.
VR
To be or not to be
General Discussion
•  General Discussion Home  •   Forums Home  •



Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
22:32:02 Sep 18 2010
Read 1,925 times

A Vampire. That is the question, and I have one for those who feel they are Vampire.
One,can a person be turned? If so,what does it take?
Two,What is 'The war" Between vampires and the wolves?
Three,what is The ice fang massacre?
Four,who are The trackers? What they truly are, what they do, why they do it?
Five,what is the council? The government?

Are these questions that every "true" Vampire should know the answers to? Or is this the sign of someone who is simply pretending to be a Vampire if they talk about this as if it were true history?

Thank you for your time and thoughts.




•  REPLY  •


NamaahFelenora
NamaahFelenora
Malignant Spirit (49)
Posts: 740
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Limbus Patrum (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Limbus Patrum (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
01:25:15 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,910 times

I am not a vampire, nor do I claim to be a vampire, nor do I know anything about any ice fang thing.

I think it will be interesting to see the answers that will come of this thread. I for one am interested in seeing how many people give insight into the historical aspects of these questions.

Is it real? Who knows. Makes for good conversation though.

Thanks for posting :O)



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
04:30:01 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,901 times

Okay... I'll bite (*grin*)

Can a person be "turned"?

If my theory is correct regarding the true origins of the term "Vampire" and the multi-millennial history of those it defines... then the answer is exactly as we find throughout even the original "Vampire Lore": Women can be "turned" while men cannot.

The term "Vampire" originates from the term first coined in 1047 CE by a Christian Priest who used that term as his own nickname. The term, meaning "feaster" heralds back to the Christian "Agape" "love feasts" that Roman historians claimed were sexually orgiastic in nature. Thus, this priest, who called himself literally "Father Insatiable 'Feaster'" coined the term and, thus, the meaning of what later became the "Vampire" of history.

Thus, as normal men (non-Vampires) cannot "feast" "insatiably" (multiorgasmically) while just about all women possess the potential for so doing, it often takes a true "Vampire" to "Awaken" women to that glorious potential. Of course, this also fully explains why "Vampires" were so hated and demonized and hunted down by normal men since first the "Fallen Angels" and their descendants were likewise demonized and slaughered for the same reason. One of the greatest examples of this can be found in the Bible, in fact (Judges, Chapters 19-21), where almost an entire Tribe was slaughtered for trying to protect those of their community falsely accused of a sexual crime when, in fact, they were actually being targeted for being... multioragsmic descendants of the "Fallen Angels."

Yes... it is far far too deep to go into here. Probably shouldn't even try. If one wishes more examination into this aspect of Biblical history, permit me to refer you to the online edition of "The Arcadian Mystique: The Best of Dagobert's Revenge" whose editors were kind enough to actually discuss my discoveries with me and then publish the results in their magazine.

Now... there is one exception to this in history. In the "Secret Gospel of Mark" there is strong evidence that perhaps the historical Jesus might have attempted to "turn" a man and teach him to avoid the "downtime" that so limits men sexually and, therefore, emotionally and, by extension therefore, spiritually.

As this is found in the oldest of the Biblical Gospels, though excised from the Biblical Gospel, there is a great likelihood that its account is largely accurate.

Okay... this went on far longer than I expected. Yet, even so, barely scratches the surface of what the discoveries are that involve this topic.

As for what it takes to "turn" ("Awaken") another... this gets into the most holy and sacred of ordinances ever bestowed upon Humankind and I shall not attempt to synopsize them here. If interested, simply research either the Sumerian "Hieros Gamos" or the original Christian "Mystery of the Bridal Chamber" as found in the "Gospel of Philp"... both are the same.

This was later demonized as a "Vampire Attack," of course.


What is 'The war' between vampires and the wovles?

Don't know... go ask the screenwriters of the "Underworld" series given that they created this.


What is The ice fang massacre?

No clue as I do not read fictional accounts of "Vampires."


Who are The trackers? What they truely are, what they do, why they do it?

This topic, that of those colloquially called D'hampirs, is a most delicate one and a most tragic one, as well. Yes... they do exist even in Modern times, though as with all things "Vampiric," they do not in the least resemble their portrayal in fiction.

They are the tragic children of "Vampires" and Human females abducted or made orphans by ... and then deliberately trained to seek out and help destroy those few remaining descendants of the "Fallen Angels" who still walk among us.


What is the council? The government?

I think you are asking about the secret society that has existed since the days of the original "Fallen Angels" that still to this day continues the lies of the "Nephilim" ("Fallen Angels") as evil, reptilian (?!) aliens bent on the destruction of Humankind (?!?!?!).

Yes... they do exist. They have been known by numerous names throughout history. Two of the more recognizable names are "The Sons of Jared" and "The Ordre of Zion." As soon as one such name is publicly known, however, it is changed to maintain their anonymity. Thus, any modern organization that claims either of these names is not that most secret of all ancient societies.


- Upir'





•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
05:11:21 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,894 times

I would concur with Upir's historical research on the matter above..as for the 2nd question...the war between vampire and werewolf...there truly never was one. According to researching the practices burning witches at the stake and hunting down werewolves...both the vampire and werewolf were once considered two sides of the same being.

In original literature..even in Bram Stoker's Dracula, the vampire Dracula's chosen form was a wolf...not a bat. Neither vampire or wolf are reported to have a reflection or a shadow. The use of a silver bullet is synonomous to both the vampire and the werewolf as the metal is believed to encapsulate the essenc of moonlight...a necessity to both creatures of the night.

However, again the wolf and the vampire were both hunted down and dealth death for they were considered beings without souls. The greatest aspect of either legend is the fact that either one is quite capable of blending in with "normal" society. Chameleons in a world that epitomizes the vampire and the werewolf as the chosen vessel to represent the evil side of human nature.

As in further research as Upir suggests...the source of the "one being" responsible for the manifestations of later legends we bind ourselves to now..the vampire and the werewolf both...are nothing more than propaganda devices used long ago to hunt down those who were nothing like the visage of average human beings....howbeit that visage was demonized and women and sexuality as a whole was depraved by tales of the Boogeyman and the Monster in your Closet.

War?...what war?...there was and is only a continuing hunt for those that do not fit within the "human" standard. I believe it is called persecution instead.



•  REPLY  •


venumstings
venumstings
Aggressor (83)
Posts: 671
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Wolves of Odin (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
15:35:50 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,872 times

(Bows in utmost reverence)

To the present scenario, well I am not the Vampire and awakening is not concerned to the vampire kinship. Awakening is total different aspect. That is pertaining to refining kinship by erasing bad nature, bad habits and bad tastes.

Vampire by definition is concerned to dire. The transformation into vampire is not the awakening and it is the transformation to having bad nature or habit to become sick in long term.

Well they say there vampire council or vampire govt. I think The US departments and church are having eyes on these phenomena. Even on the sanguinary practice too.



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
20:23:55 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,864 times

You seek the answers to these questions. I shall give you the answers, but whether you believe me is entirely up to you. If you do not, than ha I suppose that is for the best, if you do than, well you have your answers and that is good. Now than, 1. Yes, any human may be turned willing or unwilling. Male or Female, it does not matter, they may not survive the turn, in my opinion that is best. It takes not a specieal person, any vampire from a new born to first generation may turn a human, it does require a bite, seeming as how the venom is located within the fangs, similar to a snake ha. 2. Ah the war, it all started when the Vampires took the Wolves as slaves, eventually the Wolves would take it no longer, they were treated with no respect, they were unallowed to be free as was right. They decided to take control and become free, thus a war errupted between both species. It ended during the late 1400's thanks to a truce. There would be no more blood spilt as long as every one stayed true to the rules and the truce. 3. The Ice Fang Massacre was also a very long time ago. It involved Vampires of course and well..lets just say it ended badely. That topic is rather touchy for me. 4. The trackers. They are different than we, they are much much stronger, stronger even than a new born. They are the reason we are all portrayed as "evil", they do pocess crimson eyes due to their uncontrollable bloodlust. They destroy (kill) every thing they come in contact with. I am sure you can guess why they are called 'trackers', they track us, some of us, and kill us. If we are lucky, we survive but live a life running and hiding. Finally, 5, the council. Well they were the eldest of us, they established the rules that keep us from becoming too out of control. Unfortunatly, they were unable to control themselves and their methods leaving us to end them. There is now, no council, just the kindred.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
21:35:05 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,854 times

Bella, I am curious as to the sources that present this to you.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
21:36:34 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,852 times

*points up to dabbler's question*

That... what he said. ;)



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
21:39:50 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,849 times

My resources? Ha well, I was alive when all of this happened. I was part of it, I am one of the first generation and part of the kindred.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
23:13:57 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,838 times

Well... who can argue with an eyewitness account from several centuries ago, right? Must be true, then! I'm sure that now, dabbler, you must feel incredibly foolish for doubting her. I know I do.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
23:16:53 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,836 times

It is good to now know that Underworld is so historically accurate as well. I would suspect the producer, and screen writer would be in league with actual representatives of Vampires.



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
23:29:59 Sep 19 2010
Read 1,833 times

Do not feel foolish, you could not have known. I am just grateful no one believed underworld to be true, it is bad enough we have hunters and trackers to worry about much less humans panicing over our existance. He may, I do not know, perhaps he dwells on documents. Twilight however did have some resources. The wolves helped with the details haha



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
00:42:47 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,804 times

Upir is correct in that most of the folklore that can be attributed to the way the modern world views vampirism has it's roots in Slavic or Romanian folklore and then spread through out Europe.

As for the time line of vampirism well how far back to you want to go??
Tales of the dead craving blood are ancient and found in nearly every culture around the world. Vampire-like spirits called the Lilu are mentioned in early Babylonian demonology, and the bloodsucking Akhkharu even earlier in the Sumerian mythology. These female demons were said to roam during the hours of darkness, hunting and killing newborn babies and pregnant women. One of these demons, named Lilitu, was later adapted into Jewish demonology as Lilith. Lilitu/Lilith is sometimes called the mother of all vampires.

In India, tales of the Vetalas - wraithly beings that inhabit corpses by day - are found in old Sanskrit folklore. A prominent story tells of King Vikrama ditya and his nightly quests to capture an elusive Vetala. The stories of the Vetala have been compiled in the book Baital Pachisi.

The Ancient Egyptian goddess Sekhmet in one myth became full of bloodlust after slaughtering humans and was only sated after drinking alcohol colored as blood.

In Homer's Odyssey, the shades that Odysseus meets on his journey to the underworld are lured to the blood of freshly sacrificed rams, a fact that Odysseus uses to his advantage to summon the shade of Tiresias.

Roman tales describe the strix, a nocturnal bird that fed on human flesh and blood. The Roman strix is the source of the Romanian vampire, the Strigoi and the Albanian Shtriga, which also show Slavic influence .

In early Slavic folklore, a vampire drank blood, was afraid of (but could not be killed by) silver and could be destroyed by cutting off its head or by putting a wooden stake into its heart.

Medieval historians and chroniclers Walter Map and William of Newburgh recorded the earliest English stories of vampires in the 12th century.
Many vampire legends also bear similarities to legends and religious beliefs regarding succubi or incubi.


The English word vampire was borrowed perhaps via Serbian or, according to some sources, from Hungarian (The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English. 1955) . The Serbian and Hungarian forms have parallels in virtually all Slavic and Bulgarian languages.


