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AngelCutz
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21:34:41 Aug 10 2005
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Okay for as long as I have been hearing about Wiccans and witches and such I have heard that the spells they do come back to them. I have heard they come back 3 fold but I have also heard they come back 10 fold....which one is it??




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LadyLoveCat
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21:37:54 Aug 10 2005
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3 fold.........Read the Wiccan Rede.......


Bide within the Law you must, in perfect Love and perfect Trust.
Live you must and let to live, fairly take and fairly give.

For tread the Circle thrice about to keep unwelcome spirits out.
To bind the spell well every time, let the spell be said in rhyme.

Light of eye and soft of touch, speak you little, listen much.
Honor the Old Ones in deed and name,
let love and light be our guides again.

Deosil go by the waxing moon, chanting out the joyful tune.
Widdershins go when the moon doth wane,
and the werewolf howls by the dread wolfsbane.

When the Lady's moon is new, kiss the hand to Her times two.
When the moon rides at Her peak then your heart's desire seek.

Heed the North winds mighty gale, lock the door and trim the sail.
When the Wind blows from the East, expect the new and set the feast.

When the wind comes from the South, love will kiss you on the mouth.
When the wind whispers from the West, all hearts will find peace and rest.

Nine woods in the Cauldron go, burn them fast and burn them slow.
Birch in the fire goes to represent what the Lady knows.

Oak in the forest towers with might, in the fire it brings the God's
insight. Rowan is a tree of power causing life and magick to flower.

Willows at the waterside stand ready to help us to the Summerland.
Hawthorn is burned to purify and to draw faerie to your eye.

Hazel-the tree of wisdom and learning adds its strength to the bright fire burning.
White are the flowers of Apple tree that brings us fruits of fertility.

Grapes grow upon the vine giving us both joy and wine.
Fir does mark the evergreen to represent immortality seen.

Elder is the Lady's tree burn it not or cursed you'll be.
Four times the Major Sabbats mark in the light and in the dark.

As the old year starts to wane the new begins, it's now Samhain.
When the time for Imbolc shows watch for flowers through the snows.

When the wheel begins to turn soon the Beltane fires will burn.
As the wheel turns to Lamas night power is brought to magick rite.

Four times the Minor Sabbats fall use the Sun to mark them all.
When the wheel has turned to Yule light the log the Horned One rules.

In the spring, when night equals day time for Ostara to come our way.
When the Sun has reached it's height time for Oak and Holly to fight.

Harvesting comes to one and all when the Autumn Equinox does fall.
Heed the flower, bush, and tree by the Lady blessed you'll be.

Where the rippling waters go cast a stone, the truth you'll know.
When you have and hold a need, harken not to others greed.

With a fool no season spend or be counted as his friend.
Merry Meet and Merry Part bright the cheeks and warm the heart.

Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.
When misfortune is enow wear the star upon your brow.

Be true in love this you must do unless your love is false to you.

These Eight words the Rede fulfill:

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"



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AngelCutz
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21:40:28 Aug 10 2005
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wow thanx!



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Blackpegasus69
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21:41:47 Aug 10 2005
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3 fold



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LadyLoveCat
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21:41:50 Aug 10 2005
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No problem, dear.



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21:44:19 Aug 10 2005
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It's 3. Because this should have been put 3 sections lower.



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LadyLoveCat
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21:57:40 Aug 10 2005
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ToiletDuc, be nice.........even though you're right.



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22:01:45 Aug 10 2005
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That's about as far towards "Nice" as my meter goes right now, for the most part. Should've heard some of the ideas before I nudged it over that last little bit. :)



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vamp91
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22:01:51 Aug 10 2005
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i dont which one it is i think its 3 fold atleast that is what i was told



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lordvampirio
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22:04:00 Aug 10 2005
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three fold



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Angitia
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22:04:30 Aug 10 2005
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Definitly three fold



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Cancer
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22:30:19 Aug 10 2005
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Wicca is wrong.

