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To those who purchase books on the occult, what would rather see in a book? Please explain your reasons behind your answer, I want this to be more then a simple poll question.

When buying a book of on occultism, and they contain spells would you rather them:

Be filled with spells and nothing else
Cover the basics of magick and a couple spells
cover just a few spells and tell in detail how each work?

I see alot of grimoire style, just spell books, then there are beginner books, but would it be useful to have a couple big spells discussing things that aren't usually inprint?

Please explain your reasoning, as well as the type of things you would like to see in circulation.

i dont buy them i think there all wish wash

Chaos, what would make it have useful content for you then?

yeah what would the book need to contain in order for you to buy it or rent it from the library?

yea if you could have the idea book of occultism

reference on correspondence and substitution
spells
rituals

general information
advanced spells and ritual techniques
the complex how to...

history.....basics..as a startup
never assume your reader has prior knowledge
then some basic ritual, herbalism and candle usage..
then the basic idea of what spells should contain...without actually giving spells as they should be somewhat personalized anyways

It should have all of the above, i have bought many occult, spell and grimore style books and they have all come in usefull, but if a book had all in one it would save both time and money.

yes they should gointo detail about the spell and the history and what not so the user is educated with what they are doing so as not to comfuse them selves with what they might be trying to do.

very good post...

I prefer to find collectable ones or ones based on historical fact … I then take what I can decipher from it into my own …

Alright, So then I ask this question=

In a book that you purchase, it has the history and function, and basic techniques for putting it all together in one big spell at the end of the book, would that work well so there could be a series of these?

Ex= start off with basic concepts, then move into stylized ritual and a how to of certain spell-oriented means of gaining a result, Like take one idea and break it down into as many forms of magick as you can, to show how they interconnect, then take at the very end of the book, one ritual that benifits the owner of it, but they have to have worked through the previous materials in order to get the thing to work, not only learning, but gaining something as well.

if a person is realy serious about what they are trying to achieve then yes i think that it could work for the person.

a saying of the church i attended.
(well kind of has to do with the 3 fold law)
what you put out will come back to you.
thoughts are like plants once planted they will grow, or wither if not taken care of. or something like that, it's ben a while.

or thoughts are like vibrations felt by one and all in different ways. the recipient of the vibrations have there own interpretation of what is being said or felt.

So then it would be good if such things, that perhaps ran in series were created. Where when you do one you get a big spell, you do two you get a bigger one , the third book even bigger, and and one large one if you put them all together?

yea, i dont see why not, given that the person reading and casting the spell knows what they are doing.

If that was the point, to take them through all the steps needed in order to do such a thing. To put them through a trial by the nature of the book, should they suceed then the prize should be yielded like a fruit tree, where the means fall about like apples, all you have to do is pick the tastiest one for yourself.

true, very well put.

I don’t think that would work for your of the shelf witchy type … instant gratification spells …
What I look for is info on precise elements like druid moon phases, and Sumerian folk law ect … with a splash of Mayan warrior…. Basically im happy searching for clues … I don’t think the market would handle a big spell or junction of them … or the book makers would of done it …

who knows till someone trys it?

i also like to search for answers, but i also like to work for what i get so either way i would be happy.

So then, in a first of the series what would expect the limit of the thing to be? how many spells and reciepies would you put into it? because in the begining more spells will need to be learned, more sytems understood, Before one completed the grand arcanum in the series of three...or should it be longer then three should they continue in a series of six, seven, eight, nine? What would you feel would best help the reader? help the person, we see with the harry potter books they took far to long to come out with a few of them, and the rush wasn't like it was in the begining. What would the opionion the number in the series be?

i dont think that there could be a limit to any of it it. it's like a dictionary, it's never ending, or a thesourus or something of that nature, there are always things to be added. right?

That is correct.

it's like the circle of life type of book, and i am very interested in seeing if someone gets a wild hair and writes one. i would for sure buy it.

Ive already written enough material to put out three of them. I was just wondering if it would be worth my time to do so.

i think so, but then i am kind of a book worm and will read just about anything.

Yea thats the problem I have. then again I cant afford the books i want to read....costing base price of 190 $ upwards to 10,000 for occult books, *shrugs* one day though perhaps, so it might behove me to get some of my work out there.

have you appraoched llewlewin? ooh hell i cant spell.

Bah, hell no. I would go redwheel weiser. I haven't yet bothered, All of my work is still in my personal grimoire. If i was going to make it suitable for the "public" i need about 6-10 months making it understandable from the basic level up.

ahh i see not a fan of hers.
well im interested, if thats any consolation.

Yes it is, and i look forward to seeing what people decide to post about this come the time i wake up. :P Thanks for the vonv.

no problem, hit me up later

As a caster, I do not rely on books to often, for the case being:

I create my own casting circle, invocation, congeration or whathaveyou...

Books should be more of a hint system or guidlines instead of a "This is the way the spell is supposed to be". A hint or help system should come from the individual casting, not from any type of book.

Even with ancient books, long tattered and torn, one does not know whether or not the casting actually worked.

