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Who was the first vampire? Caine? Lilith? Lord Ruthven?
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tammy
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07:17:15 Nov 14 2005
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It could be all of the above or none of the above, depending upon how
"vampire" is defined. Whitewolf fiction names Caine as the first. In other rpgs, Lilith is the first. Etymologists
might consider a 1047 CE reference to one "Upir Lichy" as
the first mention of a vampire. Historians might point to the influence
of the Gypsies as they spread across Europe in the 15th and 16th
centuries. Certainly there is a strong similarity between the Gypsy mulo
and the Eastern European vampire. On the other hand, the
literati might look to Polidori's Lord Ruthven as the
inspiration for today's fictional vampire.

I am not sure if this would have been better as a poll ...
but this way you can give your opinion why you say which one you think was the first.....




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vamplastat
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07:28:35 Nov 14 2005
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honestly im not sure either...ill have to do some research and get back to you...sorry...



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breederofhate
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07:28:40 Nov 14 2005
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i cant tell you much about white wolf but i can tell you lillith was hidden from the minds of most and from what i have learned i think she might be the first



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RAAGIOSL
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07:30:21 Nov 14 2005
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We wil never know for sure who was the first. Or will we ever really know where the entity came from. What we can count on is that there is a first, and whatever or whoever it was will return from the "shadows and dust". Then we will know who created us.



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vamplastat
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07:38:27 Nov 14 2005
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im gonna have to go with VladDrakulIV on this one...i think he has a point...



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Masque
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08:03:49 Nov 14 2005
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I think Lilith was the first, but not the Lilith expounded upon by the Christian religion. That particular aspect of the Divine that is Lilith was written about and believed in much before the onset of Christianity... think of Ishtar, Nemesis, Astarte, the Greek Eyrinnes, the Roman Furies, and many others. And those are the ones we have from cultures who used the written language - oral tradition had many more, as can be seen from remains and paintings in old temples and on pottery.



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princedraven
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08:25:53 Nov 14 2005
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i have read so many things that say so many different things so i really dont know if anyone knows for sure



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temptation101
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08:30:47 Nov 14 2005
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I am going to have to go with Lilith.



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darkness85
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09:25:18 Nov 14 2005
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THere has been many legends but keep in mind vampires have always been mentioned in history so I believe lilith was not the first.



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vulcuran2
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09:33:46 Nov 14 2005
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I am going with lilith



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lucioswolfe
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10:43:36 Nov 14 2005
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I'm going to go on a limb and choose someone completely different if that's ok with you Tammy...I'm gonna say I think it was Judas. He was said to have hung himself after betraying christ. I think that he would have been the first to suffer.



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RaChelle
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11:21:54 Nov 14 2005
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i personally like the white wolf story of Caine.



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TLilith
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11:43:31 Nov 14 2005
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As I know from so many things that I read.... the first one was Lilith...... but who can be sure???



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danzig1330
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14:25:58 Nov 14 2005
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I can't say who was first. I also can't see why it matters.



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Arvalin
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15:00:30 Nov 14 2005
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Lillith was around before cain...so i would go with Lillith



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Zakash
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15:16:19 Nov 14 2005
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I don't believe ether of them were. I was always told that the First one was older then all of them, but I really don't know personally. I'll do some research and get back to you.



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tammy
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15:40:29 Nov 14 2005
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sure it is ok Lucios....
i am not sure myself so i was seeing other peoples opinions too so if someone else thinks its is someone else go for it...

and danzig1330
it doesn't really matter...
but i find it intersting to hear others points of view so it matters to me *smile*



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lebiathan
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15:59:22 Nov 14 2005
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Given the Hebrew version (if I remember correctly), Lilith was the first wife of Adam. But in short terms she didn't like the way things were and dumped :p both Adam and God... So God banished her (or exorcised her - whichever you prefer) from paradise. Lilith is then believed to turn into a vampire and the rest (the fall of the arch-angel samael) is known... Caine and Avel "present" themselves later on in (theological) "history".... And Caine is supposed to turn into a vampire due to killing his own brother....

So...given these things some consideration, Lilith is the first "claimed" vampire...However, all that is "theological" and hardly are there any recordings... (make nice fairytails though :p)

Judas is a supposed traitor and hardly has anything to do with vampires (my opinion). Lazarus on the other hand, could be believed to be a vampire, on the basis that he arose from death (even if Christ was responsible for bringing him back from the dead).

Well, whitewolf's stories happen to be very interesting... In some cases Longinus is the first Vampire (Longinus is the person who held the "spear of Destiny" with which he pierced Christ while on the Cross). However, whitewolf clearly states on her books (check it, it's in the back of the frontpage usually) that most of the content is fictional and requests that it is used by mentally healty people... ;)



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Freakshow1313
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16:11:24 Nov 14 2005
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Ii think it wasn't a person at all. Maybe some sort of dark being or energy it has to be more primal than just man. I dobut very much that one day a man or a woman could just wake up and be the first. Could they?



