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Past life Curiousity
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FallenmaidenAlice24
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20:09:54 Dec 11 2008
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I'm very curious it might kill me one day ^.^...any way does any one know how to find out more about their past life? I want to find out more about mine but I don't know how two start. Please tell how you discovered your own or advice on where to start. *curtsy*



Edit:moved to General Discussion since it fits there instead of the Mascara section. NG




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Artume
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06:25:53 Dec 12 2008
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In my point of view, as well as experiance on this particular subject...

The idea of the past life IE regression, dreams, experiances or whathaveyou, is pure speculation. Since the individual would be the only one aware of their past lives through vivid dreams, then any individual doing a past life reading would be a simple manipulation to entertain the individuals thought process concerning their past lives.

Unless of course the individual tries hypnosis for that past life regression scenerio. It does work on a minor scale.

But, theoretically there is really just the imagination playing tricks on the individual when any practitioner of "reading" past lives entertains this scenerio inparticular.

Truthfully, it may be only a guessing game when it comes to such a topic of conversation. Unless of course, the two individuals...IE the reader and the participant are well in due bounds of agreeance on the matter and all are satisfied.

In this case, the reading was in tune with what the individual was invisioning in the first place. Therefore any contradorty date would be discarded by the individual and back to stage one from there. Unfortunately this type of situation happens all the time.

I would recommend hypnosis above all tactics in finding out more about past life regression. Unless you know an experianced individual who has been accurate in the past.



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dabbler
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08:34:46 Dec 12 2008
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I asked myself what is attracted to past life practices, what behavior it appeals to, I think it is relative nostalgia, similar to our interest in Geneology, I would imagine a past life regressionalist would have honed such skills. Perhaps time, occupation career type survays, all inquirred during
A relaxed state.

We all get nostalgia, theme parks bank on it.

Some parellels to role play character creation can be found, I learned a skill
Of aligning character and player.. A study of time lines, matched up with
Occupation type.. Makes nostalgia more complete, read a book from that era.
Study the area you would be in.



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CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs
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10:40:22 Dec 12 2008
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Ok so this is a member asking for help. It's great that so many have opinions but can we try and give her some advice. If you do not believe in past lives then there is really no point in you posting here as it wont be in any way helping with the question at hand.



When it comes to past lives some people get them in ways of reoccurring dreams, others by having a past life regression completed, and some just experience dejavu. If you are truly interested you may try going for the regression process. That seems to be what works for many.



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mysticwinds
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13:34:37 Dec 12 2008
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Past Life Clues: Find Your Past Lives Without Hypnosis
by Hoppe Holloway, Karin Sue

This book may help you to begin. Wish you well on your journey.

The book gives you clues in your everday life that may help you to understand your past lives.



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Sinora
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14:20:13 Dec 12 2008
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Yes there are alot of books and suchlike out there, hopefully your local library will have something which helps you.

You could try while in a state of relaxation to ask the question, 'who was I before now' and see what comes to mind.

Good luck.



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Beastt17
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15:25:33 Dec 12 2008
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The first step in learning about anything is to make reasonably certain that it isn't mere superstition. One can't learn much about mermaids, while they can learn much about mermaid mythology. One can't learn much about gremlins but they can learn much about gremlin myth. So far no one seems to have presented any compelling objective evidence to suggest that the idea of past lives is any different.



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cadrewolf
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16:43:42 Dec 12 2008
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and there is a lot of good information in books out there to help you on the path to find out. dreams seem to trigger alot of these.

and it is up to you for beast said no proof given , yet no proof to dismay this either.

Check out a few books by Dr. Brian Weiss, he has some astonding research in past life regression therapy.



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dabbler
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21:46:05 Dec 12 2008
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So my question is, does past life regression not rely on nostalgia?

I have actually talked (off the record) with past life regressionalist.

Any exercise that stimulates identiy is helpful, if the person is not overly expectant.



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leoderloewe14
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22:06:59 Dec 12 2008
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First off, why is it important to you?
For most of the people that I have tried to help to regress, so they could "access" a past life, it turned out that that they were merely trying to "access" a suppressed memory of either child or adolescent abuse (some just physical abuse by a parent, other sexual abuse) from early in their life. By viewing it as an "alternative"/past life, they felt they could "deal with it" emotionally better.

Leo



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dabbler
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19:21:28 Dec 13 2008
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They have a set pitch, it was getting a few candid statements that counted.

Knowing that a good percentage of people that do past life seminars to learn to do them, are drop-outs from psyc. studies, that some short cut even the seminars, and courses, that the practice is not regulated as even some of those who practice wish it was.

The hypno theripist I talked to (on line) really wants better accounting for qualifications regulation, after getting fall-out clients from sloppy practices.

Those that go to enrich spirit, are usually suppresing emotional turmoil. Stuck-out as a noteable candid statement from Lyne.



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Beastt17
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22:19:09 Dec 13 2008
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Re: "and there is a lot of good information in books out there to help you on the path to find out. dreams seem to trigger alot of these."

One should also remember that there are many books with a lot of bad information and one doesn't need to have a malicious intent to produce bad information. It's not a bad thing to publish one's beliefs but there is nothing to stop anyone from publishing beliefs which, while sincere, are still false.

Dreams can trigger very real emotions, ideas, fears and have long been proclaimed to indicate all sorts of different things. A lot of people are very fond of the idea that dreams have some hidden significance. It is due to this fondness that these very same people tend to reject science when it explains what dreams are, how they're triggered and that there is no evidence consistent with any of the proclaimed special meanings.
---

Re: "and it is up to you for beast said no proof given , yet no proof to dismay this either."

Once again; "proof" is an unreasonable and ridiculous standard. At close examination it becomes obvious that there is no such thing. Do we have proof that the Earth isn't flat? Members of the "Flat-Earth Society" insist that the Earth is actually flat. So are all of the photographs, the endless orbits around the planet and the mechanisms which shape large cosmic bodies, proof? Apparently not. But the problem isn't the lack of conclusive evidence. The problem is simply that some people will reject anything they don't like, simply because they don't like it.

So in an attempt to remain credible and accurate I choose to avoid words like "proof" unless we're talking about math or alcohol. Those are the only two subjects for which the word "proof" really has any valid use. Instead, one should talk about evidence and more specifically, the different kinds of evidence. We can have "supporting evidence", "refuting evidence", "subjective evidence", "objective evidence", "conclusive evidence" and several other forms.

People never seem to tire of the claim that there isn't any counter-evidence for things which if false, couldn't possibly leave any evidence that they're false. The reality lies within the fact that there isn't any objective evidence to support the claims. Consider a few examples;

Do we have conclusive evidence that Leprechauns don't exist?
Does the lack of such conclusive evidence somehow make the existence of Leprechauns probable?

Do we have conclusive evidence that fairies don't exist?
Does the lack of such conclusive evidence somehow make the existence of fairies any more probable?

The truth is that in the vast majority of cases, if people don't believe they have something to gain by believing in the unevidenced, the complete lack of supporting evidence is seen as sufficient to determine the proclaimed entity or phenomenon to be false. Only when people stand to gain greatly from a proposed reality do they flock to the claim "you can't prove it doesn't/isn't".

It's not a point of any merit. Can you provide conclusive evidence that purple feathered rattlesnakes don't exist? Does your inability to provide any such evidence make it any more likely that they do exist?

Things leave evidence when they exist, not when they don't exist. When they don't exist the most likely indicator of their non-existence is the lack of evidence to suggest that they do exist. This is exactly what we use to determine that Leprechauns, mermaids, unicorns, gremlins, goblins, zombies, fairies, elves, Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, magic beanstalk-growing beans, purple feathered rattlesnakes, invisible bathtub monsters and an endless list of supposed entities don't actually exist. The vast majority of people have no problem with that and don't run around saying, "you can't 'prove' they don't, therefore, they might!"

It's only when people choose to subscribe to their emotional desires rather than to logic that they begin to attempt to utilize such suggestions in the hope of supporting what they WANT to believe. And that's really the key. People only dismiss the complete lack of supporting evidence when referencing something they very much want to believe. It's not a logical conclusion. It's an emotional one.

When it comes to proclaiming past lives, there are some highly coincidental and anecdotal reports. It might be interesting to know how many of these instances are easily explained away by parents prompting their children, people refining vague similarities into proclaimed "exact matches" and things which are simply common or very easily deduced. I strongly suspect that once the obviously exaggerated claims are removed, the remainder will likely be no stronger than the documented cases where ship-board crews used to report seeing mermaids. And mermaids, to the best of our ability to determine, simply do not exist.


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La6Muerte66
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23:09:42 Dec 13 2008
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You're wrong, Beastt. I have a purple feathered rattlesnake as my pet, and its name is Sophie.

lol.



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dabbler
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23:38:32 Dec 13 2008
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Though feather rattlesnakes are common, the Purple in the purple feather is a misnomer, had beast simple looked this up he would have understood the matter better.

The under belly is purple, the feathers are not. So he wasn't completely wrong morte.



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Sinora
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12:43:12 Dec 14 2008
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Actually when I started thinking about past lives etc I most certainly did not want to believe.

So for me anyway that was not a factor in what is now a truth for me.



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Beastt17
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16:38:18 Dec 14 2008
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Believing in a concept doesn't make it a truth anymore than disbelieving would make something untrue. Whether or not anything is true relies only upon its tendency to comply with reality. And what is a part of reality is a part for everyone, not just those who believe or disbelieve. We don't have our own individual realities. There is but one. And while there are anecdotal indications that perhaps some have knowledge of a former or alternate life which will cause many to leap to the conclusion that they have lead past lives, there is still no solid evidence to support such a conclusion.



