The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

Ok, my question for discussion comes from a theological conversation I had with another elder of my house, a witch and a christian spiritualist the other night. I think all present made valid points, and that it sparked some really thoughtful insight. I wanted to give you all the same chance, Dont disappoint me.

The Question is: Are Vampire angels of death and change? Are we doing the work of the divine as She/He/It has made and intended for us to do.
Or
Are we demonic embodyments of some evil as we must feed off the life forces of those we encounter?
Or
Are we neither angelic nor demonic, but intead, cosmically nessary to aid in keeping the ballance between life and death enjoying an existance somewhere in the grey haze of good and evil that nobody likes but nobody has a choice but to accept.

So, in the style of Mike Miers, Vampires: Beautiful Angels of Death, Seductive Demonic Evil or Neither, just really interesting and useful folks......discuss.

This is a debate that has run as long as life itself, since the first within the garden of eden where lilith came before eve.
Religions no matter what religion, pagan, christian, catholic, mormon ( pardon my spelling if i made mistakes ) or any other, they each hold thier veiws.
In order to come to a clear place upon it one must hold a stricktly neutral position.
Vampire is merely another race of life. It is neither good or evil, angelic or demonic.
There is " in my opinion " no true good or evil, there is merely a person no matter what species or race, belief system or what have you, that is standing at a cross roads within any given situation of life. They have the choice to either do the " good " or the "bad " and this is where the sides of light and dark come to be.
I feel though, that there is no discerning definition to place upon any one species of creature over another. It would be like comparing wolves and fish, or humankind and any given animal. We all live and are defined soley by the choices we ourselves decide to make.

Vampirism is an evolution, not a divine or infernal gift. We are still people, whatever our purpose, and that's really all there is to it...

Muerte, if we have a "dark gift," weither it be insight, empathy strenght, what ever, cant we liken it to magick in a pagan sense. Those gifts had to come from somewhere right?

Keep in mind Im not attacking your oppinion, Im provoking discussion

Those abilities are in the capability of anyone who sets thier mindto them. It is something that is with everyone no matter who they are, it is the wish to develope it or not that makes the difference. Some come by these gifts alot more naturally then most but still we all only use about 10 % of our brains, those who manage to make it further with the practice and study of all this expand the size of percentage that is used.

I believe that vampires, like human beings have a choice. They can choose to be demonic, and caause chaos, or they can choose to be good/angelic, and help people out or some such nonsense...

I believe as vampires we have a choice for good or evil it is our choice to choose

RaNuit and LaMuerte said it well... we are neither angelic or demonic but exist and survive...

When you start crossing religions and myths and legend, overlaping this reality...Everything becomes 'muddled'...These words have many different means to most...I do disagree, about the referance to being human...There is definately a differance from a Vampyre and a base human...

Evil not I

Angelic no way

A vampyre I am

And a Vampyre i shall stay......

For eternity & beyond.

Good or bad we all have the opportunity to do or be either.

lol Well said, RaNuit and LordLestat, well said. Vampires are vampires; another species just like ours. Being demonic or angelic is merely a state of mind in which we use to describe someone's behavior or personality, whether someone is wicked or kind. Vampires are not demonic or angelic and neither are we... Perhaps we should watch how we project our behavior...

I quite agree with RaNuit. They are merely another race.
However, I also believe that vampyres and all other creatures of the night are neither. They are here to keep the balance. Just like humans are here to keep the balance. A balance that many dont know of and the one's that do have to choice but to deal with it.

You will never find a clear answer for this if you go off of everyone else though for everyone has a different view on 'good and evil' you need to find your view and stick with it.
-MixedBlood-

Some may say we are demonic. I say we are just a different species of human. We have a dark gift that has advanced our lifestyle. We are just like any other being. when a tiger or lion attack a kazell does that make them evil, no they are just trying to survive. That is what we do when we feed, just surving.

True, as I said before, but vampires do not prey on nonvampiric types. That is only in fiction and where they more commonly get the response that they are demonic from their behavior. Even that is not demonic or angelic. Real vampires do not need to live on blood; they wouldn't steep so low as to prey, but I doubt they would even go so far out of their way to do good in the world as well. They must not want that publicity. After all they are mysterious beings from being so secretive and for good reason...

Not sure of this "we" stuff but if you are implying that we as human beings, then I may be able to help. Or throw my two cents in.

