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Do you think that people are born good or evil? Or is it something that we pick up and learn or become later in life as we grow? Is there a choice? Or can you be both? Can you change?

And I'm talking broad spectrum here....from sociopaths to the most devout christian or whatever religion.

When we're born, we're neither good or evil. Being babies or young children, we don't know and can't understand what good and evil are.

People are made good or evil by their surrounds and the way they were raised. When we're young, we're very influential. We look up to our parents as our role models and tend to want to be like them. We want to fit in with the kids around us so we conform.

We are made good or evil by the people in our lives.

This question sucks.. oops that was my evil side showing..

As mentioned in an recent thread on this same subject, Evil is a cop out to those who profess to be, "nudged by evil forces", it is denial of ones undeveloped impulse control.

I don't know about any other planet, but when you're born on earth you are neither. It's how life and the people around you raise you, and teach you. And that's that. I know a lot of movies, especially horror, play those types that children can be born evil, but that's not reality. It does not happen that way.

I think we are chosen to lead a certain life. Some veer from this and others do not. I believe we can be born with this as I have seen a messed up Mom on drugs raise her children messed up and three of them turned out to be great! The others not. So the upbringing sucked and yet three children emerged successful in life.

So does that make the "messed up child "evil" persay, or just neglected? I follow your reasoning JT.

I DON'T, just because three came out good doesn't mean anything, simply they had different influence than the rest, some see their mom and could said: "i don't want this in my life i can aim for better", other could in fact followed the parent, others could just raise along with "good" (for the sake of your POV) people by the side, some may took a belief that guide them differently, some could have different genes that takes traits from the other parent that can fluctuate in the behavior of the offspring at a developed age, their is millions of things/reasons that can shift a behavior in someone, even a: word, song, movie, a certain picture can change how you see things, and yes I think one can/could be immensely influenced primarily by parents, afterwards by exterior agents. Yet "evil" is as overrated as "good" is, scale holds value on the eye of the beholder. Maybe drugs and "bad" things are the best things in my point of view, just because society deems norm to be clean and polite, doesn't make the opposing view evil-ish'/wrong, you people seriously need to open the eyes before opening the mouth, most of the things everyone say are ruled by each of the narrator scale and the world is not ruled by anyones scale< just words of "wisdom".

We are born neither good nor evil...
We are defined by our choices...simple as that.
The choices we make will determine where we lie.

No I dont think we are born good or evil we are just nuetral it is the choices that we make, how we are raised the influence that we are raised around, but ok lets go with an example, the child that tortures animals, the experts say they will grow up to be serial killers is that option they chose or a mental disorder ? Or perhaps the child that is raised in a closed off community say thr amish and is not raised around other outside influences does that make them automatically good ?

External influence and genes.. Usually kids explore without malice; without knowing they are doing "wrong/good", that brings the old example: "the kid that touches the hot pan and burns and scream, knows not to touch it a second time", learned the hard way. such behavior can in fact be like ~dabz~ mentioned, "negligence" by parents; Kids start by watching ants walking, kills one ant with a finger, no-one is their to stop them, then kill all in sight, later they see others burning with magnifying glass, and try it, no-one is there to "correct", and eventually develop a slight taste for cruelty, or no conscience/hard feelings for harming. Thats why murders in my watch are simply different deviated in behavior and seemed as evil/wrong by the standards of society. Yet their are reasons behind the norms as well, so its a difficult as how to judge in the balance of both worlds. In our case obviously the wrong is the killer because the whole society votes in counter to the natural developed behavior so yeah..

Not everyone here would define the same things as good or bad. Everyone has their own perception of what is good and what is bad, or their own way of distinguishing between the two.

Define good and evil. What are your definitions of the two?

Good and evil are completely subjective... What may seem good to me may seem evil to someone else, and vice versa. So really, there is no good or evil - there's just ones perspective...

Yes that is very true Bones, ask 100 people the same question on what their definition of the two are and your certain to get 100 different answers. To each their own on what they believe to be good or evil.

you are correct....good and evil are subjective....

the definitions then cannot be made...which is why i based this topic on a broad spectrum...to get all objective opinions....

as for examples...you have the kid that grew up in a great home that now burns down houses with people in it....or the kid that grew up beaten all the time that now is a great success....

Does the stating that it's your environment make these people anomalies? Or if it's your choice, you choose to go a different path? So one will was stronger than another? But if you are not exposed to one certain path, how do you know another way to go?

eMetiB226,

As for your examples, The kid who grew up in a great home could have been spoiled and may react indifferently based on a lack of discipline. Whereas the kid who grew up beaten all the time may have developed into a stronger person as a result of discipline. Neither can necessarily be described as inherently good or evil, just two different people shaped by their surroundings and perceived differently by people in their surroundings.

People make people good or evil, or at least make them out to be good or evil by their own standards or definitions, or even their own ignorance.

