Greetings,
With regards to the so-called immortal and creatures of expended longevity... such as vamps, weres, demons... etc...
Do this creatures still have similar morals and ethics or do these things become belittled when one has such a lengthy existence?
What ethics would a creature such as these lose first? Which, if any, would remain?
This one should be very self explanatory to say the least...Those with kind hearts call for the virtues of humankind. Those of whom tred the darker side of life tend to go their own path. This is usually where the stereotype of the "satanist" comes into play.
Is it really THAT obvious?
I doubt it... for even the truly good, driven by a hunger such as a vampire's thirst would develop a somewhat less ethical nature...
You would only think that because we are human and there main source of food.
Is a lion less ethical because it must hunt and kill to survive?
I think they would just become different if they had forever to live and were predators.
When you have forever, appreciating things doesn't matter as much. I think it would be easy to take for granted what you assume will always be there.
I suppose it would depend on what the individual would consider Ethical...
Some could apply the same thing to how we slaughter animals.
Is it ethical to just kill any cow so we can distribute meat?
Or should we only kill the bad or mean cows who bully other cows and have no cow ethics of their own?
Such as in "Interview With a Vampire".
Kill only criminals and mean people?
I wonder if the animals we hunt believe in ethics, and if they do, what they think about us.
Is that supposedly what makes humans better than animals?
How are we to judge?
It's true many animals kill when they don't need to feed. It's a primal instinct perhaps. I don't think that has anything to do with ethics.
If someone wanted to measure whether or not we're better than animals simply because of ethics, I would think it to be a complete joke.
Even if we do have ethics, they usually only apply to other humans, or animals that are cute and fuzzy or bring us the paper.
We may think the cruelty of animals and senseless slaughtering of other human beings is wrong...But it's not stopping.
Sure other animals have wars, it would be stupid to say they don't, and yes they do sometimes kill needlessly...
I don't think we're better than animals simply because we have ethics. Ethics these days seem more like delusions to me.
I would think animals would be governed over us in this manner...Speaking about the common good of all things, unconditional love, and the family bond. Animals tend to have a distinct appreciation as well as approach to this behavioral pattern.
morals an ethics apply more to things that are conscience and arent immortal...lol
frankly there would be no reason for them to develope any kinda of morals...
if some routine is not set then boredum could cause an infinite being to "snap".but if a too strict routine is imposed then the same result could happen.
I don't think you'd ever really lose morals/ethics, they just will change over time. Just like any human.
I would think it would depend on what type of person they were before they turned, if they were extremly moral then I doubt it would change a lot even over forever.
Considering I have never met one with an infinate life span I don't really believe it is possible.
However, if it were - why would they be different after being changed? I would think their morals would be the same.
I would think after quiet a long time of being good, I would start to wonder how the other side lives. I might think that if my life could never end, i'd have plenty of time to go back to being good after trying out the bad for a while. I think it would get very boring living with immortality hanging it's everlasting head over me.
Well, if you must feed on humans, and you once were a human...Obviously some of your morals and ethics will change.
As far as which ones...Probably the ones that involve not sucking the life out of people.
Infinite complexity possible with vampires, so in addition to being debased, go along to get along, angst ridden and experimental, I'll go for the vampire who wallows in humanity, maybe even has those little German children collectibles. What are they called?
I believe it would depend on the person him/herself. Depending on their circumstances in their longevity, would help to mold how they would be later on. Some could become bored with all they have attempted now becoming commonplace.. or perhaps they would work to help others and try to make themselves feel productive, or worthwhile.
Others may just feel the world belongs to them.. many choices!
Ethics and morals are relative to a civilization or society. The christian of europe at one time thought that attacking middle eastern cities was not ethical but a moral obligation. Just a hundred years ago, slavery was ethical and moral in this country. A hundred years ago flogging was a moral and ethical punishement. When I was a kid, spanking was moral and ethical, now it is criminal.
If a being has an infinate lifespan, it's ethics and morals would be relative to its' own situation.
I think it strongly depends on the person's ethics and morals prior to becoming whatever they became.
I have no doubt that most people would abandon their morals for a time, and maybe gain them back...I mean, going nuts...Basically, with the idea of "I'm not getting into heaven, why not be evil, because I'm not going to hell, either."
But with age, generally comes being wise. So as they age, and learn, you would think they would realize that living an evil existence isn't satisfying, so they would probably change over time.
But I think it depends on the individual.
I understand what you are saying Kryptick, but what individuals believe is affected by the groups that they are in. If a being is immortal, some of those groups may not have the same morals as mortals.
