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i know this might get R.I.Ped but i got to say this.

there are always these adverts bout how people are dying of poverty all over the world, they are made by celebrities that are rich and cud end it themselves but instead they ask people who have to work hard for a living who probably dont have hardly anyting left after paying bills and everything else thats needs paying.

i mean u got stupid shows like big brother and celebrity love island, i mean who wants to watch people in a fucking house, the occasional argument i mean come on, with the money spent on those shows they cud end poverty for a year or so.

u got football players getting payed 25,000 and more a week, a week for kicking a football round a pitch i mean come on they alone could give 5,000 a week to help stop poverty but no they have to spend it on lookin good and all that shit.

opinions are welcome, but i wudnt be supprised if this was R.I.Ped like i said.

if celeberties donated half their money to poverty we would have rich bums

its a simple fact celebrities only give if they are going to be mentioned etc... and the whole idea of rich bums i don't think so. what we need to do is stop giving and start gulding you know the whole teach a man to fish thing. build factories and well let this country accept the goods teach those poor people a trade etc... i mean most would work harder if no one was just giving them stuff. so if you make a person work for what they get it not only help them out but build them up. i say they should not just give money put invest in the poor by making factories where they can be hired and not to create useless but useful products. phews here i go again.

In poverty and other misfortunes of life, true friends are a sure refuge. The young they keep out of mischief; to the old they are a comfort and aid in their weakness, and those in the prime of life they incite to noble deeds.

"Aristotle"

In a country well governed, poverty is something to be ashamed of. In a country badly governed, wealth is something to be ashamed of.

"Confucius"

yeah ud probably find most of the people wud do an honest days work for an honest days wage, i agree that we should teach them how to do things, they might be to pround to accept charity and ask to be taught things to help them live better.

but if celbrities wud stop thinking bout what they are going to get out of giving money towards helpin stop poverty it wud be a good start.

I agree... Would you call celebrities hipocrits? (Probably lotsa spelling errors here. I'm half asleep...) They tell you you need to do something to help just because, yet they don't help just because. They help to be more noticable. Now don't get me wrong; this probably doesn't stand for all of them, but it does stand for quite a few...

well not all celebs are hipocrit i mean bono has done a small amount of good deeds and stuff. and well others have too but most if its not appearing in the news or something wouldn't

i think we just need to take care of our own first, then others later.... keep in mind, the USA is in debt

A necesary thing poverty.
Not everyone can be rick and the ones that are lucky enough to be are too involved in themselves to pay attention to real issues.

I agree with BloodThirst, poverty is a reality of the system that most of us live in. The system provides "opprtunity" for some to move up at the cost of may who stay poor. It's not a good system because there is a huge power imbalance but it is reality. I also agree that battling poverty does start with an individual but it must move and evolve to trigger growth. No one can focus on working if they do not have a home or are too sick to work. Basic needs need to be met first and then individuals and families may have the opprotunity to focus on economic growth.
I guess what I am saying is that I believe that one can toss all the money in the world at a problem and no amount of dollars can fix it until the root issues (not just bandaid solutions) are stabilized. Complex problems that no amount of concerts can fix unless the dollars are going directly towards the core issues (too many to list).
Sorry for the rant. Good topic, got me thinking, ty :-)
~Lady~

well my friend one of the main reasons the athletes get paid like they do is because they supply the lower class with the entertainment to keep them pleased, and ya the "stars" should stop bugging us but.... what ya gunna do? its very confusing... the rich get richer, the poor get poorer...

I've tought about this for a lot of time.The celebrities don't know how to spend their money everyday,and the poor people don't know how to not die for hunger everyday.

