I was reading about Toronto’s new horizons research foundation apparently designed a ghost from nothing.
This ghost “caused” paranormal events, they named it Philip, gave him a tragic history and some unfinished business, they even listed his traits and dislikes.
At first they found nothing happened, they stopped concentrating so hard and relaxed.
That’s when they got result of raps on the table ect to questions asked and it matched his invented profile perfectly.
At one point the table shot across the room , metal bent and cool breezes.
One member told Philip he didn’t exist that they made him up … the events stopped.
Latter they believed in him again and Philip was back.
philip link to a page on
it
Well that really is extrordinary in itself...Not that I believe it
Although why would you be able to make a vampire even if you can make a ghost?
A ghost isn't a vampire...
interesting that you should post this here. i have heard the story of phillip, the ghost that was invented. it's a very interesting phenomena, which lends credibility again to the theory that indeed we are as the mind suggests we are.
i have been posing the question of the mind of evolution in my house forum. it basically goes along the lines that at some point in our life, or lives, as the case may be, a willful determination is made to evolve... for some of us, that decision evolved us into a vampire. the mind rules the body in physical appearance and in form. the needs of the vampire that some would call psycho somatic are indeed real, as this is the reality the mind has enforced on the body.
as an evolution, it is not something that is undone at the whims of the person.
sounds interesting but like before a ghost isn't a vamp, vampires have bodys and ghosts are sprits or the bodyless.
I do find your post interesting jenova and points educated, not sure what the house post are you talk off ?, im sure it would be good to read …. As for vampires are not ghost … lol what is a vampire
Im not talking about people living a vamp life …I know how to make one of those lol
I don't think we could create a vampire. A vampire is a breathing, living being. Not something you can imagine to be.
I dont think we can make one,or create one, we might be able to summon and existing one but as to create one...no, maybe create an electric wave strong enough from our brain to make the event happen but nothing more
Awesome ! I'vee heard this story before . It seems pretty possible . When you mess with the unknown anything can happen . Or it could be all a chever fake too
To those who would state it would not be possible to create a vampire....
How, then, did the modern vampire come into being? Surely it's not a fluke of nature that *pop* magically happened and all of a sudden, "Here we are!".
No, evolution did not occur as a result of random pops and belches at birth. Evolution is very precise. It spawned creatures with like heritages. Many animals, while they may not be an evolution of a different species, do have a common ancestor further up the evolutionary family tree. Simply put, while I do not believe mankind came from an evolution of apes, I do believe that mankind and the apes have a common ancestor. Perhaps this is the true 'missing link'; this common ancestor that spawned several evolutionary possibilities.
I believe that evolution works as the response to crisis and the threat of extinction. The greater the threat, the greater the possibility for change. And evolution is not a simple case of "apes begat man". Rather, evolution from a common ancestor brought about the different species as a list of solutions to a crisis.
Using the above model of evolution, we are merely the "Higher degree of intelligence" bullet point addition to opposible thumbs on the laundry list of crisis response.
With that above model, then, it should be no surprise that mankind itself is responding to yet another series of crisis that is spawning another evolutionary laundry list. Perhaps this list contains:
lavisabre:> creating something out of nothing is much harder to do. a living, breathing vampire of any kind with a physical form does not apparate the same way that Phillip, the ghost in our story, does.
Or, as another sidebar, what is it that creates reality? Phillip is an interesting manifestation of the mind of several people. If I remember correctly, each participant in this study wrote down bits and pieces of Phillip's life and these are the bits and pieces that the apparation was said to have remembered of its life.
The study interestingly suggests that reality is comprised only of what is commonly believed/ perceived. If you use the evolutionary mind example I detailed above, then yes, the mind could create the reality of a vampire. But not in the sense of "let's write a story and make it real" and then *poof* there stands a separate living breathing vampire entity right before our eyes.
i think it would be interesting to be a part of that experement,i have heard of the Philip project,this would be interesting as well
So if they can do it, can we create our own lost souls to?
