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Biblical Veiws on Vampirism.
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IntunericLumina
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02:08:11 Feb 15 2006
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So, I have a good question. What are the biblical veiws on Vampirism? Is it mentioned in the bible? I've read it a couple times over...I can't seem to find anything about it. So what are we to take on God's idea of Vampires? Who's idea was it? Are Vampires considered good or evil? Demonic or otherwise? Did God create Vampires? who did then?




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Lestat86
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02:12:58 Feb 15 2006
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This is a mix of questions done before, but I will answer some of them. First off, you need to beleive in both the biblical words and god. I do not believe in either. As to religions and vampirism, the Catholic church claims to drink the blood of christ, and that could be considered "vampirism" as in Sang, due to the fact that they "believe" it helps their soul or what not. Where did vampirism come from? Who knows. We dont know, nor will we ever porbably know. Um what were the other questions?



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Lestat86
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02:16:17 Feb 15 2006
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Oh, good or evil, as most people will tell you, it is individual basis, just like regular people, some are good some are bad, vampires aren't evil because we just are not like in the movies and what not, if that is where you got that idea. That is like saying all people are evil because some people committ crimes, though I dont like most people anyway, but thats my own prejudice.



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IntunericLumina
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02:19:39 Feb 15 2006
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Oh no...I personally love vampires. I've loved them sense I was a little girl, and infact I feel more freedom on this site then I ever did in real life situations. I can express my opinions here without being harassed.

Anyways...as I was saying. I dont think there evil, but I always wondered....the bible claims that if it isn't in the bible....it doesnt exist. How does that work? They say God's word cannot be contridicted....it's just alot of problems. Hard to explain. *shurgs* I'm just trying to answer things that have been left unanswered for a long time. Nobody can give me a straight answer.



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LaMuerte
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02:24:04 Feb 15 2006
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The problem with the bible is that it's metaphorical. I believe that the bible is a profound magickal text as well as mostly truthful, but there are many things not mentioned in the bible, vampirism being one of them. Another thing not mentioned are the ancient civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria. As far as the source of vampirism, no one can be absolutely sure. But one theory suggests that it is one of many steps in the evolution of the human form.



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IntunericLumina
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02:33:03 Feb 15 2006
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True.... back in the seventeen hundreds, the catholic church stripped the bible of anything they felt "unessesary" for the people of england to read. The made the "king james bible" which is read by millions today. So...you do have a point.



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LaMuerte
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02:47:43 Feb 15 2006
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Well, even the original version of the bible leaves out things. It doesn't mention the fact that Noah and his family weren't the only people to survive the flood. There are a lot of things that the writers didn't include. Perhaps they thought it wasn't important? We'll never know the motivation, but it doesn't make the bible any less of a text.



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belail
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03:27:06 Feb 15 2006
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well now thats a good question and as far as i know it is not in the bible and god didnt create vampires but if you want to go biblical i would have to say the devil created vampires but in other terms i thinkl man made vampires to boost up their pride in takeing controll over the world by dominating other species but that id just what i think



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VampyersKss
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03:36:58 Feb 15 2006
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hmm..the bible i believe states god created every living thing...and most vampires are very much alive...(contrary to popular belief due to hollywood's portrayl) The bible doesn't specify ever single creature created by god so somewhere in the mix vampires were created...good or evil...much like the humans created ..and angels ect..they apparently had a choice of being good or evil (example being Lucifer and the Angels that fell) there are a million different ways this can be looked at from a biblical and non biblical stand point...what it boils down to is your own personal beliefs



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domangelus
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03:46:31 Feb 15 2006
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Please DOWNLOAD my article, entitled "Vampires According To Enoch." It may prove useful to this topic. Let me know what you think.

Vampires According to Enoch_Updated.doc



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IntunericLumina
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03:50:31 Feb 15 2006
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I tried to download your stuff....it didnt work...my computer doesnt like me. However...I do like what you guys are saying. I'm just another person looking for answes.

I've heard many rumors of this whole situation. Bible leaves stuff out...people take things out....jewish people say this other stuff about christ and a wife...and its all confusing.