You hear of celebs buying islands where they never go,just because they don't know how to spend their money.What if that money would be spend for poor people?Also there a lot of celebs who do charity just to be more famous,others are sincere.Thing is,it's not that there's is not enough food for everyone,but it's because it's shared badly.The rich ones are the ones who rule,and more time passes they become richer and the poor people become poorer and die,it's so sad but that's how the world goes.

most of poverty is brought on by ones own doing...there are a few casses which are not..i say give a person a hand up not a hand out
giving a hand out does nothing for that person, yes there maybe a few people who make alot of money ,,,theres also alot of them who give back as well..
as a parent i try to teach my kids an honest days work gets an honest day pay.my own daughter got hooked up with. well lets say less than a good person..he doesn;t like to work, thinks everyone owes him.they live in poverty for this reason..although i feel for my daughter she has made her choice untill she wants to change theres nothing i can do for her..
as i said before most cases of poverty is brought on by that person..

I have seen poverty. I worked the EMS system in The City of New York and I was amazed walking into some of the homes to help people. But what amazed me the most that after talking to some of them I found out that they have been on welfare for two or three generation. They did not strive to better themselves and didn't care. Some reason may be the fact that they where not given a chance or where not capable to do certain things or the fact that just didn't want to. I believe some poverty can be helped and other poverty can not. So who do we blame? The Government, the people, the upper class, the lower class? For one of the richest countries in the world we should have cured this disease a long time ago. We should blame ourselves for letting it get this far.

My family is far from rich, but I'll be god damned if I'm going to take a handout from anyone, celebrity or not. I bust my ass 9 hours a day at a shitty job to make ends meat....Why should someone who works hard for thier money just give it away to people who don't want to work? Helping out when people are on hard times is nice once in awhile, but everyone struggles... I can't stand when I'm on my to work and I get harrased by homeless people for money or ciggerettes. I say 'how about I buy you a newspaper so you can find a job?'
Then they get pissy and move on to the next person. I'm offering them help, maybe not in the nicest way, but I'm fed up! Sorry if that sounded really harsh, but it's the way I feel.

Thats giving people the oppertunity to help where they can, no matter how much money you have, you deserve the fundemental right to help others.

Romman... rich bums? People in the third world are NOT bums... they get exploited everyday by debts they owe to the western world, to OUR countries. Its us who keeps them in debt, and so often are they exploited by companies, how can they ever crawl out of debt?

So maybe you should stop and think before you call people bums... and realise whose fault it is in the first place.

well many billions of dollars in third world debt has been forgiven and forgotten in the last few years.....
their problems have more to do with bad governing and military excess
if they took their collective military budgets....and put them into agriculture and infrastructure......sure they wouldn't be able to kill one another....but they would be more profitable countries also...
if one dollar a day can feed them for a week like we see in all the ads...how long could the cost of a tank feed them?
I know a little about poverty...hell less than two years ago..I myself was living an a homeless sheleer due to unavoidable circumstance....but you know what i did.....I never sat on a corner asking for spare change....
I got a full time job for shit pay....but it was pay....worked at a temp agency on my days off....and got myself a place again...it does take work....it is not easy....
but then again...who ever said life was easy......poverty is nothing more than yet another hurdle in life to overcome....those who honestly try...will make it....many see the hurdle....and will never even try....

Having been on both ends of the spectrum in this debate, from living on the streets to owning land in two countries, and seeing examples of how each part live, I can speak to a few points here.

Those "bums" of which you speak ... do you have any idea how many of them are mentally disturbed? How many lack even the faculties to realize they need to see a doctor when a lesion is wearing through the skin on their face? I forget the timeframe, but many state supported institutions here in the US, a while back, released many mentally incompetent people out into the world with no means or plan of governing them or making sure they could or would care for themselves.

I notice no one, as yet, mentioned the insane as a portion of the street population.

And what about children? Are the runaways, the throwaways, are they bums too?

Those who can help themselves, who are mentally competent, by any and every definition SHOULD work at whatever jobs can be found to better their positions before resorting to only welfare or only handouts/panhandling.

There are people enough who have no other recourse but to sit with a begging bowl.

As for celebreties - don't tar them all with the same brush, and don't tar all rich or monetarily comfortable people with the same brush.

Why should a person impoverish him or herself to give all of their money to temporarily ease the plight of another group?

I am not saying don't give anything at all ... by no means am I saying that.

However.

Simply because a man drives a Mercedes, don't spit him and burn him as heartless. You have no idea the good works he does in private, seeking no acclaim.

