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Vampires in the Bible??
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vampricdemon
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05:20:04 Jan 01 2006
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I found this verse in the bible..sounds like a description of vampires to me...

Proverbs 30;14

There is a generation whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

i would love to hear your thoughts on this.




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Kabal
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05:24:27 Jan 01 2006
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The church would say your false in showing this, I say you go for it



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DarkAngelDevina
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05:25:04 Jan 01 2006
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Very interesting to say the least I too would have to say that it sound exactly like a description of one to me..But then again who truly knows?


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vampricdemon
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05:34:29 Jan 01 2006
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i dont know for sure that it was or is , but it sounds like one to me.



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VixenDWT
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05:43:31 Jan 01 2006
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Was there more to this Proverb?
Alittle more information would be appreciated.

Suggestive, perhaps but without more information of surrounding proverbs or the complete passage, I would not comment.

__
Vix



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DarkAngelDevina
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05:47:21 Jan 01 2006
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yes it does and the bible speaks of so many things that when interpreted can have so much meaning its not even funny at all.
I have read a great deal of the bible and it is a very interesting book to say the least..Revalations brings chills to my spine even as I read it now because of the things it talks of are coming forth in our world in our time in the today.
But I am far from being a bible thumper by any means..
I am very much pagan but I feel that if one has answers they can find them in the bible..My great grandmother was a very devoted christian and she would always tell me to go to my bible for the answers I searched for to take it in my hands by the binding ask my question and allow it to fall open where it did to read the chapters on both pages and the answer would be there.. So even today if something is troubling me plauging my mind or soul I go to my bible and find the answers therein..



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vampricdemon
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06:04:53 Jan 01 2006
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her is a link to the site.

http://online-bible-study.net./webster-online-bible/proverbs/30/



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Frankie069
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06:16:52 Jan 01 2006
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Revelations is in fact amazing. And it is coming true.. It started not that long ago. Its trying to interpret the ending that is the hardest.... I will have to look up that link that was posted though. I never heard of that and it sounds interesting..



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DarkAngelDevina
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06:24:20 Jan 01 2006
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Yes it does and i too will be looking at it as well.. And Frankie dear that is so so true..I find it very hard to interprete but the first tells of the wars in the mid east and about the not being able to tell the changing of the seasons, and then even about the earth opening up and swallowing itself with all the earthquakes and the storms and the hurricanes here it all is told and all is here.



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CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs
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06:31:53 Jan 01 2006
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that sounds like a vampire to me as well, but I need to know the verses that are before and after it. Now I could go and get one of my bibles out and read it myself but I am to lazy to do that right now. The bible is a complicated book that constantly contradicts itself, and has so many different meanings.



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Frankie069
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06:33:41 Jan 01 2006
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This is where the Bibles interpretation is difficult, hence a code it was written in. I try and look things up all the time.. MY ass wants to be prepared for anything. You know, I am not religious in the sense that I follow a specific religion, but spirituality is important to me. All of this is written in many books not just that bible that was written as I said over a 1000 years after the death of christ. To me it was written by prophets no different than nostradamus or Cayce...



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DarkAngelDevina
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06:38:08 Jan 01 2006
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very nice tabby and frankie awesomely said



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CuRsEdToDaRkNeSs
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07:01:55 Jan 01 2006
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Thank you thank you.. lol.



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psycobloodpire
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07:32:25 Jan 01 2006
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i would say that sounds like a vampire to me with the way churches look at it they would try to say it was something else all together when i acually questioned things in it when i was younger they would say that isnt what they meant if its there in black and white and they dont want to give you a straight answer you have to wonder



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EmeraldKiss
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07:36:25 Jan 01 2006
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My opinion: the bible can be interpretted in many ways. Go with your gut instincts.



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nobodysfallenangel
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08:32:04 Jan 01 2006
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I agree with the person on top but it does sound like it to me mmm*bites arm*~NFA



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BadAngelsPetDragon
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10:00:28 Jan 01 2006
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according to my "famliy" we are one of the signs after the world comes to and end but i think its crap we are the end of the world
smiles to myself



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deathnitegrl
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10:59:46 Jan 01 2006
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No I disagree.

I believe it's more for the greedy people who are hungry of power.



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Batchyld
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11:31:55 Jan 01 2006
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hmm very interesting verse could be interpreted many ways .Although some parts of me want to say yes its a vampire,i think i am gonna go with deathnites interpretation,kinda makes more sense if you really think about it.

=)



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BelleHaine
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11:38:20 Jan 01 2006
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interesting subject...which brings my mind to liillith



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Batchyld
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11:40:38 Jan 01 2006
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Why Lillith Jessica? :)



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DarkVampiress
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12:20:49 Jan 01 2006
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It does sound alot like a vampire, yet a warewolf or close to it.



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DarkAngelDevina
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12:21:33 Jan 01 2006
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I would have to agree it does sound like a power struggler lol but hey I guess it just proves it can and will always be interpreted by one way or another in many forms.

Yes Jessica why lilith?



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shadowbehindthemoon
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13:25:18 Jan 01 2006
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What else could it be there really is no other creature it could possibly be. It sounds to me that apparently there were/are vampires then and now. I really don't think it could mean anything else. You could even ask a non believer about this topic and they would say the same



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DarkAngelDevina
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13:41:28 Jan 01 2006
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well put shadow well put



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Frankie069
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16:00:09 Jan 01 2006
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I apologize for this being so long, but above someone had said they wanted to see the full proverb so here it is...

30:1
The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,

30:2
Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man.

30:3
I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.

30:4
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

30:6
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

30:7
Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die:

30:8
Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:

30:9
Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

30:10
Accuse not a servant unto his master, lest he curse thee, and thou be found guilty.

30:11
There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.

30:12
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

30:13
There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.

30:14
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

30:15
The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:

30:16
The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.

30:17
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.

30:18
There be three things which are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I know not:

30:19
The way of an eagle in the air; the way of a serpent upon a rock; the way of a ship in the midst of the sea; and the way of a man with a maid.

30:20
Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.

30:21
For three things the earth is disquieted, and for four which it cannot bear:

30:22
For a servant when he reigneth; and a fool when he is filled with meat;

30:23
For an odious woman when she is married; and an handmaid that is heir to her mistress.

