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For all you out there I've been reading a little here and there is it Possible for Cain to return..
This is an example of one thing I found.

Over the next 1000 years, At times, it was said that a person who claimed to be Cain appeared here and there. One of his most heightened appearances is known in a story in which he appeared amongst a band of gypsies and embracing a man by the name of Ravnos, after his father had been killed by other vampires. As time went on, Ravnos was introduced to Ennoia (Ennoia was the daughter of Lilith, and half sister of Cain.)Ravnos ended up turning Ennoia into a vampire. Ennoia later betrayed Ravnos and caused death to come upon Ravnos. Because of this, Cain cursed her. Ennoia later became known as the creator of the clan Gangrel. It is said that if Cain ever makes any appearances, it is done rather speedily.

Interesting theory, but I doubt it...

But, didn't it say in the bible that eventually God forgave Cain and he went to Heaven? Then again, I think Cain just sort of disappeared out of the bible.

You doubt it, But it's already happened before. The one claiming to be. What about a line direct of Cain. Claiming the thrown. All the houses are still based loosly on the original house of Cain. You believe yourself Vampires, Why couldn't believe there is a pure line, Or even Cain himself returning.

The Church made him disappear. Because Just like Satan. He didn't serve a purpose. If you could show me the verse Number I'll look at it, But, I never remember him being Forgave.

That's the thing I don't remember. I'll have to have a chat with one of my friends that is more versed with the Bible. I'll get back to you.

Ok, I don't think it's there being a good little drone like I was younger, I readit cover to cover many times. :) But, Hey That's why the posts here I need you imput.

no offence. but where's the reality here.

how can the guy return, when he might not even exist.

then again. how can vampires be around, when they might not exist.

Lets face it, everyone on this earth has had some unexplained occurance. and with so many possibilities. it may be possibly that a state of vampirism exists. but who knows how? all we have as proof for this condition is old texts and myths.

Right out of Vampire the Masquerade is were it is from.

How so Radu?

It comes from a book called Clanbook Ravnos.At least she did not copy it stright out of the book.

did anyone else ever just take a step back and realise that this entire comcept of vampires could be absolute trollop?

That's assuming that Cain ever really existed to begin with. But as I don't want to start a religion vs. evolution arguement here, I'll just leave it at that.

Gorey, that's always a possibility. I'm sure that those smarter than I will be able to figure it out.

figure what out?

White Wolf, much?

As Radu said, thats RPG stuff from what I know...

As far as people claming to be cain,
how many people claim to be Jesus or the Messiah?
Does it really matter?
Why should I care? Please don't bother quoting a bunch of White Wolf crap
IT'S JUST A FUCKING GAME!

like i keep saying, anything is possible, u never know

could be a nice theory, could just be fiction either.

Gorey has a point, and Im always talking about the different types of vampires, and which ones exist.

If you believe that a vampire is immortal, then yes it could indeed be true, and if you did believe, than Caine would probably be a very good candidate (although it would be inteestig to hear soem of you come up with a purpose). However it could be codswallup.

My thoughts on this subject go with what BrennendeSeele said

anything is possible. in my eyes unless it has been proven imposible.

I BELEIVE THAT THINGS ARE POSSIBLE I HEARD THAT SOME OF THE BIBLE WAS TAKEN WHAT IS BEING HIDDEN FROM EVERYONE THAT THEY DONT WANT TO BE SEEN COULD IT BE TRUTH TO UNANSWERED QUESTIONS ONE WILL NEVER KNOW

some of the bible was never included because the church said it was "too Pagan"
Namely the Gospel according to Mary Magdeline, among others......

its all in what the individual believes I believe cain is here right now and he is starting the apocalypse but that is my belief if you dont believe it so be it

the whoile idea of caine as a vampire has absolutely NO historical basis outside of white wolf game systems.....
white wolf used existing mythologhies....and warped them for beneficial use in their game vampire the masquerade.....they are fairly upfront in the forwards of these books that what you are reading is FICTION.....
and yes I did play the rpg....but I try to remember there is a separation between the game and actual history...
not trying to be a dick here....just getting sick of game material continually being referred to as historical fact
such as...Book of nod...any clanbooks...
or any other books by white wolf games....or black dog distributing...they are the same company...

ohh

Good Point, Daermon, thank you.

You know what guys, if you would take time in reading the Bible..I mean the BIBLE...In Genesis (I think) there's the part there that Cain was MARKED and people will chase him and he will HIDE his face from the sun..and SOME people even Bible scholars have taken this verse LITERALLY..some claim he's the first vampire..I dunno what you think...though this is interesting.

in a way the book thing bible is all myths
and whos to say cain wont return?
no-one really knows
its not impossible is it?

it differs..everyone has a different comment.

some people have closed minds
lol

That would be a reason too! hehe!

yepzz
lol

Yes he could return but he always does it for no more than 5 days and it is quick

Maybe he's back for good this time...

