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Is the intent to do Magic necessary, or can magic happen if the situation is right. For example, a football team goes through a series of actions, intent on an outcome, with specific items and actions. They have specific talismans such as the field, the refs, the ball, helmets, pads etc.. The team covers the four levels of the witch's pyramid. To know, to dare, to will to keep silent. They meet in a huddle (a coven?), say specific words to call the play. All know the actions, all dare to take the actions. They will themselves physically and mentally to perform. They keep silent of their plans. The quarterback calls the play (incantation?). The whole team is focused on the outcome and their part in it. Thay take synchronized action (ritual?) They are directed by the coach. The fans will them to succeeed. The only thing keeping them from achieving their intent is the defence, performing similar rituals.

What do you think?

An Intersting question and illistration. >;] Seeing as how I view magick as a natural energy that inhabits everything in existance, I would have to say yes. This could be a very good thread I believe.

I think it would be considered raw magick,one done by will, thought you give it a new perspective for me.

you bring up an interesting point. when you put it that way i guess you could say that it is magic at work, since magic is in itself will power of the person and a belief that something will happen, then yes, i would agree with you.

actually I kinda like that thought, I think that it can and dose happen in everyday life outside of a ritual that is planned after all a ritual is just a way of focusing ones energy towards a goal, so really just about anytime some one takes the time and energy to do some thing such as scoring they are performing a kind of ritual them selfs.

i like to think of magic as unpredictable and unexplained. I love the idea of some things in life being unexplainable. I will admit to being s science geek and loving science, but i still love the element of magic. Not everything can be exlpained and have a lable slapped on it.

When you talk sports such as football the weekend of the playoffs and try to mix it with magic I think its more superstition rituals than anything else - magic has nothing to do with professional sports

What I was really wondering about, was: does a person have to intend to do magic to perform magic?

The football was an example. Does it work that way? Can you do magic by force of will or do you have to intend to do magic?

Actually that was one of the best analogies of the magiks I have ever read. In turn, I will offer you this...

Group magik no matter where it comes from, what form...Like that of your football scenerio, has its benefits. But also has its downfalls as well. Such as the other teams counter magiks.

See it as another analogy, a wizards duel if you will, an extremely large group of summoners, on the battlefield, with your analogy, with everything at the stake. Thus the prelude of light vs dark magiks appear.

A common factor when dealing with nuetral magiks in favor of teams.

(Oh my, did I just mention Light and Dark magiks instead of magik is all grey? *Chuckles*)

Hell, even churches practice this same type of thing. Just look at the sacrament.

I see what you are wanting to know I misread it before, yes I think you can do it with out setting out to in the first place, If you think about it it has probable even happend to you a time or two when you are in need of something whether it is help or money and just when you don't see any way that the help is going to happen some one shows up to lend a hand or a dollar.

first of all, this is a really good question
secondly, if you mean, someone going through a magik ritual without intending to, reciting incantation etc as is needed for the ritual, but without intention of doing magik, then yes, they could still cause it to happen unless they have a great enough controll over their personal energy.
however if you mean magik hapening just because someone wills it to strongly enough, then no i dont believe that would work.

excellent anology indeed. I had never thought of that and it gives a new outlook on the way magick is used. not that it is actual magick though.

It shines a new light on the way i look at the things around me now. I feel as if magic is everywhere :) Ty for your ideas

well there are amny counts of group magic so I dont see why any one else wouyld see it as something out of the ordinary

I think your analogy is a real good example of practical magick.

i suppose it depends on whether you think that rituals in themselves make magick or if it is a more intrinsic part of a person

The scene in which you used for an example, I don't think is an example of magick, as not all of it turns out as that.

magic does happen in every day life one way or another. since so many things can be considered magic or 'magick'

Wow, that totally changes my view on magick in todays world. Kudos

Magick of pure will....yes i believe in it.

Darl/Light/Neutral.....OMG.....magick cannot be associated with things like this....it is all because we make it all with our minds and hearts.

Magick is merely a force that can be manipulated many ways. The only dark/light/neutral is in the heart/will/intent of the artist whom has learnt to tap into it's sources.

I have never preformed any rituals or anything like that., but when ever I want for some thing to happen, it happens. This has always been for me and my family. So yes I think that magic can happen with out the big fancy ritual.

I absolutely think that magic can be done without ritual, occasionally even without intent. I know if I get in a car with someone and I am enjoying the ride and we don't have to be anywhere specific at any specific time, we seem to hit an awful number of red lights; conversely, we'll hit a lot more green lights if we need to be somewhere or if I don't really want to be with that person (ex.: my parents), whether I am pushing magic at the light controllers or not. I suspect it has something to do with my subconscious working it so the trip is longer or shorter than average.

Yes, magic can and does happen incidentally, or by accident, it is the focus point that brings it to fruitation. If enough are intent on bending a will, or causing an action, it will be bent or caused. Whether or not they are intent on the arts is of no import, the incantation of energies is the same. A very good thread indeed.

