The Oracle at Delphi was in Greece and was one of the most famous, but that was not the only one in ancient times. There are still pilgrims to this day that visit the ancient oracle sites..what other oracles are known besides those in Greece and Italy?
This particular one spoke the answers as riddle to be translated, and even farmers asked about crops and other mundane questions.
Delphi was used by the Spartans 300 are the ones we know of and legends
Even without study or belief in ancient time mythos, we regularly I think tend to consult Oracles in our own ways...Just look at a deck of Tarot, excellent example of this.
Personally, my dreams involve Oracles most of the time. But to have them manifested in real time, this would be an extraordinary event. I am sure many followers of religion would deem it as an "act of god".
At least back in that day and age, open minded individuals walked the earth. Thus the overwhelming answers from the Gods. Not like todays society, always agrueing about nothing and killing off what they do not understand.
I went to Greece a few years ago and the (amazingly hot) tour guide talked about this particular Oracle, and she gave the same explanation, that of gases escaping through the chasm you mentioned and causing the "visions". When did science prove this wrong, and how did you find out about that?
My orical told me lol
Only joking, just watched it on history channel, thought it was a good topic.
They find no trace of said vapors or chemicals needed in the rocks or soil.
Hi Soulshroud
I use the thoth deck and im experimenting with a much older way of reading from it, im now understanding as above so below.
The medieval packs are hopelessly corrupt...or otherwise far from presenting the Ancient Truth of the Book in a coherent system or shape of lucid
beauty - Aleister Crowley (Book of Thoth)
Know that the philosopher has power over the stars, and not the stars over him - Paracelsus As long as you still experience the stars as something above the head you lack the eye of knowledge - Fredrick Nietzsche
...perhaps there is a pattern set up in the heavens for one who desires to see it, and having seen it, to find one in himself - Plato
...when the planets of the Solar System are named or symbolized...it must not be supposed that the planetary bodies themselves are referred to, except as types on a purely physical plane of the septenary nature of the psychic and spiritual worlds - Madame Helena Petrovna Blavatsky
It is an erroneous interpretation of astrology to opine that special forces emanate from the planets and the stars - R.A. Schwaller de Lubicz (Sacred Science)
Each card is, in a sense, a living being and its relation with its neighbors are what one might call diplomatic. It is for the student to build these living stones into his living temple - Aleister Crowley (The Book of Thoth)
Though I have an X that does have the ability to Oracle. When the mood hits the Oracle within her, she tends to sound rather apt. It is a strong presence when the Oracle decides to reveal herself. The whole atmosphere around her changes drastically.
This form of possession interests me, did she have words of wisdom or was it babble or a mix?
Interesting you felt it’s presence.
I thought oracle work needs the person to be alone…. for the wisdom to enter.
Do you think men can oracle?
Trust me, it was far from babble. But yes, she was around me and a couple of others, but she trusted me to bring her out on her own.
I have been known to Oracle, since the X told me I summoned a couple of times. But the side effect being, I do not remember any of it. Like I was day dreaming and snapped out of it.
Iv yet to see a real oracle at work im envious sir.
I once witnessed at a international convention a guy in leather be spanked to a point he felt an oracle or god enter him, we did laugh hard and im slightly traumatized to say the least. Lol
Well, perhaps one day if we ever meet say maybe at the New Orleans meet-up, you may have that chance.
Unfortunatly whatever went up there, was no god...(Bursts out with laughter.)
This article explains it best.......
http://geology.about.com/cs/odds_and_ends/a/aa081901a.htm
No
If Oracles wanted us to now how they communicated with the other side Im sure they would tell us
When they grim reaper comes to collect your soul when you die is it because of ethanol or is it the super natural just happening as it always does
I saw the same program on The History Channel and was very interested.. my personal opinion is that the Oracles did have some special ability and were not simply "intoxicated"
The Oracles at Delphi are no different than our true psychics today. Now instead of people worshipping them, as in the roman times, they open a shop and offer palm readings for $5.
I mnay culture and cults there is aklways some sort of figure who is a reference or an oracle to others. Some sort of autority or link, or mid person to talk for and to talk to.
Like what Boneyardvixen said - many psychics that channel are what oracles were in ancient times.
you will find they did have shops to read your palm in those days.... this oricals stuff was the real thing and a religion.
The oracles listen to questions and the popular chat the base for any "reading"Add spy info and the leading oracle can thread together a great telling.Still even if it was only Hocus Pocus it was good hocus pocus.Just like the temples and their gadgets.
Honestly dabbler… hocus pocus… could you be more vague.
