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RAAGIOSL
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14:45:00 Feb 06 2008
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The music industry is more then ever filled with bands following different occult type subcultures . Ever wonder where or how the bands decided to follow a certain subculture? Was it for publicity, was it the trendy thing to do or they truly are part of the specific subculture.? Have any examples of bands? If so can u explain why they are what they are? Personal opinions?




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Oceanne
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15:04:06 Feb 06 2008
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Hmm,well as a former professional musician,I know alot of guys who where pretty normal,but their stage show was blood thirsty,Satanic or sexual etc...A couple of them,(I wont name) actually live the lifestyle they portray 100% and then some.This is both due to their own presonal beliefs as well, as personal sexual desires and preffs...everything they write about and play is about their chosen lifestyle.



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TegoSanguisitim
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15:16:07 Feb 06 2008
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My personal opinion is this:

Bands follow a trend. If one successful band (Slayer for example) has a Satanic, anti-christian theme other bands in that musical style tend to adopt the whole theme. Kerry King is known as a Satanist but many bands that portry that image don't actually have a clue of what's it's all about.

In the 80's, the "big hair" bands were wearing make-up and feminine clothing. It was borderline crossdressing. Look at POISON, I thought they were a bunch of chics at first glance of their debut album cover. As far as I know none of them are homosexual or crass dressers or what have you. Tons of bands, pro and amateur followed suit.

The occult is fascinating and elusive to most and controversial to many. Anything that will put you in the spot light is a good marketing tool. There is no such thing as bad publicity. It's far too expensive to market a band, produce and record album, then distribute it based on four or five avarage everday, people next door, musicians.

Most "signed" artists are young and do not have an education beyond high school. I seriously doubt they were all brought up in the occult. It's just a tool.

Of course there is always the old "sold your soul for rock-n-roll" or "made a deal with devil" possibility.

If that's all I had to do I wish someone would have told me.



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Skjaldepigen
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15:20:59 Feb 06 2008
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I think most of them are doing it to provoke people. When I was still in the buisness, our band also made some provocatitve things, well one of us was a satanist but the others were christians playing along, living normal familylives. I was a wiccan and prud of it so it was mostly for publicity and getting reactions out of the audience.



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Oceanne
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15:44:11 Feb 06 2008
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Yes,PR plays a big role in alot of thier decision making as far as shock value etc...but theres some that really do live it.
Then you have the dudes who do it to get girls and stuff.



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TegoSanguisitim
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15:50:16 Feb 06 2008
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That is the ONLY reason I started playing in bands. Girls.

Then I found out I actually loved it.

I agree there are musicans that carry their personal lifestyle on to the stage with them and that's cool.



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RAAGIOSL
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15:55:37 Feb 06 2008
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I agree with the use of stage antics as a marketening tool and to grab the attention of the audience. There are a few out there who actually do follow a subculture and write their songs based on it. A good example is marilyn manson, you think he would of made it that big if he looked like bob from next door, i don't think so. Also you can compare someone like manson to a normal looking band like creed, who do you think gets more publicity.?



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Oceanne
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16:00:28 Feb 06 2008
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Now why doesnt that suprise me Tego? LOL..I bet once you got going,and where having to play those covers you had to learn songs you hated to listen to ,but where actually fun to play too..;)

Raag..I will name one after all..Dansig
.An old friend of mine was a performance artist with them for a while..let me just say this...she ended up getting out of the biz,became a born again Christain and everything..need I say more about that? Neh.



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TegoSanguisitim
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16:48:44 Feb 06 2008
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Yep. If there is a couple of cute tipsy girls in front of me I'll play shitty covers all night. It beats working a day job.



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EternalXRage
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19:11:41 Feb 06 2008
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I am a singer and writer. And most of the songs I write are from my life or my dreams. So I think that in most cases when a band shows some thing personal like that in their work, it's real, Well at least I hope it is. I can't stand sell outs. lol



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Infernalmage
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19:17:53 Feb 06 2008
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A Fire Inside = AFI is a vampire band, they have their own temple, something like temple of the midnight, or something out in berkly

Danzig is a hard core satanic band. I loves them lots.

those are just a couple i can name of the top.

Yet that comment about muscians having only a high school level of education. I have to point out that it doesn't matter what level of official education you have so long as you study all aspects of what it is your working with.

