I have seen alot of people on here that claim to be wiccan and vampires doesnt that go beyond the morals of being wiccan??
Actually, that is a very good point...Something worth thinking about.
then again, half of these people just claim to be 'vampires' or ''wiccans''
i understand exacally what you are saying bonechiller there are people on here that say that i would like to know myself why that is
I dont know... I dont study wiccan, so sadly I can not help you...
it would depend on ones feeding habits..... if you are invasive....a predator...then yes it would go against wicca....not some other forms of paganism...but wicca.... but if you ony take what you must from willing donors...or in the case of a psy.....from general large groups who will not miss it...then no...this does not go against the harm none edicts
Daermon is right.
Simply put, as long as Wiccan Vamp "harms none", and the Donor agrees to it......the Vamp can drink blood.
If you are REALLY a psy you can make someone faint and that goes against the three fold law
Simply because one can, Non, does not mean one must be so greedy as to harm another through energy feeding.
I never pull from someone whose permission I have not gained. I learned my lesson quite a few years back on that one.
It is quite possible to adhere to the tenets of non-harm and feed from the energy of another. =)
i guess alot has changed i was told wiccan is white deals with nature and vampires are black and deal with night i always thought wicca were witchs how can one be both i dont understand
as with any belife it has changed it seems
there is nothing that states you can't harm other what is stated is that what you do will return three fold some don't care or don't belive in that anyway so they are not tru wiccan but more like a cross between the two
as with all thing they become coruppted and misused
true wiccan and ye harm none does not always mean actual harm. yar not allowed to change/alter a life in anyway shape or form unless it is an absolute must to their and others survival. even from a willing victim or from a large group as daermon said would be a form of harm. harm is harm, people rationalize, The Mother never does! and for stuff like that i would expect one helluva consequence. so no, you can not be a true wiccan and a vamp of any sort. you can be pagan tho, and lots get the two confused. cuz ofcourse there just lil pipsqueeks, but thats not for this thread.
If you take it that far, however, Lady, that would mean giving a hair cut would have terrible consequences, as you are altering a life in some fashion.
Performing a beneficial spell would also alter a life in some fashion, and have terrible consequences.
(No, I am not "Wiccan", though my beliefe system falls somewhatnear it ... I don't know if there is a lable. They're my beliefs. *shrug*)
mine was just an example not a statement Requiem,therefore some do it & others don't but I do agree with what you posted
i would take it that far, i'm a naturalist. i don't cut my hair, its four feet long now. i am disgusted by my mother who does spells. its one thing to request something, but an entire nother to demand it and attempt to change without request the natural proccess, which is what spell casting is. its a deman not a request. but i'm not sure this is for this thread. so i'll stop posting so i don't get y'all RIP'd
"An' it harm none, do what thou wilt" is a wonderful crystalization of the Golden Rule. Yet if I can expand on what Requiem pointed out, virtually any action a human makes, no matter their intention, harms another. All the Wiccan Rede really speaks to is intentional and direct harm.
Any life you consume in order to continue your own life directly or indirectly harms another. This is more directly obvious for those who eat meat, so many Wiccans choose also to be Vegans. But even a "green salad" had to die for you to eat it. Is its life any less important than a cow's?
The same is true for vampires that are Wiccan, I don't see it as a contradiction. Any vampire (feeding from any form of energy) must indirectly harm a life in order to take the other's energy. But if given freely then the intentional harm is gone.
Nobody can say they are harming none, for "harm" has too broad a definition to be useful. If it wasn't the case, you wouldn't also need the Threefold Law of "What thou sow, thou shall reap thrice." Another wonderful crystalization, this time of Karma. The best you can hope for is that the good you do balances or overtakes the harm you cause.
As for spells, true some may be demanding in nature, but most are requests. You are making a request of Nature personified to bless you with some effect. To make a request or demand may indeed cause harm to something, especially if you upset the natural balance of things to shift them in your favor. Again, the Wiccan Rede is a challenge to not intentionally harm someone with your spell.
in addition Elder D
taking of energy from a group in general is not harmful as most people have more energy than they are using anyways....
and many even give energy off..... harnessing this ambient energy in no way harms the person....it's like saying you are harmed by the world cooling the heat you give off.....you are no longer in use of it....
like most religions most people don't trully follow it's practices. a balance of the two can be achieved but alot that say they are both are not really either to even attempt that. they are just tring to be something they are not around a certen group of people
I think psycobloodpire makes a good point though... I've always thought that wicca is white magic, and vampires are black.