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theblairwitch
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17:40:27 Nov 14 2005
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I don't know. I have heard stories about Lilith but I am unsure. I mean I don't believe in the Bible so where does that lead me?



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vampirephoenix
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23:26:06 Nov 14 2005
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What everyone Forgets is White Wolf used historical stories and built on them. And As I believe Lilithu was the first.



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mykill
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00:58:21 Nov 15 2005
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i would have to say lilith. she was the first wife of adam, made from the mud in the garden of eden



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lucioswolfe
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01:03:15 Nov 15 2005
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I dont think it would have been lilith...As I have always heard and read...the rumor has it that it was an individual who turned his back on God...And the only one I see that really betrayed god was judas when he acted against christ and began the cycle of his death.



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lucioswolfe
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01:03:30 Nov 15 2005
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all for 30 pcs. of silver



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LadyAmandaofNoctemAeternus
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01:13:21 Nov 15 2005
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not sure



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mykill
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01:18:43 Nov 15 2005
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yes wolf i have heard that as well



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opheliadrowns
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01:30:55 Nov 15 2005
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i personally find it surprising that so much of the basis of determining who was the first of our kind is through reading theological stories...i believe that they are simply that, stories so i would not tend to use them as my basis in theories...to me it seems that there have always been both good and evil, dark and light on this earth...this being my belief, i feel that the basis of the vampire came long before the belief in Adam, Lilith, Caine or Avil...we have always been here and will always be here



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jdenoyon
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02:05:57 Nov 15 2005
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Masque makes a valid point... And perhaps we need to consider pre-recorded history, further back than even oral history. Perhaps we were here before even language was established...

lol Imagine a cro-magnon or neanderthal vampire! lol



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Kiros
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02:16:36 Nov 15 2005
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I am not entirely sure if any of the western figures can be considered the first vampire because there are more vampiric legends in the Far and Middle East. Kali, the goddess of Death, could be considered a sort of a vampire as well as the Kyon Shii of Japan.

So, perhaps, a single figure is not the progenitor of vampires, but whole groups of individuals acting as our progenitors. But as to the indentities of these Ancients, I have no idea. More research is required--and a great deal of knowledge is still unaccounted for.



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Daermon
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07:19:07 Nov 15 2005
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count chocula damnit



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deathnitegrl
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11:58:32 Nov 15 2005
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None of them cause for me they are just myths.

I think the first vampires were common & non famous people.



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vamplastat
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15:58:11 Nov 15 2005
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i have searched through the texts i have and so far i have not found anything leadint to a conclusion of who was first...i beleive that we will never know who was the first vampire unless he comes back from his grave and tells us....



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deathnitegrl
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16:01:44 Nov 15 2005
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Why it has to be someone that ''everyone'' has heard of?

Couldn't they be just normal people?

And how could the first ones know what they are?Cause for them they would belive they are like the rest.



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SomnolentSimacrulum
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19:28:17 Nov 15 2005
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Vampirism is somewhat common in tribal societies. I would suggest that it is prehistorical.



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ArchangelRadiant
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19:42:04 Nov 15 2005
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very interesting



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DJBlight
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19:47:25 Nov 15 2005
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lebiathan

To make a correction. Yes, Lillith was banished fromt he Garden of Eden, however she was not cursed to Vampirism as Caine was, she was cursed to become more like her beast like nature and was said to be beautiful from the waist up but a hideous monster below the waist. She's more closely related to succubi and naga than vampires.



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tammy
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23:50:53 Nov 15 2005
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lol lol lol Daermon... i think you might be right lol



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vampirecronicles
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06:37:35 Nov 17 2005
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i dont think anyone will ever know.maybe it was someone else besides Caine, Lilith, or Lord Ruthven. it might have been someone unknown. someone lost in the archives of vampires.But how did the first vampire came to be? Was he or she born human and turned vampire? or Was he or she born vampire?



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notyoursaviour
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09:25:31 Nov 17 2005
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The true first vampire is probably someone who remained hidden from history for their entire existence.



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sonik
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10:02:36 Nov 17 2005
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fine thread do by miss tammy :)

this question is very difficult to answer maybe caine maybe lilith who said ? ....

i have do lot of research and this question " the orign of vampirism "

and at the final i think the story of vampire be much more remote than it's imagined
...

long time before juda , dracula vlad tepes and lot of stuff tell here ...



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vampsrock
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12:58:31 Nov 17 2005
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my parent has a few vampire books and she is wicca but she is telling me that she thinks caine was the first vampire but he is like a 1 or 2 year ago thing cause of the games but alot of what i think is that he was the first that went into a church and killed about 2 priests and a silver knight and so i believe he was 1 of the most powerful from the 3..but thats an opinion...



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BeshadowedChild
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13:34:17 Nov 17 2005
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Who was the first vampire really depends on where you come from. Nearly every country (especially superstitious ones) have a legend of the "first vampire"



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sonik
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15:19:02 Nov 17 2005
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very good answer ... :) and you have totally right on this point one cookie for u



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deathnitegrl
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15:20:32 Nov 17 2005
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Hehe yeah cause after all we don't have proves.