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Sinora
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17:18:07 Dec 14 2008
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My truth fits my reality nicely.

Based on personal evidence which as I mentioned was not particularly welcome at the time.

As to there being only one reality, well I'm not sure I would agree with you on that.



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ladygoddessaries
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18:05:11 Dec 14 2008
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Personally do love this thread and the idea of tapping into one's past life. To see the trend that lies within it. Have never been able to master the ability to do past regression with myself, no matter how many books have read.

However did have the opportunity to have my past lives read by two different individuals on two seperate occasion. The main theme that seem to run within both readings is that in my past lives have been a bit of a martyr as would consistantly be attempting to teach others how to open their minds to possiblities only to be riduculed and in some cases stoned for it. Seems as though that trend still flows in this life.



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dabbler
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21:46:15 Dec 14 2008
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By interweaving obvious trait types, something a basic psy student would be able to do. A regressionalist can custom manufacture a prersona to appeal to the individual. Getting a degree in psyology is hard, getting a certification for doing past life regression is easy, so is past life regression an alternative to Psyco thearipy? Is it not sometimes the emotional, and not the spirit?



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Mau
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04:25:03 Dec 15 2008
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That as well has always been a curiousity of mine, I alwasy felt (which I may even be wrong) That the interests we have lead back into a different time.. Such as an example, My interest and passion has always been egypt, the myths, culture and so on.. I hope you find the answer you seek..



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Beastt17
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06:43:45 Dec 15 2008
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Re: "My truth fits my reality nicely."

When Galileo wrote Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems there were many who felt that his objective evidence conflicted with their own "personal evidence". Galileo could demonstrate his assertions through logic and evidence while those in disagreement could rely only upon what they believed to be "personal evidence".

Unfortunately for Galileo, he was vastly out-numbered by those who appealed to their proclaimed "personal evidence" and he was thusly charged with heresy, found guilty, his work banished, forced to publicly renounce his own findings and then placed under house-arrest for the remaining 9-years of his life.

The key point here is that despite the "personal evidence" so many claimed to have, it was the objective evidence which revealed reality. The same thing has happened in regard to evolution/creation, global-flood vs. the geologic column, volcano gods vs. vulcanology, earthquake gods vs. tectonics, evil-spirits vs. medical science, and a vast array of other examples. In fact, not once has anyone's "personal evidence" ever turned out to be right when it conflicts with objective evidence.

Objective evidence reveals reality. "Personal evidence" reveals only what one desires to believe. Just look at the vast array of world religions. Nearly every follower proclaims that they "know" their beliefs are right and the only thing any of them can offer is their "personal evidence". And yet clearly, no more than one can be right. All of the others must be wrong. Even within a single religion -- Christianity -- there are more than 38,000 officially recognized belief systems. And yet only one has any chance of being right. And if it is correct, then the remaining 37,999+ cannot be right, nor can the rest of the world's religions. That gives us a taste of the odds against "personal evidence" actually revealing any real truth.

So the question must be; did the pope and church fathers have their own truth and their own reality, or were they simply wrong? Did the sun actually orbit the Earth prior to 1632? Did it only orbit the Earth for the Pope's reality and for that of the church fathers? Or has the Earth orbited the sun since it formed some 4.6 billion years ago? We all share the same reality. If the Earth orbits the sun then it does so for everyone. People like to try to pick and choose their own realities, but nothing about their beliefs does anything to alter what is or isn't real.

Referencing one's own reality and own truth such as "my reality" and "my truth" have long been the rhetorical method for avoiding undesired truths. If one can demonstrate that what they claim is true, it's a simple enough thing to suggest that it may be true for them, but not for those who desire a different reality.

But the truth is that if a person actually has their own reality, they probably need special care. The Pope wasn't actually in such a situation. He just didn't care to admit that he was wrong. The same goes for the heads of the church. There is only one reality and only one truth. When one clings to "personal evidence" to the extent of claiming they have their own truth and their own reality, it's fairly clear that they simply find such an assertion to be preferable to facing truths they dislike.
---

Re: "Based on personal evidence which as I mentioned was not particularly welcome at the time."

Welcome or not; every single time people's "personal evidence" has conflicted with objective evidence, it is the objective evidence which has emerged as true.

Every...

Single...

...Time
---

Re: "As to there being only one reality, well I'm not sure I would agree with you on that."

You don't have to agree. Reality isn't reliant upon your agreement or disagreement. The whole of humanity could be wiped out in an instant by a sufficiently large asteroid and the complete eradication of human belief would do nothing to alter reality. Reality isn't reliant upon you nor is it reliant upon me. We are reliant upon reality, whether we face that reality or turn our backs to it.


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Sinora
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08:31:32 Dec 15 2008
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An interesting read Beastt17, it's just that I don't agree.

Oh, I've said that before.

Nevertheless, even as you believe your truths are worth repeating, so I do mine.

If you check out the archives you will find a few good threads on different realities, and what people think about them.



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Beastt17
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08:54:14 Dec 15 2008
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Re: "An interesting read Beastt17, it's just that I don't agree."

You don't agree with what, Sinora; that the Earth has always orbited the sun, that vulcanology has always been the cause behind volcanoes, that earthquakes are due to tectonics?

It's not really for anyone to agree or disagree. It's all fully documented, fully demonstrable and fully confirmed.

Do you disagree that objective evidence has always been the confirmed victor over "personal (subjective) evidence"? If so, then please present a single case where subjective assertion has conflicted with objective evidence and the subjective assertion was later confirmed to be correct. I've offered this challenge numerous times and no one has ever even made an attempt even to respond. And yet, I consistently see them return to the same failed and fully refuted assumptions as though it doesn't matter to them that they're siding on a zero sum-total assertion and hoping against a 100% consistency.

One can disagree that objective evidence has always consistently trumped subjective assertion (or "personal evidence" as some prefer to call it), but that only demonstrates a lack of desire to recognize their own failure. It does nothing to change the facts. It's an attempt to avoid the reality rather than respond to it.

One can disagree that the Earth has never been flooded but that doesn't change the fact that it hasn't. Disagreement with confirmed, logical, demonstrable, objective findings does nothing aside from weaken one's perception of reality. It does nothing to change that reality.


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Beastt17
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09:10:21 Dec 15 2008
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Re: "You know exactly what I don't agree with...."

If I knew exactly, I wouldn't have asked for clarification.

Re: "so stop trying to score points...trust me, nobody is counting."

It seems you're suggesting that if you were to answer, the "points" would fall in my favor. I wouldn't disagree. Evasion may be your safest refuge.


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Sinora
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It seems I may not have not made myself clear , so I will post this again.

If you check out the archives you will find a few good threads on different realities, and what people think about them



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Beastt17
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09:42:26 Dec 15 2008
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That's fine, Sinora. But to do so is a futile redundancy. I've already engaged several in their concepts of reality, including you, and see that the only argument presented is, "I disagree".

The Pope disagreed with Galileo. Galileo had the objective evidence and he was right; just as has been the case in EVERY instance where subjective assertion has come up against objective evidence.

To hold out hope that one might be the first example in all of man's recorded history to actually have their subjective assertions confirmed and objective evidence shown to be false is to both ignore the reality, and to suggest that objective evidence has a sentience, an agenda, and the ability to lie.



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Sinora
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10:38:31 Dec 15 2008
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No you are quite wrong, I have in the past said why I disagree.

Your fondess for Galileo may be an indication of one of your one past lives...food for thought.



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La6Muerte66
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Your fondess for Galileo may be an indication of one of your one past lives...food for thought.

I'm getting tired of people saying they were someone important or famous in their past lives. Google gave me 2 links when I typed specifically "Galileo in a past life".

http://64.233.169.132/search?q=cache:wwQJ80KIHYcJ:www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200504/tt01607.html+%22galileo+in+a+past+life%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

and

http://64.233.169.132/search?q=cache:UrGmdBTUdlcJ:groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.seduction.fast/browse_thread/thread/8e78b92c240be404/ef8ab50d6d64e4ab+%22galileo+in+a+past+life%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us



Not to mention the hordes of people who claim they were Cleopatra or Julius Caesar in a past life. If past lives did exist, why is no one willing to speculate that they were no one of any significance whatsoever? I've never heard anyone say "I think I was a bum, living on a street corner in my past life." It's ALWAYS royalty, spiritual leaders, or someone closely related to them. I wonder why that is...?


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La6Muerte66
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13:01:31 Dec 15 2008
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Then if that was true....I would be the owner of a closed mind.....so I don't agree with that one either lol

I didn't say that; you did. And you're free to disagree, but opinions mean absolutely nothing in academia. You can choose to claim that the Earth is 6000 years old, was created in 6 days by GOD, and that evolution is a conspiracy by the evil mainstream "atheist" scientists, but that doesn't make it any more true than me claiming there's a blue teapot in orbit around the sun.


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Sinora
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14:15:26 Dec 15 2008
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Re : Not to mention the hordes of people who claim they were Cleopatra or Julius Caesar in a past life. If past lives did exist, why is no one willing to speculate that they were no one of any significance whatsoever? I've never heard anyone say "I think I was a bum, living on a street corner in my past life." It's ALWAYS royalty, spiritual leaders, or someone closely related to them. I wonder why that is...?