I belive that ppl are born with both good and evil in them and it is up to them how they chose to live.

Or make choices

Then it comes to a question if Nurture, or Nature.

Was a curious child rebuked severly for doing what children do without malice? Did that child, " straighten up, and fly right"? Then when the child was doing the best they could, did the disfunction around them persist?

What relief, and when did it come to the childs attention that too harsh expectations where placed on them.

Or had the child grown to rebel against the strict.. Or extreme lack of a reasonable family type unit.

Richard Rameriz ( the night stalker) came to mock the act of sex.. But he , it is said had a psycotic uncle ( Vet) who filled the role of mentor.

Was he exposed to a religious zealots, perhaps this led to his self professed evilness, mocking that which was held sacred by others.

Though a lack of reverence for things publicly avowed to be sacred is not absolutely Evil, I would place it in my personal criteria for evilness to act out with such targets being predominate in any act of aggression.

But the Gratuity of " Evil" is so blasé.

I don't think it's an anomilie simply because to do so would assume that people experiencing certain events will consequently turn out a certain way. I would not categorise the people in your examples as "good" or "evil" on the basis of their experiences and my perception of them... I would want to know what is in their mind, their heart - or at least my interpretation of such information - before I assumed to put a label on them...

RE:"Was a curious child rebuked severly for doing what children do without malice? Did that child, " straighten up, and fly right"? Then when the child was doing the best they could, did the disfunction around them persist?"

The disfunction persists but is mend by a fear that later is seen as a "no-no" and programmed as such (at times), when is persistent then: thats where the unknown enter in game, no-one knows what happen in each head (each world) or what they carry with their genes... One cannot ultimately say "yea I teach this 5 quintuplets the same things, raise them the same way, feed all of them the same ways, make them see the same things" and the statistic they later on respond to the same way is still 1:5 probability that they don't, their is something I guess we each have not saying "soul" but -individuality- for a more consistent word to respond to nature, and choose what to believe and what to dismiss, free of act< is it really exist such things? do we control what we see, meet, read, and let influence?...thats where the egg breaks, any takers?

RE:"What relief, and when did it come to the childs attention that too harsh expectations where placed on them. "

Those you see them in the teen years, when "they think they know it all and the parents know nothing about the 'era' "ways" they are living" and typically I see the reasoning of this print in the kids that deviated from their parents raisin, when are seen a "rebels" typically in the labeling of dressing black, saying you worship the devil, or if you follow science that you are a heretic, those who persist programmed still hold their family beliefs, morals, traditions, cooking, way of expressing and are less evidenced to show the impression printed, and example of this are country side teachings, where small towns hold similarities in the raising of kids, that where the whole "small town girl" label came to be, you know how a girl that type is by the label carry down by the impression of everything that small town holds.

Well, I think killing someone is considered evil by everyone, as say, saving a puppy, is considered a good by all.

Have you asked everyone to know?

No real need. Whether or not someone is evil and good, I'm sure murder, even to a murderer, is bad.

Meh!! wrong!.. You are putting words in others mouth, you don't know what everyone think or believe to say something that concretely, have you seen/heard sadistic killers that don't care for killing only their own pleasures/fines or interest, or documentaries of interviews where similar question are asked and they don't seem anything wrong in killing/ cannibalism( Guy that killed his lover because he loved her so much he wanted to taste her)? hmm get out from under your rock.< before you look for a backdoor for this answer a psychiatric evaluation doesn't hold any credibility/validation to shield from a person perspective of things, since is how they see the world, and for "our"(society) eyes is a deviation of the norm, furthermore a mental illness...If it was by that standard then everyone in war has a related illness because they are killing for interests as well, and a "belief" some of the case. So is vaguely ignorant to say everyone even murderers feel bad, when you aren't in everybodies shoes to say so.

MBK writes:

“Well, I think killing someone is considered evil by everyone, as say, saving a puppy, is considered a good by all.”

and

“No real need. Whether or not someone is evil and good, I'm sure murder, even to a murderer, is bad.”

I also disagree with this, some murders are Immoral meaning they have morals and ignore them. They may feel bad. Some are amoral meaning they have no understanding of morals at all. They probably won’t feel bad.

Also saving a puppy is only good if you take enough of an interest in its life for it to end op somewhere good. If you abandon it alive on the riverbank you are being just as callous as letting it drown.

On a more general note although environmental factors account for the majority of criminals/serial killers/ general evil people. There are some where there is no explanation other than “they were born that way”. I believe that there are good people like this too it’s just that we as a society are absolutely crap at building up and sensationalizing good people the way we do evil people.

Having worked in shopfloor security one truism picked up there was this:

“5% of people will never steal no matter what the temptation, 5% of people will steal and don’t believe it to be wrong. The other 90% you just have to find their price…”

I think it is something you become, that conditioning by parents and society train you into. I think we are born innocent and predominately good. But over time this changes.