Were not talking about stone age man or idiots … they spoke with the gods and a religion was such. Your assumptions are not based on more than your limited understanding mate lol
That is not a fixed statement by any means.Only a fragment of a possibility...one way that some may have thought to explain something that is mystical.
So what is your explanation then?
Personally they were the same as us mentally and im not easily convinced by charlatans, why do you think they would?
I work backwards sometimes from what things are not to what they could be.Sometimes things turn out to be a collection of possibilities.I could see how some would even warp the tellings of the Oracles to create the likely hood of their projected outcome.If the oracle spoke in criptic metaphor then the interpitation could be key to the relavancy of the person hearing it.Which to me is phenomenal in its own catagory.
*smiles* very religious and very much warriors.
They were trained from seven to be killers and also did nothing with out consulting the Oracles of Apollo … a fine class of witch.
It’s ok to have ideas but better to base them on factual evidence I think
Legends surounding the Oracle are so tghtly intertwined with history that getting an acurate picture is impossible
I don't think there are that many stories based on the oracles.. just mentions of people visiting them here and there. I remember reading Greek Mythology and there only being mentions of them, no stories based specifically around them.
I am skeptical, of course, about oracles. I think most future prediction is logic and logic alone.
You can do a lot of things using logic. You can know what someone will do next, what they will say next, what will most likely happen that day.
Some people may just be more in tune to it and be able to see patterns, behaviors, and paths that are most likely to be followed.
No boneyardvixen your right in your assumptions.
History has been wrote with an agenda, it is logic that points out the buried truths now we speak with all sides involved, cross referencing and ignoring the lies of history being taught in school. Going back to the original documents and places finding rosette stones and cylinders form places where everything was wrote in clay or tombs not fouled or etched of by religious nuts hiding a past as it conflicted with the ideal feed to them histories is not what we believe it to be. Lol conspiracy freak you may cry… facts are facts jack and not assumptions based on limited info. lol
As an example Alexandra the great in a great battle said a disk in the sky appeared and blew down a wall with a great light, the other side also said they defensive wall was blown down by a disk in the sky with a light destroyed the wall and they came in and the battle lost… historians ignored this as disk in the sky was not gods work. Lol
It’s there to read in the original documents.
This is why now professors are re reading documents and saying hey guys how could you expect to hide that puppy lol
The History Channel has done a lot of good shows on how mechanical devices which where far ahead of their time, may and most likely where used in temples, shires and by oracles to produce many god or mystical like powers.
Sense oracles tend to answer in riddles and it then must be interpreted by the audience. This implies that the individual is actually answering their own question but is allowed to place any responsibility or consequence, guilt or other emotional outcome on the oracle and off themselves. After all it was the oracle that “told them” what needed to be done.
i use a modern-day oracle...the Tarot Deck. and sometime it, too, speaks in riddles and clarity isn't fully gained until the event in question happens.
so if oracles did not tell the future persee but the current and fragmented presence and deducted the likely out come of agenda and would the "favor payed"create a more favored reply.
the delphic oracle was always acurate but its answears where cunning and prone to misenterpretation.the 300 movie was fun but it would make the spartans angry if they saw it.there was a low budget but more accurate movie in the 50s.i do recommend reading plutarchs history and sayings of the spartans and heroditus histories.also xenephons the persian expedition.there is books out there by people who where there and met spartans and fought with or against them and had actually been to delphi.and you can read their own words.rather than some silly modern propaganda movie.
i'd hate to have to be responsible to pay a price to get my future read, that's why my tarot deck has been a lovely accessory of mine for almost 14 years. i paid one small price for purchase and it's never let me down since.
The Oracle at Delphi was indeed the most popular one, and that in the temple of the god Apollo. In 300 the oracle was at the top of a mountain in Sparta.
I think the Oracles (there were more than one) at Delphi were women or girls that had some sort of psychic ability, and when given the hallucinogenic (sp?) drugs, they heard things, and so the priests/priestesses had to interpret what the Oracles were going on about. After that did they tell whoever asked questions what the answers were.
I personally would not go and see an Oracle of any kind, as I would not trust the people that had to interpret what the Oracle was saying.
Does your one god ever talk to people ?
If it did that would be an oracle.
Hey Kontradiction what pack do you have?