The word ALWAYS is hardly the case I would think.

For the record.....I was not famous by any means in the past life I recall.



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Beastt17
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17:04:46 Dec 15 2008
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I have no fondness for Galileo. I know little to nothing about the man's character and personality traits. The example; on the other hand, proves quite appropriate for the discussion. He had objective evidence and yet he was humiliated and imprisoned by those who felt that their "personal evidence" (which really means "subjective opinion"), should be weighed more heavily than objective evidence.

We've had almost 400-years to learn from that lesson and some of us have. Others have simply refused to learn from that. Nor have they learned from the treatment of Giordano Bruno, or any of the other thousands of examples where objective evidence has been confirmed to be correct while subjective opinion has been wrong. The "personal evidence" referred to is nothing more than the very same kind of coincidence which leads people to adopting any other superstition. See a black cat, then trip on the next curb and break a toe and proclaim it as a "personal experience" when you tie the two together and you've not discovered or confirmed anything. It's just superstition.

People have a long, sick and twisted history of accepting random coincidence as a supposed pattern of great meaning. It has lead to tossing children into volcanoes, cutting the beating heart from a person's chest, the torturous killing of countless animals, wars, persecution, slavery, theft and hordes of other heinous misdeeds.

Unfortunately, we still find people clinging to such unsupportable ideas and even flinging insults toward those who would point out to them that never has there ever been a single case where such "personal evidence" ever proved to be correct without the benefit of supporting objective evidence. And the vast bulk of the objective evidence runs against this claim rather than in support of it.

We have people subscribing to hundreds (more probably, "thousands"), of different versions of supposed spirituality, many which contain vast differences. And in each case, we find some supposed punishment for not subscribing to these beliefs and a reward for subscribing to them, neither of which are to materialize until after one dies. And quite likely not by coincidence, what people are prompted to accept is usually beneficial to those insisting that they do so. And yet with all of those who claim to contact spirits, recall past lives, cross over into spirituality and then back again, there is still not one shred of solid objective evidence by which to do other than rationally conclude that these beliefs are other than the many (almost countless), failed myths which came before them.

If a billion people drive their cars off a 1,000-foot cliff, confident in the idea that they will come to no harm and yet every single one of them dies, I would not consider it inappropriate to refer to those still intentionally driving themselves over the edge in stubborn insistence that this time will be different, as being highly closed-minded, highly immersed in emotionalism and somewhat dangerous to others.

Some simply refuse to learn anything for which they hold a subjective dislike and will even evade questions when the answers they would have to supply leaves the failure of their ideas clearly exposed.



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cadrewolf
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17:26:51 Dec 15 2008
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wee beast some valued points in your post, yet we must realize that all are different in all walks of life, and like you stated the thousands spent on religious writings, true yet we ponder to say that millions are spent on scientific explorations that sometimes are not used or debunked cases.

Society rationalize each in their own mind. some believe in past life experiences dreams that seem so real that it almost depicts past life expeirence. I have been looking for a published book I had on the scientific structure ans analises of this study and the cases that could not be debunked by scientist, yet my library si somewhat a miss as of latley. so i shall post it when found.

we must rationalize others beliefs or willingness to say that " I hope there was something before and after death and life" To each is their own. and words that i give or you will not change this belief.



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Sinora
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17:31:36 Dec 15 2008
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Lessons ?

History teaches us many lessons, some of which we chose to learn and some we don't.

Those lessons do not only help in the material sense, but also in the spiritual.

I quite understand you refute God, but please do not think that your examples prove that those who love God are not learning from the same lessons as those who do not.



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Beastt17
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19:12:20 Dec 15 2008
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One cannot love that with which they do not have contact. One can love the idea of Leprechauns and even think them real. But to state that one loves a Leprechaun is a statement clearly devoid of any credibility. It's being in love with an idea, not an entity.

All through man's history there have been assertions that things exist for which there is no supporting objective evidence. Never have any of these propositions found fruition -- not one. That should be found to be highly significant, even to the most hard-headed and closed-minded of individuals. The same type of assertions played out thousands of times and yet, the one thing that never fails is that those propositions which lack supporting objective evidence are never found to be true.

As for loving and learning; history also shows a very bloody, hatred-filled history for those who proclaim love of unevidenced entities. I would suggest that it's better to look to actual examples than to subscribe to beliefs which have consistently failed and lead to hatred and murder rather than love and learning.



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Beastt17
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19:29:24 Dec 15 2008
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Re: "Those lessons do not only help in the material sense, but also in the spiritual."

This statement alone illustrates the futility of such assertions. How can one make any credible assertion that they are helped in the "spiritual" sense when they're still unable to even demonstrate that the spiritual is other than an imagined concept?

I can claim that my god can beat up your god, but until at least one of us can produce objective evidence that either god exists, the entire statement is pointless and without merit. One can proclaim that the tooth fairy has stronger magic than the fairy "Tinkerbell" of the "Peter Pan" story but neither can be shown to exist or even credibly supported via objective evidence. So the entire statement rests upon the gullibility of those making the claim.

Such statements, while seemingly productive to those who subscribe to that which has failed at every attempt for as long as any such assertions have been suggested, are in reality, of no greater value than to claim that going without food helps us to develop our metaphysical stomachs. If you can't provide objective evidence to support the concept of metaphysical stomachs, it's entirely inappropriate and futile to make any suggestions about what might affect them.

The same applies to "spirituality". Some of the most hateful and closed-minded people I know are also some of the most devoutly tied to faith-based beliefs. And with one or two very notable exceptions, if you want to really see them seething with anger and hatred, simply suggest that they provide some kind of supporting objective evidence for their devout beliefs. A few centuries ago, such a suggestion would likely find you dying by their hand.


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dabbler
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20:36:40 Dec 15 2008
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Can anyone refute the natural draw people have to Nostalgia?

I think this has a strong place in the popularity of past life regression.

Wanting not only to study history, but to relate? The feeling of being out of your era..

all the catchy phrases past life advertisments use.

Can any believers of past life regression post a summary of what is to gain from a past life regression, in my searching I find an alluding to after you have your regression we will intrprete the results.

The difference between dreaming, and self interpretation, does that require books? As opposed to visiting a regressionalist?



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leoderloewe14
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20:56:38 Dec 15 2008
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In my most prominent remembrances, I was a crippled orphan during the times of Charles Dickens and a Roman legionaire of no great fame. So much for want of being Ceasar, Marie Antoinete or Cleopatra. Those are pure "fantasy"...

Leo



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21:09:10 Dec 15 2008
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i asked someone here on the website
she told my past life by looking at my hand
and she was right.. i went to other people and sights
just look around and you will find it
sometimes things happen in this life that happened in your past life and it is like deja vu when you experience it
i have ...



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Sinora
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08:16:20 Dec 16 2008
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Re : The difference between dreaming, and self interpretation, does that require books? As opposed to visiting a regressionalist?

Dabbler I think the main thing is exploration of self here.

Those who have the money may visit a regressionalist, I never have so I can't comment on that.

I'm all for learning as much as I can without spending cash .....libraries etc.



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La6Muerte66
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14:39:11 Dec 16 2008
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I've just stumbled upon an interesting phenomenon, and it may have a definite tie-in with past-life memories. This happens to me a lot, but I only just now considered it in this context.

This morning, I distinctly remembered something my mother was telling me about wines and something about 1995 being a good year. The actual conversation is irrelevant and probably untrue anyway, but what IS important is that the conversation never happened. Oftentimes, I'll remember things that I dreamed, even weeks or more after the dream actually occurred. By this time, the dream is so hazy that only specific pictures or words are left, and they present themselves as memories indistinguishable from things that actually happened. This has also generated a feeling of deja vu in certain situations. Does this mean that I had a prophetic dream and foresaw being in a certain situation before it happened? Probably not. There's an interesting article I found that explains the physical mechanisms behind deja vu:

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/deja-vu-0607.html

But what's interesting and important about this (I think,) is that some memories we have, that can be aroused during past-life regressions, among other states of mind (drugs have brought out these memories in me at times), can very well be dreams that we've had in the past, that we previously didn't remember, and are indistinguishable from memories of real events.

I'd appreciate any input on this, as I haven't really had much time to look into it. I just thought it was interesting to bring up, as it ties in rather well to past-life memories and deja vu.



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leoderloewe14
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00:25:14 Dec 17 2008
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You may not think so, but I'd be more inclined to support such a thought. When I've had such dreams, at least in my case, that's what happened.

Leo



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La6Muerte66
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00:33:12 Dec 17 2008
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My problem with that is (and I really wish I could still find that article) that when our short-term memories, like dreams, are transferred to our long-term memory, only certain elements are "stored", while the rest of the details are largely replaced subconsciously. The article I'm still looking for explained this in amazing detail. Because long-term memories are often incomplete, elements that are familiar in our current environment bring up feelings of deja vu, and because the memory of the dream (in this case) is incomplete, we feel like the entire thing happened before.



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ImageMaker
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04:48:55 Dec 17 2008
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Well as with so many of the threads on this site it seems someone feels the need to wage a one man war against all things he does not believe in.

However there is some interesting material on the subject out there. In Mary Roach's book, Spook, I believe she talks about the possibility of perceived past life experiences being a type of genetic memory. A concept I find fascinating. However it seems there isn't really any kind of concrete way to "discover" your past lives, though there are a lot of theories and suggestions out there.

I say try them all until you get it right and let us know how it turns out.