30:24
There be four things which are little upon the earth, but they are exceeding wise:

30:25
The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer;

30:26
The conies are but a feeble folk, yet make they their houses in the rocks;

30:27
The locusts have no king, yet go they forth all of them by bands;

30:28
The spider taketh hold with her hands, and is in kings' palaces.

30:29
There be three things which go well, yea, four are comely in going:

30:30
A lion which is strongest among beasts, and turneth not away for any;

30:31
A greyhound; an he goat also; and a king, against whom there is no rising up.

30:32
If thou hast done foolishly in lifting up thyself, or if thou hast thought evil, lay thine hand upon thy mouth.

30:33
Surely the churning of milk bringeth forth butter, and the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood: so the forcing of wrath bringeth forth strife.



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vampricdemon
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19:12:00 Jan 01 2006
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dng and batchyld you both could very well be right about it but then again it does make you stop and think *what if*



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WhisperxMyxDeath
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19:56:48 Jan 01 2006
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Ahaha, That is pathetic!
Do they honstly think, that they can hide this kind of stuff from us?
Yes, it sounds like Vampires to me.
Exactally like them.



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ZuberiUrbi
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20:06:27 Jan 01 2006
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well i have never read the bible..so i cant say i know the full extend of the apth your talking about (thanks for providing the link though)
and yes..as we know how vampyres were portrayed to be..it very well could be vampyres...but think about this...there have been other creatures in myth and history that could be described like vampyres that are not vampyres....
because it talks not just about sharp upper teeth but sharp lower teeth as well...



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Batchyld
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20:23:29 Jan 01 2006
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for all we know it could be lycan cause they are one of the few darklings talked about who had both sharp upper and lower teeth ;) yup makes one think what if exactly ;)



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Siobhan
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20:27:13 Jan 01 2006
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It could also be referring to those who would use their fellow man for thier own ends without regard to the damage they inflict upon them.

The Bible is wide open for interpretation, not only because of the heavy symbolism that is used but also most translations are from the Hebrew, which itself was translated from the Ancient Greek. Much is lost and/or convoluted in those translations of translations.



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articwolfdemon
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20:32:17 Jan 01 2006
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told u....vampires, lycans, dragons always exested...they mostly died off tho....theres PROOF that dragons exested...dont belive me messege me and i'll prove it.



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Lucifersblackroses
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20:56:11 Jan 01 2006
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i would like to think that the bible contains some truth and it would be wonderful if there was writen proof of our race. however the concequences would be harsh upon our life style. We would most likely plunge into a modern time Dark Age. At least the cant hang us from the gallows or anything



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Opilia
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20:58:12 Jan 01 2006
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Good information... the bible was written in metaphors in a lot of cases. Not too sure if this is the case, but it's enough to make you think.



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deathnitegrl
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20:59:42 Jan 01 2006
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The bible is a whole metaphor(a figure of speech in which an expression is used to refer to something that it does not literally denote in order to suggest a similarity)
even tough we can be taught with it's interprations(in my country we are taught the Roman chatolic religion in every school) I still believe it's all a matter of personal perspectives.

However don't think that am against your tought vampiric demon,it's just that my tought is different.

None of us is wrong,none of us is right these are all things that have to do with believes or personal opinions.

Infact I don't think that your tought is wrong,it's just that I interpret that verse in another way,I don't ignore your tought either, it's just that I believe it's more another thing:)



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Frankie069
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21:05:55 Jan 01 2006
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The Bible, originally written in Aramaic has lost alot in translation. I do alot of reading and I can honestly tell you, that no matter what you might read pertaining to an organized religion, is all man made and no matter how you look at it, Vampires will always be considered Evil people. Vampires are connected to death, to satanism, the occult and anything negative you can think of.. There is no middle man to find the truth.. There is one side vs, the other, has been since the beginning of time. You can only know your truth and what you feel about yourself. I personally find this a very peaceful place. There are just to many interpretations of the Bible to find the truth.. as I said, find it within..



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vampricdemon
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21:16:15 Jan 01 2006
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DNG....I'm glad you brought this up , and i know every ones thoughts and interpretations are different , how ever i didn't post this to offend nor to make anyone mad , i did post it because i am interested in hearing what others thoughts on the matter.

thank you everyone for for sharing your thoughts.



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Liderc1986
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21:24:37 Jan 01 2006
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i watched a thing on tv talkin bout how dragons were a big part of the bible and how there is a church divoted to dragons being in the bible and who knows what else it could have in there



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VladVoivode
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23:00:47 Jan 01 2006
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The term vampyre is but one of many. Someone mentioned Lycans as well. I do not of which Proverbs speaks but there are additional passages:

"For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38,39, NKJV).

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Ephesians 6:12, NKJV). "

"...having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. (Colossians 2:14-15, NKJV). "

NOW, here is something else for you to think on - instead of Vampyres we have the nine choirs of Angels from the Bible ( credit for the explanations go to http://www.catholic.org/saints/anglchoi.php)

The hierarchy of Angels from the Highest to Lowest follows:

From CatholicOnline:

Seraphim
These are the highest order or choir of angels. They are the angels who are attendants or guardians before God's throne. They praise God, calling, "Holy Holy Holy is the Lord of Hosts". the only Bible reference is Isaiah 6:1-7. One of them touched Isaiah's lips with a live coal from the altar, cleansing him from sin. Seraphim have six wings, two cover their faces, two cover their feet, and two are for flying.


Cherubim
Cherubim rank after the seraphim and are the second highest in the nine hierarchies or choirs of angels. The Old Testament does not reveal any evidence that the Jews considered them as intercessors or helpers of God. They were closely linked in God's glory. They are manlike in appearance and double-winged and were guardians of God's glory. They symbolized then, God's power and mobility. In the New Testament, they are alluded to as celestial attendants in the Apocalypse (Rv 4-6). Catholic tradition describes them as angels who have an intimate knowledge of God and continually praise Him.


Thrones
Thrones are the Angels of pure Humility, Peace and Submisssion. They reside in the area of the cosmos where material form begins to take shape. The lower Choir of Angels need the Thrones to access God.


Dominions
Dominions are Angels of Leadership. They regulate the duties of the angels, making known the commands of God.


Virtues
Virtues are known as the Spirits of Motion and control the elements. They are sometimes referred to as "the shining ones." They govern all nature. They have control over seasons, stars, moon; even the sun is subject to their command. They are also in charge of miracles and provide courage, grace, and valor.


