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Zombies and Voodoism
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BLOODLIFE
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21:06:07 Jan 04 2009
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Most religions have their tenets and doctrines embedded in faith and a belief in 'goodness'. Some religions quite literally put the fear of G-d into people and are steeped in evil.

One such religion is Haitian Vodou or Vaudou (Anglicized as Voodoo).

Aspects of this religion are the zombies. Their defining feature seems to be that they lack free will, and perhaps lack a soul, sound familiar? Haitian zombies were once normal people, but underwent zombification by a "bokor" through spell or potion, and are afterwards used as slaves.

Do you think it's Hollywood that has taken a simple religion and personified it completely out of proportion or is it that our imagination wants to believe that this type of witchcraft still exists?




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tigerzplay
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21:09:01 Jan 04 2009
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I really think that this was a part of the religion and perhaps still is. However hollywood has glorified the personification of this religion and its components.



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LordWolf
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22:13:41 Jan 04 2009
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my understanding is that the zombie is a part of voodoo...but hollyweird always changes things, glorifies things, twists things etc.
and to think, some people learn all they know of history from the movies! lol



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Artume
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23:14:08 Jan 04 2009
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The zombi from the Voodun practice does exist. It is not a belief, but a fact. There are certain alchemical properties that an individual, if they are careful in making the toxin, can create for whichever means they wish to fullfill. Though the individual does not die from the powder, they do go into a catatonic state where their mind is still very much active, but their heart shows the appearance of stoppage.

After several hours, the individual will wake from the zombi state but brain damage is rumoured to occur. In the state, the individual has no control over its body since the voodun practitioner uses a soulpot to store the zombi's spirit in so to speak. Then with the help of the voodun Loa, the practitioner may have full control over said zombi.



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dabbler
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23:26:27 Jan 04 2009
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Voodo is also a network, a network based on Favor, and Intimadation.

Speaking bad of a priest, or priestess is akin to cursing your house ( those you live with) .



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La6Muerte66
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23:28:12 Jan 04 2009
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As I read somewhere, the 'potions' contain a strong dose of deleriants and hallucinogens, one of which often being a tropane alkaloid like Datura. The zombie is given a regular dose of this every so often and is kept in an obedient stupor indefinitely. There would doubtless be permanent brain damage from taking tropane alkaloids and then being exposed to Caribbean temperatures.



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dabbler
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23:58:39 Jan 04 2009
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Some place the person in a coffin, then tell them they are buried alive.

I knew two people who attend Voodo Rites. Not all voodo is the sensational
Rituals though, just like not all Christians are Penecostals ( a more sensational denomination of Christianity).



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Bloodmother
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00:42:34 Jan 05 2009
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Never heard about non-Hollywood zombies eating flesh.

Being a slave is never good, although many profiles here proclaim it. Maybe they should relabel themselves zombies.



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DecemberNemesis
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01:47:45 Jan 05 2009
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Voudun is one religion/spiritual practice I would be real damn polite around. It's got different rules so to speak, and as has already been mentioned, it doesnt take much to drug someone into such a state. It's also not beyond the possibility of brain damage being caused by the drugs.

Also not impossible to mess with someone's mind to such a degree as to convince them they have no will of their own anymore. Breaking them down to such a state their eyes actually can appear to be "soulless". It would seem to me that if one were to drug someone into a zombified state, the breaking them down mentally would also likely occur.



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La6Muerte66
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02:04:53 Jan 05 2009
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Well once they've been drugged, they're almost incapable of independent rational thought. The delirium caused by these drugs is so complete that you're no longer aware of your surroundings. You're, in a sense, soulless.



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temporary2
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02:24:03 Jan 05 2009
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Tetrodotoxin from puffer fish; portions of a marine toad (Bufo marinus), which produces numerous toxic substances; and Datura stramonium, also known as jimson weed have been associated with the process in which Voudoun practioners induce the psuedodeath and reserection of their "Zombie" slave. More details are given in the two references below.

REFERENCES:

How Stuff Works - Zombie Page

Dead Man Walking - Biology Online



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Artume
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06:33:17 Jan 05 2009
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You see, the differance between the Hollywood style zombi(e), and the traditional zomb(i), is the fact that the traditional zomb(i) does not eat the flesh of the living nor does it crave anything like that. They are usually messengers of bad omen, or homicidal individuals of whom are summoned for the endeavors of a maniacle individual bent on destroying another out of revenge. Someone of whom apparently "deserved" the zomb(i) in the first place.

Though through traditional ritual and ceremony, the zomb(i) is there usually in place as a messenger for the Loa. The priest or priestess of the ceremony would have full control over the zomb(i) or individual in the catatonic like state.

I do know certain individuals who are participants in these ceremonies, so my facts are from individual account and not from books themselves.