Could this be a servitor that they may have created? I may be way off base here, but since I am involved in Chaos magicks, that is the first thing that I thought of.I also listed a Chaos library website if you wish to read more.
Here is a shortened condensed version on some brilliant work by the athor who goes by Fra.
Servitor Creation - A Contemporary Approach
by Fra.: Negentrophy
"Having used the following methods to great success, I must still
emphazise my approach as being a mere guideline with plenty of room
left for personal interpretation and experimentation.
Historically the magician has called upon the services of entities
of his own manufacture in order to render services ranging from the
benevolent to the malefic. It would seem the approaches to their
creation have varied as widely as their specific purpose. I offer
the following as a personal approach to their manufacture.
To begin, I have found it useful to incorporate what I call a
skeletal sigil as the first step in the construction. This is
basically a pictorial sigil, ala Austin Spare (or so it is claimed),
that serves as the servitors will. (Note: it has been suggested to
me that bind-runes could also be used for this application, for
those who work within that system, this may be worth investigating.)
It must be kept in mind that all things that coincide with its
"will" will be pursued and all other ignored. Consider also that
having a servitor to "do my bidding" "bring me luck" etc. suffers
the same problems as sigils with similar nebulous directives.
Servitors given the initial will that incorporates very specific
directives and goals seem to work much better. Moreover, creating a
complex series of skeletal sigils and instilling "life-force" in the
servitor to such a degree as to give it great sentience makes it
particularly difficult to reabsorb later. Having had problems with
relatively stupid entities, I have not yet the fortitude (or lack of
sense) to create an extremely "smart" creature. Incorporating a
single "will" sigil should be sufficient to the task at hand and is
recommended to the beginner.
Once you have created this skeletal sigil, it is time to flesh it.
Without being conscious of its original intent, stare at the sigil
in as deep a trance as possible. Go to the hum. Make your space-time
become cave-like and moist. Look at the sigil, let it move, give it
form, give it what it needs to live, etc. You are trying to get to a
point where you can completely visualize this beast of your own
creation, so you can empower it. Let your imagination run wild as
the sigil pulses with form and purpose. Remember, you must become
intimately familiar with its form, so let it stabilize before you
continue on with something else. You will know when you are finished
with this part when you can recall, smell, feel the thing in its
entirety from all perspectives without permutations. You will be
surprised with what you end up with.
Now we empower the critter. With the servitor completely visualized,
in a place conductive to this phase, allow your consciousness to
engulf it. A good thing to practice is listening to and feeling your
own automatic functions. How do they feel to you? What does the
energy feel like that animates your being? What does "the breath of
life" feel, taste, sound like? Another good exercise, so I have been
told, is to find some roadkill, and after poopooing the
inconsiderate driver, take it into a room WHERE YOU WILL NOT BE
DISTURBED and sit with it for about a week. Stare at it, allow your
consciousness to encompass it, get to a point where you can feel the
maggots crawling around inside. Get to the point when you can feel
the new life in it, growing, eating and reproducing. Feel the
distinction between perceiver and perceived diminish. You will feel
the entire process of decomposition. These kind of exercise prove
very useful at this stage because you will want to instill and
"become" aware of these processes of life within your servitor to a
very acute degree and "nourish" it with these animating principles.
Again, know the energy that you will be using to animate it. I
recommend an Orphidian method of empowerment. As with visualisation,
you will want to continue this nurturing phase until all of the life
systems are stable. No fluctuation allowed. This may take a
considerable amount of time, patience and energy. After
stabilization, you may find it a good time for naming.
Following the empowerment phase (and whenever the entities services
are needed) it is advisable to incorporate rituals specific to the
instruction of the servitor. Make sure your specific task coincides
with its prime directive. (Don`t have an entity with a martial aire
go looking solely for money, you may have to fight for it!) For
example, if an entity called, "Braga", had as its prime directive
"to find a new sex partner" (as articulated in the skeletal sigil)
one would call it up in a ritual and instruct it to "make your aid
available at the party tonight". This "instructional" phase is what
you will resort to when specific tasks are required of the
psychodenizen. I personally prefer simple pathworkings after a
meditative period in which I "sync-up" with the creature, although
Enochian calls may be prefered by some and simple English commands
by others. I must emphasize the importance of applying scientific
method to one`s own intuitive faculties.