PLEASE NOTE:
For those that don't know and I do...
The word Upir is a term for vampires which is found for the first time in written form in 1047. It was in a letter to a Novgorodian prince referring to him as 'Upir Lichyj' (The Wicked Vampire).



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
00:44:07 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,803 times

Bella? Are you suggesting that Underworld is a true story?



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
01:39:00 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,792 times

Bella, I believe, is capturing on quickly to the English language and creative writing. I much enjoyed her contribution to the conversation...:)

Be ever so Blessed Always...^^



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
02:18:05 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,787 times

Yes, Oceanne, I am. There was a war between us and the wolves, it was similar to that, ha although we certainly had no such thing as a gun. We had only our wits, natural objects (teeth, claws) and of course beloved swords. ^.^ I am particularily good with daggers and knives. Thank you, Silver I have been in America for centuries, so I have had some practice haha. Although, this new language, using only slang, and words that most do not even know the meaning of is quite confusing.



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
03:24:28 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,782 times

Greetings Bella,
I have never heard of such a thing...
Could you humor me and tell us the date of this War, Location, Clans involved, any relevant information??



•  REPLY  •


FALSExCURE
FALSExCURE
Royal Sire (689)
Posts: 2,396
Honor: 96
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Midnight Symphony (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
04:07:17 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,778 times

You should have been there for the Zombie uprising! We were beating each other to death with our own severed limbs!

Underworld and Twilight were only partially historically accurate. They left out when the zombie horde came and ate all of the vampires and werewolves.


To be a vampire or not to be a vampire. How would one become a vampire in the first place?

If I had a choice, the answer would be no.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
05:23:28 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,772 times

Severus - As for the time line of vampirism well how far back to you want to go?? Tales of the dead craving blood are ancient and found in nearly every culture around the world...


Thank you, Severus... and please understand that what follows is most certainly not anything against your reasoning above given that such is extremely common to most all in vampirology. Yet, I wish to point out below.. as have many Slavicists and prolific vampirologists before me... that this thinking is deeply flawed.

This thinking hinges on the assumption that Vampires actually drink blood. But, in fact, there is far more evidence that they did not than exists that they did... which fact has been pointed out by many such as Dr. Paul Barber ["Vampires, Burial, and Death: Folklore and Reality" pg. 100], Dr. Sabina Ispas, ["There are no bloodsuckers in Romanian tradition.", 2000 World Dracula Congress], and even www.sanguinarias.org that points out that in the actual Vampire panics, almost no mention is made of blood drinking

(See my profile for the full quotes and hyperlinks to the primary-source evidences.)


Thus, if originally Vampires were not actually blood drinkers, if this trait was a vicious lie, a false demonization concocted only centuries later (which most certainly appears the case, as pointed out by Dr. Barber ["Vampires, Burial, and Death: Folklore and Reality" pg. 100], Dr. Sabina Ispas, ["There are no bloodsuckers in Romanian tradition.", 2000 World Dracula Congress], and even www.sanguinarias.org that points out that in the actual Vampire panics, almost no mention is made of blood drinking), then perhaps seeking ancient accounts of blood-drinking monsters and buggaboos as possible "vampires" ... is pointing us in the wrong direction!

Lest we have forgotten, the term "Vampire" itself was first coined in written form by a highly educated Christian Priest who in a 1047 CE document called himself by the very name of "Father Vampire."

Obviously, this undeniable historical fact immediately calls into serious question almost all of the supposed key identifying characteristics of the "Vampire" as we consider them in the Modern age (i.e., a crucifix-fearing, blood-drinking, fang-wielding, daylight-abhorring reanimated corpse).

Additionally, had this 11th Century Christian Priest so openly called himself a "Vampire" in those times and had that term meant to any degree what it means today, can there be any doubt but that he would have immediately been stripped of his priesthood, excommunicated, interrogated, tortured and then gruesomely put to death? Instead, this highly esteemed Christian priest worked as key translator of Biblical texts for the very Czar of Russia, himself!

We do not find "Vampires" today because we continue to foolishly use traits ascribed as "vampiric" to identify all such that weren't even claimed as "vampiric" until literally several centuries at least after the term "Vampire" was created. Small wonder no such reanimated blood-drinking corpses have never been found! What else could you possibly expect?


Think about it this way: A few centuries ago, witches were falsely claimed to abduct children and eat them. Now... if today we were to attempt finding witches using such vicious lies as truths, how successful would we be? For that matter, if we used that same cannibalistic trait to seek "witches" in the past, would we fare any better in finding them?

So why is it we continue to illogically seek "Vampires" in history using traits that were not what defined such at the time the term, itself, was first coined and actually used?


- Upir'



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
14:01:02 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,761 times

Well, Severus, some information is classified due to the fact this is a forum and can be viewed at any time by any person wandering about. The date's are a bit complicated seeming as how where we were time is different. It started during the 1400's and ended as I said around the late 1500's. The location as well is..Not to be told. I must be able to truely trust that you are of an inhuman race to tell you more. Lord Zombie, Zombies do exist, thank you for reminding me, although they came after the war, surely you know how they came to be? Also that they were inhuman, that is what makes them so dangerous, not to mention how very quiet they are, not loud and obnoxious as movie zombies. Upirlikhyj, it is true, some of us do not drink blood, they are psychic vampires, they feed off of engery. My kind however do drink blood, if we do not for a long period of time will get very ill and weak, and eventually die of starvation. Similar to a Human that does not get the nutriance it needs.



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
14:06:30 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,760 times

Also research? HA. Research tells you nothing, for one there are things that are not written in literature. There are things, places that you cannot find on your computer simply because you are here in a human country. Not to mention your government hides things from you, that I am sure of because they are the ones that would kill us if they knew we were in America and not in our own country. No one knows the true origin of Vampire, or Wolves. Not even I, the closest is most likely us, the first generation. Dracula was for sure not ha because I was alive before he was even thought of in his mother's mind.



•  REPLY  •


PAGAN
PAGAN
Great Sire (116)
Posts: 6,621
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Chateau Orleans (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Chateau Orleans (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
14:40:14 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,756 times

very interesting Bella, however, I need proof of some sort, otherwise, what you are saying here is just a story. I do understand your point about research however.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
15:40:06 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,754 times

I'm sorry... but I, for one at least, do not understand Bella's indictment of research.

It is through research that we investigate ... everything! Without research we would still be stuck in the Dark Ages burning witches at the stake, throwing Human sacrifices into the mouths of volcanoes, cutting out people's hearts on altars, dying like flies from small-pox, bubonic plague, and all other diseases imaginable, all while being scared to death of every superstition that anyone's imagination can conjure up and convince gullible populations to believe!

Have we so quickly forgotten how the Spanish Conquistadors so quickly and easily enslaved an entire continent (Central and South America) with barely a handful of men due to their convincing the gullible native populations into believing they were gods?! Had those same populations cultivated an inquisitive attitude and conducted just a bit of RESEARCH, they could have soundly dispelled the Europeans' lies and whipped them off their lands and preserved their culture and kept their entire continent. Instead, it was their attitude against research, against inquiry, against seeking evidence before believing, that so quckly and decisively doomed them.

If Bella and others wish for a return to such ignorant times, then they are welcome to do so (in which case, of course, they would need to give up their laptops and computers as both are only two of the innumerable results of research). However, I, for one, shall always champion the use of the brain I possess (regardless how abnormal it might be... hehehe) to never engaging a single brain-cell and believe anything and everything that anyone might claim (such as someone here claiming to be over 1600 years old and then refusing to answer any questions about such a claim on the basis of her declaring research to be worthless).


- Upir'




•  REPLY  •


venumstings
venumstings
Aggressor (83)
Posts: 671
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Wolves of Odin (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
16:11:43 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,750 times

(Bows in utmost reverence)
Well in India, Baital is the ghost in the form of structure having skull no flesh narrated in tales. But Baital is not the vampire it does not crave for the feast. Baital is nearer to the ghost than the vampire. But in India Pishacha is the word for vampire. And in Indian epics they used to come at the place of war and fights after it fought and peepal dead in the battle or lonely dead bodies to drink blood. The feature of Pishachas (vampires) having puss and wounds on their body and survive on human blood. Other kin vampire is chudail which was living among human and used to kidnap kids or thin human kin or vamping the guys and feed on them. But this is not happening in present world. That is old tales now. In practical world there any such entity is not seen in current era.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
16:53:47 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,745 times

Exactly, Venum; here are only a few examples of beliefs in monsters that, when actually examined, do not much resemble at all the Slavic Vampire. Yes, they do eat flesh/blood and/or have sharp fangs and/or rise from the grave. But... come on, let's face it... what "monsters" stemming from the nightmares and scary imaginations of any of us wouldn't have one or more of such traits? After all... such traits are what we fear most!

This speaks far more the universality of Human fears and, thus, our collective nightmares than it does anything about such common "monster" traits meaning they all must be some type of "vampire."

(Oh, and oops... my mistake. I was referring earlier to someone here claiming to be over 600 [not 1600] years old.)


- Upir'



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
18:16:17 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,742 times

~ just once inna while Upir, I thank wotsits for your words, research and, sanity.

Much as a nice lady meant well with her question here.. it sure brought out a few looney tunes.

[Oh dear, did I say that??]

There is myth, fact and, Hollywood. I so wish some would stop looking to Hollywood, for anthing but fiction!

I won't name names, but sheesh.. read this thread back.. anyone.. and you'll see who I mean.

Incidentally, I have belief.. just not in the hollywood telling, that "some" seem to accept, so easily.

Again Upir, I thank wotsits for your words, research and, sanity.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
19:43:55 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,733 times

Correct me if I am wrong,but several of our own researchers Bella happen to be Vampires theirselves am I safe in saying that Upir?So just to clarify,I am posting this for everyone's benefit.

I do agree in that it is our concept of Vampire that is a source of much of the controversy we see.



•  REPLY  •


PAGAN
PAGAN
Great Sire (116)
Posts: 6,621
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Chateau Orleans (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Chateau Orleans (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
20:27:39 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,728 times

Upir, my apologies..I meant that I do understand that research does not uncover all the facts we seek.

I am a research student myself, and I know how important it is to provide evidence to back up claims, therefore I was asking Bella for some sort of evidence to support her claims, whilst agreeing that sometimes we cannot see everything



•  REPLY  •


FALSExCURE
FALSExCURE
Royal Sire (689)
Posts: 2,396
Honor: 96
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Midnight Symphony (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
21:05:37 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,725 times

My post was a joke in case anyone missed that. Well, except for the not wanting to be a vampire part. Some may ask why I'm on this site then.

Because, I choose to be. Simple enough?

Upir and Dab, thank you for the sanity.

Oceanne, you are a good friend and I hope I haven't disrupted your thread. My apologies if I did.


I do agree that the research and history on this matter has spoken loud and clear.

It doesn't take a genius to figure this all out.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
22:03:00 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,721 times

Oceanne, there are many here who claim to be vampires, as also does Bella. Whether they are or not, as well as whether they are actual researchers or not, only the evidences they provide in support of their claims or theories reveal whether such warrant our attention and consideration... or not.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
22:09:47 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,719 times

Pagan, it was most certainly not to your post that I was responding. You stated wonderfully in your own response to Bella that evidence is needed when claims are made, which is absolutely the case.