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dabbler
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05:41:29 Dec 17 2008
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There is our search for geneology as well.

By proxy past life mimics genology, only more abstract.

It appears from the sessions I watch to plot and deveop role development
That is just my observation on some 8 sessions with like three different regressionalist.

Self paced exploreation, maybe a few theatric experiece, changing era, and occupation, you can click a role/ persona. Take notes from classic novels
Nostalgia if not a past life experience is an emotion often neglected.



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Beastt17
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09:45:53 Dec 17 2008
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Re: "Well as with so many of the threads on this site it seems someone feels the need to wage a one man war against all things he does not believe in."

Isn't it interesting how if one person strongly supports an assertion they're being open-minded and if another does the same thing but with an opposing view they're "wage a one-man war"? It's all a matter of perspective. Where one is in agreement with another who is making strong assertions, they feel they're doing nothing wrong. But when one is in disagreement with one who is making strong, referenced and supported assertions, they perceive them to be "waging a war".

It's extremely important that people not only recognize when they're applying their perspectives with a bias, but also how perspective works and affects the decisions they make, whom they choose to see in a positive light, whom they choose to dislike and how it affects their desire to remain unbiased in assessing any assertion.

And while most seem to hold some concept of perspective, most seem to miss the point that perspective is at the crux of a great many assertions of the paranormal. There is a vast assumption which most people apply to such claims and likely have no idea that they're doing so. Once this assumption is made and utilized as the launching point for all explanations to follow, every one of those explanations is automatically doomed to failure because it is based on a false belief.

The assumption of which I speak is that we can always trust our own perceptions to be flawless. This belief is from where we get phrases like "I saw it with my own two eyes" or "seeing is believing" or even "personal experience trumps mere scientific theory". All of those assertions are born from the belief that we can always trust our perceptions to be 100% accurate representations of reality. And yet, such a belief is quite easily demonstrated to be erroneous.

Examples have already been given but since many seem to have missed them or dismissed them without cause, it's likely appropriate to make the point once again. When we close our eyes we don't see an even blanket of complete darkness, even if we're in a completely dark room. We still see points of light and dark and often even moving images. This is perfectly normal so we all learn to dismiss it and not even think about it. But are those shapes real objects or are your visual perceptions lying to you?

If you spend 30-minutes in an area permeated by a loud roaring sound like the skydeck at an airport or in a wood-floored roller-skating rink, when you walk outside where it's quiet, you'll still hear the roaring. Is there really a roaring or are your aural perceptions lying to you?

The other day I was sitting in my living room and I heard a helicopter flying over. I didn't see it but I definitely heard it and I do know the sound of a helicopter when I hear one. The truly bizarre thing is that it wasn't outside. I could hear it as plain as I see the characters on my computer monitor and it wasn't outside. "Not possible", you say?

I was wearing headphones at the time and listening to a Pink Floyd album. Hopefully, some will see my point. Based on what my ears perceived, there was a real helicopter flying from my left side, across to my right and then off into the distance. Was there really a helicopter in my living room, or were my aural perceptions fooled into thinking there was a helicopter? This is simply an example were we have purposely created a situation with the intent of fooling our perceptions. If you'd like another, remember the characters on my monitor that I referenced earlier? Are they really there or is it just a trick played on my visual perceptions through extreme contrasts of light in a matrix of tiny squares?

Man has learned how human perception works and utilized this information to produce technologies to fool those perceptions. Yet when flaws in the mechanisms which provide us with perceptions arise, people want to insist that their perceptions were accurate and therefore, attempt to explain what they have perceived through assertions of the paranormal and supernatural. People have been doing this for tens of thousands of years. And in all of those tens of thousands of years, they have never once confirmed their assertions to be correct. In only the last 400-500 years of objective methodology, the vast majority of those assertions have been demonstrated to have been completely wrong.

Science has been developed to offer real answers with demonstrable factuality. But those who wish to continue to insist that their perceptions are at a level of pure infallibility, will reject the demonstrably correct assertions simply because they have developed a great fondness for their false conclusions which are all based on a demonstrably false assertion.

The evidence is all sitting right here in this thread. LeMuerte has given reference to advanced study concerning how the brain works and what is actually happening when we experience false memories. It's simply a false perception created by a flaw in how we remember situations, surroundings and experiences. When enough neural points from one experience coincide with those same neural points from another experience, the mind triggers the sensation of strong familiarity. It's not really that you've been there before, had the experience before, engaged in the conversation before or predicted the future. It's simply the false triggering of a sense of extreme familiarity, caused by a flaw in the brain's mechanism for sensing familiarity.

By the way, as I was sitting here there was an immense space craft, which first flew directly toward me, then, in an instant, was flying in another direction. I could tell it was huge based on my perspective and other objects in the region. So was the space craft real, or were my visual perceptions purposely fooled by the changing chroma and luminance signals "painted" across phosphor dots arranged in a tight grid pattern? Since I was looking at my television screen at the time, I'm going to have to go with the latter explanation, even though in order to accept that conclusion I must admit that my visual perceptions can be fooled. Those who always assume their perceptions are totally accurate representations of reality will simply have to try to figure out how a space ship of such gargantuan proportions managed to fly through my living room without causing any damage.

It's a false perception, people; nothing more.



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Beastt17
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09:56:18 Dec 17 2008
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Re: "Exactly how I feel, explore, have an adventure, find your own path."

One who searches earnestly and honestly for answers will find those answers. And indeed, such answers have been found. But he who searches only for what he hopes to find, will find only that for which he searched, even if he must avoid what he actually found in order to satisfy his desires.

The phenomena has been explained objectively through demonstrable means and has been found to hold no connection with anything paranormal or supernatural. To continue to proclaim otherwise is to search only for what you desire to find, rather than the unblemished truth.


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Beastt17
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19:31:05 Dec 17 2008
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Re: "As you will Beastt17, I prefer no restrictions, not from science or religion, each to their own."

Indeed. No one is restricting you or attempting to restrict you. I'm simply pointing out the difference between rational conclusions drawn from evidence which produce demonstrable truths, and subjective biased selection which produces for each, the untruth most to their liking.

Some simply aren't interested in truth.


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Beastt17
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21:03:43 Dec 17 2008
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One cannot subscribe to personal subjectivity and make a credible claim to value truth. The two are simply not compatible. This has been confirmed so many times that it's hard to believe that some people remain unaware of the reality.

· Placebo-effect: (confirmed)
· Power of Suggestion: (confirmed)
· False memories: (confirmed)
· Myriads of "the one truth" religions

Study after study after study... all confirm the same thing - personal subjectivity does not point to truth. Objectivity does point to truth.

And there is no objective verification for the idea of past lives, spirits, souls, ghosts or any other form of continued sentience beyond death.



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Sinora
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21:11:42 Dec 17 2008
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Yes I know that's what you think and believe, and you know what I think and believe.

To continue to repeat these things will not change what I think and believe on this matter.

If your purpose is to 'enlighten' me, then I will thank you for your efforts and tell you that for the most part I enjoy reading your posts.



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Beastt17
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21:29:11 Dec 17 2008
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Re: "Yes I know that's what you think and believe, and you know what I think and believe.

To continue to repeat these things will not change what I think and believe on this matter."


This isn't about what people think or what people believe. People believe all kinds of things, many of which contradict one another. But if we look to man's history and every single confirmable discovery ever made by man, we find not a single case where the objective analysis conflicted with the subjective belief and the objective analysis didn't turn out to be correct -- not once.

So to claim that one finds value in truth and at the same time, to subscribe to personal subjectivity is a practice in contradiction. One either finds value in truth OR they can subscribe to subjective belief, not both. One is a violation of the other. That's a matter of confirmed factuality, not just belief. So you can believe what you wish, I can believe what I wish and anyone else can believe what they wish. But what we can "know" is a much different matter. And what we can "know" is that subjectivity has, in every resolved case, lead people away from truth, while objectivity has lead to the discovery of truth.

Truth or subjectivity. That's the choice.


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Sinora
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21:36:02 Dec 17 2008
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Re :Re: "Yes I know that's what you think and believe, and you know what I think and believe.

To continue to repeat these things will not change what I think and believe on this matter."

Actually it is exactly what this thread is all about....what people think and believe.

A question was asked, people...( mostly you and I ) have given answers, I rather think that's what is expected, though if you wish to add....



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Beastt17
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21:50:21 Dec 17 2008
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Thinking and believing don't lead to truth, Sinora. It never has. People here (I assume), are interested in the truth. Or do you suppose they just want to banter back and forth regarding fallacies and fantasies?

What leads to truth has been established many times over. People continue to believe in contrast to what has been shown to be true but that's not going to change what is and isn't true. It never has.

People arrived at the idea of volcano gods by subscribing to subjective belief. They concluded that they must toss their members and children into open craters by subscribing to subjective belief. People arrived at the confirmable conclusion of vulcanology by applying objective analysis. Which one was right? If you "believe" that volcanoes are a sign of an angry god, does that change anything about the veracity of vulcanology?

People arrived at the idea that disease and mental illness were caused by evil spirits by subscribing to subjective belief. Eventually, objective analysis demonstrated that disease is caused by microbes and/or genetic defects, not by evil spirits. You know which one was right. It doesn't matter if you disbelieve what you know. It's still the truth.

The list of such examples goes on, and on, and on. And the one consistency we find is that never has anyone arrived at truth by subscribing to subjective belief where subjective belief was at odds with objective analysis. You know that. And yet you come forward subscribing to subjective belief (AKA: "personal experience"), and then proclaim to value truth. The two simply don't work together, no matter what you believe.