At this point, what you choose to do specifically will depend
entirely on the entities` task.
Finally, you will get to a point when you will want to absorb the
creature. Speaking from a painful experience, the entities do not
want to be absorbed. This is natural considering the amount of work
that went into their manufacture. To illustrate, a while back, when
we had just started such work of which the first part was the
absorbation of previously created entities. All I`ll say is by the
time we ended that night that I ended up with 13 stitches in my head
(blood everywhere) and a bad haircut.
I have found it advisable to take the initial sigil in hand,
repeating the will sentence outloud over and over again, while
understanding that what was an independently created and fleshed
desire, was yours all along. Its power was your power. Visualize it
dissolving into a pure-energy state which you draw back into
yourself. All this should take place in an suitable atmosphere where
you can make it as intense and effective as possible. It is crucial
to make sure you have all your bases covered.
The possibilities are many, and may I suggest that you temper an
experimental fervor with caution"
http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/sseg.php
To me, it sounds like the power of suggestion. If you believe in something hard enough and convince yourself it's true, your mind takes it and runs with it. And with the mind being a very powerful thing, especially when working in a group setting, its not surprising that they "created" a ghost. But a "creating" a vampire like that seems a little extreme. Maybe making someone BELIEVE they were, yes. But not making one out of just thought alone.
I believe we can create anything with our mind. We respond to crisis in different ways.
With you all the way on that one Jenova
i have been doing some work trying to open portals to dimensions using magic and im getting some activity … I also believe it is the mind that causes it as I hold no path or god I use magic rituals ect as I see fit and in wondering if this is my mind making events happen or the magic has opened portals.
The intriguing part (to me) is the idea that "biophotons," some type of consciousness-directed energy quanta, could act on a quantum scale to alter subatomic particles and create a cascade reaction into observable reality
The Philip ghost interested me greatly as an explanation … why even gods could fade in and out of human perception if this was true.
Great post MocturnisOrchid
And wise words, such work is not for the faint hearted, play with a Ouija board and see how you feel first …
lavisbre: there are interesting books on quantum consciousness. very heady stuff, but interesting. one that i am working through now is called "the physics of consciousness". you might also consider googling "quantum consciousness" for web pages and articles. it's truly interesting stuff. puts mankind in god's seat instead of taking a lesser role.
Ahhh.. the quantum mechanics and quantum physics! When I first read the post that is what I thought of.
The quantum physicists believe that you can't have a universe without thought entering into it. In essence what the mind can focus on and think on it will bring into existence.
Can a vamp be created this way? I guess the question is who would want to
check out Fred Allan Wolfe, PhD aka Dr. Quantum
It's not only in physics. Most energy workers will tell you that the majority of what they do is based off of intent.
Acupuncturists can use points that technically are not for pain, yet when used in conjunction with range of motion exercises, pain is relieved.
While we do not understand this phenomenon, I think it is the key to what right now is medically termed: Placebo effect.
It may not be understood, but if it works then it should not be discounted. Any physician who works with pain patients will tell you this.
So yes, I think that if a person wants to be a vamp, and has the abilities (I do think some things need to be present for it to work) then I think that they will become one. To what extent depends on the abilities.
I dont think you can make something that isnt real. Maybe it was another spirit messing with them?
nope.
simple as that.
unless some millionare gothic person
(RARE)
desides to start genetic alternating research on the human body to fit the criteria of a vampire.
Untill then. they will never exist.
Sadly. v_v;
The first thing that came to mind was all the ancient gods and godesses from egypt, greece, etc. I've been wondering that lately, if the magic would work because of the practitioners intent and belief or if indeed they could think their gods into being. Why not then a vampire, or maybe a vampire spirit?
Phillp was probably a real ghost that was atracted to these people. A spirit with a simalar background. I do not beleive that they made him. As for making vampires I'm not sure one can be "made". I do think that one can be awakened.
