The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

In my opinion it would be taking such a big chance to go back and meddle out of an emotional stance. I mean most would I think if they could. Especially if it was a loved one like a child, etc. The only thing I would worry about, in so doing, coming back and everything you held dear was gone or at least drastically changed, because of the chain reaction you set in motion...Paradox. I don't know, like anyone else, I might chance it thinking I could control the situation but then you have to take into consideration the fact that it might have been the fate of that person for a reason. It would be a difficult choice for me but maybe not for others.

Whether it be a friend or a loved one,I would not go back in time to save them.It is the pain of a death or the love of a birth that creates who we are in life.Even though I miss those that has passed on,they still live in my memories and pictures.Changing history by going back in time may have its consequences,like any path in life,fate is involved.Who are we to change fate if it was possible to travel in time.As for as
religion..I don't have much to say on that subject.Only this,God says,you may use the unrighteous manna,just don't misuse it.So,its up to man or woman how they choose to use it.

Have to agree with Azuredark, changing a paradox of any event could have serious reprocusions in our time,...if we could travel back that is.

There would be repricusion, not to mention their would be a flood of people lineing up to apply for, and present their appeal. Imagine the insurance fraud potential!

I feel a pardox would happen for only one thing can inhabit one time at a time. Would love to travel in time yet what would I change.

I would settle for nonmaterial presence,

To go back, but only to observe.

I can conceive the potential to serve the present by being able to observe the past.

It would be possible in many forms,but the energy that you would need would be immense.

first...hawking also has stated that time travel is possible...both forwards and backwards.
the energy required is more than we could produce at this time.

as for doing it?
no repercussions at all.... so i say do it if you can.
no such things as paradoxes.
~W~

to add to my last post, to travel into the future, even as a non material presence would be suffice to return and gain an immense advantage.

Wolf, I must look up Hawkings opinion on time travel now that you mentioned it.

I think time travel is not far off. One possibility in time travel would be parallel time lines of events. Multiple realities past and present, going on at the same time. Time is proven to be elastic. For example, a clock will run slow if it is on something moving. Perhaps the human mind can not witness this by gazing at a watch, but it's known in physics. Check out Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity and time dilation.

exactly.
for example, if i were to go back in time and shoot my father when he was a child, i wouldnt cease to exist. i would just have created a new timeline that ran parallel to the old timeline.
again, hawking suggests that there are infinite time lines or at least time line possibilities.
ergo, no need to worry about paradox.
you could go back and shoot hitler if that is your wish...and create a new timeline without him.

or rescue your child hood friend from death...without fear that he might turn into hitler jr. (at least not in your timeline).

does that make sense?
~W~

But let's say there were repercussions. Say for example, you were attempting go to back to in time to a specific incident, date and time and save someone who let's say was about to be hit by something, let's say a truck for example. Would if you were also killed along with them in the process of trying to save them. So then things really would have gone wrong. That would be a repercussion cause you'd be dead along with them.

It would probably depend on the person. If it was anyone other than my mother or son, than no. I wouldn't do it because the altering of one life-changing event would create a whole new life-changing event of equal or greater value. Everything happens for a reason. I just wouldn't be able to help myself when it comes to my child. I would sacrifice my life to save the life of my child.

Why would I do this? Very simple. I am 27 years old. I have had the type of life where I have seen everything I am going to see already. My son has not. To me, his life is worth more than my own + a hundred other lives.

As for playing God, I don't see it that way, but I do understand how and why it could be seen like that and heck.. maybe it is playing God, but I am willing to take that risk when it comes to my two year old baby.

no...havent seen the butterfly effect, but the butterfly effect is more about chaos theory than time travel.

yes...if i got killed saving anyone in any time, that would be a negative repercussion...but that could happen this very day without time travel.

my point is that while we might go back and change a time line, we cant change OUR timeline. its not possible.
~W~

There are theories presented that state there wouldn't probably be a paradox. The thing is, we don't time travel so there are no paradoxes and we really don't know either way since everything that is said about it is either from literary works or theory. One cannot unequivocably say there wouldn't be...we just don't know and I think that is what many are worried about.

