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Some people are born Jewish, Christian, ECT. Its in their genes.

Can you be born Goth?

Is it really a sub culture? I believe its so much more.

It is a sub-culture that is annoyingly persistent that is for sure. if people think twilight ruined vampires with its emo-ness then you should see what goths did before that, it was the time when they depicted vampires as wearing all black, long hair and sometimes wearing eyeliner, just as bad as twilight really as it became a fad.


As for your question on whether someone can be born Goth.....doubtful, goth is not a religion but a lifeforbidden, a sometimes unhealthy one at that since there is a few self-harmers and people with suicide thoughts in it, though originally...it was just about music, so those negative kinds are just modern versions.

If you take the fact that most if not all people like some form of music then in a way, a person can be born goth if they happen to enjoy that kind of music from birth.

I disagree that Goth was originally "music". And frankly I think people who say that are absolute degenerates.

Music doesn't come out of the air. It comes from people. From emotion. Sometimes very deep emotion.

I was born Goth.

If that is what you want to believe then so be it but the term goth did not exist until the late seventies so.......


One could be born goth if they were from a few hundred years ago as there were visgoths, they has a part in sacking rome.

Had*

There was another ancient group called goths as well but the full name escapes me.

Point is, that the only way you could be born a goth in blood would be if you were visgoth which were a german tribe that only existed about a thousand years ago, these days the word goth only cropped back up in the late seventies and it was about music, the term was used by a band or some reviewer of a forbidden of music, cannot recall at the moment but now the goth is not just about music anymore, its a sub-culture that has evolved and not in a good way in my opinion. I guess its just like religion in that if mommy and daddy were goths and decided to raise a child in their ways then yes, one could be born a goth, its just how you look at it but the original meaning was about music.

It is indeed about perception. If I was born Goth I have first to find out what's a Gothic inborn character.

Do I like Gothic art, literature, music, horror movies, and Halloween? Yes. Do I like other things? Yes. Do I ever feel I can't fit in? Yes.

I think I have some characteristics that in my perception make me goth. Then I just needed the trigger to let it out and express myself.

I think Goth can be an inborn characteristic, you just need the trigger to let it out. If you are raised, then you don't need any trigger, because you're already taught to express yourself. Then you form your opinion about it. You can stay solo or join the subculture. I don't agree with anyone stating that being raised as Goth is equivalent of becoming Goth, because that means that just because I was raised Christian then I am, but in reality I am not so I can't agree with this thought. I think that even if someone was attracted to the subculture, or only the music, something had to trigger it, because were do tastes come from? Many join the subculture during a particular period in their life, mostly a bad one, and that's their trigger. I don't fully agree about the sadness, but deep emotion often confused with sadness. As for being raised, I see it as part of it, but if one has goth parents doesn't mean they'll follow their path. My parents are the anti-goth, yet I like many things considered goth.

Many threads about Goth have been around and we never had one answer. This one is more deep because it's about the inborn characteristic.

Gothic refers to several things:

The Gothic architecture, and art of Europe, dating back from several centuries, especially in Eastern Europe or Victorian England. If you look at places in Germany, Prague, Romania, Transylvania, and others.

The style of dress that appeared in that age with a blend of the Victorian, as well.

A musical movement grandfathered from a mix of synthpop, punk, electronica, and certain rock styles that evolved from the mid 70's and 80's. As an Elder Goth, I recognise this as such.

Now as far as being "born Gothic" that's not a matter of genes, as it is lifestyle. Same with religion. It's a matter of upbringing and lifestyle. People choose to be Gothic.

I can guarantee you since I am old enough to state this that no one before the mid seventies ever said they were goth or born that way. Goth in "my opinion" came out of a musical interest that evolved over the years into a philosophical lifestyle choice and more than music. It has nothing to do with being "born" a goth if you consider all the years no one ever used the term, other than cultures previously mentioned. You may have been born with a personality that is drawn to that lifestyle and philosophy but nothing more. It is a modern movement from the latter end of the 20th Century and "unfortunately" in my opinion has become entwined into the vampire subculture but they are not the same. Many who consider themselves vampirics are not goth. You will find that the goths from the late 70s are nothing like those who were born in the mid to late 90s and became involved with a goth lifestyle.

Thexdarkness is pretty on point here. There was a forum topic just a few months ago that held a similar conversation. Sorry, but it is about the music. most sub cultures are, even if you look throughout the last maybe 00 years, if it was specifically about the music, then the subculture managed to bring about their own genre of music that became identifiable with that group. Sorry, it's NOT a religion. If you believe it is, you may be the degenerate. (since you like the word so much).