It's not 3, it's not 10.

It's 10³... Hense all the confusion.



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LadyLoveCat
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22:32:33 Aug 10 2005
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Where did you get that from, Prince?



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xBeautifulxNightmarex
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22:52:51 Aug 10 2005
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As far as I know, it's 3 fold. But I'm not Wiccan, I wouldn't know for sure. xxx



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LadyLoveCat
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22:56:10 Aug 10 2005
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I'm not Wiccan, either. I'm Pagan.



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lenoresprettycorpse
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23:13:32 Aug 10 2005
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its 3 and it always been 3



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SaphyrEyes
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23:16:08 Aug 10 2005
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there is no such thing a a 10 fold it dont add up but the 3 fold...yes there is that. but i have known to see a 9 fold effect only if it truly severe case.

One of my ex's had that privilage of getting 9 fold , but not by me, karma saw it to, being the thing to do, after he hurt me to a point that i almost didnt return from.

the list as follows:

1. he lost me.
2. he lost his mother.
3. his band broke up.
4. he lost the apt we were in. (after i left him)
5./6./7. he lost 3 jobs (fired)
8. he lost the rights to his daughter.
9. he had a mental breakdown
(ie lost his mind for a while)

so yeah, there is a 3, 6 and 9 fold effect when it comes to karma and her ways.

trust me, you dont want to have the 9 fold effect, its not good. believe me.



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LadyLoveCat
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23:32:38 Aug 10 2005
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Coincidence?



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Angitia
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23:32:40 Aug 10 2005
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Umm Prince,, Where in the world did you come up w/ that? And what this about wicca being wrong? No disrespect I am just curious. If your saying wicca is wrong cause its bad or whatever,, Well I am proud to be a witch. Again I mean no disrespect.



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darkflame
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23:41:47 Aug 10 2005
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The Rede says 3



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NiennaAncalimon
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23:46:47 Aug 10 2005
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It is three, because in all that I have study almost everything comes in threes.



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LadyLoveCat
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23:47:46 Aug 10 2005
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Wiccan ABC's

Accept others as they are, we are all individuals.
Belief in yourself is a necessity.
Concentration is important in any endeavor, both magical and in life.
Do what you will, so long as it harms none.
Empathy is an important life skill...learn it, practice it.
Find strength in yourself, your friends, your world and your actions.
Goddess/God's are multifaceted - The Lord and Lady take many names
and faces.
Help others every change you get.
Intelligence is something that cannot be judged on the surface.
Judge not - what you send out comes back to you!
Karma loves to slap you in the face, watch out for it.
Learning is something that should never stop happening!!!
Magic is a wonderful gift, but it is not everything!
Nature is precious, appreciate it and protect it.
Over the course of time, your soul learns many lessons. Make this
life count!!!
Pray
Quietness both physically and mentally restores the soul, meditate
often.
Remember to take time for yourself as well as others.
Spells can help you, but you must also help yourself.
Tools can only do so much, they are not the foundation of all. You
are the most important tool to use!!!
Unless you enjoy worrying, keep a positive attitude.
Visualize the success of your goals before you set out to achieve
them.
Wisdom can often be found in the least unexpected places.
Xenophia (a hatred of those different from you) is a path to misery.
You are a beautiful person who is capable of anything!!!
Zapping away all of your troubles is not going to happen.



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MistressofBeltainne
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00:01:39 Aug 11 2005
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I like the ABC's! They are up on my wall...



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SaphyrEyes
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00:07:19 Aug 11 2005
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well yes the rede is 3 but karma has 2 others up her sleeve, so i just want to tell all to be wary of them, thats all.



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00:13:28 Aug 11 2005
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They've shown that energy is a form of matter. Why not magical energy too. And matter cannot be created nor destroyed, only moved and changed. So just think, every time those of you who believe in the threefold rule get 3 times the good energy back from something, that's 2 times what you start with that you stole from someone else.