Powers
Powers are Warrior Angels against evil defending the cosmos and humans. They are known as potentates. They fight against evil spirits who attempt to wreak chaos through human beings. The chief is said to be either Samael or Camael, both angels of darkness.


Archangels
Archangels are generally taken to mean "chief or leading angel" ( Jude 9; 1 Thes 4:16), they are the most frequently mentioned throughout the Bible. They may be of this or other hierarchies as St. Michael Archangel, who is a princely Seraph. The Archangels have a unique role as God's messenger to the people at critical times in history and salvation (Tb 12:6, 15; Jn 5:4; Rv 12:7-9) as in The Annunciation and Apocalypse. A feast day celebrating the Archangels Michael, Gabriel and Raphael is celebrated throughout the Church Sep 29. A special part of the Byzantine Liturgy invokes the "Cherubic Hymn" which celebrates these archangels and the guardian angels particularly. Of special significance is St. Michael as he has been invoked as patron and protector by the Church from the time of the Apostles. The Eastern Rite and many others place him over all the angels, as Prince of the Seraphim. He is described as the "chief of princes" and as the leader of the forces of heaven in their triumph over Satan and his followers. The angel Gabriel first appeared in the Old Testament in the prophesies of Daniel, he announced the prophecy of 70 weeks (Dn 9:21-27). He appeared to Zechariah to announce the birth of St. John the Baptist (Lk 1:11). It was also Gabriel which proclaimed the Annunciation of Mary to be the mother of our Lord and Saviour. (Lk 1:26) The angel Raphael first appeared in the book of Tobit (Tobias)Tb 3:25, 5:5-28, 6-12). He announces "I am the Angel Raphael, one of the seven who stand before the throne of God." (Tb 12:15)


Principalities
In the New Testament Principalities refers to one type of spiritual (metaphysical) being which are now quite hostile to God and human beings. (Rom 8:38; 1 Cor 15:24; Eph 1:21; 3:10; 6:12; Col 1:16; 2:10, 15) Along with the principalities are the powers (Rom 8:38; 1 Cor 15:24; Eph 1:21; 1 Pt 3:22; 2 Thes 1:7); and cosmological powers (1 Cor 15:24; Eph 1:21; 3:10; Col 2:15);Dominions (Eph 1:21; Col 1:16) and thrones (Col1:16). The clarity of the New Testament witness helps see that these beings were created through Christ and for Him (Col 1:16). Given their hostility to God and humans due to sin, Christ's ultimate rule over them (ibid) expresses the reign of the Lord over all in the cosmos. This is the Lordship of Christ, which reveals God's tremendous salvation in conquering sin and death at the cross, and now takes place in the Church. (Eph 3:10)


Angels
These angels are closest to the material world and human begins. They deliver the prayers to God and God's answers and other messages to humans. Angels have the capacity to access any and all other Angels at any time. They are the most caring and socius to assist those who ask for help.

Thye following notes are mine:

Note that few of the Choirs have direct dealing with humans. Seraphim, of which St. Michael the Archangel is a part are in fact so powerful and their light so intense we learn from the Kaballah that other celestial - and infernal beings cannot bear to look upon them.

Cherubim are NOT the chubby little beings on Renaissance cathedral frescoes but again, beings of immense power who guard Eden with swords of flame.

The Pricipalities and Powers are believed by some ancient Christian doctrine to be hostile to humans and would wreak havoc among them except that Christ rules them.

This discussion of Angels is NOT tangential. It is very possible that the Vampyre, being CORPOREAL, is the reflection of these middle choirs.

The beings with the sword teeth seeking to rend the needy and poor would not be the Vampyre for two reasons: Firstly, the Vampyre has nothing to gain by destroying the needy and poor. The power of the Vampyre would decimate in short time such a population.

Secondly, sword teeth also refers to the greed and evil of the pharisees and the proud. All the books of the Bible constantly refer to the dangers of those who are slaveholders whether through direct means or through class. This decidedly Marxist view seems true at least to me.

A great post and one that demands further study.










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Frankie069
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23:21:56 Jan 01 2006
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Great post. I have always loved Michael.. He is a powerful force not to be reckoned with. He is a rebel angel. To me, if Michael were to be brought back today, you would find him at a Crue concert. I just bought my son who is leaving for the army in 2 weeks some saint michael medals to take with him... The Leader of War..



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xtroublex
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Vampires in the Bible. Interesting. Although very controversial.

Generally I think it's a description of Vampires. But it depends where the text carrys on to.



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rabdos
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sounds like it might be describing a vampire but could it be talking about demons or somethig else?



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LadyRavenBlack
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00:08:33 Jan 02 2006
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Well if the bible says theres vampyres then it MUST be true LMAO JK. Honestly though it does sound like a perfect description of a vampire.



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domangelus
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The Bible does not contradict itself. It reveals a very consistent message. People read different meanings into it because the majority do not know the rules of biblical interpretation. First there is CONTEXT...how the verse is used within the chapter and specific book. Then there's the historical narratives, historical context, the original languages, and key words. The BOOK and it's MESSAGE is not inconsistent, it only appears that way because a lot of people read it from their own various perspectives. If anyone wishes to point out a few inconsistencies, I would be more than happy to go over them with you.



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DarknessBound
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01:20:38 Jan 02 2006
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In some movies that I have seen--- mind you this is hollywood---I have seen them portray Judas as a vampire, for the sins he commited against Jesus, and for committing suicide for his betrayal to the son of god.
I forgot which movie this was, but it was a vampire movie where they used passages and refrences from the bible.
There have been other movies as well where they use bible refrences, and all somehow end taking place within a church on a scene or something of the sort...I think this is all Hollywood, but it is something you can think upon ;)
It always ends up being Judas, the one who betrayed Jesus, the son of God.



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domangelus
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01:23:58 Jan 02 2006
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Proverbs 30:14 - is referring to a generation that shall oppress the poor with malice. Where the wealthy will take from the poor in order not to spent or use up their own wealth. It is talking about those who are never content with what they are given or earned.



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Siobhan
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To be able to make that assertion you would have to be able to read Herbrew and Ancient Greek. Any errors in translation must be pointed out in the languages in which the Bible was written.

It is well-known the Latin Vulgate translated from the Ancient and Herbrew by St. Jerome was the accepted translation until the King James version. However, it is interesting to note the KJ version contains the EXACT SAME TRANSLATIONAL ERRORS as St. Jerome's translation.