And Inkjunkie is also pretty on point, yes, you can be raised goth. No doubt there, but no, not born.

you can be born into a family with a specific culture and belief system, but to be jewish, christian, muslim, or goth is not something in dna. the religions are about the spritual beliefs someone either acquires over time, or is taught by their family. goth seems to be more about how you choose to present yourself to the world.
~W~

Well, for one, I disagree with your initial statement that people are "born" into a religion. Religion is in no way genetic. Religion is a choice for many, but on an even more basic level religion is culture. We are born with traits and abilities, and potential for traits and abilities. Biology and culture(and it's many aspects) meet and affect us and therefore form who we are(crudely speaking).
I don't believe Goth is involved in genetics, but I believe people are born with the potential to be Goth.

to some extent personality is genetic

not sure how much of an extent or exactly what traits are genetic because the area you live in greatly influences how you act so that part is not clear

so I guess it's not totally impossible for a person to be born with gothic personality traits

religion isn't genetic but from birth you are labeled the religion of your family so in a way you are born with it, even though you can change it

just like social class, when a child is in the womb they can be on Medicaid. If their parents are poor then they are automatically deemed poor and are given government assistance. Although they are more likely to stay poor like their parents but that isn't guaranteed

Not sure if this should be touched with a ten foot long parishioners poll or ravaged and beaten to death with a Visigoths axe.

Goth is an art form i.e. music, a decorative style, and now sadly a lifestyle choice that people choose to ally themselves with so that they can feel like part of a collective that feels no one understands their dark mentality and struggles. No one is born with a predisposition toward a genre of lifestyle such as goth, jock, prep, or geek. People learn early, and adapt to social situations as they evolve around them.

the very first goths were the vikings during the dark ages.believe it or not,Goth was a term used for germans,which were for a period of time kicked out of germany,and became vikings.like modern goths they loved the dark colors,paintings of death,tattoos,and peircings.so in a way i was born goth since my ancestors were german.my last name means man of gravel.

...You were not 'Born' Goth. Unless you had a weapon in your hand barreling out of your mothers womb ready to rape and pillage everything around you. Seriously being a descendant of something doesn't make you THAT thing. I was born of a border jumper, doesn't mean I'm a border jumper. Makes me an American. What's more important finding yourself within the confines of a definitive grouping, or just being happy that you are you regardless of what you or anyone else would label?

Like it or not, we are all defined by the labels that society imposes upon us, good or bad.

History and background:

•"The words Goth and Gothic have had many, largely unrelated meanings in the past: ◦the name of the Germanic Visigoth tribes that overthrew the Roman Empire. From this source arose the concept of a Goth as an uncivilized person, a barbarian.
◦a style of architecture in Western Europe which was popular from the 12th to the 16th century.
◦a style of horror/mystery literature that is dark, eerie and gloomy.

•Goth, as a modern movement, started as one component of the punk rock scene. As the latter faded, Goth survived by creating its own subculture.
•The first use of the term Goth in its present meaning is believed to have been on a British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) TV program. Anthony H. Wilson, manager of Joy Division described the band as Gothic compared with the pop mainstream. The name stuck.
•Their use of black clothing was originally "something of a backlash to the colorful disco music of the seventies." 5 It also stuck.
•The movement first became established in the Batcave, a nightclub in London, England, in the early 1980's. 3
•Spreading to the U.S., it first became popular in California.
•Goth is featured in The Crow horror movies (1994, 1996). Other Gothic movies are the original Nosferatu, the color remake Nosferatu the Vampyre, and the Cabinet of Doctor Caligari.
•Popular music bands are the Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, the Sisters of Mercy, Dead Can Dance, and many others."

From the following link:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/goth.htm

That seems to sum it up and it did spread into California but you would hear the term Death Rocker more than Goth. I didn't pay much attention to either because I considered it a High School kinda thing...sorry. This was something my kids would talk about and actually Middle School before High School, my younger two but they never got involved with that musical style, lifestyle or anything connected. In the schools there were factions and people divided up into them like when my oldest daughter went to school and she is over forty now, they called her a Hessian because she was into metal music. There were always the skaters, hippies and others. When they left middle/high school they sort of left all of that behind. I think the most enduring has been the Goth movement overall.

