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Okay, here's a question for ya'll: is Satanism a religion, an antireligion, or simply a shock factor rebellion? What are your personal opinions on the subject?

I'm not wanting any personal attacks or putdowns here, but this is a hotly contested subject. Please keep all opinions as objective as possible. Thanks.

Well, first, what should the term antireligion signify?

Not every word whit an added "anti-" in front of it makes sense.

Satanism is a religion as well as a lifestyle. It means you take care of yourself as opposed to prayer and false hopes asked of God. You accept yourown responsiblities and be able to accept the outcome of your actions.

Devilworship is one who worships the "christian devil".

STAB666: Crowley was not a Satanist, he was a Qabalist who founded the religion of Thelema, so is Satanism a crossover, perhaps incorporating the core concept of Thelema (evey man and woman is a star, do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law) into their own dogma? And would that make Satanism an unofficial sect of Thelema, kind of like Protestantism is to Catholicism?

SarraS: The term antireligion does apply, because in my understanding based upon my personal research, Lavey Satanism was created as a rebellious response to a Christian upbringing, and almost every symbol and ritual is either something considered by the Christian church as an evil act, or an outright perversion of the rites, rituals, and symbolism of Christianity.

alastordarc,

I never stated that Crowley was a Satanist, but that his most famous quote essentially captures the essence of what it means to be Satanist.

I would point to the late edit of my previous post and say that both Crowley's Thelema and Satanism would be very akin to existentialism, but both still retain and measure of structure and control which contradicts the core foundation of that idea.

Both these concepts allow for a disavowing of responsibility for action, based on the fact that 'they were told to do it'. The individual is not 'free' in a truly anarchic fashion in either of those systems.

i think that SCIENTISM is the anti-religion, but no matter what, most belief systems end up looking a lot more like religion than they would like in any case... lol.. even scientism is a religion... 'what makes the 'laws' of nature laws?' i asked one.. he looked at me like i was nutz.. LMAO
D

STABB666:

Interesting viewpoint, I had never really thought of it like that. And I wasn't implying that you had said Crowley was a Satanist, sorry for the apparent confusion.

snakiepoox,

This discussion is about Satanism, not Scientism. Please stay on topic.

Thank you.

A quote for you:
Walter Kaufmann~ "The refusal to belong to any school of thought, the repudiation of the adequacy of any body of beliefs whatever, and especially of systems, and a marked dissatisfaction with traditional philosophy as superficial, academic, and remote from life"

Since Satanism is indeed a 'school of thought', it cannot therefore be entirely existential, which means that it cannot be ascribed as an 'anti-religion'.

But Sir, it could be called a Religion right? Least in my eyes and the Ones i am associated with think of it as a Religion..I never heard of Crowley until i met One on Yahoo and that is who He follows...

Well put, and seems to answer that facet of the question beyond argument. But that still does leave one wondering: how much credence can be given a religion whose entire purpose, whose very creation, is the destruction of a religion? Should their agenda succeed, and all signs of Christianity be wiped from the face of the earth, then what course would they take, what higher purpose would they have?

Perhaps my previous post was worded slightly more harshly than I intended, if it was taken offensively, I do apologize.

since this is just a matter of opinion, i'll give mine too...

God has made Lucifer, and God has made men... God has never made a religion... men made religions, not God or satan...
we create religions and follow our own rules, which has nothing in common with God or satan... satan means enemy of the men, and if anyone wants to worship a enemy, that's fine... and if you call satanism a religion or a anti-religion that's fine too... because that does not change things...

but, if God truly exist, then every satanist should read the book of Job in the bible, and see what is the paper of Satan in earth...

Job 1:7 :And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it." and verse 12 "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."

Satan cannot do anything without the God's permission... he is just a servant... lol... ^^

Now now Malakh, You know where i stand on this subject and true it is opinions..And i do not want to sway nor get this thread closed down..I believe that it is a Religion and where as i do not follow LaVey or Crowley but myself and The ways of The Church ov Apeiron..And yes CoA follows some of LaVey's ways..It is a choice that some choose to make and a way of Life..They can perform Marriages and Even Burials..So why isnt it a Religion?