And it is about what's true, and not just what people believe. People have been plagued with false beliefs for the duration of human existence. Why would anyone subscribing to the same methods which always failed in the past, suppose for an instant, that they were the least bit interested in truth?



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Sinora
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21:55:02 Dec 17 2008
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I was talking about what you think and beieve, as an individual, indeed what we all of us think and belive.

The purpose of the original post was not so much to delve into where one finds one's truth or indeed how, though you have been generous enough to share that with us.



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Beastt17
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22:05:05 Dec 17 2008
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From the Opening Post: "Please tell how you discovered your own or advice on where to start."

One starts with truth, not assumptions. The assumption is made that people have actually had past lives. If we look to the method which has always shown itself to be misguiding, this is where we find all of the suggestions for the concept of past lives.

If we instead look to the methodology which has provided confirmable truth, every time truth has been found; we find error in the assumption that anyone has had a past-life. So the answer to the final question posted in the opening post is; start with the truth. And the truth is that there is no objective evidence to support the concept of past lives.


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Sinora
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22:15:22 Dec 17 2008
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Re: From the Opening Post: "Please tell how you discovered your own or advice on where to start."

The key words here are....."your own", that's what people give, insights into their own understanding.

Where they find their that really is up to them.



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TearsofthePhoenix
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22:58:41 Dec 17 2008
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Wow...well if the original poster ever makes it down this far...look into Edgar Cayce. There are some interesting pieces on past lives and reincarnation.

I think this was mentioned earlier but it's an interesting thought...it could be that during past life regression therapy, we're mistaking past lives with dreams. Perhaps what we think are past lives are simply us accessing stored memory of dreams. I know I've had some wild dreams and many times I don't remember the dreams at all.

As for the off topic bickering...it's a speculative subject which is going to receive a ton of subjective answers. While offering objective, well stated evidence on the contrary is highly informative and keeps the discussion in perspective, stating it over and over and over again is beating a dead horse and can be perceived as combative. Stating that an idea has no evidence to support it...

Every...

Single...

Time (blantant attempt at mockery)

bogs down the speculative discussion (and yes put me down for wanting to banter about fallacies). By no means am I suggesting your comments are not welcome. It's certainly not my place to decide that. In fact, I enjoy reading them...most of the time. However, they can be a bit of a buzz kill ;)



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LordWolf
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23:41:00 Dec 18 2008
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ive tried hypnosis, and meditations to learn about my past. in one i was recorded speaking a language that i dont speak! if that was my imagination, then i have a really cool one indeed!
that said, you just need to try different things and see what works for you.



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Beastt17
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21:03:16 Dec 19 2008
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So then you'd be willing to conclude that church denominations who speak in tongues must be following the "one true religion"?



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dabbler
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22:55:32 Dec 19 2008
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You have a recording?

See after watching taped sessions myself, most monitored by "guides" , I would be interested in listening to such a phenomenal presentation.



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LordWolf
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uh....no, and frankly i dont understand how you came up with that conclusion. i would say that they are potentially valid, at least for those that are doing the speaking. you have to understand that im a bit of a pan-theist, and think there is something to almost all belief systems. the primary thing i look for "validity wise" would be whether or not it fills a need in the adherent.
that aside, what does that have to do with past lives?


pax yall.



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SoulReaverPrime
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02:32:53 Dec 20 2008
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I've had two friends with insight into these matters explain to me what they've seen as my past lives. They'd both seen similar images, and yet never talked to each other about them as far as I know.



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BBorn30
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03:29:46 Dec 20 2008
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I wish to speak thusly on this subject. I believe that time is much more fluid than we give it credit in this form we inhabit. I also believe that we need to give constructive help, not denigrating opinion. If the opinion is helpful then wonderful if not, then I feel in this forum we should not speak of it. I believe for those that are sensitive enough to feel, dream, and remember said memories that is a gift and cannot always be understood or respected. I will say that the past is a strength to me, I do live in the present but it does not hurt to indulge good memories.



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Beastt17
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08:37:59 Dec 20 2008
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Re: "uh....no, and frankly i dont understand how you came up with that conclusion."

Well frankly, I didn't. I simply extrapolated the reasoning you seemed to be applying to your experience regarding hypnosis. If speaking a language doesn't realize they know how to speak is conclusive evidence of past lives, then why wouldn't it also be conclusive evidence of a connection with a one true god?
---

Re: "what does that have to do with past lives?"

How does it have any more or less to do with them when you made the assertion that speaking a foreign language you didn't know you could speak? You're using the utterance of language unknown to the speaker to assert that they must have lived a past life and that's the unusual assertion. Church denominations who speak in languages unknown to the speakers assert that it's a sign from their god. Why is one assertion valid but not the other?
---

Re: "you just need to try different things and see what works for you."

Firstly, one should probably determine the definition of "works" as presented in such a statement.


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Beastt17
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08:46:09 Dec 20 2008
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Re: "I believe that time is much more fluid than we give it credit in this form we inhabit."

Is there any objective evidence to present for support of that assertion or is it just a flamboyant idea?
---

Re: "I also believe that we need to give constructive help, not denigrating opinion."

If a man firmly believes he can walk 100-feet behind the running engines of a Boeing 747-400 without being harmed and starts to do so, are you giving him constructive help when you try to convince him not to do so or are you just offering a "denigrating opinion"?
---

Re: "I believe for those that are sensitive enough to feel, dream, and remember said memories that is a gift and cannot always be understood or respected."

How much understanding and respect should be offered for an idea or concept that can't be understood or respected?


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dabbler
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20:03:53 Dec 20 2008
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Psycologist make note of cases involving people that had numerous sessions with past life regressionalist, noting also that past life regressionalist usually have records for violations in clinical psyco thearepy, I did some infield research, and talked to a geneologist who viewed the material, she said regressionalist have good history skills, and would make good geneologist with training.



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Beastt17
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02:18:53 Dec 21 2008
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Re: "For the record, I agree with Lordwolf it was a huge leap lol."

Isn't it wonderful how no matter how well demonstrated something is, no matter how clearly it's explained and no matter how obvious it is, some can simply make a statement and somehow seem to think that wipes away all of the evidence, all of the obvious logic and all of the demonstrations?

This is likely what I'm referring to when I suggest that once people being to accept illogical, irrational or unevidenced ideas as true, they're left with no standard of reality anymore. They begin just to pluck away at whatever, and assume it must be true because they no longer have anything to weigh an assertion against in order to determine it's validity.

Someone claims to have spoken a language they don't know and they take that as a definite sign of a past life.

Someone else claims to have spoken a language they don't know and they take that as a definite sign that they're worshiping the one true god because they're worshiping at the time.

Both see the assertion of the other as a huge leap, but don't apply the same standards to their own assertion or they'd end up seeing the same huge leap which lead to their desired assertion in the first place.

Pointing out that one can't follow the same pattern when applied to two slightly different assumptions does nothing to alter the pattern. The pattern still exists. Being completely biased for one and against the other doesn't present an argument either against or for either assertion. It only demonstrates an inability to see a pattern and apply it equally to something you do believe/like, and to something you don't believe/like.

And that's how people get so caught up in all kinds of unevidenced, illogical and unreasonable ideas. Once you recognize that there are standards which have always demonstrated their reliability and learn to let go of pet-beliefs which fail by those standards, the ability to reason begins to reform. Bias begins to fade and one's perceptions of reality begin to align with what reality actually demonstrates.


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LordWolf
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05:49:28 Dec 21 2008
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Re: "uh....no, and frankly i dont understand how you came up with that conclusion."

"Well frankly, I didn't. I simply extrapolated the reasoning you seemed to be applying to your experience regarding hypnosis. If speaking a language doesn't realize they know how to speak is conclusive evidence of past lives, then why wouldn't it also be conclusive evidence of a connection with a one true god?"


thats alot of extrapolation. sort of like extrapolating that if a poisonous snake lives in a particular pond, then all animals in that pond must therefore be poisonous snakes. i had an experience and since that experience was in the context of past life regression, i think it lends credence to it. if someone going to a particular church is able to speak a lingo that he/she previously didnt know, then perhaps that is a sign of the intervention of a diety.
i dont see how there could be any evidence of a "one true god" as miraculous events are associated with almost every belief system known to mankind.
if you have another idea of how i might instantly learn a foreign lingo, please tell me...i want to sell the idea to roseta stone and make a mint!


---

Re: "what does that have to do with past lives?"

"How does it have any more or less to do with them when you made the assertion that speaking a foreign language you didn't know you could speak? You're using the utterance of language unknown to the speaker to assert that they must have lived a past life and that's the unusual assertion. "

again, its the context. when it occurs during a regression, it does make me go "hmmmmmm".
i suppose my question would be that since this ends up being something of a faith issue, if you dont agree with the assertion, why waste all the time and effort to openly disagree with others?
but hey...if it makes ya feel better, enjoy.




"Church denominations who speak in languages unknown to the speakers assert that it's a sign from their god. Why is one assertion valid but not the other?"


some people think the kennedy assassination was a conspiracy.....some people think that the moon landings was a conspiracy.....
if one, ergo the other.....
very flawed logic mi amigo. Why is one assertion valid but not the other? perhaps a better question is why the validity of one would have any effect on the validity of the other.

---

Re: "you just need to try different things and see what works for you."