True, research may not immediately reveal the answers, which only means that more investigation (research) is needed. However, remove research (investigation and experimentation) from the equation and.. there can be no true answers to any question.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
22:29:47 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,717 times

I would like to see some representation from those who distinguish themselves from those who identify as vampires, with the subtle variation Vampyre, it seems reasonable that they would have a research base for their convictions to be founded upon.


Very few significant events in any culture, or civilization occurred without being logged in some sort of journal. The more pertinent that record the more registered the event will be, even in early cultures Oral tradition preserved significant events, and in most cases such oral histories made it to journals, then to print.


Most noticeable in those who identify as vampires is the redundant declaration of "what vampires are not", nothing (with the exception of Upir) has been offered to foundation such claims.

Here we are, on a Vampire Site, that offers a data base, and not one individual that claims to be a vampire (with the exception of Bella presently) has presented any article to support their conviction.

So there is obvious no significance in subscribing to an empty
ideology, clearly those who declare themselves to be vampires can see the nativity in that.



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
23:24:14 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,711 times

I say, I remember talking of your computers (in the human countries, not every computer holds the same information). Also that "some" research is not accurate. I stated at the beginning if I recall that most of you would not believe me, it is only in your nature, in every one's nature to refuse the truth. Ecspecially some thing of this nature, does not all History sound as a story? What if I were to ask "what was the world war, the depression?" Is it not required that you all know that? If I were to talk of this war, this "world war" would you have yet the same responses that you did for ours? Upirlikhyj, I am 6,016 thank you. And yes, I do claim that just as all of you claim your age. It is stated in all writings that we age quite slowely, no? I have said many times throughout this forum that I am one of the first generations, have I not?



•  REPLY  •


23:26:26 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,710 times

LMAO!!!!
This is all from movies and books...
please... real vampires... please give us your point
of view on the fiction that is a vampire....
This is a bit ludicrous if I may say myself...
wars of vampires and wolves? once again...LMAO!
Sounds a bit twilightish to me...
and dear god do I hate that series...
But by all means....
to all of those real vampires who just crawled of
of the twilight and underworld cinema...
please enlighten us....



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
23:39:25 Sep 21 2010
Read 1,704 times

Bella, it is not we who "refuse the truth." We asked you for evidences in support of your claims.

You... refused to provide any such evidences, resources, or anything else to help us understand your claims.

The only one here refusing anything... is you.




•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
00:36:29 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,697 times

What more evidence can I provide than what is embedded within my memory, that I saw with my eyes. I am sure there are files but even than, as I said we are limited to what we make known, also what I said we are not even supposed to be in this country. Should your government some how read these threads, they would certainly know of what I am, what we are and not hesitate to end us. Whomever may have wished to know the true answers to those questions now has them. Should any one doubt them, than so be it perhaps that is best. There is a reason we have still been seen as myths and legends, even after mellinums of people knowing.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:37:37 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,696 times

I admire those who appreciate fantasy, fact and myth [and, all that lies inbetween].. and unlike others here, who have been polite.. I'll say this Bella.. Sheer Tosh..
..as someone else wrote here, every word you've written, I'ce recognized from films.. grow some.. you're as much a real vampire as I am the next Messiah.. and no, I make no protestations that I am.. and lass, if you have one iota of self-respect, you'd stop spouting such drivel. Though I'll lay odds, you're so caught up on the Hollywood glitz, you are glamoured to common sense and any vestige of reality.

As I intimated, I know of those who are photochomatically challenged, with severe gum recession, or those with eyes of res; and even those who have been considered risen from the dead..

.. but you Bella, I repeat, 'you are glamoured to common sense and any vestige of reality.' You have my pity.




•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
00:39:47 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,695 times

Photographs ,documents and first hand accounts can be easily provided for both the depression and ww2.These examples cannot be compared to tales and movies.The dinosaurs have been gone for millions of years , yet we find evidence of them on a daily basis somewhere in the world.As well as alot of other things.
Also never ever,has there been evidence of a race that is so like the modern human that even a blood test cant tell them apart.Not even a tooth.And teeth,dont go away.So if ever there were a war between wolves and Vampires,Im sure one of them,lost a tooth or two.And even if one of them were very thorough in cleaning up afterward,Im sure thast a few teeth and things would have been overlooked.
And Zombie? Your joke was not lost on me.
Last but not least,if everything is such a secret,then a true Vampire would never say one word to indicate its exsistance.A spy does not tell the world he..or she is a spy.



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
00:54:55 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,691 times

If you will read my posts you would find all of the answers. I say your country. What time did I say the war was in this country or give a name to that location. What do you know of Vampires when all you have are research documents passed down from centuries and changed every few years? Perhaps the first documents were accurate and had some proof but are lost now due to writers changing of words and phrases. I have given what you wished, believe what you will, I could care less I know what I viewed with mine own eyes.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
01:00:40 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,687 times

nonsense, sheer nonsense.
[subtle enough?]



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
01:06:48 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,685 times

I have read them Bella,as well as spoke with you..you are really nice and I enjoyed our conversations,but it really makes no difference whether it would be any country.Any where in the world,or from what time.You keep saying human countries..Meaning that you come from a non human country..there arent any here Im afraid.I just feel its time for everyone to lay off the fantasical when it comes to claiming to be a vampire.
And no,Im afraid you have given us no answers or any evidence to lend credence to your claim.
I know what you would hope to have us believe,but evidently,it isnt happening because those like yourself are still unwilling to provide anything other than..well,claims and airs of oracle like mystery.It doesnt really wash here.So please,just give us one thing that can be proven.
One.
Not just an account.But solid evidence.

And about the documents..yes,things do change as do stories ..and what makes a researcher good is one who can weed through the crapp and zero in on the pertainent stuff.



•  REPLY  •


BelladonnaBCera
BelladonnaBCera

No Longer Registered
01:12:38 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,681 times

Don't you mean photochemically meaning lack of happiness, miserable, unhealthy? Photochomatic is not a word, and as I said believe what you will.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
01:18:30 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,678 times

why oh why is this drivelling non-entity allowed to speak such drive;.
The questions as stated where valid.. Bella has turned this into a look at me' thread and, offered nothing to corroborate her words.. how sad.

Sorry Oceanne, I respect you highly; but I like more than mere words, before I believe the fantastic.. it's why I'm not religious, at all.

this is coming off my beloved threads.. I don't want to read more of that one's detreous.

Again, sorry Occeane.

**Bows respectfully.**



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
01:33:38 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,672 times

Dont be sorry Angelus,I value yours and everyone's opinions as well as evidence that has been provided us...Thank you Upir,for you wonderful research and evidence..Severus,GOC,Zombie and others for your logic.For your imput too Bella.It is ashame however,that once again,certain types of claims can never be supported in any manner and always end up on the note of "Believe what you will".
I wonder why.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
01:44:12 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,669 times

"Oceanne, there are many here who claim to be vampires, as also does Bella. Whether they are or not, as well as whether they are actual researchers or not, only the evidences they provide in support of their claims or theories reveal whether such warrant our attention and consideration... or not."

Upir,you've got that right..and this is why I consider you to be one of the best when it comes to the subject of Vampires ,their history and what I feel could very well be their true nature..just as I consider Dab one of the best when it comes to picking apart aspects of the mind.
So to all of you,thank you.



•  REPLY  •


NamaahFelenora
NamaahFelenora
Malignant Spirit (49)
Posts: 740
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Limbus Patrum (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Limbus Patrum (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
02:12:53 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,665 times

On the research part, there have been several books and papers and historical pieces lost through WWI and WWII and even before that. We have and always will lose parts of history (that cannot be researched anymore because they are gone) to the future, whether it be wars or mother nature.

But everything else is not making sense. I guess what I am trying to say is:

In 1378 I was born to a one legged woman named, Stub, and my father was a werewolf of the hairy-ass clan. Of course my mother couldn't run very far on one leg so she got pregnant. Well, soon after, a war broke out. It was the war between the hairy-ass clan and the one-legged feminists (yes they existed even back then). Anyways, the werewolves won of course because they could totally outrun the feminists who could only jump on one leg. The war was great, many feminists died, and two werewolves were injured from being kicked in the gonads. I know this because I was just a little tyke and I saw it all with my own eyes. Now of course, I am over 600 years old and have a soft spot for one legged people and people with hairy asses. (oh the good ol' days). You can't research it because there was nothing written...until now.

I am such a JACKASS!

okay...I had to do it.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
02:17:17 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,663 times

But you sure as hell prove your mom had one leg!!



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
04:45:30 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,644 times

In Bella's defense... I feel we have gone a bit too far in our rhetoric here against her. While her claims are unsupported, yet they are certainly no less so than those of many on VR who claim to be vampires.

No... I am most certainly not supporting those who make such claims without evidence nor am I defending such claims. I simply don't feel we need to tear others apart verbally for making such claims.

Let's maintain our intellectual acuity but back off any personal attacks, which should be beneath us all.


- Upir'




•  REPLY  •


Wolvie
Wolvie
Venerable Sire (131)
Posts: 4,012
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 20 years.
05:51:53 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,639 times

Upir most of what you said in your original post was pretty accurate except for one minor point. The war between the werewolves and vampires was not created by the writers of underworld. It was only popularized by them. The creators as far as I know was the writers from a gaming company called white wolf. They produced a series of roleplaying games in this genre in the 90's. The first two being; Vampire: The Masquerade and Werewolf: The Apocolypse. These also introduced the idea of clans.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
05:56:50 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,636 times

Thanx, Wolvie, for that; I am certainly happy to bow to those whose knowledge of fiction runs deeper than my own. Much appreciated!



•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
05:59:49 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,634 times

Upir my friend please forgive my attempt at a humorous opening generalization to my comments. I was not attempting to say that Vampires have to consume blood but that the concept of those who feed on the human populous in general. I believe if you look at the diverse folklore and mythology of culture the world over you will find the vampire legend goes back almost as far as man does. This was the point I was attempting to convey not to establishing a specific archetype.

To address the subject of research I would like to add that this also should be view with a grain of salt. Research can often be as flawed as the researcher... it is not the end all be all and Science is often very wrong. An example would be that most individuals are willing to believe that we are suffering from global warming because of all the research that has be done on the subject, but the fact is they had to do a Qualitative Reconstruction to obtain their findings.
A Qualitative Reconstruction is done when there is no history to go on, in this case a reconstruction is needed because a reliable surface temperature record exists only since about 1850.
Using historical records & data such as times of grape harvests, ice-free periods in harbours, shipping records, and diary entries of frost or heatwaves to produce gave some indications of when it was warm or cold in particular regions. These records are hard to calibrate and are often only the guess of what the actual temperature might have been from a medieval farmer.
They are basically guessing based on data gathered from this process. In the end any type of research maybe intellectually sound but not necessarily historically accurate.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
06:38:57 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,629 times

Severus,

If you are equating "research" with such statistical analyses as those used to conclude as "factual" such things as "Global Warming," I would agree.

As Mark Twain quipped so wickedly, "There are lies and there are damned lies... and then there are statistics."