We are born neutral being good or evil is a choice we make

Hm interesting a made a post in journal that could almost fit this type of question.
Babies in general are like uncarved blocks. They just ARE. They have no understanding of what good or evil is.
Good and Evil are stereotypes made by adults to what is socially acceptable to them or not.

No one is born good or evil we chose to do the things that make us one or the other.

I know when something shocks my sensibility.

The father that beat his baby to death on the side of a road here in Cali.

Now had I learned that he did that to assault the mother mentally I would lean to that murder being commonly agreed to be "evil".

Those who see murder as a necessary solution.. perhaps they lack
what others take for granted. People waited for Manson to "humor" their "monster personification" during his trial, true to Charles Nature he embraced the one thing that stood out to insult their expectations. A grand mockery of those who throw everything to the realm, of "Godliness, Vs Evilness, thus secretly they hope to cancel the brutal reality that it is unpredictable. As unpredictable as human nature, that some who subsribe to absolutes would rather deny exist outside of the will of some deities "greater plan".

I believe we are shaped by our environment and what we make of it. We are given choices in life and based on how we was raised is how we make those decisons.

Take for example the post about the woman with the three kids..they each had their own experiences and dealt with them seperately.

Since good and evil is a perspective scale, let me use mine to enlighten you what I see is "evil" in counter of what all you take as like-hood or severely ignore the facts that make them truthful. for me "evil" in the notion of negative assertion are: those who steal from you the "free will", the will to do what you want, the will to think, to inspire something, the will to live in peace from others benefit, but for you and your interest. Since everything in our world works as a web to the money also works as a web to power furthermore the control to slave us, from what is really important to what you must do to obtain it. How you sell your freedom for money, how you sell your beliefs for money and how that money turns back in into the one giving it to you (the money and beliefs/protection) which leaves the equation in to slavery since ( you work for your money 51% tax goes to them, you buy something X% tax goes to them, remaining product value goes to the company which also pays X% for it, and propels the currency into higher/lower or constant which in fact its administered by the banks, if it goes bankrupt who else stays with the company?). Thats how war works, that how soldiers feel so honorable of what they are doing; when in fact they are damn monkeys in suits selling everything for nothing but a time of need from both parties (the banks the interest they need and the soldiers a X amount of money that come as vet that later helps the whole cycle that banks control). "Evil" is everything that controls you when is not what's in you but what is fed on you, to lead your life into something without a choice ( "I witnessed a miracle", where you learn what a miracle is?, "i read the XXXX and it says it there" where you around to know it? "My mom says that XXXX is what did this"what told your mom that?), I can't believe nearly 90% of the people live like this and doesn't agree to open their eyes before opening their mouths, then whine when their is suffering that we(some people) help bring with their whole programation. News repeat everything over and over and over until you actually get to the point you think is true and you have to have an opinion or emotion about the given story, thats how adds work why you think coca cola have an add everywhere, you see see see see see see, and eventually you must try it to see what the hell is it. A new logo is made and new adds are made and still you must try it again everytime. What is the difference between coca cola original and coca cola zero?? zero calories? taste the same, but wait it has zero calories, its better for my health I suppose. A father killing a kid is "evil" and must be stopped by all means by popular demand, and judge, but a million deaths on innocent people is "required"? or better so "avoidable/unaccepted" yet not supported against acts only denied. So how much evil is accepted when it is of one of yours, or when is millions of not yours? people cry for justice over getting the father that kill the son, who cries for the millions that our "honorable" soldiers shred in patriotism?...nuff said

Man is born feral. We are instinctual and we know when we are hungry and will find something to satisfy hunger and thirst but unless taught we will defacate in the nearest spot, drink anything liquid if thirsty and the list goes on. Feral: not domesticated or cultivated. We have to teach a child how to be civilized, what is accepted as proper behavior, so when under school age level the biggest influence is the parents but hate to say it when they get into school it is their peers that influence them the most up and through becoming an adult. All the parent can do is direct and usually get in a position of checks and balances to hopefully steer the kids the right way but their friends are a big, big influence. Sometimes there are slight defects in certain areas of the brain as far as impulse control or emotion. There are very young children who have tortured and killed other children with no remorse. I have an article in my Journal called Children Who Murder. As far as what we think of as good or evil that would depend on where we live, laws and religious values if there are any religious views or a sense of what is right and wrong we relay to our children. Unfortunately, like I said they are greatly influenced by outside stimulus and often the parents become the brunt of ridicule and thought of as being mean for making their children do what most would consider right. Some will rebel and turn out ok and others will go down a very negative path. Why do some young people murder out of the same circumstances where others will not and become successful? They just don't know. All they can do is a statistical study and really that proves nothing.

Azuredark...I agree with what you are saying here..it may be environment that creates good or evil or how it is perceived by others and it can also be a chemical imbalance in the brain that causes these "errant" behaviors. As far as scientific proof..well as I said before..it is individually based so how can there be true scientific proof to determine what can cause one to choose one path over another?