"Firstly, one should probably determine the definition of "works" as presented in such a statement."


i think each individual should determine that. its the whole point of the comment. im not enough of an ego maniac to define what works for others.



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La6Muerte66
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12:28:10 Dec 21 2008
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LordWolf, I like ya, but there are a few problems with some of what you're saying. I'm sure Beastt will address it himself anyway, but there are a few problems with your reasoning.

thats alot of extrapolation. sort of like extrapolating that if a poisonous snake lives in a particular pond, then all animals in that pond must therefore be poisonous snakes.

More accurately, it would be like a person seeing a poisonous snake in a pond and assuming it lives there, then another person seeing the same snake in another pond and assuming it lives there instead. The idea of speaking in tongues has been used as 'evidence' of past lives to some (you) and it has been used as evidence of following the 'true faith'.

i had an experience and since that experience was in the context of past life regression, i think it lends credence to it. if someone going to a particular church is able to speak a lingo that he/she previously didnt know, then perhaps that is a sign of the intervention of a diety. i dont see how there could be any evidence of a "one true god" as miraculous events are associated with almost every belief system known to mankind.

'Having an experience' is interesting enough, but it doesn't necessarily confirm anything. There's a problem with this though. People 'speak in tongues' at churches all over the world, but it's most often churches that believe their one denomination is the one true faith, and that their god has specifically laid out their religion. So we have a bit of a contradiction here. Either there are deities fighting over something as petty as being the 'one true god' or they're fucking with people. Neither one lends much credence to the idea. If people are having these not-so-miraculous experiences for a number of religious reasons, we might want to look into the cause of these fits in the first place.

if you have another idea of how i might instantly learn a foreign lingo, please tell me...i want to sell the idea to roseta stone and make a mint!

I don't know the cause of 'speaking in tongues', since I'm far from an expert, but something I can suggest that doesn't involve anything mystical: you hear a phrase, or even a few lines or more in a certain language. You don't understand them, but the syllables stay in your short-term memory for a while. Eventually, they passed into your long-term memory and are buried in your subconscious. Weeks, months, years later, you see a regressionist, expecting to uncover a past life, and expecting something 'cool' or miraculous. You get hypnotized, and old memories resurface. You speak out the snippet you heard that one time, not necessarily aware of where it came from (that's all been forgotten), and your expectations have been fulfilled. Nothing more to see here, you've just spoken a language you only knew in a past life. It doesn't necessarily confirm the existence of a past life, or the existence of a god.

Now ^^^ that is PURELY speculation, so if someone who knows more about the mechanisms of memory and the mind than I do can show that not to be a possibility, I'd be glad to hear it.



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ImageMaker
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14:32:51 Dec 21 2008
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Since this person is asking for help discovering methods to recall their past lives, at some point it just becomes bothersome for the skeptics to continue jumping up and done calling nay.

We get it, you don't believe, that's your right. However some people on here clearly do believe and that is their right. So if you don't have anything helpful or nice to say, maybe you just shouldn't say anything at all.

I'm tired of having to skip over massively long posts that blather on about logic and fact and recite the same argument over and over again.

If there is the possibility that somebody had stated a really interesting theory or point on the topic who would be able to pick it out of this mess.



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Sinora
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14:43:40 Dec 21 2008
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No Beastt17, what I meant was to take this :


ive tried hypnosis, and meditations to learn about my past. in one i was recorded speaking a language that i dont speak! if that was my imagination, then i have a really cool one indeed!
that said, you just need to try different things and see what works for you.

Then to suppose that lordwolf alluding to any "one true religion" etc was too great a leap.



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La6Muerte66
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15:07:12 Dec 21 2008
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So if you don't have anything helpful or nice to say, maybe you just shouldn't say anything at all.

If someone holds a belief that you feel is harmful, is it not helpful to explain why it is/can be harmful, or at least present evidence that it is futile? After all, if something hasn't yet been refuted (something you'd only find if you DID read all of the posts), it is a potential lead to follow. If people just spout their own ideas about regressions, past lives, etc. without healthy skepticism, then there's nothing to differentiate between helpful advice and nonsensical rambling. I could tell you (extreme example) that the best way to find out about your past lives is to think about what you really want to be, and describe a person that fits the mold. Then you've discovered what you may have been in a past life (I've actually read a similar exercise in a past-life book). If these ideas aren't debated/debunked, they can seem to have just as much legitimacy as a genuine suggestion. We're helping YOU out, really.


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XXgoddessXofXtheXnightXX
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15:59:00 Dec 21 2008
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A lot of past life recollection occurs subconsciously, and through dreams. Many things just feel like deja vu but... they probably aren't ;)



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La6Muerte66
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16:17:04 Dec 21 2008
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I don't need your help. I'm open to discussion, especially since typically I lean towards disbelief. I just think it goes too far sometimes.

It may go a bit far sometimes, I agree. However, those 'long-winded' posts put forth a lot of great evidence and ideas, and are summarily cast aside just because they're so long? If you don't agree with the post, that's fine, but address what you don't agree with and why, so that the matter can be settled. The fact that these posts are ignored in their entirety and people continue to state things that have already been discussed and refuted is the reason the same arguments keep being repeated. To just ignore an argument is the opposite of productive discussion.

To put my advice on past lives in a short, concise manner:

1. Determine why you're looking for past lives.
2. Determine whether or not they are real, using evidence that hasn't already been debunked.
3. Look at the methods available
4. Look at the arguments against each method, and decide which ones still seem viable.
5. Use one of the methods to gather 'data'.
6. Analyse the 'data' (starting to sound familiar?)
7. Come to a conclusion that fits the 'data'.

There. A bastardized version of the scientific method that can be applied to past lives.


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Beastt17
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20:50:42 Dec 21 2008
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Re: "Since this person is asking for help discovering methods to recall their past lives, at some point it just becomes bothersome for the skeptics to continue jumping up and done calling nay."

The first step in discovering anything is to confirm that it exists. This has not been confirmed. Until it has been, no "help" anyone provides will actually help them with anything. It will only serve to mislead.
---

Re: "We get it, you don't believe, that's your right. However some people on here clearly do believe and that is their right. So if you don't have anything helpful or nice to say, maybe you just shouldn't say anything at all."

Those who believe are offering their conjecture, assumptions and borrowed assumptions. Those who don't believe are offering logic, means of consistent reliability and critical thought. It's interesting that some believe they should have an exclusive right to present their view at the same time they're suggesting anyone with an opposing view should keep silent.
---

Re: "I'm tired of having to skip over massively long posts that blather on about logic and fact and recite the same argument over and over again."

"Blather on about logic"; is a phrase which is more likely to bring discredit to any proposed concept than to win support. Logic is not your enemy. You're communicating over a computer network. How well would that work without logic?
---

Re: "If there is the possibility that somebody had stated a really interesting theory or point on the topic who would be able to pick it out of this mess."

If people wish to offer support for the concept of past lives, then it would be both helpful and refreshing. However, as will most assertions leaning to the supernatural, no one seems to be able to provide anything but subjective anecdotal suggestions.

If we look to history we can find subjective anecdotal suggestions to support the idea of geocentrism, volcano gods, disease-causing spirits, men floating in air, matter being instantly fabricated out of nothing, fire-breathing dragons and thousands and thousands of supposed gods, most of whom were asserted to be somehow connected with life beyond death.

You have the right to post either way or in a neutral fashion. You don't have the right to tell anyone how they must post or when they can or can't post.


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Beastt17
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21:03:24 Dec 21 2008
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Re: "I don't need your help. I'm open to discussion, especially since typically I lean towards disbelief. I just think it goes too far sometimes."

If we look to history we find something which is incredibly consistent -- whenever people make assertions to the unevidenced and they begin to win a strong following, the result is always persecution of those who do not believe. Even those who believe often end up persecuted, tortured, sacrificed or just murdered and usually, by fellow believers.

Perhaps you don't need our help. But rarely does anyone ever find truth if they can't hold their ideas against contrary ideas and show that they have merit. If the only way one can garner support for an idea is to isolate it from those who might present reasonable challenges, then the idea is already bankrupt and worthless.

Those who worshiped volcano gods and thrust their peers into active craters didn't think they needed anyone's help nor did they welcome that help. How many people -- some of them children -- might not have died in the choking gases and heat of a volcano had they recognized that they actually did need the help of people who maintain logic and reason, even when the false security of supposed additional lives is proposed?

If you wish to present your opinion on the topic, by all means, do so. If you want to tell everyone else whether they can or can't post, that's not your job and is well outside of the rules of the forum.


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Beastt17
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21:21:02 Dec 21 2008
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Re: "thats alot of extrapolation. sort of like extrapolating that if a poisonous snake lives in a particular pond, then all animals in that pond must therefore be poisonous snakes."

I would say that it's far closer to extrapolating that if a snake has fangs, bites and causes advanced swelling around the site of the bite, that it's probably venomous, even if not all of the snakes in question are the same color or size.

Again it comes back to that which is easily demonstrated; some suggest that they have lived past lives and attempt to link the supposed spontaneous utterings of a "language" unknown to them as evidence of a past life.

Others suggest that they will live a future life under the watchful eye of a proposed god and they attempt to use the supposed spontaneous utterings of a "language" unknown to them as evidence of the existence of this proclaimed god.

The two are easily observed to be parallels as well as being poorly constructed assertions. One does not present evidence for anything simply by proclaiming it to be evidence. One must first confirm that what they're are suggesting is real and then demonstrate the link between their assertion and their proclaimed evidence. Assuming that spontaneous utterings are somehow linked to a past life is in no way more or less demonstrated than assuming it to be linked to any god or the following of any religion.

