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immortality does not have an ending??
but isint there and ending to everything ??

Well,If the world ends..or the sun dies..then there lives will end.IF thats is,
if people are not living in space by then..or whatever.Then again..Immortality is of not the body,its of the spirit..of life lived in spirit form.

maybe.... there was a beginning, so there might be an end, but who knows. maybe we won't even know the end...we don't remember the beginning, right? :)

Yes the world will end, the sun will die...

And true we need to colonize other worlds...

but don't you think the immortality is something that cant be for everything in this world has an end ??

Agreed XXgoddessXofXtheXnightXX there was a begining but doesnt a begining must have an end... and true we might not know the begining but we have witnessed alot of the end dont you think ???

Your right.Immortality is for anyone who wishes not to die,and become pwerfull and masterfull..or above all others.

I guess there IS an end to it, but immortality doesn't necessarily mean the total avoidance of death!
As i understand it, it means that normal life cycles cease to disable the body's functions.
However, i'm pretty sure that if an immprtal were hacked into little pieces and minced, it would certainly cease to exist!
Unlike the movie "Death Becomes Her", there has to be SOME continuity of connective tissue in order to "live".
But then it's half three in the morning here so what do i know? LoL

yes so doesnt that mean it contradicts our way of life...
doesnt that mean that immortality can not be...
no in this world it cant....

but then you lost the meaning of immortality...

doesnt immortality mean the endless life or existence ???

not necessarily. there are things that we cannot fathom because we have never personally experienced it. like in the bible it says that before everything was god and he was there eternally. there was no beginning and will be no end to hime. we cannot even imagine that because there was a beginning to earth in all of the theories about how we came to be here. also like that we cannot imagine something not having an end.

okay but that is taking it to a religous point of view lets say for the people who dont belive in god...
that can prove anything for us...
we need something other then that...

I see exactly what you're saying, but i feel i want to debate both sides of the point for some reason.
I agree with you, but if you speak of societal habits..... then if there IS and end, then "forever" will never exist.
So people Lie to each other when they say "I will love you Forever"
and if Forever DID exist, then surely "Forever and a day" will never arise, as that indicates the END of "Forever" plus 24 hours!
Hmmm....
Also.... in opposition... When somebody passes on from this world to the next, does their soul not exist?
Does their memory still hold? Can we not trace one's family tree back generations?
Surely that means there is no END persé.
Did that make sense? :-|

Yes it makes sense. Ancestrial worship has been around since man first began. So, we are bringing the old generation to the new making a cycle.

But remember, immortality has its roots in the old testament. It was a religious concept. The concept of unending life through God.

yes it does make sence and yes there is no i love you forever it ends at some point when you die ect...

As far as I know, mortality means that there is an end to all existense, physical and spiritual. So therefore if your physical/spiritual body never ceases to exist, then you are immortal. Personally I think everything has an ending point, but that's just me.
Umm did that answer your question? lol.

but i do not agree at some point you can retrace your origins you cant go to the begining of your family tree it will end at some part you cant recover the first one...

I would agree everything evevidably has an ending. But with every ending there is a new begining of something else to carry on. Be it on our miniscule little planet or in the infinate vastness of the universe.

Immortality is referred to as living on this earth forever.

Think about it... Immortality it basically the opposite of being mortal, of not having the worries that mortals have. Indeed immortality gives the impression of life eternal, however, even an immortal life can come to an immortal demise. Not to be negative, but it's just a matter of time if not a mental breakdown or some kind of self destructive behavior. There are many ways an immortal can cease to exist just as there are many ways a mortal may cease to exist.

Just as I said in the other forum about there being an end to every beginning...

Actually, all things do NOT come to an end. Was it not Einstein who proved that energy does not "die" but merely changes forms?

very good point however you life will have an end your form will have an end and what not

My "life" is more than just the vessel I carry my spirit about in. Who's to say it scatters to the four corners as the maggots feast on me? We need to stop obsessing with the physical aspects of ourselves and introvert these questions. Your mind is not your hand, your heart is not your source of emotion -- these are symbols applied for a sense of understanding of ourselves. These symbols utilize the physical in order for our minds to process the information more readily. We limit ourselves, I think.

awesome,... but thats just humans puting an emotinon that dosent have any real existance a life in my opinion

I believe that everything that lives and breathes eventually will die. Logically, there is very little, if anything that is truly immortal.

I believe that things and people can be "immortalized" but even that can change if the right turn of events happens

The alpha and the omega.... everything has a beginning and an end... but is the end of one existance really the beginning of another?