That was just a rude comment to have made in regards to what and how people practice their own paths, if they can successfully bring it out through a medium, particularly that of music, more power to them. Let them create from their work.



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DarkLadyDahlia
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19:37:54 Feb 06 2008
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i feel that most bands pull from their inner feelings and go with it not to mention many know what the public is looking for at any given point and time so they feed into the public as well, not that is a bad thing becuse it gives many of us an escape and let our true feelings out so we can relate to the music gender.



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Ravencadwell
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21:49:46 Feb 06 2008
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In the states I don't see that much of it, at least not on mainstream or rock radio. So far it's just the EMOs making the big noise. It's like the american record compainies are too scared of the Religious Reich and the parents rights groups who go apeshit anytime some decent band comes out. Shall we remember when Manson got protested by the christians? All they did was make him wealthy. Once the protesters were gone, so were half the crowds.
I'll quote Ville Valo "Hey, Spooky Sells"

As far as the Bands who are into the Occult, I don't think there's any more now than has ever been (and I've been around for a while). Some is just for show and a handfull actually live it. Either way it's kept out of the press cause it's not a great marketing tool. We all know that most of the bands getting radio play have been "Marketed" by some people in suits who wanna make $$. Shock wears off, good music and performers don't.



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PandorasBx
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01:37:20 Feb 07 2008
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It seems to me that many of these bands are not truly into the subculture, at least I can't think of any that are for sure. I feel that many of them do it because they thought it trendy or liked an established band that had that style and liked it then took on the same said style. Also many for the publicity, lets face it, being different gets you attention, it sells....



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VW39
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02:09:49 Feb 07 2008
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Some do it for the image, others do it because they follow the subculture.



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Oceanne
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02:24:23 Feb 07 2008
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I know what you mean Angel..It always comes back down to what is in the one's core.What kinda stuff do you write?



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BloodDrenchedRose
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07:12:26 Feb 07 2008
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I don't think you can ever really know the true intentions of a person without hearing it from them, and even then you would have to believe that they are telling you the truth



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xMitsix
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07:21:51 Feb 07 2008
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In my opinion, I believe that a low percentage of such bands only front as being Occult for the gimmick.
I know a guy who started a hobby band called LSRH (Lord Satan's Royal Henchmen) and I was kinda shocked by that, as he was a good little christian boy. I later found out that they only put themselves over as being an Occult band so they could get gigs LOL.



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Whispersinthewind
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08:29:58 Feb 07 2008
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If your question is whether or not metal has influence(d) society...Then please read the following.

History of Metal

There was also a documetary on the History Channel based on this as well.



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RAAGIOSL
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12:52:32 Feb 07 2008
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I agree blooddrenched, we can only asume what the true intentions of these bands are. But I think that it is a good guess that most them do for the popularity and marketing.

Raven- "spooky does sell" so does bands that play for religious affiliations, their followers buy that right up. And as for most of the occult bands not being mainstreamed I also agree how many people ever heard of the Wiccan/Pagan band "Moonstruck", They are huge in that subculture but not a peep in mainstream. Great point Raven about that, thanks for your input.



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alixaryon
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13:05:59 Feb 07 2008
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I personaly think that in most of cases these three reasons are predominant, and those are as you mentioned, for publicity, the trendy thing, or might be that they are them selfs a part of the subculture. How ever their thoughts revolve around the ideas, and subcultures, certanly, they have money like there is mud.



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RAAGIOSL
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13:17:07 Feb 07 2008
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I like your analogy, Indeed money would be the big player here. No matter what they truly stand for.



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Whispersinthewind
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13:47:12 Feb 07 2008
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Before we get off track even further with all the money and profit from the media hype...We must remember, that people were into the occult long before musical influence, regardless what was said on my provided website. The site itself was to prove a point to shed some insight.

People follow the trend of the times, if this trend is music, reading, clothing, movies etc, then so be it...We must acknowledge the occult as a seperate entity from these. People may be easily influenced, even if it is subliminals in music.

But, we must not let the conspiracies interrupt OUR way of life, no matter what way that may be to each of us.



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Oceanne
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13:49:21 Feb 07 2008
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It doesnt matter what some might be in it for..there are alwys those of us who where in it for the music,,any trend



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AlchemistDamned
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14:05:30 Feb 07 2008
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I’m sure it was simply a mix of the bands personal taste, the need for a unique image, and the desire to come across as something different and new.