However, statistical analyses are hardly the sort of true investigation and research to which I referred or on which actual scientists or scholars primarily rely. Statistics serve only to help identify possible trends or target areas for actual research. Thus, critiques of the inherent limitations of statistical analysis does not effectually criticize the the far greater and more comprehensive fields of research and investigation, of which the field of statistics plays only a peripheral role.


- Upir'




•  REPLY  •


Severus
Severus
Sire (107)
Posts: 517
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
06:45:09 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,627 times

lol

Correct... and Mark Twain Also said:

"If you don't read the News you are simply uninformed, if you do read the News you are simply misinformed."



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
16:30:14 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,610 times

LOL! Love it!

Of course, despite Twain's often too-ascerbic wit at the time and the underlying difficulties such humor points out, I don't think anyone would seriously argue that effective investigative journalism is not useful and, in fact, key to the discovery of high-level crimes and, therefore, of great assistance to us all.

So also for investigation (research) of any sort, I would argue.


- Upir'



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
16:49:42 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,604 times

So far on Ice fang..

Description
The Ice Fang is the alpha male of the Ice wolf pack having ascended through the ranks of the Ice Wolfs through sheer ferociousness. Few can stand against this monster of a Wolf and live, and those who do come out with fewer limbs than they went in with...

This from a game called Fallen Sword.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
16:53:55 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,601 times

And a game is relevant to the question of who we might perceive ourselves to be... how? ;)

Or have you encountered those claiming to be vampire or wolves who use as that claim such fictions to the point that games are claimed as such sources? If so... wow! Scary sad!




•  REPLY  •


RedQueen
RedQueen
Great Sire (118)
Posts: 336
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
The House of Umbrae Octo is a member of an Alliance

Member of The House of Umbrae Octo
Vampire Rave member for 20 years.
22:24:17 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,590 times

I have seen several of these threads come and go over the five years that I have been here, and one common theme has run through all my answers: Mostly, that all writings, stories, myths, legends, movies, etc. are all just different tellings of the same legend, including Bram Stoker's book, although I regard that as just another story to feed the masses. I believe that in every piece of "vampire fiction" there may be a single piece of truth involved, but that the story, myth, book, etc as a whole is fiction.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
22:49:34 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,586 times

The newest trend is reinterpreting, or outright attempting to amend the word vampire and basically hijack it in an attempt to appear extraordinary.

yet when it comes down to supporting ones amended ideals they always get dodgy and offended.

So in a manner it is they who mock themselves with their attempt at impressing, and intimidating others with empty ideals.


Serverus, and Upir have been the only individuals here who have brought substance to the thread, and that is remarkably noteworthy.



•  REPLY  •


venumstings
venumstings
Aggressor (83)
Posts: 671
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Wolves of Odin (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
23:45:20 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,582 times

(Bows in utmost reverence)
Please don’t laugh at me. After I conversant after successful testing of meditation, energy moving and using conscious in aura seek, I tried to be vampire who intake energy from either from space and substitute aura from environment. But it is most harming to me. Coz I was doing this using my subconscious. I when took the energy from space, I was locked in subconscious state for long hours and even three days too. To come out of it I had to do relaxing exercise shavasana. So I suggest not to fall in this phenomena. Coz this realization is not on the plane of absolute reality. But it is the plane of dire just like our physical plane with physical order. It can harm the entity’s day to day life if the kin do not take it above the dire or intake of energy.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
23:57:36 Sep 22 2010
Read 1,579 times

**pokes head in and shakes it, again**

.. anyone, with the ability, to analyse, define and redfine, as does wolfie, Dabs and Upir, deal with what it intrinsically true, whilst ideally tempering that with the knowledge, that they don't know it all.. which is why I listen to them.

.. those are those, infortunately, whose words leave me.. empty.

I have known much in my time here [Earth] and during that time, I have encountering things, that mundanes scoff at.. but, as I have no evidence, of that which I've experienced, other than my own knowledge, I would neve seek to pupport knowledge where there is none.

Rather, I now listen and, read of others.

Someday, I may be surprised.. hasn't happened yet.


NamaahFelenora ~ your piece earlier in this thread gave me a chortle, unlike I've enjoyed for days.

Thank you.

**Bows**

[with due reverance, to all those here, who share.]



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
01:43:21 Sep 23 2010
Read 1,565 times

Yes,Upir,the Ice Fang had been used as a reff as if it were real and it was that conversation which inspired my questions.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
03:44:22 Sep 23 2010
Read 1,545 times

It also comes down to how well they can convince their peers, or impress those they already consider convinced.

Then they hope for someone to come to their defense for their extraordinary claim, they want to rally people with moderate ideals
that are acceptable (though still fringe) in nature.

Basically making a routine claim to be a vampire on a site were one in 10 members identifies as a vampire is not very "freakish", so certain indviduals push the envelope.

Another thing i have been noting is the redundancy of "How is it to be a Vampire? Type threads.

such threads get plenty of entries testifying to the angst of those who identify as vampires, and how silly "nonvampires are for not seeing past the "hollywood" vampire type, and yet .. well
yet still the table.. with many chairs.. sits empty.. but for two articulate members.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
13:32:30 Sep 23 2010
Read 1,533 times

and those articulate members opinions are needed.
free-thinkers are so needed.



•  REPLY  •


ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

No Longer Registered
17:22:51 Sep 23 2010
Read 1,526 times

A valuable conversation, one that explores the depths of human suffering and the philosophical side of why otherkin ~ may or may not be.
One that has led me to meditate and think deeply about my own transition and that of my peers. Upon reflection one is led to the inevitable conclusion it is our state of minds which causes this dis-ease.
Suffering post traumatic trauma, stress, depression, addiction are all common themes and as such other kin are mentally ill and compulsive liars, not cognitive but subconsciously necessary to protect, to re-enforce the protective layer provided by the escapism of the "other-kin" reality constructed, almost like group hysteria.
If only the blood thing would go away we would have it all
wrapped up.

What if I didn't want to be a spy? Bows, glances up and smiles-wryly.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
01:29:03 Sep 24 2010
Read 1,508 times

.. self-deprecation isn't a virtue, but it's good that you could findvalue in the owrds of others here.

.. that's well cool lass.



•  REPLY  •


FALSExCURE
FALSExCURE
Royal Sire (689)
Posts: 2,396
Honor: 96
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Midnight Symphony (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
04:09:34 Sep 25 2010
Read 1,481 times

Just a question, this may help the discussion I hope...


Wouldn't vampires be considered parasites? (leeches etc.) I mean if we're talking about the movie version.

If we're talking about real life vampires, no one is born addicted or even nursed on blood. So, what is the relevance in drinking blood?

I know Upir is against the whole blood drinking vampires notion. I would very much like to know his point of view...



•  REPLY  •


MistressModuir
MistressModuir

No Longer Registered
04:11:47 Sep 25 2010
Read 1,478 times

First I would like to say that it is so refreshing to have a place to come to where none is judged and intellect is evidant! On the subject at hand...
"Romance"
"Lust"
"Passion"
"Animalistic Behavior"

All of these things are the epitomy of "Vampire" Although there should be no argument as to where and when this all was generated. It is simple, since the beginning of time everything has been created to be completely different than the next. "Are Vampires real?" Sure they are, and no they are not. The same as religion, have we proof or evidance that God exists? Jesus? All we have to base that is a Big Black book that is called the bible! For centuries and beyond there has always been that exact argument!

I have spent the last 25 yrs. researching all religions. As much as all argue for one or the other there is one common base for all. An almighty high being. Human beings need something to believe in or they are lost.
My opinion and outlook as far as Vampire is this...in all the religions I have studied it is the female of the sex that is most worshipped, most feared, and most hated. Why? Because we have the power to create life, sustain it, and rear it. This is a power greater than any such power in the history of mankind. For all eternity men have been taught that they were the saviors and the protectors. I can see that as far as the construction of societies, the ability to ejaculate, provide, and start or fight wars. They have been our Government, clergy, and stronghold in the safety of our "Freedom" however when it comes to the most important factor of humanity for it's preservation women are the higherarchy.

Now it was mentioned before the ability that women have to be multiorgasmic and men were not. I agree, I also agree that because of this feat it has terrified the religions, and caused the demise of many countries. Ok back to Vampire. Not the romantisized version of the theatre and screen, not the folklore of old and new. It is so simple. Vampire meaning "Feaster, or engorger, or even fulfilled hunger" I believe it encompasses all respects of life. People who are over eaters can not control their eating so fight to fulfill their desires, people who are obsessed with money and baubles will screw anyone over to have it therefor fullfilling their hunger. People who crave power will destroy anyone and anything to gain all power, people who are in fear crave the excitement of being afraid so they put themselves in positions of terror to be fullfilled,People who crave sex will manipulate any situation to get it-I know this because I consider myself a Vampire of the flesh. There are so many types of all of these things and different degrees as well.

I am a controlling person therefor for me not only the sex is my bloodlust it is also the power. I am a Wiccan High Priestess so I manage to keep myself rounded but there are times where sex for me is more like a matter of life or death, now I do have the taste for blood. I do not bite people on their necks with a black cape over my shoulders, I do not turn into a bat, and as far as the Wolf, I believe that through time people have associated with the wolf because sometimes passion and lust can be so forceful and undeniable we can easily undertake the position of the wolf and become one hell of an animal. In addition to what was said earlier on by someone, sex in the old days was missionary if it was anything else is was a sin so when people of extreme pleasure went "Doggy Style" it was commonly associated with the workings of the "Werewolf or Wolf" God forbid anyone exert there true human power to pleasure someone. I have followed the Marquis De Sade's way of thinking in that human beings sometimes bind themselves so deeply into what is right and wrong they tend to forget that it all depends on who is judging. I might agree with one man whom acts out his desire to be submissive while another person might feel the same man is inadequate.


The Thirst, a simple thing, a Vampire can be anyone at all.

Now people from history such as Vlad the Impaler, Bathory, and even Hitler were Vampires in their own right because the taking of a life with power over others fed them the things they craved most. These were Powerful Vampires because their lack of giving a damn what other people thought made them some of the most powerful people in history. their only mistake was allowing the thirst to pull them in and they lost all control.

I have so much more to talk about but my hands are tired. I know I ramble and string along with words but after so many years of self discovery I have so much to share.
Am I a Vampire? Yes indeed I am. I am a mental, physical, and emotional Vampire with a lust and craving for the taste of sex and blood. I am not ashamed.



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
05:35:02 Sep 25 2010
Read 1,471 times

O.k...excuse me a moment while I take a bite out of this very lengthy, sensational conversation...;)

As for Bella's claim of such a ripe, old age...I would merely ask one simple question...can you name a nearby city or province wherewith you were born 6,016 years ago?..I would truly like to know.

As always, Upir, Dabbler, Angelus..thankfully still have their wits..as well as a few more here..GOC and Oceana..:) However...Mistress...I find you miss the point of Vampire entirely, even without the illuminance of Upir's contributions on the topic. While it is true that women have suffered suppression and oppression through the darker ages, and although times in ancient pasts, the female was revered as the embodiment of the Goddess...to then turn your remarks on a diatribe of "men vs women" in a dispute of inequality...certainly man alone cannot ascribe his omnipotence due to "the ability to ejaculate, provide, and start or fight wars."