We won't know until ears and eyes have an ending on this earth. Stories sometimes make things immortal. Until there isn't a soul on this rock to be wittness to myths, there will always be immortality.

well to be mortal is to die due to :

1.Aging
2.Disease
3.Trauma

right ????

But imortalitty can be Quantum immortality but then it is a parralel universe and it is not a fact it is just another theory and it says all concious beings are immortal....

like as said before me TheCryingDutchess yes he did say that but even him he said that this will be of the big band theroy we are all working on theories check this link out and look at the bottom of the page this is the link :

http://nostalgia.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang

The Big Crunch = there might be a new begining after the end...

but the rest is just the end... dont you think ??

even the so called space that we say has no ending is said to have an end at some point.

TheCryingDutchess and plz when you talk about a theory please state the name of that theory also plz...

the term immortality means unending existence, therefore I feel it is incorrect because NOTHING lasts forever, hundreds of years, yes, maybe even thousands, but not forever

Finally someone who can agree that it is a incorrect term...

it is...maybe it should be "resiliency" instead of immortality

yes that sounds more logic that is what Vampires really are they are not Immortals but rather they recover rapidly from illness and any other obstacle...

There is always an ending, when the world ends it will end all life from mortals to the imortal. if there is a begining there has to be an end.

Everything is made up of energy and energy never really dies so their for when we die we are still around and i think that makes us immortal...

Immortality (or eternal life) is the concept of living in physical or spiritual form for an infinite length of time. What form an unending or indefinitely-long human life would take, or whether the soul, should such a thing exist, possesses immortality, has been the subject of much speculation, fantasy, and debate.

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Immortality from Wikipedia.org

What I had mentioned earlier was basically my opinion on the "physical" life. There has been much debate of course about the spirit living on after the physical body has died. As far as spirits go, yes I believe that spirits can live on forever without limits. But, vampires are not spirits now are they? Heh, so, all they have is their flesh. Vampires are more "resilient"... I like that term, I think that is definitely a better term to use for vampires rather than immortal.

well, christians believe that when you die, your soul goes on forever...and that is basically immortality...so, dependind souly on your beliefs, there could be an end.

I do believe that everything will end, it had to begin, thus creating an end. Everything that begin has to end at one point. Life might continue on after death, but not if there isn't a planet for life to continue on.

I belive that the so called spirits have an ending 2 since it had a begining thus will mean it will have an end...

The problem with this theory of beginning and ending, (forgive me for being the devils advocate here) is that no one will ever know if the soul actually had a beginning, or when a soul/s were born... So, with that said, how can one truly know if it has an end if no one knows when the beginning started?

Hmm...good point vampiress25...

my opinion on immortality is that it's a word used 'cuz we really don't have a concept/word/etc for anything which can live thousands of years or is as hard to kill as a vampire is/would be.

I find it hard to digest, something being impossible to kill, so in my little mind there is an end to everything, even a thousands of years old vampire.

So for me, immortality is just something/someone who is extremely hard to kill and old. Like...well..old is a bad word to use I s'pose, but someone/something who has lived hundreds to thousands of years.

Well i believe the soul is immortal and even after this world ceases to exist it is my belief that the soul will continue its journey on other levels of existance.

everything dies sooner or latter i dont believe anything or anyone that is immortal. Yes some say the sole lives on and on but sooner or latter it dies to. The most powerful thing in this universe is the sun and that is believed to be dieing out so immortality in my books dont exsist, just things live longer then others

I believe everything has an ending. Sort of like on Buffy, lol. Those vamps were immortal... to a point.

I think that Immortality is just anything that last longer than a normal life expectancy. Who's to say how long it would really last for.

The movie terms Vamps immortal. This is not the case in the real world. NO ONE is immortal. The body does wear out and you will die one day. I don't know, but if there is immortal life out there, let me know how to get some of that becuase I would love to hang around longer... see what we do to each other you know.

there are things that never die. Here is a basic description. Humans are made of energy. Energy is electrical. Electricity can never die it can only change current position or form. Since humans are made of energy that is electrical then when we die we do not entinguish the electricity and energy it just changes forms into another form. Immortallity is essentially what everything in this world has. Plants may die but they will come back in a few months. Most of life follows this.

I dont agree with that theory, I'm trying to respect your opinion but BS what your saying would mean when i die ill come back maybe in a different form, I'm not trying to make enemies or disrespect anyone, but how am i to belive some of you had past lives and are here now i dont belive that I'm not trying to call anyone a liar or anything its just a concept i don't belive everything has an ending, for it had a start, are you trying to tell me the population keeps increasing if we only come back and nothing else then why does our population add cuz there are new souls, can you prove spirits and souls, i dont think anyone can.

energy lives for ever it can change shapes but it never dies and is not limited to our understanding

I agree with you enchanted1369, there are "some" things in this world which will never die... but you know there is a little thing that tells me you should never say never or always, because it is something that cannot be proved. There is no never for anything nor will there be an always.