In theory, some don't think we could travel backward without entering a parallel universe in returning.

"Although time travel has been a common plot device in fiction since the 19th century, and one-way travel into the future is arguably possible given the phenomenon of time dilation based on velocity in the theory of special relativity (exemplified by the twin paradox), as well as gravitational time dilation in the theory of general relativity, it is currently unknown whether the laws of physics would allow backwards time travel."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel

"In physics, the twin paradox is a thought experiment in special relativity, in which a twin makes a journey into space in a high-speed rocket and returns home to find he has aged less than his identical twin who stayed on Earth. This result appears puzzling because each twin sees the other twin as traveling, and so, according to the theory of special relativity, paradoxically each should find the other to have aged more slowly. How the seeming contradiction is resolved, and how the absolute effect (one twin really aging less) can result from a relative motion, can be explained within the standard framework of special relativity. The effect has been verified experimentally using precise measurements of clocks flown in airplanes." This is an experiment in time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox

We just don't know what would happen except for certain things theoretically. There is always some danger venturing into the unknown. The most common idea of paradox is this one:

The grandfather paradox

One subject often brought up in philosophical discussion of time is the idea that, if one were to go back in time, paradoxes could ensue if the time traveler were to change things. The best examples of this are the grandfather paradox and the idea of autoinfanticide. The grandfather paradox is a hypothetical situation in which a time traveler goes back in time and attempts to kill his grandfather at a time before his grandfather met his grandmother. If he did so, then his father never would have been born, and neither would the time traveler himself, in which case the time traveler never would have gone back in time to kill his grandfather.

Autoinfanticide works the same way, where a traveler goes back and attempts to kill himself as an infant. If he were to do so, he never would have grown up to go back in time to kill himself as an infant.

This discussion is important to the philosophy of time travel because philosophers question whether these paradoxes make time travel impossible. Some philosophers answer the paradoxes by arguing that it might be the case that backwards time travel could be possible but that it would be impossible to actually change the past in any way, an idea similar to the proposed Novikov self-consistency principle in physics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel

So therefore it is still being debated and we will know when we figure out how to do it providing we should do that. I agree, I would rather go where I could just watch.

Okay wikipedia is not the greatest source you could be using as it is written by everyday people like you or me who don't have all the facts. A lot of people don't know that.

It isn't like Wiki posts whatever the hell anyone puts into it.
There's that whole *Citation needed* Thing, and editors who monitor the stream.
I know. I've tried to change it just to fuck with people.
"Australlleeeah, Home of the BRewskters! Breeetan, Home of the oustraleeans and gum"

Shrug. Since it's all just theory anyway, like Dabbler said, it doesn't matter if it's a scientist posting it, or a chimp.
Chances are both would be just as wrong.
And if that scientist got it right, i'll be able to go back in time and change this post.

I would go back in time to save someone, but i think this would be for selfish reasons, we can't deal with loss and grief.

I think the whole playing god idea would be because, well obviously to do that you would inheritantly have control over life and death, who lives who dies. Also the repercussions are not known, so not only would you be interferring in one persons life (the life you save) you would, by them living be interfering in the lives around that person, by them just being alive you are changing the future and the lives of everyone they come into contact with.

Most scientific theories, to me, seem only like a way for scientist--who might not have the greatest of social skills--to interact or debate with other scientist.

On one side you have those that believe in Time Travel (weighing the good benefits over the bad) and the theories thereof, and on the other side you have those that believe in the dangers (butterfly affect, chaos stuff, etc.) of Time Travel. Who's right? Neither? Perhaps it is just the normal progression of thought for anyone that has enough "time" (har har) on hand to stare off into space.

As our brains evolved to fire on more cylinders we have forgotten to slow it down and look at where our feet are falling right in front of us. My own food for thought.