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I much prefer being in the position of landowner, and giving privately to charities than to watching friends sell their bodies for food.

If you don't know the topic, don't blather generalisms. It's incredibly insulting.

yes I forgot to mention the mental cases
Canada also did a mass release.....
and we have large numbers of people unable to work homelees or in poverty arising from this

Daermon i am soo glad sum 1 else sees that!!!! i hav been bitching about that finger clicking advert for weeks!!!! these ppl spend millions everyday on things they dnt need, while the ppl over here who r trying to sturggle buy have to fix third world countries too!!!!!!

I realise that this is the reality of this world but that doesnt make it fair. some people are born into this world with a chance and some arent. Why does Brooklyn Beckham deserve more than a 5 year old (called X) living in nigeria. He has not earned a penny of his money and has no talent to prove it. What if X is a genius, he will still never be as rich as Brooklyn. Brookylns pocekt money may be more than X earns in his life!! if his life lasts long enuf for him to get a job!!!!

One thing i know is that people in the third world country work thier but off when they come hear and that shows you that they want to strive. some of them die on badly made sea vessels trying to get to this country for a chance to better themselves. so when one say poors just are using the rich i say you need a reality check. sure there are some especially in this country i see that donot try after they have hit rock bottom. but there are many who still try to get back up again. and the psychological effect that these people suffer is great some of them just learn to admit defeat and die. saying not to help the poor is like saying kill all the poor then whats next all with aids and cancer. we seems to be incensitive at times when we are not in others shoes.

vampires don't have to worry.

I have to agree with what you said vamp. It's all too true

Echo you should probably stop listening to the liberal media and actually look at the loans the west has given to Africa we give them loans over 40 years with no interest. The reason they can't pay it back is because of the warlords and tyrants running them countries.

No amount of money's going to solve the poverty in Africa. Maybe if they got off their arses and deposed the idiots in charge they could sort their countries out.

Maybe the USA should have thought about the fallout when they made the Empire leave Africa in return for Martial Aid. They were much better off with their betters running them and quite frankly they weren't ready to govern themselves when we left and they aren't now.

After WWII Europe was fucked and with much less money than Africa's been given we sorted ourselves out.

You'd think that with their 35,000 year headstart they'd be doing a bit better than us wouldn't you?

No amount of money's going to solve the poverty in Africa. Maybe if they got off their arses and deposed the idiots in charge they could sort their countries out.


YEah its true no amount of money but they could start businesses there. hmm i hate to turn this into a political thing but hmmm. how are we going to help iraq use thier resources to build stuff etc... start businesses. isn't that should be the same way but i say this country helps to get something in return wheter its aliance or just looking like the good guys.

May I make a quick comment for a moment? I agree with the terror of the worlds around us. Even in america, our beloved home, we have third world sections.

For nearly two years I went through tremendous hard times. You know what I mean, if you've been there. Traveling light, nothing to my name, eating at a shelter, helping other homeless people when I can, yes I've been there. There was something incredible that I've learnt though..........Vow of Poverty. Ok, you are going to stop reading "yup she lost it!"

I actually found simplistic living this way, only have what you need, what you require, not wanting. nothing more. I've studied this of our society and believe it or not (probably not) this trend is growing. Simplistic living goes back to roots of smaller homes, if that, one room living, no car. It's been three or four years now, and it's still engrained into me.

With all the money out there, people wanting more and more and more, raises, working harder to buy more stuff.........why?

Welcome to the rat race, but if you want too you can stop running. Life will go on.

Hug for Requiem, I know what you mean.

Drakon...on one point I could agree with your statements...but then you say led by their betters.....define betters for me......
is better the government who took these people and made slaves of them for a few centuries....is better the government who forcibly stripped them of their culture as they also tried to do with the irish...and the north american natives.....
I agree they have fucked things up on their own...but when you strip all the culture and religion from a people and then teach them about Civilised life....with it's guns, rapes, murders, thefts and what not....don't cry about what you end up with...
they had their own wars before us...
but it was a few dozen...maybe a hundred warriors tribe to tribe.....and many were not killed....knocking your opponent uncontious showed you were truly the better man than killing him....
it was us the whites that taught much of the third world about the horrors that war can truly accomplish.....
so get off the high horse till you know what you are talking about.....
their betters....seriously

*cheers Daer*

Betters. *snort*

Poor choice of words, there, kiddo.