I'm not sure if it is possible to "create" a vampire , but it is an interesting possibility.The mind is a powerful tool if used properly anything is possible,theoretically speaking.
Hi Jenova
Funny enough iv been munching through a book called Consciousness Explained by Daniel C. Dennett ……..
Is the “the physics of consciousness” by author Evan Harris?
I always love a recommended book, especially from someone who’s mind & ideas I appreciate.
The question of god did bother me for some time, the concept of a creator insults my intelligence .. yet mankind is un curable of this idea or need … I like Deepak Chopras concept that we all have a god seed/baby in us and we need to nourish our spiritual needs to make it grow and become a god. That concept has a truth I feel, it’s not out there its in side.
lavisbre:
You wrote: Is the “the physics of consciousness” by author Evan Harris?
Yes, that is the one. It's heady, and again I have yet to sludge through the whole book, but there are interesting correlations between consciousness and quantum physics.
I'm only remotely familiar with Deepak Chopra's concept of the godseed within. But it does make sense, and has interesting implications if we truly can become a 'god' ourselves.
Part of me has always believed that our souls are gods and supercede even death. When we are gone from this world, we have choices. Some may choose reincarnation to experience more than this dimension has to offer.
I hope, that when it's all said and done, I will have the opportunity to move onwards as a conscious, separate being. It's all conjecture, but a subject of great interest to me.
I have never heard of this Phillip was he a ghost conjured up by the minds of scientist?
If you believe strongly enough in something and it is one of your truths and you feel it in your soul does it matter what others think? I belive it's important to believe in whatever you want. If you think you can make one all you can do is try. I mean anything is possible right, at least thats what they say. I believe you can't make a ghost on your own, that a ghost is a soul trapped in our world, but that is my belief.
i do not think it is possible to "make" a vampire due to the fact that a vampire is a living breathing individual and a ghost is a spirit
I believe as someone stated above me, i believe that an existing Vampire could be resurrected, but i am not so sure about creating one out ov thin air. i also believe evolution is possible.
this makes no sence to me at all, how can you make a ghost, let alone a vampire? I don't see it as being anything but B.S.
Hmmmm. Well perhaps they made him up but there was an entity there anyway and by paying attention to actions(be they set up or real), the entity took over, realized they weren't talking to him/her and left.
I would have to go with the power of suggestion theory, group telekenesis or some already exsistant entity messing with them. As for making a vampire I dont think it would be possible to will a physical being into exsistance from nothing unless you are God.
u cant make a vamp. u have to be turned or be born a vamp.
This experiment was done quite some time ago. A whole book was written about Philip. It was done sort of like a channeling. Creating a vampire would be entirely different on an experimental basis because it would relate to how the researchers viewed what a vampire was. Their perceptions would be involved in the outcome and so it would be relative to their knowledge most likely based in a folkloric type of vampire or perhaps after a famous novelistic vampire. Philip was not a concrete being so are you asking if one could be created in essence to talk to in the same manner?
I don't believe we can produce a Vampire. I do believe that anyone who learns to use other parts of the brain;the regions we do not use; we may be able to produce all types of different phenomena. "Almost "anything is possible.
Vampires are physical beings. There made of flesh & blood.
A ghost is just a spirit, with no texture, or body to it.
Even if we could create ghosts, we can't create Vampires like that, there made up of what ever single human on the earth is - Flesh & blood.
I believe that Vampires are Born not made. Some people maybe would want to believe that they are turning into a vampire but if the genes aren't there they are there. It's like having blue eyes or blonde hair. Sure you can wear contacts or dye your hair but in the end unless you were born with blue eyes and blonde hair your just pretending.
To me, saying I can make a vampire how they made Philip, is like saying
If I think about you hard enough, you're going to appear in my house
A ghost is not a vampire makeing one well depends you talking about killing a human then bring him/her back to life as a vampire no. or from scrach no not even close. try again
I guess time to make a post on what you think a vamp is
To quote VR
1. A blood-sucking ghost; a soul of a dead person superstitiously believed to come from the grave and wander about by night sucking the blood of persons asleep, thus causing their death. This superstition is now prevalent in parts of Eastern Europe, and was especially current in Hungary about the year 1730.
