That is what makes us so unique in the beginning of things...Opinions, likes, and dislikes.

I have been told that not having beliefs is somehow wrong, and when I post
the reason I don't subscribe to beliefs I am accused of attacking the beliefs of others.

i really do not care who the lord or the savior is... i don't get anyway so why bother believeing anyway?

Dabbler, I suppose some people just tend to take the fact that someone who has no opinion about religion is just in abhorrence toward them all...that doesn't necessarily make it so, but it always makes the populous point out the "fact" that people who are, for example, atheist, don't have a God of some sort...has no opinion for religion, i.e., bashes all Gods and all religions...

In my eyes, everyone is entitled to beliefs and opinion, and if you choose NOT to have an opinion, it is completely fine with me. Others, however, take it offensive...it's just how the world turns.

LOL...Bloodmother I never said that Santa Clause did not exist...I guess that I have been real bad since I didn't even get coal...As far as anyone's beliefs I think that no one should be condemend for stating their opinions...that is why we have these forums and no one can ever change someone else's mind but some might look at things from a different angle...

All I can say is I was born and raised catholic and I still question things and probably always will. I am raising my kids catholic but with the understanding that they can change to what ever they want because for a period of 10 years I did not go to church (unless my parents came for a visit).

I don't believe people go to heaven or hell I believe there soul/spirit just find the peace that is to come after death.

As far as the Christmas part I have always believed that it is not about the presents but about the birth of Christ and that the catholic calendar has been rearranged.

i believe everyone should not be forced to be taught something or be something let them decide .

yes soulshroud , i am very much aware of that fact as i have been studying for 8 years , but the great and wonderful thing about this world of our is , as has been stated above me , we are all entitled to our own opinions , as for wethier or not i personally believe in heaven or hell or santa claus and satan is entirely up to me. i would like to think that while judge ye lest ye be judged applies to everyone , i know however that is not the fact and i would like to think that my soul if not re-born would find peace somewhere between here and the grey viel or summerlands.

I would love to imply a certain application that absolutely belongs in this thread. the statement of "judge not, lest ye be judged yourself." would be the reason why such advocasy for the redemtion value of such Lord(s) exists.

If one judges another based on any merit of value, whether it be a positive or negative value.. Would in fact be "their choice" since we all have freedom of choice do we not? Just bringing it up for the sake of the thread.

I was not judging you though, simply asking a question. To see if you actually knew what you were ascribing to since many of the Rave in my mind are full of "hokie pokie." Claiming to be this and that, having powers of this or that, when if fact... They are simply regular individuals with the thoughts of "to be accepted" and "fitting into the frey."

You may call it an act of judgement if you prefer... I will not hold it against you. You do walk your own path as do the rest of us naturally. But you can see my point as it pertains to this thread... I wonder to which "redeeming" deity I would be going to? If this were considered spiritual crime or "sin" based on certain criteria in certain *cough* religious beliefs *cough*

I feel that the only lord and saviour in my life is me, If I can't save me nothing else can either !

I feel more like I KNOW that there is no one god, devil, or savior (or indeed anything of the sort). People just like to think there is, for it makes them feel safer.
If god created the heavens and the earth and made man in his own image, then why wait so long, what about all the creatures that predate humans such as dinosaurs? Oh wait that's right, according to christians, dinosaurs never existed. And don't argue, because christians are taught to accept the Adam and Eve story as truth.

I believe there is something, but not a deity. There is the 'Universe' and it's power, and I call it this because I cannot think of a better name. Many people will agree. If you ask something of the Universe, you may be granted with it. Ever heard the saying, "If you want something enough, you're likely to get it"? An entreaty to the Universe is far more powerful than a prayer to any invisible deity.

I feel that is your right to Believe that if you choose to , for me I do not believe in the one TRUE GOD! I think there are a multitude of spiritual beings who help and lead us in life . I Think being a good spiritual person means that you except everyone's faith and honor it as you would them. my husband and I have done a lot of reading and alot of things we read have made us come to think that the Jesus myth is just that a myth .

None of us know what we will encounter when we die. Just have to wait until that time comes.

I tryed to get myself to belive there was somekind of an lord when i was younger. But my personal journy thru my life sofar have maded me to dont belive there is any god or devil etc etc. I feel i have myself to count on in this life and what might happen the day i leave this life is something i dont know.

oh good to see you Panter. I thought you were a satanist. anyway , i can't say i personally believe in one or many or none at all , all i know is that i believe what feels right to me and that is that someone "out there" is watching out for me and place my spirit at peace when that time comes.

