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I have been wondering about the wiccan idea of a 3 fold law on magick you send out. I was wondering your thoughts on this, as I have been told that this law or rule is just a wiccan idea.

Is it just a theory that has be instilled into wicca, to stop them from sending out harmful magicks?

Wiccan is more of a religion and has much more included in it than just spell work. But is it relevant to someone like me who has done spell work in the past and is not affiliated with wicca at all?

I would love to hear any thoughts or ideas on this.

To me it is a way to remember the "cause and effect" your spells and magic can have on others…even on your self. Other way I have seen it express is "what we reap, we will sow".

Ramifications of your will…or your powers…of your desires need to be taken into account no matter what religion or beliefs you have.

Then there is the whole Karma issue. :)

it is far more than just an idea it is karma and many secular cultures believe in this law some believe in the 10 fold law as to the 3 fold i believe it just depends on each individuals personal beliefs.there are conciquinces good and bad for every action and for every action there is a reaction.

There is karma behind everything and I am a firm believer in it. YOu do something bad to someone something bad will happen to you, do something good and something good happens to you

more or less it is just a warning because whatever you send out without a good explination then you will be punished 3 fold

ive been a solitary witch for close to sixteen years...the basic principle is this: whatever spell you cast out you must be very precise in what you are wanting the spell to do..the words must be exact...karma does have a way of biting you in the butt and the three fold rule or law is a reminder of what you sow so shall you reap...as expressed eairler....and i have heard of the ten fold rule or law as well...personally either one should remind you of what can happen if the spell goes the wrong way.

You should always be careful and precise in casting your spells. With all magic actually. What goes around, comes around.

I think the three fold law is there to remind us that things have a way of coming back around to you, and most of the time three times stronger than what you originally did. I don't feel like it applies only to the magick aspect of Wicca though. I believe it applies in day to day life as well.

I always believed in "what comes around, goes around" and other aspects of karma. As a Wiccan now, I follow the rule of three.

All causes have their effect. The effect is based on how you deal with the situation that caused it and how you weild your hand within said cause, Further more, the effect that causes backlash if you will can be slowed and stoped by the pendulum swing according to the law of rhythm. If you balance out your work, then you have nothing to fear of return. If you live your life in a one sided manner, then the paradox will be reconciled and you will be put into a place at the center, a way the cosmos uses karma to keep the scales of a life balanced. Do both, because nature is both. Nature abides not by three fold or ten fold, Nature is nature, and it must balance. It balances by the laws of rhythm, which is kept in check by the law of cause and effect, as well as the laws of correspondence. But how it balances if you do not seek balance is where the questions should be directed.

From anything, health, mental stability, loved ones, finances, and so on. What you do isn't going to be returned in what manner it is sent out. Nature will balance by bringing one of the areas of your life that is out of balance back into balance so that you do not need to repeat such a working, because you are different from the petty witch who caused someone to die because they looked at you funny. You can be the pissed off witch who kills off that bloodline because of them interfering and by their actions you are out a loved one, or your lover walks away from you and goes with them...but it has nothing to do with morality, it is a simple equation of balance. So as a result, you might lose something like your favorite earing, beyond loosing your loved one. Or perhaps you lose a job. But like all things, a better job will come around, and a better lover will also be coming...you just have to open yourself to it.

I believe in the 3 fold law, and it mainly means if you send out a bad spell it will come back to you 3 times as bad, like if you send out a spell making a person lose his job you may lose your house or somthing 3 times more important to you, and its the same with sending out a good spell...

Its a matter of if you believe it, then you are bound to it. Enjoy your three fold torture.

i believe the 3 fold law was set in place because of the way karma works.....

It's like if you put something bad out it's going to come back to you.... kinda like the paybacks are a bitch thing.

I find the problem with this debate is it is clumped together with karma and so forth to give it ground.
If you perform magic n it goes wrong that’s Karma or bad luck or 3 fold, they are all different and not the same.
Note some people are going nuts with 10 fold or more lol

Ok if you look at the original people who made wicca 50 years ago not one of them taught this 3 fold law, not one of them …. .
3 fold came out of a students book who made it up or didn’t listen very well.
This has been used as a form of control since, power over people never stops.
Now if you believe in Karma then please call it that.
Personally I call 3 fold law bluff

I am Wicca and I feel any one whom sends out a bad spell to harm or cause harm toward some one will come back 3 fold in full force due to the fact no one should put any kind of harm on someone. It is just BAD Karma any way you look at it just how I believe...

i don’t mean to offend, I just say it as I understand it……

To me it is a way to remember the "cause and effect" your spells and magic can have on others…even on your self. Other way I have seen it express is "what we reap, we will sow".