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AngelCutz
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00:53:58 Aug 11 2005
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thank you for all your posts...and sorry about putting this in the wrong place, i still havent found my way totally around this site yet sorry guys.



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dirtylawngnome101
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01:01:49 Aug 11 2005
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i am not wiccan but i have always wanted to learn more about it (one of my best friends is).....im learning from her



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AngelCutz
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01:37:48 Aug 11 2005
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yea i have a freind that is wiccan, im christian so i dont think i will convert or anything but i just like to know my different options and stuff. im very open minded.



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sonik
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01:47:20 Aug 11 2005
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i think 3



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mistertricky13
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01:51:17 Aug 11 2005
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3 fold...of course, it really doesn't make any difference if you don't care. I am kinda split on the law of three, since I have a cold black heart with a bavarian creme center.



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AngelCutz
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02:07:39 Aug 11 2005
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mmm bavarian creme....*starts to drool* i wonder what it would be like to...never mind



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poisonkitty13
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02:26:57 Aug 11 2005
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It's the Law of Threefold. But nine is also considered magickal because it's 3squared



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MannyBebop
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02:42:32 Aug 11 2005
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wow three ? just like three in some native american cultures is a lucky number (correct me if im wrong) and just like the three in the holy trinity @_@ so cool we all tie in to each other yet its sooooo difficult to become as one .... AWESEOM THREAD! you makey me thinky ^_^



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StarryEyesSixx
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04:24:55 Aug 11 2005
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Thank you for posting all that info. I knew it was 3. Awesome thread.



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Daermon
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05:45:28 Aug 11 2005
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well I tend to study various differing occult paths....and the only one that really stressed 3 is wicca.....and in some instances the golden dawn...
but really threefold..tenfold it doesn't matter....the point is if you do evil that comes back to you....if you do good....the same applies



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slainbaby
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05:49:58 Aug 11 2005
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very interesting thread indeed , nice to get all this extra information, i had only known it simply 3 fold as a pagan told me last night, but now i know more, yay for me.



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vamp91
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05:55:08 Aug 11 2005
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it doesnt matter wether you are witch or not whatever you do good or bad will come back on you 3 times 3



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anarchy101
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06:23:44 Aug 11 2005
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Yes 3 fold but I can see wher they culd make the mistake cuz 10 fold is just a more comon phrase



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janiebug
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06:36:39 Aug 11 2005
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3 and i dont have to explain cuz that chick in the beginning explained it very well



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fallenangelV
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06:36:51 Aug 11 2005
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Yes a spell can come back on a witch and its 3 but it doesntmatter wether you are a witch or just a plain normal person what you do good or bad will come back on you 3 times 3 no matter who you are



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Kiros
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07:22:34 Aug 11 2005
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I have always been under the impressiong that it was three fold, but my teacher was a little loopy so there is a great deal of things that she taught me that I have found wrong. Silly woman.



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NightBlossom
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07:30:11 Aug 11 2005
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Here's a brilliant idea. Why don't you just forget about the laws? Your magick will work better when you drop the PATHETIC superstitious doubts and just practice.



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RedQueen
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07:40:50 Aug 11 2005
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I always thought that it was good came back to you times three, and evil came back to you times 10-but hey, I'm just a superstitious bartender...lol



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NonMortusEst69
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09:04:32 Aug 11 2005
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*do want you want as long as you don't harm others, Whatever you do comes back to you 3 times 3 times 3



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NiennaElensars
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09:17:09 Aug 11 2005
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I have always heard that if you do a spell towards someone for a good purpose and a good reason, it comes back 3X on you. If you have wronged someone with a spell and used it for your own methods to cheat, decieve or anything along those lines, it comes back 10X Fold on you.



