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My question is:

Can a Psy vamp be turned by any ritual or exchange of blood?

Not that I am aware of.

A psy-vamp no I am a psy were born this way just as a sanguine would be only in Hollywood are people turned into a vampiric creature

I have never heard of a turned psy vampire.. they are simply borne with that gift.

*sigh* I really am going to open a can on worms...typing on a pda.

Can a psychic vampire be "turned"? In order to answer this question one must first understans what makes a psy vamp a psy vamp.

Psychic vampirism, like sang vamps is a condition that exists as the result of a deficiency: energy. Our bodies are not able to produce enough vital energy (prana) to sustain a normal mode of living. Day to day energy usage depletes us. Energy work makes this depletion more pronounced. It drains you faster.

With this as a foundation it is now possible to discuss what causes this depletion. See the next post. I am installing in a few posts at a time.

...or "psy vamps" can just be an excuse for people who want to be Vampires, but think it's icky to drink blood?

Tyler: in response... that is always a possibility for some of us. lol I have no doubt there are plenty of wannabes. I also have no doubt that I'm personally attracted to blood.

I would have to say that I have never heard of someone being turned into a psyvamp. I was born the way I am and I honestly dont think that a person can be turned into a psy.

I saw the show about vampires on History Channel last night
It was very informative
It explained how a psy vamp works
very cool
how they feed off the aura of others

I belive that Psy-vampires are born, not turned.

Leading on from Jenova's fine explanation, I would mention that not every energy worker has good intention, nor would they be required to subscribe to any form of regulation on how to utilise their ability.

Which leaves the door open for the unscrupulous to manipulate others systems as they see fit.

Why they might do so, is a matter of conjecture, but people have odd agendas that require certain events to take place, in order to progress towards specific goals.

i believe psy vamps are born not turned. however, i know a few people who having energy manipulation abilities who can mimic a psy vamps "feeding"

In response to this thread, some "psy vamps" haven't the slightest idea that they are feeding off the energy of others. This can be very dangerous to some. It's different when one knows what they are but when one doesn't, that's when so many things can come into play. Can one be turned, that's just Hollywood hoopla.

I'm not saying all energy feeders are vampires either. They just know that being around certain people gives them a euphoric feeling, like being high... they feed on that energy. I know this because I did it for years without realizing it until one day my friend said to me that when he's around me he feels totally drained. I felt bad and decided to read up on this after it was brought to my attention. It's a good idea to ask before taking:)

~Z~

Stabb:> you have a good point. Not all energy workers are held to any kind of contract or obligation to act in the best interests of others. Yes, psychic vampires may become psychic vampires through a variety of means. These "abilities" are not part of being a psychic vampire, but the energy body alteration and the *need* are.

I think many people could benefit from understanding their nature a little better and further than what they can do. Being a psychic vampire is not about the abilities, it's about the condition of the energy body.

Stabb:> I relate my personal definition of psychic vampire in the best way I can describe based off of what I know. While I do not claim to understand this energy deficiency as an expert, I do know the research I have done to come to the conclusions I have. And I have my personal background experience.

But yes, your answer and distinction are something to consider in the overall definition.

Stabb:> incidentally I make a distinction between psychic vampire and energy vampire for the most part. I use the term psychic vampire a lot more widely on forums such as this one because of the fact that vamps tend to be lumped into one grouping.

However, the psychic vampire does indeed carrying innate psychic abilities. Perhaps some of these psychic abilties come about as an enhancement due to the other energy departments that might be lacking?

I consider myself more of an energy vampire. For though I do have some psychic ability, I don't profess to be a super psychic either. I think my abilities were latent *before* the incident that made me vampiric. They have become stronger in my search to understand the alterations in my energy body.

well i have never heard about it before, my answer must be NO i dont think so.

but im open for discussion on this ;-)

Psy vampires might also choose to be Psy for this simply reason of being against murder to survive.

not that i know of

Stabb:> In no way did I take your observation to be a contradiction to my own learning and experience. :)

In regards to your response, yes it is very wise to monitor one's energy output. This is particularly true where any psionic/ psychic/ energy working is concerned. And yes, the vampiric state may indeed hamper some of the abilities mentioned.

However, is it not also possible that because of the natural deficiency the vampire instead increases, refines, and hones their ability to become more effective?

In the case of some psy vamps I have read about, the vampiric state was an unintended result that came about in the attempt to increase their own psychic ability.

To me, it makes sense that just as a person of smaller stature would learn to take self-defense and turn it towards their apparent disadvantage, so too would not the psychic vampire(an energy deficient being) also take psychic ability and hone it stronger towards their apparent "disadvantage"?