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Rayden
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03:50:58 Feb 15 2006
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Nephilis, A biblical race of half fallen-angles and humans. It is popular belief that the vampire are or originated from this race. Wheather christans and such belive the race is all out evil I do not know.



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IntunericLumina
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03:57:07 Feb 15 2006
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Now there's something I havent heard. Enlighten me more on this race...



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domangelus
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04:19:28 Feb 15 2006
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The article can also be viewed in my Teachings Journal (January). I could post it here, but it would take up way too much space.



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IntunericLumina
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04:30:14 Feb 15 2006
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Alrighty...thank you btw for the message...thats stuff is interesting. I havent finished reading it yet but I'll get back to it now. just wanted to say thanks.



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domangelus
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04:37:48 Feb 15 2006
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If you have any questions, I would more than glad to elaborate on the details. ;)



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LaMuerte
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05:33:34 Feb 15 2006
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I like your article, though I have a somewhat different view. Simply put, I believe vampires are simply one of many evolutions of the human condition. Others being witches, lycans, etc.



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lilyanubis
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06:28:50 Feb 15 2006
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i dont read the bible it is more sadistic than even i can handle. we are the others. to good for heaven or hell... if there is such a place. higher existence is all i try to achieve



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MARIUS
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06:42:03 Feb 15 2006
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I know no heaven no hell.....all I care about is my kind.



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rancidmeat
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09:17:39 Feb 15 2006
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evolution is what i think is the answer form an athiest's point of view anyway



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Enigma
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09:40:02 Feb 15 2006
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All the answers you are looking for, pre-date the bible by 10,000s of years...I don't believe there are any direct referances to Vampires in any version of the bible...The bible is a book of faith not a history book...



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deathnitegrl
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09:51:31 Feb 15 2006
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First of all which bible?There are al ot of bibles like there are a lot of religions.

But I guess you're referring to the Christian bible.

From what I remember vampires where never mentioned and in my religion classes no one ever mentioned vampires.

I think they're just seen as mytical creatures therefore they are seen as creatures of the 'devil' and that are from 'hell'.

That's why in this subject you havet o build your own opinion and not what others tell you.



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mearhinas
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11:37:51 Feb 15 2006
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Hmmmm I do believe that Enoch mentioned vampirism in some way shape or form but I believe this has already been mentioned.



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BillytheJust
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11:59:19 Feb 15 2006
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No vamps in bible - period.
Enoch mentions fallen angels and mix breeding leading to the giants, not vamps. David was thought to have fought one of the last of these giants.
At that time in history no vamps are mentioned but, demons were. In fact, demons were very popular during that time. The 72 Soloman's demons are well known. So perhaps you may find your vampires within the demon terminology.



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LadySekhmet
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12:09:03 Feb 15 2006
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The outside world views us a lot as demonic persons. But I don't think we are.... I'm a good person!!! LOL.



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deathnitegrl
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12:09:41 Feb 15 2006
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Exactly BillyTheJust.

If vampires are seen as mentioned that's probabbly a metaphor which is referring to something else.

As for demons they are surely mentioned.



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STABB666
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12:47:31 Feb 15 2006
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Considering that the use of the actual term "vampire" is a relatively new phenomenon, I'd go with Billy in that demons were as likely to be what vampires were called.

Probably anything which was dark and scary to people was called "demon".



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IntunericLumina
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16:42:34 Feb 15 2006
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You guys really helped me out. Thanks for all the answers. That question has been dwelling in my mind for a while. It's just that....I was a devote christian for a long time, even though I still loved vampires...I felt like it was a forbidden thing but I did it anyways....and I always wondered....I always asked myself....did God create them? If he did...then he's contridicting himself....he never touches evil, right? Its all really confusing. I never realized how many different religious points of veiw there are. Theres alot of interesting people on this site too.



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King`Tarquin
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17:08:22 Feb 15 2006
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You know, in the Bible, Genesis, Cain was said that he WAS MARKED and will be chased by men.

So, other people think, that he IS the first vampire.

Or maybe not.