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BLOODLIFE
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10:11:00 Jan 05 2009
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The Vodou religion, although quite young (1522 ish) is very complex but it does have a structure.
Like most religions I think that we have come to sensationalize the 'Dark' aspects as it could be said to be more interesting.



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LivNdedGirl
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12:43:59 Jan 05 2009
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once again i referance the movie
"the serpant and the rainbow" for facts

as far as hollywood and what they have done with zombies and voodoo just a way to keep people in fear of what they dont understand



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WitchyPooh
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13:34:58 Jan 05 2009
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i feel ... that hollywood takes one fact and runs with it .. thus creating fear into people.. so they can make a quick buck...people often fear what they dont understand .. and most dont really want to understand... at least that is my opinion



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Bloodmother
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16:20:47 Jan 05 2009
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Is it really a religion? What is its structure?



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dabbler
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16:35:42 Jan 05 2009
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Soul shroud you make me shiver yet again. Voodo love potions/charms are said to be very effective, this fact relates to the precharm ritual, along with the network past benificiaries of such charms are instructed in their role, not
fufulling the role can create social unrest for the devotee.



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BLOODLIFE
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17:12:31 Jan 05 2009
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Bloodmother~

Yes it really is a religion ...
Vodou (also spelled Voodoo, Vaudoux, and Vodun), commonly known as Sevis Ginea or “Ginea (African) service”, is the traditional religion and culture of the Haitian people. Some people use the term “Voodoo” to include any and all African-based diasporic religious traditions as they have survived in the West (such as Santeria/Lukumi in Cuba, Candomble and Umbanda in Brazil, etc.), but this is can be inaccurate and misleading. The word Vodou identifies a very specific set of similarly related traditional practices. In addition to Vodou as it is practiced in Haiti, there is also Vodun in Africa, which remains the “parent” or root religion of Haitian Vodou, though its contemporary form is no longer what it was during the time of the Atlantic slave trade. The two traditions have evolved independent of each other for the past 250 years. There is also Voodoo or Hoodoo (a variant form of Afro-based magical practice) as it exists in the Southern United States. For our purposes, we will briefly define Vodou as it is practiced in Haiti, for this is the focus of this web site.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou

http://www.vodouspirit.com/vodoufaq.htm



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cadrewolf
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17:20:39 Jan 05 2009
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yes voodoo any its link to the undead as zombies is a tale for their religion and culture. a good film uyet not glorified is " The Serpent and the Rainbow"

Yet Hollywood has taken the religious acts of this and made its once again glorified monster. soon it will take its place with the fab four, wolfman, dracula frankenstein, the mummy and than comes day of the dead.

Huh..... zombies donot eatfleash like the movies personafi, but i think become more slaves to the controller. dead without emotion or thought.



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La6Muerte66
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17:56:21 Jan 05 2009
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Because this question was answered only a few posts back...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Vodou

http://www.vodouspirit.com/vodoufaq.htm



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dabbler
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18:08:07 Jan 05 2009
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There is also psueso-voodo, which is theatric in nature, done for entertainment, or even confidence scams. Though there are exceptions.
I would visit a voodo shop in New Orleans. I would like to attend a congragation as well. I am sure they have an difference of opinion on the belief/ practice. Very informative thread.



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Bloodmother
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19:56:20 Jan 05 2009
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Wonder why the African practitioners who were transported to the South during the height of the slave trade didn't use voodoo on their owners? could have changed the course of history.



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Bloodmother
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21:21:38 Jan 05 2009
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Maybe they lost their shamans. In America, their practice became a mix of what they remembered: watered down voodoo and misunderstood Christianity. I like your white wolf, btw.



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cadrewolf
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21:51:30 Jan 05 2009
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Thanks Blood mother, many points on religion in america has become washed and faded. because lack of practice and knowledge in the old ways.

Like superstaitions from the old have been lost or revamped(sorry the pun" to fit modern time.

Never have been to new orleans yet always wanted to go for the day of the dead ceromony. been to mexico and europe for it. was fasinating. alot of hertiage in things like that.



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BLOODLIFE
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00:25:11 Jan 06 2009
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New Orleans Voodoo or Louisiana Voodoo as it's sometimes called are still types of African diaspora. So there are bound to be some differences but the origins are still the same.



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cadrewolf
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00:30:14 Jan 06 2009
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just like other religious or practices, it depends on the region and origin of somethings. we see that alot with languages and there slangs.

Lousinana do they have the ceromnies to honor the dead too, was wondering, need to plan a trip their never hear too much about it...



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BLOODLIFE
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00:54:31 Jan 06 2009
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I know this post may digress some what but get a load of this....

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Voodoo-Doll

.....I found it toally amusing!