Well I agree with LadyWinterRouge on the belief that the soul is immortal and no matter what happens to the flesh the soul lives on ..

yes things must come to an end but how im not sure espescially with immortality

i agree with clover on this one yes everything must come to an end but then when u think about it when we die is it really over or do we really go on in heaven or hell? and as for us immortals i think the only way we could possibly end is to be killed.

That is the point im trying to prove that there is no such thing as immortality not even with your own soul at some point it began so some point it should go bye bye/

my question is how can we know or even recognize "infinity"? How can we know immortality if it "never ends".... We know it "because" it never ends. For example, consider the limit (L) of the calculus, no matter how hard you try you can never reach (L), the process of trying to reach (L) = infinity. Second, consider the number line, both positive and negative, no matter how hard you try you can never find the "ends of the line", --again, the process of taking a new number and forming union with the line = infinity. The immortal is like the infinite, it is never whole, it is never complete, it is always "taking a part outside what has been already taken" (from Aristotle, Physica, Book III, Chapter 6).

so in theory immortality exists only in mathematical eqautions and physics.

The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering. -St. Augustine

Immortality doesn't end natually; meaning you can't die because you're old/sick etc. It can end however if, say, you were blown into a thousand pieces or burned to ash. Then I think even the immortal would die then.

If you read what i have posted previously you wouldve seen that i stated : to be mortal is to die due to :

1.Aging
2.Disease
3.Trauma

but i guess you didnt read the posts before you before posting yours.

to be mortal is to die

to be immortal is to live forever. there is no end even when everything else comes to an end the immortal will still exist. is that not the meaning of immortality?

what would be the point of having immortality if its going to end?

Exactly so there is no such thing as immortality.

oh but there is immortality.... do our souls die? No there are the immortality in all of us. they cannot die the just go from body to body house to house and when every things else ceases to exisit they still live on so yes there is immortality but not in a body form

No there isint can you prove that you have a soul even, NO YOU CAN'T...

And everything and i state EVERYTHING that has a begining has an ending, and what your staing is when ill die ill live again....
emm so now ive lived over how many times now !!!!!!!!

and if its that then why do we have souls born every day ????

if there is a Birth for a soul then there should be Death for it 2, as i have stated before our human population keeps increasing, and that means more and more of the so called souls, if our souls where the ones who came back and where immortal then that should mean none would be born everyday no ???

since the population is not constantly the same and only keeps increasing it mean more and more souls which means... emm wait let me think oh yeh the so called souls are having some fun 2 and creating there own popultaion....

ok so its a hot topic.... but did you not post this thread to get the opinion of everyone else?

and in my beliefs what i stated above I BELIEVE to be true and in your beliefs you BELIEVE it to be false. but i ask again did you not post this thread to get other opinions on the subject or only the opinions that follow your own beliefs?

its just a question not an insult or to throw something in your face........

I think it's all a matter of what you believe in. You say we can't prove if we have souls, yet you can't prove that we don't. It's all a mater of opinion. I personally believe in reincarnation, I do believe that the soul is the only thing one could classify as "immortal".

Yes i did for peoples opinions but i also gave you reasons and can you answer me its your own beliefe aint it so you should have answers to my question no ??

and dont worry im not insulted but i follow up any opinion and state my opinion if i agree or disagree if this topic was not of interest to me then i wouldnt be bothering to read what you wrote so i guess i asked you and gave you reasons why i disagree....

now can you anwser my questions of my previous post ?

well im sure that our souls are somewhere having a little fun of their own making new little souls. and yes i do agree that everything has a beginning but im not sure i believe that it will all have an end. take the universe for example it is said to go on for infinity.... and that would mean not having an end. but it had to be created once there for it had a beginning but where is its end?

im sorry i have to go back and read again im trying to do 3 things at once i will have more in a few minutes to your response lol

immortalxkiss, Cuz its a matter of logic, how can such a thing exist, if it does not have an end, then our own souls will be gods, since they have the abilty to be untoushable, and, unkillable, that not only is it mortal, then such a thing can not be born, and can not become since it is mortal to be born, and have a begining is it not ?

CynthiaS if you read my previous posts you wouldve read the post where i stated there is an end to it... and there is a link that explains it read up there....

i think immortal kiss has a very good point as well if we cant prove that it does exist how can we prove that it doesnt?

i also believe in reincarnation only because i believe i have seen it first hand now as for proving it i cant do that but that is why i TRY and use the word BELIEF in all my responses.