Jenova,

Thank you for the confirmation.

If I understand you correctly, the principle purpose of the ritual was successfully achieved and a resultant side effect being a vampiric state.

This would lead to the premise that all of those involved, through their many incarnations, have retained this same self-imposed state,

I would then suppose that over time and with experience, the practice of their manipulation of energy, supports the fine control methods and concentration required for other abilities.

Which leads to the thoughts of how to most effectively overcome the disadvantage. Which seems to be to provide steps up in energy from the grounded, through a handler/transformer role, refined for distribution into those more energy sensitive.

No they cant be sorry...

I don't know about being "turned" but I believe it's something that can develop. I have learned to focus my energey to help others heal, since then I need to feed on other's energy from time to time, also when I use too much though I need to feed off the energy of others asap.

I absolutely adore all the "no" answers that have no premise or theory or even remote reasoning for their belief... *sigh*

I'm going to agree with everyone else here & say no! I think that's something your born with & over time you learn how to use better! I think that psy vamps & energy vamps are basically the same thing, that or they share alot of similar traits!

turned into what..lol..no they cant..maybe they can develop a blood fetish but no, not "turned"

As far as I have heard, a psy vamp is born. But i have heard of some that teach themselves how to feed in this way, if blood is not readily available

I believe that psy vamps are born as psy vamps, they are not turned.

not that i am aware.

While I understand the philosophy that psy-vamps are born or reborn with this malady, is it not true that often times a psy-vamp awakening is propagated by another? Isn't an awakening a transformation and if another psy-vamp is involved in the transformation isn't that something of a 'turning'?

I have to agree with Felix. Many of us can claim an awakening to energy needs, but how and why are we awakened? From my own personal experience it was from another psy vamp... and that does sound eerily like being turned in some fashion or another.

Also, I'm not a fan of the Codex, but I know it has it's supporters and believers. Doesn't it list specifically two "rituals of initiation"? Why haven't the Codex readers spoken up here? Didn't the thread poster ask if there was a ritual to turn a psy-vamp?

Felix, meeper,

Perhaps too often the word is taken to literally mean 'transformed'.

Perhaps turned towards a new direction of existence, a new meaning to life, might be a more appropriate way to understand it?

Felix,

I can see why it is that you ask, but Jenova and I have been discussing the fundamental basis under which the Codex authors came into their current state of existence.

Stabb - you and Jenovah appear to be discussing the original rituals of the past lives that may have led to the initial creation of the vampire state. Although Jenovah made brief mention of this ritual being possible today, I didn't realize he was also referring to the Codex rituals that are written about as the definitive ways of transforming and initiating the modern psy-vamp from the unaware into the awakened.

PS - you know how I feel about that text but I'm referring to it because of the strong support that it has received from modern psy-vamps and even some of the posters on this thread. I find it odd that they failed to mention it.

Felix,

I may have misunderstood the gist of your question.

I don't believe that the rituals in the Codex are designed to alter the energy body in the same fashion, but rather, to provide a means to understanding how to alleviate the energy deficient condition.

The rituals (as they are written anyway) are designed to shock the unaware into awakening by removing enough energy to create the hunger or make it noticeable. The first with subtlety or safety.

The greater ritual specifically is written as a means of facing the original form and thereby not being able to deny what one is.

Both rituals are a method of turning/transforming/initiating an unawakened psy-vamp into an awakened. And as I said, while the unawakened may still have the inborn potential, it is an example of a ritual that the original poster was asking about. The codex puts it rather clearly written and evidently it was ignored by many of it's readers.

As for non-Codex psy-vamps, I believe that any ritual can be accomplished through which one can discover what or who they are. If that shows them to be a psy-vamp, then that is a 'turning ritual' but I'd like to think that there limitless more positive results to such a ritual that one should strive for in self discovery beyond vampirism which as you have said Stabb, is a weakness.

When you present it in that light, then yes, it is a form of turning one into a new state of being through a designed awakening event.

But does this still not require the basic premise that the system is already in a state of vampiric need and therefore, not a true creation?

It does, but an unawakened vampire (by that logic) would not know what they are and would need the ritual in order to awaken. So a person asking if there is a ritual to turn someone into a psy-vamp may in fact already be one (but unawakened). So to take an elitist line of answering (which the flat answer "you're just born one" takes), could and would likely turn an unawakened vampire off the path of their self-discovery.

Ha!

Then perhaps we are under the cosh of a campaign of misinformation?

lol

Unless mine is the misinformation :)

But it isn't...(unless it is)
Which it isn't...(but it could be)

no

Stabb and others:> The Psychic Vampire Codex makes no mention of the ritual used to become a psychic vampire, it merely makes mention to the ritual having been performed in a previous life.