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mrd
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17:12:27 Feb 15 2006
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And then God forbid anyone to harm Cain after he brought this concern to God. The idea that "Caine" has anything to do with vampires is really just a role playing invention..there is no real reason to assume from the texts that his character had any connection with vampirism. That's my take on it anyway.

- D



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IntunericLumina
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17:16:09 Feb 15 2006
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Yeah..I have to agree with him. the idea of Caine was an invention with Vampire the Masquerade, I believe.



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King`Tarquin
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17:34:14 Feb 15 2006
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Oh well, that's a nice theory anyways.



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scionofrequiem
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17:37:07 Feb 15 2006
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No one knows who was the first to bring about the Awakened. Yet we all have our therioes. As for the One Gods veiws, I would say it all depends on how you live. Vampyrism, the real thing, isn't something shrouded in darkness, death, evil, malicious, blood, sex and black magic as seen in some books, movies, games, ect.

It all depends on how you go about your condition, how you practice your condition and how you think of your condition.

- Sin



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domangelus
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Direct references from the Book Of Enoch pertaining to the vampiric traits of these hybrid creatures. You will never find the term "vampire" anywhere in the Bible or extra-biblical texts. Stabb was correct in stating that vampire is a relatively new term. The term "giants" refers to literal giants and to those of creatures of great renown.

Chapter 7

13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.

Chapter 9

1 And then Michael, Uriel, Raphael, and Gabriel looked down from heaven and saw much blood being
2 shed upon the earth, and all lawlessness being wrought upon the earth. And they said one to another: 'The earth made without inhabitant cries the voice of their cryingst up to the gates of heaven.

Chapter 10

10 (excerpted) for length of days shall they not have. And no request that they (i.e. their fathers) make of thee shall be granted unto their fathers on their behalf; for they hope to live an eternal life, and
11 that each one of them will live five hundred years.....

13 To Gabriel also the Lord said, Go to the biters, to the reprobates, to the children of fornication; and destroy the children of fornication, the offspring of the Watchers, from among men; bring them forth, and excite them one against another. Let them perish by mutual slaughter; for length of days shall not be theirs.

Chapter 15
3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children
4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die
5 and perish.

11 And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless
12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.



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XsyntheticheavenX
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18:50:54 Feb 15 2006
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GOD ISNT REAL!!! if god is real, then where did he come from? And why the hell arent we seeing anything anymore about ppl recieving miracles?? GOD ISNT REAL!!! No offence to the people who do believe in him. the bible doesnt say anything about Vampires because supposedly Vampires are "evil" and the bible was made up as a book of rules to scare the shit out of ppl that do wrong. So that they wouldnt. If the bible wasnt thought up then the world would be crazy and law-less....



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mrd
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18:52:56 Feb 15 2006
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No one asked if God was real. And your reason for them not being mentioned is faulty. According to the bible..witches are evil as well..but they are mentioned in abundance. No one is disputing the validity or invalidity of the nature of god, just the biblical view on vampirism.

- D



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PrettySamantha
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18:55:42 Feb 15 2006
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i dont think the biblical views matter because the bible is untrue, just my opinion



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mrd
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19:01:05 Feb 15 2006
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That may be, but I doubt intial legends concerning vampires are any more valid for that matter. In response the taill end of the question though, being to ask if God created vampires..I would have to say yes. If you believe in what the bible says anyway.

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7

I personally believe vampyres create themselves. But that's just me I guess.

- D



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XsyntheticheavenX
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19:06:56 Feb 15 2006
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I respect your comments on what I've stated. And I also believe what you said "I believe Vampires create themselves"....I guess my beliefs in God really have nothing to do with the general questions...lol...*sorry*



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scionofrequiem
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Hey MRD Have you seen my idea of the Sep Tepy? Its more aspected towards my veiws of the bible and God.

As for whoever is saying God isn't real its all in a matter of opinion. Faith is something which is found within, if you have faith then you see, if you do not, then your blind. This is how faith works, just because something cannot be showen through vision, doesn't make it real.

Magic is something that doesn't effect on a large scale nor is it a massive physical manipulation, its something that is subtle.