Yeah That perspective has being covered on various post before, up there to be precise, but overall yeah it is what is influenced by external agents in a variant of time, genes, impressions on the pod. Now is it reason that you met those circunstances or coincidence that made the monster/program/virus in the development of a carrier of experiences.

To paraphrase Hobbes from C&H: When it comes to the concept of a devil, perpetually tempting humans to do acts of evil unto others... I'm not entirely sure humans really need the help.

Their neither -- I was a really good kid at a young age -
and then put in situations where I had to do some very
nasty things for many years in order to survive --
now I can be either or - depending on my surroundings .

Is evil breed into people or is it the make up of peer pressure and society that deems actions of people to be evil?

For the choices of yesterday are not those of today. moral and society dictates that certain aspects are deemed evil and against the human race.

I think we are born with the choice to be good or evil. You make ur own choices in life

Choices lead to more choices in our lives. And many society laws dictate the balance or concept of good and evil. Enviromental factores and gentics seem to add to more of the discovery of stability in which a person can not disern right from wrong.

I would say people are not bon evill. i say that they are grown up to be evil by bad influances.

I don't believe we are born good or evil. we are turned by some force in out life.

Just like racism. put 1 baby of every skin type in a room, they don't hate, they play together. they are not influenced by the social corruption that we adults have come to have.

So, i believe we are born neutral, and the life that we lead, leads us to be good or evil. maybe one person effects this course, or maybe one hundred.

If I woke up, and decided to make the front page, and evening news, how
Skocking would my action have to be? What validates my action? My desire for noteriety, how others view my action. What of a child that was ignored? Or when they did something to get a reaction, and the reaction was disfinctional..

Now while I am on trial I disclose that I acted on the impulse to get on the front cover.. "That's It! Am I Evil?" That is the twisted impact of a single word on the psyche of humane people, an insult to believers, and nonbelievers alike.

Yes, also evil can be misunderstood with " acting out " or " attention seeker ". these people just believe if they are " bad " enough that they will get what they want in the end, and do not care what they have to do to get recognition.



Is that what you mean??

so dabbler, you're saying that one solitary action, without a malice motive such as you listed to get notoriety, does not label one with the word "evil". I agree. If we were all judged(out in the open) by one action, we'd all be labeled. Society tends to judge people by one action, or even possible action, as you see in the feeding frenzy for any high-profile trial.

so in that sense, can we also say that the soldiers that are trained to kill and "get information" in a war and then thrust back home expected to lead normal lives are good, but have done bad/evil things. Ends justify the means?

And can some people not be both? Do evil things and good things? So what does society make their label? A mental disorder of somekind, probably.

People choose who they are and so they also choose if they are good or evil.. that's something that we gain through our life.. some happenings in our lives are shaping us into good or evil people..

Axelord.

I do not believe humans can really choose. i believe that it's impulsive, it's from what you been taught threw life experiences.

In such cases of soldier it is a case by case matter. The intent is universal for soldiers, and that is time honored, Duty First.

When people impose morals on such actions the issue is made far more complex then "are the actions of soldiers evil." Necessary?

I agree. What a soldier has to or doesn't have to do should be left in the military. The media provokes and makes more of things than they are.

I was referring to a friend of mine that after having to do such things, came back feeling evil. I told him he was not. He wanted to know how someone who was really good could be able to do those things without flinching. I told him because he had to.

His instincts, coupled with training. Duty is an action of nuetral intent.

The Target is fully capable of agression, agression that is met with equal agression is mote in any topical discussion of Evil.

To be honest, I believe everyone has some goodness and some evil in them. It's innate, and most people try to cover up their own darkness with their thoughts and actions. At the same time, I also believe that one person's good is another person's evil. We are taught, as we grow, what is evil and what is good, and so along our lives as we learn what is right and wrong, we follow up on what we were taught as children based on what our parents thought was right and wrong.

I think everyone has to use both good or evil in different times in their lives, it is a balance, how would you know one without the other ?

A yin and yang type of thing, some people have different social programing to others aswel and make bad mistakes early in life, in time people change through good and bad times in their lives aswel

True, but the impulses others give us is what we use in relation to what is in us.

So, i still believe people can be turned good or evil, by the whispers other do in there ears.

I think a majority of good and evil are learned traits. I think we are moulded into good or evil traits from family and society as well. Then there are those that can be so evil that had wonderful parents and families... but were just evil from the day they were born in thought and in act. I believe it can be both and go both ways.

Perhaps we are born in a neutral state, neither good or evil. It just occurs over time.

Very good point xLorex, it is all in what we are shown and taught as we grow from childhood to adulthood.

A newborn is like a clean canvas to an aritist; however, as a child grows up, surroundings, teachings, upbringing and other outer influences are what add strokes to the canvas giving him/her the propensity to be either good or evil.