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specterdrake
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18:27:20 Feb 07 2008
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i know a few differant local bands and they dont fallow any specific subculture though you may call one of them "goth"

they just fallow what they beleive in and how they were raised....but thats them....there are other bands that base there music on their life experiances



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lavisbre
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18:58:10 Feb 07 2008
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I used to organize free raves on the moors in England and a couple of the beaches.
Totally based around pagan events such as new moons sabots and so forth.
We played tribal trance and dark nu skool tech … fantastic times.
The best was when we had a wicker man party, we used to play in the Stonehenge as well till the police said we were destroying it… total lies we respect the sacred ground.
I used to have crystals infront of the DJ booth so as to catch the energy of 3000 ravers all giving it there best moves and smiling as they felt the ecstasy of the music lol
I still have the crystals



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JackofSpades83
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19:00:49 Feb 07 2008
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I have been in quite a few bands and know with a great deal of certainty that image is a large part of who you are in the public eye. Look at Alice Cooper. There are a ton of nutty stories about him, a lot of which he has disproved personally. Hell, I hear the guy has quite a mean golf game in real life and is rather mellow. Its all part of the machine. People love a juicy story.



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othis
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19:11:12 Feb 07 2008
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i think some do it for shock value others do it for there owne reasions like danni filth he is a satinic minaster and a vamp so that is what he sings about



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Oceanne
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19:28:22 Feb 07 2008
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I will tell you one thing ,I know several who are into the occult and believe wholeheartedly in their practice.Playing music,the music that opens doors for them is not uncommon ..it is going on more than you might think.And when there are lots a peeps listening and get into the freq. of the music being played..well you know.



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Oceanne
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19:29:42 Feb 07 2008
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Their production of the music they play has nothing to do with shock value,trend or anything else other than to further their agenda in their art.



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DawnofDays
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19:30:39 Feb 07 2008
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i think it is based on how you were raised up.



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Oceanne
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19:31:42 Feb 07 2008
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Or what you know,as a practitioner of the arts.



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10241024
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01:53:55 Feb 08 2008
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I think it just that the band members are into that particular scene themselves.



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lavisbre
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03:36:06 Feb 08 2008
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well i love tribal trance... melodic tribe beats and brain trancing melodies and hypnotic hooks.

we were in a mount with wave patterns on the walls and triangle ones ect all carved in the stone by the Celts .... well we solved the mystery.....

with the smoke from the smoke machine filling the chamber and the black light lite, we saw the melodic beats were making the echo in the chamber we were in make identical waves in the smoke as on the stones ... we had to look twice but identical.... history repeating me thinks...




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CrozzDeNook
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03:39:48 Feb 08 2008
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To me, I think alot of it is just a show, but there is some who are that way all the time...let them be them....lol



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RAAGIOSL
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12:52:37 Feb 08 2008
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Lets take the band H.I.M. for another example, they have the whole nine yards make-up, stage antics...etc...etc.... They are huge in the mainstream rock world. Do you think they would be where they are without all that?



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alixaryon
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13:28:02 Feb 08 2008
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I dont think so they would, it is all a part of massive global planned representation, and the money is the goal, and the biggest incentive. It is very logical to create one such band, in order to attract the masses wich are easily identifieing with their life style to it. We all know, the way every commercial move global as this goes. Theres money like there is mud.



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thegothprincess
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14:18:22 Feb 08 2008
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i love to listen to dansig an afi i also know that their are some metal bands like slayer who dont really belive in satan ism but talk a bout their religion ie cristianity and it draw backs



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boneyardvixen
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15:39:27 Feb 08 2008
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Too many artists these days are doing things simply for publicity and sales. Vanilla Ice is a great example, look how big he was yet when you see him now, he refuses to change himself to suit anyone else. Tatu is another example, they were never lesbians in real life, that was just to sell.. and the phrase sex sells really IS true!

Too many people, musical artists included, aren't true to themselves and regret it in the end.



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revblackveil65
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07:01:09 Feb 09 2008
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I have read a couple of books and a number of shorter essays on the band Led Zeppelin, active 1968-1980. Led Zeppelin’s music is one of the sonic memories from my youth and early teenage years; during those years, it was still new and fresh, and considered groundbreaking by many.