To bring up a related topic that has come up in the thread. I had four children and I know some interests and personality traits are influenced from family, peer group and the times but I very distinctly noticed that each kid was born with a personality type that was there as a baby. My first was high strung and the next one was very easy going, etc. I think this base thing influences what will attract them and interests including music and dress over time. Remember there are always those kids that don't find a niche and they aren't influenced by trends at all. I think it is connected to personality. These last few generations are more open to a Goth philosophy and many others and a wider variety of musical genres than when I was young. I still would never get a tattoo or anything pierced more than my ears and before at least the 80s it wasn't that common in general public. It seemed to grow from the 90s and on and the dress some wore. But it is going back more underground and Goth clubs at least in South California are not as prevalent because people have lost interest. They are still around though but as I said, not as plentiful.

im inbetween during new moon to waxing am genrally light but dark side of moon wanning im always in black I don't consider myself goth at all just explaining my clour persona

I don't think you can be born into a style and state of mind, no. You need to experience life to find your comfort zone. Babies aren't born with experience. When I was born I didn't know I was going to love a lot of things, but my society gave me options as I developed- and I picked from the bunch.

Obviously people have completely different definitions and perceptions here.

goth origsnnly was warriors from across the lake. not music or all black

I do not think one is "born" Goth, unless you'r e talking about the chracteristics. All babaies are born free and equal. They have no experience as to what life is about. It is all based on the Experience. From that experience, one is able to pick and choose what or who they are.

HOwever, I can say that one will always feel that there is a void in their lives when there is something unfulfilled (therefore not experienced) in their lives. I always felt out of place, like an outcast even, growing up. I would often live in my little world, to the exclusion of others. The music I listened to was different. The shows I watched were different. The movies I watched were different. The people I spoke to were out of the norm. The way I spoke was even different! Not to mention my interests and hobbies! I found my home mainly in the Internet. I have come to understand who I am and how that can change.

So if you're asking if you can have certain traits of a certain sub-culture, I would say that you can be.

pretty much no matter who you are or what you do people will make a label for it and stick it on you, people judge, that's just human nature, it provides comfort for some to have things organize and understand things on some levels

I mean, look at the word gay for example, it used to mean happy, like in The Flintstone's theme song, when they say they'll "have a gay old time" they didn't mean Fred and Barney are going to fuck.

Now a word that used to mean happy or just plain homosexual is now a very derogatory term and means stupid in many cases

There's an excellent video series on Goth by Jillian Ventters called "Gothic Charm School" where our lifestyles, and philosophy are derived, and where it stands now. I made a Memver Page where the videos are. I'll update the page.

nature or nurture? being goth is not just a forbidden - for many it is a state of mind, a path, a calling even.

but do people feel drawn towards the goth lifeforbidden because of their upbringing, or is it a mindset they are born with?

in my case, i was born with one foot in the otherworld, and that in itself is enough to draw one towards cthonic matters. the goth movement is one i can identify with.

I dont think when a person is born that it is a case to place them into a category.
Depending on how they are i raised though i believe leads them to make the choices and decisions in life.

Goth ~ VisisGoth, as in warrior caste, outlawed and hated and, quite murderous.

as to being born Jewish, Christian etc... ut's in the genes.

aw c'mon... how racist can one person sound.

almopst sounds like eugenics...

Sheesh.

As to are goths born or made.

hell... loojk up nature versus nuture.

the parallels are there.

right, nature vs nurture is one of the biggest arguments in the social sciences, how much of us is genetic and how much is a product of our environment

in order to test whether goth is more nature or nurture you'd have to take two identical twin infants, put one in a gothic family, but the other in a family that isn't but isn't against it either and have them both living in similar environments

identical twins have identical DNA so they are the best test and study subjects for the nature vs nurture thing

My parents didn't raise me up in anything. When I hit my teens I was a very confused individual. Seeking something I didn't know what it was. I always liked the color black. And I was always different than everyone else. Goth wasn't recognized really then. I never liked being outside as I was drawn to dark places. And drawn to old castles and dragons and stuff like that. When I married the first time, he was a christian so I tried to be to. It didn't work very well because I was always drawn to the darker side of things. In love I look at the shadow not the lining. But, I also have this need to bite as well. Am I gothic? I don't know. I do know one thing. I am just me.

I am the clear example that just because you raise a child in a certain way they won't necessary be that way.

I always hated that people interfere in my life and tell me what to do, yet I received orders my whole life. Certain things are in the character I firmly believe that. I threw away everything I was taught and did my own stuff.

Goth is a sub-culture and a lifeforbidden. You can be born into it if those who you were born to are goth. Others, such as myself, find it ourselves through research and preference. Some though are born already liking the dark and macabre and that's what they have always enjoyed despite what atmosphere they are raised in.