My personal belief .. is pretty complex but you asked so here you go .. first off who actually wrote the bible ? Why do Christians believe there is a father god .. and a son of god ... but no mother god?
Doesnt it seem odd that god would choose a 14/15 year old to carry his child ? Hmmm isnt that being a child molester? No wonder his priests get away with it . Now dont get me wrong i do believe in a higher power just not sure what it is ... I believe before we are born we have a chart .. basically a plan to live by .. we have a spirit guide that helps us on our journey ...I do not believe in hell ..i think hell is here on earth .. and when we are bad .. we just come back in to this world .. to relearn ... ok thats about the short of it .. i could go on but eh i wont bore ya :)

Yeah I can buy that. Christian and Catholics are the only religions that have people that do those horrible things to children. I don't mean to downgrade one's choice of religion but when the bible says to love and cherish children it doesn't mean molest them.

i don't believe it at all. I know everyone has their views for what they believe in. Can't really tell you my opinion of the after life because im still trying to work out my scence of religion.

I've been raised as a Christian, and I believe in one Lord and Savior, and I also believe in the lord of hell. I don't expect everyone to believe the way I do, but this is what I believe.

I use to believe in taht. but then I learned of new things and that many of the scriptures were rewritten over and over again to add and delete issues over time.
Huge controversey between the old and new testiments. Just remember God did not write the Bibles we read, men did!

Good point, Roma.

I have asked the question many a times as a young girl, being Baptist, the Baptist bible has 66 books in it. However, the Catholic bible, being a domination BEFORE baptist, has 80 or so. Who took out? Who added? Doesn't the bible state NOT to mess with the text of the books? If so, who is wrong and who is right?

I don't believe in just one God and one Devil. I believe there are many Gods and Goddesses, and many demons. I also believe we have the choice of which of them to worship, if any.

It's interesting. I used to believe that but not anymore. I was raised Catholic. Depending on the person, it's easier for them to accept it because they only have 1 that they have to pray to for everything. Not different gods and goddesses for their desires. But at the same time, in the end, I think it all work out the same...but I feel it was also used as a tool to strike a fear in to people. You know, here's what will happen if good, here's if you're bad. But at the same time, when you get last rights...it's like saying you're forgiven for everything bad you did in your life and you're going to heaven anyway.

The more I researched religions, the more it led me to believe in two possibilities:

Either certain events/things in each are real e.g. the great flood, or none of it exists and all were made up and then each religion in their own turn took things from the other. The bible alone bears resemblances to the story of gilgamesh, greek/roman mythology, hinduism, etc. So really you either have to take it as confirmation of the stories, or their downfall as being perpetuated by man and man alone.

Personally, I remain undecided. I live by my conscience, if something doesn't feel right, I don't do it. I aree with others here in saying, if I'm wrong, let me be damned, If I'm right, I die with no regrets.

So, do I believe in heaven and hell....personally, I'll remain undecided until I die.

I believe in being spiritual, however in no way shape or form do I believe in the christian myth. Most people don't believe in the vampire Myths of the times. Why should I or anyone else believe a MYTH about jesus...... A fictional story created by man in order to control the masses. Again what mundanes don't understand they fear. Fear of god is a big weapon to use in order to demand obedience. Stories falsafied in order to back up rules christian rules. DO WHAT WE TELL YOU OR GO TO HELL..... Well if hell is where all the people are that don't follow mundanes social rules, then sign me up..... It will be more fun !

Depends again on the person and their environmental stimuli as well as their individual needs at any given moment.

yes i believe that we all make our own choose as to who to follow and who to think is in charge of what or who .
But most of all i believe the truth will set you free.

I think their may possibly be one god, but he doesn't do everything. Kind of like in Governments the President or Prime Minister is the one in charge but they aren't doing everything.
Like in the Mormon faith they believe there are three levels of Heaven what if there is a person presiding over each under the leadership of god.

And same goes for the underworld.

I have never understood the savior concept. In fact I think it is a bit comical. I do believe that it is important to recognise the current "Prophet" and the curent laws as a token of faith to the covenant.

Those that disbelieve in a covenant, of course, usually do not feel obliged to fulfill their part of the contract.

ANyone who does believe in the covenant (Anyone who believes in any prophet), should be loyal to it, and uphold their end, by honoring the laws of the covenant.

Conspiracy!
It's like saying "My way or No way" Choose your own. Choose from many. It's up to you.

If you are a no believer, and you decided to "believe", where should you go? There are 1000's of religions, cults, groups, societies, and finally, government, that will tell you that "their" way is the way and that the others are the wrong way. If you are living life with respect and love to others, and you are in harmony with nature, for sure, you don't need the drama of an "Organization"

I learned that we worship the same god, people just have different names for him, although i don't really buy into some magic being created the planets and such, i go by hard facts like science, and so far they have proven more than some book that was written 3000 years ago in a language that is no longer spooken the translated into three different languages, and i'm sure if the monks who did the translating, if they didn't know what the word was i'm sure they made it up as they went along.