I love Tarot … iv got thoth of cause lol
I believe the tarot is like a thermometer of your psychic at that moment in time
I think the oracles were a pretty legitimate cross between a fortune teller and priestess. Ancient Greek society was heavily male-centered stratified, and any time a woman rose to any kind of prominence (i.e. the "Pythia"), it was super-special, and almost always tied to a religious experience (like the Dionysian cults, etc). Also, these people believed that the Gods and Goddesses were always hovering, and completely invested in their lives. So, they would go to someone like the oracles to interpret messages from mundane events.
Although not many people use the term "oracle" anymore, I'd agree with just about everyone who posted, in that there are modern oracles all around us.
I believe they were sniffing on something a little stronger than ethanol.
most greek societys where much like arab ones and women where almost in purda.athens was very like that.sparta was very different and women evan had military training.some island societys where matriarchal like lesbos.
lesbos lol
spartan women were tough as rocks and caould deal with a spartan fighter anyday.
the records show this fact, even england we had women leaders who even drove back the romans...
ps sorry about the spice girls lol
I went to Delphi and the tour guide that I have said that there were gases leaking in to the cave thingy that they walked in, and that the oracles where hillusinating ( i know my spelling is bad.)
How is an answer accurate but misleading and open to interpretation? That's a pretty flimsy concept and doesn't seem to prove anything other than people believed the oracles were right, even if they weren't and would take their words and twist them so their predictions seemed correct.
You can predict almost anything if you know how to word it right, and it can be correct no matter what the actual outcome is because you leave it so open to interpretation.
Hi Hitori
if you read the first post this is based on you will find the old excuse for such a religiouse site was they must of been on gas or drugs.... how elss can you explain other gods. lol
As far as the Oracles at Delphi, I could not say, I would love to believe that they were inspired, and spoken to by the gods, however I was not there. I know its possible to be spoken to by the gods, So it figures it was possible.
On the modern note-I believe there are modern day oracles. I have seen channeling, and have had people know things that were simply not possible to know. I also use the tarot as a trusted guide. I myself have also "known" things that I had to say to someone. I called that being inspired.
Greece sits at the confluence of three tectonic plates. The shifting of these plates continually stretches and uplifts the area, which is riddled with faults.
Several years ago, Greek researchers found a fault running east to west beneath the oracle's temple. De Boer and his colleagues discovered a second fault, which runs north to south. "Those two faults do cross each other, and therefore interact with each other, below the site," said De Boer.
Interactions of major faults make rock more permeable and create passages through which ground water and gases can travel and rise. From 70 to 100 million years ago, the limestone bedrock underlying the oracle's site lay below sea level, enriched with hydrocarbon deposits , so yes I think the Gases had something to do with the predictions given and not I only talk to the God and Goddess
Something in the ancient Greek temple of Delphi made its priestess high enough to believe she could predict the future. Scientists just can’t agree on what.
In the temple, the resident female oracle, called a Pythia, was a role filled by a succession of women over the years, usually priestesses of high birth who lived a solitary life in the temple.
A simple cocktail of carbon dioxide mixed with methane could have induced the psychic trances that the Pythia used to channel the gods and dish out their advice, according to the latest, Italian-led study.
“It is possible that the toxicity problems [were] due just to a deficit of oxygen in the Temple room, where air ventilation was weak and the gas release from the soil was strong,” said study leader Giuseppe Etiope of the National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology in Rome.
Etiope’s research refutes the widely-reported 2001 findings of geologist Jelle Z. de Boer, who blamed ethylene escaping from an intersection of faults beneath the temple [image] as the gaseous culprit.
Cryptic ramblings
The Oracle of Delphi was considered one of the most sacred sites in all of ancient Greece from about 1400 BC to 400 AD. It is located 112 miles from Athens. People from all walks of life made pilgrimages there to seek advice from the God Apollo, which was relayed to them by the half-baked Pythia. Her often cryptic ramblings were highly regarded and affected everything from the outcome of wars to when farmers planted their crops.
The Pythia entered her trance by inhaling sweet-smelling noxious fumes coming from deep fissures underneath the temple, according to the ancient historian Plutarch.
A lack of evidence led modern archaeologists to dismiss Plutarch’s observations until traces of ethylene were found in the temple’s stone walls by de Boer, a geologist at Wesleyan University in Connecticut. Ethylene stimulates the central nervous system, causing hallucinations, and emits a sweet odor.
Etiope’s new findings, published in a recent edition of the journal Geology, challenge the popular ethylene theory.
“We excluded ethylene as a candidate because it is impossible to have in nature ethylene concentrations so high to induce odour and neurotoxic effects,” Etiope told LiveScience. “This environment is prone to methane formation...the only plausible explanation is that in the past there was a bigger methane emission (with a small amount of carbon dioxide),” he said. Methane was found in spring waters around the site by Etiope and his team.