I meant their betters and I stick by that statement.

We always get the blame for the slave trade but the fact is that slavery was rife in Africa long before we got there and it continues there to this day. We took advantage of an existing system.

We tried to strip them of their culture? What we did was see how poorly they were living and show them a better way. And I think you'll find that it's the Americans who screwed up the Indians not us. One of the real reasons for your rebellion was our refusal to renege on the treaty we had with the Indians not to expand anymore.

That's a very selective veiw of the tribal warfare that existed in Africa you should probably look into the Zulu's and the constant raiding for slaves and resources. Everyone tries to paint a pretty little picture of Africa before the Empires but the fact is they were much worse off before the grab for Africa which is why when we were forced to leave by the Martial Aid program a lot of the territories in the Empire wanted to remain in the Empire.

And we are better than them. Please name one way they are better than us? I don't think there are any but if you can come up with something I'll reply with a multitude of ways we're superior to them.

It'd be brilliant if everyone in the world was equal but realistically that's just not true. If they were even close to equal with us they'd be so far advanced by now that we'd be cavemen by comparison. They've been in Africa for 35,000 years, I can't reiterate that enough. What have they accomplished in that time? Before we got there their technological accomplishments were the spear, mudhuts and basic pottery skills. They hadn't even figured out the wheel! Are you telling me that a culture that's that dire deserves to flourish? In a purely Darwinian sense they should've been wiped out already to pave the way for someone who knows what they're doing.

I'm not advocating mass genecide btw just making a point.

hmmm actually I have looked into the zulu culture....and some of the books I have read on african history...were actually written by native africans....unlike the ones you will find in schools which were largely written by men who have never actually even been there....much less asked the african people about the accuracy...
try writings of a zulu witch doctor-author Credo Mutwa
and the natives I was referring to are the canadian ones from my perspective....of which part of my own heritage comes...not american...

so as I said before..get off the high horse till you have a clue what you speak of...
and i'll end off there before I get rude

What was the point you could agree with me on btw? I'd be interested to know what I could have to say that you'd agree with as you seem shockingly left wing.

actually I agree wholeheartedly that all the money in the world won't help as long as corrupt militaries are in charge....it was the blatant disrespect for a people who you obviously know very little about that galled me.....in the words of ed the sock.... read a book!

Your right I do have absolutely no respect for their culture and I don't see why I should. I know enough about their culture to know that it doesn't deserve any respect. I don't see why everyone is supposed to respect people's cultures. Just having a culture shouldn't mean it automatically deserves respect. What has this culture achieved? A culture should have to earn respect the same way everything else in the world does.

And on the contrary I read many books I just tend to steer clear of left-wing propaganda.

all i can say is that i live here in america.... there are 4 of us in our family... we live off my moms wages... she makes about 5000-10.000 a year.... our apt has 2 bedrooms... and we only have what we need... and the sad part is that we are pretty well off compared to some of the people that live around us....

I think that the government should automatically put more money to third world countries- not tax money Im talking about all that "extra" money that they put in their pockets... maybe then countries like Zimbabwe(sp?) and Ethiopia would get better.

Poverty is a function of the system which is utilised not only to provide a working underclass (see 'human resource') to maintain the development of the economy (or personal wealth if in a junta/dictatorship), but combined with the great riders of war, famine and disease (all of which are products of misaligned governmental policies), is also incidental in its contribution to population control.

the legacy of Africa in the post-colonial free for all that has erupted, fueled by inter tribe warfare and concealed by the corrupt 'leaders' who were installed by, or seized power with, 'western' organisations, such as France, US, UK, and host of governments, the gold and diamond mining corporations (specifically anglo-american gold, anglo-gold, de beers, et all) and other more circumspect 'venturists', has become a twisted mess of lies and death, leaving the ordinary man in the street with little hope for the future, which further drives the expansion of conflict.