With this discussion theological Satanism should also be considered. While not as sensationalistic, it does hold to the worship of ancient demons in the place of gods.

Anti-religion, no. Because both forms of Satanism create teachings with ritual, prayer and dogma specific to the belief is applied.

Only when someone steps fully away from the forms and teachings (by this I mean the ways the churches teach, practise, etc) can you be away from a religious tone. Otherwise, even with just following an elder- you are taking on well-honed practises that on a subconscious level create spiritualisms.

Satanism has to be a religion. It follows an ideal. The ideal that you come first. You have the right to do what you want without being told not to do. Some people may join it for shock factor but every religion has people that join it to shock someone. It doesn't make the whole religion a shock factor.

thank You Sahahria..And i agree with You..But some see this as a Religion..And i respect that

yep, it is correct that satanism fits more into a religion than in a anti-religion...
but, todays concepts of Satan or satanism are very far from the truth...not even satan can do whatever he want to do... he is just a bad-boy... ups, sorry... bad-angel... ^^

It's a religion to those that follow it. It seems to me it's more of an anti-religion to those who frown upon it. And that's fine too. It is an opinion, after all.

Lagniappe,

I disagree, in that it cannot be described as an anti-religion for the reasons I gave above. It is contradictory really only to a limited perspective of God and therefore, can only be considered Anti-Christian.

Anti-Christian, of course. I think that's the whole point of it (opinion). I just see many say it isn't a religion simply because they disagree with it.

So you would say, Atheism is the 'anti-religion'? I would.

Like a + and a - there are always two different sides of everything. Light and dark, up and down. Why cannot Satanism be the opposite of the Christianity religion?

It can be the opposite, who says it can't?

sure... i will make myself clear...

but can you please tell me where did i bash the philosophy of satanism? i don't understand that...

satanism has nothing in common with Anton's L'vey philosophy's or beliefs... are we talking about satanism or about the recent known church of satan that Anton built?

I would say that it can only be anti religious when no other belief system is put in it's place. Even scientology has belief systems added to it. It is not an anti religion at all.

In all truth my opinion is that for you to have anti religion you would have to remove the spiritual from the person. So far the only thing that does that is science. However that being said it does not mean that a scientific person can't be religious, just that the scientific method is something that does not use the same tools as religion to promote itself. It uses research and logic.

Religion is the opposite with belief and spirit.

Both are the same coin- just vastly different ways of looking at them.

I have to agree with You Both...And say Thank You to Stabb..Malakh always does that and thinks it isnt bashing..Sorry, i am trying to bash anyOne's beliefs nor Their opinion's..We all have that and i respect it..I just wish ppl to respect what and how i feel..

Sorry, Stabb, but anti-religion can not be used as a noun. If someone's aligned against (anti) religion, he would be an atheist, maybe an agnostic (though that's not anti).
If that anti-religion like here itself subscribes to some sort of believe system, it's per definitionem religion.

But not all Satanists are atheist's...Nor do We worship Satan...This is a learning thread for me..But i do not want to say anything to bash anyOne's opinion or religion...

winterdarkmoon i love you all... ^^

and my war is against demons, not against you or anyone else... but i say it again, that i do not belong to any religion, in fact i hate religions...
and to me Christianity is also a way of life, not a religion...

and about offending others, i also feel offended many times and i do not complain...
this are hot topics... and we must be tolerant... i think that i did not offend anyone... if i do, just tell me where, and i will apologize...

I think that if you’re simply following Satanism as a revolt against Christianity then it’s not really a religion you’re following just a form of protest. If a person were following the “rules” of Satanism, as they understand them then I’d have to consider it a faith at the very least.
I cannot debate the tenets of Satanism as I do not follow it, but many things can be considered a “faith” if enough people believe in it and claim it to be so. Even atheism is a faith in a way for they tend to be as rabid in their defense of not believing in any god, just their own selves, to the point of making themselves their own godhead.