It would seem it's not just Hollywood that likes a giggle too.



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tigerzplay
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01:58:05 Jan 06 2009
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ok I feel the need to ask this question. It is a proven fact and documented proof of the ability for a practitioner of the Vaudun to create what is called a zombie so with that said here is my question.

What is the difference between a zombie or a drug induced slave? or is there even a difference in this instance.


http://homepage.mac.com/drmaryann/AfroCuban.html
http://www.techniciansofthesacred.com/new_page_10.htm

I have found these sites very insightful.



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La6Muerte66
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02:07:11 Jan 06 2009
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There is no difference. The drug-induced slave IS the zombie. The 'potion' is given to the victim during a ritual, they give the appearance of being dead, are 'risen from the grave', and put to work for the master, provided they regularly get a dose of the potion (aka potent hallucinogens).



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ForbiddenTemptation
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02:48:31 Jan 06 2009
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Zombies are by far blood sucking creatures
they are more or less like a messanger of the darkness or omen or other kin
From beyond our exsitance
IF a zombie eats flesh and blood then it is some kind of spell cast upon them or they were turned that way



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La6Muerte66
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03:24:28 Jan 06 2009
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Zombies are by far blood sucking creatures

I think you mean vampires.

they are more or less like a messanger of the darkness or omen or other kin
From beyond our exsitance


Traditionally, they're a reanimated corpse. That's all. Where are all these other claims coming from?

IF a zombie eats flesh and blood then it is some kind of spell cast upon them or they were turned that way

If a zombie eats flesh, it's on a TV screen, because they don't exist in the real world.


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DaemonAzraelLaVey
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04:43:16 Jan 06 2009
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it seems like a rhetorical question you are asking. of course its been stolen and abused, just like the rest of hollywood does to everything and they seem to concentrate on the sacred because it contains the most mystery to the general public giving more room to bastardize it. i hate hollywood. (but love movies... i know.)



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ThothLestat
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17:30:17 Jan 06 2009
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In response to the original question, I think what Hollywood has done is worse than merely twist and exaggerate a simple religion. It vilified voodoo by grossly misrepresenting it and defaming its practitioners. It's not difficult to see the subtext of such a mis-characterization:
calumny.



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cadrewolf
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17:52:20 Jan 06 2009
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Thothlestat, great post and merely right, Hollywoods versions seem to hippen the myth or fables of our culture and heritage.

look at the beast from BRAY ROAD. Hollywood took a generic fable and added its own illusions to make it a movie that sells.

Voodism and zombies are the same, wether its drug induced or what ever hollywood has now taken the zombie to a higher level of monster.



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ThothLestat
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18:36:50 Jan 06 2009
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True, and I'd add that Hollywood is still using the Zombie as a metaphor for something dark and evil. However, instead of defaming little-known religions or minorities, they have moved on to anti-biotech and anti-science themes, using zombies to play on our fears & ignorance -- (28 Days Later*, and to an extent I Am Legend**) are recent examples -- that's why I think Romero's zombies were the best, as far as political metaphors go.

* not exactly a product of Hollywood
** not exactly zombies

I think it's interesting that The Skeleton Key was actually about hoodoo, rather than voodoo. In any case, the practice is shown in the worst light possible (transferring souls into younger bodies! paralysis!) and appears to be absent of any good qualities (good luck, good health, prosperity, etc.).

It's certainly promoting a negative cultural stereotype...
*cough*southerners*cough*



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dabbler
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19:12:15 Jan 06 2009
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Then there was the Segal movie, Hard to Kill, that shows the Voodo Network in action, the Twin Villian Accounting for his power, the way one of his hench men jumped out a window when captured rather then giving info.

So Lousiania Voodo, is a more novelty practice of Voodo?



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ThothLestat
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19:37:41 Jan 06 2009
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Hmmm, Dab, I didn't expect you to go all Seagal on me. I think you mean Marked for Death.

Either way, I don't think Rastafarian drug lords would embrace voodoo, but at any rate its use in the movie is to defame the gangs (they're not just bad, see, they're sinister), as if the audience needed any further reinforcement that these were 'bad guys' who needed killin'.

Perhaps Mr Seagal was a metaphor for zombies.
(oh, the irony!)



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La6Muerte66
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22:13:54 Jan 06 2009
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Herbert West: Reanimator. It tells of a med student who decided that death was a disease, and could therefore be cured. He studies for years, comes up with a formula, and starts reanimating corpses.... that then begin eating people.

There are a few colleges that had started the Campus Crusade for Cthulhu, to combat the Campus Crusade for Christ. lol.



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La6Muerte66
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23:18:22 Jan 06 2009
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They made a movie after it, starring Jeffrey Combs. It was loosely based on the story, but hardly. Then they made two sequels, that were progressively worse.