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LordActon
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09:33:51 Aug 11 2005
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it's 3



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silvermoon
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09:44:43 Aug 11 2005
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Simply put, what you do good or bad will come back to 3 times 3. That does not only apply to wiccans but also everyone else.



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NiennaElensars
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09:50:04 Aug 11 2005
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Anything come back come back to hurt you in the end.



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deathnitegrl
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09:55:51 Aug 11 2005
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It's 3 but it can be also 9,I've heard of that.

Anyway what goes around comes around,but not for everyone.



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NiennaElensars
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09:58:54 Aug 11 2005
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Eventually they will pay the price for their actions.



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BurningSoul
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10:09:32 Aug 11 2005
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as a Wiccan, i believe in the 3 fold law. everything you do, comes bacjk to you thrice times over. but who is to say that there cannot also be a rule where it comes back to you 10 times over, depending on how good or bad the action may be. but i have to complement Prince for 10 to the power of 3. it is a very curious idea!*smiles cheekly



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NiennaElensars
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10:26:13 Aug 11 2005
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Hmmm.. Makes you wonder to tell you the truth..



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midnight
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11:16:32 Aug 11 2005
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3 fold 0r 9 fold no such thing as 10 fold if your not messin with black magic nothin should come back on you anyway



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michelin
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15:31:18 Aug 11 2005
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I know that in Satanisem there is that it will came back 10 time. But in wicca I don´t know:/



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15:38:08 Aug 11 2005
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all i knows is you get more back then you give so be carfull what you give



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AnightsShadow
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16:25:30 Aug 11 2005
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My friend is Wiccan, so she answered this for me, and said 3 fold



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jadenraine
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16:30:21 Aug 11 2005
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3 fold, I think the ten thing comes from an Asian based religion. *shrugs*



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darkslave
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18:05:05 Aug 11 2005
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I personally have always thought that 3 and 10 were just general numbers used in the law and there is really no actual number when it comes to the laws of karma. I don't know thats just my opinion on the matter but as far as the wiccan rule it I've always heard it to be 3 fold but......who came up with that idea? Man or Gods and Goddess's? To tell you the truth, most rules are flawed because man wrote them, no matter how wise the man is.



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Angitia
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18:07:04 Aug 11 2005
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Ok after thinking about this topic ,, I came up w/ this and it's my theory so believe as you will.

it can go either , most things it is 3 fold, but some have set protections with a 10 fold return of what was sent at you. suggested adding "as karma/dharma sees fit" that way you leave the actually rate of return up to karma/dharma

most stuff is how you look at it, although i do believe some things are right or wrong, but usually those are clear cut.

Basically it is how it feels to you.



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lothrin
lothrin

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18:12:14 Aug 11 2005
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its three fold if your a wiccan or 10 if your what ever relidgon belives in 10. its up to you what it is, im not even sure it exsist and iv been doing magick for 4 years



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FraterRath
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20:17:17 Aug 11 2005
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come on people. any form of the "law" you so like to believe in, only works if you DO believe in it. when i first got into magick every freakin "witch" or occultist would warn me "dont do anything bad cause it'll come back at youuuu".
and you know what. for some gullible reason, and being new to magick, i believed em. so if i did something bad, something bad would happen to me.
then i got into chaos magick. where basically beleif is viewed as a tool to be used. and you know what? i threw out all the 3-fold law crap (not to be offensive it is a noble idea...but it doesnt have to affect you). and because i dont believe in it, it doesnt affect me. for instance, when i was working at a casino up north. one of my coworkers pissed me off, so i did a sigil that i wouldnt have to work with them anymore. well guess what. the guy happened to be in his 50's and was an alchoholic. and you know how he ended up not working with me anymore. he got liver cancer. not very nice huh....you think it came back at me?...NOT AT ALL. in fact. about two weeks later, i even got offered a job making 35 grand a year....gee that sounds like something bad...please.
the only way any sort of law governing what you do works,....is because you believe in it.
do what you want...i'm not telling you to change. people can believe what they want. but seriously. change your paradigm for a day. you'd be amazed how few "thruths" there are....NONE at all in fact. truth is perception. so if you percieve the law affects you. it does. Period.
-in chaos, contra lux



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thedarkx
thedarkx
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20:19:41 Aug 11 2005
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3 fold..