People are people. Roleplaying aside. Everyone has what are called "Archtypes." These are what makes a person what there are. A priest will have a priest archtype as part of their soul. And artist will have an archtype of an artist's. And so on. It is something like a caste system but on a spiritual level. One can not change these archtypes. They are what makes you - you.
We have all heard the saying: "Be true to yourself." or " Just be yourself." This is why it is soo important to live your life and not try to be something you are not. "We" don't fit in because "we" don't have that certain archtypes that others have. Period.
If you haven't guess this by now, yes, there is a vampire archtype. No angel or demon is behind what you are asking for. It's just you - being you. ~ Billy

Now who's getting off subject, love? lol

"We"s?... Where and which part? We as non-vampire or vampiric or we as vampires?

And "roleplaying"? Are you suggesting that people are 'pretending' to be vampires? Offending to those who are or truly believe...

Anyway, you speak truth that there is no demonic or angelic pressence involve in vampirism. I agree. As I said, "it is merely a state of mind used for describing a behavior"...

It depends on your preception of good and evil

?... Care to clarify what it is that you are directing this statement toward? Hmm... What we believe to be good or evil? Angelic or demonic? Their behavior with which we describe?...

We are evolution of humanity and magic we choose if we are demons or angels we have the rite of blood of either side

But we are human and vampire. We choose whether we want to be 'angelic' or 'demonic' (kind or wicked). Not what species we want to be... In my opinion, leave that up to the afterlife (God or Satan; If you should believe that)...

We are what we are. We are Vampires. Human yet in touch with our more animalistic natures. If you beleve yourself a product of the devil then you become that and visa versa

We are no more angelic or demonic than lycanthropes(werewolves, werecats, werebears, etc), fey (faerie folk) dragons, or other Otherkin. We really are just a separate race, each one of us an individual, with different degrees of morals and values.

I feel that demonic and angelic is what you make of it. If absolute pleasure is beautiful and good than that is an angel, if absolute pleasure is beautiful and good than you have a succubus (demon). Evil ad good is a personal choice. Decide if you want happy now of much, much later.

Yes! Exactly. I agree with the three of you, though I am alittle confused by what morphinedream08 had to say. Could you clarify?...

It depends on the vampire they could either choose to be good or evil......but most of the time their are preceived as evil.

Only in fiction, my dear...

Are angels and demons real? I mean if you are defining the beings as those that have chosen to follow "God's" law, and those that have chosen to follow their own course, thus ignoring "God's" course. I think the arguement becomes one of choice, as mentioned. If one chose to follow the left hand path... always, one might consider you a demon. If on the other hand you always took the right hand path, then you would likely be considered an angel. The thing is, that no-one chooses the left hand path, or the right hand path, always; which is to say that we have choice. Either way, all roads lead to Rome (figuratively.) So whether you chose the hard bumpy short path, or the long safe beautiful path, is up to each individual descision of the day... and makes us the individuals that we are: a garden of roses with beauty and thorns.

vampires are jsut another spiecies.. hybrid but a spiecies..

~Shadowdancer~

Hmmm, perhaps you mean breed, a species by definition can breed within itself. Unless of course you are implying that a Vampire such as that which you appear to have intimate knowledge of, does not breed; in which case I believe that most of the people on this forum would be poseurs, even those that believe themselves "turned"?

Not that I am trying to stir that particular pot.

I see alot of this "we are just a different species of human." But in the world of science, we cant be a different species of a species. The Human Race is not a class. So, then to me this leads to the question, are are we humans with our heads on sideways or are we a different species all together?

Hmmm Vampires Angelic or Demonic?. Well let look at it from the christian religion. What are Demons?... They are fallen Angels because they have rebelled against God. The Devil himself was the Angel of Light before he rebelled and was banished from heaven. So it is not whether vampires in general are Angelic or Demonic in as much as it is the individual vampire's actions that define them as angelic or demonic in nature.

i think, no, i mean, that vampires are more demonic than angelic, but they're mixed with both.

I think there are simularities....especially when you think the devil himself is/was an angel. but it depends then on your belief in vampires....are you talking mythological/movie type vampires or living people like ourselves not immortal and not able to change into bats or mist? Cuz if you really do go around killing in this day an age you would be jailed ...

true true. i would imagine that many of us would be in jail, or sentenced to death, if we walked around killing, or feeding, humans..

i know i would.

i'd go more with the balanced, ying and yang of life.

human's have elvolved to the point that thier past normal preditors. instead of evolving with nature, they change nature to fit them.

theorlogically speaking, nature would in turn create a new preditor, one who could feed on humans in thier envirement...

it's my belief that we are a necissary part of life, death, and all things in between so i don't think a vampire can be jugded as good or evil just for being a vampire but the actions of the vampire show true insight into the vampires holy or unholy allgengces

Dark Greeting's, My opinion is we may be a subspecies.As for Angelic or Demonic we choose how we wish to be.human or otherwise there is alway's a choice.My self I feel I survive I try to treet other's as I wish to be treated,as for feeding I'd never drain someone compleatly.Does that make me demon or angel I have no clue.
KA