Biblical scholars, when doing textual criticism, conduct such criticism within the parameters of the original language of the books of the Bible.

The Bible is a collection of books - not one single narrative, ie. the Book of Exodus - and the idea of so-called "key words" has only just recently surfaced or rather became wildly popular, with the fictional work of author Dan Brown. He himself has been widely quoted as stating that the "DaVinci Code" and "Angels and Demons" are works of fiction. Also Gnosticism is an underlying current in Brown's work. There is nothing original there. Gnostics believe that there is some secret key - frequently called the "Hiram Key" which grants the adept access to full comprehension of God. The Bible itself refutes this nefarious claim in the account of Pentecost in which the Disciples were given the fullness of the Faith.

One last point, it has been widely speculated and confirmed by at least a few reports, that Dan Brown himself holds marked anti-Catholic prejudices.



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domangelus
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01:39:40 Jan 02 2006
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A more logical basis for a "biblical" existence of vampires can be found in the apocryphal Book of Enoch. The Book of Enoch picks up from Genesis chapter 1, verses 1-4.

The Book of Enoch reveals that vampires could have originated from the offspring of the union between the Watchers (Fallen Angels) and human women. When the Children of the Watchers had consumed all of the food available, they turned to mankind and began to eat their flesh and drink their blood.

Books that were deliberately left out from the bible are called APOCRYPHA.
Only chosen priesthood and initiates had access to it.
The "Book of Enoch" was declared apocryphal, and like the Book of Seth, and other ancient manuscripts, was denied entrance into the "approved" version of the original Bible by the NiceneCouncil of 325 A.D. In the canonization criteria, God and his salvation message have to be the central theme. The Book of Enoch mainly emphasized upon the Fallen Watchers and their judgements.
In this book Enoch, son of Jared, speaks of the angels called "Watchers" appointed to protect human kind.
However, while watching over human beings, they fell in love with earthly women, and decided to abandon haven, and join them on Earth and live with them.
From this love they had children. Angels taught their wives and children magic and other skills, previously unknown to humans.
But...
These children were not exactly human...

as you can see in these quotes from "The Book of Enoch" .

Chapter 7

13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.

Chapter 10

13 To Gabriel also the Lord said, Go to the biters, to the reprobates, to the children of fornication; and destroy the children of fornication, the offspring of the Watchers, from among men; bring them forth, and excite them one against another. Let them perish by mutual slaughter; for length of days shall not be theirs.

Chapter 15

10 They shall cause lamentation. No food shall they eat; and they shall be thirsty; they shall be concealed, and shall rise up against the sons of men, and against women; for they come forth during the days of slaughter and destruction.



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Nemesis2535
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02:04:28 Jan 02 2006
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The Movie was Dracula 2000
I do not believe Judas was turned into a vampire for what he did to Jesus. I am not sure if the scripture talks about vampires or not.....I do know the Bible mentions Dinasaurs( behemoths) in the book of Job which blows the "Dinosaurs Lived billions of years ago" out of the water. The Bible also mentions Unicorns and it does mention dragons but the only time I remember it mentioning dragons is when it is refering to the devil although I could be wrong..........



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Frankie069
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02:09:45 Jan 02 2006
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Well, once again the bible being written my man, may be the lords words, but like playing a game of telephone for 1400 years before the word gets written, so taken out of context. Obvioulsy Lillith was the first wife of adam.. I learned that from my mother. She was banished because Adam thought her to much his equal and Lillith wanted out of there as well. Well she is considered the first vampire, what I was surprised to read is that Cain, after being vanished met up with Lillith and together they had children. Lillith, Cain and their children were all considered vampires..



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Nemesis2535
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ok, this is the first I have heard about adam having a first wife before Eve. Where in the bible does it say Lilith was first?????
this is a new one on me



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domangelus
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02:22:55 Jan 02 2006
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Quote: "Obvioulsy Lillith was the first wife of adam.. "

Obviously??? There is no obvious or direct reference in the Bible to Lilith being such. Please clarify how it is made obvious.



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Frankie069
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02:23:06 Jan 02 2006
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I will find you the quotes that I am looking for.. This is all according to the Jews I might add... But is partly mentioned in the bible and transcribed, to be Lillith..

this is long..


In post-biblical Jewish literature, Lilith was named as Adam's first wife, created out of earth in the same way as he had created the first man. The pair immediately began to quarrel because Lilith refused to lie beneath Adam sexually; she saw no reason to since they had both been created from the same earth or dirt (Long, 1991; Matthews, 1992; Gottlieb, 1993). When Adam refused to compromise Lilith fled to the Red Sea to 'consort' with demons, according to most accounts, though this might be understood as the choice to live an independent life in which she could enjoy autonomy. Demetra George writes that she refused subjugation, and, as a wind spirit, flew away and resumed her ancient sexual practices by living at the Red Sea, or as many would interpret it, dwelling in a womb of power, of menstrual blood (George, 1992).

When Adam complained to God that she had left him, the story goes, God sent three angels,Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof 2to bring her back to the Garden of Eden. She refused. When the angels then threatened to drown her, she swore that she had been sent by God and that although her 'function' was to kill babies, she would spare any child protected by an amulet or plaque with her name on it if they let her go. The angels meted out drastic punishment. There are three versions of this punishment in the literature: 100 of her babies would die each night; she would be doomed to giving birth to children who were demons; or God would make her barren. All three options are equally frightening; this part of the legend was clearly constructed to illustrate the horrible fate which awaited women who did not obey their husbands.3 No doubt this extended to one's father or priest -- to any male who wanted to claim 'dominion' over the woman or women in his arena of control.



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Frankie069
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02:28:06 Jan 02 2006
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This one was written by a John Legget who is a great writer and researcher as well, I think so anyway..

Long as well..

I was sitting here at home looking through my collection of religious writings, and beliefs (it should be noted that when I say religious, I’m referring to ALL religions, not just Christianity) when I came across my personal favorite. This is (I believe it’s Jewish) of Lilith, the first wife of Adam before she was cast out into the world for a horribly unthinkable crime, which has since plagued humanity.