For most, being Good or Evil is a choice; for others it may be genetic, a mental or physical disorder or even supernatual causes.

yes, that's what i have been trying to say.
That we are like....turned, as we grow.....as a matter of speaking.

All people are evil.

If God gave us free will, then every decision (either out of actual choice, habit, or addiction,) that does not coincide with God's will for us, is evil.

It is near impossible to determine what God's will is, so we must strive to better our understanding of his will and to align our behavior toward our understanding of God's will.

If we make a choice that is against what we believe to be what God desires of us, we have chosen evil.

All people have the capacity for evil, it is just that some people have a broader spectrum of circumstances in which evil is acceptable to them. There are people that murder for tehir country, tehre are people that murder for advancement, there are people that murder for pride.

Most people can agree to a base level of Gods will, but who is to say that former President Bush did not make the best choices he could... even though I think he is more evil than a suicide bomber.

O lord! Here we go again... Your "God's" will is not everybody God's will or even any will or even nothing to do with anything at all, absolute assertion has no validity in the collective, only on the followers of a subscribed doctrine, to say we all must exceed/meet to Gods "will/expectations" for a higher goodness in life, is to say all of you need to give me a dollar because Im amazingly cool>which is wrong as well because not everyone think Im amazingly cool, much less cool, get the point, program it up there before spitting absolutist assumptions.

See the word if...

Should I have said if you believe?

Please substitute if you believe for if... thank you.

Good and Evil only exist because of belief in god.

Otherwise it is called ethics. Good and evil are ethics, but not all ethics are good.

That is why there are people that believe in euthanising genetically inferior people, and it is concidered ethical!

RE:"See the word if..."
Yes i saw the word If, The word if was still misused. "If god gave us free will" is a absolute, positive assertion as a common knowledge or factible/universal response.

RE:"Should I have said if you believe?
Yup..

Please substitute if you believe for if... thank you.
Gud

"Good and Evil only exist because of belief in god.
Otherwise it is called ethics. Good and evil are ethics, but not all ethics are good." > mega contradiction much??

I dont know if I should say yep or nope but I guess ill respond the first line. YES "good and evil" are the same as ethics; only in a more direct selection of wording. Good and evil is just the cotidian usage of >Ethics> the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group. A guiding philosophy, a consciousness of moral importance. If you sum that up is the same guiding one seek on a "god", higher force, leader, voice. Yes some dismiss the god part and still is good or evil, no believing in something makes the word less valued.

RE:"That is why there are people that believe in euthanising genetically inferior people, and it is concidered ethical!"

Is considered unethical in a side and ethical in another side, in other words to some, to set absolutes on saying people that believe in terminating inferior groups are considered something (ethical/unethical) is not a concrete assertion is just a point of view of the reception of the behavior administered in personal judgement> your view on some behavior somewhere, not overall/ or everyone perception of the given topic.

Genetically inferior or diseased, to put out of mercy^

I did not intend to address the semantics of G.vs.E.

Semantics withdrawn...

If you remove all semantics, the arguement seams to indicate that Good and Evil is entirely cultural, and varies depending on the specific group with which the choice affects.

Then it becomes a topic of fear of repercussion vs ethical conduct.

IE
Supose the US decides to euthanise all persons with an IQ of less than 120 as an ethical decision, what would be the repercussions from the rest of the world and persons who had family members murdered?
The decision is not enacted becasue there would be no armed forces to defend from an outraged world (among other reasons.)

Personally I prefer godview ethics to mansview ethics.

And I will conside that tehre are some religeons that invoke fear of repercussion to enforce ethics. I do not subscribe.

I also thought of 'nature' vs 'nurture'. I think that children are born perfect; it's the world around them that screws them up later on.

Anyway, this question made me ask more questions: If a person is truly born neutral in regards to being good or evil, how does one explain the 'evil' person - 'evil' being subjective - who was raised and nurtured in love and comfort? A sociopath? There are people who are 'evil' for no apparent reason; they are basically born that way. And if that is the case, are they truly evil if the cause of them being a sociopath is a brain anomally?

---"I did not intend to address the semantics of G.vs.E.
Well it had to been brought to separate your argument from "contradiction" to "common sense".

Semantics withdrawn...

If you remove all semantics, the arguement seams to indicate that Good and Evil is entirely cultural, and varies depending on the specific group with which the choice affects.

Then it becomes a topic of fear of repercussion vs ethical conduct."

---Once again ethical conduct, fear of repercussion, commandment of a "higher force" Is the main root of it all in a extent (add semantics again), look for each definition and you will see the terms overlap each other into a common denomination. And Good and Evil, ethics of procession of things, and laws of higher purposes falls down on the same line of thoughts. Good and evil is what everyone makes it in their own eyes, may be by the free selection/practice of a law, a leader, a god, a philosophy, a rationalization, a commandment, etc.. Their is no concrete definition as for what is evil or good, other than the negative and positive depiction of (insert your judgment here) probable/improbable conviction by others scale of morals/ethics & vise-versa. The issued discussion here is the absolute use of words to explain the whole notion of both words> "the will of god" vs. good and evil explanation you supported.