The fact that they are quiet about said ritual speaks volumes. They don't believe that just anybody who wants to be a psy vamp should be allowed willy-nilly to do conversions.

With regards to your original question, Stabb, I am also not convinced that said chakra modification actually brings about a higher capability to handle energy. It seems to me too that it has the opposite effect... with exception to possibly over lifetimes.

I know where I stand and I know how and when my energy body was damaged. I call it damage because it wasn't intentional. I identify with the psychic vampire because of the energy I need to draw and the lacking of my own subtle body system. I fully expect this to last a lifetime if not several life times. I fully expect to learn how to use it to my advantage rather than be crippled by it. It is not a blessing. It is not a gift, it just is... Maybe in time I will view this differently.

Felix, you put in a good point. The rituals described are not circle rituals, but they make reference to the awakening of a vampire who indeed displays signs of the Kheprian alteration already existing.

However, it still leaves wide open the fact that their alteration had to have occurred some time in the past and that before then, they were normal human beings with a normal subtle body.

It also leaves wide open the fact that the subtle body may be altered through trauma or even by ritual if one were aware in this lifetime how to perform said alteration.

Again, other than what's written in the Codex, they are very quiet about their inner ranks, beliefs, and rituals, so who knows what happens behind their closed doors?

Felix:> last but not least.... I am a "she".

Stabb:> I also dare to mention that those who cannot back up their solid and emphatic "no" answers have never researched the psychic vampire and merely are grabbing onto the mystique of the psychic vampire to make it their own...

Any answer given 'because it just is' is the sure sign of the uneducated and undecided mind. The word "poser" comes to mind rather quickly.

Jenova,

I am glad that we are agreed in the differentiations between rituals.

I wonder then, at the damage aspect.

It may be that alternative states which mirror that of the Kheprian and associated users of the same ritual, can come about through different means, under the same principles of action.

Jenova - my apologies for the mistaken identity :) hard to tell the gender of a statue or iron mask.

So we are able to agree that the Codex makes reference to modern rituals in this life to 'awaken or initiate' the modern vampire. Maybe not a list of instructions but definitely a reference to their existence and widespread use.

Judging from what I've seen of their members...I imagine that any rituals that take place behind closed doors is innocent enough...hokey perhaps but innocent.

"Hokey" is as hokey does. To the outsider it may seem that their rituals are "hokey". To the insider their ritual is real, this is their awakening and anyone who goes through the initial awakening that brings forth and awakens the psychic vampire condition is going to tell you... it isn't pleasant. If I may refer you to my profile, I have an essay on accidental vampirism that might be of interest to you at this point.

Stabb:> The codex makes specific reference to those who also have the psychic vampire alteration obtained by other means. It mentions "others" in a bit of a demeaning tone, but nevertheless, allows for the knowledge that those who are not of the Kheprian household may have obtained their vampiric state by other means.

Jenova said:
"Hokey" is as hokey does.

That would translate (given the "Stupid is as stupid does" meaning) into: A hokey person does hokey things...I'm not sure that's a solid rebuttal.

However, yes I will acknowledge that a ritual is going to be interpreted differently by outsiders but I also acknowledge that the Codex writers have a very dramatic and often fiction based bent to their writing and likely would apply similar bias to their ritual.
i.e.
Hokey: obviously contrived, esp. to win popular appeal or support; phony.

well when put that way, then yes... and it wasn't meant as a rebuttal to your belief that their rituals might be hokey indeed.

what i mean to illustrate is that it seems hokey to us as an outsider perhaps. i've never seen it done, therefore i can't judge readily on whether their initiation into the household is hokey or not.

i do know that they induct members who are not vampiric at all. but yeah, i freely admit that was a terrible "rebuttal" as it were.

No worries...it just means we agree.

My energy body was not damaged, I was not turned, and I was not born. The first time I needed to "feed" was when I used too much of my own energy to help a friend, since the first time I have needed to periodicaly. I can not feel any spiritual damage, my own just doesn't seem to replenish the way it's supposed to. I don't know any other psy-vamps, so if I was turned by one it was without my knowledge. As far as I can tell there is no reason for why I have this problem. On a side note, I have found that it has improved my empathic abilities.

Placid, for all intents and purposes, you are not a vampire. You merely on occasion use too much of your own energy and rather than waiting for it to replenish (as it would naturally) you choose to feed from others to regain it.

You would know if you were a psychic vampire. The change is drastic and it is very noticeable. Personally? Be glad. And if you have the talent to pull energy from others to replenish your own that's a good thing too. Just be glad you don't need it to live a relatively normal life.