Nice fictional theory :)

back for good?
explain?

Maybe Cain inhabits bodies of his own Blood line. And lays dorant till awakened..

really
so what if its just his spirit what happends then?

A gathering of the 12 houses and a bathing of the vessel in the combined blood of the 12 houses.

what happends there?

The Cain Would rule over the houses. Like Before the Betrail.

Very intresting.... I will have to check that out and come back..... But nothing more is written about cain after the curse......

Only in the Bible is nothing written. I alot of folk lore (THAT WAS AROUND BEFORE WHITEWOLF GAME) shows him with Lilith and them sireing children together. Check it out. It's very nice reading..

White wolf is a joke. I beleive that certain things were left out of the bible for one reason or another and some things in the bible are totally fiction, Im not saying that the bible is just a book but there are gaps and holes in the story, show me a bible from over a thousand years ago and look at the differences between that one and todays bible, as far as Cain goes he was probably a real person but like Vlad Dracula's story it was miscontrued. Now, as for '"real" vampires, IN MY OPINION they like me are just people who like to drink blood for different purposes, or psychic vampires feed off of others life energy, and as far as being immortal, I beleive in reincarnation, I myself know that I have had past lives and I have been vampyric in most of them, in that sense we are immortal, but living for hundreds of years in the same body is rubbish. These are MY OPINIONS so dont tell me that I am wrong, dont get me wrong, elaborate on what I have written but dont hate.

I hate to be the bringer of bad news, thats out of a game called Vampire the Masquerade. The whole Cain thing was an elaboret story created by White Wolf for a plot of a Game that was successful enough to cause large amount of people to become fakes, loose reality, and some Conditioned to loose track of what the condition really is.

Its a sad thing when people belive that stuff. If you wish to believe Cain, the first to Sin, to awaken, then believe it, me personally, I know the truth, and rather live my life knowing whats real, and whats a game.

- Sin (VII)

it seems you have taken alot of time to concentrate on this, i commend you for your efforts, however i doubt your hypothisis.

Who mine of Aleks?

You all keep referring to the bible. Understandable. But, You also have to remember that the bible was written over thousands and thousands of years ago. What if one of the monks who was copying the bible by hand, just happened to forget that small section that would change everything? The bible has changed so much since the first one IF there ever was a first one. To me, the bible is just a book. JUST A BOOK. I'm sorry if any of you feel otherwise.

Also, The White Wolf game thing? I'm not going to say anything on that.... I don't know the plot line or whatever so its not my place to doubt that or what have you, but... its just a game.

wow some people on here have CLOSED MINDS
look if u dont blieve fine
but dont ruin it for some people who might believe
with me i have an open mind and i donno what to believe thats why i ask questions to find out
get the facts!!!

that sounds interesting.

it is leah

interesting thought, but, i'm with Gorey on this one...

hey people believe different things
its known

Abel was slain by his brother Cain as an ultimate sacrifice to God. Abel was the better brother and brought God many gifts, so in jealousy, he killed his brother to please God.

God sent Michael (the archangel) to Cain and told Cain that his punishment would be to spend eternity in darkness, underground, where he was to only eat of what the underground provided. Cain feasted upon insects, and drank his own blood. (This would make him the very first vampire...) He was then to marry the woman that was marked of the Devil (the 666 on her neck..) The one we all know as Lilith. This marriage would provide Cain's release from the earth. They bore children, and yes, this is part of most of our ancestry.

Translations of our history have been very much mixed up, and who's to say if any of it is true, but it's always a starting point and a good foundation for the answerless.

I believe Cain won't return... because he's already here.

anytime perhanps?

Stormie, I'll take a tiny observation I made while reading your article, Apparently also Cain was prone to feeling lonely & needed love & to love as well.

Which still makes him very human, no?

Precisely my point...

And we as Kin don't have this feeling. If we Don't why are we here now at VR. We talk make friends and even find Love. So, that means we all are a little Human. We want to learn why we have this hunger and wanting of knowlege.

i suppose its possible. but i doubt it

from what i understand... he is alive along with lillith...

Yes Lilith bathed Cain in the power of blood. Thus empowering him. There are refferences of lilith in Sodom & Gomorrah, and at the Tower of Babbel. The Jewish Tombs have the stories.. Look for them,

well see the thing is he can come back but there are only two that can bring him back and those two are his two oldest children. I know this because I have studied all of this all of my life.