"IE
Supose the US decides to euthanise all persons with an IQ of less than 120 as an ethical decision, what would be the repercussions from the rest of the world and persons who had family members murdered?
The decision is not enacted becasue there would be no armed forces to defend from an outraged world (among other reasons.)

Personally I prefer godview ethics to mansview ethics.

And I will conside that tehre are some religeons that invoke fear of repercussion to enforce ethics. I do not subscribe."

---Just as you don't subscribe to it, others don't subscribe to your beliefs, God-view & Men-view> are something you created in your viewports>your scale to judge something, as if I invent reasonable-view and "cannibal's-view" as my scale of convictions and impressions of "ethics". Thus saying "If XXX will is bla bla.." is being absolute in the judgement of the assertion; as if it is a ultimatum on the whole presented argument. Anyhow the issue is cleared, i just highlighted it-so it doesn't turn into a popular rite of talking as everything is as it is viewed by the subscriber.

A great film to see in regards to being 'born evil' is from the 1950's, called "The Bad Seed". It basically states that evil is past down through the generations - sometmes skipping one or two - but passed down through the blood nonetheless.

The film is also kind of funny and twisted, in a dark way.

Isis101....

you've made me think of a valid point/question. Disregarding the cultural perception of good and evil, and just going with one flat random example (don't care, pick one) it seems alot of people think that it is the upbringing, surroundings, etc. So then you have to ponder where THOSE people made their choices and became negative/bad/evil, because with this theory, someone/s had to influence their life as well, and so on.

So down the generations it goes....possibly...

Yeah i cover it on previous post that in could be genes and surroundings what plaster the pod behavioral development.

Good and Evil
Posted: 14:03:01 - Jul 01 2009
Times viewed: 264

External influence and genes.. Usually kids explore without malice; without knowing they are doing "wrong/good", that brings the old example: "the kid that touches the hot pan and burns and scream, knows not to touch it a second time", learned the hard way. such behavior can in fact be like ~dabz~ mentioned, "negligence" by parents; Kids start by watching ants walking, kills one ant with a finger, no-one is their to stop them, then kill all in sight, later they see others burning with magnifying glass, and try it, no-one is there to "correct", and eventually develop a slight taste for cruelty, or no conscience/hard feelings for harming. Thats why murders in my watch are simply different deviated in behavior and seemed as evil/wrong by the standards of society. Yet their are reasons behind the norms as well, so its a difficult as how to judge in the balance of both worlds. In our case obviously the wrong is the killer because the whole society votes in counter to the natural developed behavior so yeah..

Sorry, maybe I didn't word it correctly.

My point I was trying to make is if people believe it has to do with surroundings and influences, then we have to wonder where it all started. Even if it is in the generation.

And what you are saying is that it could be all just trial and error? Curiousity? Such as even when we are told not to touch the hot stove, alot of times we do as children?

I could definitely believe that. Then when the child is not stopped, or told wrong, or even if so, they discover they like it, in the worst cases, I guess.

Well then that experience of touching it, brought the start of a new deviation and a possible future pattern in like-wise activities, and that a fine example of the notion that everything can make you shift, and not only relies on personal experiences but also genetics, thats why I brought to question in a post way above^, if it is coincidence or reason of things that dictate over a development in an individual future behavior. Is it a coincidence that the kid touched the hot pan, and liked it, often turning into a "abnormal" deviation which could later on bring other extreme interest, or was it a reason of being; in time, genes, and space. Now so, we don't choose our parents, or to be brought in a day/year, or to be the jumped carrier of a recessive gene, then was it really a coincidence of the development of things/obstacles/challenges that shaped our path or a reason?- makes you think...

A slight personal experience, when i was a kid, around 8 years old my parents gave me this motocross looking bicycle, it was big for my height, I couldn't reach the pedals but I was so thrilled I wanted to ride it so bad, so i climbed it and i had to force side to side to reach the pedals> at a turn i didn't reach the pedal and i went to the other side my foot got caught in the spikes that hold the chain and I fell down, my foot got trapped in the spikes and as i fell to the ground one of the spikes pierced my feet and made a big line and opened, I saw all the blood and the spike full of blood and some skin, I was so scared i didn't even wanted to go to the doctor, it needed like 5 or 6 stitches but i cried to stay home and cure it by myself so i lasted like 3 months treating it until the wound closed, I don't know how, but it did lol. I was so devastated by the spike accident, that i thought of the stitching process and i refused with panic, i use to cry for doctors till 13 or so, 'till the light of the day i feel weird when Im approached with sharp things: shots ,knives, bees, things involving doctors, not scared but nervous and uncomfortable, i had to overcome the fear when I went to Architecture school due to the use of X-acto for making scale models and cutting board; which i always fought 'cause people played alot with those and i tended to get nervous and pissy. That early age experience made me change something in my developmental behavior , in this case it provoked fear instead any other anomaly.

in the nature nurture equation/ formula ( a percentange of each) what the child is neglected during development, and what the child didn't experience
bares on the " outcome" as well as " input". A child that is insolated from sports grows up without.. healthy exercise of aggression, team, and individual accomplishment. The first suraget rush will likely become a fetish, or obession.