Or some one living the life
If you can make a ghost then you can make a blood sucking one?
I think it may be possible to create something along the lins of a vampire if you can take someone and lead them to believe that they need blood of others to survive as well as their everyday requirements then it may be possible to create a vampire-like person but not an actual vampire....=)
I'm not sure we can make a vampire out of just thought alone..but having said that. I'm certain humans could have evolved/will evolve into vampires. In a way that would solve alot of earths' problems. We have too many people as is, and not enough resources, so if we made ourselves into a resource it would be a temporary relief for our planet. Less humans, more vampires, means less people eating livestock/vegtables, means we need less of the land to produce food, and we can let it go back to nature.
Also it wouldn't be hard to genetically produce vampires.
As the dominant species on the planet, we are genetically compelled to evolve and contin life on this planet. We will probably evolve into several species with human as the common ancestor.
wow thats awsome but then again why would they create something just to torment it?
In response to Jenova's last post:
So maybe, First there were humans..and vampires came from that evolution. Eventually the world would populate with vampires so the vampires must evolve into something that feeds off of vampires? Almost makes sense...am I missing anything?
Oo this is one of the most idiotic things that i have ever heard..
I cannot believe my eyes. What blasphemy is this?
I am absolutely horrified in the fact that some of you have swallowed this BS.
If you believed everything that some dodgy git decided to write then you would belive that there is a game called quidditch that witches play while flying their broomsticks....FFS people, why can nothing about this except a rather damning review of the book be found on the internet?
I am disgusted.
If it were possible to "MAKE" a spirit then it still would not be possible to make a vampyr, they are physical beings, not a mass of coporeal energies.
I think someone has been watching too much casper to be honest.
LMAO
Menefercious well thats called having an opinion, just as much as you have yours.
Science has proven it impossible,but I do believe that if we put our minds to it we can make anything
In response to One whom has jumped down our throats to a lil suspension of non-belief...
of course we can't "make" anything.
I mean come'on. Everything has always exsisted as it does now, nothing has ever been created, everything always a 'happy lil accident'.
yup yup! No synthetics, not ever...especially not things like plastic, nor neural networks...man has never made hybrid plants.. Those things you find in the grocery store- nope not real.
Nope...we certainly can't make anything
We don't touch genetics
we couldn't possibly make a vampire.
well they say if you belive in something engough that it becomes real to you so i guess it is possible
Ok I have to be a smart alec here, full moon people sends me loony.
To make a vampire....
One pair of shiny white fangs...
one black bat type cape...
Pale white skin....
Shiny red eyes....
Seductive nature....
and last but not least,
Desire for blood!
Ok wack it all into a blender and blend until well stirred.. not shaken...
Back in the oven on 200 degrees for 30mins or until springs back from touch.
And walla........... a new vampire... ok maybe just one big mess but welll ok I can't make a vampire... might consider working on a ghost instead all I need is a sheet with holes in it...*leaves*
lol Lady Winter, that was adorable.
I don't reccomend trying to make a vampire that way..cause if you pulled it off, it'd be very messy and they'd be very angry.
a ghost is a spirit. a vampire has a shape, and is solid, and has had a life before being sired. they are the undead for a reaon.
you cant make a vamp like that.
you need a person, and a real vamp to make another one.
traditionally, vamps are not solid - only hollywood vamps and victorian melodrama vamps are solid. a spirit entity needs energy, so though one cannot create a tuxedo clad, blood sucking bela lugosi through conjuration, one could create a spirit that steals life force to continue its existence. we are surrounded by spirit forms that have no history, no memory, no self identity - just waiting for someone to give them a template on which to build. eventually, they achieve sentience, but until we implant our ideas in them, they are just a blank tape.
I really dont belive that...And what logical reason would someone want to make a real vampire for the human race would be gone within probably 10 years.....
no, by any means can you just make a vampire whatsoever. especially in the way that "phillip" was created. vampires are born; they are not anyone's brainchild.
it just goes to show you how extrordinairy the mind can be(mind over metter) and with the mind anything is possible...but ghost's and vampires are two complete opposites i feel.