Do we know if the chidren are here on Rave. Do they know who they are after this long of a time. This is what I'm getting at. I'm looking for them. I'm gathering Info on them. I'd like to talk to you and compare notes. I know it's a Boy and a Girl.

one of them is on the rave the other isn't I know them both

No he cannot return cause he never left. Scince it said that he must wonder in vain around and who ever killed him will basically suffer in seven fold no one has. so he might just be wondering around..

♥,
mary::

another thing to think about..the catholic church no ofense but they have many things hidded they even had the power once to change the bible so he might be around and they are keeping it a secret.

&earts;,
mary::

In reality (not offence Aleks) but how many people care?

Don't want to be offensive or rude but more time passes more I don't believe the bible.The church has a lot of truth hidden,if that's the truth after all,...then why we aren't allowed to know it?

Also anyone can claim to be Caine,I mean I can say I'm the re-incarnation of Cleopatra -_-

interesting post its good to see that ppl actually know about cain

Nice story but just a story!
White Wolf has done a good job adapting biblical legends in creating the world of Masquarade! So what about the non christian people?
Should they accept the origin from Cain or even the existence of Cain?

Interesting theory

Very true Nightwolf, White Wolf really did a wonderful job with that piece of storytelling!

*shrugs*

I said that earlier in the post. Indeed it was a great story made by white wolf. Actually, too good if I should say so. So many people are lost to its ideas and such, that its loosing its orginally flavor and becoming annoyine.

damn that is interesting but i wouldn't know...

but yet what most peopel don't know is that there really was a Cain and Lillith it's just you have to look in all the right places. look into the Apacrafa and you will see.

The stories may all just be stories, but isn't all information? If I told a person, that told another person, that told another person what happened to me last weekend, the story may change a little, but the people are still real, even if the names change a little..

look to the people with closed minds here
is it possible that this game thing could have taken a legand they thought no-one knew about n put it in their game
when only afew did know about it?
can u at least consider that?

I have said this once I've said this a thousand times.. I'm not refering to White Wolf.. I'm going by things found in the history of sin. Not the bible. Not this.. RPGers dream.. Everyone is so, Into this Freaking Video game you can't see that Nowwhere did I refer to the Freaking Game.. (No Offince to you but, You don't look at and embrace what I'm saying your blinded be a Freaking Video Game..

iv never even heard of the vidio game till this thread
n even i knew the legand

I agree Alek. It is where these people got the ideas for books, bibles, and games. We are talking REAL LIFE HERE.

Forgive the uneducated for they are just ignorant, not stupid.

most vampire know the storys anyways
even if they just heard it
it sounds familiar

I dont know maybe but i dont really think so

Thank you Stormi and Angel4blood. I might get hate mail. But I trying to see what everyone has to say but this Game is overshodowing this conversation. Like the people here don't want to learn Just to hang out. * Biteing His Tounge. * All I ask is read learn and then tell me what you think.

I think you're taking it too seriously ;)

Well It's like Food and water to you. Most here are RPGers. I've met maybe 15 people that can be true Vampires be it lifestyle of kin. Then I get people telling me Huhhh it's a Video Game.. Damn I was one of the story Line people for the Freaking Game. I know What is out there. The Catholic Churches Valts Under the Vatican can prove most of what I claim.

Perhaps we are.

Sometimes it's just a serious matter to inform people of their ancestry so they know the truth. [Or give them another point of view of what COULD be the truth.] ;)

It is fate for some people to inform others of viewpoints and to teach minds to open. We are called messengers. Even if you don't believe, at least you know.

Stormie Thanks, I see wisdom here. If anyone is willing to know what I've learned you can messenge me. I'm just going to sit in the shadow like I do.

Thanks for coming out to tell us Alek :)

The Cain and Able Personage is that of Christian Belief and of the Old Testiment. I personally Do not beleive Cain would rise. If he was, he wouldn't be in any form we would know, he would become the personage of his own sins.

As for trying to kick this Cain thing over the game of Vampire the Masquerade, I suggest you find more then just stuff out of the bible. For everyone has, at one point, heard the story of Cain and Able.

Also if anyone has read the book of Nod, and believe it, turn the book around and look at the back. Somewhere in the lower conor should say White Wolf Studios.

I'm not closed minded, but when it comes down to study of Occult, one learns something, not to always go by just one passage out of a book. Even if stories do hold a bit of truth at one point, some times it will always lead to the one point of truth, that Cain isn't a vampire and the story was made by a massive game studio for storyline purposes.