I don't think you're born anything, because each new life entering is a clean slate. The decisions you and those around you affect what and who you are, so you're not 'born' into something, unless it's medical or something to do with old-style classing systems - for example, caste or monarchy.
You didn't come out of your mother's vagina with black hair, piercings and eyeliner, so you weren't "born" goth.

i dont know who invented the goth subculture but its very closely based on the SS.

WHAT? it is in no way based on the SS. other than the fact that a lot of goths like red and black, there is connection whatsoever. most of the goths i know are more ingluenced by the Addams Family.

I will disagree with the term Born Goth. When you are born,you just a creature of the Universe. From there, the influence created by your surrounding, will pave the road that you will follow. Most of the time, people tend to become something, just because look cool or feel nice. Psychologically speaking, we all do that at some point in our so called existence.

unless one was born with black fingernails and came out of the womb humming Ultravox songs.

Which is not possible, therefore may not literally happen.

As others have said and I think its the majority, you cannot be born goth though I am sure you can be raised as one. Not healthy though.

well Mars Bonfire was born to be wild, so i don't see why someone couldn't be born to be goth.

Because Goth is a life-forbidden and a sub-culture, its not genetic, People are usually blank slates at the start. Goths were about the music...at first, then came all the depressive self harming crap that became a part of the modern sub-culture.

Its the same with other things too, for example, no one is born religious as it is just something they are taught by their parents and teachers, unless of course they find it themselves.

But couldn't someone be born predisposed to that life forbidden?

People are born poets, people are born Artists - you can see that side of them developing from a very early age, and quite often it is counter to their upbringing. Whilst it is true that a great many young goths adopt that forbidden because they think it is cool and trendy, there are others who feel drawn to it for other reasons. Maybe they dislike daylight and find moonlight to be beautiful and romantic, maybe they enjoy punk / new romantics music, maybe they just like gothic architecture.

the question is "Why do they like it?" the answer might be something to do with environment, but it is equally likely that they were just born that way.

People are not born that way either, it just something that they are naturally adept at, that is all. Human beings are animals of many skills, some are great artists, some are singers but its not genetic, people are blank slates except those who inherit illnesses as then they are stuck with some sort of trait from when they were born.

Some men are soldiers, some are janitors, its not determined at birth otherwise there would be no free will. Its all about skill, preference and a state of mind.

Its true that there are predisposition to things in life but like I said its down to someone's state of mind and personal preference and what they feel comfortable with. Even the most evilest and vile of killers was once a blank slate, he or she was never born pure evil. Its usually the environment and parents that can turn someone that way.

Forgot to answer your question.

Why they like it is probably because they have no life and are completely alone and depressed, by being a goth (modern version), they feel apart of a community, though an unhealthy one at that since it just encourages their negative behavior.

Note that not all goths are like that but the majority are, at least in terms of these modern ones (gothemos) Its the reason why there is that stereotype of depressed, poem writing, wrist slitting, death obsessed goths with eyeliners and black clothes.

Same with vampire wannabes, they want to be a part of something and to pretend to be something other than their miserable pathetic lives. Its an unfortunate delusion but its best to let them wallow in it. No help for the weak.

mayhap free will is just an illusion - a fairy tale we tell ourselves when we dont want to admit that fate guides our hands.

There is no fate or destiny. Free will does indeed exist, its just hard to exert with a damn government trying to control everything in the world.

Funny thing is, people who believe in fate and destiny, still cry like a baby when someone kills their family, they still condemn the killer even though according their beliefs...it was supposed to happened, fate created the killer, made the killer go there and do that....But they don't believe that, they still act like they have been wronged by another human and not fate itself, they pick and choose which is free will itself, irony really.

well that's why we invented gods and demons - for those occasions where we cant find a human to blame. that's the curious thing about humans - this peculiar invention called justice. there is no justice in nature - if there are any real gods, then justice is as alien to them as cycle lanes are to a halibut.

but it drives us. we demand justice, and cry to the heavens if we perceive anything as being "unfair".

i wonder if it is just us, or whether alien creatures billions of light years away have similar drives.

Who knows? I don't care about justice, I go by the law of the jungle and nature.
Society is indeed a funny thing, its usually reversed though with what you said, some believe in gods first before losing their "faith" after someone close has died. The only gods about are the living creatures on this planet, each one a god of something connected to them. Man is the only animals that kills for fun, for evil. Man is the darkest animal on this planet.
Goths show how depressed and how low a man can sink when they lose their nerves.

totally different things if you ask me, religions as a whole have a belief and practice to live by as goth is more personal and can very from person to person and can be completely different from one goth to the next, but of course everything that is grouped together in life does have a set of basic standards to go by.