I do not beleive that many of those fighting in the congo and east, northeast of the continent even know why they fight any more...is it for land? why, when it is dry and useless?

is it for ancient tribal conflicts? - maybe, but education has broken down to such a level that even historical racial differences are no longer the greatest motivator...

perhaps greed? - the diamonds and the wealth in the jungles will send many to their deaths in search of a glorious find to help them escape the madness that has engulfed the entire region...

or perhaps it is forced upon them because no nation on earth values the life of a person in another over the wellbeing of its own citizens....it is a question of a cost comparison - does it cost more to help these people than the potential gain from doing so?

if the answer is yes, then it is a non starter, if not, then they will invade under the pretext of a 'humanitarian' mission or 'threat to national security'.


the obvious example for this is Iraq.

lots of oil = lots of money

lots of death = lots of money

does oil money make more than death money costs?

potential revenues in Iraq oil feilds = $200billion

overall cost of the war = $40-60Billion.
(reliable estimates last time I checked - please feel free to correct me)

ergo, war is the option.

I agree.....look around. America, or the U.S.ofA. has basketball stars, football stars, and all sorts of celeberities getting paid millions of dollars...just for entertainment. And soldiers and doctors do get paid, but not as much as they SHOULD. Our society is falling apart. Our polotics are screwed up. And americans are screwed over. I'm surprised we make it this far, every day. People, children, youth-are living on the streets and the only ones whom get attention are the celebertites. they don't need it.

Olwen there was nothing wrong with Zimbabwe until Mugabe killed or drove off all the white farmers. It was the bread basket of Africa until he decided to use the white farmers as a vote winner.

And look what happened when they succeeded. Mass starvation and spiraling poverty. I don't think we should give any money at all to Zimbabwe or any of these other corrupt dictatorships. It's like telling a child not to steal and then giving him money every time he does.

I'd just like to point out that Mugabe proved to me that it's internationally acceptable to be racist against white people. If Mugabe was a white man telling white people to drive black farmers off their land there would have been international uproar, sanctions would have been imposed and UN peacekeepers would have been in within 24 hours.

Btw if people disagree with the points I'm making (ie Daermon) I'd appreciate it if you'd take on my points one-by-one instead of just saying "thats wrong" and telling me to "read a book". If you can come up with some actual facts that destroy my arguments I'll gladly accept them, after all I am open-minded.

Going back to something you said earlier about you not wanting to get rude. If you want to get rude please continue I've grown quite used to it as it's the only real recourse the left has to back up their ridiculous world view. You'll notice that I'll never get rude or attack the man rather than the argument, I can do this because I'm comfortably backed up by reams of facts.

did you knwo if all of the land used to grow tabbaco were used to grow food to give to the staveing then we could slove world hunger and smoking coseing the NHS a tone of money. so there would be more money for the goventment to give to thease poor countrys that could build schools and irigation sytems, vagas was a dry desret like land irigation changed that, imagine what we coudl do. Britain is hosting the G8 confrence. and one of the main isuses is Poverty. THe rich counrtys should cancel the depts, as they dont need the money at all.

actually I agree wholeheartedly that what Mugabe did was wrong....
and the problem of ignoring one side of any argument..is that all sides are only giving their opinion...so to truly understand..you must read all sides....
and well you may be inured to rudeness....
but it is something I feel is unnecessary in public forum....that is what started this argument in the first place....
you could have said they were better off with the governing body they had before...instead of the comment about their betters....and that would have said the same thing without being overtly rude

Yes it would have but I used the word 'betters' because that's what I believe and using another word would have been weak and wouldn't have got my point across. I didn't realise this was an argument I thought it was a constructive debate.

Drakon read a book! Actually Drakon, I know you've read the books—I can see it in your half-truths. C'mon lets out with the full truth. Europe was given help by their friends: Africa had no friends, and instead was a battlefield of the cold war, and the legacy of that cold war in Africa is debt.