My veiws on it is this, There is Only One God. This God has many different aspects, forms, if you will, in which people Worship him by. In this means, God is Lilith, Cain, Odin, Riden, Kagatsuchi, Ra, Set, Apollo, ect.

So no matter what, they prey to the one who created them.

- Sin



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XsyntheticheavenX
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19:18:12 Feb 15 2006
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I believe that the idea of gods were created for people that didnt have faith that there would be something better, so that they wouldnt give up because there life was "too hard". I believe that God (whoever he is..or whatever he is) isnt a form but an idea of faith...and that faith is real, so I guess I could say that I do believe in Faith. But in faith we also have doubt and alot of my doubt lies in the fact that there might not be anything better then the life i lead now...so I believe in faith and I have faith that there is something better...but I also have doubt.


But as I've stated before....vampires create themselves...in my opinion...and god or faith or whatever has nothing to do with them



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scionofrequiem
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19:29:13 Feb 15 2006
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I believe we created ourselves as well. As for the belief in Faith that is exactly what is needed or needed to be seen.

We all have our own ideas on what is real and what isn't. Now saying the Bible was truthful is saying any legend is completly true. If anything the Bible represents the legends handed down from person to person in order to document a type of ideal in faith.

Which is why faith is such a powerful thing. We live by it, breath it, and die in it. Just not everyone understands what faith they follow. Weither if be the faith in themselves or God, we all have a type of faith.

There are those known as Nahilists (I believe this is how its spelled), who have the Faith in Nothing. As in, this life and everything we do has no effect and means nothing, so why care. Which is the essential attitude I get when I look through the aspects of such a "Faith."

- Sin



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domangelus
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05:56:01 Feb 16 2006
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My goodness!!! This is how good threads get closed for getting off topic. The original question pertained to the subject of if there were any bibilical references to the existence of vampires. These endless declarations about being atheist or not being able to comprehend even the possibility of a Living God makes one with an open mind wish to be as bigoted as those bashing God or the Bible. Everyone is always demanding an open mind when pertaining to their own personal pagan or non-christian views, but then find it all too easy to disrupt and insult those who follow a biblical or christian path. If you cannot answer the question posed, then move on. If you wish to start a new discussion on the topic, then start a new thread. It's that simple folks....



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IntunericLumina
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06:07:38 Feb 16 2006
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Indeed....I think I've opened a new pandoras box of questions here. I only gave one question and it blew up into several. wow....I guess this is sort of a touchy subject. Lets get back on topic folks. Thank you for your knowledge btw Domangelus. You have been a life saver...I really apperciate your intellectual words and opinions.



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archonsyn
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07:39:16 Feb 16 2006
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Wow, thats a big post!



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panther6345
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07:53:55 Feb 16 2006
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"Take and drink, this is my blood shed for you..." It sounds like what a Sire would say to a prospective. I would almost say that was Christ portraying himself as a vampire. As someone mentioned earlier.. the bible is full of metaphorical references, and most definately today missing much of the origional text.

As for good or evil, it's a matter of perspective. Some would say that being thrown to a brood of aligators to be eaten is an evil act. Yet, to worshipers of such animal would view it as a great honor.



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STABB666
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10:44:49 Feb 16 2006
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As Dom said, this is veering wildly off topic.

But this is not helped by the number of questions posed by you, IntunericLumina, when you asked eight different questions across a range of perspectives regarding the Bible and Vampyrism.

In this particular debate, which is always opinionated, you will need to be more specific with your enquiry.

:) STABB



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IntunericLumina
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13:34:13 Feb 16 2006
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Agreed. I asked several different questions all together, which I attempted to bundle into one group thinking that they could all pertain to each other but apparently not. Or even possibly hope that people could stay on topic but it doesnt seem that way does it Stabb? I think I should close the thread, I think we've beaten the main question to death already.



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thedarkx
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18:41:40 Feb 16 2006
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I have never come across a reference to vampirism in the bible...can some one tell me where to find one.



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corpus0713
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18:46:25 Feb 16 2006
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I wanted to post a website I found very useful with reguards to this very topic..

http://watch.pair.com/new-life.html#20.B

these are actually supposed prophecy.. The blood of martyrs is supposed to be a reference to what we now call vampirism.