One of the books chronicling Zeppelin is “Hammer of the Gods,” by Stephen Davis, c. 1985, published by William Morrow and Company. I am skeptical about Davis’s factual assertions, and wary that he may have exaggerated the hedonistic persona and occult tendencies of the band, but he does provide a detailed chronology about the evolution of the band over time.

Cameron Crowe’s shorter essays, such as the one accompanying the box set of “The Complete Studio Recordings,” are probably more factually reliable – Crowe was one of few trusted journalists regularly allowed into Led Zeppelin’s inner circle, so many of his perceptions are firsthand. Crowe is sincere in his respect for the band members as musicians and as people; consequently, his essays are reverential, seldom critical, and divulge little about the members’ personal lives outside of the band.

However, Davis and Crowe generally agree that Jimmy Page throughout his own life cultivated a very deep personal interest in the life, work, and occult philosophy of Aleister Crowley. Over the years, Page has acquired several items of Crowley memorabilia, such as books used and ceremonial garments worn by Crowley during various rituals. From Page’s own perspective, his interest in occult philosophy generally, and in Crowley specifically, was quite sincere. Page did not necessarily actively promote that interest for profit, but did not necessarily shrink from what publicity or profit his interest in the occult may have inured to him, or to Zeppelin as a collective musical entity, over the years.

Page’s interest in the occult almost certainly influenced his music. Page, like his contemporary Jimi Hendrix, was a product of – perhaps it is more accurate to say both were progenitors of – the psychedelic era of Rock guitar that flourished circa 1967-1971. Hendrix’s technical acumen was better, at least on electric guitar (one can make a rational argument that Page’s actual strength was his acoustic playing), but there are striking stylistic differences between the two that are not explained by differences in ability. Each used feedback, distortion, and various other electronic effects in ways that other guitarists could not duplicate. But Hendrix’s collective body of work on the whole evoked a jazzy, trippy, bright feel; he was known for producing flute and bird-like effects through his amplifiers. From the first Zeppelin album recorded in October 1968 and through the entire course of the band’s recordings, Page’s musical feel was often dark, heavy, and sonorous. He tended toward producing repetitive, heavy, ominous droning effects in addition to whatever else was going on musically in the recording.

Page’s musical sensibilities meshed well with the lyric style of the band’s vocalist and principal wordsmith, Robert Plant. Whether Plant held a sincere, overt interest in the occult of similar caliber to Page’s is not well documented. But Davis and Crowe basically agree that Plant was intelligent, well read, and interested in a vast array of topics, including Nordic and Celtic myth and legend, and Druidism. Plant often referenced such subject matter in the lyrics he composed for Led Zeppelin over the years. Davis, at least, maintains that Plant did insert oblique references to the occult or Satan (Davis tends to lump these two together; I do not necessarily agree they are one and the same) into Led Zeppelin’s lyrics from time to time. I have listened to each of Led Zeppelin’s original studio albums repeatedly over the years. I cannot think of an obvious instance where Plant made an overt, unequivocal statement of occult belief, but there are more than a few instances where the words are obscure and one cannot discern with certainty what Plant said or intended.

The collective members of Led Zeppelin were intelligent, musically creative people (according to writers like Davis, they could be difficult, arrogant, and occasionally cruel on a personal level – However, the same can be said of most members of the human race as well). I was raised Catholic, although I continue to struggle making sense of my Christian belief s and try to keep an open mind about various paths which people sincerely follow in searching for spiritual truth. I part company with those who would condemn either Zeppelin, or those who listen to Zeppelin, on grounds of the occult influences which may have affected the band. If Led Zeppelin was influenced by occult ideas or beliefs, on balance I appreciate that they were. Without harnessing such influences in making their music, the band would not have accomplished the unique, distinctive, lasting, beautiful body of work that is their legacy.






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RAAGIOSL
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15:23:44 Feb 09 2008
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Great read Revblack, I was truly impressed by your words. I am bumping this up to the front for others to read.


I was most impressed with your closing line, this sums up about everything that was discussed here. *shakes hand*

"Without harnessing such influences in making their music, the band would not have accomplished the unique, distinctive, lasting, beautiful body of work that is their legacy. "



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bloodraven6978
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05:25:56 Mar 06 2008
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I think that they are problaly quite normal but use the occult gig to sell their music to those types of people.