You mention the Marshall plan, but fail to point out that ‘We (Europe) did not sort ourselves out’; we got help—ten percent of the American economy was diverted to Europe after WWII. If ten percent of the G8 economies was pumped into Africa for a decade, Africa would be not be a continent of tears. But instead Africa got ‘the International Monetary Fund (IMF)’. The IMF makes profit by lending money to warlords, and is a byword for wickedness and duplicity. Under the auspices of help, the IMF is guilty of inflicting massive debt on the vulnerable. I'm ashamed of the IMF, and I believe more than debt cancelling, we should be compensating the victims of the IMF.

Now Drakon I want you to clarify the rest of your posts.

Martial Aid was America helping it's friends? On the contrary Martial Aid was America destroying the Age of Empire because Empires don't fit in with it's world veiw.

Europe was given 10%, that's right and we sorted ourselves out. Africa's been given a hell of a lot more money than we got including the loans that you liberals like to bitch about. I just wish I knew more of you people so I could lend money of you. Africa wouldn't sort itself out if it had 10% of the GDP from every country in the world.

I really don't see why we should help them to be honest with ya, I know for a fact they wouldn't help us if the situation was reversed. We should cordon the dark continent off and let it rot or sort itself out so it stops draining our economies because of their inefficiency and blatent stupidity.

If you need any points that I've made clarifying tell me what it is and where the ambiguity lies and I'll explain it to you.

hehe damn...and I thought I was never going to agree with you miz....you continue to surprise me...
however on the dollar sign point I do agree with Drakon.....much as I hate to admit it...
they need to clean the corruption out of their governing body before I would agree to one additional penny of assistance.....of course to do this the so called betters...as in all the rest of us...need to stop selling their militaries the weapons they use to keep the people from rising....

Monetary aid promotes corruption—Drakon, you have said as much in your half-truth. Your half-lie is that you blame an innocent kid in the Sudan, rather than admit that you are an evil money lender—a money lender who forces women and kids to pay off someone else's debt. The kid, if he knew you, would be bitter: and his mother Africa? she'd just be glad if you'd stop raping her.

Drakon show your divinity, be like Buddha—leave the palace and find out who's paying the bills for your ‘civilization’

well simple fact is that the empire of england was built on conquest, slavery, and theft form other peoples.....and as a student of history this is something i have studied in depth.....I am not saying that most other cultures that have prospered did not also do the same...just do not delude yourself into believeing that the english are better than others....
the only reason they held sway as long as they did was a potent navy in a time when such a thing meant political control.....since the late 1800's...the british empire has been a fast fading joke when compared to the rest of the world......the monarchy is outdated and failing fast.....which is why most of the commonwealth countries are breaking their ties... they don't want to go down with a sinking ship.....and this is current events facts....canada has severed most political ties....australia is working on the same....africa is a long lost cause to the brits....and well they never really did hold the west indies....even ireland is gaining ground in its fight for it's own rule...which has not happened in centuries....so while you are asking what africa has accomplished...why not also ask what britain ever accomplished...many of the accomplishments the british claim were by commonwealth countries...not britain itself...

We tried to strip them of their culture? What we did was see how poorly they were living and show them a better way. And I think you'll find that it's the Americans who screwed up the Indians not us. One of the real reasons for your rebellion was our refusal to renege on the treaty we had with the Indians not to expand anymore.

DRAKON please open your history books and don't study from only the bias ones. i have read history in three languages before i even started to judge even then i don't put blame. i say wtf. better way? hm... what is better about this way guns weapon hey if a guy is on the street its non of your business because hey its his own damn fault and all sorts of barbarism. I have studied history and don't try to rationalize shit. because this nation has done a lot of bad the worst thing is a bad guy that hide under the shadow of good. i hate to but a comic book reference but we are the lex luthor of the world. hidding behind a good image when we do bad. i mean hell if you take the african people. they were actually a bit prosperous sure it wasn't at a grand scale and there was wars but they were doing a bit better. and the natives i mean we sign peace treaties with them and then well we fuck em over. the only way they are fighting back is by using your own laws against you after you have consumed and taken everything they have. so dont' tell me about good or better government. because there is no such thing in this world. they are all equaly bad.