I'm with you Kryptick. A successfully long-lived vampire would have learned to live under the radar, and (in response to 102ChessGuy) to use the current system of laws, ethics, pop morals, to her advantage. But her ultimate survival is so inextricably intertwined with humanity that I think there would be a bit of reverence.
Plus, going back to current trends influencing a vamp, there are so many willing donors, it would be unnecessary to bleed and pillage.
i think the longer they live the more ethics and morals they have you can only sink so low then you have to start rising again sort of like trial and error
Perhaps not necessary but still it is in vampire's most primal nature to hunt and feed
I think the longer life span, or infinite, should motivate even more on cultivation of the highest ideals, like peace, prosperity, evolution of the mind, ect. It shouldnt deturiate in to negativity, becuse one can say that he is not alive than at all, no matter the life span, beacuse to endugle in negativity is contrary to how the things are, and should be with everything.
That depends on what you class as negativity
Is feeding on another human's life negative?
Is being a predator negative?
I am sure it is ok to fullfill our needs, and there is no problem about the way our technical nature desires about it, beacuse mutual collaboration, and understanding of each and the needs leads to evolution in the environment/mind. I am saying that in this case of feeding from somebody, one doesnt need to be negative and ferral, but the point is to come to mutual understanding, if thats what you asked. I believe it is important to evolve a good heart. Why go down on ethics and morals, if everything can evolve to perfection, in a very easy way understanding each other. These ideals are usualy ignored and ppl tend toward wrongness beacuse they simply lack in discipline, not to mention how
any life span wouldnt help to survive if the discipline of the environment is not understood, but automaticly leads to destruction, no matter how hard one tryes.
I think they would have to redefine the ethics.. So may still carry over from their mortal exsistence. However, a vampires view on the value of life would obviously change due to their need to feed.
I agree Wensala, the value of life would change due to feeding, but also due to the lenght of the immortal's life.
Hunting and feeding are two separate endeavors.
Feeding: Vampires can live off animal blood, commercial blood products, and go for long periods w/o blood. Circulating human blood may be the connossieur's preference, but a daily drained victim would require extraordinary resources of cover-up, even in an urban area.
Hunting: is more psychological (maybe even pathological depending on the individual). This preference is an acquired taste, not instinctual. That is, it wasn't delivered along with the magic creating the undead.
The one thing you must understand is that as immortals ethics and morals can fade away, but only to those who let them, you can tell who has let them go they usually lose all sense of ever being human and become primitive beasts, usually staying to themselves. But those of us who have kept there morals and ethics or at least most of them, end up being just like any normal mortal on the outside, but we are different on the inside. This would explain bigfoot.
Bigfoot is a figment of over exposed rumors of a huge ape in the woods. No one lives forever.
My spirit is a universal one, I have been, and shall always be, until the breeding out of my ancestral flesh. With my kind there is a inherited, genetically built in moral and ethical code, created over time immortal, and to deviate too far from it would create chaos and bring certain death to many.
But Lasarusad, would that code of ethics and morals be similar to most human codes. How different is it?
When I eat regular food, I feel a sense of ethics toward the cow. I certainly want it to life a happy life, I want it killed in a humane manner, painlessly if possible. But in the end, the cow will die and I will eat it. Would an immortal vampire view humans in the same way? Probably. Yes, treat it humanely, but in the end it must die so I can feed. The ethical treatment of humans would be similar to our ethical treatment of cattle.
I agree with Radu...I think we would gain more as we continue. and maybe work harder to get it.
Hopefully, that individual would wish to learn and grow and absorb what the world has to offer. Travel all around and soak up what there is from different cultures and lifestyles. Think alot could depend on the type of person before the change as to what they could become. Perhaps they went off the deep end of morality and over time, changed and learned how to do things about their existance differently.
I would hope that person grew and learned over their lifetime.
It all depends on if the creature in question had strong ethics when he or she had not a infinate life span.
If they did, it probably would have transferred over with them and stay.
I would think it would depend on the individual and their beliefs and their good verses evil in themselves as to whether they have ethics or morals and what they may be...being as they are immortal though could effect their thought process in this manner also.
I think that after a couple hundred years you'd gradually start to lose your grip on reality, and therefore forget the morals and ethics you had as a mortal...
For the sake of discussing the question directly, I'll address these creatures as if they would exist for an extended life span...since I really do not believe they are immortal and cannot cease to exist.
Each of the creature mentioned, the vamp, the were, the demon, etc. all are capable of free choice. Therefore, they are allowed to be instilled with the ethics and/or morals of there upbringing, their environment, their beliefs, and their needs.
