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Iv noticed a hardcore group of none believers in vampires/ ghost vampires. They do however have a religious faith, I find this odd

If you believe in god you must believe in the devil, if you believe them then you must in angels and so you must believe in demons.

Why do you have trouble believing in the form of vampire which is as demon as you get?
I know about books and films, there is no smoke with out a fire.
So to stop redundant comments based on ann rice as proof not to believe as it is only a book need the book slammed into your heads for not reading the first post.

So im asking you can believe in one and not the other?


Please tell, lets talk I wish to understand.

I do believe in dark forces. I do believe in God.

There is always a dark force lurking. many open portals to dark forces. Before I do any type of tarot reading...I surround myself in the white light.

If there is light...there has to be darknesses.

Your post barely makes any sense. Just to clarify- are you asking why some people have faith in God, but do not believe in vampires?

If so, I fail to see the relevance, since faith in a form of God hardly relates to belief in a semi-fictional supernatural creature.

It is absolutely not necessary to believe in vampires if one has faith in God. Your supposition is fundamentally flawed, since you have approached it from a narrowly Judeo-Christian aspect.

Also, vampires are not entirely synonymous with the concept of demons/fallen angels within the Christian system of belief, although there is a lot that could be suggested.

Careful with the word "must." People's belief structure can be complex. For example, I haven't met many Christians who don't believe in the Devil; however I know plenty of people who have a concept if "God," but don't believe in the devil.

That said Lav, it sounds like you were getting flamed for your beliefs, and that's not cool. =(

My friend, you should work on your grammar. You are a bit confusing.

I'm a proud Christian of the Protestant/Lutheran/whatever you wish to deem it faith, and yes, I believe there may be vampires and myth-based beasties out there.

I don't however, believe anyone has to believe in both. After all, vampirism can be explained through scientific methods to a point and people don't mix religion in it. Many Christians, Jews, and others of a different faith don't think vampires exist, even though they believe in demons or other similar maniacal creatures. Demons and vampires can be two entirely different things depending on the beliefs centered around them.

Please clarify your question.

I believe in god and the devil, But I dont believe in vampires. I just dont think that any being exists that is a vampire, I just think there are people that belive they are

To say you believe in God but not the Devil is irrational. This does not mean that you have to believe in Vampires. I can believe in God and the Devil but discontinue the thought of the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot.

I believe in God and the devil and all of the above but as has already been stated I don't necessarily see vampirism as demonic or evil either.

For a creature of my age I believe that I am very informed religiously. I am a Christian. I do believe in vampires(I may be one). The bible even speaks of blood suckers so there is realy no reason not to.

I believe in myth, legend...Religion has nothing to do with these two beliefs. As for a god or a devil, I believe in neither, since I am a Universalist, I believe in energy and its habits of forming certain products of metaphysical proportion.

To call these metaphysical products gods, angels, devils and or demons is within individual perception alone.

Your saying I have to? I don't. I have a religious conviction and my faith has nothing to do with my logic in not believing in vampires, and ghosts...I do believe there is a devil I do not believe in demons...I believe in angels and the reason being is that the devil known as Satan was one of gods angels gone rogue.

I don't have trouble its just insanity to me. My religion as I have said many times gives me faith and makes me a better stronger person. But I do not believe in it 100%.

Just because I believe in angels from the sole purpose of the bible doesn't mean I have to believe in anything else. For me it is hard to explain it is a very personal thing to me.

I can say one thing and it will most likely be twisted into something that was totally off base with my actual meaning.

Mietal You are so right...religious beliefs are personal for everyone of us.

I am of not one religion, nor do I study one religion.

I think some of us, or all of us has had personal experiences in our beliefs...which to me is most of the private matter.

It is nice for everyone to be opened...without agruement.

For it is our only personal belief and faith. Whatever path we choose.

There is blind faith, and faith based on evidence, then there is faith based on instinct or inner knowledge.

I confess Lav I find most of your beliefs to be utterly bewildering, due in part to your methods of exploration.