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DamagedRose
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16:11:55 Nov 17 2005
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We can't be absolutly sure who was the first. I personally like to believe it was Lilith



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Sidhe
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16:18:28 Nov 17 2005
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I do not believe there was a first. As with anything that is considered a myth shared across many places there are so many different ideas as local myth expands so too did your vampire myth. The vampire as we know it today is quite different from the vampires of ancient folk lore do to the over mediazation of the myth. Digging up grandpa and staking him just wouldn't be romantic enough a tale to tell, even though, it stil occurs in some of the "older" parts of the world.



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tammy
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00:15:14 Nov 18 2005
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hey sonik do i get a cookie for starting the thread lol *smile*

i like all the answers everyone is giving....
i was not sure myself...lol and still not sure either but it intersting to hear everyones point of view...



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SorrowsMadness
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01:59:38 Nov 18 2005
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Who really knows? There is so much false information about vampires out there that you wouldn't know what to believe and what no to believe. I personally believe that it was Lilith, but to each their own.



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ForbiddenTemptation
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03:21:52 Nov 18 2005
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Lilith was the first vampire to all demons, She had to be the first vampire Lilith was the first wife to Adam before EVe. Liliths evil made her into a vampire, This has not been documented in the bible



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BloodBaby
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05:21:14 Nov 18 2005
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You might think i,m crazy ,but i think Jesus was the fisrt vampire.It would explain all of his "miracles". It sais that he whispered in the ears of the ones he healed.Then in a couple of minutes they were perfectly healed.what he did actualy
is bite them bon the back of there ears



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lonewolf666
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06:23:02 Nov 18 2005
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not sure



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Vampiress757
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11:57:29 Nov 18 2005
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I'd go with Lilith.. legend tells us that she was actually the first woman created by GOD but she was thrown out of Eden because she was "unsubmissive".. and then GOD created Eve..

Lilith, being consumed by anger and hatred cursed all of the descendants of Adam and Eve.. swearing she will take revenge by preying upon their offsprings and their offspring's offspring, etc.



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tclcttb
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12:17:34 Nov 18 2005
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Yay, my first forum post!

I've always liked the thought of Lillith... problem being that then I'd have to believe in the bible/ torah. Going historically, I guess the cop out would be Vlad Dracul and other such Romanian/ Eastern European legends.



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enchanted1369
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12:21:33 Nov 18 2005
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judis was the first after he killed himself for betraying christ is punishment was to live forver at night



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sonik
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12:52:18 Nov 18 2005
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lol tammy i will make my special french cookie for you * give a cookie to tammy

yes , you have right very interresting answer here ...

but for some it s need argumentation on the subject ...

but a think it's sure dracula was not the first vampire lol ...

and for the rest it's a great debate lol when a man tell before orign is different according where you live ....

lot of myth and mythologie ...

for find the real true you have to search a little more all
héhéhéhéhé ....



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DrowVampire
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16:20:07 Nov 18 2005
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Lillith was said to be Adam's first wife, but she liked jewels alot more than Adam.

She was cast out but still immortal, had sex with demons, giving alot of births per day. god cursed her by promising her that 1000 of her offspring will die per day.



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Foley
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22:43:49 Nov 18 2005
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I think Caine is because he got cursed by God and he could pass that curse on to people he wanrted to be vampires.



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Meritet
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04:09:28 Nov 19 2005
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I think that the 'first' vampire can be anyone you relate to the most. Of all the examples given, which vampire can you relate to the most? Pick that one, and let she/he be the 'first' for you.

Since nobody, thus far, can really answer the question to any real satisfaction...

... someone suggested Count Chocula. (?) LOL!!!! I love that!



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vampirecronicles
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04:26:07 Nov 19 2005
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i was the first vampire i am more than 6 centuries old. count chocula was the second. i turned him into a creature of the night



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skellum
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08:39:32 Nov 19 2005
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to be honest i am not sure



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Gnikcohs
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12:12:01 Nov 19 2005
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..none of them...



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tammy
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15:16:34 Nov 19 2005
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if it is none of them Gnikcohs....


who is it?



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sonik
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16:41:26 Nov 19 2005
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héhéhé good question tammy ???

maybe the first one know ;)

a think who make me laught a little lof of you are based on vampire compared to the bible and god history ...

if you open your mind a little don' t you think it s can possible it 's be more older than the story of the bible ....

when people tell before it s really hard to find the real orign and be sure of what we affirm ....

if it s can help you i have found some different theory on forum on the net with some link ...

I have found a very interesting page, it speculates about the origin
of vampires from an scientific point. Please, bear in mind that your
question is very wide because the legend of vampires exists in almost
any culture, so I think the following link is the right answer to your
question, but of course, are legends and speculations:

Earth Operations Central: Vampyres
http://earthops.org/vampyres.html

The following link contains more information on what you want:

Vampire Mythology and Folklore
http://www.angelfire.com/biz4/vampyreresearch/myth.html


And here is a list of vampires in different cultures:

The Vampire in different cultures
http://www.vampyres.com/content/iwav/content/faq05.html

I hope this answers completely your question.