For example, the vamp may have choose to have the ethics of fellow vamps to not reveal their existance, to not kill victims/donors (or at least not too many of them).
Their morals may vary from revering life and all living beings, or be carefree killers.
It is a choice, and their choices define the morals and ethics that they adhere to, just like the rest of us.
Now, that does not mean the they will not be influenced by peer or society pressure...just like us.
You think about the changes in your own ethics and morals throughout your life. When you were a child, it was simple. As you became a teen into early adult hood, things changed. Life is not so simple. The way you look at things change.
I would have to believe that something that lives for a thousand years will have an evolving sense of morals and ethics, based on what they have experienced.
I look at this question from a personal perspective. What would I do.....
I know my surroundings would weigh heavily. To be around for an infinite amount of time, that would mean I would have seen everything from revolutionary wars to peace treaties. It depends on where they are. You see fictional characters that give up on humans as a whole species. Think about it, if you lived for centuries and saw mankind making the same mistakes over and over and the deterioration of the world, would your ethics and morals change? After trying to be the "Good guy", having the power and knowledge of the ages to try and make a positive difference with no results, one might get discouraged and change thier views and with that, their morals and ethics.
yes no matter what these creatures still have morals that they live by. whether we belive that they have good morals or bad morals they still have morals.
Immortals or not, it's all about the soul. If they have a good soul, they will have good intentions and morals, and never lose them. If they are, however, evil creatures, then obviously they will only do harm upon everyone, including themselves, and possibly try to cause mass destruction.
Obviously a being that has forever to live will not appreciate things nearly as much, but that doesn't mean they will instantly throw away all of their morals.
It truly depends on what that particular individual went through in their previous life as a mortal.
Then again, everyone can change...
I think ethic and morals depend on what they believe about the normal people around them if you think about it we treat the world around us bad because we do not see them as equal. we kill animal for fun and sport and we destroy where they live cause we can so it depends on if they look at us as equals.
would you be reffering to the ethics and morals between the cults or of each cult
Easy first to go is "thou shall not kill" hey I'm thirsty. Living forever means forgeting till death do you part. With one for 1,ooo of yrs. Most cann't make 10 yrs.
Morals and ethics would boil down to whether the individual viewed her vampirism to be a curse or a blessing.
i think it would depend upon whether that person had a good heart to start with and decent morals before they were gifted eternal life.
I have to agree with Kontradiction... Adaptation is a key to this also... if the person wants to fit well enough into society that they are not singled out then their morals will grow as they do... If the person doesn't care about anything then their moral ground is compromised...
but their moral fiber is something within and dont chang easily
No matter if I was here a day or forever, it will always be.... thee to thee comes back by three and do as ye will and harm ye none...
SCIENCE: Biomedicine, Nanotechnology and other strategies
We start, as is proper, by defining the subject matter. What is immortality? How can we define it in a scientifically sensible manner? Is immortality even biologically possible? These and other questions will be addressed in "Biological Immortality" by Michael R. Rose, Professor of evolutionary biology at the University of California, Irvine and author of Evolutionary Biology of Aging, a book that created a complete departure from the views that had dominated the field of aging research since the 1960's. We will learn that far from being a scientific impossibility, there are now good reasons for thinking that biological immortality is fundamentally possible.If aging can, in theory, be conquered – how would, how should we go about it?
Aubrey de Grey, an authority in the field of anti-aging theory from Cambridge University, outlines a general strategy for proceeding with "The War on Aging." In his essay, Aubrey de Grey touches on numerous issues, both scientific and societal, that will be taken up later in the book After these introductions, we move to consider individual aspects of this strategy.
Firstly, on the biomedical side, microbiologist João Pedro de Magalhães provides a summary overview of how "The Dream of Elixir Vitae" might be realized. One of the most topical and promising approaches to extending healthy life span is stem cell tissue engineering. Michael West, president of Advanced Cell Technology and one of the "founding fathers" of modern stem cell research has written "Therapeutic Cloning." It gives us an exciting insight not only into the scientific background, but also into his very personal experiences and hopes in relation to the conquest of death.
While stem cell research is still an immensely dynamic field, we have recently seen the emergence of another exciting area of potential anti-aging treatments: "Nanomedicine" – the science of creating medical devices through nanoscale and eventually molecular manufacturing – has received intense media scrutiny and generous public funding in the US and Europe. Robert A. Freitas, a true pioneer in this area, describes how tiny machines could be effective in the conquest of death.
