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Do you vampires have a hierarchy? How is it broken down? What is the basis for your political structure if any?

Well I know there are covens around the world with a simular type of organization we have here ...

Depends on what type of group you belong to. Some have leaders called Elders ,some do not have leaders per say.And it is viewed as a democracy type of coven.
There are so many variations of covens, houses, forums, etc.I think it all depends on what the members are wanting to have as a governing body or how power is to be deligated.
Most I am assoicated with the leaders are called Elders.And this comes from being active in the community whether it be online or out in the real world for several years.

id like to speak on behalf of my clan, my house and how the interworkings used to be set up...

Assamites were of the most revered politicians of the vampire brotherhood

the way we've been set up is much like the states there is a high council which contained a head and 4-8 other members depending on what was being discussed then it was broken down into smaller councils that each saw over a house, the house then was broken up into something like a senate, house leader, 2 officials under him up to 8 advisors under them, then your house members who in times of trouble were made up of mainly skilled fighters some were aspiring politicians,

At certain points in history these house members were considered some of the most deadly "underworld" assassins, NO ONE dared mess with an assamite, for the reprecussions were unimaginable... ive heard stories of turned brothers attacking in broad daylight sacrificing themselves to get the job done and then discintegrating without a trace, Nothing but dust in the wind... so honestly i do not know much of the other clans and how they organize themselves but im sure each one is unique

bloodofAlucard,

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but are you not referring to the fictional group which was a product of the White Wolf Role Playing fantasy game?

If so, then while I find your ideas very informative, I am suspect as to their actual validity and foundation in reality.

actually i am from a clan that has been followed widely whether you believe it or not that is your opinion but the truth behind is so shocking you would not believe if you follow your history, you will find there was a similar clan, not by the same name but assamite is the one we chose when it was founded i do believe i am being taken lightly and you think that i jest but i assure you i do not

bloodofAlucard,

Then I look forward to your educating me as to the nature of your clan.

Might you be prepared to provide some additional insight, other than that which you've given so far, which clearly has failed to convince me?

certainly i do not mind sharing or as you say educating my bretheren, first let me say i mean no offence but i feel as though you are not taking me seriously so if we may get by that and start off on a better note,

Greetings to you and anyone who wishes to read this, i feel that maybe i should start with some history we were founded about 10 years back as a tribute to an old clan, we took it upon ourselves to research everything we could about their methods and ways, we found on a trust that we would uphold their values, and not break trust i feel that i should continue in saying i think we may do things a little differently then most, it is more of a brotherhood and sisterhood as we welcomed a young lady into our family not even a year ago, i think next i shall educate on some of our interworkings, we have council but once a months time to build structure and intertwine what has been going on with the different houses in different areas, though it seems not organized as some houses ive seen i feel that our clan is very tight and close that if something happens to one of us it affects us all...im not sure what else you want from me so maybe some feedback would be great till then,

and how do your highly revered and feared leaders feel about you going public with their closely guarded secrets?

I believe that there has to be some form of heirachy. The Elders, the oldest beings would probably be the strongest, and the newest would be the weakest. But as earlier mentioned, many things are unspoken, or kept secret. I kind of like to follow the Anne Rice organization of the who business myself.

I beleive all society have some politics regardless of the place they are or the poeple are regrouping together, it has to have some kind of politics and rules, way of working and relations towards the world outside and also inside being its own society. Otherwise it will be only chaos

Some of the Vampyres were involved in an elabourate political structure called the Sanguinarium, which formed in NYC in the late 90s and have houses there and LA. They also have an online presence. Within the Sanguinarium is StrigoiVii, a religious Vampyre order. These are rather secretive about their inner court activities.
Other wise most of the Vampyres are not involved in any but on line organizations. I presume this is to avoid the daylight killings and dangers of clan warfare as described above. Vampires of the VtM, gotta love them.

If their are true vampire around, i would not think their are vampire leaders because individual vampires would be to interested in their own survival to care about rules...

vampires by nature have a natural order be it online or in the real world...most groups are set up in the same way a wolf pack would be set up and each rank that each individual carries leads to certian responsibilites..without order there would only be chaos and that would end with the destruction of a organized and highly detaild system.these groups help eachother and help strengthen each individual in areas thet they would normally lack in. on the internet there are webrings of such groups and organizations that have meetings monthly just as a witches coven would.there are also underground clubs where uniqe individuals can gain access to and become affiliated with such a group but these are not usually talked about in the open.

A vampires hierarchy? If you mean a government that runs all vampires no. I Belong to the Typhonus Tribe which does have a hierarchy and their are vampire organizations that have one, but no organization has rule over all vampires. Their was at a time many rather large groups of vampire separated only by country and every so often their leader would meet and discuss laws etc.