Im not saying i agree with this..I just find it interesting



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philontour
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01:36:44 Feb 17 2006
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This is a bit of another question but do Catholics feel that the symbolic drinking of Christs blood empowers them?



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mrd
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01:43:05 Feb 17 2006
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I'm pretty sure it's just supposed to be a symbolic dedication and reafirmation of sorts to the convenant which the act references. Though I'm not Catholic..so I could be wrong.

- D



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nightfang
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03:30:07 Feb 17 2006
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I'm not a vamp but instead a wolf, but I believe we woulb be placed in the demon category unfortuntely. Even though I don't consider any of us evil.



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nightfang
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03:31:45 Feb 17 2006
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I did copy the text on Enoch and messaged you with it though.



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IntunericLumina
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03:33:50 Feb 17 2006
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Thank you folks for your help. If you guys dont feel like this is getting anywhere or have lost interest in it, let me know...I'll close this thread and find something new for everyone to sink there teeth into. I sure do love see peoples opinionated responses. LOL



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runicvamp
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09:33:17 Feb 17 2006
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they say GODS word cant be contridicted but yet the BIBLE is a contridiction in itself........if you read in genesis chapter 1 god has to create light twice.....why is that? if it is not in the bible then that DOES NOT mean it does not exist.......



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PrinceValik
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09:44:56 Feb 17 2006
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actually the bible does mention vamprism in a sense but not a being evil but being a paganistic sort of ritual, of course later on the consumation of mortality was forbidden later on after the church decided to rule those parts out of their new conquering tool...when they seen that it would influence their followers to return to their pagan ways...



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GothicSheriff
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12:17:20 Feb 17 2006
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Thats a good question because i'm still questioning that and not getting any answer from any 1 about it.



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Siobhan
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20:12:12 Feb 17 2006
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First, if you believe the Catholic Church removed information from the Bible, please cite the impartial, scholarly works that state that as fact. Otherwise, it is an opinion and needs to be clarified such.

Secondly, Catholics do not believe the partaking of Christ's blood and body is "symbolic". It is not an empowering but a humbling act, one that is done in reverence and humility.

I am saddened that so many topics require proof, citations of reference material and scholarly accountability, except for the topic of Christian religion. I am not here to evangelize, but to ask the same consideration be given that is accorded to Wicca, Buddism, Hinduism, etc.

Be well all.



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DerickV616
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20:23:10 Feb 17 2006
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i belive that god is a 12 year old that plays with the mortales and his heaven is what a 12 year old would think it is and he is not searious with his power satin however is he will welcome you to the underworldand give you a house and thank you for adding to his population, that is the truth of it all sory but that is what it is



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mrd
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20:23:40 Feb 17 2006
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Not symbolic..then what would you call it..literal?

- D



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mrd
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20:27:21 Feb 17 2006
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I just pulled this off a Catholic website article by Paul Turner:

"However, Catholic communion is just that, a sign of Catholic unity. The Eucharist symbolizes our union with God but also our union with one another."

Seems symbolic to me.
- D



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Siobhan
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20:37:28 Feb 17 2006
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This is from http://www.newadvent.org:

"The Church's Magna Charta, however, are the words of Institution, "This is my body — this is my blood", whose literal meaning she has uninterruptedly adhered to from the earliest times. The Real Presence is evinced, positively, by showing the necessity of the literal sense of these words, and negatively, by refuting the figurative interpretations. As regards the first, the very existence of four distinct narratives of the Last Supper, divided usually into the Petrine (Matthew 26:26 sqq.; Mark 14:22 sqq.) and the double Pauline accounts (Luke 22:19 sq.; 1 Corinthians 11:24 sq.), favors the literal interpretation. In spite of their striking unanimity as regards essentials, the Petrine account is simpler and clearer, whereas Pauline is richer in additional details and more involved in its citation of the words that refer to the Chalice. It is but natural and justifiable to expect that, when four different narrators in different countries and at different times relate the words of Institution to different circles of readers, the occurrence of an unusual figure of speech, as, for instance, that bread is a sign of Christ's Body, would, somewhere or other, betray itself, either in the difference of word-setting, or in the unequivocal expression of the meaning really intended, or at least in the addition of some such mark as: "He spoke, however, of the sign of His Body." But nowhere do we discover the slightest ground for a figurative interpretation. If, then, natural, literal interpretation were false, the Scriptural record alone would have to be considered as the cause of a pernicious error in faith and of the grievous crime of rendering Divine homage to bread (artolatria) — a supposition little in harmony with the character of the four Sacred Writers or with the inspiration of the Sacred Text. Moreover, we must not omit the important circumstance, that one of the four narrators has interpreted his own account literally. This is St. Paul (1 Corinthians 11:27 sq.), who, in the most vigorous language, brands the unworthy recipient as "guilty of body and of the blood of the Lord". There can be no question of a grievous offense against Christ Himself unless we suppose that the true Body and the true Blood of Christ are really present in the Eucharist. Further, if we attend only to the words themselves their natural sense is so forceful and clear that Luther wrote to the Christians of Strasburg in 1524: "I am caught, I cannot escape, the text is too forcible" (De Wette, II, 577). The necessity of the natural sense is not based upon the absurd assumption that Christ could not in general have resorted to use of figures, but upon the evident requirement of the case, which demand that He did not, in a matter of such paramount importance, have recourse to meaningless and deceptive metaphors. For figures enhance the clearness of speech only when the figurative meaning is obvious, either from the nature of the case (e.g. from a reference to a statue of Lincoln, by saying: "This is Lincoln") or from the usages of common parlance (e.g. in the case of this synecdoche: "This glass is wine"), Now, neither from the nature of the case nor in common parlance is bread an apt or possible symbol of the human body. Were one to say of a piece of bread: "This is Napoleon", he would not be using a figure, but uttering nonsense. There is but one means of rendering a symbol improperly so called clear and intelligible, namely, by, conventionally settling beforehand what it is to signify, as, for instance, if one were to say: "Let us imagine these two pieces of bread before us to be Socrates and Plato". Christ, however, instead of informing His Apostles that he intended to use such a figure, told them rather the contrary in the discourse containing the promise: "the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world" (John 6:52), Such language, of course, could be used only by a God-man; so that belief in the Real Presence necessarily presupposes belief in the true Divinity of Christ, The foregoing rules would of themselves establish the natural meaning with certainty, even if the words of Institution, "This is my body — this is my blood", stood alone, But in the original text corpus (body) and sanguis (blood) are followed by significant appositional additions, the Body being designated as "given for you" and the Blood as "shed for you [many]"; hence the Body given to the Apostles was the self same Body that was crucified on Good Friday, and the Chalice drunk by them, the self same Blood that was shed on the Cross for our sins, Therefore the above-mentioned appositional phrases directly exclude every possibility of a figurative interpretation."

Again, I am not here to evangelize.



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VladVoivode
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20:40:14 Feb 17 2006
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Siobhan,

Well done, well argued and based soundly on historical fact.

Let me if you will expand upon a few things.

Thomas Jefferson in HIS version of the Bible DID remove all of the miracles of Christ because his approach to a belief in a Supreme Being was based upon a movement called Deism which stressed a belief in a Supreme Creator Being through REASON. As reason is incapable of comprehending miracles they were stripped from the Jeffersonian bible. This same bible was the one given to incoming congresspersons until quite recently.

I have NEVER seen such lack of knowledge of the Catholic Church as I see here - regularly. As a former Roman Catholic who is now a Russian Orthodox Christian who has read not only the Bible but also the Desert Fathers, encyclicals, Ecumenical Councils, histories, theological tracts from Orthodox, Catholic, and protestant sources, I am quite qualified to answer other falsehoods.

For Orthodox and Catholics, the Body and Blood of Christ are NOT symbolic. No, we do not actually drink PHYSICAL blood nor engage in cannibalism. As the theology is not appropriate - or ALLOWED here, I will not clarify. Please message me instead. The idea of symbolic recreation lies with the protestant reformers John Calvin and Ulrich Zwingli.