Ramifications of your will…or your powers…of your desires need to be taken into account no matter what religion or beliefs you have.

Then there is the whole Karma issue. :)

Yeh Karma is Karma white is white black is black. Threefold law is not Karma

lol
ah well life must go on

The rule of three fold is to remind you that whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times.

The 3 fold lore was created in the recent years of witchcraft and in my opinion (and that of my family who have practiced the craft for generations) it was put in palce to warn younger withces against casting bad spells toward others or they would suffer 3 times that back. I cast both good and bad/evil spells and none have come back to me x3 therefore disproving (again in my opinion) the 3 fold lore.

i do however believe that there is cause and effect if you do something bad then something bad will happen to you and vice versa but not in the x3 context just kharma.

I have heard this from other friends and they all believe in this. They believe that if you do evil magic on someone, it can strike back 3fold.

I am not Wiccan, and I believe this one as well. I believe that if you give bad karma, you get bad karma back.

I don't know about the 3 fold law, but I definatly believe in karma. I've seen it work, and I'm humbled.

Yes Queen lilith
Wise beyond your years, I also do not fear any x 3 comebacks.
I find Karma interesting … as it is a debt for what you have done and pay back can be in this life time or the next.
So if one was smart one would steal an identity and let the Karma build on that soul …. Ahh the delights of chaos magic

Thank you lavisbre your first post was what i was looking for, all the answers are great, and i understand the Karma thing, but i dont believe in that. i believe in myself

I once thought the same thing. That the three fold lore was quite literally one of those unwritten laws that all witches/magick users must adhere to. However, in my experience I have felt the need to challenge my previous assumptions.

The reason for this is that the three fold lore (wiccan version circa 1929) states that if you do evil it will come back to you times 3. I cannot understand how the forces of magick, which are both cruel and kind at the same time, could possibly be ruled over by siuch a strict rule that completely negates everything that magick stands for.
According to the three fold lore (druidic version circa 1940) the three fold lore states that all energies given out will come back to you times 3. This completely contradicts the wiccan version. Seeing how both wicca and driudism are pagan beliefs, i cannot see how one would completely contradict the other.

Wicca is the worship of the mother earth and the moon whereas druidism is the worship of the earth father and the sun. These two quite specific pagan beliefs infact compliment eachother in harmony.

No, I believe that the three fold lore was written by some witches and/or druids so that, when teaching their students, they could instill a certain respect for the arts of magick.

I myself perform chaos magick and astral magick as my main workings and have never felt the presence of anything as a result of the three fold lore.

I will say, however, that i do both good and evil, working with darkness and light, to keep myself balanced as everything in nature is very finely balanced and everything in magick is also very finely balanced.

Mener

Thought creates reality. So if you ponder ill will, it is bound to manifest on you eventually.

But as for the Threefol Law...more like guidelines. *heh* I figure that if someone has already earned wrath and retribution 3 times over--it's on!

Hi Menerfecious
Nice pic by the way ;-)
Personally I think it would be cool if three fold law worked …… id do lots of good and be really 3 times happier lol

LMAO so if you give 1 pound to charity, they will give you 3 pounds back???

Cool, i have almost 400 pounds saved up, should i donate it to oxfam so that i can get a nice pay out of 1,200 pounds?

menerfecious, That is the very best answer to anything I believe I have ever read in the forums. I commend you sir. What you have said has very much changed some of the aspects of my beliefs.

it's called karma.
Everything you do that would be considered "bad" will come back three fold.
so I wouldn't consider it a law or rule exactly.

theres something other than wicca? lol

If you have ever heard of the phrase, "you reap what you sow" then you have heard of the idea of cause and effect, for everything that we do in life, we get back to us, either by doing positive things or negative, it all comes back to you.

yes it is a good thing to practice casue karma will catch up to you in the long run.

I Know Of As Well What You Send Out Is What You Get Back

GoodGirl17

Indeed there are a great many things other than wicca.

The two main pagan practises are wiccan and druidism.

However, after those there are so many more. Satanic Magicks, Necromancy, Pyromancy, Aeromancy, Geomancy, Alchemy, Chaoss Magick, Astral Magick, Celestial Magick, High Magick, Enochian Magick, Psionics (although not magick, generally classed as a form of magickal ability), shamanism, voodoo and many many more.

M

i believe in karma also and what goes around comes around but..i dont much about wicca, i am learning satanic rituals and such..does the rules apply to that as well? not talking karma because i do know better..be careful what you wish for, but does that include even if you know you are right?

the three fold law cant just be concidered a wiccan idea. It can be used in everything everyone does in every day life if you think about it. The kindess or rudeness a person shows to another and what comes back to you for doing such.

agrees with UA but does it apply to satanic ways also?