Different yes, but the point was made in that neither of them is something you are born as but something that is introduced to you either by yourself or through others.

humans are quite cruel to each other, there is no other species that fights so much and so violently and caries as much anger as we do. Maybe the people who define themselves as goths in the modern definition realize that, think they are doomed, and don't think they can do anything to make their life better.

I would also like to point out that those around you also control your life and "fate" so to speak, you can be randomly drafted into war and killed just for being an American male age 18 or over. You didn't do anything to make your house attractive to burglars but someone decided you had something they wanted and they didn't want to pay for it. They chose your fate to call the police, deal with the legal system, pay for restitution, maybe emotional damages to you and your family, and possibly send them to prison. You had nothing to do with that at all, having nice things isn't your fault or bad, some person from your environment just decided they wanted your nice things.

even if you are born into a family who has you predisposed to certain things doesn't mean you will be like them

my family is Roman Catholic but my religion can be described as Eclectic Paganism

if the argument is that sense of forbidden and taste of music is inherited I beg to differ, it's more likely to be similar to your parents because that's what you grew up in and what you consider comfortable but it's not guaranteed that you'll dress like them, live in the same forbidden of house, and enjoy the music they do

the same argument can be made with alcoholism, is it actually inherited or are some just that much more predisposed to it?

goth has several meanings. originally it was a tribe, so obviously any children born to a goth would also be a goth.

today goth is a subculture which grew from the new romantics, which in turn grew from punk. it is therefore a lifeforbidden feeply rooted in a musical preference.

Marc Bolan was born to boogie, so i dont see why someone cant be born to goth.

I have a friend who refers to herself as a "gothic baby". I have never actually been able to pin her down on a definition of "gothic baby". I mean did she wear black diapers? Did her mom paint her little nails black? Or is she referring to a mind set? I will have to try to get a definition from her.

i have several friends whose offspring are now teenagers, and like their parents are goths. i find this rather curious, as few teenagers tend to share the musical taste and subculture of their parents. it seems for a couple of them at least it never occurred to them to be anything else

maybe there is something enduring about it, maybe there is something intrinsically attractive about the whole sub-culture. maybe good tastes are genetic. fortunately bad taste is not (at least in my case - i consider "country and western" to be cruel and unreasonable torture and a war crime)

You cannot be born goth in my opinion, the choice to accept ways of life and cultures comes with knowledge and experience. The only exception of course would be Stewy (Family Guy). :)

Karnelius, I noticed the same thing. Curious indeed. Maybe they don't feel the need to rebel 'cause their parents themselves follow an anti-mainstream life s-t-y-l-e?

I never met people that had rock/goth whatever parents and they became different, but the opposite yes. Sometimes though an exception happens. I know a guy whose parents were punk but don't approve of him for being punk. (Maybe they want to protect him from society)

But in any case...

While on the topic of how people become Goths, and I am an example of this, that a lot of teens from Catholic or Christian families are rebelling, deciding it isn’t right for them, or something like that, and choose a various alternative life style or religion, much like Goth, but not always, I identify as an eclectic pagan but come from a Roman Catholic family.

Many times that is the reason, the rebelling. But if you're actually not 'socially accepted' because of your thoughts, personality, tastes...don't you actually become a Goth because you feel your persona fits the style? If a child likes Halloween more than xmas, likes 'dark' stuff etc, without their parents' influence, isn't it sort of expected?

I liked Halloween during times when in my country it wasn't known, been watching horror movies alone since I was two, started to have my own opinions and sort of rebelling before I was a teen, I think it was expected. Add that with my character and mix of experiences and you get all the ingredients.

I also would like to know, where do tastes come from? No one teaches us how to like something, it comes natural. So if someone likes horror at an early age, is it natural, is it in the blood...etc

or it might just be that Byron was so cool, that anybody with taste yearns to be one of his entourage and live his lifestile. seriously - its a matter of taste suits and ties will never be cool, and jeans were only cool in the sixties. the worst thing about the 20th century (apart from a couple of world wars and the threat of nuclear oblivion) was clothing for men was utterly bland and dull. i know what most call gothic is actually more baroque, but this is because of what became called gothic fiction (gothic horror and gothic romance more specifically)

do you think the jacobean ruff might come back?

i think yes you can be born with the mindset to like things gothic

If you were born during the dark ages, which I highly doubt since you are here now. Then it is safe to assume no you can not be born goth. goth by today's poor standards is simply a life forbidden and sub culture of music apparel and other main stream venues.

but what if you have goth parents who insist on raising you as a goth?