So why the desperate scramble people have to tar things as evil?

Perhaps it has to do with creating a significant threat to believers of good.
An enemy is not enough, the enemy needs a catchy power! Evil!

Well I am on the line on this subject. I think it's entirely possible some of us are born "evil" but I think how we are raised contributes to whether we stay that way or not.

What is evil anyway? If we lived in a society of cannibals would murder not be considered the norm? I mean it is after all the safest way to eat since you chance death if eating something ill.

What is good? In china if you have a cat for dinner it is no big deal. You have fed your family. You are in essance doing good for your family.

Each culture defines what is good and evil and just because that culture THINKS they are right does not mean that they are. It simply means that within said culture you fit under one classification or the other.

Overall it is yet again back to nature vs. nurture. It is inescapable that when arguing about good vs evil that it does nnot come up.

good and evil is just the simple balance of the universe
u can't have 1 with out the other
or else its just complete chaos
to every good there is evil but to every evil there is good
its just the natural order of things

Agreed Evil.. the universe is about balanced energies. These come many forms, good - evil, man - woman, Positive - Negative. It has nothing to do with gods take the gods out of the equation and it all still exists. We are creatures that have male and female hormones, and therefore we are also have the capacity to be good, evil or balanced and neither.

I dont believe we are born good or evil, it is a path we choose to follow. I am sure like myself we were all taught from a young age the difference between right and wrong, good and bad. No one is perfect we all make mistakes and that is how we learn, if we dont learn from these then we have chosen to go down the wrong path.

I feel it is a chose we make during or lives not from when we are born. No one was born good or evil, we made a chose somewhere in our lives that pushed us into a direction of being good or evil. Besides no one is a true saint we all have done something in our pass that was wrong does that make us evil? No I dont believe so. Look at the Devil he was Gods right hand man so to speak yet he did something that God casted him out of heaven so it is said. If the Devil wasnt born evil how can anyone.

Babies are innocent, so hence forth they are not good or evil, I think it is how we are raised as to how we become later on in life

I agree everyone thinks of the Devil as the most evil and if the devil wasnt born that way why should anyone. No one is born Good or evil. It is a choosing that the person has made through their life whether by there own doing or by their surroundings.

Disregard for humanity, what makes a person detatched from inhibitions that stop others from torture, let alone Murder.

To insult the sensibilities of the diverse masses is easy .. but the "bar" keeps raising.

In response to MBK and others who stated belief in the purely social aspect of becoming "good" or "evil";

I agree that much of our development does come from our surroundings; our cultural environment as well as our family and friends. However, to say that these are the only things that morally shape us would require an incredibly static view of all of humanity, that we are each of us born, mentally, exactly the same, and that any two people born in the exact same circumstances surrounded by family and friends that are exactly the same, will develop exactly the same to each other.

Take at look at Ted Bundy. He grew up in a relatively normal environment, with the abnormalities ranging from not knowing who his real father was to believing that his mother was actually his older sister up until high school.

Now, let's take a look at a close friend of mine, whose first memory was being locked up in a cabinet by their father and having that cabinet break and fall to the ground. Everything else that happened to my friend since then, I'm not going to say; suffice it to say that my friend now has severe issues with their nervous system and had frequent seizures when they were a teenager.

Who became a serial killer, and who became a loving parent of three children?

It is impossible for me to believe that it is merely social influence that shapes our alignment with "good" or "evil". What that extra influence is will range from person to person you ask; free will, chemical imbalances, spiritual influences...

Ah, who knows. Personally, I think it's a mix of all three. Phillip Zimbardo will tell you that social influence can greatly impact us, more so than most of us believe, and that we need to be aware of social influence in order to repudiate it at the right times. However, he does go on to say that social influence does not excuse us from certain choices we choose to make; it only serves to help explain why we would make those choices. So, there's a fellow who believes in both social influence and free will. I believe the third comes into play because of various experiences, but since such experiences were largely esoteric in nature (only a handful occurred in the presence of others who witnessed the same), I can't tell anyone to believe as I do without their own evidences.

So take your pick, but do keep in mind my friend, who overcame a horrific childhood and young adulthood to become an amazingly well-adjusted individual and a more than competent parent. At the very least, our own personal willpower can overcome social influence in a big way.

Dabbler.....This " bar ". what do you mean?

Like...for acts? or what?

Correct.

If the last "Front Page Shocker" is not topped then it is not " evil" enough.

Well, what about people that are born murderer's and can't control it?