I have no problem reading anyones beliefs if they in turn do not mind being questioned in a polite fashion.

What I object to is hints being given, then on further questioning certain people saying they can say no more, it's all a secret......well then don't say anything at all.

I dont think someone can believe in one thing and not its counterpart. I believe greatly that there are two sides of every coin. One positive and one negative. The object is to flip the coin to the side that best represents your own thoughts and feelings.

I'm with Stabb and a few others on this one. God and vampires have nothing to do with eachother. Heck, I will go so far as say God and Hell, Demons, Angels, or anything BUT God have nothing to do with eachother.

I believe in God.. to an extent, but that doesn't mean I have to believe in everything else super-natural aswell. That mind-set may actually put you in a crazy house..

"Why do you have trouble believing in the form of vampire which is as demon as you get?"
By making this statement you are labeling vampires as demons.....which they are not.
By making that assumption, I can see where your question (no matter if I agree or not) came from.
I believe in God as well as the devil, I also believe that there are other "beings" (for the lack of a better word) but one has nothing to do with the other.

Don’t mean to be a pain Stabb most religions I know have a good and bad god n devil angels n demons. As were in a western area of the world it would be pointless not to speak of the main religions in the west.
You said there not entirely synonymous, this also means there is association.
My point is why ignore one when you believe in the other, especially when the other talks of such things as real as there gods?
This is not targeting this is just common ground for western religions

The second part to this concept is if one believes in vampires why don’t you believe in god…….. would that of been dissected as much?

Really meeper?

If god has no devil then he has nothing to compare to?
Good is no longer good if it doesn’t have bad?
The universe is balanced with opposing forces north south ect.
Do you see my point good becomes nothing with nothing to show it is good

It would just be god not good not evil just is … so I find that the flawed perspective.
Still your welcome to only believe in god… or good… or angel or not.
It is flawed

Much as I agree with much that Stabb wrote earlier in this thread, I feel that one can believe in one without the other .. for examople: Out of 'the garden', having lost our innocence, man became the devil of his own making. A thought.. and certainly as valid as any doctrine.

Just because you can list a binary dichotomy it is not inherently true. By associating one with the other it does nothing to prove that either parts of the equation exists let alone both of them.

Binary oppositions can not be true if you argue one has less than the other ie male n female, if the male has some thing female doesn’t then does that make the other less…. I say no the female has as much abilities as the male.
This also flows into the post you cant have all good … evil cant be less or good wouldn’t be.
But thanks for your opinion

Thanks stab I do see your point your saying one can believe in good and not evil.
Even if the good you believe states there must be evil.
The flaw is im taking it to far from the tree to and including vampire or succubus or ghost which your saying all not meant to exists just good, if I add all religions to the mix?

lavisbre,

No, that is not really what I am saying. The point is, that good and evil are non-specific, generalised concepts which are relative to the individual's moral values.

Again, I have some issue in deciphering your post, but I will close my argument on this topic with the statement that it is not logical to validate the existence of one specific idea, through the use of another idea which encapsulates a broad context, such as faith in God.

By this logic which you have attempted to use, one could say that a person has to believe in aliens, because they have faith in God, because God created the universe.

Do you see the flaw here yet?

Do I believe in God(s) and Goddess, but I don't believe in the Christian god. I don't believe in satan or the devil. I don't believe in heaven or hell but I do believe in a type of underworld. And yes, I do have faith.

I agree with MysticWinds...I believe in Dark Forces and Unknown, I also believe in Satan and God but I follow the Left Hand Path...I believe in Angels and Demons and yes Vampires..I do not mean HollyWood Type either...

I believe in God, therfore also Devil/demons. Ido not believe in "hollywood" vamp. were-wolfs ect. But Nessi is something else,who knows whats down there.

I honestly believe you can not have one without the other. there is God and satan himself is a fallen angel .

I believe in god and the devil, But I believe in vampires. I just think there are people that belive they are as i said before vampires walk among us now we don't see god or the devil but we know there there and vampires are also there we just don't see them

I am a Southren Baptist, so yes I do believe in God and the devil. And, I also believe that Vampires and ghosts are real. Honestly, I think that most people that say they don't believe in ghosts or vampires is eaither very closed minded ooor, they are just in denial..