Regardless you are not born Goth you are shown and taught how to be Goth. By all of today's standards.

To me a person that declares themselves to be "Born _____" is an example of someone who implies that they are elite in some way. It is the same with the majority of people who entitle themselves to be "lords" or "high priest". It is grandiose self promotion.

The point for goth is moot because it doesn't mean anything anymore (except for those who lived through the era) it all became just another fad in the mid nineties.

I know when I see Goth...

Goth is Goth Naked...

Goth is custom, not costume..

It is noir'.. It hailed from Gatherings of people who embraced ideals that others considered taboo, it was a rebellion against false happiness. It was drab, it was an homage to vintage fashion.

I have to agree with dabbler here. I believe that a lot of what goth is and was has been commercialized and as such has died.

a good proof of that would be "Abby" on Ncis: most annoying character on the entire show, way over exaggerated.

Goth could just be the term people use for those who don't have main stream interests and clothing forbidden just like Pagan has come to mean any religious beliefs and groups that aren't main stream and don't have a designated, widely known book and set of rules.

"Goth" is a mindset and attitude, like "gangster/gangsta", as people like to call it. Though, in a way, one can be 'born' "Goth", it only stands to reason that a person 'born' into it would most likely have either 'Goth' parents, or a "troubled" history, and therefore, can be a 'Goth' by birth-choice, as it were.

No. I don't believe anyone can be "born goth," anymore then anyone is born a doctor or an christian. Yes, you can be born into that kind of culture, or be raised by people who have become as such. Are you a christian simply because your parents are? Are you a goth just because your parents were? Of course not. You might be more likely to become one, or pursue that certain kind of life you may want as you grow older, but that doesn't necessarily mean you are born one.

Fascinating question. Thank you for the thread!
My answer: yes and no!

1. Poeple are not born goth but may come from birth with a certain organic/psychic inborn traits towards the psychological profile of a person who adheres at a goth culture. The condition to be a goth (more or less) is to come in contact later in his life with the goth culture.
2. This should mean that during times goth was a culture in different, let`s call them disquised or primitive form, a sort of gothicism a different form of what goth is today. And there are such cultures during time and on different continents.
3. I think it goes the same for the vampire ... rave. I mean the people who are fascinated the idea of undead (having good or bad feelings about it, usually both). Maybe animism was the old form of vampire rave...
4. Don`t take it more serious then it is. It should mean a perspective of understanding the world(and it should not be the only one) and not a brainwashing religion.
As my funny friend PAGAN use to say:

GOTH IS GOoD. Amen!
;)

One thing I now know for certain is that the term "lifeforbidden" is made-up, and has no use, or presence out of this site. So it appears that yet again people sweep up flattering phrases.. and buzz words to give themselves an air of sophistication. Just as people title themselves "lord", "Priest" "priestess" "shaman" and of course Goth.. an example of how desperate people are to project themselves as something other than what they condemn as "mundane".

Goth is a subculture, and I find it to be a very interesting one at that. Ive read and written several studies on it. I find goth to be beautiful, though there are alot of things people tend to misjudge about goths, like selfharming, being suicidal etc. Thats not what its about.

No. I don't think anyone can be "born" goth. Like what some of the other users said, it's become a more new age term to the teenagers these days.

Yes, I wear black and listen to Gothic (or dark) music but, that's me on the outside. I'm more of a Gothic in my soul then anything else. :)


~Tory~

I am not sure if you can just become something I think honestly you can be born goth because its something that just doesnt fall into place the paths we chose come from the upbringing we get from our lovely parents so if we end up on the dark side of life...hell they couldve shoved nothing but light themed things and you rebeled

I dont believe a person can be "born" Goth. A person can be born into a family that lives a certain lifestyle and therefore be raised in a particular way that effects their development but being "born" that way. No I dont believe that

I dunno. I guess it would depend partly on exactly how you define Goth.

Nature or nurture?

Probably some of both...