That is a far reaching statement. I have never seen any case for someone being a born murder!

Jeffy domer!

or however you spell his name.

What about child molesters...like MJ?

Thats another absolute statement, do you actually know he did it, where you present to say so, otherwise its only informal data. Thats what I mean that when one witness a absolute assumption rapidly turns into fact for others, furthermore a repetitive reaction on what is not factible or evidenced as a truth, you can poison masses with one speech weather is for positive or negative lies on the narrator to poison/uprise the receptor perception.

That all depend in who is the creator. If you are created by evil, what ever your parents do, will not change the outcome of your evil doing. If you are created by good, then, good for you.

Markus...you cant be " created " good or evil.

In a world that presumes that duality exists you could.

However antimatter, is destroyed when it comes into contact with good. I supose that something created evil in a good world would not last long. Perhaps this is what happens also when good is converted to evil, tehre si a threshhold point at which point tehre is an explosive reaction and teh evil is destroyed, causing much change (favorable or not) in the positive material plane.

Read the bible and find out.

O lord...

yes, well, if everyone believed the Bible it would all make it so much easier, now wouldn't it?

THAT, however, is not the case. But kudos, to your very simple answer for this.

In fact that book you speak of "plagerize" many other text with likewise myth of creation of various ancient civilization perception of "our origins"; If it was by that book we would mostly "all" be robots without further outlooks of things other than the acceptance of a programed overview of life in a narrow spectrum (aka fanatics), some may contradict their beliefs in correlation to the renderings the text deem/exhort factible datum in subscribers nature(open subscribers), but atleast accept external possibilities instead of blocking the nurture of what "rationalization" really provides in the human 'unique condition' of looking for the truth throught observation and rationality. The bible is just a guide for specific groups, I wouldn't deny that it doesn't work in the domination process of "moral ethics" or the forging of a "civilized" society for most individuals outlooks- but is not even close to -utopic- as they might view/say it is. It may have more pros than cons, but it doesn't lead to either truth or the advent of a true openminded personality that may influence a more positive judgement in others than the doctrine itself.

as a person who has grown up in two bad homes where there was a lot of violence coming around and around you can be good with random outbursts of evil for example you are made fun of for years and you turn the other cheek all the time then out of the blue you just unconciously strike out at anyone and everyone on account of all the pain and suffering you endure or you can be completely evil and once again out of the blue unconciously and suddenly have episodes of good. so i guess what im saying is that there is both good and evil within people and sometimes one side or the other simply overwhelms the other side an example is a kid raised to be the best that he can be is shown all the love and support to amount to something and one day just goes on a killing spree then another kid who may have been beaten and abused his whole life may one day just subconciously go into a field that requires some form of the evil that he had gone through to make the world a bit of a better place

How about people who sign up to possibly KILL people? HMMM. Are they born into it, I think not. Are they evil, well to some yes, for killing. To others no, for saving lives and peoples living conditions. This has been going on for centuries. It is PERCEPTION. If someone raped your child at age 8, would you want to kill them, or would you secretly hire someone to do it? Either way, you are a killer too. The people at the White House who wage WAR on other people are no different than I am who pulls the trigger. Evil is everywhere as well as good. And someone spoke of the Bible. Here is one for YOU... "If you thought it, you may as well of done it as you will be judged." HMMM. Seems to me, everyone has EVIL and GOOD inside them as well as those scary skeletons they store within themselves (evil at its best, secrets). I am a soldier of the US ARMY, not born into, but made part of to help this country out. Am we evil? I would have to say yes and no. You choose, it is based on PERCEPTION right?

good and evil are just word we use to describe things we agree with or dont
we all do things for our own reasons but its not till other view them are they given the good or evil markings
and to be honest think we are all both show me a person that says he is good and I will show you a lier

I have been called evil for a lot of my life by lots of people when you consider that I am a biker, have lots of freinds on bikes, cause alot of mayhem, get into fights, break the law and refuse to take shit from any one male or female and on that basis most people would asume that but although I can be violent it is always for cause I will stand by my freinds without needing to be asked, My family are the ones I have spiled blood with and given some of my own for, and I will never yeild to any one

but in my own veiw I see my self as nether good or bad I live my life by simple thngs: I do what I must, and do what I please the view of good and evil is made by those lookin from the out side in
so I dont think any one realy has a a choice on how the rest of the world views them

I personally dont beleive in good and evil. Because one good thing a person does may be portyed as wrong or evil to another. Whats good and whats evil is not set in stone. But people can change if they are willing.

In all things there is a balance. We possess the ability to be good and evil depending upon enculteration, opportunity, need, desire and mental capability at any given moment in life. It is the unpredictable nature that makes us what we are.

I think that it's possible to be born good or evil because of what your soul had done its past life. If in your past life you were a good person then you would be a good person in the next life, the same would apply if you were good but you decided to be evil it would depend how evil your soul ws at the time that you died.

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