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Psychopomp is a creature in many religious belief systems to take a soul to heaven or to hell.
Psychopomps literal translation from the Greek is "guide of the soul".
They are often most associated, with such animals as, horses, whippoorwills, ravens, dogs, crows, owls, sparrows and dolphins.

Psychopomps are found through out history and are even used in Jungian psychology as a device to mediate between the conscience and unconscience states IE; dream state versus waking state.
Researched on Wikipedia not taken directly from it

Question posed is this are they what we would refer to as spirit guides, and do you personally believe in this system ?

Mythological being guiding souls to the afterlife. I disagree with the spirit guide theory. actually until now, never heard of it.

There seems to be more to them then just taking the souls of the dead.

The Pookha a spirit of mischief is to be believed also to be a psychopomp a messenger from the veil of the fairy.

I think native peoples have used these animal forms to guide as well as take a soul of the dead. I have formed this opinion from what I have researched seems they can be a omen of evil or good.

Fair enough. I'm going to do some research to cure my ignorance on this topic, especially because I can't define what a spirit guide is with out taking a wild guess.

Excellent thread I haven't heard any one speak of these beings in a long time and had actually forgotten about them. I could see where they could be considered spirits guides though. Is an interesting concept.

Good to read about these I found this on the vudon belief of psychopomp in wikipedia.

Guédé
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In Haitian Vodou, the Guédé (also spelled Gede or Ghede, pronounced [gede] in Haitian) are the family of spirits that embody the powers of death and fertility. They are closely associated with the loa Baron (whose aspects are Baron Samedi, Baron La Croix and Baron Cimetière). Depending on the tradition followed, Baron is:

* one of the Guédé
* their spiritual father who has raised them from the dead, along with Baron Samedi's wife Maman Brigitte who is their spiritual mother
* an aspect of the Guédé

In any of these configurations, Baron, his wife Maman Brigitte, and the Guédé rule death, the cemetery and the grave.

Well known Guédé spirits include Guédé Nibo, Guédé Plumaj, Guédé Ti Malis, Guédé Zaranye, and many others. They are known for the drum rhythm and the dance called the "banda" and in possession will drink or rub themselves with a mixture of raw rum or clairin and twenty-one habanero or goat peppers.

Gede Nibo is a psychopomp and acts as an intermediary between the living and the dead, who gives voice to the dead spirits that have not been reclaimed from "below the waters".

Papa Ghede is also a psychopomp. He waits at the crossroads to take souls into the afterlife and is considered the good counterpart to Baron Samedi. He has a very crass sense of humor and a deep hatred of European-based cultures because of the sexual repression they encourage. Papa Ghede is supposed to be the corpse of the first man who ever died. He is widely recognized as a short, dark man with a high hat on his head and a cigar in his mouth and he's constantly holding an apple in his left hand. It says that he has a divine ability to read others mind and the ability to know everything that happens in the both worlds.

Ghede Bábáco is supposedly Papa Ghede's less known brother and is also a psychopomp. His role is somewhat similar to that of Papa Ghede, but he doesn't have the two very special abilitys that his brother has.

If a child is dying, Papa Ghede is prayed to. It's believed that he won't take a life before it's time, and that he will protect the little ones. He is married to Maman Brigitte.

Yes I read that as well please when posting use your own opinions not just cut and paste from Wikipedia

I do apologize for that I had just wanted to put that out there for people to look at and see what differing cultures thought regarding psychopomps. They are a very fascinating subject and I have been interested in them for some time. I found the subject of this thread regards the possibility of them being spirit guides interesting as well. So I am sorry if I offended.

I would say that Spirit guides are more into your life while you are living and being beside you. With the belief that spirit guides can change through your life and some can be for just a small amount of time, why couldn't it be that the crow or something what you mentioned is working as a spirit guide at the moment when you need to pass over?

You didn't offend me just the regulations about cutting and pasting here is strict I don't want anyone to get into trouble due to this.