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cadrewolf
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00:28:58 Jan 07 2009
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Yeah class C movies, yet depection was based on a cross of frankenstein and night of the dead. what junk but ure it will make a cult classic movie.



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La6Muerte66
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Oh it has a distinct cult following. Just not a large one, that's for sure.

Wouldn't you know, it doesn't involve the slightest bit of voodoo?

Speaking of Hollywood's bastardization of religions, I loved the depiction of Santeria in the Child's Play movies. Their rituals are just like that first scene in the toy shop... LOL.



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Artume
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06:17:50 Jan 07 2009
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Well, I can tell you from a New Orleans Tour Guide perspective without all the mumbo jumbo "hype", that the Voodoo ceremonies that took place in Congo Square were outcasted by the Catholics because they could not tolerate the drums at night while trying to sleep. The Ceremonies themselves were banned both becuase they were quite lude at times as well as loud night time gatherings.

After the Arch Dioses banned the practice and night time ceremonies, it went underground. The natives became quite restless. After a short time, a few of them as well as Marie Laveau of whom was rumoured to have played a large portion of keeping with tradition, kept with the ceremonies but was never caught nor arrested for her acts. Probably because she was the only individual in town that had persuasion since she was a cure all for the heirarchy individuals in town. The nobles if you will.

Then, they began to realize something, what if instead of calling their spirits Loa, they would partially rename them for the saints of "name your religion here". Thus the cross between Catholicism and Voodoo was setting the stage.

A bit off on the actual story, but this should do for all interested.



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ThothLestat
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14:47:41 Jan 07 2009
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This was in the late 1800s, right?
I'm curious to know when voodoo went underground in NOLA.



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LivNdedGirl
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thank you cadrewolf
i been screaming about that movie "the serpant and the rainbow" every time someone ask about zombies it is most educational .... and when it comes down to voodoo also lets not leave out santa maria and all the other off shoots for there were many tribes with many differant practices before white man disrupted thier style. LOL blood mother would have been a great thing if the slaves could have used thier magicks on the slavers but iam sure they did not have access to supplys and one thing many dont realize is that they were often forbidden to sing or practice anything they used to do out of fear ... because the slavers feared what they did not know



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Bloodmother
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16:43:34 Jan 07 2009
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I've never taken voodoo seriously because it seemed to me that its power to effect change was limited. The problem with thinking that way --- about a "religion" at least --- is that it means that the three monotheistic religions in the world, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, have the true magicks, and perhaps the true zombies. I'm referring to zombies not in the flesh-eating aspect (although the "this is my body, this is my blood" always creeped me out), but in the unthinking, ritualistic way.

Those religions involve rituals (magicks), have tenets which must be accepted with question, and have certainly affected the course of human history. They have also the ability to "elevate" the believer into sublime levels of euphoria where miracles seem to happen.

Looked at in that way voodoo can only affect one susceptible person at a time. It can't amass a horde of villagers to attack another village, or even a plantation owner. It's a seething, bitter, psychological ploy to victimize, and control. I see no joy or light.



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cadrewolf
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16:54:06 Jan 07 2009
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Yet like most magic, if one beleives it will happen to them they become more succeptable to it.

Like voodoo, do i believe in it , yes as a religion factor and a hertige of the people,

but to believe in the powerful magic that can kill me or hurt me no i do not believe in this.. i still am skeptical about. probably from the ignorance I do not know much about it.



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dabbler
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18:49:53 Jan 07 2009
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Thank you soul shroud, very informative, a fine example of how bad publicity can fan promotion. Though aspects of Voodo are intomsdating, they have an appeal to tourist. Gypsies use similar networks, but are less "church established". Are there still Voodo Churches in New Orleans, how clustered are the shops?


Could eating brains be a metaphor of longing to consume knowledge?



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dabbler
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Some surrender control of their will easily, this is in part because of the promise that if anything goes wrong, and the person is called to account for actions, they have an out "The Voodo Priest Made me do it".

If the knowledge obtained is found to be faulty, then time to find a more convincing priest. Seekers, and Believers who seek, once they subscribe to a faith, practice, or belief start seeking loopholes to lax devotional commitments, yet still gain full spiritual/social benifits. Sects are a fine example of this, either the founders of sects are loosing the tenants to a faith, or they are more strict (fundemental/othodox)



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cadrewolf
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22:17:47 Jan 08 2009
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Voodism and zombies is not giving up their control.

Isn't this suppose to be magic or drugs to influence the person into become a mindless zombie. so given up free will would not play inot this.



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BLOODLIFE
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Most types of magic have a sell by date, in other words it will wear off after a time, but I was under the impression that if you become a zombie, that's your lot!!