Well I am not rebelling if that is what you mean..I am old enough and I know what is in my heart..And it is a religion, just as Wicca is and anyOther form of one you can think of..It is a way of life for me and Other's as well..We simply do not force anything down anyone's throat..We do not use kids for any means nor anything like that..You have your opinion of what Satanism is and Xtian's have their's..And how i have mine so..This is a learning experience for anyone..

WinterDarkMoon, I wasn't inferring your belief wasn't valid or a religion, if you follow the rules of your faith it is as religious as any other faith. The ones I question are the ones who are using Satanism as a form of rebellion against the Christian church or teachings. In their case is it truly a religion or a protest?

Oh i misunderstood..And i have to agree with you..Really doesnt know the answer but to me I could see that in some, using it to get back at their parents or church..Who knows what they use any religion for...That is why it is called evil and We worship the Devil..But as this thread is, Other's opinion's

Satanism found it roots during the time of the black plague. People felt that god had turned his back on man. They sought to turn there back on God. This was accomplished by the perversion of existing catholic rituals, for example the reciting of the Lord’s Prayer backwards, the inversion of the crucifix.

Personally I do not believe in satan but, it is a religion and should be respected just like every religion should be.

I do not think you should go around believing in gods, it only encourages them.
I would prefer to respect one for their clarity of thought rather than their choice of deities.
*grin*

I think satanism is a religion. Yes, it might be also used to shock some people... but it is still a religion. It is put together the same way any other religion is. All religions have thier own beliefs and rules that they follow. I think that if anyone were to call it an anti-religion they are sadly mistaken... not to mention that because of their beliefs they might call other religions an anti-religion. It's all in your view, I know people who make their own religions even. (It's the only way to describe what they do.) So I do not see how it is any different from christianity. (Other than.. the beliefs and... all that Jazz.)

Satanism is Anti-God. To be against something, you must believe in that something. In order to oppose something you much have something to oppose.

I never said i was anti anything..I am proud to be who I am and what I am...I do not hurt anyone nor do i try and cram my belief down anyone's throat..It is a religion and one that can perform ceremonies just as Xtian's...And everyone has their own opinion in this as well

to me it would depend on what satanic pratice you are speaking of there are several brands of the satanic ways that rely on self an nothing more

Isnt that the same as worshiping Yourself? And thats what ppl dont understand about satanism..I am still learning but has a pretty good Teacher once again, so thats good for me

Being a Satanist, as well as the founder of the Temple of the Knights of Satan, I will give my 2 cents. I believe Satanism is more of a way of life, than a religion. Depending on where your resource material hails from, some say Satanism began with the Knights templars,, others believe when judas betrayed christ. Yet, oddly enough, still others claim it hails from the ancient Druids. There is way to much information to post here, but it does make for some intersting reading if one chooses to google the subject.

There are rules and rituals that we follow, as well as sabots that we celebrate, which, in retro-spect, would classify Satanism as a religion, however, those that follow the left hand path know thier is more discipline and learning involved, thus would catagorize Satanism as a way of life. A Satanist is always questing for knowledge, instead of taking things on faith. We are constantly seeking the truth, exploring the "grey" area's of life and existance.

Tis why i have You Baby to make it easier for me to learn and read all there is to read..I agree it is a way of life and i am not saying that i broadcast it all out for everyone to see..I have lil kids around so i do have to hide certain things from them...I mean i have my cross upside down..My altar and things are put up from them..It is something i have chose to do until they get old enough to understand and make up their own minds..I am not ashamed by any means, they see things but yet doesnt truly understand the meaning yet..If they ask to go to church, we let them..Now Deann knows all this and she understands, has respect but She is still kinda leery of it..

i would have to say satanism is very much a religion for all you need to be a religion is something you worship and rituals which satanism has both

A religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people, this description seems to fit Satanism so I would say it is an religion.