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gothicavenger
gothicavenger

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22:16:16 Aug 11 2005
Read 813 times

3



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Angitia
Angitia

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01:00:07 Aug 12 2005
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Ok prince I understand what your saying , But I am not doing spells that harm others or me. I am only doing spells, rituals etc to help me and maybe some one I care for..I do not use wiccan as a harming tool...



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ellie
ellie

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01:21:29 Aug 12 2005
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hmmm looks like most people think 3..idk i am not wiccan



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NightBlossom
NightBlossom
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03:27:17 Aug 12 2005
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To cancer


My post was generated annoyance at the forum post and the numerous other times I've seen once like it. It was not meant to sound violent or self destructive



To everyone else.


Stop reading SilverRavenwolf and you'll find that in Wiccan beliefs for modern times the three fold law works both ways.

to quote the wiccan rede:

"Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good."

as Cancer stated this is simply poetry.

In wicca, when you send something out it basically comes back to you times 6.

3 times bad

as well as

3 times good.

So in other words, if you're a wiccan, and you cast a spell for whatever, it'll come back BOTH ways.




As I was saying before, about throwing rules out the window, the three fold laws to me were always a "confidence" breaker. I was afraid that something bad would happen. When I got over that, good things started happening ONLY.



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bloodykisses24
bloodykisses24

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04:19:17 Aug 12 2005
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Wicca recognizes the Law of Three
Which states that this return is triple



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deathbeforelifegirl
deathbeforelifegirl
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04:27:34 Aug 12 2005
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it is 3



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NightBlossom
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06:51:59 Aug 12 2005
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okay we all realize that it's three,


now would someone please just rip this thing?



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janiebug
janiebug
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06:54:47 Aug 12 2005
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yes well im dirtylawngnomes best bud lol sooo I LOVE U MACE LOL



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Kiros
Kiros

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10:06:15 Aug 12 2005
Read 736 times

As time goes on, I keep realizing that I know absolutely nothing about the Universe. Mortals are egotistical and arrogant--and I am not always different. How are we to know the payback for deeds we do? It may be three fold, it may be ten fold, it may be 1000 fold. Or, most likely, these are just ways for the deities to make us understand. I don't really think a god figure, in my case the "Goddess" (although, as I said before, I think this is just a way for me to "understand" so that I don't crack my head open trying to actually figure out the entity I am dealing with), is actually going to sit down and start calculating how much punishment or reward you deserve. It will just occur. It will just be.

I'm sorry that this is kind of a vague answer, but, unfortunately, the Universe is nothing but vagueness to a mortal--vampire or not. Unless one of you actually rules the Universe, there's no way of knowing what actually occurs.



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10:22:35 Aug 12 2005
Read 733 times

Excellent Kiros. One of the very few intelligent responses I've seen on this thread. Kudos.



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Angitia
Angitia

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12:41:38 Aug 12 2005
Read 726 times

I agree w/ NightBlossom I am starting to get annoyed and angry..RIP this Topic..



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Aleks
Aleks
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12:41:51 Aug 12 2005
Read 725 times

Or we're all just germs on a big apple asking ourselves questions too deep for reality ... What if man is purely physical and his spiritual side is just chemicals toying with his mind . Ask of the meaning of life and such but you will still die when your heart stops beating or you stop breathing . There may be a greater power there to reward or punish you but you won't know until you see it yourself . The best you can do is to be prepared ... 3 or 10 .. doesn't matter ... what will be will be ...

That was soooo atheistic of me :D



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•  Closed by Cancer on Aug 12 2005  •

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