If the Pythias were drugged by a combination of carbon dioxide and methane, that still does not explain the sweet smell Plutarch described, countered de Boer.
“Oxygen deprivation would not cause a sweet smell, but a nasty odor of the Pythia's stomach contents on the floor,” de Boer said.
Pythias Lived Long and Prospered
Though it has yet to be confirmed by tests, Etiope believes that the sweet odor could have come from traces of benzene, another toxic hydrocarbon found in the area.
It’s an unlikely hypothesis, said de Boer.
“Benzene is a dangerous substance and after a number of sessions the Pythias would have become sick and possibly died,” de Boer said. “Frequent deaths of Pythias have not been reported by any of the classical writers. On the contrary, they seem to have lived a long and healthy life.”
this was taken from live science ... will add it on next post lol
so as we see the truth is still not known.... cant people ecept it was the gods of old
hey lavisbre I have only one question.
If this oracle is so reknown and was so popular why is our evidence so shot off the roof as to how she done the things she done?
I mean the science can't work because that is just a guess and maybe a cover up as they might not even know.
Im not sure mate lol
Maybe some religion came along burning everything that didn’t make it look as powerful….???? Lol
There have been many studies that show a good number of the Oracle temples (including Delphi) leaked certian hallucinogenic gases.
The truly interesting thing is that most of the prophecies were accurate.
Hey Xzavier
You have noted that the oracles were right quite a lot… so much they built a temple lol
Why even a religion around it…………
As for the hallucinogenic gas… this was given as an excuse by science not bothering to study more, were finding more and more now there is no alternative agenda in the results from these real independent professors.
Delphi is still not proven hallucinogenic gas ….
I pulled this from the link I posted.
Plutarch, who ran the temple for many years, wrote that the gases of the oracular chamber smelled sweet, like flowers. He also studied the history of the temple and made some shrewd observations. By his time, late in the first century CE, the oracle was not considered as powerful as in old times and the gases were not often present in the chamber. He surmised that the vapors came from a source deep in the Earth that was slowly losing its potency, and he thought that the great earthquake of 373 BCE had closed off some of the passages leading up to the surface.
Modern scientists have tended to doubt Plutarch's explanation, but it looks like their reasoning was wrong. The first serious excavations at Delphi, in the early 1900s, found no fissures and detected no gases, but that proved nothing. Fissures can be very small, and they can be sealed over the centuries by mineral deposits. And it was already known that the gases had disappeared. The mistake was in thinking about where the gases had came from—until recently, only hot vapors from volcanic sources were considered.
An article in the August 2001 Geology (here's the abstract) describes some geologic factors that make the Delphic temple a likely site for underground gases. Not only is there a major fault passing east-west directly under the temple, but another newly described fault cuts the site going north-south. Therefore the rock beneath the temple is full of cracks, able to pass groundwater and gases. The temple building sits upon several present and former springs.
Also, the Delphi region is underlain by a large body of limestone. Limestone tends to become highly porous as groundwater dissolves its minerals—this is why caves are found almost exclusively in that rock type. And this is not just any limestone, but one containing bitumen, organic remains that give rise to underground oil and natural gas.
The research team, led by Jelle Z. de Boer of Wesleyan University, examined pieces of travertine—a limestone stalactite deposited by an ancient spring—to see what gases they might have trapped. They also looked for hydrocarbon gases in the modern spring water. The light gases methane and ethane were detected in measurable amounts.
But the telltale gas de Boer's team found was ethylene. They also found ethylene at other Greek "gas springs" and natural tar pits. Ethylene is an important industrial gas today, so we know a lot about it. First, it's an effective anesthetic that produces euphoria and excites the nervous system. Second, it has a sweet smell.
As a result, we have a persuasive explanation for how the Delphic Oracle worked physically. De Boer concludes, "Our research has confirmed the validity of the ancient sources in virtually every detail, suggesting their testimony on geology is of more value than has recently been held to be the case."
One matter that's still uncertain, in my judgment, is the source of heat to vaporize these gases and warm the springs. De Boer suggests, without citing a source, that the activity along faults can produce enough heat to account for the effects. It's true that fault movements create heat (enough to actually melt rock in some cases), but I think that we also have to consider the energy released by underground microorganisms as they eat petroleum. This is a new area of research, and I don't have sources to cite either, but we are finding life deeper and deeper in the Earth, and I expect to be amazed at what we learn in the next few years. There's plenty of mystery left in this planet.