I think it would most definetly include santanic ways. but thats my opinion.

With everything, rules are necessary to somewhat control what is going on, to protect the majority of people either performing a task or ritual, or also to protect those who are possibly effected and affected by it.

thank You UA and Jens..like my Mentor has told me to be careful for what i wished for..same as any other thing in life..learned that the hard way and said possibly the way that it would work is to be really truly sure i am in the right..still freaks me out though..thanks Ya'll

The threefold law is a code of ethics with teeth that many pagans follow. It is a method of karmic balance for good and evil acts. Karmic excesses are believed to follow the person into their next incarnation.
More on the threefold law

I believe completely in the 3 fold law. When I was still looking into religions, I placed a negative hex on a co-worker and I seriously paid for the negative things that I caused to occur in his life. Since then, I have not used magick in any negative manner.

I believe that the three fold law does exist. Wicca is an Earth based religion God/ Goddess trees flowers plants stones all have energy in them anything non living does to.
In Wicca the three fold law I feel is a way to remember that if we wish harm upon someone whether it be through magick or everyday life and this does happen something equally or 10fold will happen to you same as if you wish good upon someone. It is all in the energies that you use. Here's a personal example. I was very young and decided to use a love spell now anyone who knows anything about Witchcraft knows that you can not force someone to desire them. I took a piece of this person's jewelry and in my mother's home(bad idea - she's a so called christian and very closed minded even though she has had her expierences of the paranormal and her mother was very much into the native american ways.) Anyways she inturrepted me in the middle of the spell and my ex's friend had the necklace for a few weeks which I did not know. 3 days later the 3 fold law hit me where I didn't want it to. Long story short I believe it.

well i believe in 3 fold also but isnt pagan nor wiccan..but knows karma strikes anyone.

that's the way i learned the 3 fold law. whatever you put in motion comes back to you three times worse.

I like the idea behind the three fold law, but I think that it is more a warning for karmic retribution more then anything else.

this is hard to explain. I myself am very into the occult area and starting to get stronger into wicca. I don't believe that it will for sure come back to you but it's more like Karma. But if harming others with your spell work do it with good reason behind it because if it does come back to you are you going to be waiting to know that it's possible. Just watch yourself and try not harming others unless it's a last resort. I also feel that you can play with others minds and it not be harming them it all depends on the situation(s)

i think that for the majority..the laws in some way do help such individuals stay away from doing negative or thew darker magick in wicca i always feel that the wicca followers tend to be the new age happy go lucky hippy kind myself

I think that everything we do in our lives, Karma will always be there. You do something bad to someone something bad will happen to you, but if you do something good to someone something good will happen to you.
I am a Practising Witch and i think the three fold law is there to remind us that things have a way of coming back round and sometimes things can bite you on the butt if you don't make your intention precise. But i belive what ever goes around comes around =]

i do not think you have to be wiccan to follow this rule...i think most people believe this rule no matter what you practice...

it is all based on karma....and if you believe that what goes around comes around then most likely believe that things will come back in 3 too...

Wicca is a pagan earth based religion that worthshipps nature. Although spells can be accessed, because of our mother's influence, despite acceptance of the Wiccan faith. A better understanding maybe be obtained by Wicca or other Earth based religions.

but does this only go for wicca? isnt wicca but knows the three fold law and even if it is a good spell or not why would it come back to harm You?

Like i said i believe in the 3 fold law but i do not practise it because if you know what your doing i think you can get away with what you are doing without it comming back at you...

well I do not feel it matters if it is 3 or 10 fold that comes back at you. To break the law of doing harm to someone to me is going to come back and bite you in the butt bottom line in my opinion so I choose not to use spells for anything harmful...

i ststed above that it does come back to you ... but i forgot to mention i know this from exsperience a very very bad exsperioence what i wished for didnt happen to who and what i wished for but it did happen to someone very very special to me and i no longer have her... do watch for what you wish for

This has always seemed to me more of a wiccan version or interpretation of basic karma. The three fold bit of this belief most likely just being a way of saying that what you get back will be worse than what you gave out. It would be a struggle for me to believe that there was some actual mathmatical truth to an actual 3 times the value here. Like there were spiritual accountants insuring that a person always got the required 3 fold return on their 'investment'.