My thought...Never judge a book by its cover, unless you put your own energy into the spell, in my opinion, the spell is useless if it has any other energies within it aside from your own.

With regards
Soulshroude

P.S. Good luck on the Book, and best wishes for publishing it.

different readers will want different things. the question is do you want to give your readers what they expect, or do you want to help them on the path to find what they need to find?

I agree with Karnstein ultimately you're selling something here.

Find what sells, and write to it. If you want to write a beginner text, then develop a series each book of which is more detailed and advanced than the last, this is probably a very good option.

And if you need editorial skills you can hit me up any time ;)

I for one, do a lot of research before I act, when I look for books, it is for the knowledge contained within, I don't buy books just because they are spell books. It's more to me to learn how to do something right, then to do something quick.

i agree if your going to write a begginner then start simple and get your series to devolope as the grow with the magic

See my problem then becomes, there are so many beginner books out there, I understand the market for it. People need the same stuff regurgitated over and over before they accept the concept of something. However I have it in mind to build off of their foundation and bring it to another level of practice. Giving form and function not otherwise readily had.

I have a feeling it will do well. But so long as even a few souls buy it, its worth while, im not looking to turn a profit, im doing it because it would be useful to others who are caught between the beginner and advanced stages in some forms of occultism. i just wonder what sort of effect a work like that can have.

For the beginners inspiring them to attain something they want by having to research. For the moderatly proficent giving them a workbook they can get experiences with. For those who need something to level a table, itd be good for that too i hope.

There are beginner books, and then there are beginner books. I'm relatively sure your beginner book would not be your average off the shelf pagan-regurgitated pastel crap. Lol.

I bet you could put it like that. I had in mind to start off with that diagram on the Ars Sanguines page to give those who can understand something they can visulize as to their work :P and i dont think thats starting off at a first grade level. More like 10th grade geometry perhaps, and college level philosophy. :P

Yes well that would get rid of the wannabe paganites straight off the bat =P

The occult covers many topics. It has also been covered to death. So unless you can make a niche for your work, you will be going upstream. You will need to find what and where your market is. E-courses are now a good possibility. There is a marketing trick to publish a "vol 2" book first. This puts you in a different category. You by past the beginning books but still get get their market and you also get people looking for "something better." You also better have some personal experiences to share with the reader or you will be just another want-a-be or fruit cake. Once readers like your stuff, you can publish a vol 3 or 1 depending on what they are asking for.

I say if you are going to write a book on the occult, a spell book, or grimoire...You obviously have the intelect, the skill and proficiany to write such book.

I would suggest more of a high magik book, one that is rarely written...Something that invokes magiks long forgotten. Like that of the Cthulu Texts, or Grimorum Archnorum. Old magiks. Something learned users of the magiks can relate to and not to begin with.

I am sure you are in understanding of where I am coming from. Old magiks made the newer magiks, some things were just left behind.

With regards
Soulshroude

Soul,

I like your style. I think I will be headed from that angle. As well as starting with the VOl 2 right off the bat. I can cover that easier then a beginning book.

Thank you everyone for your ideas.

I like books that explain the hows and whys, not just do this and it causes this. Understanding is the basis on which your magick works, the better your understanding, the more potent your magick. And there is already a book that I find invaluable is this instance: Magick book 4 parts 1-4 - by Aleister Crowley is great in these respects. You can even get free stuff of his online at:

http://aleistercrowley.com/main.html

If you're interested, it's definitely worth checking out.

Evol,

Despite my distaste for that work, and the author who wrote it. Seeing that the systems used are flawed at their center. It is a book that is ahead of its time. However I have no interest in continuing on Crowley's path.

Thank you for your insights, but there is more to the systems of magick then the hack that is crowley.

I generally look for older books. Usually Complete works on a particular subject. Such as Herbs, or Stones, Or Runes. And while A mix of several styles is great for a beginer. When one begins to focus thier energy they really need a Single all encompassing book on the particular Magick at hand.

yea, i dont see why not, given that the person reading and casting the spell knows what they are doing.

I look for other peoples takes on ideas that I try to implement in my own doings. So in books if I can relate to there Ideas and ponderings then maybe I will check it out or buy it. It cant be a super commercial book either nothing Silver ravenTwit

Like to know more about how they work. Than I know what to expect.

Well usually if i buy occult books, i will mainly look for information i do not want a book with thousands of pictures and stuff like that, i want something i can read and understand, and usually i buy occult books with the history in them not just spells and pictures...

Yeah, it is good, and really a right feeling, to take out a book, out of a Library, and I feel never to return it as well. And I dont.

But, it is a problem to find a good authentic book.

Too bad theres no such books anymore.

a few good spells and the way they work...I would like to know what I'm putting out there in the Universe

I don't buy them cause it's just a wast of time & money.

When I do buy the occasional new age book things are look for:
-History
-Pictures
-A Couple of Spells/Step by Step Instructions
-Ingredients

Hey man. What a great idea you seem to have there. Will you be incorporating chaos magick into your book, and if so....would you pull more influence from hine's work or the works of spare?