I think, too, that having a scientific explanation doesn't lessen my wonder at what the Delphic Oracle meant to the ancients. It puts me in awe of how strong the institution was and how well it worked. And I marvel too at the power science has to bring those long-dead people, whose culture roots our Western civilization, less distant from us.
well I guess we have to agree not to agree… mind you that sounds good.
So for arguments sake some cocktail of gas makes you have visions, can you explain why you think they were so correct most of the time?
I would have to agree with soulshroud. In our own ways we all consult different things for the answers we are seeking. This was their way and now we have just moderised it so to speak.
I think it might have just been a group of people who may have or may not have had a certain special gift.
But no, I wouldn't consult an oracle because I'd see it as just being a mouth to a god, which I'd rather never hear if it were up to me.
You see my problem is many leaders asked the oracles if they should go to war and so forth.
I don’t think for one second they were gullible or stupid and with no TV the propaganda machine was not at work.
You don’t just go to some woman sniffing gas and ask should I risk losing my country lol
I believe there is more to this
I think it was the combination of ability and toxic gases.
I suggest a book titled "DumbStruck" A cultural History Of Ventriloquism - by Steven Connor
Thanks dabbler … love to read recommended books…… mind you at 110 dollars it better be good lol
Do you think it’s pseudo-intellectual over thinking of the highest order to suggest Ventriloquism's effect on CULTURE?!
You see one of my main thought forms when trying to analyze and understand history is to try n understand and think the way they did.
Forget Hollywood images and films…. Even documentaries are bias, still your educated im sure you understand my angle. The only amusing thing about a ventriloquist is how well he cant move his mouth and the doll can.
Two chapters are explaining this thread … I must read.
A voice from a cave, a vision, a burning bush im sure it goes on.
Danger is lumping it all in one box and saying a form of ventriloquism did it, there for everything is a delusion of weak minds and thousands have died been born and more due to some prank of sorts or ability to throw your voice?
My history teacher last semester went and unfortunately he didn't get any messages from the gods. He didn't even get high. What a shame.
yes it did stop a while ago.... it was belived gas made it happen but that is being proven wrong now i do belive
It was constructed on top of a spring to contact the Sun god apollo. It was also used by a high preistess for telling people's fortune by scrining into water, and people would come to her for there future, and she would give them a riddle. They had to solve the riddle to interpret their fortune. She also made predictions for future events, and most times she was right.
I know someone who is an oracle of sorts. She works as a professional traveling psychic. She comes around my area twice and year. She is never wrong as far as what she tells me.
Seems to be pretty well documented, these oracle sites of Greece.
And just because the gases are no longer flowing, doesnt mean they didnt necessarily at one time. (and science did prove some were flowing, according to Pandorasbx's article. Didnt prove a heat source, but they did find traces of ethylene.)
Btw...alot of different hallucingens have been used throughout the ages by shamanic cultures around the globe. If the Delphi oracles were getting high and making vague predictions, they'd not be much different than South American peyote users.)
As for myself...I have a few tarot decks, and a couple of hand-made sets of runes. (I just made them recently, I havent worked with them much yet.) On the tarot decks, the one I work with the most is the Arte Nouvou deck (I've small hands, it's the easiest to handle, not to mention being stunningly pretty.) Other favorites are The Witches Tarot, and The Londa Deck.
As for how they work...I think it's a matter of how perceptive the reader is more than anything else. I use it on a more perceptive/intuitive basis, looking at what stands out to me at the particular moment. As for accuracy....I dont tend to read for others much, but when I do, I dont ask them what their question was, and I dont ask if it made any sense or was accurate. So I have no idea lol.
king creusius went to the oracle of delphi and asked if hed win if he declared war on persia.the oracle replied that if he did a great empire would be destroyed.well one was but it was creusiuses own empire.so he could say it lied to him.he was the one who was famouse for being rich.
It just reminds me of our beleif in god today but back then it was oracles.. Higher beings that is all. Like i said in another post gossip breeds legends.
If I set up an oracle in a cave, and used ventiliquism as they did, it would be a road side attraction, yet if I researched people prior to them coming to the oracle, I could charge Much more then what a road side attraction would make, but I would also become very popular, and thus invite scrutiny.. the oracle was transferred to Apollo when he Projected his voice into the oracle.
Eben the Egyptions had Cat statues that appeared to whisper to worshippers, the source.. tubes that led to chambers under the shrines.
Bck when i was in school and heard about oracles and such i truly wanted to believe they existed today and i really started to believe in higher beings.. I was young and naive back then though.