Considering there is relevent evidence to the contrary, women are also able to do all of these...although few they might be having not yet realized their truer and deeper potentials...most of these by ancient myth were..I believe...called Amazons...;)

As for cravings, blood lust, power, these drives you describe in your narrative sound more akin to addictions often associated with bipolar and borderline personality disorders...of which one could well apply to Hitler or any others you list here. However, you make a point to say their "only mistake was allowing the thirst to pull them in and they lost control"....seems here you are the one battling for control of such untoward thirstings and cravings and you've settled to compare yourself with "fallen men" in hopes to set yourself upon the pedestle of greater womanhood?

I am quite confused by all of these ladies of the night who seem so adamant to express reference to history or historical figures without knowing much about what, whom or the timeline they speak of. I could also ask for research, for proof, for anything..but I think I'll just settle for asking that perhaps you actually "read" the history books, the literature, and the ancient writings and not just skim through it.



•  REPLY  •


MistressModuir
MistressModuir

No Longer Registered
19:37:45 Sep 25 2010
Read 1,459 times

The funny things is, all I did was put my 2 cents in. It was my opinion nothing more, I did not ask to be belittled nor did I come here to be judged. I do not agree with the way you speak to and about women. Yes, women can do those things, I was not speaking about right now, I was talking about the farthest past. Yes I have read the history books and yes I know there were "Amazons" I was speaking more of the norm for that time. Amazons were not the norm and you know it. I have much more in my mind but did not want to waste my time putting it all in there. What's the point, I would only be Judged and put down by someone as usual. It seems this site is as they are all. No one can have an opinion without the harsh words of someone with a large ego in believing they "ARE" the right ones. This place is for opinions. For people to have intellegant conversation. None of the others here in this conversation was rude or mean. My opinion of Bi Polar and other disorders...yes people can have those dis orders but it does not make them insane or not together. I have met people with these disorders and they are just as smart and together as anyone else. Emotionally they feel more than most and have the capability to love or hate more so than anyone so I feel their just as worthy as anyone to feel as they do. Who are we to judge what is normal and what is not. Society is so bent on saying who is sane and who is crazy. Is it not the ones who are Vampire, or live like vampires that are called crazy? So why is it so hard for you to believe that things can possibly be different than what you see them as? You are no different than those outside of here that judge. I think I will take myself somewhere else and continue my search for a place where people are not so concerned with making others feel inadequate.



•  REPLY  •


FALSExCURE
FALSExCURE
Royal Sire (689)
Posts: 2,396
Honor: 96
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Midnight Symphony (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
20:15:16 Sep 25 2010
Read 1,457 times

On the contrary, this is not just a place for "opinions."

Intelligent people can speak their minds and include facts as well as opinions.

The way he spoke of or about women wasn't offensive at all. Or at least, no less offensive than what you spoke about men.

Preservation of life doesn't just fall to women and they aren't the "hierarchy" of preservation of life. We are all equally responsible for the preservation of life, no matter what time period you're speaking of.

As far as "ejaculation" and "giving birth" goes, I hear the argument between men and women all the time about who's more important.

The fact of the matter is, neither one is "more important" than the other. There can be no children without BOTH men AND women. Therefore, I believe that your opinion was based more on your gender and less on facts.

Your "opinion," came off a little "feminazi" and seemed quite rude. If that wasn't the intent fine but, that's the way it appeared to me.


As far as a search for a place where you can give such opinions and not be called out on it, good luck.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
23:10:51 Sep 25 2010
Read 1,439 times

MistressModuir makes a valid point.. methinks, women have been feared, for the reason she gave.

But, what Now? Now that there is no need for man, or woman??

Now we can create Life without womb, and with insemination... so what Now??

[Had to spell it right!]



•  REPLY  •


FALSExCURE
FALSExCURE
Royal Sire (689)
Posts: 2,396
Honor: 96
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Midnight Symphony (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
23:48:10 Sep 25 2010
Read 1,433 times

So, we don't need men or women to have children? Really, that's a valid point?

Hmmm...where do you suppose they got the sperm and the egg?



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
00:34:01 Sep 26 2010
Read 1,426 times

Exactly and well-stated Lord Zombie..;) ...and btw...I am a woman.... so please...take my comments from the feminine view, not a chauvenistic male one...Mistress.

As it is, I have no intention of belittling anyone,..however, I as a female of equal mind and intelligence to such gentlemen, herein this forum that I keep company with...(they know who they are)... I simply do not appreciate feminist assumptions derived from personal dilemma and thus turned into an equally feminist rebuke on gender differences against our male counterparts....nothing more..nothing less.

I've nothing against the greater passions of anyone bipolar or suffering from any other mental disease or process...I do however, do not see the comparative you would relate your own passions with the likes of Hitler and Vlad the Impaler, among others...who tortured, killed and maimed just as many women as they did men, children and old people...in the name of a higher justice, god or passionate zeal that they beheld... as their reasoning of solidarity in committing their crimes against humanity.

Whether they could ejaculate or not is as irrelevant to the fact that you would ascribe their madness akin to being the same powerful passions you also thus claim. In the same breath, you state your own power to control such drives and pleasures because... you are a woman?

That such maniacs as these men could "make the mistake" of "losing control of their thirst," but you cannot... because you are not able to ejaculate?...being a woman and thus far superior to them?....how can that be so, when women have a far greater capacity to achieve femine ejaculation and higher ecstasies through 9 other variations of orgasmic pleasures...
with or without a man?

If the dividing line between men and women is as you say, then I must disagree on that note. I would argue that the libations of phallic endeavors of men and the likewise unlimiting capacity of fully-developed women, in having their own secretory dominance as a sexual gender, is more highly evolved than to merely describe them as a physicality. Your reference as such does both men and women, of equal mind and body, a disservice by turning it into an illogical, gender-based power-play to placate your own sense of feminine worth.

As I recall, many women throughout history started wars and led nations from our ancient past to the present, therefore ascribing that to being a dominant trait of the male gender is not accurate as well. It is unfortunate that many societies and cultures succumb to a series of "dark ages" based entirely upon poor intelligence and education. Thus arises the need to control the masses by giving them something else to fear within themselves...fear of knowing their true potentials as free-thinking entities...spiritually, physically, sexually, sensually, mentally, intellectually, philosophically...the list goes on...

It is only my opinion, but women in general do themselves a diservice in trying to pass off their feminine power as a "replacement" for intelligence, wit and intuitive cunning...when the potentiating power is found within the superior strength of the heart and spirit...for either man or woman... this mitigates grace and structure to philosophy and perfect thought. It also contributes to a most engaging and interesting conversation between two people, irregardless of their gender identity or sexual preferences.

It is the division of both male and female I was pointing to in your narrative... more than anything, that I find untoward and rude to our male counterparts here. As was stated....women would not give birth without the semen of a man and man would neither beget anything without being born of a woman. It is a falsehood to allude to anything other than the fact that the feminine and the masculine should never have known a division between them..but instead should be as one being, in perfect harmony...one power to another...equally constrained and fitting jointly together.

Unfortunately, as long as there are those in our society, male or female, that would delve to continue their assertions that one or the other is more dominant, while another is submissive or "weaker" or "lesser"...one better than the other...there is likely to be only a handful of evolved genders (men, women, or hermaphrodites...take your pick) that will see each other with nothing more than the greatest of respect and dignity without slighting because of gender...much less race, creed, sexuality or cultural and religious beliefs.

I apologize if you misinterpret my earlier reply, but I am, as many intelligent conversationalists here have already expressed....hoping to see more interest from the inner Amazon in every woman here to share something more than just ill-informed opinions and laying claim to them as historical facts when they simply are not.

It is not a case of judgement or personal attack on whether or not one wants to believe they are a vampire or a werewolf, bipolar or a maniacal reincarnation of Adolf Hitler, it is simply...a plea...

"please..cut through the crap already."

To be or not to be...was that the question?



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
00:35:12 Sep 26 2010
Read 1,425 times

LordZombie - "If we're talking about real life vampires, no one is born addicted or even nursed on blood. So, what is the relevance in drinking blood?"


Well, as I would think apparent given my oft-expressed views on vampires as not historically sanguinary, I fully agree with your view and the question raised. Additionally, as I have occasionally quipped to those who so adamantly claim to be "real-life" vampires (i.e., sanguinary):

"Drinking a thimble-ful of blood makes one a blood-drinking vampire about as much as eating the sprig of parley on my plate makes me a vegetarian."



When any of these self-stylized "vampires" can evidence for us that they actually subsist on a diet of nothing but blood, then they can get away with calling themselves... "real-life" vampires. Until then... puh-lease!


- Upir'



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
01:38:07 Sep 26 2010
Read 1,418 times

MistressModuir,

I enjoyed your entry and it is obvious you have thought much about it. As you also find apparent throughout history, women seem to be held either in highest esteem or in lowest regard by the male powers-that-be through history... oft-times in constantly changing pendulum swings between the two. And I find this not just as evidenced throughout history in Society over periods of time, but also microcosmically as seen in both short and long-term individual relationships.

Why is this? What is the source?

I think that in the case of individual relationships, when carefully considered and examined these wild extremes of esteem given to females can largely be found to correspond to to things primarily: the man's sex drive and his own sexual self-esteem. If the man is "horny," he is quick and at times over-generous with his solicitudes toward the female he is involved with or to females in general. When he has had his orgasm du jour, however, he oft-times finds his desire for her gone and, thus, his esteem of her correspondingly diminished. As his "hunger" has been fed, he finds he is no longer as appreciative of the "food" that sated it. Thus, his esteem for the female likewise leaves him, as well. Thus... his own limited sex drive serves to have him shortchanging women true worth and, after providing what he most wants them for, they are of little worth.

Are things this cut and dried regarding men's estimation of women and what they value in the female gender? Of course not. Men certainly find value in women in many different areas beyond the sexual depending on the relationship and the personalities involved. Yet, few factors affect men (and women) more in their relationships with one another than the sexual component! And when sexually active male-female relationships are examined, this key foundational difficulty can be found pretty much universally.

Whether this attitude by men towards women is xpressed in emotion-founded terms such as "Love 'em and Leave 'em" or in the more graphic sexual cliche "Wham Bam, Thank you, Ma'am," yet in all such and many more... all speak to this same foundational sexual dysfunction.

And when viewed in Society in general throughout history, we can find that this same foundationally dysfunctional relationship exists pretty much worldwide where men and women are concerned.

And all of this has as its root cause the sudden cessation in the male of such wonderful romantic and sexual emotions and drives once orgasm is reached. Were men not limited by this mandatory "down-time" both emotionally and sexually following orgasm, his positive emotions both romantic and sexual would remain... just as they generally do in females.

And this "down-time" is scientifically called: the "Male Refractory Period" (MRP).

It is called "Male"... because women don't have this limitation built into their psycho-physiologies.

And this brings us to the second foundational factor in this dysfunctional situation between Males and Females: the Male's stereotypical lack of sexual self-esteem.

As men must wait following orgasm, during which time they usually lose their desire and theri... ummm... physical evidences of arousal, they quickly come to realize in their sexual relationships with females that... females don't HAVE to wait! And while males are so physically unable to ... continue, females are!

This greatly influences a man to ... feel bad about himself, sexually. And, over time, it can cause growing resentment and, given the male's naturally antagonistic and competitive nature, can eventually lead to very negative and even abusive reactions toward the female's plainly superior sexual capacity. We see the results of this every day in individual relationships where men abuse women for perceived slights to their male sexual ego.