On Karma in general, I personally feel that such things are self fulfilled. When we do good, we feel good and subconsciously we allow ourselves to enjoy more or be treated to something good. If we have guilt, we likely set ourselves up for what our subconscious feels in our just punishment for our self perceived crimes. I can't imagine that real spiritual justice is always out there since there are so very many people that commit very evil or selfish acts and feel no remorse and apparently die happy and rich never having had to get back what they gave out. My belief - if you don't feel guilty - you won't set yourself up for karma. It's the only way I can explain the tilted scales of reality.

In Wicca the threefold law is the law of return. The concept of karma in witchcraft is to do good and good will be returned, either three times or three times the intensity. But do evil, and that too will be returned threefold. These returns will be within the current lifetime. There is no "putting off" rewards or punishments. With this belief there is no inducement for a witch to do evil. It is, therefore, a corollary of the Wiccan Rede: " An it harm none, do what thou wilt." By consciously harming none as you live your life, you will not invoke any negative return upon yourself. However the majority of witches believe in the threefold law.

My boyfriend and I believe in this law. I have been studying witchcraft for about a year and half. Unlike my boyfriend who has been praticing and studying the craft for 15 plus years will also tell you the same thing. But to each their own you can believe what you want about it.

Personally I think it is true... but then again I have had the experience to go along with it.... The funny thing is mine isn't due to magik. This flows the same direction as Karma.... 3 Fold is a part of Karma, so magik is not the only thing that can be effected by it....

my self i belive it is like krama, for the universie to work we have to have a blance of good and evil, some evil is ok but some good is ok i think that is how they came to installing the 3 fold law as a awy to blance

To me the 3 Fold Law of Wicca is not a yes or no question. It is a integral part of Wiccan religion for me, it reminds me that there are always consequences to my actions and if I do someone harm am I willing to accept those consequences. Plus you have to keep the scales of Karma in balance. Oi!

I believe the 3 fold rule was just written to keep others in line. I cannot believe in Karma. I believe only in chaos and randomness.

And I think there should be a better definition for right and wrong. What exactly is a bad act or spell. By whose rules should we judge such things.

like i mentioned before i do think it is alot more than just a theory and that the laws do have some meaning behind them as well as good reasoning too...it is a code of ethics if you will that i feel is needed especially for the newcomers.

definitely all about karma. as far back as i can remember, i always heard that whatever you do will come back to you x 10 or the "do unto others" golden rule, then wicca's threefold rule, so its not just a wiccan thing...its whatever you believe or were taught when growing up :)

It still goes back to the "Golden Rule"
Do unto others as you would have done unto you

It's all in what a person believes, I happen to be an Eclectic Wiccan and I believe in the 3 fold law..... because i think that there is a cause and effext factor because everything you send out comes back to thee. But this is my belief for myself. I feel that its like throwing a stone in the water,all the ripples go out. because everything you do causes something else to change or happen ,

another thing to if you cast a spell or bind somone thats done something wrong i do not think that it goes back onto you if it is justified.

if it is justified i dont think it does either

ahh the Three Fold Law
Well I look at it like this What you do to others you do to Yourself, so If you harm others you harm yourself if You do good for other you do good for yourself but no matter what you do the payback is always bigger

I don't hold stock in the concept of the threefold law. The idea that my actions will come back to me threefold is completely wrong. I have had some very horrible things happen in my life, none of which have I ever done anything 1/3 as bad. Notice that the word "believe" is in a majority of the responses. If you believe in something strongly enough, then it is bound to happen.

I feel that the 3 fold law is important to everyday life and a wonderful rule to live by. Its that law that stops me from cursing my ex.

the law is basically karma. so it's mostly if you believe in karma, then you should believe in that too.lol.

matters not your belief ..karma strikes all

The law of three is mis-understood by those that do not understand magick. Although it may be understood by cause and effect it is in fact more. The law of three is dealing with the total being of the person doing the magick. Mind, body and spirit. The energy that you utilize during ritual is magnified by these three levels of being. The mind, body and spirit is directly affected by the experience - both during and after. It has nothing to do with Karma or that you will "get more" for doing a spell.

ive been a solitary witch for close to sixteen years...the basic principle is this: whatever spell you cast out you must be very precise in what you are wanting the spell to do..the words must be exact...karma does have a way of biting you in the butt and the three fold rule or law is a reminder of what you sow so shall you reap...as expressed eairler....and i have heard of the ten fold rule or law as well...personally either one should remind you of what can happen if the spell goes the wrong way.

well since Wicca is non original and STOLE all of it's belief structure from the celts I personally do not believe the wicker aspect of it. However, the rule of three is not just with harmful things it's actually a kharmatic law that says everything you send out come back to you 3 times as much my personal belief is that if you do not curse anyone and you just do your best and always good... you have no worries

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Thanks.