................................................................


The first reference to vampirism can be found in the work of Lucius Apuleius, a roman writer and philosopher, who lived from 125-180. His novel "De asino aureo" tells the story of the two wicked sisters Meroe and Panthia who drink the blood of Socrates (not the philosopher). They close his wounds with a sponge so that he does not notice his loss, but when the next day he bends over to drink from a river, the sponge drops into the water, the last drop of life flows into the water and Socrates dies.

The name "Vampire" derives from the Slavic language and means something in between "flying being", "drinking/sucking" and "wolf". The version with "y" (Vampyre) came into circulation between 1725 and 1732 and is therefore NOT the original one. In the romantic movement in Europe which was opposed to the former Enlightenment era the vampire became a common theme and moved from country mythology into the elegant salons and castles.

In the middle ages the flea, also a blood-sucker, was called a vampiric being since it was held responsible for the spreading of the plague. The Celts often used to bury their dead with their face downwards. This may derive from their belief that the dead had to enter the "other world" with their face in the right direction. In Eastern Europe it was common to bury the dead with a clove of garlic in their mouth.

Michel Beheim (Deutscher Meistersinger) composes in 1463 a song with the title "Von ainem wutrich der hies Trakle waida von der Walachei" in which he tells the story of Vlad IV Draculea. Benheim was a pheasant of the Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus, at who's court Draculea was a refugee when banned from Walachia.

Dracul (which means dragon, though the Rumanian term for devil is very similar) was the epithet of the Woiwode Vlad II., who was a knight of the order of the dragon. He was the father of Vlad III. "Tepes" (Impaler) (1431-1476), who was the model for Bram Stoker's famous figure Count Dracula. Draculea means son of Dracul, a name which was later shortened to Dracula. In spite of Stoker's novel in Rumanian history there has never been any connection between Draculea and vampirism. In fact because of his successful attempt to drive the Turkish invaders out of Walachia he still is regarded as a national hero. In his short reign he managed to extinct crime in his country. (For more information about the historic figure see "L' histoire du prince dracula" by Matei Cazacu which includes the works of M. Beheim). His home Walachia is part of Transilvania, which means "land beyond the forest". The other name for this area, "Siebenbürgen" is derived from the German language and means "seven castles" and shows how important an efficient defensive system was at the time of Draculea.

One of the few important authors who worked at the topic of vampirism was the French Benedictine monk Dom Augustin Calmet (1672-1757). The German version of his essay is titled "Verhandlung und Erläuterung der Materi, von Erscheinungen der Geisteren, und der so genannten Vampiren, oder zurückgekommene Verstorbenen in Ungarn, Moravia etc." Calmet was working on the differentiation between Vampires and common ghosts and demons. Calmet was a very openminded person who asked himself whether vampires really are dead, how they manage to escape grave and which kind of energy their body needs. He came to the conclusion that in spite of his rather evil nature a vampire is a god-created being. He also said that being a pagan cannot be the reason for becoming a vampire since otherwise all Romans and Greeks who worshipped diverse gods would have become vampires.

Another famous author was Montague Summers ("The Vampire in Europe", first published in 1929) who covers the topic of vampirism from the ancient Greeks through the Middle Ages until modern times through the various countries of Europe.

The English poet Lord Byron (1788-1824) also wrote an unfinished novel about vampires. When Byron in 1816, together with his friend and doctor John William Polidori stayed at the Lake Leman he hosted a party and among his guest were the poet Percy Shelley and his later wife Mary. When a thunderstorm forced the guests to stay inside they gave a competition in writing ghost-stories. At this occasion Mary Shelley started the famous novel "Frankenstein". Byron wrote the mentioned fragment which some years later Polidori used for his novel "The Vampyre, A Tale" who was published in 1819.

At the beginning of the 19th century the vampire also entered the opera-stage with "Der Vampyr" written by Heinrich Marschner, which had it's premiere in Leipzig in 1828.

The figure of Dracula embodies the fascination of the forbidden and is a classical symbolic figure for the repressed sexuality of the Victorian society. He casts no shadow, is as strong as twenty men, owns -because of his blood consumption- everlasting youth and is the master of bat, moth, wolf, rat, fox and owl. He is able to transform into a cloud of dust or vapour, climbs every wall like an insect and commands the elements. The story also says that he can only enter a building if he's invited and has to sleep in a coffin filled with the soil of his home.

Though the crucifix is said to be a successful weapon against the vampire it's effect is only based on the symbolism and on the belief of it's power. (No use in fighting Jewish, Islamic and Hindu vampires..)

The black/red cape which is a common vampiric motive was added by Hamilton Deane in 1924 to symbolize the bat. Bela Lugosi, probably the most famous actor who played the role of Dracula was even buried in his cape.