For the uninformed, a religious history lesson: As you all know, there was a Lilith Faire, which, of course, pissed off the likes of Rush Limbug and his crew because 1) It was an advancement in women's rights in music (the women’s rights thing pissed them off) and 2) it was named after a semi-biblically historic "Criminal". Now... in biblical history, Adam had a wife named Lilith. Little known fact is that Eve was not Adam's first and only wife, but rather Eve was the second wife, Lilith was the first.

Lilith was asked to leave paradise for committing an unimaginable act, an act so awful, so putrid that both Adam AND God could not forgive this horrible woman. Thus, Lilith was forced to walk the lands alone for all of her life. Myth has it that in her anger towards God, Lilith made a pact with Lucifer and she bore his human borne children (read as monsters in texts), releasing evil personage into the world and thus diluting the goodness of the children of Adam and Eve...We all know the story of Cain and Abel... well when Cain was banished by God for killing his bro, god sent him out into the world alone, but marked so that none of man will harm him... the individiuals God was protecting Cain from happened to be the children of Lilith... However, it is surmised that the children of Lilith and the children of Adam and Eve intermingled and had sex and thus populated the earth...

Once God realized how diluted the earth had become with a mixing of good and evil, God chose the last of the pure blood, Noah, to create his ark and God thus destroyed the earth in the attempt to undilute the world. The only problem was that Noah brought along his children and their wives who, of course, happened to be descendants of Lilith and nothing was accomplished in destroying the world and that is why evil still exists in this day and age, even though God destroyed the world with his great flood. Of course the only children Lilith gave birth to were women because women are the root of evil and the children that Adam and Eve gave birth to were all male... It keeps the blame of evil squarely on the women of the world...

Now, the only question that remains... what exactly was this horrible crime Lilith committed? Well, Lilith was a strong female whom Adam could not handle; she committed the crime (and I shit you not) of wanting to be in the driver’s seat during the act of sexual intercourse. Since God decreed that man shall rule the earth and not a woman and any show of power, even in the matters of lust, expressed by the woman was clear grounds for expulsion out of paradise. Basically, our girl Lilith got her ass thrown outta paradise for the crime of wanting to be on top during sex.



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Siobhan
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02:54:41 Jan 02 2006
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I must offer a Scriptural correction:

The Deuterocanonical books which have since gained the somewhat disparaging name of Apocryphal were not deliberately left out of the Bible when the fnal canon was decided upon with the Book of Revelation in the 5th Century. It was the protestant reformers who deliberately left out the Deuterocanonical books as supposedly heretical. However the earliest Church fathers considered them worthy of inclusion into the canon of the Bible. Also of note, these same reformers - Luther chief among them, added to certain books specifically St. Paul's Epistle to the Romans - the famous "faith alone verse" which Luther ADDED. Also, Luther sought to dismiss the Book of St. James precisely because it refutes the notion of Sola Fide (faith alone.)

It is a slippery slope when one discusses the canon of the Bible as it differs tremendously between Catholics/Orthodox Christians versus protestants.



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eviladam
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03:30:40 Jan 02 2006
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I don't think it's vampires, or anything with litteral sharp teeth, because so much of the bible is metaphor.

One prophesy I'm thinking of(and I have no clue of the pasage) says something about a great ram with for horns poining north west east and south. It said more or less that the ram would die and that four weaker rams each with a single horn would rise in its place. It's supposed to be a prophecy about Caesar and his succesors.



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Zani
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03:42:16 Jan 02 2006
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well- vampired have been around for ever- so, yes i think that it could very well be about vamps-



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deadlynightshade
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11:36:54 Jan 02 2006
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That sounds alot like a vampire. I'm not one to read the bible though



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ElyriaBloodshadow
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12:06:46 Jan 02 2006
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*looks at the posts left by Vlad, Siobhan and several others*

Wow, some really great information and very well researched and thought out replies, though I am afraid that at 7 am with my not having been to bed yet, I am not appreciating them to their fullest extent.

As for the comment that the bible is not contradictory...lets begin in the early chapters of genisis when God first "created man. male and female created he them" and then just a bit farther on we find poor Adam alone in the garden complaining to God of his loneliness and asking that God create a partner to give him company and help him to care for the garden God had created.

Now if both male and female were created together as is implied in the first verse mentioned, why then was Adam ALONE??? Don't tell me Eve was out shoe shopping.



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DarkAngelDevina
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13:32:24 Jan 02 2006
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great point my dear E great point indeed..

Awesome thread as well very informative



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VampyreHeart
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15:42:14 Jan 02 2006
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Indeed it is so...



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Nemesis2535
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I can see were you would read that as so but the whole verse is
27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them."
in the previous verse he is talking about creating the animals . so in 27 he says man is created in the image of God and the male and female he refers to are the animals. The Bible jumps around a lot so he might have meant both adam and eve and the animals because it goes into the next chapter explaining ouw he created man.



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UMBRAxDExVIR
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17:13:02 Jan 02 2006
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well I am more then happy about this thread for many yrs. I have felt the Bible had somethings on Vampires thank you for you thread. ok D.B. that movie was Dracula 2000.



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vampricqueen
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17:23:00 Jan 02 2006
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To dark vampires thing......it sounds more like a vampire...cause usually werewolfs what i reasearched is so be more of a brutal type not the ones to refer to swords......but yet it does sound like both species....



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BloodLustingEyes
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18:27:01 Jan 02 2006
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i know of the bible mentioning people, or demons that drank blood, but i'm not sure if they could be classified as vampires or not. as far the the teeth thing goes, again it could be demons



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DarkFaerie
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Well the bible says a lot of things. It could be anything really. But there is a small chance that it is a vampire.



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BloodLustingEyes
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very very true, but then i don't think it would even once be from a human. it would be more of a creature that was created. maybe something like a demon. say a type of fallen angel endoubed with different powers as a normal demon.



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Emaerald
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20:40:23 Jan 02 2006
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I lost count at 100 threads plus when I ran a forum search on the Bible + Vampires! Its amazing how it seems one of the most regularly talked about subjects :)



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Claw
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21:16:06 Jan 02 2006
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Haha i told my priest about this:P He just got angry :D I think you have a pint



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Claw
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21:16:17 Jan 02 2006
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Haha i told my priest about this:P He just got angry :D I think you have a point



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VixenDWT
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22:10:59 Jan 02 2006
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Thank you for the link, VampyricDemon.

And thank you to Frankie for putting up before and after the quote.