Somebody in this thread tried to argue that Christ possibly presented Himself as a vampire to His Apostles. Does a vampire give of his blood for the forgiveness of sins? No. If you read the Bible as you claimed you have done, you would see that Christ said "... drink, for this is my Blood, the Blood of the New and Everlasting Covenant, which shall be shed for you and for many for the remission of Sin."

Like Siobhan, I am asking that if you write about Christianity, you afford it the same respect and tolerance you accord other belief systems.

By the way, the anti-Catholic notion of scripture removal is a long standing prejudicial claim made against Catholics for at LEAST two centuries by fundamentalist Christian groups. It was recently resurrected by Dan Brown in his FICTIONAL DaVinci Code.

Watch the movie Gangs of New York and see how far we have NOT come in our prejudices against another religion. An Admin told me that FREE SPEECH is protected here. I couldn't agree more. RESPONSIBLE speech must also be the rule of intelligent discourse. I see very little when it comes to Christianity in general and Catholicism and Orthodoxy in particular.



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VladVoivode
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20:41:41 Feb 17 2006
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See Siobhan's reply above mine for a good description of the Real Presence of the Body and Blood.

Thanks Siobhan!!



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mrd
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20:45:45 Feb 17 2006
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I'm sorry but even with this..I still don't see how the present act of communion through the Eucharist is any more than a rite of unification through a representation Christ's supposed sacrifice. Thus, it is presently symbolic. What Christ did then(or more practically how he said it) doesen't mean much in this day and age. All I see is a dedication..no more.

- D

- D



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Siobhan
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20:50:52 Feb 17 2006
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mrd, it is completely your right to see what you will in the text above. Catholics and Orthodox Christians believe in the Real Presence during the partaking of the eucharist; it is not a symbolic act of unity.



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VladVoivode
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20:52:13 Feb 17 2006
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mrd,

If you wish, I will teach you - and others - what the original ARAMAIC meant. This was the language Christ spoke. The Bible itself (NT) was originally translated into Ancient Greek. Again, the words do NOT imply or infer symbolism.

Message me.

VladVoivode.



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mrd
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20:53:16 Feb 17 2006
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So..they believe then that the spirit of Christ is present in the materials presented during communion? I'm not interjecting for any purpose other than to understand this rite properly.

- D



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LaMuerte
LaMuerte

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20:56:19 Feb 17 2006
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Exactly. I used to go to Roman Catholic mass regularly. We (they) firmly believe that a miracle is performed every time the eucharest is blessed, transforming it from bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. It is not symbolic. It is a real act in our eyes.



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VladVoivode
VladVoivode

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20:58:08 Feb 17 2006
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Actually MRD, if you CAREFULLY read Siobhan's LONG post, you will see an etymological explanation of those ancient words.

But I noticed in YOUR words the phrase "supposed sacrifice". It implies that you doubt the sacrifice itself. That is your right. But as such, I cannot argue a point if you even doubt the original instance - in this case the execution of Christ.

Such a debate is not for us to engage in here. As it is, I expect this thread will be closed because it is becoming "Christian".

*Smiles, let's debate it at Home, in our own thread. I respect your intelligence and I need the exercise.

Your Housemate,

VladVoivode



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VladVoivode
VladVoivode

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20:59:20 Feb 17 2006
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Thank you LaMuerte.



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mrd
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21:01:04 Feb 17 2006
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I perhaps should have used the word "alleged". I do not doubt that he died..I only doubt the scale of impact that death made..outiside of the real world. Indeed..if you start a thread in the House forums I'll look for it. :)

- D



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Siobhan
Siobhan

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21:03:32 Feb 17 2006
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Yes, mrd, that is correct. Your questions are well-thought and your desire to understand this Rite is the reason I copied text from the online Catholic Encyclopedia instead of attempting to define it myself.

LaMuerte, thank you for your excellent explanation.

Vlad, thank you too :)



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lary4rock
lary4rock

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21:34:55 Feb 17 2006
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no, just about demons.... in this category u could find something about vampires



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blutdurst
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12:53:47 Apr 16 2006
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the bible contains more about vampyres than i ever thought of



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by STABB666 on Apr 16 2006  •

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