I'd prefer for it to be in detail, of exactly how the spell should work and stuff...But I don't think it needs to be longwinded, pages and pages of worthless information you don't want sucks the big one.

With a book with spells, I would want it to also contain a detailed explanation of those spells, the benefits and the dangers of their use. I would not want to try anything that I did not fully understand.

I have alot of them the most one i study out of is the book of
To stir a MAGICK CAULDRON BY SILVER RAVENWOLF, A GOOD BOOK AND I HAVE ANIMAL WISE WHICH IS ANOTHER GOOD BOOK . EVERY ONE SHOULD LEARN TO GET INTOUCH WITH THEIR GUIDES AND CLOSE TO THEM.

I would buy more than one book (and have) regarding history, culture, and current. I have some books by S. Cunningham that I adore because they aren't really any "spells" in them as the ingredients to put togehter your own oils, essence or anything else you might need to make a spell. This idea of mass spells / spellmaking just isn't for me. I prefer learning the elements and then putting them together myself.

Mener.

My work naturally is chaotic. I don't reference other authors directly. as the points I have to make are my own. If you would or wouldn't be able to draw your own parallels that would be for you to study.

One cannot give the game away.

I would wanna have the origins of the spell, its leitteral signification and, word by word, origin, menaing of each of them, history of the spell, and some history on who created it, and why, its use and limits, its forbiden use and how it was use for the first time. The history of the person who made it.
Also the symbols and their origin and signification.

I prefer the old ones that have everything you need in them facts spells and results etc otherwise why bother if it does not have the entire info.

you could pay for it yourself to be made and get money back as you sell.

mind you i dont think mixing RPG with magic a big seller lol

i would perffer to have some spells but it cover everything. I used to have like 7 of them when i was younger!!!!!!

anotation, and historical refrence is always a good thing...there is nothing wrong with spell material, but good clean un convoluted discriptions are a must... Plus listings of all components and substitutions...333

hi infernal
i gave you my opinion and your entitled to it lol
i wouldn't take yourself so seriously i don't
you said you take fromRPG i really don't think anyone getting into magic will understand
as for your attitude... get some rest
as for your comments on my post ... well i do writ in altered states sometimes lol whats your excuse?


ps it's lavisbre... i thought you would get that right

haha.....yea... i know exactly what you mean.

C'est La Vie.

Spells, and in depth details on how to cast them.

bunch a blarnie all of it I don't invest in rubish I stick to what i know. what I have been taught! what I have done and what I have offered to others!

and what is it you know? what do you have to offer?

that question is too
IsisLadyOfLife

I think it depends on the target audience for the book. I like subject specfic titles, such as LaVey's Satanic Witch. I would love to see one for Vampires, compiled by Vampires.

How about it Prince?

One must have both knowledge and wisdom to make decisions . Having the knowledge (just spells) without having the wisdom behind it would be very foolish. If you donnot know what you are dealing with or any background behind it - clearly you are not ready to deal with it!

There are many wonderful books on the occult - however, if you donnot start with the basics - you will never be able to master higher things.

id like it to contain nothing but spells as i have knowledge

I like ones that have as many spells as they do the stories that surround them.

I can see that there are mixed opinions on what style of book to do. Some say a beginner book is a great idea, yet others say that a more advanced book would be more marketable as there are already too many beginners books.

My opinion is maybe to attempt to do both and maybe make a series of books, starting with a beginners guide and slowly progressing to the more experienced magicks and onwards.

That way, those that have never used magick before will be able to learn, and those that have used magicks before can select where they wish to start reading from.

You could even inform potential readers about whether the book is a more advanced book or a beginner type book.

EG:

Chaos magick for beginners (would obviously be for beginners)

Chaos Magick (could be a substantial book but for intermediate users)

Advanced Chaos Magick (speaks for itself)

Intense Chaos Magick (well this would obviously be for those users that are already at an advanced level and wish to learn more)

I am sure you get my drift.

Mener

I dig mener, And i think thats what im going for as its already working out to be a series. Where the stuff keeps going along its path to spiritual development.

Thanks for the idea.

You are very welcome Infernal. I look forward to seeing it on sale at local outlets soon LOL.

haha its gonna be about a year from now at best case senario

More variety and greater more specific detail for the neophyte would be very helpful.

glenn....check out the Magicians Companion.

Its pretty much a great book as well as the three books of occult philosophy, if your looking for that route.

But thanks for you opnion.

well i myself like books to have both spells and information in them to help you understand more on what you are doing. The books i have are very simple and have alot of chaptors to it explaining all the basics of magic, religion, riturals, potions ect it is written bye Denise Zimmermann and Katherine A. Gleason.
which are very good authors.

very good point death i always try to search for books that have detail in them not just spells.

I've read a few but they differ so much

I prefer the books to have some history, and a balance of information and spells, supplies, and illustrations or diagrams.

id like to have alot of history in the book, id like to have some pictures in it, alot of detail spells,