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dabbler
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Though it is reasonable to expect some to claim to have been Zombiefied to skirt resposability, Voodo has possession as well. It works as I understand it on the same principle as stage hypnotism.

Some open themselves more then others, some accumulate debt with priest that enforce the effects of the ritual. How desperate are people to
Avoid confronting their problems?



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cadrewolf
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Yet going on the bases of "hoolywood" and their depiction of the zombie in voodoosim, we always see a spirit of revenge,

A person who betrays a priest and than is zombified to do the bidding, or a death of a family member is zombied and reeks revenge.

yet in the *real* world we do not hear much of voodoo or zombies as much as the hay day of new orleans or the south,

is this a dying religion in the fact the religion is not being passsed on to generations or it is developing ino a new form of voodoo?



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BLOODLIFE
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From what i've read this is still an ongoing and flourishing religion. It's not all doom and gloom and like most religions it is based on faith!



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NartinaLeMaliki
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00:35:59 Jan 09 2009
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Voodoo is a cross between the ancient African religions and Catholicism, or so I've heard. It also stands to reason that the zombie does play some small part in the practice of Voodoo, however, I do believe that Hollywood has taken the religion and run with it. They've glorified it way beyond proportion. Yes, the witchcraft still is a part of it, however, I think they've made it seem more evil and foreboding that what Voodoo truly is.



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Artume
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In all actuality, yes...There are Voodun churches here in the city. One of the most noted ones is on Rampart st. just across from the entrance to Armstrong Park.

I do know a couple of priests and priestess's of the craft. I even practice the craft myself occasionally. It is a simple beginning, but if the individual really wishes to learn the underground ways...This may take sometime. From the Loa, to the Gris Gris, to why the dance is performed on certain nights as well as how to use the VeVe properly.

My patron is always Papa Legba. He is the gatekeeper and is always always used at the beginning of the ceremonies as well as at the end of each.

Yeah, I have been promissing to write an article on the subject but unfortunately I have not gotten around to it.

Perhaps I may ask my friend Kalila from the Haunted History Tours if she will agree to an interview for the article itself...Who knows. After all, she is a big authority when it comes to this subject.



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CryingDutchess
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I beg your pardon all readers *holds up one finger as I co-sign on ThothLestat's comments*
Where was I? Hollywood is quick money flipping. It doesnt matter if it is plausibale that a culture not likely to embrace either of these darker arts, the point is, can there be a scary movie resulting in a someone ending up in someone else's lap at the end of the scene! People go to see these movies for scares and not realism. That is no excuse to have a white guy with a rubber band holding on a Rasta wig in a movie, but that is Hollywood.

Let me throw something really creepy out there, sometimes when the script has just freshly made it to the studio with a green light, it isn't rare to be better then than by the time it is produced. Go figure.



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ThothLestat
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NartinaLeMaliki, I understand what you're trying to say and I agree with your point, but by "running with it" -- which is to say, by re-interpreting voodoo for commercial purposes, Hollywood has corrupted it -- they haven't glorified it at all; rather, they've maligned it. And it is this maligned version of the practice that has become the form of voodoo that we recognize in the media today.

I think the same could be said for the Haunted History tours; it's the same process at work... sensationalism over substance. I'll try to do some actual research this weekend, but I'm betting that -- whatever voodoo or verdun used to be -- it was likely a positive source of spiritual influence before it became sensationalized and vilified.

The film industry did to voodoo, as they did to marijuana use with Reefer Madness -- they maligned it to sway popular opinion against it. I used to not think it was intentional, but now I'm not so sure.


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dabbler
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How have sects done the same thing with voodo, like the Penecostal denomination of Christianity, Christians I know announce their denomination, are their more sensational denominations of voodo, that would attract Hollywood? Not taking away from hollywood turning a cut finger into a servered arm, how has voodo been sensationalized for secular appeal from
Sources other then Cinima?



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Convel
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well we have The Serpent and the Rainbow Book on this to be true and it is more a drug induced thing than a magical thing in my opinion. Yet, I feel that their is magic out there that is more than capable of also rendering someone into a zombie state..



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Bloodmother
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Just came across this new interpretation:

Since 1990, anthropologist Isak Niehaus has been researching traditional beliefs in Bushbuckridge district of Limpopo province, a rural corner tucked near the Mozambican border, north of Nelspruit.

Niehaus says that the government's denial is mirrored by denial in townships and villages - "a stubborn silence, fatalism, denial, extreme reluctance to test or to disclose the condition, ostracising people with AIDS" - albeit for different reasons.

The root of stigma, he says, is the association of AIDS with death and the perception of HIV-positive people as zombies or bewitched.