I sincerely believe that someone can be born Goth or awakened at an early age! However, my definition of "Goth" isn't black clothing and fingernails but a sense of the paranormal and all things dark and brooding! In my opinion it's just as significant and justifiable as any other personality type!!! We all exhibit standards of personality, that is a law in psychology! However, no one is the stereotypical personality type mentioned in any psyc textbook! Therefore why should a Goth be any different! If you're a brooding moody person that's enjoys what others consider depressing or frightening you're probably a natural Goth! Especially if you're psychic! After all no REAL psychic could ever accept the current world view of the paranormal and this is where a real Goth begins!!!!! I'm Goth and I'm very proud to be one!!!!! However, when I do wear black it's jeans or a good dress shirt! I also have a pair of black cowboy boots but I certainly don't wear them all at once! I don't feel the need to advertise my personality like that! However, it has come to mean that a genuine Goth does! Well ignorance abounds doesn't it!

the problem here is how people are registering your question. Some think youre talking about fashion, some culture. I believe you are born goth from within. That one day something sparked within you and you realized who you were meant to be.

I don't believe anyone can be born Goth unless you are speaking of descendants of the Visgoths.

This does beg the question of Nature vs Nurture....while I agree that we are all "born with a clean slate" I find it interesting how sometimes things turn out.

As an example - I am often fascinated by kids that grow up in the most horrible of circumstances yet find the way to "break the cycle". While I admit that this is few and far between what do those people have that others lack?

How about an entire culture? How are there still tribes in the world that have no access, desire, knowledge etc of the "modern world" Didn't every culture start out as humans living in caves. (This is a broad generality - I am just making a point)

Net net - I do think that you can be born goth (goth as defined as a state of mind for what the sub culture dictates) However I will acquiesce that you may need to have some sort of exposure to it for it to truly manifest.


*just my 2 cents*

every one is different in their religious beliefs. some are born into a religion, others are not, as for Gothic, its within the person, and will surface at different times.
some say its a fad people go through, which it can be,, but you know when the true Gothic person is surfacing as you feel the change within your soul and life style much deeper..

Goth is an aesthetic, and cannot be inbred. it's a learned behaviour and style. It would have to contain DNA aspects, which it does not.

Well no, someone in essence cannot be born "goth" as in the subculture. Its a choice in which one makes. Such as being a christian or atheist. People can have attributes and personalities that help to be a "goth" but as for a birthright? Nay its a persons choice.

I don't think anyone is born anything, really. You're born with a personality to an extent, but without beliefs or anything, you get raised with them, and become a product of your environment.

As for being a Goth, I feel generally one becomes one when they realise that that's where they fit into society. Or at least they can pin that label to themselves then. There are so, so many different kinds of subcultural cliques, everyone fits in somewhere.

One is attracted to the aesthetic, the music, the spooky lifestyle and so on, and if they adopt all these things because it feels natural to do so, they sure you are a Goth. You either are one or your aren't, really.

I like the term "Goth-Moth"; someone who is attracted to the subculture, hang out with goths, but isn't one themselves.

And um, yes. The goth subculture did start with the music as an offshoot of punk. A small amount of googling will tell you that. That started it as a 'thing' to be.
I say you can be intrinsically attracted to dark, spooky things, but not be born a goth.

i like the goth thing but i do not believe " Goths can be born as one" is a thing that is related to what your characteristics are, what you think and know of knowledge,

the term of born goth. gosh everyone has different reasons for this, Mine is I don't so though you can have it as a life forbidden,"".

No one can be born as jewish, satanistic, goth, cristian,... Every person is born as blank page in a book. And influenced by people makes us who we are. If your mother is jewish i bet you will hate it in the end. My parents are cristians and i hate this religion. People always looking a group to fet in. Thats normal for human behoviour. In the end evry one choose to be murders, leaders or sheeps. Lol

IF Goth were only about surface appearances such as choices in clothing or dying your hair then of course someone could not be born that way since a baby would not even know what clothing or fashion was. But if taking into consideration the deeper meanings of the Goth subculture, I think it's entirely possible for someone to be born attracted and connected to the darker aspects of things. Plus I don't think it gives enough credit to the diversity of souls that enter this plane through birth to claim that all babies are born a "blank slate". There would not be much of a point to that. Even newborn babies have distinctive likes, dislikes, levels of sensitivities to their environments from quite a young age, and levels of awareness. Even at a very young age I preferred to hide out in dark basements and explore rather than playing outside in the sun. I hated the sun. But I loved the moon, especially when it was full. One last point, even though the term Goth might have only been coined a few decades ago it doesn't mean that there weren't any people who were Goth before that, simply that the term or label had been invented yet. Throughout history there have always been people who were "different" or "other" in societies. And a lot of the time it started quite young. Certain children being considered freaks or odd or different. Just something to think about.

Renegade makes a good point.The term goth is several decades old but there have been people who were attracted to darkness,nighttime and mysticism before that.