Dracula first appeared at the theater in 1897 in the play "Dracula, or the Undead" written by Bram Stoker himself. The premiere took place in the Royal Lyceum Theatre in London. A more popular version was the one of Hamilton Deane in 1923. The musical "Tanz der Vampire" is now being played in Vienna.

It's very interesting that the figure of the vampire can be found through so many centuries not only in Europe but also in Asia. Fear is one of the most powerful forces that drive people and the fear of the unknown or mysterious can be found everywhere around the world. The only way to fight the fear is to face it and to realise what people are so afraid of. Yes, we are different and mythology and superstition have created some rather unbelievable stories. Due to this the term "vampire" has so many negative associations. What I am trying here is to help people to overcome their old prejudices, which exist because the only source of information is still very often fantasy literature or film. Sanguinarians exist, not as the glamorous figure of literature or as the fascinating seducer but as normal "human" beings like yourself. Push away what you might have learned about vampires and get to know us. Most of us are better than our reputation.

...............................................................

at the final there are lot of different version find your own one .... ;)

and try to find the real true



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sonik
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16:50:14 Nov 19 2005
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theory for lilith :

In order to prove a common root; legends should become more interwoven the further back in history we go. In other words, stories from different cultures should begin to have similar traits. The story of Noah’s ark is an excellent example. Tales of Global floods are present in many religions outside of Judaism, Christianity, and Islamic. Furthermore, most of these tales are related in that they each tell not only of a great deluge, but also of a limited population of animals and people who survived the catastrophe by some form of divine foreknowledge of it. This worldwide sharing of a common theme between cultures, religions, and peoples would tend to indicate that there existed at one time a root story, which has been handed down through different societies and over time has been altered to fit specific regions.

In researching the legends about vampires a single name surfaces continually like a beacon. That name is Lilith. Lilith is believed by some to be the first wife of Adam, a woman who existed prior to the creation of Eve. The story basically states that Adam and Lilith were each created from dust. Lilith’s dust was dirtier than Adam’s. When Adam approached her for the purpose of having sex, Lilith refused to be subservient to him, questioning why she should be made to lie beneath him. When Adam attempted to force her, she called upon the secret name of God and fled from Eden to the banks of the Red Sea. There, she mated with demons and gave birth to demons until God sent three angels to make her return to Adam.

Lilith claimed that due to the things she had done since leaving him she could not return to Adam. The angels told her that if she did not return to Adam, she would die. Again Lilith argued, stating that she had been created immortal, a being which could not die. The angels then told Lilith that one hundred of her children would be slain for each day that she refused to return to Adam. In response, Lilith vowed to kill one unprotected child for every one of her children that was destroyed. An arrangement was reached and God created Eve for Adam while Lilith became the first vampire and slipped into the role of being Queen of the Demons, alternately seducing men and eating children, and making guest appearances throughout history.

Those who have read the Bible, however, may know that there is no mention of any such person as Lilith in the book of Genesis, although she is mentioned in the book of Isaiah (34:14). There is also no mention of Adam ever having had a first wife. Delving a bit deeper, one may discover a Lilith mentioned in the Midrash. Further investigation will show the recurrence of the tale of the first wife of Adam in the Talmud. For those who are unfamiliar with these books, the Midrash is a collection of Hebrew legends, and the Talmud is a Hebrew text, written by rabbis as a type of written interpretation of oral traditions associated with the Torah. The Old Testament of the Bible is essentially the Christian version of the Torah and therefore the Torah and its associated books become a good resource for researching Biblical mythology.

In returning to our topic, we see repeated in the Midrash the belief that Adam had a wife before Eve. Lilith is never named as this first wife. She is However, mentioned four times in the Talmud as a longhaired demon. Since this is the form that Adams first wife is reported to have taken after leaving him, we can reasonably assume that the two myths have become intertwined over time, making Lilith the first wife of Adam. The belief that Adam had a first wife at all is based on the fact that the creation of man and woman is described twice in the story of creation. The first description, “as man and woman He created them,” varies greatly from the second description, “God formed man from the dust... and the Lord fashioned into a woman the rib, which He had taken from the man.” The reasoning of the rabbis who wrote the Midrash was that the variations in the two descriptions meant that they were actually related to two separate incidents. It is important to note however, that this line of reasoning is flawed by two major arguments.

The first of these arguments is the fact that each of these descriptions tells not only of the creation of a woman, but also of a man. If the rabbis had been correct in reaching their conclusion, then one must assume that God did not merely create one man and two women. The implication would be that God created two women and two men. The second argument involves the fact that both descriptions of creation also explain the populating by God of a planet with plants and animals. To follow the thinking of the rabbis, one must in fact accept the theory that God created not only two men and two women, but also two entire planets, each containing oceans, rivers and atmospheres, and each thriving with life.