There is individual biological death and social death, he explains. The emphasis on the first is a Western construct. In Africa, traditionally, death is a process whereby people cross from the realm of living to the realm of death, within a network of relatives and ancestors.

Just like zombies - whose soul is taken by a witch - are perceived as socially dead but physically alive, stuck in a parallel world, HIV-positive people are symbolically located between life and death. "A corpse that is alive" is a common expression. They lose weight, become bony, their flesh dissolves; they lose aura through coughs, diarrhoea and vomiting. They must be shunned and kept out of view - like lepers were.

http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/51735/2008/08/10-152112-1.htm



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cadrewolf
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Great Post Blood Mother......

denial of village and society.
still on the opinions that it does not exist because of lack of proof or scientific reasoning. yet then rationalism comes to terms that now it can not be explained.



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cadrewolf
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brings to another point...Sorry

Watching resident Evil last night and could the scientist possibly take the drug or magic spells to actually come up with this today.

There is alot of research bio and illegal performed by scientist everyday. so the next big plague may be zombies.



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Daermon
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23:42:18 Jan 14 2009
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everyone keeps mentioning the movie "serpent and the rainbow"...however it's still hollyweird garbage
find the book it was based on, written by an anthropologist By the name of Wade Davis, he is the lead character in the movie, and the book is very detailed about his experiences, including mentioning some of the nastier compounds that were used in the "zombie powder"
thats what wade davis does, he goes to out of the way places, to find new plants/animals/ for use in medicines



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Airianna
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HollyWood tends to take what is true and ripp off the dull " " facts and add its happy little lies to it.




Origin: Haïtian beliefs and supersitions

The word 'voodoo' (vodou, vaudou, vodoun or vodun) derives from the word 'vodu' in the Fon language of Dahomey meaning 'spirit' or 'god’ and describes the complex religious and belief system that exist in Haïti, an island of the West Indies. The foundations of voodoo were established in the seventeenth century by slaves captured primarily from the kingdom of Dahomey, which occupied parts of today's Togo, Benin, and Nigeria in West Africa, it combines features of African religion with the Roman Catholicism of the European settlers. Today over 60 million people practice voodoo worldwide. Religious similar to voodoo can be found in South America where they are called Umbanda, Quimbanda or Candomble. It is widely practiced in Benin, Haiti and within many black communities of the large cities in North America.

Unfortunately, in popular literature and films voodoo has been reduced to sorcery, black witchcraft, and in some cases cannibalistic practices, generating many foreigners' prejudices not only about voodoo but about Haitian culture in general.

The voodoo religion involves belief in a supreme god (bon dieu) and a host of spirits called loa which are often identified with Catholic saints. These spirits are closely related to African gods and may represent natural phenomena — such as fire, water, or wind — or dead persons, including eminent ancestors. They consist of two main groups: the rada, often mild and helping, and the petro, which may be dangerous and harmful. There are two sorts of priests in the traditional voodoo folklore: the houngan or mambo who confine his activities to "white" magic i.e bring good fortune and healing and the bokor or caplata who performs evil spells and black magic, sometimes called "left-handed Vodun". Rarely, a houngan will engage in such sorcery; a few alternate between white and dark magic.

One belief unique to voodoo is the zombie. The creole word “zombie” is apparently derived from Nzambi, a West African deity but it only came into general use in 1929, after the publication of William B. Seabrook's The Magic Island. In this book, Seabrook recounts his experiences on Haiti, including the walking dead. He describes the first 'zombie' he came across in this way:

"The eyes were the worst. It was not my imagination. They were in truth like the eyes of a dead man, not blind, but staring, unfocused, unseeing. The whole face, for that matter, was bad enough. It was vacant, as if there was nothing behind it. It seemed not only expressionless, but incapable of expression."

Haitian zombies were once normal people, but underwent zombification by a "bokor" or voodoo sorcerer, through spell or potion. The victim then dies and becomes a mindless automaton, incapable of remembering the past, unable to recognize loved ones and doomed to a life of miserable toil under the will of the zombie master.

There have been some rare occasions of juju zombies temporarily regaining part of their mental faculties. This rare occurrence has only been observed when a zombie encounters situations that have heavy emotional connections to their mortal lives.

There are many examples of zombies in modern day Haiti. Papa Doc Duvallier the dictator of Haiti from 1957 to 1971 had a private army of thugs called tonton macoutes. These people were said to be in trances and they followed every command that Duvallier gave them. Duvallier had also his own voodoo church with many followers and he promised to return after his death to rule again. He did not come back but a guard was placed at his tomb, to insure that he would not try to escape, or that nobody steal the body. There are also many stories of people that die, then many years later return to the shock and surprise of relatives. A man named Caesar returned 18 years after he died to marry, have three children and die again, 30 years after he was originally buried. Another case involved a student from a village Port-au-Prince who had been shot in a robbery attempt. Six months later, the student returned to his parent’s house as a zombie. At first it was possible to talk with the man, and he related the story of his murder, a voodoo witch doctor stealing his body from the ambulance before he reached hospital and his transformation into a zombie. As time went on, he became unable to communicate, he grew more and more lethargic and died.