A great movie is Sound of thunder where time travel company sets up a hunting factor and things start to change because of a mistake and de-evolve in some cases. Or millinuim. most people believe a paradox would occur or change the dynamics of the life we know..

i only teach physics, but my first degree is in nuclear rather than in theoretical physics. but based on the quantum mechanics papers ive read, a paradox just isnt possible.
as someone stated before, i go back in time and kill myself as a child...so how does that work?
do i go pop, and therefore save the baby? or does the baby die, therefore removing myself from reality?

that doesnt make much sense. the infinite reality theory is the only one that makes even a modicum of sense.

but as i always say...
your mileage may vary.
~W~

oh...as for playing god, we play god each time we split the atom to make electricity.
we play god when we generate electricity from any source.
we play god when we extend the lifespan by way of antibiotics, a bypass, kidney transplant, etc.
we play god when we fly on jets, or do a hundred of our daily things that would have shocked and or amazed people one hundred years ago.
the playing god thing just doesnt wash with me.
~W~

yes sound of thunder was good on how things might change because of an action in the past like killing a bug.....or other things ..... is a very interesting thread

ok...so i go back in time...
i kill a bug and set off a chain of events that significantly changes history, ...im never born, so i cant go back in time to kill the bug.

did the bug die, or not? am i born or not?

if someone has changed our past, its changed...do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars. we are a product of that change.
if we go back to change something, then we just create an alternate timeline.
~W~

Lord wolf if the past was to change, like Lincoln was never shot, than events or children he could have would change aspects of what we know. causing a ripple that would work all the way through time.

In the same case, lets say you went back in the past and drank with some friends and going home a friend died in some accident. the friend ends up to be your parent but has now died as a kid. so how can you be born?

Ripple effects again. but remember speculations for it is not plausible at this time.

When it comes to the paradox thing... i really don't think time would allow itself to be so fragile when it knew it would be bent from the beginning.
Rather i think time has segments of the past laid out for future time travelers, and the past they go back to won't be a part of ours, but rather an exact replica on an alternate line, that will branch off leaving us without any changes..
Like a venation on a leaf, perhaps.

Whether or not time travel is possible and all that headache information, I will just reply to the question of the post.

If I had the choice to go back in time to save a loved one or prevent something from happening... I don't think I would take that chance. It's a very big choice if given but I believe that things happen for a reason. Certain events in your life teach you lifelong lessons and some things you need to go through, especially death. It's all a part of your souls growth...
Emotions completely aside, I would not go back in time... it's just a part of life, some things needs to happen. If it were a great injustice to my loved one, that would make it even more difficult to turn down the choice of going back. Depending on the circumstances, I would not want to mess with the flow of life, and that includes death...

exactly cabrion, that is what the theory is.
a true paradox just isnt possible.
~W~

yet paradox would cause you being an idenity could not same the same time or space of you before. so paradox.,

my point being simply this:

if i got back in time and kill myself as a child...then i cant grow up to go back in time and kill myself.

now how is that even possible???

i have yet to read the work of any one in the physics community that thinks a paradox is remotely possible.
~W~

Say as a child you were in a fire, or your shed collapsed, or your father shot an intruder,
you go back in time to kill yourself, and as you wait you find yourself in that fire, or dead in a collapsed shed, or shot by your own dear old dad.
if you could go back in time and attempt to change anything that held any real significance... *nobody cares if you ate the last slice of pizza*.... i think time sealed it, and left options to kill off anyone trying to change them.

but that last slice of pizza was the best!

i dont think time is sentient....do you really completely discount the parallel universe theory then?
~W~

i think i would go if given the chance.

If we could time travel, imagine how many millions of people would go back to 'save' people from accidental deaths. People would no doubt save several, each. Since so many die from unnatural causes like accidents, suicide, and murder... then think about our population. It's horrible that we have to deal with death but what would we do if our population, like, doubled all at once? What the heck would we do with all these people?

People are always trying to find some way to escape the realities of life. Time travel, living forever, cloning... it all seems neat for a few minutes- then you are left with what this wonderful stuff brings along with it. Maybe more negative than positive.

Spot on Image,

Even if ( IF) such tech existed it would be so regulated!

Of course it could be spectulated that even though the tech would be regulated, " wild cat independants" would still operate in the direct interst if established " well to dos*".

* read wealthy, and company.

well whether or not a new timeline does or doesnt happen or a distortion of all we know whether we could change what happened in the past or not I would still like the ability to see loved ones again if only for one time for a brief moment especially my lil bro and fave uncle. I think that it could be very theraputic to many but alas the little people would never benefit from this only the elite and rich of the world would be able to......