In consideration of the likelihood of a race of vampires being described, then yes, it is -remarkably- close if one was going for describing the major points of a vampire, and vaguely referencing them so the translation would come out into the public....

Yet, the thought of Lycans being mentioned also... well, it does come very close to them too.

The problem here is, both races species, Kindred or whatever name you choose to use, are both big-noted of the physical difference of their teeth. And also, they are noted for both being pack creatures ( Vampires : Havens/Houses; Lycans : Packs/Refuges )... So in this, consideration all possibilities. I would say it may be a mix or it may be another race altogether that none of us actually know about since - they do not exist- as in they are extinct.

Think about this little tangent.
Vampires are forever trying to prove some substantial link between themselves and the world.... Well, to me, personally, it's alittle too convienant if vampires are mentioned in the bible...


Doesn't it seem that way, rationally and objectively, to anyone else?

_____
Vix



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eviladam
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22:40:47 Jan 02 2006
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Another thing, would this be the King James version of the Holy Bible? My under standing is that a lot of things were changed from the original hebrew texts.



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vampricdemon
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22:41:46 Jan 02 2006
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WOW......i never expected this kind of response , it has been very interesting to read every ones thoughts on this,
so thank you all for sharing them.



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angelofdarkness1977
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23:09:51 Jan 02 2006
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it also says in the bible that drinking blood is a sin. so yes there is vampires, lol.. just like magic is real and so is dragons.. but they dont want you to know that. ive went to alot of churches to do my little studies. and they preach what they dont want pplk to know or to beleive in. like they say all the time. it isnt real. and if you start to beleive it then you just dont see it anymore.



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deathnitegrl
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Well I don't know others but my teachers never mentioned the word vampires in religious(Roman Chatolic) classes here vampires are a myth/a Hollywood creation.If someone did they would laugh at him in the face.

That's why I'll still stick with my idea.Anyway I haven't read the bible for ages now, since my believes are different from the ones I was taught.



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eviladam
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Theres also a rumor I saw some where years ago on the net that St. Christopher was actually a were wolf and thats why he is no longer considered a saint.



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JuliesOfSet
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very interesting. thanks for the info. down with the people that abuse power



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burningbridges
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it sounds like its a description of a vampire lol but then agin could just b sum really odd metaphor for evil lol



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UMBRAxDExVIR
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ok here we go. the vampire is one of the oldest things known to man before christianity and catholicism the vampire was worshiped as gods and demons alike from all corners of the globe since the dawn of time.

just my two cents

Ryu Noctem Aeternus



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ForbiddenTemptation
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01:12:50 Jan 03 2006
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The Bible can perdict many things, But go by your instincts,



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ThornyDreams
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01:27:10 Jan 03 2006
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It sounds like it, but my mother said they weren't speaking literally. Like people mouthing off. Hurting feelings. Whatever-ever-the-fuck else...

But I found this scripture:
{It's talking about if the dead is in any way able to help or to harm the living"

Eccl. (:6: "Their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."

Isa. 26:14: "They are dead, they will not live. Importent in death, they will not rise up."

But seeing as "Satan" can also do things differently than "God" says, maybe he found some sort of loop hole. As to black magic? I'm not for sure....



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ThornyDreams
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01:28:32 Jan 03 2006
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9:6:**

Impotent**



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vampsrock
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02:05:11 Jan 03 2006
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there were many gods and people alike that were vampiric and evil because they needed food or they just wanted to kill that way cause it was fast and easy at the time being cause there were plenty of people around to do that to and then it happens when people are just walking 1 person gets bit and noby cares they look at it 1 time and just walk away



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LadyDeidre
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02:33:20 Jan 03 2006
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Wow , very intersting subject. I am on the fence. I have enjoyed the read though.



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extaz1
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02:41:58 Jan 03 2006
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This does seem to describe vampires, however, alot of the verses in the bible are parables. Could this not mean someone who speaks false religion, or a greedy person who devours everything they can without leaving anything for anyone else. I'm not saying you are wrong or right. I just wanted to point out a different perspective



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TooManyTears
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02:48:34 Jan 03 2006
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This is purhapse the most intresting thread I've posted to so far...It does sound like a description of vampires to me...however to me..the bible can be somewhat cryptic at times..and I'm very scektical of a lot of things it contains....



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jabiluss
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03:29:47 Jan 03 2006
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wow i never noticed that....then agian i havnt read my bible in ages still, a very thought provokeing subject



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scionofrequiem
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08:28:55 Jan 03 2006
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There are a lot of things within the Bible and Tora that no one really reads into. This shows how people really study the bible. Most people focus on the aspect of the new testiments of Jesus, yet when one reads into the past aspects of the Bible and actually read into it all, they will find more out then they originally think the bible held within it.

Like Cain, there are people who believe Cain's Mark was black skin. Which in turn made the first black person. Yet if you read into the bible more you will come to realize this. The Bible only described those first created by the One God. Not about the people that came after them, not the people that came before Cain which is I remember right, his name ment something like "I have had a child with the help of the Lord" or something to that extent.

Cain was branded with a mark that made it so people of other nations would not slay Cain upon sight, so that the mark ment he was out casted from the sacred area of his birth.

So Cain was made to wander the land, were eventually he had found a home, a wife, a child and made a City known as Enoch, which was named after his Son, Who was then reported to be the only person never to die, but to be taken by God personally into heaven while living.

Yet there are many speculations about the old testiments and the writtings in which it was presented.

Also another little thing I bet many have not really looked into. That nice little bit in the ten commandments saying "Thou Shall Not Kill" its actually "Thou Shall Not Murder" which means, we have the moral right to defend ourselves from attacks and if the attacker dies do to us defending ourselve, then we aren't evil people or doomed to be damned for something that just happened while in defense of our own life.

- Sin



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Minsk
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09:47:44 Jan 03 2006
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It does appear to be a reasonable discription but then it does raise the question that surely the church would never agree that something like this would exist so maybe its a metaphor for another type of person who they believe is doing a "vampirec" act on something at that time.



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mykill
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14:01:58 Jan 03 2006
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well if you want to talk about vamprisimin the bible do not christ say "take this all of you and drink from it for this is my blood"
sounds like something a vampyre would say.



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deathnitegrl
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14:04:41 Jan 03 2006
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That's another metaphore tough.Cause it'said that the offer during the mass represents him.