I don't know either way, but it's an interesting point...
QUOTE: If you are REALLY a psy you can make someone faint and that goes against the three fold law :QUOTE
This is true, but I think if a psy vamp was to control how much it takes, and not harm the other person, they can be wiccan and a vampire
the wiccan rede states that "an it harm none, do as ye wish". harm is of course relative, but yes, all in all, vampirism would go against the rede.
again it depends on the type of vamp....and the greed/vs/need of the individual.....if as some on the site have in the past said....humans are just more interesting food....then in that case none truly follow the rede as even vegans harm plants.....and i am sure they would swat a mosquito....
Question:Who says that whoever says:'I'm a vampire, I'm wiccan, is telling the truth?
I can tell you am the re-incarnation of Cleopatra,but that it's upon you to believe me or not-_-
actually if you look up the old rede's and crede's and any other way you want to put it. the wicca one says "an it harm none lest harm be done" its like saying well i'm gonna be nice, but there's only so far i'm willing to let you push me. cuz sometimes you just gotta push back.
"An it harm none lest harm be done"... Yet another version of the Golden Rule, though this one tells you consequences, and therefore is merged with Karma. I like it.
In the simplest use of the term, a vampire is a human being who craves and feeds from a specific type of energy source.
To my knowledge, there are very few energy sources that offer their energy freely, and even if they do give it away, they still lose that energy which in effect harms that source.
The Sun is probably the only source of energy which does radiate a great deal of energy and it can be seen that it's suffering is negligible, for it is out there for someone to take. Ironically, sunlight happens to be one source of energy that weakens, even harms, some vampires. But there are some people who gain energy from sunlight, as well as other natural sources, like wind and weather phenomena.
Plants and animals both take energy and provide energy. Animals eat the plants, which harms them, and helps the animals grow. We humans in turn harm plants and animals in order to feed off of their energy.
As Daermon suggests, human beings radiate psychic energy, and I'll add they also radiate warmth. While this may be given freely, it does harm them to take it from them, even if only a tiny amount that they may not notice.
They also are a storage of blood, sexual energy, and emotions. All of these can be fed from, and again, even if given freely with permission, they deplete the human's supply, thus harming them.
There's only one symbiotic relationship I can think of. Trees and plants give off oxygen which we need to survive and we give them carbon dioxide which they need to survive.
In virtually every respect, a human is no different than a vampire. We all have specific cravings and specific food sources. The difference lies in the source they require.
If a human being can still claim to practice "An' it harm none, do what thou wilt," then why can't a vampire? Show me a Wiccan who faithfully follows the Wiccan Rede who does not eat something in order to survive.
It don't care if you didn't slaughter your own cow, chicken, pig, or chop your own vegetables. They were harmed so that you could eat them. Moreover, I doubt anyone got their permission. If a vampire gets a donor's permission, I'd say they're closer to following the Rede than a Wiccan who blessed her veggie-burger.
Why is it so hard to believe that a vampire could also be a Wiccan?
a) Are you biased against vampires?
b) Do you understand The Wiccan Rede?
c) Do you comprehend the predatory nature of a human being, vampire, or life itself?
d) all of the above
As for people here pretending to be vampires or Wiccans. Who cares? Give people their fantasies. The real world shuns us all; that's why we came here. It's bad enough if you have your biases about people, why be biased against peoples masquerades?
*agrees with ElderDaniel on the ''needing a source'' part
I couldn't help but put my two cents in here. Thank you ElderDaniel (with a very cool south park new avatar) for pretty much breaking it down for all of us. Very well written.
For those of you that know me, I follow the Pagan/wiccan/neopagan/etc however you want to label it path. I am also ....gods it sounds so cheesy, I fit into this catagory.
People like to see the extremes of things, vampires, witches, vegans, stuff like that. It is either one way or no way. I have an alter in my bedroom, and magickal supplies scattered through my home, mostly for protection. I do not believe that harming someone justifies your needs, even if those needs are intense. Have I harmed individuals intentially, unitentially throughout my existance during feeding frenzies, near starved?...yes. Have I paid?, yes. Do I accept this? Yes. "If you are a vampire, you cannot be both." Life is not black and white, life is shades of greys. Truly.
Speaking about nature in all it's glories, have you seen the darker side of nature? Their own share of killings/feedings? Have you seen the incredible fires that occure, for only weeks later for seedlings to sprout and life to start anew? This is life, in all it's facets.