To suggest that spontaneous utterings are evidence of a past life is no more logically based than to find the horn of an unknown animal and proclaim that it's evidence of unicorns. It's an unknown, not a known. And if you want it to be a known, then you need to come up with a rational link which follows logic rather than an illogical assumption which relies upon one unevidenced belief to support yet another unevidenced belief.


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Erinyes
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22:40:42 Dec 21 2008
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most people find out about their past lives by pure accident,be it a dream or a thought that keeps coming to you as a past memmory that occured but never happened in the current lifetime,i have heard stories of parents asking their kids that were age 3-5 about their past life and the children would explain in some detail of another life,a good way to find ones past life in transgressions would be hypnotism by a professional.



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Beastt17
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05:28:48 Dec 22 2008
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Children will also often tell you of their invisible friends, their flying imaginary dog and the monster in the closet. That's why stories by themselves are without any objective compelling value. They are only found to be of value by those who have already decided that the claim is true and have closed their minds to any other possibility.

When a child openly disagrees with us, then they're "just a child". But if a child agrees with us in areas where other adults often don't, then the implication is put forth that the child has some special ability, special insight or is more in-tuned to a supposed special knowledge. They're children. They have yet to come to an understanding of reality because their experience is more limited. Attempting to present them as having special gifts adults don't have, or have to lesser degree is completely contrary to the evidence.



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Jamie
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07:09:12 Dec 22 2008
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Yes, agreed, kids are the most psychic, but yea, at a young age. I was just reading about that how we are the most psychic until around 6 I think it was. So ask a kid who they were before they were this person. Or who knows, ask who YOU were. Might be interesting what they say!



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dabbler
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07:49:51 Dec 22 2008
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I feel personally telling a child that they have past lives is right up there with telling a child they have multiple personality, youre paving the way for dissacotive dissorder, imagine a child that is told they have past lives relating that fact to other kids.. Yea cry about how other people need to learn to tolerate beliefs.. But kids are mean to kids that stand out vocally.

Being around other peoples kids shows me how children led their parents to believe they have more then a token interest in their
Newest new age interest, my mom did crafts..



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Beastt17
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11:12:08 Dec 22 2008
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Re: "Yes, agreed, kids are the most psychic, but yea, at a young age. I was just reading about that how we are the most psychic until around 6 I think it was."

Let us not forget that while some will negligently make the assertion that children are the "most psychic", the fact remains that no one has ever demonstrated even the most feeble of confirmed psychic ability. Perhaps the largest stumbling-block I see here is that some seem to believe that if it's written in a book, then it just has to be true. Nothing could be further from the truth. When you consider the tens of thousands (perhaps millions), of people who make the claim to be psychic, it's incredibly significant to note that not once has anyone been able to do anything which could be verified as "psychic activity" -- not once. Meanwhile, a long, long list of proclaimed psychics have been revealed for the tricksters and frauds they really are.

So I have to agree with dabbler here; telling your child he's psychic is both outright distortion of every kind of demonstrable truth and detrimental to the child, both from the perspective of peer-rejection and to the degree that it will hinder the child's ability to apply reason and logic to problem-solving skills later in life. Once you toss out reason, logic and evidence and begin appealing only to conjecture, you lose every standard ever demonstrated to be reliable in distinguishing reality from fallacy.

My parents believed in psychic powers, telekinesis, life beyond death, spirits, ghosts, demons, gods, extra-terrestrial visitors, spiritual healers and the vast bulk of the assertions I see made here. I was raised believing those things too. But I eventually reached a point in my life where reality hit like a freight train. It left me emotionally damaged, aching for some grasp on reality, brutally alone and determined to find the truth no matter what affectionately-held, subjective beliefs might be lost in the process. I began to apply an objective analysis to the world around me. I found that there is no evidence consistent with the benevolent force I'd been lead to believe existed. Indeed all of the credible evidence demonstrates a cold rigid indifference. I found that there is nothing but subjective assertion to support such subjective beliefs.

My parents weren't attempting to be intentionally harmful. They were quite loving and well-intentioned. But the bottom-line is simply that there exists today, no more support for any of those beliefs than when I was a teenager some 30-years ago. There has been absolutely zero progress toward demonstrating any of these faith-based beliefs to have any merit whatsoever. And if we look back one hundred-years, or five-hundred, or a thousand, or five-thousand; we consistently find the same thing -- subjective assertions just as are being made today, with zero credible evidence to support of any of those assertions.

Such beliefs have been at an evidentiary stand-still throughout human history and there still exists no cause to believe that it will ever change. One might be considered closed-minded or inducted into *shivers* "rational and logical beliefs" for taking an honest, objective, analytical look at the presented arguments for such beliefs, but it's always the subjective, biased, selectively adopted beliefs that turn out to be wrong. Everything that is ever confirmed to be true is confirmed by the very same objective methods and evidences people making such subjective claims reject outright.



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LordWolf
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05:24:13 Dec 24 2008
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put it this way....i dont consider what i did to be speaking in tongues i once went to a pentecostal church and speaking in tongues is gibberish.
i cant explain what happened to me, but my mind is open, and i have seen some very good evidence of past lives.

that said, im hear to discuss things that have occurred to myself or others and attempt to understand them, not to just ridicule them.

ive said this before...if you dont believe something, then why the intense need to tell someone you think they are wrong?

if i read a post that i think is horse shit, i generally just think to myself that there is a strong smell of manure here, move on, and not step in it. i dont sit up late at night looking for something online i disagree with to pounce on it.

just my two cents worth, if you disagree thats fine, but dont feel you have to share it with me.



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dabbler
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06:05:34 Dec 24 2008
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I find alluding to people that accept more rational explsimation for what others call past life I'd being ridiculed, or ignored.

I see few here that account any depth as to how past life regression applied to their life, I hear post in other past life threads repeated, I see responses to presented considerations that are past off, and intepreted for past life. How is that ridicule? I hear the same pitches, all with a personal signature, then if someone presents anything other then agreement they expand on the complexity of their former account.

It can be agreed by believers, and nonbeiivers that not all who claim to
"guide such regressions".



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Beastt17
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09:48:15 Dec 24 2008
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Re: "i dont consider what i did to be speaking in tongues"
What you do or don't consider it to be doesn't change the nature of what happened nor does it separate it from the same kind of activity which is often referred to by some as "speaking in tongues".
---

Re: "i once went to a pentecostal church and speaking in tongues is gibberish. "

If two men do the same thing it doesn't really matter that they have different names for it. Was the "language" you spoke identified? If so, by whom? Was it translated? What did you say in this language which is unknown to you?
---

Re: "my mind is open, and i have seen some very good evidence of past lives."

We should try to be clear about this. If your mind were open, you'd be telling us that "something happened" and you don't know exactly what or exactly why. In stating that you've seen good evidence of "past lives", you're demonstrating closed-mindedness. You don't know exactly what happened. You only know that you're lacking any kind of confirmable explanation for it. That doesn't make it evidence of a past life. It makes it an "unexplained phenomena". An open-minded person calls it what it is, without labeling it anything conclusive until they have conclusive evidence to support a given label. No conclusive evidence has been provided. So the open-minded approach is to call it "an unexplained phenomena".
---

Re: "im hear to discuss things that have occurred to myself or others and attempt to understand them, not to just ridicule them. "

Nobody is ridiculing anything. We disagree on what is happening. You insist that it's a phenomenon resulting from a past life. I'm suggesting that it's a phenomenon which is not fully explained. That doesn't mean I'm ridiculing anyone any more than you are. You hold one belief, I hold another. Why is it that you don't understand that you're not being ridiculed, even while you're doing the exact same thing as those you accuse, which is simply to offer points of disagreement?

And if you were really attempting to understand rather than attempting to champion a particular premature conclusion, you'd not be so adverse to looking at other possible explanations.
---

Re: "if you dont believe something, then why the intense need to tell someone you think they are wrong?"

Because when people adopt a belief, close their mind to more demonstrable explanations and invoke proclamations of the supernatural, several bad things tend to take place. Firstly, they're suggesting that natural explanations aren't sufficient to explain some things and yet, never has any phenomenon ever been confirmed via other than purely natural means. You're attempting to over-turn the entire duration of man's history on flimsy anecdotal evidence and personal subjective assertion. It takes a bit more than that.

Secondly, you're suggesting that we dismiss logic and reason and turn to a suggested realm where what we see as logic and reason, may not actually apply. If you lose logic, reason, and the reliability of objective evidence, then all of man's developed means of assessing any observation become null and void.

Thirdly, in supporting premature conclusions which run contrary to what all of human history has consistently demonstrated, you stop short of true understanding. It's little different than not holding any concept of microbes, and therefore concluding that diseases are caused by evil spirits. It's something man has been doing for as long as he has attempted to become skilled at problem solving. And yet, every time he has jumped to such poorly supported conclusions, the eventual confirmed answers show that he was wrong. Why are people so insistent that this is going to change now when it hasn't changed in tens of thousands of years of rash conclusions, superstitions and close-mindedness? We should see to avoid ignorance and not draw conclusions until those conclusions are fully supported by the evidence.