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LumiyaOfTheSith
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04:50:59 Mar 08 2008
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A few musicians and bands used occult for their music and their personas because it sold well... for instance Alice Cooper - that's strictly his act. In real life, he's nothing like what he portrays on stage.

Remember years ago (ok, I'm dating myself) with the buzz about playing albums backwards for satanic verse, etc?



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winterdarkmoon
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05:10:01 Mar 08 2008
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I remember that...And this is exactly what Deann and I was talking about..Ppl stereo type you just for the music you like or the pics you have...And why cant they see is it is my choice to like what i want and who is to say that the Bands I like are Satanic? Just because of Their symbols and music...Doesnt mean these ppl are like that for real..And so what if They are..Doesnt make Us bad or evil ppl or even Devil Worshippers...



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HeartoftheGreyWinged
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05:25:33 Mar 08 2008
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People that feel certain ways, which may be shunned by the rest of society, will group together in different "clicks" to feel as though they fit in somewhere. As they are shunned more and more by the world around them, their love for the group increases. As their affinity to their fellow outcasts goes up, so to does their confidence in the group they have allied themselves with. There comes a time when they feel confident enough to express themselves as des every other "click" on this planet. Its only a matter of time til they come out in the music industry.

As for whether or not they are actually part of the sub group... some may be. Others may just be paying tribute to the sub cultures or immulating them as a way of making themselves as much like them as possible. Others might worship them... who knows.



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Sevenn
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05:34:31 Mar 08 2008
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There are (at least) two different sides to this:

Art: People who actually write music that is coming from thier personhood/soul

Entertainment: Doing what needs to be done to sell things for money.

(True) Art, in many cases, doesn't make money. Entertainment often does.

You gotta be able to sell it baby, and this is where ALL of the references drop about selling your soul. Entertainment is smoke and mirrors, but it pays well. "Art" doesn't pay unless you are dead.



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xLoreleix
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07:05:35 Mar 08 2008
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I can't help but think that they are following their lifestyle and choose to go in that direction musically. People that love to play jazz play jazz, those that love the classics play the classics, it all boils down to personal choice.

I also think people are reaching out and wanting to explore unknown territory. And music is a perfect medium to do exactly that.



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winterdarkmoon
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09:06:42 Mar 08 2008
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I agree with You Sevenn....But this person only sees what she wishes to see..I am talking about real life and a know it all neighbor at that..You walk into my House, You dont see Satanic Things, You dont see my Altar, My Candles...My Grandbabies doesnt see nor hear anything about my beliefs or likes...I do not force anything down anyOne's throat...And I agree is it for MONEY...



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ForeverBlack
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09:31:16 Mar 08 2008
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it sometimes depends on the record label when it comes to this, as for the big labels, for the most part, they dont give you creative freedom, and they control your image, as for the indy labels or smaller labels they give bands more creative freedom and let them be who they want to be, so with some i would say sure its their lifestyle, and some are doing it for money and cause they have to, but as i said its just something that all depends on the situation



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NaTaS
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09:51:14 Mar 08 2008
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Well if some manager can make money over publishing their band as "christian" GAG. Then why not any other.

There are some good satanic bands in countries you would never think. like Iraq for instance.



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winterdarkmoon
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09:58:11 Mar 08 2008
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I was thinking more in line as Norway..Dimmu Borgir...I love Them and yes They represent Satanism...Who knows how They live and Who truly cares? The narrowminded thats who...I like Them for Them and Their music and not for what They represent...



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Heartstrings
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10:18:17 Mar 08 2008
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i think bands some follow the current trend cause all they see are dollar signs but some the ones that stick around tend to follow what they believe in



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RedFlavour
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14:49:28 Mar 08 2008
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yes i know some of the bands who are just following the trends...
but many of those follow just because they feel the same as well as others who started it first.



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Oceanne
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16:45:30 Mar 08 2008
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I know for me and alot of guys I played with it was all about the music.As long as we got to play,we were doin ok.When we got to the point we got paid,then we where doin great.Everyone of us wanted to play the music we loved most.



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winterdarkmoon
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17:32:22 Mar 08 2008
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That is very true..If the trend is selling, well let it sell...I mean You have to make money some how...