So where did the story of Lilith come from and how did it come to be so closely related to the story of creation? The answer to that question comes in understanding a bit about the early Hebrews. The Hebrews believed that their god was the one true God and that all other gods worshipped by their neighboring nations were in fact demons. They incorporated this belief into their teachings by associating the gods of other nations with demons in their own religion. It is in this manner that the Babylonian god Baal becomes Baalzbub (or Beelzebub). The same is true of Lilith. She is not in herself a character relevant to Judaism; she is a fragment of other religions, which was incorporated into Judaic tradition to give name to a demon created out of the misunderstanding of the two parts of the story of creation.

The rabbis drew from a wealth of mythology provided by their Mesopotamian neighbors, primarily the Canaanites, the Sumerians, and the Greeks. Each of these cultures has, in their respective pantheons, a goddess who fits the basic description of Lilith, without the first wife of Adam bit of course. Since we are looking for the roots of the vampire, and not a marital record of Adam, that part of the myth is basically irrelevant to us anyway. It served merely as a platform from which to begin our investigation of the theory of first vampire, which we will continue now by exploring the pantheons of the Mesopotamian neighbors of the Hebrews.



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JessaTremere
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17:04:53 Nov 19 2005
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Eve, Lilith...all have been compared to the first vampyre. To me, I see it as the xtian (this is totally my own opinion btw) way of trying to make women as secondary citizens and manipulate views of women as Succubi by their very nature.

Cain, since in theory is the child of Lilith or Eve by some views, would be the first male vampyre, but not the first entirely. There's far too many instances of other vampyre like myths that predate this.

Lamia for instance was viewed by the ancient greeks as a vampyre like creature.

My two cents...



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RAGEtheSOLDIER
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17:39:47 Nov 19 2005
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you have only given choices of documented vampyres... it is my opinion that there were either vamypres or vampyre-like creature in the BC eras they are just not found or not documented as such



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sonik
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18:14:35 Nov 19 2005
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totally possible too , i m not close to any theory ;)



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lebiathan
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18:25:10 Nov 19 2005
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Lamia is a BC creature....



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bloodlust18
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00:19:57 Nov 20 2005
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i couldnt tell you but i will find out...lol ..maybe there was one before ALL of them that was lost in history



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PrettySamantha
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06:24:15 Nov 20 2005
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i beliebe cain was the first real evil not sure about being a vamp



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Midnite
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18:31:35 Nov 22 2005
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Cain was the first for betraying his brother



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XrazorbladeprincessX
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18:32:58 Nov 22 2005
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None of those were the first vmpire. The first vampire was Raziel.



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vampmark
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22:02:15 Nov 22 2005
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lilith because she came before cane and was already practicing the blood magic before cane had ever found her after he was banished from the garden from killing his brother able



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MyMorbidPinkDreams
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04:00:53 Nov 23 2005
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from what i ahve been told caine and lillith were the first im not sure but i think thats what i was told ill have to check to be sure and tell him to post what he knows becouse he has alot on this subject and could help more than me :) very good thread though



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JessaTremere
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06:57:08 Nov 23 2005
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I only used referenced examples to illustrate my opinion.



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vampmark
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13:37:09 Nov 23 2005
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i drew all of my information from a book.....if i remember right it was the book of nod, but its a book explaining the complete history of the vampyres and their origins



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GrimReaper
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21:09:21 Nov 23 2005
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its nearly impossable 2 tell, b/c the question ur asking is almost the same a "wat came first the chicken or the egg?"



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Raveness
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21:56:54 Nov 23 2005
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Impossible to tell since everything for the longest time was word of mouth and folklore was subject to the tellers recollections of what she/he had been told (and so forth)....even through research would not yield a true answer. Might be better to turn this one into a poll.



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scionofrequiem
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05:58:49 Nov 27 2005
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I say, we will never find out who was the first inflicted with the condition. Just like each person, each aspect of what a person believes what brought us about will be different. So in the end, we will only end up coming to the same spot we are already at.

Clueless to the very beginning of the Condition.

- Sin



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Kaylanna
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08:21:34 Nov 27 2005
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Lilith was the first and the she met Cain who than became the second and so on



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scionofrequiem
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09:28:42 Nov 27 2005
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The Problem with that theory is this, its based off a game called Vampire the Masquerade. Now, I understand their might be similiar theories on this, but as far as I know, the basis of that idea came from White Wolf game studios, and not some unholy book of Vampyrism. And no the book of Nod isn't a religious text to take seriously.

- Sin



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aimee
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I honestly dont know ,but wasnt Lilith mentioned in the bible?



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SethVengen
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12:38:09 Nov 27 2005
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im not sure who the first was but they talked about lillith alot so if i had to choose or guess , id choose lillith.



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the666inside
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14:06:31 Nov 27 2005
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I have no idea, and i am not exactly a research nut.



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Adrianna
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Hmm i'm not sure either i'll have to do some research and get back to you.



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Batchyld
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well now im curious enough i did a google search and found various links ones for white wolf games /aka vampire the masquerade and that game says caine but i found this url and it had alot of ppls research and ideas and alot of good links so heres the url read for yourself but underneath the url im posting 2 entries which i find very much correct in its info no matter how long or short the info given was ...