Butterfly effect was a basic theory on changing the past when time jumping occurred. Which in many ways seemed plasible yet fictious. yet possiblities.

I rather asked why you would wish to go back in the first place. To save someone? Then what?

The mere act of going back created another time-line - and reality! You can't stay yourself because your other self is living there. (You're out of phased.) If you go forward the person you saved is still in the past time-line. Not the time-line that you are now back to. They're still dead here.

You did nothing but wasted your time. Pun intended.

The author of The Time Traveler's Wife has an interesting spin- as his traveler's had no control on the futures outcome. As a character tried, and 'fate' could not be altered.

That film was awesome!


if i could travel back I would, and if I could save people I loved I would. The Darren Shan books have a good take on it, they say that the univers understand the important events in history, and if someone is taken out of that event another will come along to take thier place. Would be nice if it were true.

...but if it wasent it would be intrestng to see how you could alter the time line. lol.

dabbler...yes...the well to do would prolly have access to it...
but you forgot the biggest organized criminal element of all....
the government! lol they would grab it, they would deny it existed, and claim anyone that disputed that was racist! LOL

jokes aside, my point earlier wasnt based on a fictional tale, but it is current quantum physics theory.

still...its entertaining to spin "what ifs" sometimes.
~W~

If I traveled back in time
all of the mistakes I made
I would undo them.
But would I still be the person I am today?
Would I be married to someone else?
Would my son not be born?
Alot of deep thought if possible I could.

There is always the possibillity that you couldnt go into the past unless you were actually meant to. Therefore, your actions might or might not have an effect on what you were originally wanting to do.

I want to kill some cats but I like them....
Mmm how about putting people in Boxes...any volunteers?

I need 13 for each universe.
Here is why~cause and affect of time and quantum shifts affecting much bigger things like whether this kitty is dead or not.

I might take the journey back in time, not sure I'd attempt to change anything. I might just go to observe. It's risky perhaps to go and try & rewrite history. That is, if it's even possible to do so.

i disagree with you cadrewolf...the math all does support that its possible, its just a question of alternate realities.
infinite realities are possible on a quantum level, so that eliminates the entire paradox problem.
~W~

math says it is probable, yet we could not get enough energy right now to create such a opening., yet on paper and the true aspect are to different things. for if one number is off than what a hole that does not open but starts to create a black hole scenerio on earth.

I dunno if this really could be possible. Wouldn't there than be the butterfly effect??

"We could not get enough energy to create the opening etc"
This is not really very logical, when dealing with the quantum level and the forces /equations that created this universe maths shows us it was all created from zero.From Nothing.

Therefore little or no energy is required just a complex sequence of equations formulated by some amazing thought patterns.
There is a man who can form complex mathmatical algorithms to solve mathmatical problems computer struggle with, there are people who beat computers at chess.The witch who turned me was one such, she travelled with her chess board.Here is a quote linking maths and neurones to human function.
"If we can get the signals from these neurons and interpret them with what is called decoding algorithms, then we can move a robot device placed on the paralysed arm."
To conclude; the way to approach the problem is not using conventional energy and machines.I think precog/psychic tests are for those who can instinctively use their mind in this fashion.
Today I saw this article, perhaps here is the downside of thoughts manipulating matter.
http://news.uk.msn.com/odd-news/features/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=154165831

true a huge amount of force would be needed to create an opening. Maybe sometime down the road we may figure the solution out. but now it still remains a myth in the minds of people. equations on paper. yet think of the possibilities it would hold and the destruction it may cause.

cadrewolf
ive seen some numbers that indicate the only source of power that might allow such movement in space/time would be dark matter.
even then it appears it would take alot.
~W~

Interesting I did not know that, but it fits with some circumstancial evidence I have come across that some men/entities are manipulating ordinary matter using dark forces. If only there was a manual.It is easier for a child to smash up Lego then construct a toy so this maybe a dangerous point in time.

dark matter is something that we really know little about, and it is thought that to collect enough to manipulate time, would take more technology than the time travel itself.

still an interesting theory.
~W~

I think going back to save someone is a HORRIBLE idea.