I have often wondered if the native spirit guide and a psychopomp are one and the same myself.

Maybe it depends on person's belief or belief` background...

I do believe in certain belief systems use them as both like the Native peoples of the America's use the same animals as their guides in life as well as when thy pass over

Mikhail, regards Native American spirit guides, they could actually be thought of psychopomps as many psychopomps are of and animal form as are the NA cultures spirit guide. Interesting thought and I may do more research into this.

Thanks for that Mikhail, I wasn't aware of that and did go read rules on it. So now I am aware of this.

Your welcome misbegottenlust getting off subject.

Back on subject I find the thought a valid one also regards psychopomps being the same as spirit guides and have long considered this as a possibility. There are certainly many similarities between the two, the use of animals as both guides and psychopomps being one of them.

Psychopomp sounds like it should be a dance, but I was interested in the origin of the word, and found this article "Death as an Ally," which appealed to me a great deal.

http://www.positivearticles.com/Article/Death-as-an-Ally---The-Shaman-s-Perception-of-Death/21973

Basically, the author uses "psychopomp" and "shaman" interchangeably, and explains the shamanistic principle behind the guiding spirit idea.

More importantly and relevant to your question, he underlines the "fear of death," and the shaman's role in easing this process, and not just as a confessor, more as a midwife.

Spirit guides are a good idea, but I agree with Akeiana that they should be employed more while living. I seriously doubt the totemic emblems --- ravens and such --- would be much help. An actual person (shamans have no fear of death because they're already dead (???)) would be my preference.

I don't believe they are spirit guides, as the term is commonly used, but they are a form of guide that will help a soul move from this life to whatever is next.

Interesting....I haven't heard this term before. But from what little I know about this and my own personal opinions, I don't think "spirit guide" would be the most accurate title.

well my family is american Indian and we do believe in the Spirit Guides and the Spirit world. So I also feel it depends on ones belief and what they think.

Doesn't really sound like they have anything to do with each other. Seeing as psychopomps only guide your soul to where in the after-life, as spirit guides 'guide' you through-out your life.

As to the last post... it would seem these are similar in that they are spirits guiding... with one guiding to the afterlife upon death and the other throughout one's life. Also, wouldn't these spirit guides be like the ones that mediums use?

i would say that the are spirit guides and no i dont believe but that is just for lack of belief in heaven and hell or any after life but on earth

NO! NO!...Psychopomp -- The shaman's role when s/he is engaged in bringing a disembodied or dead spirit down to the Land of the Dead. The psychopomp role is not simply an extension of doing exorcisms, as many newly dead spirits ask for this service because they don't want to go down there alone. In short, a psychopomp is a shaman who walks with them to the gate.

I am A Shaman, I have given some souls assistance.

FSS- Foundation For Shaman Studies - Michael Harner

I came here alone, and I will die alone, If I have a spirit guide, it is my blood ancestors. So much is early superstition that it is hard to get at the matter. Thats just the way it is. Man-myth-magic all intertwined, do you really think they would have it any other way?

it is not some beings, or animals, or spirit guides. Spirit guides give you aid and instruction to the living to guide you through life. BTW. there is no physical hell, its only in the minds of those who were indoctrinated into thinking that there is one and you go there for eternal punishment.

I only mentioned hell due to the fact that these guides animals psychopomps are guides to the next life reality what have you. Some religious belief include a hell and it seems that these same psychpomps take the evil soul to its justice?? Not sure that is a good way of putting that.

What I have read they not only guide the dead but come during extreme duress and times when you need guidance of any kind. This has been a enduring theme for me th animals guides of which I have two one is a bear the other a red tailed hawk. I am not however schooled in native traditions. I was adopted to the way by a shaman he didn't however teach me. I was more interested then in my own religion which was Wicca and thought I knew it all. Wisdom never came easy for me. He is now dead so these quesions I must ask and learn for myself

Mikhail

I think it all depends on what your own belife structure is . I think they can be both . In some cultures you dead loved ones are revered as spirtual guides and they lso belive that they wait to usher you in to the after life

Wolfspirit, I'm with you 100% and the article whose link I posted also supports what you are saying.