And when viewed by Society at large, in which men have historically been the lawmakers and law-enforcers, we find this exact same male sexual insecurity resulting in horrific laws and abuses toward females and their sexuality.

This is the universal disparity between the male and female that is directly responsible for ALL of the abuses, the atrocities and the adoration-followed-by-resentment against women as perpetrated by men.


And yet... despite this fact that affects and limits and damages Human relationships as much anciently as today... yet no one... I mean NO ONE... will research the Male Refractory Period !!!

Today we know no more about what causes MRP in men than we knew thousands of years ago! To this day, not a single study, research project or scientific investigation has EVER been conducted to discover what causes MRP or how it might, thus, be overcome for men.

In fact.... most here probably have never even HEARD of the Male Refractory Period... the lid has been that screwed shut on the topic!

And yet... it is the foundational cause of ALL the misogyny in history and the continued "war of the sexes" that rages to this very day and shall for countless years to come.


(How do I know all this? Because, I am the only one who came forward and caused the one study to be conducted that documented that there exists a way OUT of this multi-millennial male sexual limitation that would finally free men and, thus, free Humankind to be truly EQUAL. Yet even after publication in a prestigious scientific journal of the one research study that recorded the sexual equivalent of breaking the sound barrier... it was ignored, swept under the rug and all funding frozen on future investigations. The true "Powers-that-Be" ... the same that have always targeted multiorgasmics of both genders throughout history ... did not wish the truth known and a possible solution found.)



- Upir'










•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
01:53:16 Sep 26 2010
Read 1,411 times

MistressModuir,

And finally... if I may... I would like to comment on your latest point that, perhaps, as "Vampire" means "feaster," that such applies to anyone who predatorily or passionately "feasts" on anything, I woudl like to point out that I find this most certainliy possible. However, I dont' know as I find it probable.

As we al have passions and appetites in all arenas imaginable (gstronomic, sexual, power and control, financial, materialistic, etc.) in which we can "feast," then it would seem the term "Vampire" would lose all true meaning were we all ... by simply throwing self-control and self-discipline to the wind... "Vampires" (feasters).

Additionally, in the very lands where the term originated, they very specifically described exactly what it was that the "Vampire" feasted on... and it was not food, money, power, or anything else... except sex.

In fact, as late as the 1950s, "vampire" reports in Eastern Europe were still about men pretending to be "Vampires" for one purpose only... to try to get gullible women to have SEX with them thinking they were actually having sex with a vampire. And why? Because throughout the actual countries and prior to the Hollywood invasions into the area... vampires were known not for being blood drinkers but for being "insatiable" (i.e., multiorgasmic) male lovers!


- Upir'







•  REPLY  •


FALSExCURE
FALSExCURE
Royal Sire (689)
Posts: 2,396
Honor: 96
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Midnight Symphony (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 17 years.
02:04:43 Sep 26 2010
Read 1,407 times

Upir,

I for one, thank you for enlightening the masses yet again. I totally agree with your assessment and thank you for pointing out what I have believed to be the "male" problem all along.

As far as "vampires" go, anyone who has a brain in their head would agree with your statement.



•  REPLY  •


NamaahFelenora
NamaahFelenora
Malignant Spirit (49)
Posts: 740
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Limbus Patrum (Coven) is a member of an Alliance

Member of Limbus Patrum (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
22:35:49 Sep 27 2010
Read 1,326 times

Mistress,

Everywhere you go in life, you will have an opinion and you will share it. And others will have their own opinions and they will share it. The great thing about the sharing of opinions is they are not facts. Just opinions. And opinions are debated. When someone disagrees with your opinion and shares their opinion with you, it is not a personal attack against you ( If it is, then somewhere down the line someone misread something). But all in all, debate is healthy in all conversations as it let's us explore each others thoughts.

It is really hard to know when someone is judging you in a forum especially when they are just words on a screen and there is no tone to be heard. Now if I were to say to someone on here, "I THINK YOU ARE A HORRIBLE MOTHER BECAUSE OF..." you could conclude by my capital letters that I am screaming and pissed off and that I am negatively judging you by voicing my, 'loud' opinion.

I am not judging anyone. I just poke.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
23:25:14 Sep 27 2010
Read 1,321 times

.. which is as valid as an opinion. I just loathe [right word] those who shove an opinions down someones neck, with no facts to back up what they espouse, or they poo-poo anyone who disbelieves them.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
23:35:30 Sep 27 2010
Read 1,319 times

Which is why Opinions need support. many attempt to pass off ideology, and dogma (often very skewed at that)
as personal opinion, a vary common practice by people who are seek to self promote themselves vicariously through the irrational ideals of others.

Anyone can claim to be anything, but when it comes down to it "Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence."

Lacking such evidence a source that to some degree substantiates the claim is preferred for posterity.

When I read back to the Snack Oil Sales Tours they had to use slick tricks to bam boo zal folk into accepting outrageous Claims, and wonders abound, and people still spoke out against them!

Now we got people who say "We must keep, and open mind." even when the claims become more outrageous, with less support offered. Shame on the naive who would pass such a disposition onto coming generations, in the guise of tolerance.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
03:03:44 Sep 28 2010
Read 1,313 times

So dab,why is it that everytime questions get tough or there is a request for any evidence at all,the one's who make these claims always dissapear? Do you feel that maybe we get too hard on them?



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
03:42:10 Sep 28 2010
Read 1,309 times

Oceanne,

Great question! My own experience here on VR is that in almost all cases, as they have nothing by which to back up their claims, the very request for evidence, itself, is misinterpreted as a personal attack and they become hurt and offended... and either respond by lashing out in ad hominem attacks or try to vilify the questioner as being disrespectful of their beliefs and/or claims.

(and... btw... thank you so much Angelus, Oceanne and LordZombie, again, for such too-kind words!)


- Upir'



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
03:50:58 Sep 28 2010
Read 1,308 times

I'll take a stab at that...;) I have found in my own observations of working with the public, that there are people who truly have a need to be reckognized. Often, it is due to a less than ideal situation at home, one where no one listens...no one pays attention...or no one cares.

The use of a public internet forum as open to various ideologies and beliefs such as VR, opens and prepares the stage for creating a vicarious life, an alter ego that allows them to move beyond what is in their real life. Pompous self-importance and putting on airs is in reality a replacement to hide poor self-esteem and perhaps even a deeper amount of other emotional and psychological problems that can delve into roots found in some form of abuse.

As you may notice in generic replies, defense of that need to be believed regardless of foundational facts are often inclusive of phrases and words such as: "judgemental, I'll be put down like everyone else does, I don't like what you say about...who cares?" These and so many others are certain tells in the human psychology of past traumas and abuses, whether socially, physically, sexually, emotionally, or all of the above.

It is the simple human drive for acknowledgement that causes our flights of fancy to pose the question of "what if." It is decidedly unfortunate however, that so many do not take the time to simply listen to people they are around each day..or take notice....just to pass on a smile or even a hug when it looks like someone really needs it.

To be faced with the possibility of rejection without having gone forward to learn from mistakes, folks most often turn away and stay muddled in their continued self-pity and build up inside with bitterness and jaded emotions. If one is to face their failures, their own misleadings and correct the error of their mistakes no matter how trivial, the human heart has a greater veracity for spiritual and emotional growth and a step towards realizing that the best person to believe in you...is you.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
00:14:56 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,285 times

your last post was clipped I suspect accidently..

in the to be or not to be thread.

Adding to what silverhawk stated so well.

"So dab,why is it that everytime questions get tough or there is a request for any evidence at all,the one's who make these claims always dissapear? Do you feel that maybe we get too hard on them?"

Response..

Individuals still want to pretend, and play make believe, well past the age that they are led to believe (often by strict parents, or gaurdieans) that to pretend, and make believe is a waste of time, and shows immaturity.

So it is reflex perhaps to veil their make believe, and creative imagining (speculation) as Gospel truth, and such individuals are catered to, and enabled sad as it is.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
03:18:09 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,276 times

Thank you for that insight Dab..I am wondering also,why it is that those very people claim that everyone else is a poser.Any more thoughts on that?I mean some seem..very sincear when they tell us these things.Do you feel they might actually believe it theirselves?I have noticed that many of the Masqerade crowd basically live the game..you find this true also?



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
16:11:26 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,263 times

howabout the indiviual is so full of self, they fail to see a world outsdie that small one they have in their own head??



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
16:27:39 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,260 times

That happens to alot of peeps though Angelus,even if they arent full of self.I think it is a tendancy for most to pretty much focus on their immediate surroundings and life.I believe that is pretty much natural.Especially if they have never been anywhere.But the phenomenon of living these Vampire or D and D type games as if it were real life intrigues me.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
18:06:33 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,254 times

It would also be interesting to hear more about the trackers if anyone cares to elaborate.Maybe some imput as to why any self proclaimed Vampire would expose theirself on a vampire site if trackers were indeed a danger to their well being.
Again,thanks to all for your imput and making this a great thread.!



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
19:41:06 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,247 times

Piety is not limited to religion. Political Activist, Even AmWay Representatives are prone to projecting a More-Then-Thou Mentality.

It is not the ideology that they are promoting anymore at that point it is themselves.

In some cases there is also the "Lets see how many people I can dupe with my pitch" types, who don't like people interfering with their potential pool of marks (aka suckers).


One example is a person on this site, who goes so far as to use a secondary profile to churn the post of their other profile, as if they agree with, an realized how convincing the post was. I suggest that such behavior is indicative of a psychosis, or mental complex, developed by intense denial, and delusions ingrained by enablers.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
19:45:42 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,245 times

Another factor is that some shield their numerous social inadequacies behind such ideologies, and adopt fringe dogma that is hardly acceptable to moderate believers of same fringe ideals/beliefs. Doing so allows them to deny that people are avoiding them, or maintaining shallow commitments to because they are socially unadaptive, but in their glossed over thinking it is because their beliefs are to "heavy", or "Deep" for others to grasp, and people cannot handle" the truth", and except them for who, or what they project/claim to be.



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
19:47:55 Sep 29 2010
Read 1,244 times

I would not and do not presume to answer for others' own perceptions and misconceptions. The fact is that, thankfully, we no longer live in an age of superstition when the Church used all such beliefs and superstitions in first cementing and then perpetuating its own bloodlust for power and control over the gullible wretched masses it helped so fervently and successfully to create across this planet. Thankfully, the Age of Enlightenment finally broke through the black mists of superstition and the fear all such engender, and began to dispel the repressive blackness such had caused for over a millennia in the West. Ignorance masquerading as "faith" was no longer as successfully preached from the pulpit and Humanity again began to recognize and slowly regain its intelligence and self-esteem, once more, as knowledge and science grew.

Of course, by the time full recovery had largely occurred (19th Century, on), hundreds of thousands of those condemned, tortured and slaughtered as "vampires" and "witches" had already taken place. And those here called "trackers" were, of course, largely to blame as the willing agents of the Church that sponsored such officially executed campaigns of terror and murder. Today, things are different and these "trackers" work far more subtlely, for the most part.