I do believe i remember reading books by anton levey(sp?) when i was in my teens, years ago. I have since then heard many of things on this toipic.. such as... it being its own religion, it being a part of the catholic religion.. and a few other tidbit. Like i mentioned before they are all hearsay.

Given the responses in this thread, I have to give modern Satanism it's due as a religion, regardless of my personal problems with its theology. I would still term it an antireligion, based simply upon the fact that it is the antithesis of another religion, anti being used as in antihero, in which function one is still the hero, but functions in a way that is contradictory to the way a hero should function (as opposed to the antagonist). But once one moves beyond semantics, I would give modern Satanism its due as a religion. Thank you STABB666 and winterdarkmoon for your input.

Satanism is a broad term which can include a religion and a belief system, a central deity or a symbol of that deity which is a metaphor. Those that follow a philosophy which describes itself as a religion, as Leveys' "Church of Satan", are I believe, following a religion. But many who are not followers of of Levays church, who subscribe to the philosophy he presented in the "Satanic Bible" ,and newer interpretations, as their chosen belief do not describe themselves as members of a church or religion. There are many Satanic groups that have evolved from the Church of Satan, which was first presented in 1966, and much older groups which existed prior to that time. These groups followed an anti Xtian philosophy, such as The Hellfire Club of Sr. Francis Dashwood in the 18th ce., in essence a libertine society that rebeled against the strict moral code of Xtianity.

I believe that what satanism is as a religion or a belief system varies as much as each individual who walks it's path. I feel my own path is a hodge podge on different belief systems.

Rev. Ravyn

From what I had been reading when looking up the core concepts of Satanism, it seems to me the merit is that the individual chooses to follow a standard set of rules and regulations with no religious context to adhere to.

The individual is for the self, if someone jeopardizes this, then they are deemed fit to be "destroyed". I see no worshipping of any deity whether it be good nor evil. Thus I draw conclusion that Satanism is not anti-religion at all. As religion itself is the worshipping of any said deity...Surely the self is no deity. This is both pompous and extremely vain.

Religious satanism in my opinion seems to be caused by those of whom believe in the deity satan as a fallen angel. This is not the case, the fallen angel was Lucifer...So in turn, the Luciferian is born, not the Satanist. I think Satanism should be named Selfworship.

Stabb, Lagniappe, and Alastordarc all have very valid points. Too bad all agree to disagree in my point of view.

Soulshroud I am sorry, but that seems a little harsh, yes according to LeVay it may be a little self serving. I see that most satanist tend to see this as just their religion and tend to personalize it to thier own particular beliefs. Nothing wrong with that, simply a personal choice that should be accepted as just that.

Thank You Gwen for that...And while i agree with that, i have to disagree also..Some may see it as a religion and yes even follow LaVey but how i learned was from The CoA and it's Magister..While CoA does follow abit of LaVey's rules and things, they also follow their own...i am still in the learning process and yes i agree with LaVey on some things, we do worship ourselfs and not Satan..But Alastor made this thread to be opinions..This is my way of life so to speak and to each their own for how they take it..Thank You Alastor for this thread and to Stabb for His opinions also..

the opinions here are all interesting but i have known some people that wanted to be called satanist and i felt it was for a shock factor weither or not that relates to all i dont know as long as it doesnt turn into dangerous things we all have a right to follow whatever religion we want to follow

Anything can be a religion . All it takes Is a belife system and a faith in something more powerfull than you running your life . That is why there are so many religions out there now . I mean if I went outside and started worshiping a tree who could tell me that wasn't my god if I belived ?

hmm all answer are very intresting i think that satanism can be considered a religion if you pout forth the time and dedication like the other religion however i have also met satanist who just want to be called that becouse of the shock value

And those are the kind who give the Real Satanists a bad name..Like the thread states it is an opinion thread so...

i find that satanism is a religion although there are a few different kinds of worship and practice..
i do also think it is the negative publicity that the media has done to the satanic community in which why it has a negative affect on people when mentioned.
like everything else there are the real practioners that have a true faith in satanism and then there are the wanabees who mostly are kids and those who just want to fit in and be cool,it is important to find real truth and fact and not just what is hearsay but that goes for any topic if you are looking for a real legit answer to your question.
the closest to an anti-religion i believe is athiest but then if you look at that from a whole different aspect they themselves have certian rules and codes they follow as well in their beliefs which could be catagorized as a religion.