Yes it is possible and I also believe it is possible to belive in other entities no matter what religion you are.

Just because a person believes in God does not mean that the person believes in the devil. I believe in God but do not believe in the devil. I see no reason to. He is associated with several different religions so is part of their faith not mine. So depending on the religion of the person depends on whether or not they believe in the devil.

I do not believe in vampyres solely because they are just not possible. People can follow a vampyric lifestyle but they will never have the traits that are associated with true vampyres. I believe in God because I feel that life was too unique to have been created by something else. I can believe in one but not the other because of my beliefs on the two.

I don't understand why people can say they don't believe in both when they believe in one or the other. You can't have one with out the other it's almost an exact science. Anyone who says they believe in god or the devil and not the other is hugely confused in life. Now if they said the they have faith in one then ok but I have come across so many people that say they believe that god exists and the devil doesn't and vise versa. the worst of it is these people who say they are christians. I hope one day these confused group of individuals find peace of mind and accept the truth for what it really is.

It is only certain religions that believe in both God and the devil. Just because someone does not believe in both does not mean that they are confused in life. But we are getting off topic.

I believe in God and not the devil, and I'm not confused in life by any means whatsoever. But anyways.. I agree, this has gone way off-topic. I just wanted to state my opinion on drew's comment.

You can honestly believe that good and evil are is within the one and the same diety as it is with mankind. Faith is basically what one believes so I do believe that you can have one without the other.

Right off the bat...

A person is not required to believe in anything based on them believing something else.

There are Christinan religions that believe in a God, but do not believe in a Satan or a Hell.

Faith and belief are based on the faith one has in the existance of something and belief that things that are not tangible, visible, provable, etc. indeed do exist.

I really do believe (because I have faith) that there are people who believe in the existance of vampires, but do not believe in god(s), devils, demons, angels, etc.

I know this, because faith and belief are based on an individual person.

Lavisbre, your other comments stray from your original argument and are still quite confusing, but I understand that you're asking about the need for both the existence of good and evil, because without one, you can't distinguish the other.

True, but that doesn't mean you need both God and the Devil, as some people don't believe in one of them while supporting the existence of the other. I have spoken with other Christians who, despite stories such as the serpent who tempted Eve, don't believe in the Devil. They argue that God--though good in essence--allowed for the existence of evil in the form of the fruit and the disobedience displayed by Adam and Eve, which allowed choice, rather than blind loyalty if God had not placed the Tree there.

You're views are also rather narrow, as you are only placing Christian/Jewish beliefs into this debate of Good and Evil. Many pagan beliefs don't have a "Devil" figure in them and judge evil only through men's actions.

This still doesn't place any value in your first question comparing faith with vampires, which is much like comparing politics with dogs.

I think stab had stated it well, where question makes sense under specific cerrcumstances. If we assume those circumstances, should we assume a believe in a mythical vampire?

Over history several types of demons were mentioned in these traditions, succubi, inncubi, etc... but a vampire wasn't necessarily mentioned in these traditions as a demon.

Some of these traditions state their believes succintly in a "creed". These creeds usually state things about the god and certain actions of the god. These creeds are presented as a list of beliefs required of the participants. You may have attended the "confirmation" ceremony of a relative or a friend, which is a rite of passage in many of these traditions. They typically state the list of beliefs. I have not noticed, in any of these a requirement by the tradition to believe in demons.

I certainly am no expert in demons, but a mythical vampire started as a human. Do demons begin as humans or are of other origin?

I dont really belive in somekind of all powerfull god as example the christians do. But i cant see any reason to why people have to belive in every aspects when they for example belive in god? For me that dont make sence.

In an attempt to better answer LaVisbre's second point/question, here's the "Reader's Digest" version of my earlier entry:

All that is created requires an intelligent, sentient creator. All that is destroyed, however, does not.