It's a worthwhile read. Clear. Easy.

personally, i dont believe in spirit guides.
Or fate.
I dont believe ouf life is a set path.
Or that we need something to guide us.

You have that right indeed many need something to hold onto. I believe in an after life as well which is my right to believe in

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I know little to nothing about this, so I could not give a statement either way. However I wish to thank Mikhail, for starting this thread, because now I have something new to go study :)

I would love to have one conversation go well. I am not willing to accept your absolutes people are different have different thoughts and belief systems. Psychopomps have been around for literally centuries they cross over many belief systems including that of the Christian faith.

This is a discussion lets have one please

Psychopomps are also used as a literary device . Like in Poe's poem (Quoth the Raven Never more) or in Shakespearean plays.

I had an experience with them in real life yes I believe in them. I lived in San Jose and one year a bunch of birds I call grackles not sure what they are actually called but it is the sound they make all flew in at the same time and made the racket so much it brought my attention to the fact the river was getting higher. So I left I am not dead obliviously so they didnt take me to the other side.

I believe they are a form of animal spirit guide they can take a soul over but they also give warning to the living if the living chose to listen.

Mikhail is right in that Shakespeare does use this particular tool to enhance his stories and plays.

Additionally, if you happen to follow the Judeo-Christian/Muslim line angels escort your soul to heaven. So there you are, literature and religion combine for an interesting spotlight on an interesting subject.

i have never heard of this term, i do however believe in spirit guides or guardian angels, whatever term you prefer to use for them.

Even I have caught on to what a psychopomp is, I think. Dean Koontz even uses them in his work! He uses a kind of elk or moose (can't remember which) in Intensity as a sign for Chyna. He uses the golden retrievers in so many of his books as animal guides that seem to be ancient spirits trapped in animal bodies. He uses the raven....oh wait, wrong author! lol Actually, I think he DID use a raven in The Bad Place. Not sure. Anyway, you still find psychopomps in modern literature, so Mikhail has merely resurrected an oft-neglected term for something we're all sorta familiar with.

I do believe that the psychopomps are spirit guides because they're actually adapted versions of the Orishas, the deities/guides from Ifa, the parent path of all the religions of the African Diaspora, including Voudoun, Candomble, and Santeria.

In Ifa, the Orisha Eshu is the watchman behind the door, the guardian of the crossroads, and in his aspect as Papa Legba, he is the guide from this world to the next. His description sounds much like that of Papa Ghede from earlier in this thread.

Different Orishas have different spheres of influence and are called upon for guidance and education regarding issues within those spheres.

........UMMM ESHU is not a psychopomp

Serebro that is very interesting indeed many different belief with an almost common thread and also used in literature

As for the others no need to be obstreperous. This is a discussion to learn from each no one belief is right or wrong..DISCUSSION time kiddies. I will get a Dominiar in here to take out flaming or other non essential things if needed

I realize Eshu is an Orisha, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have the characteristics of a psychopomp. I actually called up Iya Bega and Iya Amoke last night and had a chat with them to make sure I wasn't out in left field. They both agree that it's not a common angle for people to look at the Orishas from, but it is correct, as it's an angle they had to learn before they became Iyanifa. I've only been studying Ifa for about 2 years, so I thought it would be good to double-check with them.

Serebro from my reading your right not all psychopomps are animal spirits. I realize this is also a shamanic belief but Psychopomps are well in every mythological system and most religious systems as well

Part of this mythology has to do with our own lack of knowledge about death and or an afterlife. Since it seems reasonable to assume that man's unconscious or soul may have just as much trouble finding his way as man's conscious, I think the idea of a psychopomp is to create or believe in a guide who fills in the gap for us. Someone or something that leads us to our afterlife so that it's not such a 'scary' unknown. It's not surprising to find that many animals who are seen near graveyards or are considered mysterious in their habits would be chosen to fulfil this role.