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=18169

entry 1 that caught my attention is :

Subject: Re: The first vampire
From: suzanne-ga on 27 May 2002 13:20 PDT
Hello!
Wow I wish I would've seen this earlier (I was out of town). I study
vampire folklore. Let me try my shot at best answering your question.
The earliest known vampire is extremely hard to tell, but luckily
through ancient texts, cave paintings, and other forms of historical
documents we can get an idea just how far back vampirism goes. To the
best of my knowledge, noone knows for sure if vampirism was derived
from one human being with a virus or a complete sub-species of humans.

There are some vampire folklore in the realm of Assyria and Babylonia.
The following link will best explain this along with some ancient
texts found.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/goth/vkk/vkk06.htm

There is also the theory and myth of Lilith being the first vampire,
thanks to Hebrew legend. She was seen as being a monster with wings,
clawed feet, and only coming out at night to kill newborn children and
pregnant women.
There is also a piece of pottery that was found dated back to 4000bc
depicting a woman drinking the blood from her lover's chest. As far as
I know, that is the oldest known vampire relic (unfortunately, the
link for showing you the information on the pottery is not working).
There are also cave paintings dating back to 3000bc of "creatures"
holding up skulls with human blood inside of them. These cave
paintings are found in India and Nepal.
The Rakshasas were demons found in the ancient Hindu text called The
Vedas. They were known for feeding off of human flesh. These texts
date back to 1500bc.
I could go on for days if you wanted me to. There is so much vampire
folklore out there.

Here is a variety of vampire legends of ancient times
http://www.parascope.com/en/articles/vampires02.htm

More about Lilith
http://www.darksites.com/souls/vampires/vamponline/lillu.html

A very good description of Vampire Myth and History
http://vampirejunky.8m.com/vamphistory.html

I hope this answers your question. If you need anything more answered
in regards to vampires, I'd be more than happy to answer them.
Take care
Suzanne

and entry 2 is :

Subject: Re: The first vampire
From: noelsmyth-ga on 02 Oct 2004 11:14 PDT
Im not sure but i tink the first Vampire according to the hebrews was
lilith.. Lilith was created by God for adam, but there was an
arguement and she left to torture the world, then God created EVE. *I
think*




---------
now i was born to jewish parents ive since become agnostic ,bordering on atheism lol

and this is the story i know and have heard about lillith....
lillith was adams first wife .but she was cast out due to a big arguement she wanted to be the dominant one during sex and adam wouldnt have any of it .other things transpired and were said and so she left eden and went on her way and befriended dark evil beings known as demons and they worshipped her ,read this entire page and check the urls out within the text ..

i say lillth was the first vampire and she was created by god himself .how ironic is that? LOL



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Cadamia
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13:53:23 Nov 28 2005
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for my own purposes I go with Caine



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VampyreinMo
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14:30:01 Nov 28 2005
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This is just me wondering but i assume that my post was Deleted???

Or there was an error in it being posted...

Oh well.

Ok In most text you read about, Whether it be the bible, mythilogical text, & so on, almost all of them point to Lilith Being the first evil, but even in the bible when caine the son of enoch (adam for the latin impaired lol) Killed his brother he was cast out from Eden Never to step foot there again, 3 times god gave Caine the chance to repent his sins, instead he allowed himself to be seduced by lilith, & as she herself had been "damned" she offered Caine a life of immortality, now, the Bible & most texts I have read usually cut off right there I am going to assume that he made the deal, Because later in the bible they bring word of caine up again, this time "Seeing as god's kingdom in the heart of caine had been lost for Eternity, god cursed caine with 4 curses." Again most of what I have read on the subject ends there with no for sight but i find it interesting that Caine in the Bible when he was cast out was at least 20, yet when he tried to return to the gates to see his father & was turned away he was described as not being more than days older than on that very day god cast him out. So I would have to say caine.



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deadrose
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14:32:47 Nov 28 2005
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i have to go with cain...



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Spookie
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14:48:21 Nov 28 2005
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From what I've studied and read, Lillith was the first vampire. That name, or it's derivative Lilitu, dates back as far as the Sumerian days.



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VampyreinMo
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15:14:58 Nov 28 2005
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And as much as I support Caine as the first, Even I would have to say that, your statement was a very reasonable responce.



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PheaR
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16:07:47 Nov 28 2005
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The ORIGIN (1st) of the PYRES
as listed in The BooK known as ( .d )
was the (gather'n), who's names r listed as 9.
They were the first to begiven the sacrit NAME.
The name of the One they had come to gatherd for, and swor never to delvolge this to those of the outside.
The BooK then tells of the rites and rituals
that sprang forth from this gathering.
Over the years these r & r's were subject to change as the clans spread out.
From these changes the birth of Urban Legons did spring.
And they inturn help the Gatherd to hide amogst the populas.



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Firebender
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20:16:09 Nov 28 2005
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:-?