A case reported a writer named Stephen Bonsal described a zombie he witnessed in 1912 in this way: a man had at intervals a high fever, he joined a foreign mission church and the head of the mission saw the him die. He assisted at the funeral and saw the dead man buried. Some days later the supposedly dead man was found dressed in grave clothes, tied to a tree, moaning. The poor wretch soon recovered his voice but not his mind. He was indentifed by his wife, by the physician who had pronounced him dead, and by the clergyman. The victim did not recognized anybody, and spent his days moaning inarticulate words.


http://zombies.monstrous.com/voodoo_zombies.htm



Here is another link that might help

http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/voodoo/howzombie.htm




Most of the power comes from believe in it, if you don't believe it will not effect you. The less you believe and allow them in side your mind the less likely you will become a zombie. *shudders* And on a side note...I really really hate zombies.





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Airianna
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16:37:29 Jan 21 2009
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Most people do not know that Zombies are not the dead flesh eating kind they think. In voodoo there is something blown in to the person (soon to be zombies) face, its a very high very strong poison.

" * One or more species of puffer fish, which often contain a deadly neurotoxin called tetrodotoxin
* A marine toad (Bufo marinus), which produces numerous toxic substances
* A hyla tree frog (Osteopilus dominicensis), which secretes an irritating (but not deadly) substance
* Human remains

In addition, the powders contained other plant and animal ingredients, like lizards and spiders, which would be likely to irritate the skin. Some even included ground glass.

The use of puffer fish intrigued Davis. Tetrodotoxin causes paralysis and death, and victims of tetrodotoxin poisoning often remain conscious until just before death. The paralysis prevents them from reacting to stimuli -- much like what Clairvius Narcisse described about his own death. Doctors have also documented cases in which people ingested tetrodotoxin and appeared dead but eventually made a complete recovery. "


http://science.howstuffworks.com/zombie1.htm



They are then put in a gave and buried to make then think they are dead, its more again as a mind trick, mind over matter is a big battle, if your mind is strong you come out of it with a bad head ach, if not, you go totally insane and become a "zombie"



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cadrewolf
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16:41:29 Jan 21 2009
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Many have stated a drug, yet if it was poison would it not infact kill the person.

many tales and fiction on it, yet a secret that is held within the voodoo community on how and why it is done.



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Airianna
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16:50:27 Jan 21 2009
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Not all poisons kill dear, I'm relearning how to make healing tonics, and some of the herbs i will use if not used right will not kill someone but might hurt them, psychically, and might mess with something on the inside.



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La6Muerte66
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The "vacant stare" in the zombies' eyes is most likely the result of delerium caused by the combination of drugs administered. Datura stramonium (I know from experience) often makes the user unresponsive, and users are known to stare vacantly for hours on end. A buddy of mine (for example) stared at a building on campus for two hours before security brought him to the hospital.

And yes, if just a little too much is taken, Datura can be fatal.



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temporary2
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There is an old statement in pharmacology. The dose makes the poison. For many drugs the difference between medicinal and lethal doses are quite large while for some like tetrodotoxin the difference is very tiny. This lethal poison if carefully used can temporarily paralyze a person while leaving them conscious for surgeries. People eat Fugu in Japan and get tingling sensations from close calls on lethal poisonings even when a certified chef prepares the Fugu (Pufferfish.) Some do not survive eating even professionally prepared Fugu.



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dabbler
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19:48:12 Jan 21 2009
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Then there is the Zombie of convenence, that get out of consequence for ones action Zombie. Similar to the Possession of Convience.

"Damn, John.. I think my bride to bes lady neigbor saw me go to far at the
Bachlor Party, Sitting there letting that stripper dance on me.. What do I do?"
"Easy Earl, just tell her you where buzzed, and you accidently ticked off a Voodo Priest.. You know what they do don't you? They make Zombies out of
Well intended folk.."



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Marxist420
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iv heard about people who "died" walking back into their village 20 some odd years after they were burried.
supposidly salt negates the effects of the drugs the "zombie" is given.



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cadrewolf
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18:39:47 Jan 26 2009
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so infact a zombie may be a wrongful buried individual that has gone into a coma and was buried and has come back.

Alot of old vampire tales have been contributed to this....