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LAZARUSAD
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18:59:28 Mar 08 2008
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Mick Jagger sold his soul for rock and roll and has made millions. He better keep singing or The Man is going to collect! :)
"Mick Jagger presents songs around the Geri chair" lol

I have know both types of band members; those that honestly are trying to spread the word of Satan and believe that they are in the service of their lord, much like any missionary today, and then the others that are just staging for the buck. I'd have to say in my experience it's been about a 50/50 split so far.



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LumiyaOfTheSith
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02:13:58 Mar 09 2008
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To many, what they sing, how they dress, and on stage persona is more or less what they are in real life - others, just a shtick to make moola - and moola they make!

Does anyone remember the 80s movie, The Gate? There was a band that made one album, all satanic with a book that came with the album and when played backwards and used the album book, literally opened a gate to hell... don't know why I flashed there, but kinda goes with the thread.



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H3LiX
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04:20:36 Mar 09 2008
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It is true that the music industry is filling with a lot of artists and groups that follow one or another occult type. Some it's all for publicity others they do it because that's how they met.

I know of one band that are dedicated Satanists, Alkaline Trio. they were actually interviewed by one of the more popular metal magazines (though the name escapes me) about it. But they state in the interview they are all members of the church of Satan and follow a specific code. I know I have the interview somewhere. I'll post again if I can find it with more details.



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winterdarkmoon
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05:24:23 Mar 09 2008
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If that is how They believe then that is Their business...If it is to make money also Their business but to judge ones by what they listen to or wear isnt....But that is narrowminded ppl and so be it...I am me and me i will stay no matter who calls me what...Doesnt make me evil for what i like so...



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Stormwind
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05:46:41 Mar 09 2008
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Personal opinion - the big labels will latch on to anything that they think will turn them a profit. Music is so "demographically targeted" at this point it's ridiculous, and quality has gone out the window...



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winterdarkmoon
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05:56:31 Mar 09 2008
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I agree Stormwind...But If that group is Satanist that is their business...I like their music and yes i am Satanist by choice but i do not follow it because of groups..



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LumiyaOfTheSith
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05:58:59 Mar 09 2008
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Demographics and what sells a group, music and albums is what works.



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Stormwind
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05:59:16 Mar 09 2008
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I guess at the end of the day is ANY group what they proclaim to be, or is it just "pro-wrestling"? Some probably are, but others are playing the part given to them by their producers...



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winterdarkmoon
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06:01:14 Mar 09 2008
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Exactly..Their Gimmick to make money...



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winterdarkmoon
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08:57:09 Mar 09 2008
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Take TON for example alot of things happened to Peter Steele and now they have changed alot...Sure they are still great but 1 He filed His fangs down and that was a trademark of His....They were Vampiric, guess still is but wasnt never hardly things like You hear of the Other Bands that represent Satanism



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TaintedXTeddy
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22:42:30 Mar 11 2008
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In reality...does it really matter if a band you like is what they portray to be...most of it has to do with the money and what the current trend may be...it is what sells.

What matters most is the music and whether or not you like it...as long as the band playing it is enjoying themselves and you are enjoying the music that is really all that matters.

I don't think that lifestyle has anything to do with it at all...some do what the producers tell them to do in order to make money...but then there are those who do what they love to do...regardless of what everyone else thinks.

My son had a band and had a local producer come and talk with the boys and us parents (they were all under the age of 18)....he told the boys that he really liked their music but should do cover because that is what the crowd wants...but I have to hand it to my son and his band...they didn't do cover..they did all original work and the local crowds loved them. They didn't sell themselves out or who they were as individuals in order to please the masses...they stayed true to themselves and their music.

Too bad more bands don't do that....



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VW39
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17:51:52 Mar 22 2008
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Every band changes over time.

Peter Steele, I'm guessing didn't start out wearing the 'fangs' when he was in Carnivore, considering the ... lyrics.



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Pai
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18:08:10 Mar 22 2008
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People's taste in music changes all the time, I think this fact includes bands themselves...Sure it's a business so they want to keep up, and sometimes they just want to play the music they enjoy...The fans don't always appreciate it and sometimes they make other fans depending on the genre or style they have.



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RainbowPrincess
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06:13:42 Mar 24 2008
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I believe it is totally up to the individual artist and the type of music they may have grown up around or listened to all their lives.



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Dragonrouge
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15:15:22 Mar 24 2008
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The metal bands start to sing what they want and many are interested in religious and occult theme.That`s not bad because this theme is totally avoid by music we can see on TV and that has big publicity usually.

