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Recently I have finsihed reading all the books by the author Simon, he published the Necronomicon, the Book of Dead Names, Gates of the Necronomicon, The Necronomicon Spellbook and Papal Magic. All of which lead one in a circular loop of discourse from the ancients to philosophical constructs. In this there are methods to vampirism, and it would seem that the ancient cultures having similiar methods attempted the same sort of thing.

To open up themselves to the unseen world, to become a direct link with the gods. To those who have read such books, and to those who have biased opnions on such paths they follow, have you ever noticed such things become corrupted when not viewed from their beginings?

All the witches, wiccans, Chaos mages and all manner of magicians that have been spawned in the west through different castes, why do we isolate these en mass, and not blend them to form a unifying system by which we can assend through the gates, living as a unified subculture despite the rebelious nature that such pathworking entails?

think that just like favorite foods and music types and religions cant just be one there are millions of people here on earth just one thought wont make everyone happy too many view points and set ways that the person follows

fare play to him

i dont think we can combine all that into one unified topic because everyone is so different. and beliefs are so different. any religion or group of people cant really get it together like u suggest, though the world would be so much better if it could be done.

i think that many people take their own views too seriously and you cant combine something like that with someone else's views.

(i apologize i feel like I'm talking in circles maybe because i don't really understand the question) but take Christianity. if we stuck to the roots of that... which in essence it was theoretically a good idea to start this religion. but look how everyone took it out of control. and now, none of it means anything. i feel the same would happen with magicks or any other culture, we as humans dont have the capacity to accept others views. (well some of us do but not all, and its the "not all" that are running our country, and causing trouble. )

They are all bonded together in chaos magic …. You take it all and then some and bind n break and analyze till some thing works or you lose your soul lol

Nothing wrong with following dogmas and paths. Some workings need to be followed strictly.
Some need order.
I personally thing everything has something but not the true answers

they are all bond like food on a buffet, but cannot all be blend together, unless you like chocoalt cake blend mixt with rosebeef and gravy or mash patatoes. Higly doubt its a good mixt, but they all can be link, just not blended

Because of free thinking and individualism. As history repeats itself.

You would of thought and analogy if you think about it lol
The delights of carrot cake who would of thought veg n cake made such a delight ….. mind you broccoli and cake … makes you shudder and does you good….

Chaos is the same, once one has traveled a couple of paths one notices the pattern of it all and it’s beautifully hypnotic chaos

I suppose Chaos magick is the ultimate in
metaphysical melting pots....

But then, if everyone stays in their respective places then there is no forum where they can mix together in an inteligent manner. Thus nothing is shared. Its not going to happen one day, unless people take the steps to start working for something like that yesterday.

for change to happen there has to be the willingness to change as well

People need different things at different times.

I have read ome of Simon's work myself. And tend to agree with infernalmage. If we were all to sacrifice our individuality, even for just a short amount of time, the things we could accomplish would be phenomenal in comparison to what we, as individuals, can accomplish.

I also agree with infernalmage where he says that chaos magick seems to be the metaphysical melting pot.

Chaos magick is the art of using one's own will to create something out of the raw powers of magick and chaos. In essence, we are using our will to inject some order into the powers of chaos to create a desired effect.

In this, if we decided to take hold of any wiccan/pagan ritual, strip it down to the bare elements (what the desired outcome should be for the ritual/spell) and simply use our own will to create the outcome, then we are indeed practising chaos magick, yet many would say that we are also disrespecting the ways of the pagan/wiccan via bastardisation.

I do not actually see how we could be disrespecting another form of witchcraft (or indeed any metaphysical art form) if we merely remove all the materialistic elements and use our own willpower to create the desired effect. I have found this method extremely successful in the years since practising chaos magick, and have very few faliures since finally mastering chaos magick.

Menerfecious.

I think people are all different, and they are not going to work together to do anything i personally think that each should do what they want and not try to unite...

If any have read carlos castenada, he has fantastic beliefs in the path to enlightenment and spiritualiy

I for one would find it very difficult if not well-nigh impossible, to sacrifice my individuality for the sake of attaining cohesiveness with a whole.

If we had a culture which encouraged group mindedness and the importance of the group over the individual, it might be more possible. However, being raised as free thinking, free willed humans means that this would have a pretty much impossible chance of ever happening.