Politics for Vampires......I can't begin to tell the thoughts that spring to mind lol

However, Most are content with their own partner/doner/family......power strugles and games do not generally interest them.

if possible I would like to hear or read more on anyone having connections in a type of coven or house .. If allowed

Posting in response to some of the earlier threads...

I suspect there is some sort of connection to the opening of secrets a la 'The Da Vinci Code' going on here.

Fiction is so fun, don't you think? It can be based on something totally real and then err...EMBELLISHED!

This is the way it goes with my covin

1. there are 5 princes (like a high council)
that decide together what the covin does, and a prince can have more than 50 generals at one time if there were enough people that he/she turned.

2. The vampire generals, who are the "personal slaves" of which ever prince that turned him/her, but passed a test and is elegable for becoming a prince. he can also challenge the prince at a test of physical strength to take the throne.

3. the seers, are the religious people of the covin who do not want to be in contest for the throne but, at the price of making somthing worth while for the covin e.g. ( i make low cost medicine for my covin using my knowlage of the earth)

4. The brother hood, are people who have been with the covin for a while and know what they are going to do e.g. (becoming a general or a seer) and are currently in training to do so.

5. the richards, are regular members of the covin, takes part in events regularly but, not there enough to take any real advantage of anything.

6. pup's, are newly turned covin members who are going through the month-long initiation to the covin. they are also pretty much every ones bitch untill the majority of the covin or all 5 princes agrees he is fit to be in the covin. initiation can range any where from grabbing a cola for somone, to (goddess forbid you join during Yule) Walking across a bed of hot coals to keep your feet warm.


Any questions?

i thought that every one here was a vampire and would know about this?

Well I would say not everyone.. and many are not in a form of society.. Plus each society is run differently .. I find it interesting on how each is run in there own ways..

I am not in an house ot coven.. well other than here and that is different as my coven here can not really dictate what I do.

As for the houses and covens.. well the people I know that are in them.. seem to enjoy the companionship and yes they have a rnaking system of differeing kinds. And for some they are wonderful.

That being said. I have never been part of one nor will I ever be. I am a vampire and I do not need a council to tell me what I may speak of or not speak of. I have a brain and can make these decisions on my own. Yes I know safety of the community and all that. But I also do not hold with most of the reasons for keeping certian things secret. No I do not mean we need to shout it to everyone. But almost all my friends and people I deal with know what I am and no one has every tried to harm me because of it.. and considering I live in the middle of the bible belt ( we still arrest and convict people for cheating on their spouses here) I find that amazing.

Again this is just my take. And I will say a recent friend has mad me see that houses are not the evil conformist things I thought they were. I used to put them about the same level as cults.. but I have been shown they do serve a very real purpose for many people and a positive one.

well to answer that is hard but we stick together as a family and work as one unless there is a problem between to covnerns then they need to work it out if we can not settle it down before it gets bad

yeah, it's just like how things are run around on this site *smiles*

Well,from my experience,I was awakened and tutored on a great many things for several months ,and then he just dissapeared.He is a Lord,and I am sure he had a great many things to do,but to just go off like that really sucks.Personally,I feel something has happened and I cannot shake the feeling that I am supposed to help,but I really just dont know.
But he was always speaking of manners and laws of the Vampire and such.

Every group eventually forms some sort of hierarchy, it is the nature of a group. There are those solitary individuals who remain apart from the group though and do not fit into a position. Each group will come up with the form or hierarchy that suits them.

As for the Assamite, in all my years of research I have only come across that clan in White Wolf. Do you have specific books that the information can be found in. As a historian I enjoy proof in historical texts.

Though I do not belong to a coven/house society, I would imagine that group dynamics would lend itself to a leader of the pack. However, I am wary to believe in a formal global vampire hierarchy.

i believe anna rice had it pretty much down. the elders stay to themselves only getting involved when all else fails.

ok so you would have to say that each group or coven or house has its own rules and therefore its own politics right?

I have to say, I know nothing about vampire politics. This thread is fascinating me! I have read every post. Thank you all for sharing your information with me.

The hierarchy thing has always bothered me. I belong to no groups- but I do talk to others involved in them and have read about their rules and reasons for it.

A couple years ago I made friends with a 'vampire'. We just became internet buddies and joked around a lot- even talked on the phone several times- and he explained our friendship as a quick, tight bond.

I'd always considered his way a being a little laughable- although claiming such seriousness even here on his VR profile, he told me he always wore fangs, pure black contact lenses and other costume in his daily life outside of work- ALWAYS. What's the need for the Halloween costume everyday? People spout from the rooftops their plight of breaking the misconceptions of 'real vampires', yet some can't seem to represent themselves in a manner that will allow any other view...