As by the end of the 19th Century, such wholesale slaughter was becoming less and less able to be ... plausibly denied, such "vampire" and "witch" hunts resulting in official prosecution and state-sponsored murder were no longer possible. Additionally, as by this time so few "vampires" remained in the world, neither were they deemed necessary. Nor was it likely that those who were "vampires" in the world even knew who they actually were and from what bloodline they came! As the "Vampire" legend had by this time been so twisted from its historical origins as to be unidentifiable to the general public, anyone actually of the Rephaimic ("Fallen Angel") bloodline born with the singular "Dark Gift" as defined throughout the actual original "Vampire" accounts would have no knowledge of what or why they possessed such true sensual and emotional equality with females. Thus, if they lived and died... and did not rock the boat by either openly exhibiting such capacity so as to come to the public notice of the world or in bringing up MRP and pointing out publicly enough its import to male/female happiness and the stonewalling against any investigation of same... the "trackers" and those who today employ them, couldn't care less. So long as they live and die in obscurity, the "Dark Gift" of their bloodline revealed only to their wife or lovers, so what?

Of course should they use their intelligence to investigate their uniqueness and then dare to proclaim what they have discovered publicly enough... well, therein lies the crux (no pun) of the matter, now doesn't it? In my case, at least, better the truth come out than remain locked away for who knows how many more centuries and Humankind remain clueless to our true potentials as the true "Powers-that-Be" continue to reign supreme in perpetuating a world motivated most by forces, commodities and perceived "needs" those same Powers have manipulated and controlled since the true "Fall of Man."


- Upir'





•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
13:56:59 Sep 30 2010
Read 1,225 times

I am not sure about anyone else,but I have learned quite a bit from this thread so far.Again,thank you for your wonderful imput!
Now,I am wondering if anyone has heard of the Scimitar Wars?



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
14:01:26 Sep 30 2010
Read 1,223 times

I have looked around a little but have only found reff to Star trek stuff.Now,evidently some who claim to be real vampires are talking of this war as if it were real.
Any and all vampires here at VR! PLEASE shed some light on these so called wars that no one has heard anything about?



•  REPLY  •


FallenStar
FallenStar

No Longer Registered
21:13:46 Sep 30 2010
Read 1,214 times

Wars, mmm I am not sure this will help but otherkin are quite terratorial and we tend to sense one anothers presence. Having traveled the world twice I often got a second look or stared at in a bar, this is"I know who you are what are you doing here?" or if they move toward you its "get out."If you talk then you are standing ground, did that twice...mmm that's dodgy.
Now the cynics will put this down to paranoia so let me be more specific.I went to Melbourne to see Denneteth and Aracon and on arrival I hit the town.Wandering around at night I did not realise there was quite an active other kin community.I was eating steak outside a restaurant one night when 3 Bikers with dark glasses passed by. (I guess my dark glasses helped flag me) One of the Bikers saw me and slowed down and stared at me blocking the street. I tried to ignore him but he swung the bike around and parked nearby and his mates followed suit. They were not wearing colours which means they may kill. I left out the back.
Whist in Thailand I got off a boat in the middle of nowhere and was followed by a European man with blacked out punkie style goggles. I tried to shake him but he followed me down back streets, I lost him for a day but his freinds caught up with me. I think if I had been travelling with friends there would have been words and we are not well known for our cool tempers.
I know a Wolf-biker in London who cut up someone with an axe, he wanted to meet me, its kinda wary curosity but wars are rare.Most I know are pretty smart.Hope this helps, others here know more but they'll never talk, it's a gang thing.Yawns.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
21:21:39 Sep 30 2010
Read 1,211 times

Thank for the answer AN. And upon reading it,I cannot help but wonder why,if "otherkin" are so rare and far between,why is it that they would be so..hostile toward one another? Terrritorial is one thing but when taken to the extreme that has been implied,what good would that do for the survival of the species? so to speak.



•  REPLY  •


FallenStar
FallenStar

No Longer Registered
22:07:53 Sep 30 2010
Read 1,207 times

Mmm its an animal thing, you know like Black widows, get on mate then she eats him.Just in our nature:( I guess thats why there are not so many, you can see how trusting those in the know are, probably born out of bitter experience.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:36:07 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,199 times

Alternatively ~ and, I mean no disrespect, they're just typical Austratian macho posturing twits.. ?

[[I'm not saying we don't have our own, we do.. heck, that's why one has to adopt the mask, to ealk amongst them.]]



•  REPLY  •


ZEV
ZEV

No Longer Registered
01:25:30 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,193 times

id rather be a lycan and thats what i am . no offense



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
01:53:52 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,190 times

What leads you to believe that REV?



•  REPLY  •


ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

No Longer Registered
06:13:54 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,183 times

Angelus the gangs do differ; some have members, some just know about us. I was out walking the dogs in Seattle and about 30 Bikers passed, slowed down then saluted us.
You just never know.
We were dressed as normal folk so how they know, mmm that still leaves me guessing. We laughed saying"Is it that obvious, I thought we were fitting in"
Another example; went to a Goth shop a pale guy served us with dark glasses " You guys alright? going to the V.Ball?"....Godamit, we were in trainers, jeans and a white T shirts.It'snot like we were hanging at the Mercury; They just pick up the vibe. In general it doesn't pay to stand out and many who do are just food.



•  REPLY  •


ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

No Longer Registered
06:21:06 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,182 times

I mean Posers~Bows and leaves~



•  REPLY  •


VR System
VR System

No Longer Registered
06:21:06 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,182 times

This thread has been automatically closed for length.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
12:40:41 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,175 times

So AN,have you ever crossed paths with the Trackers?



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
17:47:16 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,160 times

GreenKnight,
I have noticed that almost always self proclaimed Vampires state that others who do the same are posers.why do you feel this is so?



•  REPLY  •


ContessaIsabella
ContessaIsabella

No Longer Registered
18:05:12 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,155 times

Well you know the dark moody Goth types, mostly they are just depressed, they are easily spotted;They do not have a flash in the eye, many just like the notion, some stumble onto something real and it has the strangest effect. They actually get happy! Now there's a psycho study worth doing.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
18:36:06 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,149 times

Some arent goth type though.and no matter what side of the coin or how they dress..depressed or not,they always claim others are posers.Actually,the only one who hasnt bolted and has come up with ANY evidence to back up their version of Vampire is Upir.Not one other person here has managed to do that.Not one.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
18:48:00 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,145 times

.. erm, statin the obvious: could there be a correlation, between the poseurs and your last remark lass??



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
19:00:02 Oct 01 2010
Read 1,139 times

Forgive me Angelus,I dont quite understand what you are saying.Please clairify?



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
14:52:56 Oct 02 2010
Read 1,121 times

.. there in an inate arrogance that come over with some.
.. an when some write of 'the Otherkin', it is these that I see, as I read their words.

..then, there are the inward one's, posing, to maintain asense of self, albeit a mask, with or without a peer group...



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
01:32:01 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,110 times

.. deary me, silence?
.. after sayin that, I expected feedback!

"Shucks!"



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
03:55:54 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,104 times

I don't think it has anything to do with whether one is gothic or not...quite the contrary...I was reading something upon that notion today...the reasonable aspects of differences in people's perceptions of the self or id...whether one considers themselves "otherkin" or "vampire" or anything other than "normal/mundane"...and I found it interesting...perhaps you will too...:)

This is quoted from The Spiritual Anatomy of Emotion, How Feelings Link the Brain, the Body, and the Sixth Sense by: Michael A. Jawer with Marc S. Micozzi, M.D., Ph.D.

"Kreskin and Extremely Sensitive Perception" (pgs. 280-281)

"Reading Grandin, I was reminded of a quite different sort of person: the Amazing Kreskin. Billed as a mind reader, Kreskin himself claims nothing of the sort. What he does maintain is that he possesses ESP-defined by him as "extremely sensitive perception." He is convinced that the more that is learned about anomolous talents, the less anomolous they will turn out to be. This obiviously differs from the standard notion of ESP as "extra" sensory. Let us recall here that author Guy Murchie suggested that human beings might have as many as thirty-two senses, which he organized into five major groupings (the radiation senses, the feeling senses, the chemical senses, the mental senses, and the spiritual senses). So, what Kreskin taps into is probably not extrasensory in point of fact, but merely beyond what we take our presumptive five senses to encompass.

"In his act, Kreskin demonstrates a talent similiar to what is commonly referred to as telepathy or clairvoyance. Even offstage, he will sometimes guess something correctly out of the blue, not knowing himself how or why. These instances are often trivial, like stating what someone is going to say before he or she says it. On one memorable occasion, however, Kreskin stopped a performance short because he was convinced that a woman in the audience with whom he'd interacted during the show was planning to commit suicide. "I had sensed it," he relates, "almost the way one feels sick to one's stomach, an actual, physical sensation of queasiness that was immediately and consciously associated in my mind with death."

"Kreskin is interested in the paranoramal (as are many accomplished magicians). This interest has been lifelong because, from childhood, he clearly possessed certain remarkable abilities. In his twenties and thirties, he served as a medical intuitive to an established physician, and the anthropologist Margaret Mead later suggested that "sensitive" was an apt description of him. Thus, Kreskin always wondered how his particular aptitudes relate to standard notions of the psychic. He has become convinced that what he's honed to a fine art-and a handsome living-is the propensity to "recognize physical characteristics that telegraph the thought that produced them." But, he adds "there's a great deal more to extremely sensitive perception, although I don't know what, precisely."

"In this book, I am proposing that what still confounds Kreskin-indeed, what puzzles all true sensitives, the people close to them, and the people who study them-can best be explored through the lens of feeling. Inborn sensory differences (thin boundaries, sensory defensiveness, overexcitabilities, call them what you will) clearly begin to explain how some individuals perceive life so differently from those around them. Still other personality constructs (high transliminality, absorption, fantasy-proneness) apply as we seek to explain certain people's strong interest in, and pull toward, the anomolous. But I suspect the brain/body dynamics of feeling represent the missing piece in this puzzle.

"By directly quesitoning people who are highly sensitive, we have a down-to-earth way of beginning to fathom those lessons. In the process, we stand to learn much more about the nature of perception, the nature of cognition, and how we as human beings impinge on-and interact with - our environment. The emotional nature of our surroundings is an overlooked fundamental of our existence."

Essentially, the extensions of sensitive awareness through our individual perceptions can be inwardly linked through our emotional being...expanding our relationships beyond the mundane but even unto the Divine as each person may experience a heightening of one sensory form or another.

Emotional health in individuals varies...and highly dependent upon other aptitudes inherently applied to work through trauma or other life experiences. Emotion is related to the heart...the heart related to the brain and to the physical body.

Herein, I quote from another book of interest, Epilepsy: A New Approach by Adrienne Richard and Joel Reiter, M.D.

"There is considerable evidence that stress and its consequent physical and psychological tensions depress the immune system's functioning, making illness and disease more likely.
"Acknowledging that a person's mind-set affects illness or wellnes is difficult for biomedical practitioners to accept. Nonetheless, departments of behavioral medicine have sprung up in medical schools around the country, and doctors trained in family medicine try to take a broader, more biophsychosocial, approach. Puzzling over my symptoms one day, my primary physician said to me, "You aren't your lab tests. They only tell part of the story."
Each of us has a range of functioning from optimum to minimum with occasional peaks of experience exceeding our usual performance and occasional bursts of negativity or worse. We need to work toward keeping ourselves at the upward end of this mental and physical scale. As Dr. Sacks states in The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, "A disease is never a mere loss or excess--there is always a reaction, on the part of the affected individual, to restore, to replace, to compensate for and preserve (his or her) identity. We need to make sure that what we do in response to epilepsy is positive and ensures our wholeness in the best possible way."