But Goths was never about that originally and certainly not about "mysticism". Goths started out within the music culture, its long since changed now.

Humans are not really born anything except for a few things, Goths are a subculture, sure it attracts certain type of people but not even they were like that when in their mother's womb or the day they were born. Humans simply become fixated on things that they then shape themselves around to become like it, this can happen at very very early ages so it can seem like they have always been like that. Most Humans are sheep in that they all seek the same thing, they crave identity and so will try and find things to belong to and will alter themselves to become much more compatible with it, sometimes this is done subconsciously. Humans are social animals and like being apart of something such as communities, groups and small cultures to feel comfortable and safe.

Again a good Point.Some People choose to adhere to a certain social Group because it gives them a sense of identity and belonging,but it doesn`t mean that they are ``designed`` or Born to be that.You cannot be Born to be anything,you must make choices which will lead you to become whatever you want to be

Yes the sense of belonging I think I mentioned it, or was it in another thread? Anyway yeah and it's also interesting how they are so: oh yeah we accept everyone and then they boot you if you disagree once with them. I hate groups.

Goth is a lifestyle and aesthetic. it is not a biological faxctor of birth such as nationality and human cultire. Howevevr as a lifestyle it has our lasted many of the previous lifestyle trends such as punk 70's and 80's.

no you cannot be born goth... but I believe darkness (not evil) can cloak someone from a very early age

Not shure..
I mean it can be both.
Like how I was..Never was I normal,never did
I act that way,or love bright and cheerful things.
EVER.
I was never around gothic culture..or did I hear
music...that was goth or metal.
So,I didn't really CHOOSE,or get brainwashed
by others,or liked how they were,or even by
religin.
It's just who I am.The way I'll always be.
Believe me,when I was little..I rather have monster
dolls to carry,then barbie.And,i Hated bright colors.
So,
to me..My spirit,myself..what I am and feel.
I was born this way.I only choose to put on
the clothes and makeup,cause it just makes
me feel better.

But,
there are some that,turns to it.
out of music,and culture.
they understand it,and grow
into it,as a blanket of comfort.
It's who they see themselves as,and it fits them
very well.

Now for thoes who like it as a fashion
statment..ARE NOT..goth.
I'm sorry...but,
it's MORE then clothes and face paint.

Either way, humans start off as blank slates, not goth, not good, not evil etc. Sure there may be some small predispositions but in the end, its all just choice, the human mind is incredibly complex to the point not even you could know what you think is true or not.

Someone said something about how nationality and culture is inborn, not true. Nationality (as in country not skin color obviously) is somewhat of a human invention, just like cultures. its something that is named, made (not the actual land obviously) and given rules. In a few thousand years or even a hundred, there may be "new" countries and cultures in place of old, they can change just as easily how a human can change what they want to belong too.

I have always been on the "outside" of things. Though I am from where I am, I do not feel an affinity to this land. Other than the fact that this is where I find ways to survive, there is nothing that would indicate that I am a local. There is no Internal Point of View, as what they call in legal philosophy. Sorry, I don't know how else to explain. I have to agree with Mortalitas. He is right. No one is "born" anything. It's all conditioning, and for beings like us who break out of this conditioning, we see and feel things differently. I may not be a Goth. But yes, I have always favoured the gloomier version of things... Perhaps because it comes naturally. Is that an inborn trait? I don't think so, though I do say that it's in my blood, so that my point gets across. Most of the time, we say such things to emphasise our affiliation to something. It does not have to be literal.

Goth was originally a sub-culture of music. You can not be born Goth. You can be brought up on the music and choose to where the clothing and express yourself that way. But being born Goth, hardly. It is a choice once you grow up into your own. I chose to be Gothic. And in all truth the word "Gothic" came from certain types of building designs and churches in Europe and Britain.

Oh and not to mention from an old Clan in Europe called goth. A fair hared and fair skinned people.

Peeps that claim to be Born anything seem to be elitist.

Uhm , My sole opinion here, but you aren't born a religion.
Your raised in a religion, its not a character trait.
Its something that is taught to you upon birth, or that you discover in your own time. So no, you can not be born goth. amazing with these labels, blowing my mind. But, anyways...
You are who you are. Yes your born a certain way with your own feelings and forbiddens. But your not born into any certain label.
Rather it be a religion or a sub-culture. You cant even be born into a gender label

I don't personally believe you're born Goth (I haven't reviewed all of the responses to this thread) but I believe it's just a choice to be goth. You can be born into a religion but still have the freedom to change it or not follow it. Goth I think is more a style or way you choose to portray.

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