Also, there wouldn't be anyone of pure blood left alive from the biblical times. Even Cain would die, the great flood and even age. Able died, Eve died, Adam died. I doubt Cain would live, if his parents didn't live then he wouldn't of. Curse or no Curse, maybe after about two to three thousand years, he would pass on. Most everyone after Cain and Able lived to be about, what, 6 to 7 hundred years old? Only person who didn't die was Enoch, and he was brought into Heaven by God Personally. (I believe this is what I remember reading).

So, the whole possibility of Cain being alive is bs. Everyone can go about thinking so, but until someone gives me a lagitament link to something that tells another story of Cain from a non Christian backing, seeing that, if Cain was to be then there will be more on it then some passage of him being cursed out of some out dated peice of material or some gamers book, then I will take this thread with a bit more seriousness.

Until then, have fun trying to prove me wrong.

- Sin (VII)

even if he was alive for many years the flod had only moses family as survivors everything ealse was killed.
right on the bible only moses and his family survived.

♥,
mary::

Two of Moses Children married Cainites. So the line would live on. Read you stuff carfully. And Book of Nod is a joke. Read the Dead sea Scrolls and you will find your answers.

I would like to read those, actually. Yes the book of Nods is a joke and the fact that people still consider it as an actual source of true vampyrism. Sorry for being aggressive, but thats how I am when it comes down to stuff like this. Sorry the Cain issue has been a burning one for some time, something I looked into when I first awakened, trying to find some realism to the story.

Yet, after finding most info was from those obssessed with the Vampire game, and being something that the condition isn't.

Eventually I kind of given up on studying anything regarding vampirism of old and trying to find the roots of the condition. It only leads to the same place, speculations of something the might have or not have been.

- Sin (VII)

look i just want to say sorry if iv been rude just i hate being wrong so i wont stop till im right
n who knows about cain really?
its anything u want it to be

i have question why do youthink all start with the bible
i think all begiinning along time ago before
do some investigation and you will find the real way ;)

And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden

IE-Cain didn't hide his face from the sun, but from God...which give the fear of crucifixes a lot more weight...but I
m just the bartender

The sun was miss translated it was heavanly light. Not the sun..

ok alek..give us a source that can actually be checked...
the vatican does not EVER open it's vaults to civilians...most high ranking bishops will never see the inside of those vaults....
so you can't try to tell me you know whats in them...
you get angered by continued pointing to the game system....and yet what are your sources....where did you find them....
what books, what websites...if you want this taken seriously you need to offer these things for verification by others

you can look in the Apacrafa it goes into Cain and Lilltihs relationship

i am going to have to agree with OneFinalGravenKiss

he could; but until then I am here.

Daermon- Good point. Where re your sources and can we have a look.

Alek- Now your seeing my point about vampires and video games.... a lot are merged together!

I agree with Daermon on this. You need to give a link with the proof, other then just the Dead Sea scrolls.

interesting, the sad thing is i dont beiv in anythng the bible says.....

interesting thoery, it'd be kewl if he did return

but see thats the thing though noone really knows and thats what makes it really possable and who knows maybe he is here just not showing his self tell the time is right

i cant say my opinoin i have a opinioin abut the bible

can i just say
what if he doesnt know who he is really?
what if he is denying his true self?

cAIN HAS NEVER GONE AWAY

well could he have forgoten who he really is?

maybe you never know

like maybe he could have been reincarnated (or how ever u spell it) n the people who were claiming to b cain got woken n found his spirit in them
n the person with cain spirit just hasnt woken up

if that makes any sence
lol

well no-one really knows
unless he comes back tomorro lol

well he hasn't forgoten who he is and yes he will return. when it is time for him to come back to this world

i thought he never left

He does within the screenplay in which I am writing.

really Fallen im interested

Cain was actually cursed by god to roam with the creatures of the earth, even though he was forgiven. The curse was a result of taking life that did not belong to him. But the bible has been chnged often times and some stories have been cut off/ or removed all together. I do think Cain can and probably has returned briefly.

when a Vampire dyes it's only it's body that dyes not it's soul. It's soul just comes back with the same memorys of most of it's other lives that he/she has had in the past, also known as past lives.

Yeah i heard he is still alive with lilith. Like that one girl said. you should talk to bloodsheen about it, he knows a lot about cain and lilith. And I'm not talking about the game either.

I am rather pleased to see referance to Cain on this forum. It assures me that there are in fact real vampires here, not just egotistical sci-fi enthusiasts. As for the topic at hand, I happen to know that two of Cains bloodlines are currently incarneted in this realm. As for Cains return, who know's, if we're lucky, he just might make a few appearences.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.