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Bloodravenlove
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05:34:52 Nov 29 2005
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cain



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scionofrequiem
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07:45:32 Nov 29 2005
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Has anyone ever heard of Sep Tepy? The Creation of Vampyrism?

Might want to look into that.

- Sin



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VampyreinMo
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11:43:15 Nov 29 2005
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I have actually, but I while I see the consepts & understandable evidence that the augmentaion brings forward, I on the other hand will have to say that your post definitly brought a new element to this Forum.



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Masque
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11:48:41 Nov 29 2005
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I have researched Lord Ruthven throughly and he was only a fictional character (though the title actually exists, there is absolutely no connection to vampirism).

This is a good site for anyone who is intereted. However, there are others.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9094/STEAM47.html



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Darknessdude29
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12:51:19 Nov 29 2005
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Depends on what you believe. if you want to go by stoker's point of view Dracula was the first but if you want to go but another view Judas from the bible was the first but I myself perfer that Cain was the first



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VampyreinMo
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11:12:44 Dec 03 2005
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These are alot of really good points, but are there any other beleifs in who the first vampire?



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JamesTheBloody
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14:56:04 Dec 06 2005
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Caine was the first.



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GermzTheWorm
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20:30:50 Dec 06 2005
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vampire myths...date back thousand of thousands of years..and in china their vamp myths predate the bibles lilth and caine..so neither of them could be the 'first' nor could the other one.

if your going to ask who was the first..you might want to ask witch group.. i dont think any 'race' dead or not..could exist with out an begining sizable population to spread out...

any ways enough rambling..i think it was neither



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thumper
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23:27:03 Dec 06 2005
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Caine is the father to all vampier



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Deicide
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16:47:13 Dec 07 2005
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yes well there are definitely some interesting arguments raised...however i would have to tend to agree with the lillith claim



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daggetb
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16:53:42 Dec 07 2005
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i would have to say that Caine is the first to pass on the gift.



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vampirephoenix
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19:06:15 Dec 07 2005
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I've always believed Lilith was the first. And Always will.



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GermzTheWorm
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19:25:41 Dec 07 2005
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how could one person spread it all over the world?



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BrightEyes08
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00:52:42 Dec 08 2005
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I have absolutely no idea



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angelofdarkness1977
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09:45:48 Dec 09 2005
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if i had to choose who was the first vampire out of those i would have to say it is caine, its so obvious..



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scionofrequiem
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12:49:48 Dec 09 2005
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I've been saying this with every "Who was first" post. I do not believe it was the Great Betrayer, yet someone else, someone we would not expect.

Has anyone stopped and wondered if the One God created this condition? Perhaps there is a reason for us on this world, and not as damned beings as what so many people believe.

Also, Sep Tepy, which is another means of how we may have come about.

- Sin



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Batchyld
Batchyld

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13:04:24 Dec 09 2005
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im looking into sep tepy sin ty for the info .im not totally curious hehe



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Batchyld
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13:11:17 Dec 09 2005
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ok heres one url i found .so many urls about sep tepy wasnt sure which was right or accurate info i did a google and well heres one ,its interesting info!

http://www.darkness-embraced.com/php/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=539


and heres another url on sep tepy ,

http://www.horemheb.com/part1.html


and last but not least heres the google url i got when i searched using the term sep tepy:)

http://www.comcast.net/qry/websearch?cmd=qry&safe=on&query=Sep+Tepy&x=18&y=10

happy hunting and enjoy!



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scionofrequiem
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13:13:59 Dec 09 2005
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I came across the idea of Sep Tepy in the Strigoi Vii teachings. Interesting theory, but not sure if I can completly believe in it. Yet it does make the mind wonder, what if.

- Sin



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Batchyld
Batchyld

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13:16:11 Dec 09 2005
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well if the mind didnt wonder or think exstensively on what is before them or was before them in past .our minds might as well be dead hence the rest of us cause without the brain or heart we are all nothing so i dont mind thinking and wondering what was the factual and actual beginnings of what is here now and how it got to where it is i love learning !



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scionofrequiem
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13:21:12 Dec 09 2005
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Learning is a great thing, and I agree with your point of veiw.

- Sin



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Batchyld
Batchyld

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13:26:27 Dec 09 2005
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tyvm sin much appreciated .i like your train of thought as well! you know something did peek my interest but it was in another thread you posted in i think i will go post in reply to it .come follow along for the ride if you like ,nice to have good intelligent company while driving through the thread hehe :)



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Batchyld
Batchyld

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13:28:19 Dec 09 2005
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oops my bad sin it wasnt you who said it but im sure you wouldve im still posting my point to the anne rice thread now lol



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scionofrequiem
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13:31:39 Dec 09 2005
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Why thank you. Its good to be able to chat with others much like you. As for the Ann Rice, she has never been someone I could enjoy when it came down to her writing.

- Sin



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Khayman
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13:35:09 Dec 09 2005
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Lovely discussion, time to go buh-bye.

Thank you.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by Khayman on Dec 09 2005  •

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