Well, after a while of hearing this word from the man, 'underlings'- as he explained his students to be... I questioned him about it. Made them sound a little degraded and him a feeling of empowerment as he drew them 'beneath his cape'. I just merely made a statement that it sounded silly and degrading- and he immediately dumped me as a friend FOREVER.

That was a long time ago- and I have since realized he has issues in general... but this system of ranking sounds scary and even a joke to me.

'Solitary' is a good word. They say one is the lonliest number that you'll ever 'do'... well at least Three Dog Night says it. I say one is safer.

From someone with a bit of a background in both sociology and esoteric societies in general... It could be explained as a feudal monarchy crossed with a high school popularity contest. (yes, a bit cynical, but you know it's true) I'll leave the explanation of the particulars to the others who have already given their wisdom...

I belong to a clan and a coven. I know that this is something that goes on. Look at all the clubs, organizations, Legions, that or BIG named and are formed just as we form our groups. Yes this is an actual thing, I know, I live it every day of my life. If I didn't have it, I'd probly be in a room full of padded walls.

I would like to know where would one check out some of these Covens.. I know there are many in New York. Chicago, and L.A. but what og the other smaller cites acrossthe US.. and worldwide.. Do they have a simular makeup in Europe as well .. I think there societies would be alot older and more established

Stabb

You are questioning the "foundations in reality" of the responses to this thread?

Would this be similar to seeking intelligence in the Central Intelligence Agency?

On catching up on things written here, it seems as in all things there are extremes.

The vampires I know would not wish to join clans, wear garb, fangs or get involved in politics of that ilk.

However wether we agree or not, in the end it must be each to their own.

do all covens have the same house rules?

I think that asking if all covens have the same house rules would be like asking if it is the same house rules for everyone's family when you go home for Thanksgiving dinner. Every coven is a little different or they would not have chosen to be a separate group, but that's just my opinion.

I have heard stories from a friend, but from what I observe, both from intuitions and experiences with others in life not just online, it is a power struggle. Who has the information the other wants. Its almost capitilstic communism, in that power will be shared to those of the group, but the knoweledge of how to gain that power must be exchanged for something, even if it as simple as a room and board for information, and specialized use of the currents. Its quite interesting, but as for mass political structure, I look forward to see, if I can learn more from getting to know the covens and houses that have their membership join groups like this to see what becomes of future members.

Until we meet.

Some do not even have leaders at all, and have grown accustomed to living life unruled.

The only way i think vampires would have a hierarchy is if they are in a group or coven of other vampires, otherwise vampires i think are on their own...

Along this line of discussion...

Do you find that vampire society online is different from the actual Courts and Houses and such that exist in the real world?

Speaking as one who has no connection with any of the houses.

No idea from first hand experience, however from those I have spoken with. It works much like a coven does in real life. A bunch of back biting. Power struggles, and No one really doing much of anything productive.

More like a research coven of seekers, when you get past the phase of seeker, there isn't really anything a house will do for you.

From my point of view, Yes and No. I personally have never been in a position with a group that had a hierchy or anything.(never been in a group)

Because, not every vampire has come together with something that we could just call ourselves having a hierchy.

Sure there are groups and covens, with they're set of rules and etc. But I guess thats them.

I'm all by myself, lols. Honestly, It would be very nice to be able to talk to another vampire (whether sang or psi) about problems and being able to just talk about it. I don't mean VR. A little group minus the rules. *sigh*

The way that I have seen the few I have been around they are pretty well run like VR is. I am not speaking for all because I have not seen all of them.

Loe the phishes have appeared, to consult vampires about their lives, and openly the vampires are discussing it with open arms. Though somethings are forbidden less you are one of the awakened...Every nation has a heirarchy, ever species has a leader, some just choose not to mention them. Eh, I may be wrong.

Say what you feel, if you feel it needs to be said. Just stating a point.

With regards
Soulshroude

Well... since each vampire comes from different experiences and backgrounds, then it is hard to define a political view in common among people who are so different overall.

The only time you find hierarchy is amongst the people that are roleplaying, there are communities where some people are members of whas called houses and a few that have gotten the title of "elder" however most of their members are just wannabes and blatant fakes and a lot of real vamps dont bother joining houses for that reason.

definately a few blatant rpgers here not going to name the biggest one of them all though, right Arawn?

Yes i'd like to know the differences between real world houses and covens and these here/ online.

I just want more info on the ASSamites.
Fiction or not, whatever, it was the beginning of a good debate!

It seems to be widely accepted that a vampire answers to the one that turned it in all the reading I have done.

even the vampire have to have some form of order so it has the same kind of goven system. all vampire have to follow the rule to make it in this world