Many bands that are good on debut and make fans through concerts have the chance to be observed by Labels that can do a professional publicity and give them a higher level of producing their music.

However many of these labes impose a certain trend to the young band.So there are two options:
- accept the changes imposed and go on a bigger level, even if sometimes that destrys the originality of the band
- keep singing in underground and try to survive assuring their music production from their own pockets.
That`s why so many good metal bands become the so called "cult bands".
Unfortunately in the moment that metal becomes an institution or (worst) an industry it begins to loose originality.

I think that`s an explanation for a higher level of metal coming from the Old Continent instead of US scene: the commerce over the music instead the other way around.

"SPIRITUS agitat molem" it was the latin saying.



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xdarkxchildx
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16:45:23 Mar 24 2008
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i belive some bands do it because they know it will sell but others just are that way



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catseye
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21:12:56 Mar 24 2008
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they make more money that way.its part of the appeal



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Ayana
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22:19:15 Mar 24 2008
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i agree with TegoSanguisitim



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RavynDarkrose
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01:59:52 Mar 25 2008
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I think since bands like Kiss and musicians like Ozzy and Alice Cooper that some try to copy them, but I also think it's what is the new pop culture at the time. You had the flower power and the bell bottoms of the sixties and seventies, the big hair of the eighties and so on, but for when it comes down to the core of it no matter the image I think the vast majority of musicians are there for the music.



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Thedog
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02:08:18 Mar 25 2008
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I think the majority of bands have mixed in the occult in order to play into the mental fantasies of their listeners.

Now there are some of those Norse death metal bands that I would second guess whether it was an act.

Make their mystic go through the roof...



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madbeau
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02:58:39 Mar 25 2008
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bands all follow a trend of some sort, dont know if anyone has said this already but slayer is a metal "satanic" band yet the band members themselves are christians



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neiklot
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19:56:16 Mar 25 2008
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I'm sure that many have different reasons. Some may do it for the money and therefore follow the current popular occult. Others may have just had influences that followed a certian one so they do the same and then others might truely be a part of it. Everyone has different reasons for the things they do in life... or do they?



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RAAGIOSL
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12:32:43 Mar 26 2008
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This has been a most informative thread, I thank you all for your input.



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SILENTRUNNING
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13:12:54 Mar 26 2008
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We all know of some of the stoties, the so-called 'pacts with the devil' etc of certain people of bands, and whilst taking it with a pinch of salt, such things are real;, and perhaps do happen, but this is in the shadows of conjecture, supposition, unproven...

It is so true that to push a band forward or a singer, shock tactics are often the best to employ, but then there are people such as GG Allyn who are definitely 'of their image', yet Alice cooper was the son of a Minister, and was firmly 'tongue in cheek', but boy, did the Alice Cooper Machine work so very well!

Such bands and singers will do what most of the sheep of society, conditioned little darlings that most of them are, are afraid to do, so these people do it for them on vinyl, cd, video, tv, live, whatever, and it suits a Society to allow it, as it expunges from the followers perhaps something far more dangerous, if their 'errant energy' were not taken from them by their chosen idols...;)

Ade



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Theshining1
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13:34:44 Mar 26 2008
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for example rock stars coming over to country, they go to were the money is..



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skully418
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14:06:58 Mar 26 2008
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ooh! I actually have something to contribute for once....


http://illuminenaughty.net/


These are some friends of mine that actually ran a Thelemic organization for many years. He decided music was a more effective medium for him to work with, and I'm pleased with the results.



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MistressBloodDiamonds
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01:15:34 Mar 27 2008
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Well I h ave heard of one. And I am surprised that I have never seen it mentioned here on VR.

On NINs Record Pretty Hate machine there is a song that I was told that they lyrics are a vampires blood rite. Now as far as I know Trent Reznor is not a Vampire or really even into vampires. Hes dark and yes Goth but not a vampire. So I dont know



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SithPadawan
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01:19:49 Mar 27 2008
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Forgive my intrusion here, but this is like asking if the Pope is Catholic, in my humble and benign opinion.

Maybe it's the age I am...growing up with Rush, Floyd, Led Zepplin and all the rest of the cast of Don Kirshner's Rock Concert can do that to a person.