Lilith is my guide, in all her shades of grey. She is the only way to describe my being both wiccan and vampire. Imagine her as mother nature. She is harsh, fierce, brutal, and awe inspriring, yet she gives willingly.
Are there posers out there? Of course there are. Let them be, and let them be happy. So long as they don't harm anyone. I love the way ElderDaniel put it.
As for vampires only being black, that's not the case always. I can hear shattering mirrors, oh gods I ruined life for everyone here. Not all vampires are grim monsters wearing black, sure their faces would shatter if they smiles. Yes I went through that, when I was a teenager, been there done that.
We are more than the movies or books led to believe. We hold children, tend to the sick, heal when we can. I won't get on a speal of that, it's another thread.
For now, I am happy the thread is here to offer opinions. As the way ElderDaniel says on his profile for religions; "I love them all. Choose one, choose them all."
Now maybe it would make sense when I say "Dark blessings."
Just don't hurt anyone. And leave the poor salads out of it. sheeeesh. You could argue the fact that you walk on grass for heavens sakes.
not I lady Lillian....I tiptoe agross the pebbles and fly across the insects....
and I have one helluv an imagination.....
I love it when we get the lovely lilian to talk...so rare these days...and her words are so often profound.....
but yes....predatory action is a large part of lifes great circle.....as long as it is used in a balanced way.....
so be one with the force young paduan
and all things are well
I'm not sure about the wiccan vampire thing.. All I know is I am a witch,,But do follow the wiccan ways ...
Blessed Be
Angitia
No, it doesn't go against any sort of code when it comes down to faith or practices. Just because you are of the Condition doesn't mean anything. I'm a Vampyre and study Qabalahism and Theurgy, which is Jewish Occult and High Ceramonial Magic.
yup, I would say that it does.
Wiccan is an art form that protects and harvests nature, preserving life, where as relieving the living of it's life's blood is at the very core of vampirism.
Actually to tell the truth, not all Vampyres feed on blood, some feed on emotion, some on Mental energy. It all depends on what we are aspected towards. Also, just because we need anothers life energy to make ourselves feel stronger, healthy, doesn't mean we hurt others to get it.
Also, look at it this way, everyone feeds on animals and plants, we just so happen to feed a little on other people. So no one can say were parisites when, everyone does the same exact thing.
I am not a real religous person but if you ask I will say christian. I do belive in wicca but I dont think you could be both. Only because wiccas arent usually "evil" they use home remedys to help heal things where vampires, well I dont have to go it to detail.
thank you all for your input I loved all of it but no one has said anything to the few of those who said vampires are black and wiccans are white I realize there is a grey area but if you are both your internal fight between what is right would litteraly rip you apart mentaly and drain you physically
well with the changes going on lately, you can have a few mixes
i met a mormon wiccan
i met a demon vampire
a lycan vampire
and a pagan wiccan
The Wiccan ideal of morality is simple: do what you want, as long as you harm none. This rule contains another unwritten condition: do nothing that will harm yourself. Thus, if you as a wiccan abuse your body, deny it the necessities of life or otherwise harm yourself, your'e in violation of this principle.
bone chiller....I think the point being made is that there is NO black and white.....to say that vampires are evil is to remove freedom of choice.....I drain life energy....be it from plant, animal, or people....but I do not take excessively from any one person...I am not greedy about it....whereas I know I am capable of doing it to a point of possible harm....I choose not to....I exert free will....
good or evil are conceptd foreign to this topic.....it has more to do with moral or immoral....which are much different things from good an evil
not from everyone's perspectice Daer. Moral and Immoral to many people mean good and evil. However backt to the topic at hand and I've said it many times before...
You can be wiccan and still be "evil". I am...the threefold law doesn't matter to me. when I got into wicca a decade ago, no one was all huffy if you weren't a good little wiccan, we followed a basic creed of "harm ye none, but if they piss you off beat the shit out of them"
You people really need to stop reading Ravenwolf
I agree with you NightBlossom lol i like Scott Cunningham better
It all depends on perspective and what a person wishes to follow. Me, I'm a Qabalist who also Studies THeurgy, which is Ceramonial High Magic, Yet, I'm also a Vampyre, yet, just because I am what I am, doesn't mean I should be avoided like the black plague. I don't summon demons, I don't hurt people through what I study, when it comes to feeding, I only feed off of on person and thats my Donor, who, she is, willing to let me take a little of her life energy to help sustain me.
In the end we are all feeding off of something, just, we happen not to kill what we feed from... well most of us anyways.