Very well said Bloodxcreep and a very good point..I am always looking for good links to read and learn, as well as True Satanists..There is a whole nother world out there and I am looking for it now..

religion.

you could ask that about chrsitianity too if you wanted me to prove it.

christians are the anti-religion to satanism.
however satan is not the enemy of "god"
he can be but there are certain forms of satanism.
i do not believe either one is the right way.
religion is nothing but a belief that people have to explain things they can not.
i have wondered why people do not know that the unknown can not just remain unknown.
anyway:
satan does not have to be the fallen angel.
he can just be a "spirit" to guide you.
just as "god" does not half to be the father of christ.
and etcetra.

its a rebellion against god isnt it and wtf is an anitreligion o.O

madbeau, read the thread before replying, STABB666 and I had an in depth exchange on the term antireligion early in this thread.

Satanism some ppl believe that it is a Church of Atheists...but there are others who believe it to be a Church of Agnostics...i say Church b/c you don't have to have a building for it to be a church but that's off subject anywayz the satanic bible itself before it even starts it says that the RELIGION is not devil worship...i'm not sure if i've met a satanist who said that they did worship the devil the church or gathering of ppl have a thing called black mass...but all that really is, it's doing the catholic mass backwards...nothing huge but ppl put them down b/c they do not understand them eh i'll let other ppl decide what they want to believe but hey my response is just an opionon....with some facts..

With my limited knowledge on the subject, I will give you my opinion regardless. From what I know, I would say that Satanism is more of a life choice/ lifestyle. Now having said that, which side of the fence do I put Satanism on?? Well, neither, I believe while Satanism certainly has a religious aspect, however I don't believe it is out there shooting down other religions. I think it can stand on its own feet without trying to knock others down. Maybe those religions which Satanism is supposedly attacking are actually attacking Satanism. First we have to establish if there is a right and wrong religion before it can be anti, they just follow different paths with opposing views which only need affect those involved. Maybe christians are against me because I choose not to be one.
Once again, from what I understand, Satanism is centred around self indulgence, which i guess is fairly selfish, but is that such a bad thing?? If we are all capable, then why can't we all follow our own path,enjoy things because we as individuals enjoy those little indulgences instead of wondering what a whole lot of christians etc think about it all.
So satanism is just another choice in life, doesn't need to go into anybody elses life or religion.Nor is it a religion, but more like your fashion sense, you wear it because it suits your personality. Religion is when the mind is manipulated away from free thought on a repetative basis. Be selfish, make your own mind up.

I dont think it started out as a religion but a rebellion against christianity. However now it has become so big and isnt really out to destory christianity but has become more a religion.

I find it just a large cult as I do all religions.

I agree with NocnaMora, all religions are cults in disguise. You must follow their rules, believe their beliefs, worship their god(s), etc. I do believe that satanism is a religion.

That is ya'll's opinion and so be it..I disagree with that and besides not everything has to be an occult..How can that be when a Satanist can do just about everything an xtian does.. For some it is a way of life and other's a religion then to some both..to me it is my way of life and how i choose to live my life..

I believe that any 'religion' that says you must do this to be a part of the crowd is a cult. I do not attend any church, do not follow any set rules, and I touch my spiritual side in my own way. I do not believe in any god(s) because I believe spirituality is all within oneself.