What is it I am saying here then?...How or why do so many poseurs...or people rather...convince or try to convince others of their "supernatural" abilities?...as it is surely not being something other than human...but indicating that certainly there are those of us in the crowd here and elsewhere that have developed extremely sensitive perceptions. These perceptions are innate while others are handed down to us through literature, ancient writings, archeological and scientific studies...legends and mythos...they are a part of our social identity and in that concept, the individual realizes their own correlation to these variable aspects they find within the seat of their souls...knowing who and what they are deep within their hearts.

It is evident in the discovery of the human genome..that we are a species of greater diversity than what we see upon the surface. Our inner quality of being is multi-dimensional and beyond the physicality of the body, the soul, and the spirit...but capturing all at once every aspect of that divine quality of the cosmos within us all....but in seeking what is Divine, we forget that which makes us "whole"....the beating of the heart.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
04:37:14 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,101 times

Basically what any rational person would already know, nothing mystical about it. It is a physiological talent, psyche, more them psychic.

add to that the stage ability, and mental abilities of the mentalist, and one gains perspective of the talent.

Which leaves a rational person to ask, of all the people online who declare themselves possess mystic "gifts" how many are just putting up a fancy front.



•  REPLY  •


FallenStar
FallenStar

No Longer Registered
07:38:02 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,095 times

Oceanne that is what I am saying they are very, very different, they give off the whole "I've given up vibe" whereas the predator does not. Often they do not want to be in this mundane realm until they see something that has broken out, gone beyond that point, then they're like Holy crap, life beyond death, happy as Larry, who ever Larry was, not that I am a predator, I just know a few.What amazes me is researchers find the whole concept so difficult? just go and hang out with some otherkin here who you have befriended.If you get to Sire without accomplishing this then ....Oh Dude! No comment.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
14:18:41 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,084 times

Silverhawk.. your mention of the ID is what made me smile goodstyle.. yes I know of it.. once illustrated it to a tutor, who thought she knew more than me.. that was a giggle.

It is very much pertinent, as you intimate, to this strand of this thread...

**Grins**

ta!



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
15:25:28 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,081 times

haha...;) so glad you liked it Angelus...*smiling..oh yes..:)

As for the debate of differences here...what I wish to express in sharing these excerpts is that neuro-science is discovering more about the human species faster than it can keep up. The relevance of other-kin as well as various other differences in individuals is inherent upon their genetic make-up and their development.

What today's modern neuroscience puts light upon in the fellowship between the mind, the emotions, and the make-up or our personalities and quirks (the inner ego/id) is reminiscent of the Archangle Michael's comments in the Dead Seas Scrolls when he comments to God regarding Azazel's tampering with the "many species of humans."

The ideal that there are individuals with significantly developed senses and attributes other than what our Western world percieves as "normal" is an ancient one that continues to bubble up simply due to observation through out senses....whether they are highly sensitive or not....as a case in point, I am a highly sensitive individual.

Westernized, medical science from just 10 years ago, would have one believe that it is due to temporal lobe epilepsy that I have visions, dreams, or hearing spiritual voices as an illusion created by my seizure activity. However, through experience and observation of the culmination of such precognitive and extra-sensory information divulged to me in a manner not considered "normal"...I find that deduction wanting and contrary to my personal experience.

The difference between myself and one who makes a professional living using these talents in sensitivity, is that I also realize the ease in which pride can puff itself up and the inner id/ego can become swollen and self-absorbed in thinking of themselves as powerful and "all-knowing." I know I am different than most "normal" folks in how I percieve the world around me, but it doesn't make me any better than they are.

Here's another article that I think perhaps expresses this so well...again from The Spiritual Anatomy of Emotion:

Inborn Sensory Differences:

"No two people live in the same sensory world," observes Paul Breslin, a neuroscientist at the Monell Chemical Senses Center in Philadelphia. "The world you see, the food you taste, the odors you smell--all are perceived in a way unique to you." What tastes bitter to one person, for instance, another person may find exquisitely appealing. The differences are not just qualitative. Testing at the Monell Center has disclosed that a bitter chemical known as phenyltheocarbamide (PTC) can be tasted by some individuals at the vanishinly small concentration of 18 parts per billion. In contrast, if the concentration is high enough, say, 360 parts per million--everone can taste it. This finding has its analogue in the realm of scent, where some people with cystic fibrosis can detect certain smells at levels ten thousand times weaker than the norm.

"Breslin and his fellow researchers are beginning to link such differences to our genetic inheritance. Taste, smell, and color perception have been found to vary according to the type, quantity, and configuration of individual's sensory receptors. In many cases, the differences are huge. Take color blindness, a condition that occurs in approximately 8 percent of the population, mostly men. This is obviously a sensory deficit. On the other hand, some women possess an enhanced color vision, with the ability to distiguish between what, to the rest of us, seem identical shades of green. (Men, such as myself, may never fully grasp the concept of magenta, alas.) Thresholds of pain may also owe to genetic differences, a subject receiving increased scrutiny.

"The implications of this research are profound. When one considers that virtually everything we know about ourselves and the world based on information obtained through the senses, the fact that objective differences exist in people's sensory abilities suggests that our consensus reality may encompass a far wider spectrum than previously appreciated. Not only are we as individuals the product of our senses, but the way we experience facets of our own existence may differ meaningfully from that of our fellows."


I don't think I could say this any better...;)



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
15:39:21 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,078 times

Silverhawk,

Don't you mean you couldn't say it any... bitter?

Sorry.... bad joke. hehehe

Of course, your assessment is a wonderful one and shows that at least on some sensory levels, Reality is, indeed, relative. Makes one wonder about a lot of things, as "Mouse" says in "The Matrix."

Given that it is only through our senses that we perceive reality, Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" finds itself just as profoundly relevant today as it did over 2500 years ago!


- Upir'



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
23:36:31 Oct 03 2010
Read 1,071 times

Good reading SilverH,

Thank you. Because the fringe envelope pushers are out simply to astonish, and leave every little tingle they get as an eternal mysterious ability, even as biology, behavior science, and neuroscience, make ground.
I personally see the very practice detectives use, to eb a phenomenal working model of what is mentioned in this article. Coupled with deductive reasoning, no mystic
vibe required.

It is a relief also to see the regression of Pseudoscience, that once catered to Fringe radicals, that faction of pious individuals.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:32:47 Oct 04 2010
Read 1,064 times

.. meanwhile, I'm just jacked of that link of Upir's didn't work; 'URL not found on this server'.. bah!



•  REPLY  •


Silverhawk
Silverhawk
Ophidian (66)
Posts: 307
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Member of Legion (Coven)
Vampire Rave member for 16 years.
00:56:38 Oct 04 2010
Read 1,060 times

Thanks Dabbler...:)

Here's your link Angelus!...^^

http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/allegory.html



•  REPLY  •


NephthysRising
NephthysRising

No Longer Registered
14:14:24 Oct 04 2010
Read 1,043 times

I swore I was going to stay out of Forums but since I was asked, I guess I could break my own rule this once...

-One,can a person be turned? If so,what does it take?

If this could be done, it would have to be something that could alter one's DNA, through some type of blood transference, or at least some form energetically.

I've even had a guy years ago to say..."A human goes through 3 gifts when the blood is shared with a human by vampire. He listed those 3 things to me, and says that if i asked someone claiming to be a vampire the question and they didn't answer it accordingly, they were never a real vampire to begin with.

*That doesn't mean i believed the guy*

-Two,What is 'The war" Between vampires and the wolves?

This type scenerio came to me before Underworld and Twilight movies.

I met a person online named Jake whom claimed to be a Lycanthrope (lycan). He said that he and his father were going to "Elysium", some place in Transylvania to prepare for a war. He also said that vampires and lycans could NOT speak to one another, however I did get inbetween a conversation with a "vampire" and the "lycan" and apparently they understood each other through whatever language it was. It was ok if i was talking for them (or through the hooman) lol

*That doesn't mean i believed those 2 either but it was entertaining to me either way*

-Three,what is The ice fang massacre?
I've never heard of this type of vampire war, however i was told of the "Scimitar Wars" by the same guy that explained the shared blood explanation.

-Four,who are The trackers? What they truly are, what they do, why they do it?
I don't know about the trackers however I was also told that there are people whom can be traced or tracked by their "energy signatures". Some "vamps" have this ability to remember say....a past love or companion or are drawn and attracted by ones whom have great or familiar signature or specific energy traces.

*Is this true? I wouldn't know*

Five,what is the council? The government?
Can't help you there because I haven't been told of anything about it.

That's pretty much all I know of, which sounds pretty similiar to things i've been told at least....8 years ago. :)



•  REPLY  •


UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
16:18:15 Oct 04 2010
Read 1,038 times

I don't know what happened to the link I provided for Platos' "Allegory of the Cave," but just as well as I have found a couple great youtube video links, instead. As I don't know how to embed them here (I tried the "copy embed html" and pasted it once, but for whatever reason, that also didn't work):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Mv1kiqo4s&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F7GhASOdM


- Upir'



•  REPLY  •


NephthysRising
NephthysRising

No Longer Registered
21:48:31 Oct 04 2010
Read 1,028 times

Thanks for sharing those links Upir. I enjoyed watching those and says a lot about Plato's viewpoint which I can respect him for as well.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
23:05:46 Oct 04 2010
Read 1,025 times

I agree,and thank everyone for your participation in this thread.:D Very informative.



•  REPLY  •


Angelus
Angelus
Premiere Sire (129)
Posts: 1,988
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
00:40:05 Oct 05 2010
Read 1,019 times

Silverhawk, Upir.. I thank you both.



•  REPLY  •


dabbler
dabbler
Venerable Sire (130)
Posts: 11,418
Honor: 0
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
00:45:36 Oct 05 2010
Read 1,014 times

I find this thread to be informative for what is not presented, as well as what is presented.



•  REPLY  •


Oceanne
Oceanne
Noble Sire (160)
Posts: 4,490
Honor: 11
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
10:26:52 Oct 05 2010
Read 1,002 times

You better believe it Dab.What hasnt been said,said alot.



•  REPLY  •


VR System
VR System

No Longer Registered
10:26:52 Oct 05 2010
Read 1,002 times

This thread has been automatically closed for length.



•  REPLY  •



• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Oct 05 2010  •

•  General Discussion Home  •   Forums Home  •

COMPANY
REQUEST HELP
CONTACT US
SITEMAP
REPORT A BUG
UPDATES
LEGAL
TERMS OF SERVICE
PRIVACY POLICY
DMCA POLICY
REAL VAMPIRES LOVE VAMPIRE RAVE
© 2004 - 2026 Vampire Rave
All Rights Reserved.
Vampire Rave is a member of 
Page generated in 1.1258 seconds.
X
Username:

Password:
I agree to Vampire Rave's Privacy Policy.
I agree to Vampire Rave's Terms of Service.
I agree to Vampire Rave's DMCA Policy.
I agree to Vampire Rave's use of Cookies.
•  SIGN UP •  GET PASSWORD •  GET USERNAME  •
X