Thanks for all yor input. In summary I think we have several basic concepts:

Magic is part of everyday life and we tend to use it when we focus on an outcome, even when we don't intend to use it. We all may have used, not realizing the magic.

Group magic exists, football being one example, church sacrements and services another.

Unintentional magic may occur when following rituals, even if we don't focus.

Magic is only made by following prescribed rituals with the intent of doing magic.

Yes, I believe it is both probable and possible. No matter what beliefs you may have, there are always reports of unexpected 'magic' or 'miracles' occuring in somebody's life. Prayers are answered, wishes granted, destinies are fulfilled.
In most cases, when a 'miracle' happens, it is because somebody willed it to.

Ritual can be seen as the lighting of candles, the bending of knees... even the adornment of a garment or performance of a dance.
Incantation can be in the form of a spell, a prayer, or even a footbal play.

Therefore, magic can be found anywhere... it's all just a matter of perspective.

Interesting example. I never would have thought of football in relation to magic, so I enjoyed that you were able to make the comparison between the two.

Now, to answer the question, I believe magic can happen if the situation is right. I don't believe there has to be intent to have it happen. What is magic? An individual or group focusing all of their energy and their will on one specific outcome, right? In that case, you could consider the example of the football team. They are focusing all of their energy and will on winning. They're doing the same thing, just in a different way.

It is a good point and question that you pose . However i have to ask you this .
I work in a kitchen , My expoditer calls the orders . I have my tools my talismans , Even and altar to work on . We know the drill and go there everynight with a clear intent . Would that be magic as well . I would have to say than no . It is hard work and good leadership as well as team work .

That is a very interesting theory. I think that proves that magic happens everywhere in nature, even where it's least expected.

All I can say is WOW. Never heard it put like that before.

I do belive that magic happens all around us every day but alot of what happens in life is due to hard work an dedication

I agree skittles, much in the realm of human endeavor is basic hard work and teamwork and we shouldn't attempt to see more in it than it is.

Sometimes things go beyond just that. For the football analogy, how does momentum change in during the game. We see it happen all the time. We can almost feel it even on TV! But in person, the feeling of momentum changing can quite strong.

I think it is mostly skill that helps a team win.
However if they have enough will to win, there may be a tiny bit of magic to help them.

You have a good point with that . I guess there could be something to the idea of there being a little magic in it

Tell "the Team" ,my opinion is that in my experience, magic happens when I am in "the zone." It comes when I let go of the need to force some thing to happen.
I let the thing happen. I let go of the control. It works best when I am not emotional. I am centered, in the zone.- But what do i know?

Orrrr...just a thought...it could simply be that they made a good play.

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Stop looking for the supernatural in places where it just isn't. Alot of those 'rituals' and things you hold so dear, are so incredibly vague and open ended as to apply to just about any situation, leading more sucks to the sweet moronmilk dripping from the teat of idiocy.

Just a thought.

True look at the monks that used chi . It came from an inner peace . Some might consider chi magic

I think magic is something u do intentional and it does not just happen

A variety of opinions presented here. I think the intent seems to be the thing.

This has been a great thread a lot of different opinions. Magic is what the person intends it to be.

I think if you are able to do such things , it does become a part fo your daily life, even if unintentionally. I know it does in mine, and sometimes freaks people out.

The thing aout magic is that we see it as such because it is NOT part of everyday life. If I flew in a plane and landed outside a village in medieval England there is a good chance I would have been executed for witchcraft

An excellent metaphore! And I believe you are correct in assuming so. Magick is a part of everyday life, in every action of every day. It is a part of us and all around us, whether we "choose" to take notice or not.

thank you all for your input.

yes i believe magic can and does happen in everyday life. Like the magic of birth when someone cannot give birth or have failled for so long.

we hear and see so many things that appears to be magic in our everyday life.

Magic, I believe.. touches everyone, just as much as the power of prayer. Craig, if I was in old England, I to would of been accused of witchcraft and probably faced the ducking chair!!

That was really good ---
Listening to it like that, I would say that'a magic in every day life --

Wow what a great thread, and great topic.

I am not sure about if "Magick" can be done intentially or unintentially but I know that I have been in situations where for some strange reason the hair my arms stands up, and the situation that perhaps was heading to a negative place, is not looking up?

I mean haven't you been driving and you think " Oh shit, then before you know it, the situation clears?? ( Black ice..whatever the case may be)

Is that Magick? I know that a few times I have thought, ooohh, and for that brief second thought....Was that??? Naw, its my mind playing up, but was it really?

excellent analogy with the line-up being akin to a circle. The key is not just intent, but also involves visualization. In this situation, the players have studied the routines and practiced them. In a circle of knowledgeable practitioners, or witches, each has practiced channeling their energies --- visualized the outcome. The group strength is something to behold.

I believe if something is real it is real wether you believe in it or not

magic happens... full stop

a common example
when you smile at someone, it's like magic.... they smile back!
wow