That doesn't mean it's such a bad thing, however. It is the individualness and varying styles of magic, etc, that add to it's beauty. Conformity for the sake of furtherment is not necessarily a good thing.

The unifying context of magick, would of course be only the superfical context that everyone who practices magick ceases the endless back biting and in fighting. There are far to few of us to carry on like the christians who have repressed us and our culture for the last 2000 years.

I'm reasonably sure that if everyone ceases the back stabbing and in fighting, it heralds the end of the world ;)

The strength of the movement is in it's individuality. This is my opinion anyway.

It's asking a bunch of non-conformists to conform. While nice in principle, the sheer logistics of co-ordinating such a thing boggle the mind. Not to mention competing towering egos (because let's face it there are a hell of a lot of those in this line).

That sounds like a good read. I have got to see if my local library has this.

I would just like to say that if a large number of people were to unite with a common goal....i do not think it would matter what method each person used to create the goal, only that we are all trying to achieve the same ting.

For example.....

Say that 25 people all wanted to do something about the growing weather problems magickally. Would they all have to use the same magicks/spells/rituals?

I think not, i believe that as the goal is the same, it would not matter who in this hyperthetical group did what. A wiccan coven of 5 could perform one spell, and yet other magick users could actually cast a completely different spell as long as it had the same purpose.

Therefore the 25 people would hyperthetically be joining to create the same thing and would in essence be acting as a body of people with very little individuality. Yet at the same time the smaller groups would actually be acting individually.

I hope this does not confuse anyone, as I have tried to explain this in the simplest possible way.

Mener

very intersting info...

menerfecious

Isn't that what people have been doing for generations....what some call magic, others call prayer.

Caravell,

What I think your imput on this idea is a valid notion. I agree, that it would be an interesting turn of events, to see such people working for a common goal, uniting the different systems.

Regardless of people using prayer or spellwork to achieve a result. The types of energy being raised are drastically different. Therefore it would be of more use to see people who practice different arts coming together for a common goal. Such as the story of the English coven working to keep Hitler from Landing.

Wow thats a lot of reading.Have you gained insite or more knowledge then you already had? I do not think personally that all that he is written is actual truth but none the less good reading.Wich I have read the book of the dead about 13 years ago because i saw the movie army of darkness :) j/k because
I heard that only so many orignal copies were floating around and had to see what was the big fuss over it.

Witches were not the only group that were helping in those times Infernalmage.

Energy is energy.....you may give it whatever name you wish and give any name you wish to people who use it.

The insight I have, comes from the practice and applications of the techniques as well as modified practices and rites. One must read, if one seeks to understand what is known about something by others who have also observed it, to balance it with ones own experiences. The majority of what he says in that series, is 90% dead on, however when it comes to the other species of creatures and what not, im not sure. But the rituals work better then the way they are talked about with slight modification.

Perhaps this is a case of a lifetime of reading vs a lifeteme of living ?

Perhaps this is a case of a lifetime of reading vs a lifeteme of living ?

Sure if you modify them a little practice makes perfect.Go by your feelings and what feels right if you mess up try it again.

Well I suppose its because many will not focus their wills on such a path as they have their own ways of doing things. However, I do believe that it is possible to do so.

It would be interesting to be in unity with all magic folk. I mean could you imagin if someone just all of a sudden made a place to where we all could gather? Then through out the years others would do the same and thus making and entire community. I believe that unity is possible but that doesn't mean that everyone will be focusing on the same thing.

Caravell, for me yes its a path i walk and will be walking, as its a one way road when you go down it. Such are the initiations.

But yea, I mean even in the covens/houses are places where people gather. But It would be a surprisingly interesting change if the houses contributed to rituals/magickal theory that could actually be something unique to even the rave. As it would be an active archive of Vampires/magick/rituals that people could actually get use out of. Otherwise from my observations and readings on VR this is not happening.

Because of diffrenet view's, path's, everyday living it wouldn't work. Simon is a good writer thou liked his book's. (o;

Perhaps this, what you are doing now, what you see in front of you...VR. There are numerous folks here from each faction of beliefs and practices in this forum. And we discourse among ourselves; Wytches, Vampyres, Satanists, Christians, Lycanthropes, Voudon, Goth, and many others. This is a diverse site. And we don't all agree at all. Most all are of the counterculture, imagine all of us in the same room together. No way could we do this without VR.