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lordsatanas
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23:47:44 Jan 26 2009
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i had a friend do the voodoo thing it was kool it was not all like the movies we could not raised the dead or anything but it was kool



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Artume
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23:53:28 Jan 26 2009
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I agree ~Cadrewolf~, which in my opinion was a bloody good idea to put the bells on the recently "deceased" body parts after the burrial process...To ensure the individual has indeed passed on.



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Airianna
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05:30:12 Jan 27 2009
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Its had been proven that a poorly done noose, could not kill someone just knock them out for a while, them coming back, has been the big " " thing for vampires and the True stories behind them, in the 1600's.



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cadrewolf
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17:37:15 Jan 27 2009
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Some accounts go back furthe than that. So fables of the undead were from botched deaths because the understanding of death was not well known.



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Marxist420
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thought that the bells had to do with people ingesting to much heavy metals and passing out. same reason for a wake.



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Aracon
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The practices of zombification are still very much in rote even in this more modern world. Those that still practice the art, practice it well and in silence. Bokors are Voodoun High Priest/esses that have been regarded to "selling their soul to the Devil" or as most would term it, "working with both hands". The idea behind zombification is not dissimilar to that of being "preserved" in a certain way and more easily manipulated to do certain things. To each practice of this art, there are many varying degrees of zombification as well as there are a myriad of causes, purposes and uses thereof.

Help Any?



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Aracon
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To Quote La6Muerte66, he wrote:


"The "vacant stare" in the zombies' eyes is most likely the result of delerium caused by the combination of drugs administered. Datura stramonium (I know from experience) often makes the user unresponsive, and users are known to stare vacantly for hours on end. A buddy of mine (for example) stared at a building on campus for two hours before security brought him to the hospital.

And yes, if just a little too much is taken, Datura can be fatal. "


My Response: There is one MAJOR ingredient in zombie dust that you have not mentioned. Maybe for good reason, as I will not mention it either. But those that you have mentioned, as a herbologist, you are correct in their effects, but incorrect in the ingredients used in zombie dust. In zombie dust there is one base ingredient, then 20 others added for their alterative effects. And yes, it does work - just ask any hospital, for some modern medicines have the exact same effect as the real zombie dust.



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Aracon
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14:09:16 Jan 28 2009
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I will however say that this base ingredient is a powerful neural toxin and it functions by blocking sodium channels in the neuronal membrane, thereby inactivating the sodium pump. Tingling in the lips and tongue usually develop within 10–45 minutes, then the sensations spread rapidly to other parts of the body, and this is followed by excessive salivation, weakness, nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, abdominal pain, paralysis, difficulty swallowing, convulsions, and sometimes death by respiratory paralysis, but when used in appropriate portions, you'll get the desired effect.



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La6Muerte66
La6Muerte66
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14:12:49 Jan 28 2009
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Well, it's not out of hesitation that I don't mention tetrodotoxin, it's just that I have a hard time remembering it. lol. Plus my area of expertise is Daturas and tropane alkaloids.



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Aracon
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14:16:36 Jan 28 2009
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A Ve've



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Aracon
Aracon
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14:24:49 Jan 28 2009
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Be careful with using Daturas and tropane alkaloids for they leave residual amounts of strychnine in the joints, and later in life, my friend, you will be in a great deal of pain.

Datura and its Toxins

and

Tropane Alkaloids

but if you wish to do it a more "naturale" way then here's another for you.

Erotic Food Power!

Enjoy...

Aracon



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Nightgame
Nightgame
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14:54:00 Jan 28 2009
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Hollywood always exagerates it's the way to sell a story with such limited medium as film.

However if one considers using a combination of drugs and hypnosis a "zombie" seems quite possible.



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La6Muerte66
La6Muerte66
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14:55:48 Jan 28 2009
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Aracon, I'm well aware of the short- and long-term dangers of Datura. That's why I rarely if ever use it.

Not to mention it's quite unpleasant. lol.



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Aracon
Aracon
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21:41:45 Jan 28 2009
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Ave La6Muerte66,

Sorry about the threads, but when I see someone mentioning alkaloids and datura, it always gives me chills, mainly due to the effects it has upon someone. In my early 20's I went out with a guy that used Datura and other alkaloids in his teens, and by the time he was like 26 his joints began to seize up. So when I see people that I circulate among, I always am concerned yes, bad habit I guess from being both an ordained priest and a healer. But dear friend, I did not mean to offend or disparage, just merely friendly concern. For what I saw what began to happen to the guy I was living with then, it was horrific to say the least.

Aracon



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countessdee
countessdee
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17:01:28 Jan 29 2009
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I believe zombies are a real part of certain Carribean
and European cultures. They are a human with no souls or mind, and are controlled by a high Priest, Priestess, WitchDoctor, etc.



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Aracon
Aracon
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21:25:46 Jan 29 2009
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countessdee - you are most correct.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by TheRat on Oct 03 2010  •

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