1. You never know how you are changing history
2. You can do more damage attempting to save someone...
and what if you fail?
3. Life is precious because of death, once you can save people who have died... people will not care to appreciate things and treat life with the same manner of understanding as they do...[even if it is only just a little now]

So...I say no.

Yep.. the butterfly affect. I wouldn't go back in time to save people who died though. The only thing I would go back in time to change would be the argument my husband and I had before we lost our son. I wouldn't care if I woke up with no left arm. At least I'd have my son back.

Time is quite the effective predator. It doesn't matter how far forwards or backwards you go, eventually, you have to die.

an interesting thought tho

if we actually can travel backwards in time, that means that all events are taking place at the same time, just at different places in the time space continuum.

that kind of blows me away.

~W~

if you really want to get technical, the Novikov self-consistency principle allows for time travel without invoking the grandfather Paradox.

The universe was not created out of nothing and the theories that suggest that are well *theories* of which there is not a majority view.

The universe was created either by a singularity that went postal (ie the Big Bang as commonly understood), was created by the collision of 2 membranes (massive things outside our dimensional existence) which then pooped our universe out, or was created through some other means like God for example.

Either way the universe came from something, even if that something was just energy alone and not matter.

It's a misconception of the terms universe, time, multiverse, nothing etc that leads to people thinking our universe could have come from nothing. Only in the limited scope of our singular universe could we have come from "nothing" because to our perceptions (from our position within our single universe) it may appear we came from nothing. But again, the theory that the universe popped out from nothing is only a theory and not one that's well understood or widely accepted.

As for time travel. Nothing with mass can go faster than the speed of light however energy can. Particles called "tachyons" for example can move at any speed beyond light but can't travel slower than light speed. Energy and information however can go faster than light, even at infinite speeds. We see this when it comes to quantum entanglement and similar theories.

Then you have things like 'warp drive' aka Alcubierre drive where the person/ship stays in one place and the universe is warpped around it causing a star light years away to come to you and not you to it.

Remember, as an object with mass increases in speed the energy it takes to further increase speed goes up. squared. So, to move a spaceship at 100% light speed would take 100+% of all the energy in the known universe.

Personally I don't think direct time travel is possible. You can not go back to your exact past because by you being there you've then altered it creating a whole new time line. We might be able to travel to similar/parallel pasts but not the same specific ones.

As for going to the future it is possible, it happens all the time on a very, very small scale but it isn't time travel in the popular sense. If I get in a spaceship and run around the Solar System at light speed for a period of time and then come back to Earth to find myself 100 years in the 'future' it's only a perceived jump to the future. My spaceship and I are both still hooked into our old time line and we're still in the past but the rest of the universe (which includes Earth) has moved forward in time.

To really jump from time to time is something ...well it's just difficult lol

and thats why it, as well as things like intergalactic travel are still theories, no one said were were going to do it just that it could be possible and if it was should you do it.

xzavier:
im just impressed as hell that you decided to give the lesson like that. way cool.


tachyons have always fascinated me. i read a theory that they may be the key to faster than light travel (ie..not actually going the speed of light...only faster).

do you teach college level or work for a research facility?
~W~

Haha I'd kill myself if I had to work at a college lol

Thankfully I've never had to step outside the realm of private/corporate research groups. The bulk of my time has been spent with private think tanks, working for a person(s) or just for myself.

Being that tachyons are still hypothetical particles little is known (or even theorized) about them. I'd imagine they'd be rather hard to find or create in the lab. I've often wondered if you could somehow capture a massive amount of them inside a strong magnetic field that then surrounded some vessel, and then you altered the field to give the particles direction if that could then impart faster than light speed to the ship. I haven't thought too deep into it but it's a neat idea, even if it's destined for fiction lol.

how tiny are we talking? because I know there are ways to gather electrons and they are pretty tiny

It's not because of their size but the fact that tachyons can NOT travel slower than the speed of light (186,000 miles per second). And actually as their energy decreases their speed increases, which is the reverse of other particles.