Thus, "God" as Creator is a necessity in religion where Intelligent Design is the foundational belief. Obviously, you can't have creation (intelligent design) without the Designer/Creator behind it.

However "Satan" (or equivalent being), in the role of the ultimate "Destroyer" of all that God has created, is not necessary given that destruction occurs throughout Nature without requiring the presence or participation of some intelligent sentient being acting to accomplish such.

Thus, all creation requires a Creator (e.g., "God") whereas all destruction does not require a Destroyer (e.g., Satan).

Hence... it is completely logical to believe in "God" and not in "Satan."

No you can't .... I agree with you completly. You can't have one and not the other ...

I use to believe in god but now I dont, only because the people I really cared about and they believe in god treated me unfairly and unjust which I found different to what they preach. I dont put anyone down for their beliefs just dont try and force it onto me.

I find the truth about Vampires hard to believe in the fact that that people base it on what they see and read...I do however believe in the theory of a vampire...being a blood sucking creature. Hell there is enuff proof around stating the fact...ie, leaches, bats (the true blood drinking kind...not the myth type) and the list goes on and on.

Like religion there is heaps of proof but people in their wisdom push it beyound belief.

I have to fall in line behind Stabb on this one, with a grateful nod to Soulshroude for allowing some creative wiggle room. When people start throwing the word "logical" around, their supporting beliefs usually have to do with their own personal interpretations, not in some universal law. The world comes out of us, and we come out of the world; this little circle jerk philosophy is completely satisfying to me. As far as intelligent design is concerned, my only comment is that intelligent does not mean without flaw.

hmmm.... very nice perspectives here... and no, i will not comment about this or that post... instead i will give my point of view in this matter... valid as any other post... after all it's a ll a matter of faith, no?

well, believing in the God of the bible and in everything that it is stated there, is not a blind faith... it is completely the opposite, look what the bible says about faith first:

Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

FAITH IS: the evidence of things not seen...

so, if your faith in God is not an evidence, then, you do not believe in God... you believe in a religion or in what others said...

anyone can read in the book of Acts, that receiving the Holy Ghost is a supernatural fact, and the ones that receive Him will obtain supernatural gifts in the blink of an eye... an EVIDENCE of ones faith... one of the things that happened was that, unlettered mans started to talk in other languages without even know how to read their own language... and again, an EVIDENCE of their faith...

if anyone wants to find God, then, read the bible and ask Him to give you a supernatural EVIDENCE of His existence...

true faith is NOT a blind thing...

as for the real and supernatural vampires, i have my proofs already and i will not discuss this with anyone... if you want to find a supernatural vampire, stop searching for them in the internet and start searching with intelligence and creativity... they are extremely hard to find... but it is possible... if i could, so can you... do you want a tip? start your search in England... go there and start looking for them in the villages, not in the big cities...

As this is not a religious forum, nor was it LaVisbre's intent to create one, your response is not relevant to this particular discussion.

As for your view that your faith is not blind, I would counter that any belief based solely on 2,000+ year-old hearsay evidence could hardly be more blind. If the best you can do is to state that God exists because the Bible says so is as ludicrous as me saying that vampires exist because Anne Rice's books say so... and because when i think about vampires I get a "supernatural" feeling as evidence that they do.

well you do have a valid point.God is faith in something you cant see.as with vampires personally i have never seen one (that i know of)

i believe in gods but no "devil" i believe that there is a god of death that rules over the plane for those that do not make it to the temple of the gods but i believe not in angles nor demon bit merly helpers of the gods

I believe their are people that are living vampires and psychic vampires..But Hollywood vampires.. well lets just say I have faith in human imagination. I have faith that the universe will always right it's self.

you raise a good point. but i believe that some of these people choose not to believe bcause if the reality was that such things as demons egsisted than these people would be terrified

There has to be bad for there to be good. So, yes there is a God and a Satan. I don't see why vampire couldn't exist as I see it as a lifestyle choice. I don't believe they are immortal however, but I am just a person and am not all knowing.

The topic has been dragged too far away from the original premise.