Thank you once again Daermon. So I can study Wiccan AND be a vampire. Since I'm a psy. Awesome.
~Morgana~
Well, I was brought up wiccan, and like a lot of people, i discarded my childhood faith, I am a vampire through and through and have been for a very long time.
yes littleblackheart.....iun my opinion anyways....it has more to do with how the power is used.....thats where the threefold law would come into play....
and well there are different types of wiccan after all....not all of them are happy happy fairy wiccan vegan hippy's
My friend lauren, she has been wiccan for years now, but she is also a vampire, it is possible, because it exists, thats how i feel
some ppl on here are pagens. i know i am. thats the widest used word for ppl that use magick. what some ppl get confused about is that all wiccans are pagens but not all pagens are wiccans
i really dont know what to say but ......i am a mix of three...wiccan,vampire, and lycan....and yes i am literally ripping my self apart.....but i make it all work somehow......i am not the only wiccan,vampire,lycan mix on here my sister is also one......we always get asked "how do handle being a vampire and needing blood ??? being a wicca and needing nature ??? and being a lycan when you need meat most of the time??" we just tell them we just have our own little ways that we can not explain .... but i would say this one thing ....being all three is the hardest thing i have ever had to handle in my lifetimes before but i am making it so far...*knocks on wood*
Bonechiller is exactly right, but there is one mistake in what he said, and it was spelling the word Pagan... sorry, I have a nach for fixing peoples spelling...
i think its possible but not very common. i think its more unwanted from wiccan point of view. i mean i am a vamyre but does it stop me from looking into wicca? dont think so
As has been previously said, it depends on your moral views on both things, and whether they then fit together or not.
Im a vegetarian, and some people may think that for this reason I shouldn't be on this site, or ave te views on vampirism that I do... but life isn't as consistant as we would always like :-P
they can claim to be something doesnt mean its true....but it can go against being a wiccan....so it doesnt make any sense but thats what they believe so....
The question is something worth thinking about. Really it all has to do with they way you look at it. Still, it is a good question.
geez many ppl say "i am a vampire"
and just a few of them are right
in my opinion alot of these people are just faking anyway. if you want to know the answer to that though my freind bleedingbloodymary on here studies wicca and im sure shed be happy to help you out.
There's an old saying "What you are isn't always what you do."
Just because of the state you are in, doesn't mean it's not the state of what you want to do.
You have a human, "but what do you do?"
exactly the same thing. "You are a vampire, but what do you believe in?"
It would be silly for a human to say "I believe in being human." Come now, though people would say that, it is not the core of their beliefs.
I am a vampire who believes in the elementals, Gods and Goddesses. At least they understand when an animal has to hunt and feed.
Just my two cents.
I have never understood how people can claim to be both vampire and wiccan. Regardless how one may try to justify it they go against each other, maybe alot of people need to get a life and quit pretending.
well i am not a vamp but i do study wicca I have always been interested in vamps but i am to much in wicca
Well, I'm definitely a pagan but not a Wiccan. I enjoy pain and blood way too much! Although some of my beliefs may fall under that grouping.
Yes, Wicca is White and Vamps are black. It would be very difficult to be both.
I think you could possibly be both,if you did not kill, did not harm your prey in anyway and gave them something , or gave up something. It would be a very tiny tightrope to walk if it were possible
Ok this is a stretch but it may make you think a little bit. I am not any one thing therefore I can look at things from a different perspective. There are those that claim they are christain but yet they have premarital sex and isnt that aginst the christain law? now as far as psy vampirism i dont see it as being aginst the wiccan law, its the transporting of energy from one person to another, i have always thought that wiccans do use energy from nature and well humans are part of nature as well. I have a wiccan friend and because I have so much energy and he can easily harness my energy he uses me a lot for various things, and I have no problem with it at all cuz i have more than enough to give to others. But if you really think about it, no person who has a particular faith really follows their faiths rules completly because there are flaws in humans as well as flaws in different faiths. But then again there are those who say things like I'm wiccan and really arent just as well as ppl saying im a vampire even though they arent.
good thought. i must say I do have to agree. everyone has flaws. along with what religion you follow. i see no harm in being a vampire and following wiccan religion. i do see the differences, but as stated before cause no harm.....
What a bunch of hypocrites. The same folks that say that "Black" and "White" magic are two sides of the same coin, and just a point of view, are the same ones claiming Vampires are Black and Wiccans are White, and never the twain shall meet.
The discussion is moot and the horse has been beaten enough already.
This thread is closed for length.