But if I'm not mistaken they're generally regarded as having negative mass.

ok, now I may only have taken one chemistry class in high school, but how can something have negative mass?

lol well that's where needing more than a high school class comes in to play.

There is A LOT in physics that doesn't make any normal sense, especially when you get down to the quantum world. Heck, that's why there are so many more theories in quantum physics than ordinary branches because Newtons laws don't exactly work, among others.

Negative mass is still pretty much hypothetical although possible, maybe.

It's nearly 2 AM and I don't care to write a long and fairly confusing bit on negative mass but do a Google on Hermann Bondi and negative mass and you'll find a fair amount of information on it.

But again mass is by definition positive so it can get a little tricky and thus remains, firmly, in the realm of theory. At least for now.

Ok I read some of what you asked me to and yeah its a bit on the confusing side.


I time travel was real I don't think I would g back just forward.

You go Xavier.:D something I might bring up is the light cone...I am sure you know what I am referring to.As it stands,under Einsteins SR theory the cone is ridged.So somehow you fold it unto itself.And there are some other things I will bring up so you can let us know what your thoughts are ..What do you feel about that proposal LW?

as i recall tachyons do have negative mass...

the study of tachyons also may in time lead to ftl travel.

face it...if can get around that whole "C" thing, we have it made...so if can jump from point something C to C point something, then we might be able to get past the limitation that the special theory of relativity set down.

300,000 kms
not just a good idea...
its the law
LOL
~W~

Something just occurred to me:

If one does travel back or forwards in time, will you have to factor in an equation of the Earth's location in the Universe at that separate point in time?

Given that the Universe is expanding.

That is a great point Sadness.
I am actually working on a response ,but have been unable to get into the file where I have saved it as I have added to it.I want to get out of the habit of double posting and just posting thoughts as I have them,so I have been consolidating.The importance of the position of the earth would depend on how one travels.In speculation of course.

I'd go back in time to save a loved one. Though many would say it is playing God.


This is what I don't understand: If someone was killed, why would that be an event that was 'meant to be'? Meant to be to me is falling in love, or getting divorced. Not getting killed!

I'm getting off topic. Sorry. I'd do it. I'd play God. Why? Because these are chances you take for someone you love~

but tima, thats what i was talking about before.

if something is "meant to be", then that means it cannot be changed as it must already have happened.

if to change such a thing is playing god, how is saving somone from choking to death any different?
~W~

I believe in something i call final form. The timeline we are in has already taken into account all time travel (if such a thing is possible) everything has already ended up exactly as it is. and in going back in time to undo something we will in fact make it happen. this prevents paradox and such things like that. the universe is constantly striving for greater balance and equilibrium. The current state of the universe is the simplest form it can take. and it is constantly striving for this.

plus if you know your stephen king books the giant furry mouth things would eat you up anyways lolz...

Here is a bit of reading for us..

http://www.xs4all.nl/~johanw/PhysFAQ/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html

im totally guessing here, but im guessing that any equation for time travel would have to include each point in each axis.
you would have a spacial axis that you would have to exist in relation to (where you exist in the universe) which would take into account all movement in the usual 3 dimensions.
then you would have to take into account that 4th dimension ...actual point in time.

would suck if you wanted to go back in time 50 years, only to find out that you were 50 years in the past...but floating in space at the point that the earth currently occupies in space! lol
~W~

I would not want to go back to change or see or do anything different because I would be afraid that by doing so I would change everything that I have worked so hard to achieve in this time..

not sure funny is the right word sofia...depends on your sense of humor.

in the book the time machine, had it been real, it would have needed a serious computer to track the earth, and its rotation.

even if it tracked the earth, if it did not take into account rotation, then you might end up in the past on earth...but you might be in the middle of the pacific ocean.

another potential bad scene.
but for all you fiction writers, that might give you an interesting plot device....perhaps the time traveler ends up on gilligans island?
~W~

I found the discussions on time travel vary interest and would like to add my sincere comments.
It has always been my understanding and knowledge that traveling back is not the problem, rather finding the proper time bands to get back because time is always changing.
But then I could be all wrong with my idea and please forgive me.
Peace and Blessings.