I shall remember that Tol lol As for making vamps well I always figured they were born that way, yes I am propbably wrong, but thanks for the thread I am learning from it. :)
we are down to that tired old arguement of definitions again. what is a vampire? dictionary says a blood sucking ghost. some are more specific, and go into undead spirits that feed off the life-force of the living etc. there are hundreds - maybe thousands of people on this site who claim to be vampires. not a single one of them is a ghost or undead spirit. anyone who claims otherwise - i challenge you to travel down the internet cable, reach through the screen, and grab me by the throat.
a few claim they need to drink blood to survive, and will die without it, and there are others who say the whole blood thing is just a victorian / hollywood myth.
you can call yourself what you like - if you regularly drink human blood and sleep during the day, who's to say you cant call yourself a vampire. i used to be an archaeologist, so i guess i can call myself a scientist.
but if you can create a spirit, then wouldn't that spirit require some form of energy to sustain itself? and what is a spirit? it's an idea of a person.
as for the claim that you cannot make something that isnt real - well only last night i made an omelette. omelettes arent natural, and it did not exist until i created it. a recipe is just an idea until someone puts things together. have you ever heard of CGI? ever heard of Art? we make things that are not real into something that is real - thats what humans do. robots were not real until we made them real. we live in a world full of things that a hundred years ago were just dreams in the mind of fantacists. at the risk of sounding a little bit blasphemous - we are gods now.
you can't create a vampire unless you're one... Vampires are not ghosts... we are living, real, beings...
You can only make a vampire the good old fashioned way in my eyes, the same way "humans" do :)
LOL, HellaciousRose - I was going to say that you can obviously make a vampire since I'm here. You just don't do it knowingly.
Or one could say a series of events occurs that awakens a person to a way of life they were previously unaware of, and naturally did prior.
I see a divide in what we call a vampire, I was after the ghost evil specter type.
Not the lovable living humans
I think that that give more credence to the theory that it is us that are manifesting these events, that infact there is no such thing as a ghost. We know so little about our brains and how they work and what they are capable of, who knows we could be able to manifest events and even people.
the big question is, are they just creating an effect, or have they created a sentient spirit - a phantom AI?
I would have to agree ghosts have no physical body, as vampires are flesh.
exatly vampires exist as a tangable "thing", Ghosts dont
though I can't post what I really would love to post this:
In belief you have the power to make things appear out of the most minute things... and since your description of the ghost is evidence of this effect than an answer to you question... if you believe that one can make an vampyre out of a belief that one is a vampyre than you are correct, but then for those who believe they are nothing but a human than they are correct as well...
Either way... it is a double edged sword... and pointless to ask
Aren't the lost souls they created really just energy partials floating around that they were able to pull together? It's like the saying "If you believe it then it will be true." It seems until we truly believe in something it doesn't exist. I believe vampires are born or people evolve into them over time...
THANK YOU!!!!! some one hear knows what there talking about
I feel this runs along with cloning.... if they made a ghost...then we should be able to make a vamp....
can we make a vampire of course but only by yes birth and being bitten
i don't believe that a vampire can be created out of thin air. Vampires are made of flesh and blood and energy. While ghosts are made out of only energy. Energy flows around us all the time, so there is material available to create a ghost. However, there is not flesh and blood laying around. That being said, it may be possible to clone a vampire but it would have to be from an existing vampire. Vampires are born.
i cant belive this is still a thread.... Vampires cannot be created.
can a Person be created NO olny though birth for people and the same for vampires
mankind has this fication of screwing around with mother nature, we have to invent, reinvent or create things so it looks like we are the creaters
I cant remember the name of the post... But there was a post on here about DNA and vampirism... That is there Stuff Called Vampire DNA.. If this is the case maybe screwing around with someone DNA and creating one that way maybe... But like everyone else I agree you can not make something from nothing... Without the materials you can not just go poof and BAMB a vampire is created