As a special bonus, a second part of this chapter, including numerous illustrations, is published online.Once inspired to consider molecular-sized machines, we are not limited to healing and repairing our aging bodies: Ray Kurzweil, well known futurist and the recipient of the 1999 US National Medal of Technology introduces us to "Human Body Version 2.0," where advanced technology constructs and defines the very substance that we are made of.This introduces a second vision of immortality, one that ventures beyond biology.
Dr. William Sims Bainbridge, Deputy Director for the Division of Information and Intelligent Systems at the National Science Foundation, considers how digital information about personality, feelings, likes and dislikes can be recorded. By archiving the uniqueness of a person, we might achieve some "Progress toward Cyberimmortality." But can we be more ambitious? Will we one day be able to copy our 'selves' onto a computer?"Will Robots Inherit the Earth?" asks Professor Marvin Minsky, who in 1959 co-founded what became the MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. He proposes humankind will indeed leave behind the constraints of biological mortality – not only conquering death, but also expanding in consciousness.
"All very well," one might contend. But will these predictions come true within our own life spans? For those who seek to conquer death, dreams of a distant future might not suffice. However, Dr. Brian Wowk, physicist and cryobiologist introduces us to "Medical Time Travel" via cryopreservation – the science of maintaining the human brain until the scientific predictions that we were considering in this section have indeed come to pass.
http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/search?invocationType=topsearchbox.search&query=Ethics+and+Morals+of+those+with+an+infinite+lifespan
Well, it would depend a lot on the means by which the being with an extended lifespan lives. I'm guessing we're talking about vampires, so you have to consider in the case of a vampire that somehow fits all the mythological stereotypes and has to drink the blood of living beings in order to further survival. Therein can lay a debate on morals and ethics. Does a that steals the life away from its victim deserve to be called a murder? Really, there are a million different branches of questions of morals and ethics attached to your question.
woow good thread this is information i needed to know. ty guys been a real help for me
It all depends on the individual I think. Some will hold on to what they believe in. But I think that most would end up giving into darker things as time passed.
vamps need blood to live, they need the inciline in the blood.
otherwise they would die
I don't think they'd lose any ethics, aside from, possibly, not killing.
I think without a code of morals or ethics would make an immortal no better than a wild animal. Having a code of ethics puts us above the animal kingdom because it is a conscious choice to do so.
All in all it boils down to a persons personality and how much integrity they have.
I don't think an immortal would give up on their morals or ethics due to a long life. I think their morals and ethics would become stronger, and self-protective if anything.
your morals don't change unless you change as a person, regardless of the length of your life.
i think its what their born into. for example: vampire feeds it cant live with out blood
Lorelei -
Aren't vampires they considered less savage than a wild animal?
wouldnt that depend on the person the were.
Kind hearted would still carry into the next life and so would those with a mean heart.
I would have to ask you all this: have your morals and ethics changed over yourown short lifespan. Do you now look at things differently that you did just 10 years ago, how about 20 years.
I think just like now they will change with time. The older we get the more stuff we will start to dislike. I believe the longer a vampire lives the more it will start to dislike. Alot of people don't like change and I don't see why for a vampire it wouldn't be any different.
that there would not be much change apart from not valuing life as much because it will last forever...
All creatures, demon, were, vampire, etc., have their own ethics and morals along with lifestyles.
Just ask someone who is. (Duh)
Which is why the forum thread opened to begin with (Duh).
But seriously though, Would the vampire even after living for several centuries really have a differance of opinion of what morals and ethics ment? Or would the intelligence take over and pondering begin?
The beast within is easily sated. Thus the master vampire would know how to control such actions. Even though the frenzy may cause a bit of frustration, does not mean the vampire has no will over what they are doing regarding the "hunt".
Take the movie: Interview With The Vampire for example, Lestat had his ethics, as to which to take...Beggars, or aristocracy. Do his ethics change over the course of the movie, regarding centuries? Not in the slightest. He always maintains the balance instinctively.
Human beings are the only animals with ethics and morals
we are killers in one form another. we kill cow and other animals to live on so we are not any better then vampire but they just need blood.
I don't think the term killers can be applied to everyone though.
I dont think they would lose any ethics or morals...I would think they would develope better ones with all the time they have to learn.
I think peoples ethics change over time and would continue to change the longer they lived.
Ethics and morals are only guidelines put in place by your peers so that society can have direction, regardless if that direction is right.
But your question regards those that live outside the system of the society.
There are always ethics and morals. If there weren't there would be simple anarchy. They may end up being very individual to the person/creature concerned, but there have to be lines and goal posts, lover. *smiles*
I am sure their are ethical and morals related to the eternal life span possible. More related to how they respond to each other I am sure their are more social issue if you are going to have to deal with each other forever.