A Satanist worships no-one but their-self..They hurt one as one would hurt them and have no remorse in doing so..The only cult they follow is that of the church they belong too

I have studied a few religions, Satanism is not one of them. I have found Buddhism and Shinto the most interesting. Perhaps I need to study Satanism next. I thank you for your views and surely plan to learn more about them in the near future. :)

It, like many other things unknown and been the subject of evil for may who doesnt understand it..i have to admit back when i was growing up, i thought the same..saw the movies in which it did potray as bad..But i read and studied and met the most Wonderful Mentor who showed me the true light..Who taught me much more than what reading up on it brings..Yeah the goodness in it...

I can completely understand the differences between 'reading' and 'doing'. I would be similar to reading about building a house and actually doing it. If, perhaps, I have any questions during my studies could I message you with them?

nods..will help much as i can or direct you to One who knows more

Many thanks winterdarkmoon. Thank you also Billy for showing me where to start in my studies, Crowley.

My Crowley was mis-typed. Is re-edited as Lavey. My bad - super sorry.

I never said i followed LaVey..And why cant a Satanist be legal to perform Ceremonies?

I just read a very interesting article on LaVey.

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/LaVeyBiography.html

I've been reading through this site and found it very interesting.

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

It's the OFFICIAL site of the Church of Satan.

He did have some good theories, i will say that much..And for whatever reason He had for starting the CoS... And writing the Satanic Bible, which I find very interesting as well..Crowley also had some good views, but doesnt know much about Him yet

The tenets seem reasonable, something I could embrace if i wanted to be part of a philosophical or religious community. Reminds me of Ayn Rand's "objectivism" only not so cold.

Ultimately one's view of whether Satanism is a Religion or Anti-religion reflects one's personal belief's and hidden agenda's that they seek to expand in this thread. Religion or Cult is merely a view of one's point of view and I believe that Satanism is a religion and a lifestyle.

As I posted earlier, given the information and arguments provided on this thread, regardless of what Satanism started out as, I personally am willing to give Satanism it's due as a religion.

Alastor, thank You..And You have my respect..It was earned..Wicked 2008

I am not a satanist by any means. But religion by definition is: any specific system of belief and worship, often involving a code of ethics and a philosophy
That would classify satanism a valid religion. And me being a firm believer in the bible, you know this is non-biased

I too at one time was a firm believer..I read the SB and was shocked, saw links that no-one would even think was around..And yeah i guess i am a firm believer still..In my beleifs and bible...

well to me Satanism is the first religion since it was the god Enlil from the Summerian belief system that ws made into Satan by christianity..I also happen to agree that it is also a lifestyle

I would say that Satanism started out as a rebellion against religion, and grew into it's own religion.

Also, I have to disagree in part with Soulshroude, who said:

"As religion itself is the worshipping of any said deity...Surely the self is no deity. This is both pompous and extremely vain.

While I do agree that it is extremely vain, I can see how some would believe themselves to be their own deity. If they feel they are the only ones in control of their lives, if they feel they are their own highest power, or if they have faith only in themselves, why couldn't they be their own deity?

I believe the correct answer to be both religion and anti-religion (specifically anti-Christianity), as LaVeyan Satanism really seems to consist of inverting Christian symbols and saying Christian rites backwards, though it has grown into a religion with many true believers and its own code of conduct and descriptions of deity.

The definition to antireligion according to the almighty wikipedia says:
"Antireligion is opposition to some religion. People who are antireligious may see religions as dangerous, destructive, divisive, foolish, or absurd"

If you take the first part of that, then yes. Satanism is the anti-religion to Christianity.

The whole thing tho says anti religion is one who is completly against the idea of a specific religion. Or religion in general.

Like the thread says..Your opinions..But anti religion, I dont call it that nor even think it..There are some who would say religion and some who says a way of life..To me it is both..Way i believe and live..Doesnt make me or anyOne else a bad person

I was into satanism when I was younger , I've since grown up , but satanism i believe is a religion because it operates on the same concepts as christianity ... they gather ( congregate ) they pray ( just to a different god )

Well i just found what i been looking for also..You are right in a way but if you mean we worship Satan, We dont..We worship Our-selves..Big difference

This thread has been automatically closed for length.