Miz I don't want to give any money to Africa, it's you who wants to give them money "If ten percent of the G8 economies was pumped into Africa for a decade, Africa would be not be a continent of tears". Wouldn't this promote the corruption that you attempt to blame on me?

If you actually read my posts then you'd see that I don't blame some "innocent kid" I place the blame where it belongs, with the corrupt governments. The same corrupt governments who are in actuality the real people forcing "women and kids to pay off someone else's debt".

We don't charge interest on the loans that we give them either so it's not usuary. I assume Christianity is where you get your out-dated notions of money-lending as evil?

It's like being blessed. Some people are exstravently rich because they respect and the unworthy are alway pennyless.

If this country is such a joke then why have we got the fourth largest economy in the world? If this country is such a joke then why have we got the second most powerful military force in the world?

You want some British accomplishments? Both the Agricultural Revolution and the Industrial Revolution which was arguably the start of Western civilisation as we know it today. Look here for a list of British inventions. If you want to look for the plethora of scientific theories we've come up with then you can do that for yourself. Just in case you think that was all far in the past read this:

[quote]THE BRITISH are commonly acknowledged to be among the best in the world when it comes to inventions. Over the past 50 years, according to Japanese research, more than 40 per cent of discoveries taken up on a worldwide basis originated in the United Kingdom. And at an important exposition of inventions in the United States recently, the UK won four of the top prizes.
Historically, the list of innovations makes impressive reading: Stephenson, Watt, Brunel, Trevithick and, more recently, Babbage with his forerunner of the computer, and right up to date, James Dyson and his bagless vacuum cleaner and Trevor Baylis with his clockwork radio.

These are just some of the more famous names but behind the scenes there are thousands more who have changed and are in the process of changing the way we lead our lives. The ideas may be as simple and as useful as the paperclip or they may be highly technical and specialised as the latest form of micro-processing is. But one thing they have in common is that they are all 'firsts' in some way.[/quote]

I didn't really have to make the point that we're still accomplishing things to this day because all I asked you to do was come up with an African accomplishment from any time in history. We've accomplished many things in the past and we still are to this day.

Maybe you should take your own advice and "read a book". Now you turned my question on me and I've answered it, I haven't answered it comprehensively because I haven't got enough time to search out every accomplishment. I've listed some technological accomplishments I could just as easily have mentioned that we invented a form of democracy in use in many countries in the world today. Now it's your turn to tell me what they've accomplished.

No offence CorazonMuerto but I can't make head nor tail of your post.

If you want me to answer it then you'll have to go through it and make it legible because I tried wading through it and the grammer's terrible.

I'm happy you can read three languages that makes you much more intelligent than me but maybe you should've done better at learning this one.

and here he attacks the man.....as he has derided others for....

the problem with asking what have they created is that maybe....just maybe....they were far happier as a tribal people....and did not feel a need for the MODERN technologies we in fact forced upon them.....in fact part of the zulu culture and religions actively was against invention over man doing things themselves...i'm not saying it is the better way in my eyes.... but it may have been better for them and their way of life......
for example....native americans lived with a sense of harmony in nature....they did not over hunt their lands....instead of forcing nature to their mold..they lived within it as all other things do....
I personally like living in a technological age.....
but it does not make what we did to get it right....
thousands of lesser evils do not make a good

Well Drakon, maybe you should realise that what is typed is not all a person thinks on a subject.

Im not saying that totally abolishing third world debt is oging to make the world a happy smily place... but I think it would help a little to the general state of a country.

As Daermon and Req mentioned, I think the use of the term 'betters' is somewhat uncalled for, although that of course depends on what frame you meant it... and when considering your long C+P about British inventions, I assume oyu mean in the physical sence of what we have done for the rest of the world.

There is poverty everywhere, and although I cannot comment on the experience from either extreme, I do think that its more important to consider how those who wish to, oculd help those who wanted to be helped, rather than bashing celebrities and trying to outdo others with historical knowledge.