I grasp that you don't understand what happened. That's the one part about this we can both see as being confirmed. But you don't wish to remain satisfied with that. Instead you insist that it is an effect caused by a past life. That's really little different than an NTSB crash investigator completing an investigation of an airline crash and finding no conclusive cause. So rather than list the cause as "unconfirmed", he lists it as being shot down by a UFO.
---

Re: "i dont sit up late at night looking for something online i disagree with to pounce on it."

No? Are there people posting suggestions with which you disagree? Are you responding to those posts? It's a pot & kettle situation. You're no less, and no more, guilty of doing what you allege of others than those you accuse. The word "perspective" comes into play here. You see those who agree with you as being innocent and positive. You see those who disagree as being aggressive and abrasive. Some who disagree with you are going to see you exactly as you see them. We're simply on opposite sides of an issue and supporting our position with the best information we have available. If you find that troublesome, remember that no one forces you to come here and point fingers at anyone or to convince yourself that somehow, you're being persecuted. You're doing exactly what those you accuse are doing.
---

Re: "just my two cents worth, if you disagree thats fine, but dont feel you have to share it with me."

See?

You've presented your two cents in disagreement with myself and several others. Then you close your comments by suggesting that we shouldn't do exactly as you have done.

The term is "double-standard" and if you could try to see past your highly biased perspective, you might suddenly realize that we're two sides of the same coin. We're not doing anything you're not doing. It's a discussion board. We're discussing. As far as I know there hasn't been any new rule adopted which insists that everyone has to agree with the poorly evidenced assertions of those who side with the paranormal statements.


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Beastt17
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07:50:19 Dec 26 2008
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There is more than opinion involved here and in most other discussions implicating the paranormal or supernatural. And that's perhaps at the crux of most of these discussions. On one side there is conjecture, on the other side, clear hard evidence. It may be only a matter of opinion on one side, but certainly not both.



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LordWolf
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19:21:34 Dec 26 2008
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so for those that seem to delight in taking shots at those that feel they have a reason to believe in past lives, do any of you have any past life experiences to relate, or are you simply here in order to be the oh so intellectual skeptic?



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Beastt17
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19:52:50 Dec 26 2008
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Re: "so for those that seem to delight in taking shots at those that feel they have a reason to believe in past lives"

Do you feel you're discussing reasons to believe in past lives or do you see yourself as delighting in "taking shots" at those who don't believe in past lives?

Again... perspective.

You're discussing reasons to believe, others are discussing reasons not to believe -- two sides of the same discussion. Relax.
---

Re: "do any of you have any past life experiences to relate, or are you simply here in order to be the oh so intellectual skeptic?"

Is there something wrong with applying intellect, reason, evidence and logic to the examination of a proposed concept?

If so, please state what you believe to be wrong about such methodology.


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dabbler
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21:57:59 Dec 27 2008
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Those that believe in past life regressions, and ven those who practice past life regression, argue among themselves as to who is more qualified to do such thing, I have seen out right bashing by one person
who claimed to do past life readings bashing on on-line readers.

I have seen posturing in every field of "psychic" matters, A person simply believeing is not enough, they have to believe, then accept the popular "understanding", just like those who Identify as Vampires take shots at each others,

So my question is. What Does past life mean to you?

Spending 75 dollars a session?

Buying a Popular DIY book?

One that will likely disagree with another teacher/instructor. When responding to cynics I can see being offended. But the skeptic is another animal all together.

Even Believers "take shots" at each other, the Archives show this well.








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venumstings
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05:20:54 Dec 28 2008
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Well, it is little may be hard work for revoking past life memories or vision. one can go through vision only and vision is only the source of finding past life and its hard path coz it take a lot of days to bring into practice.

In vision what you do that you search the answer to the quest in thoughtless postion visual way in your vision and yes with close eyelids cz open eyelid drains the energy for beginers, i was the beginer whe was doing test exercise when i tried with open eye lids it made me fall on the bed within 4-5 minutes.



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venumstings
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08:53:18 Dec 28 2008
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(Bows in reverence)
Honorable Dabler I placed my opinion that it can be possible through vision and sorcery and nothing is concerned to the past lives more than the vision work.


There is one method mmy one friend being teacher se was teaching me on vision, i did try on fourth day with open eye lid and that drained my energy very fast even that fast vampire could not suck my energy. I was simply tired and no power in my body to keep sitting on chair and i pulled my chair to bed and fell on it to rest and could not stand for an hour least. I was graceless immediately after the start of exercise within 5 minutes. and with close eyelid i could surf the vision as much as I did and even more. in close eye lid I used to search for 45 minutes, you wont believe it but it was astral planes of vision. vision in which you wont move your celestial body and only eyes watches all. and astral you fly or go astral with celestial body.



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LordWolf
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19:47:49 Jan 02 2009
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for me past life is simply who i was before i was ...me.
as for the research, im open to various methods, but i think different methods will work at differing levels for different people. lucky for me the regression that i had was done by a friend for free. perhaps it was all my subconscious, i dont discount that, but it was very cool.



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dabbler
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21:53:49 Jan 02 2009
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Was that something you would have paid 70 dollars for? Would you consider going "deeper" back?

How has your sitting applied to your current existence?

Was that the one that you where recorded speaking in a forieng tongue? What tongue was it?
Did you keep the recording?



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VampiraDracul
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03:36:33 Jan 13 2009
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Personally I don't really want to know about my past lives, in case they were traumatic and would negatively affect me in this life. I have had dreams which I believe were memories of past lives, and I have scried in candles and seen images of what I believe were from a past life.



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queenofdarkness73
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03:45:52 Jan 20 2009
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I would like to be able to find out if I had a past life or not. I don't think that everybody has had a life before the one you are in now.



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edtatkin
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10:05:00 Jan 20 2009
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No one knows for sure whether reincarnation exists, but there are at least a handful of scientists who have studied this -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation#Scientific_research

Assuming that we do reincarnate, there would be an obvious reason for not remembering past lives -- people would act differently if they knew that they would get unlimited opportunities to try again.

As in the case of a play or a movie, it's less fun to participate if you keep reminding yourself that it's only entertainment.

I don't disagree with the sceptics who correctly point out that the scientific evidence is far from strong. But I also sympathize with those who intuitively believe in reincarnation, and hope that they are correct.



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LilithSkye
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09:40:24 Feb 09 2009
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Well there are different ways about finding out what things happened in a past life. There are many books on the subject and there are several websites. The best one I can tell you is to go into your community and see if there is someone in the community who can actually help you go back. If you are ever in the Central Arkansas area let me know. We have a lady here that does them. She is very helpful



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MarcelChampney
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12:54:29 Feb 10 2009
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I've always wondered about this as well. I have certain "obsessions" that I have had for many many years, and paticular for one period of time.

I've always wondered "Why?"

I would love to talk with someone some day and see if there is a link.

I believe in past lifes, so I would be curious to learn more.



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Revenous
Revenous

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10:44:00 Mar 16 2009
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Well for the Author of the thread I would say, try all the opinions and advice people gave you here along with the links, they look pretty interesting; the only link related to this topic in my life is just a personal visions of a friend with psychic abilities among other things. she claimed that I was a general in 2 of my past lives one in Asia aC and the other in Egyptian bC times and some details of my wife leaving me in one of them and that I ended up committing suicide from personal conflicts among other thins haha, pretty weird huh!, I really don’t know if this are credible and accurate statements, but to be honest I do feel I’m not from this era, and none of the labors in present times really triggers my excitement in job prospects, maybe the most closest I would find fitting for my interest would be a strategist, then again i would never serve the US government ideas of liberty. The thinking of not belonging on the present time period was one of the main reasons I recurred to this reading I believe you could start by mapping questions like that presented also in a earlier reply.



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Revenous
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10:50:48 Mar 16 2009
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Also, if you are going to try with someone with psychic abilities as I did, don’t say anything about why you came there or reasons or whatever, just say a reading of my past life, don't say the whole I don’t feel from this time shit I just said for example, you will find many surprises, depending of the people you attend and his/her abilities.



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LordWolf
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21:48:11 Mar 16 2009
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ok..first off, people who say that they are cleopatra are obviously delusional. i on the other hand really am gaius julius caesar! LOL (ok kids, thats a joke for the humor challenged).
there are several documented examples of phenomina that might not be proof of reencarnation, but if not are certainly proof of something very odd.
one example was on the news in north eastern ohio about 4 years ago.
a kid about 6 and his mom were being interviewed. apparently when the kid was about 3 his mom and he walked by a toy store...the mom pointed out an airplane with something sticking out of the wing. she asked her son if he saw the machine gun in the wing....his response was "oh mom, thats not a machine gun, its a pitot tube. ( a tube that allows for the measure of air speed). as the years passed, he over time told his mom how he was a pilot in the war, and the japs shot him down over some island (that she had never heard of).

he even identified his old squadron and his wingman. mom found out a not long afterwards that the squadron was having a reunion and she attended. she met the man that was the "wing man" (he existed) and when asked about the man that the kid said he was, he said that he did exist, and that he died just as the kid said.
after this point the kids "memories" of his past life started to fade.
after writing this (i first heard this story as i said, a few years back) i decided to look and see if i could find any more info about it.
i found this link. my suggestion...just read this with an open mind. not suggesting that it should be so open your brain falls out, but just open.
i have read a number of accounts, and personally im convenced.
your milage may vary
~Wolf~



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LordWolf
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22:00:26 Mar 16 2009
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oops!
ok...here is the link.
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Technology/Story?id=894217&page=1

cheers!
~W~



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VR System
VR System

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22:00:26 Mar 16 2009
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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