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Meridiana
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13:27:38 Mar 29 2008
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I think that musicians, like artists of other sorts, do what they do because they love the music. Do some "sell out," or use particular tactics as marketing tools to sell albums? Of course! However, as a person who enjoys a wide variety of music, I can appreciate the music for the music's sake. I'm not one to follow the artists' lives, but I will buy their albums. From what I hear, one of my favorite bands, Inkubus Sukkubus, actually lives the vampyre lifestype -- but I don't know for sure. Do I care? Not really. Whether or not the band members really live the life has no impact on my appreciation of their music. I'm not a religious person, but I can appreciate Bach's cantatas -- music back then was often written for church services, and musicians survived by writing religious music, or by being patronized by the nobility. The same principle applies today; a reasonable amount of money is necessary in order for musicians to reach a wider audience.



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lavisbre
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17:04:46 Mar 29 2008
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Well I do see what your saying just because a record can be played backwards and the devil talks is no reason not enjoy the music… even if the lyrics are totally malevolent lol

Looking back to the pope statement lol
Even though he was in the Hitler youth movement and anti aircraft regiment he didn’t support the Hitler way…. He supports catholic faith.

Same for music on a less serious note just cause a songs words sing of occult meaning n thoughts doesn’t make you occult….or does it? Lol

I think we need to take it on individual case by case as some are just not occult and only a image. Others… very occult.



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Languor
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17:25:48 Mar 29 2008
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I believe Music is what draws alot of ppl to different beliefs. The ppl who belong in each of these different areas is what makes the music popular.



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KioshisKeeper
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22:19:03 Mar 29 2008
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I would think most draw from their own personal lifestyles and experiences, but there has to be some that just do it for shock value or it's the IN thing to do.



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Pantervamp
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23:11:27 Apr 07 2008
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art have alot to do with it. rockbands tend to use dark stuff because it in many ways is connected in so many peoples opinions.



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MistressBloodDiamonds
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23:39:29 Apr 07 2008
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Most music is inspired by things going on it the writers life. MOST but not all.

One thats I LOL at all the time even tho I love the song is "Animal" From NickleBack Its written as if the singer is a teen but hes well into his 30's or 40's... LOL



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00:05:52 Apr 08 2008
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I have seen some bands that follow the ocult ways and thats ok with me



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Lagniappe
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00:09:21 Apr 15 2008
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Maybe it's the other way around- the occult following the music industry. In many cases... lyrics are not what people use them for. Bands are not always into what their fans are.



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Sulky0Uya
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00:35:36 Apr 15 2008
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band do what they think that they can make the most money and they might also like doing it as well.



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DawnofDays
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01:38:31 Apr 15 2008
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i guess that they like it so much that they want to sing it for all to hear.



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xXxSlaveAngelxXx
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13:31:25 Apr 15 2008
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personal opinion: I think it's a 50/50 thing... 50% of the bands that claim the occult lifestyle for their band live it and the other 50% do it for the love of music and just like the way the occult style is... I don't really have an example though and I appologize for that...



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LumiyaOfTheSith
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The House of Umbrae Octo is a member of an Alliance

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17:01:38 Apr 15 2008
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What were the bands that supposedly had LPs/records that you played backwards for all sorts of satanic stuff? Where there really ones like that or just another urban legend?



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xNyxxGoddessx
xNyxxGoddessx
Necromancer (96)
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19:38:39 Apr 15 2008
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its theatrics. everyone has to have their edge or 'gimmic' to be just different enough to be popular.



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becomethesea
becomethesea

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21:36:44 Apr 15 2008
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I don't really see any particular subcultures spawning out of supposed occult-related bands. Marilyn Manson is the only act that even comes close, and they have even admitted a lot of what they do is more for shock value than anything else.

So with the exception of very few artists most likely on independent contracts, I would say there is no real connection with seeming occult-related bands and growing subcultures.



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CemeteryMAN
CemeteryMAN
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23:50:35 Apr 15 2008
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sorry guys cant help u here. but my brother is in a band. let me contack him and ill repost. sorry



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XSilverxMoonxNightX
XSilverxMoonxNightX
Dybbuk (76)
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02:11:09 Apr 16 2008
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I think that it is simply the thing that many ppl want the dakness the satanic desire in the music :) ever play a record backwards and hear the devil speaking through it? mmmm i wondered :) just a thought!



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VR System
VR System

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02:11:09 Apr 16 2008
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Apr 16 2008  •

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