I agree with Shadowdancer...

we are a race, humanoidbet not "human"

hmmm...now no body be upset, it's been a while since I read the book....
Remember when Lestat encounters these vampires who live under a cemetary...and wear rags..and think they have to be miserable 'cause they are evil?.. Well I also remember Lestat saying, to hell with it! I'm gonna live in a nice house, with nice clothes and if God doesn't like it, He can strike me down. But He doesn't. Even when Lestat goes in a church, nothing happens.
I know it's cheesy but here it is. We are all individuals with choices to make. Some is genetics, some inherited but mostly, we make choices. Evil or Good? You decide!

well said Kat, even if you did pull from Ann Rice. JK. But good point.

I feel the genesis for human vampirism is a desire for a an improved conceptual ability- to see things from a different perspective to what may be considered the "norm."

To be a balanced indivdual,one must try to contemplate both sides, or you are purely playing a role.

Ergo, I see this desire as neither demonic or angelic, but that one might feel that they are in a varying position spiritually to ask that question.

Vampires can be born or made... Nothing at birth is angelic or demonic... You earn your heratige...

whether or not our gifts are divine or damning matters not to me and the line between pureity or corrpuption..good or evil is very much like beauty in the eye of the beholder. and such a conversation is only useful to form an understanding of where everyones mind is set but... doesnt tell whether or not that is how it is or how it isn't factual....

I would like to say that vampires are neither demonic nor angelic, they are not here for anything but to try and keep the balance between worlds.

I don't think vampires can be easily explained; I doubt that even most of them know....

i think vampires are confined to a life between the two

i think we are what we chose to be good/evil it is we who deside

I have heard people speak of psychic vampires. I am speaking of things I am not familiar with, so, educate me! A psychic vampire feeds off the emotions and energy of others, right? If I am wrong, please let me know. I am learning here. I believe we all make a choice as to whether we are good or evil through the way we treat others, and the way we live our lives.

If, a person is a psychic vampire, does this person feed off all they come in contact with, or are they selective? Because, wouldn't it be a selfish act to do this to someone unknowingly? That could be a determining factor as to good or evil, I would think. I mean no offense, I am learning.

I believe that vampires, like Marius, can be angelic in only feeding on the evil doer. However some, like Akasha, choose to be evil and go on massive killing sprees. Its all up to choice and freewill.

mustad,

There are a number of definitions as to what constitutes a 'psychic' vampire, a 'psi-vamp' and an 'energy' vampire.

There are complex cross-overs between all interperatations, but the moral outlook really is down to personal choice, though I know of a few and I suspect that many, follow the Black Veil, to an extent.

Morality is a difficult issue and a deep one. I have to sleep now, but I hope to come back and post some more on this.

See ya.

What does it mean to follow the "Black Veil"?

vampires are supposedly
Fallen Angels from Heaven

I think that vampires are not that differant from the human world and that means there is good and bad.. as always.

I agree that they could be both...l.it all depends on tha nature of the being, and what they have done or served in their lives.

All of this sums it all up that we are niether, but both if we choose to be. We can be angel or demon and even a mix of both st times, its not because we are vampires we have to be 1 or the other or niether, just that small part of evolution...

vampires are who they wish to be and believe in - they may be demonic if that's what they believe and want for themselves, or angelic, or whatever.

niether

angelic demons and demonical angels

I feel that the determining factor is the road chosen. There are good and bad in all of us, and it depends on which directive takes precedence.

I do not believe that they are either of the above. I believe that they are a seperate entity altogether. Governed by hunger, desire, and need, no held in the arms of any specific dogma or god, which includes "devils".

i really don't know what they are. i think they are a mix of both but i think it depends on the vampire. if the vampire wants to do good and still has a lingering respect for life, it is angelic but if it has not respect for life it is not angelic and uses it's power to kill.

i think it is a choice and souly depends on the vampire

I Think That If You Believe In What You Believe. Then I Would Say It's All You Other Then That Kick Ass & Enjoy Yourself And What You Embrace.

Gothic Sheriff

i believe that vampires are a necissary evil, they are needed to keep the balance of good and evil.....

It truly would be to each vampire its own. For it is the being that makes it good or evil. And not simple it be the kind of being it is.

This is a good topic....not sure what i believe tho...alot of people think that vampires are just demons that take over the body and do whatever....but to be honest i think of vampires as fallen angels who have been tainted by evil...they survive by drinking blood, it replenashes (sp) their own so that they can survive & live forever....they hide in the shadows for fear of the sun....the sun to vampires represents "the light of god" and burns anything evil/demonic or tainted!

These are just some of my thoughts...not sure if anyone agrees tho!!