He even said that we should eat the bread cause it's his body but it has nothig to do with cannibalism for example.



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Siobhan
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14:23:00 Jan 03 2006
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The Holy Eucharist is the oldest experience of Christian Worship as well as the most distinctive. Eucharist comes from the Greek word which means “thanksgiving.” In a particular sense, the word describes the most important form of the Church’s attitude toward all of life. The origin of the Eucharist is traced to the Last Supper at which Christ instructed His disciples to offer bread and wine in His memory. The Eucharist is the most distinctive event of Orthodox worship because in it the Church gathers to remember and celebrate the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ and, thereby, to participate in the mystery of Salvation.



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bonechiller
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14:40:52 Jan 03 2006
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well I love this subject and have been reading all the posts for a few days now not sure how to respond I am 28 now and found this same verse in the bible when I was 15 I was a very devoted christian at the time but as soon as I asked about this passage and asked about vampires I was kicked out of the church since then I have been kicked out of 4 other churches so that is 5 all together and with no explination now in my beliefs I have studied many religions since then and all talk about a version of human that can servive through almost anything and will be able to live off eachother now I am not trying to confirm that vampires are the new wave of the future but with the way I have been treated by the church I think they are scared



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Cadamia
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15:39:53 Jan 03 2006
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I think this is metaforical for something else, I don't think it is to be taken literally; however I will get with some friends of mine that are bible scholars and see how it translates from the original text sometimes the english bible loses something in the translation



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michen
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16:44:05 Jan 03 2006
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Sure, you could interpret it this way. After all, we read what we want to read.



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BloodLustingEyes
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17:42:49 Jan 03 2006
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in responce to you angelofdarkness1977, it does say drinking blood is a sin, however jesus also later says it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out that makes him unclean.



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Shalina
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19:55:01 Jan 03 2006
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If you read the context of the scriptures around it you will find that it is a metaphor for the way generations grow in progression. If you take it literally it could be a vampire. I am not religious to any point. I think anything is possible, but I do not find this as a statement in the "Bible" of the Christians that vampires exist. You also have to realize that the "Bible" has been translated into so many languages and by so many different people that this may not even be the original meaning. If the original text was ever found and a person could truely read the language it was written in, we would all be suprised at how much things change.

I know, a little philosophical, but hey, what are forums for if not to be debated.



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Evangius
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23:22:39 Jan 03 2006
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The verse is kind of subjective. You have to remember that the thing was translated so many times and which bible you are using that I am not sure that the pure hebrew would translate into that.



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alexandradangelo
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00:51:33 Jan 04 2006
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The only vampire I heard of in the bible before this was the soldier who stabbed christ in the side with the spear of destiny. The exact verse is: After the soldiers crucified Christ, they knew he was dead, but one of them split his side with a spear, and spilled out the blood and water. A drop of blood fell into the soldiers mouth, but he did not think much of it. The next morning, the soldier slept past dawn and arose only at night with an unquenchable thirst for blood.

The parable found by you is amazing and I can't help but agree with you.



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Siobhan
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00:53:50 Jan 04 2006
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Alexandra, can you quote the Book, Chapter and Verse for that quote. You say it is exact but not provide the references.

Thank you :)



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GrlBurnin
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05:39:40 Jan 04 2006
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As others have asked I would like to know the Chapter and Verse so I could research this. I haven't read it since a child but I would find this insightful information.



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GrlBurnin
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05:41:10 Jan 04 2006
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Sorry for my mispost reread it and found the information I was seeking again my apologies.



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schizorain
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05:58:05 Jan 04 2006
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It wouldn't be that far fetched now would it? Not to say that I'm one to read the Bible.



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RazielTheUntouchable
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06:14:24 Jan 04 2006
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What i think it means is that there will be people who's words are cruel to others around them who are poor enough in sprit to let it bother them...doesnt sound like a vampire at all concidering I've never heard of a vampire with lower jagged fangs, it would sound closer to a lycan than vampire, there isnt anything else to assume anything other than my above statement...



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bloodyengel
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06:53:18 Jan 04 2006
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John 19:32 "The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing sudden flow fo blood and water. The man who saw it has given testimony , and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies sot aht you may also believe. " It says nothing about the unquenchable thirst of the centurion or that blood fell into his mouth.



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bloodyengel
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07:01:33 Jan 04 2006
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Also, the proverb isn't meant to directly reference lycans or vampires. It sounds more like lycans but in the context, it's more about "those who are haughty" Proverbs is written with the voice of Wisdom speaking. There's no real reason Wisdom would be talking about vampires or lycans. However, she may be dropping a hint. Proverbs are meant as life sayings and to have close to one's heart in the time of evil presence. The proverbs were written to cure men of foolish means



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scionofrequiem
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08:26:22 Jan 04 2006
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OKay alexandradangelo that whole little quote you got is from a game which is called Vampire: The Requiem. Its from Longinus, the Centurian, who was reported to be the man who stabbed Christ. In which a bit of this mans blood fell on his lips and was cursed by God to live as a damned soul. From which Longinus became a founder of a covenant in the game called "Lancea Sanctum" which means Holy Lance.

I was wondering when Dogma from the game would start to make its way into the culture. Unless you can give proof of this passage in something not found by a gamer I would like to say your information is dramaticly false.

- Sin
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vampric666
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13:31:41 Jan 04 2006
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what you say might be true and it might be false the churches might say that the bible was talking of some beast in which a vampire can be a beast

but when is the bible not chacged to reflect what they want you to believe
but i say go for it
find those versus that might signify our exhistance from long ago



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BloodLustingEyes
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14:30:43 Jan 04 2006
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hate to point this out but the bible is pretty clear on details. as much as i would love to believe vampires mentioned in the bible, if you look at revelation, the descriptions of demons make the visual very recognisable as demons. if there was a vampire in the bible i think it would thouroghly describe fangs and facial complections. along with any other unnatural physical characteristics. this is just from what i've read of the bible.