Not only the christian religion has a humanoid representation of Psychopomp creatures(see HieronYmus Bosch c.1550 painting).

The northern European religions had a human-shaped psychopomps too:
the valkyries had the mission to peak the souls of the bravest warriors and lead them after their death to the Great Halls!

I fully believe in this. During the trip from life to where ever you do end up in the end, there has to be some sort of guidance or support. Maybe not just one animal but maybe multiple animals. Most animals (like dogs) have heightened senses of danger, like when a storm is coming, when someone is sick, etc. Who is to say that doesn't follow you into a death experience.

My father in the past has had multiple surgerys, where he became unresponsive and even once where he was in a comma for two weeks during his bout with TTP. One of the few times I talked to him about it, the first thing he always recalls is a big white dog licking his hand constantly. Which comes back to the fact that animals sense danger, licking his hand to comfort him. Maybe thats just it, someone to carry you thew your passage or decide for you.

yes pschopomps are universal. what I mean is cultures from around the word have a type or form of psychomp. my debate on this is not on the types of pychopomps ....like IE the crow, shaman or what ever. They all have the same purpose not matter their name or place they came from. They are a type of guide,that is used to fury and comfort the dead.
A spirit guide is one who, guides you on your spiritual path, and gives you direction , answers etc. about your life now in the present .

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Interesting. I don't particularly believe in that, but I can see how that'd be like a spirit guide. I never knew about psychopomps though. Sounds kinda funny, haha

Psychopomp is a word translated from the Greek to say spirit guide now this said again why cant spirit guides also be psychopomps ?? My Spirit guides give me warnings and have had other animals even people give me warnings of pending danger

Sometimes spiritual guides are different from the psychopomps.See valkyries aboove ;)

Yes, spirit guides can come in many shapes sizes and forms as well as in different modes of travel , being dreams vision or things in life just tring to show us the way..

Dragonrouge, I have looked into them. I know not all the guides are animals just happens I have only dealt with the animal forms of the guides myself.

Truth is these guides come in all shapes size and species Human on down to insects

You are perfectly right about that!

I want to add that in the altaic shamanic rites some of the spiritual guides(I know of one in the shape of a wolf), does not guide only the spirits of the dead, but also the spirit of the living shaman that enters into trance and have the need to go into the lands of the dead (or any of the worlds below/above ours).
M. Eliade has a great studies about that!
This is the content of one of them:

Shamanism:
Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy

I think the difference is that a spirit guide is supposed to be there throughout your life whereas the psychopomp appears to be something more dedicated strictly to escorting the dead spirit to it's new afterlife.

Well I am native but I don't think they are really the same thing yes we have spirit guides but we also have totally separate guides to the afterlife or to take messages to the creator. our spirits are the one that is the inner you, then the one that protects you, then there are different animals for different things you do in life but only a couple that carry the souls of the dead to the next life.

I may have found a bad site because I had never heard the term psychopomps before
however in the website I will link it states they are simply shaman who sits and waits with the dying till they pass.Nothing about horses or them being more then that.

http://www.angelfire.com/moon/fae/psychopomp.html

Is there any places you could recommend me to go in order to research this a little more ?

I never thought angelfire was bad, but I might not use it as my only source. For that matter, I have to say, there are many people that quote here wikipedia. I'm back in college, getting a Bachelors and the teachers would fail your paper for using it. I have an other friend shes in an other university and they are not allowed to use wiki either. We really do need to be careful and check other sources too.

the reason why wiki is disregarded in schools is the information is filled out by everyday people like me or you and the information there could be wrong.

I am not just using Wikipedia myself although I did some reading there yes. Psychopomps are mentioned in a number of texts all over the world and they aren't just shamans they can be harbingers of doom (ie ill) or good depends on your outlook I would believe.

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