If you want to discuss an evolutionary race between countries, then thats fine, and assume that everyone in the world has the same mentality as you, then thats also fine... Im sure that every african would turn around and say "we can kick people out of government if we want, so lets do it.'

But I didnt really think that that was the discussion that was started in this thread.

yes totally agreed.....i'm sorry to have dragged the toic away from it's question into a mudslinging match.....
the actual question was a valid one

I didn't mean it as an attack, I just wanted to explain to him why I hadn't answered his post.

No offence Daermon but all I read there was a long excuse as to why they haven't contributed anything to human advancement. Do you still stand by the statement you made about Britain's accomplishments?

Echo I realise that what a person types doesn't encapsulate everything they think on a subject but you have to realise that what you write is all I can answer.

I love you people who want to abolish world debt. I really wish I knew some of you people personally so I could lend money off you. I'm sure you'd expect me to pay you back. Besides this they could pay the money back if they used it wisely. In most of these countries that owe so much money the local dictator has 90% of the country's wealth.

I still want to hear what the Africans have contributed to the human race. Everyone seems to be skirting around this issue.

I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem
 — Song of Solomon 1:5
The bedtime story “the Song of Solomon” is a masterpiece, and it is not about a hot goth chick dressed in black.

Talking of masterpieces, here's an African Mask.

African civilizations: Kush/Kemet, Axum, Great Zimbabwe.

Drakon, everything you are came from Africa.

England has one great invention: its institutions. When social scientists rank the nations of the world according to indicators of relative personal freedom, the only common denominator among most of those scoring the highest is that they were once governed by the British. And that said, I would be a white man living in Zimbabwe with English law, rather than living in China.

well this has gone into the realm of pointless....and I hate argueing with a broken record.... so my .02$ ends here

if it's broke fuckin fix it if it ain't then the hell with it poverty is world wide and you know that the government don't give a shit bout the little man get off the soapbox and snap back to real life hello

Hmm ...
Kill all the poor people , myself included . The really poor will welcome death with open arms and the rest of society will forget them . That should give world economy a boost ...

its probably going to end up getting alot worse before it even starts getting better.

and that finger clicking advert is so crap why make an advert like that whats the point, every 3 secs a child dies over there, click 1,2,3 click, ahhhhh.

Death does not solve anything. In time society will stop production and more people will be in poverty. So what kill them too. Soon the world will be empty cause society figured out a way to take money and make everyone else suffer. then society will suffer and die away. This will mean a new beginning for all. The proverty is provided by those who have money why would they want to give their money to what they have created. As they say the rich get richer and take from the poor will the poor just get poorer and suffer till death comes for them. Yes some are born into that kind of lifestyle, some much has been taken so much suffer has been given that there is no way of changing it or making it out. Just let life run it's course and death will take who it wants, being rich or poor it's all the same to him !!

tey dotn need all that money..who needs 5 cars and 3 houses? no that money show be put toawrds people who need it. theres too much of a balance..we need to more equalize it.

Then how about a charity thing to give poor people poison ? Only those who have had enough will take it ...

On poverty - over-population might be a problem ..

Mail to them birth control?

Population control definately.

Celbrities do have a lot more money to give to try and stop poverty but that doesn't let the rest of the hard working people off the hook.

The thing with rich people being made to give away their money to poor people is that if they have to do that then what is the incentive to work hard and earn yourself a lot of money? Why bother when once you've got yourself in a postition when you're rich and secure and you can have whatever you want someone comes along and says "sorry mate you don't deserve that because someone else is poor". That's a ridiculous and unworkable system. It smells like communism to me and we all know how well that works lol

oddly, but not really related...I do have an extract from a white house breifing which advises to prep for invading Iraq...over a year prior...all that time it was 'show me the weapons' when they always intended to invade regardless...but hey

Sound economic sense; a poverty trap: Screw a country with a loan, force them to put in cash crops, and then buy the cash crops for a price lower than what it takes to service the loan. Viola! crops for nothing and your chicks for free.

As for the entertainers, the sportsman, the executives, I think they are paid an offensive amount of money. It would be nice to see some balance.

Ok this thread has been done to death.... bye bye

Mistress Moreish