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NightSilver
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14:37:19 Jan 04 2006
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i had always thought the passages posted up top were in reference to the 7 deadly sins. the vampire reference is interesting to say the least



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shane5096667
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14:44:10 Jan 04 2006
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I will have to agree with extac1 with his responce. It was very well put



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Twistedimperfections
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16:06:08 Jan 04 2006
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Most vampire references have to do with the book of Enoch i think , the "christians" didn't want people to know of the vampire world so they cast most of them out of the bible. But i do belive there is a "relgious" like book that has mention of Vampires



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MyrrhkuriTheFallenOne
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17:55:11 Jan 04 2006
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Sounds about right...I think there is more out there then the church talks about....most vampyre stories have some reference point to the church....excommunication, blaming God, heck isn't it Vampire the Masquerade that says Cain or Abel is the first vampyre....??



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unholygoth666
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19:15:04 Jan 04 2006
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it is the cathloks made the first vamp



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Firebender
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21:35:59 Jan 04 2006
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The church tries to hide the fact that GOD talks about everything without hiding nothing. In the bible there are many descriptions to many creatures & even event or things that we do not even reconize nor seen or even heard of. It does sound like a vampire description to me. Aldo my question to this would be, what is your point behind this post on the bible explaning about vampires?



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Cadamia
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22:03:13 Jan 04 2006
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The scripture referred to at the beginning of this thread is in the bible, but the area around it is very fragmented and doesn't give away what they are talking about.



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BloodLustingEyes
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22:31:34 Jan 04 2006
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please, if i may ask, can i have exact references to vampire's mentioned in the bible or any religous book?



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QueenOfDarkness19
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22:34:43 Jan 04 2006
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See? This is why I love the Bible...you just never know what's hidden inbetween the "main" storyline!

Thank you for posting this, it's very interesting!



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QueenOfDarkness19
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22:40:30 Jan 04 2006
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PS- Does anyone ELSE think a few things were lost in the translation & transcription of the Bible? There are just so many contradictions..."Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" and yet Jesus turned water to wine. Why is one a miracle & the other a sin?

Not that I'm dissing it, just musing.

I'm done now. :)



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vampirephoenix
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01:21:08 Jan 05 2006
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My two cents.. Doesn't this part discribe what is happening here and the other vampyre and alternate beliefs??

30:11
There is a generation that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.

30:12
There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.

30:13
There is a generation, O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.

30:14
There is a generation, whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.

30:15
The horseleach hath two daughters, crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:

30:16
The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.

30:17
The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.


Or just another teenager. So, think about it. ;)

Oh and The aposils of christ drink of his blood and eat of his body. So, vampyrism was there too by christ himself. :D



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Twistedimperfections
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02:48:35 Jan 05 2006
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Im pretty sure Cain was the first Vampire, bc Cain killed Abel so it can't be Abel. But im not quite certain about Cain being the VERY first



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IkarusValencia
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04:43:39 Jan 05 2006
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o.O Very interesting...I honestly don't know what to say =9



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scionofrequiem
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07:56:59 Jan 05 2006
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In Vampire the Masquerade it was Cain who was said to be the first Vampire. As for the actual truth to this, Sorry to say, but Cain had married, Fathered, made the great and First City known as Enoch and passed on. I put more faith in the Jewish Texts, the Torah, then I do the Bible. The new testiments were made to shed light upon Jesus, and his way of living. Which isn't very ethicaly possible. Where as the Jewish Laws, which is what started everything in the first place, are more sound and more easily attained and what were created by those chosen by God, those who had sin, not those born without sin and had the followers write the teachings for them.

Also there is more meaning in the Bible then those that are posting about it being cut and dry. There is a reason why people study it, disect it, and look into it more then anyone else. Some times the truth is much more concealed in a written word.

- Sin



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Siobhan
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16:07:22 Jan 05 2006
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Scion, you make some wonderful points.

However, the earliest known written laws in effect were not Jewish. They were the Code of Hamurabi which itself was influenced by - and makes several references to - the so-called "Sumerian Family Laws". An excellent dissemination of the material can be found at www.fordham.edu.

Also Biblical "sin" is a idea widely misinterpreted in our time. In Greek -- the language in which the New Testament was written -- the word for "sin" is "amartia," which literally means "to miss the mark." That is a much more gentle understanding of the word than the Merriam-Webster definition ;)

We strive to do what is right but we "miss the mark". We struggle; we stumble, rise and try again. These are not moral impossibilities because the Greek word does not imply perfection.



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Frankie069
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16:42:04 Jan 05 2006
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Eviladam.. here is some information for you on Saint Christopher..

The Roman Catholic Christopher

St. Christopher, by Albrecht DürerAmong Roman Catholics, the most popular St. Christopher legend is preserved in Jacobus de Voragine's 13th century Golden Legend. The story states that Christopher was a sort of Canaanite giant or ogre, who was said to have lived during the first half of the 3rd century. He was twelve cubits (about 18 feet or 5.5 m) tall and had a most fearsome countenance. His name originally was "Offero" or "Reprobus." His pride was such that he vowed that he would serve only a master who was more fearsome than himself. After research, he determined that the Devil was a likely candidate. He therefore pledged himself to the Devil's service, only to abandon the Devil when he learned that the Devil was in turn afraid of the cross of Jesus.

Offero/Reprobus then vowed to serve Jesus instead, and became a Christian. He sought out a Christian hermit to inquire as to how he could better serve Jesus. The hermit directed him to a dangerous ford in a swift river, and suggested that the giant's great size and strength made him a good candidate to assist people in crossing. Offero/Reprobus began ferrying people across the river on his broad back.

One day, a small child approached the river and asked to be carried across. The giant began to comply, only to learn that the small boy was far heavier than any other passenger he had taken. The child revealed that he was in fact Jesus Christ, and that his unusual weight was due to the fact that he bore the sins of the world. The boy then baptised the giant in the river, acquiring his new name Christopher, which is Greek for "Christ-carrier" (christo-phoros).

The child then told Christopher to plant his staff in the ground. The staff miraculously bloomed into a fruit-bearing tree. This miracle converted many. Enraged at these conversions, a local king had Christopher imprisoned, where after cruel tortures he died as a martyr.

The veneration of this improbable figure was sharply criticised by Erasmus in his Praise of Folly. Christopher's feast day formerly was July 25; it was downgraded by the Vatican to a purely local commemoration in 1969. Christopher was formerly one of the Fourteen Holy Helpers, and the patron saint of travelers. Despite his demotion, devotion to St. Christopher remains popular among Roman Catholics, as evidenced by the medallions issued in his name, which are worn to show devotion to a certain saint and ask for that saint's prayers.



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VR System
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16:42:04 Jan 05 2006
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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