Forgive my stupidity but this psy-vamp thing is something that you are either born with or have had some traumatic event happen to you to change you correct? Such a vamp drains the energy off of its prey? Do I have a basic understanding of what I have just read and if so then what happens to the person who has been drained? I assume you mean drained as in tired? Do they just go and rest to reclaim the energy they have lost? Actually, I think I'm lost!

That's what I thought at first Jenova, but I have not done any energy work in a while but I still need to take from others. I ignored the urge once and it got to the point where I was unable to function properly. I couldn't concentrate on anything, I lacked physical coordination, and I was unable to control my emotions for the most part. When I finally gave in, I felt fine.

Psychic vampirism is a state of being that persists over a life time. Wearing yourself out energetically can cause similar symptoms. If you are looking for someone to tell you "yes you are" or "no you aren't", then you're barking up the wrong tree.

For the most part you must determine for yourself. Read (and not on this site) a lot of information. I recommend "The Psychic Vampire Codex", it explained psychic vampirism in terms of energy.

Chances are that if you have just worn yourself out, if you give yourself enough time (and take from others as you will) you will find that it fades. For me, it was a traumatic event and after 4+ years of still being in need energetically I have found that this is the only solution for me.

I recommend : House Kheperu for more information. I'm no expert on it.

Stabb, as I was going over my profile, the other point I was trying to make came to me.

This is my own theory, and I haven't read it anywhere. There have been scientific cases where the human brain has been damaged due to accident and over time, given the strength and will of the person, the brain has been able to assign the functions that were the duty of the damaged part to other parts of the brain.

As an example, I've seen studies where parts of the brain are removed and the brain over time was able to assign the duties of movement and locomotion to another part of the brain that essentially "woke up" and took over the duty. This occurs most commonly in children.

One of my thoughts is that if another part of the brain is taken out of dormancy mode and becomes active, what other abilities could that individual stand to gain as a result of activating that part? Many theorize that the brain follows the holographic model of the Universe and that each part in essence contains the information of the whole brain. So as one part is damaged, there is the potential for another part of the brain to awaken and bridge the functions of the damaged part.

If this is possible physically, then why would it not also be a possibility of the energy body as well? If a chakra were damaged and the rest of the subtle body was required to take over the essential functions of that chakra, would it not be possible for other abilities to deepen and become stronger potentially? Or is it not possible that with the shifting of responsibility in the subtle body that other abilities might indeed awaken? Of course the opposite could happen just as easily.

These are only possibiltiies that I've mused about in the dark hours of the night. I am interested in your thoughts...

thanks for the info Jenova. I'm not seeking someone to tell me what I am, rather, I am seeking insight and information that can help me understand

Placid, if you are a vampire, then you must seek out information. If you are not, then the information will serve you well when it comes to healing. The Psychic Vampire Codex will make sense to you as an energy worker. I highly suggest it.

Psy vamp are born that way, I have never heard someone being turned...
Also for those of you who are psy vampires I'm sorry but I am not sure that this ability of yours is something helpful, good or anything like that...
The last psy vamp I met ended up a really corrupted person. The power he drained from others drove him mad...
Also there rumors that Aleister Crowly was a psy vamp... Powerful but corrupted too... It's really easy to lose control..

Nagini, everyone is different. Trust me when I tell you that it can be used for good. The only way you would lose control is if you never really had it in the first place. I.E. I have a nasty temper that tends to cloud my mind and judgement. I have learned to suppress it enough that it won't show until I'm somewhere this would be acceptable. I am not in control though, just like a frayed rope, I can only hold on so long. With enough discipline I will eventually be in control, the same goes for a psy vamp.

In my experience as a psy or emotical I have never heard of another being turned into a psyonic through exchange of blood or ritual...

turning into a psyonic is a rare occurance and usually developes while the being is still young... usually early teens, and as stated earlier, we do thrive off of the life force and energies of other creatures, to sustain our physical being.

I doubt it- especially being changed by any sort of blood right

Jenova and others--Since I asked for clarification on this psy-vamp thing...thanks. I think I have finally gotten a better understanding of it, how it might work, root causes etc. Just wanted to thank you all. This has been really interesting.

Stabb:> I can appreciate your skepticism. There are still admittedly many avenues and possibilities I haven't explored personally. In the search for answers, we each must evaluate the information given as it applies to our unique circumstances.

I can say personally, that when I had that Event happen, I awakened to some newer possibilities and enhanced ability to sense energy whereas before there was none (that I paid attention to). I look forward to sharing possibilities and ideas together more in the future.

~Jenova

as far as i know ....you have to be born as a psy vamp..that you can not be turned into one.....

looks like this has been answered and you all have the same answer *smile*