I believe that my brother was reincarnated into my son. now as i have no hard scientifical proof for this. i see it in his eyes. i see what i once saw in my brother now in my son. i would like to elaberate on that but not here because it will take up a lot of space in this thread.

see i dont believe in the soul dying because i believe they were all created to last forever. just as in some cultures and beliefs god will not die he cannot die and he will be there forever imortal in every sense of the word. he created what is today.... now i said some cultures the thought on good are not entirly my beliefs but does that not raise a good point on immortality?

And i already stated a comment on immortalxkiss comment so if you want my anser read what i posted previously.

I will not state on the comment CynthiaS for it will be insensitive of me so i will not respond to that only cuz it would be an insensitive responce if i do so i will not say anything but that does not mean i agree....

And i have already stated about souls i disagree and everything that is born will meet its death...

Serenatous

I agree with your logic. As a science teacher I see the logic in your equation above and in your posts.

But, let me ask you a question...Do you ever just go on blind faith? We have a beginning and an end. We are the Alpha and the Omega...sound familiar?

We, as humans, believe that there is something unique about us. We have faith that we are possessors of souls. We don't know the logic behind this. We just believe.

Trivia
1st let me sat thank you for taking the time to read my prior posts.

2nd let me say something as a man who has no faith in souls and in religion due to there own contradictions in the so called books of god like the bible and the kouran for the Muslims ect.... they say god has always been there and will always be there and in a part of the kouran it is said that god does not exist any where... for people who say god is immortal should really check about what the soo called book of god has inside...

3rd thank you really for reading my prior posts most people dont bother and state what i already stated previously ...

everything does end. that goes without saying.

"and if its that then why do we have souls born every day ????

if there is a Birth for a soul then there should be Death for it 2, as i have stated before our human population keeps increasing, and that means more and more of the so called souls, if our souls where the ones who came back and where immortal then that should mean none would be born everyday no ???"

Hmmm, an interesting thought.. Are "new" souls born everyday? OR are they reincarnated souls from beings who have died? That is another good question I think should try to be answered.

I agree with you that if something has a beginning, then it SHOULD have an ending, but there is no way to prove either side of the spectrum. Thus the faulty nature of the question. I agree with your scientific proof of mathematic equations, but how can that be related to life? Math is math. Ok, physics is getting to be more real, but spirituality does not have anything to do with physics does it? The metaphysical is what should be looked upon. Like I said before, I do not think there will ever be an answer to that. But it does lead to a very interesting forum thread ;)

The true definition of immortality is forever... no end. From the naturlists point of view everything is in cycles ... no end... no beginning... just continuation... just because a thing dies does not mean that the cycle has ended... only continued on in another form... Albert Einstien stated it best when referring to the transferr of energy throughout he cosmos: : : : there is never anything ever lost or gained (energy) only changed into anoother form.

Thank you for reading my previous post :)...

1st about that souls being born or reincarnated its easy to answer if you think about it logically then its born since every death has 2 new Born's you can research that if you want... so that means one soul down 2 are up unless every time you die your soul is divided to 2 then that is different...

2nd i agree it does not have anything related to do with life itself but it does with immortality that is why i posted the equation I'm trying to show you where the only place i belive such a thing which is immortality and is infinite can only be found in such an equation...

3rd yes it does doesn't it and especially what a debate... and point of views you can have with other people :D...

DeathDruid even Einstein stated there is an end to this world and it might have a beginning... i stated that before and what you stated has been stated before so plz do read the previous posts cuz your only repeating what they said and that shows other people what your character is and that you dont care your just posting for posting points...

Serenatous it has been scientificly proven that energy can neither be created or destroyed as others have pointed out. Energy merely changes from one form to another. I dont remember where I read it but there was supposed to be a study that showed there is the same amount of life on the planet as there has always been just in different forms. In past ages there were more animals but as the human population groes the animal population shrinks so that could fit the reincarnation theory. Some native americans believe that when a man and woman procreate that part of the man's life essence or spirit is transferred to the woman. They believe that is why the man is tired after sex and the woman is energetic after sex. When the child is born it has part of the essence of both parents. I personally believe that we have souls and that they are immortal. If we don't have souls and there is no afterlife then life is really kind of pointless. Unless something changes the universe I believe all living things physical bodies will die. Someone said that no one can trace thier family tree all the way back to the begining but there are some jewish people that know thier family tree all the way back to Adam and Eve.

Nothing actually ends,but it only changes its form( in to another)....

here's something for you to ponder where's the end of a circle?

Wolvie
1st I was the one who said that and i really cant belive that there is someone who has retraced his whole family tree back to Adam and eve he probably just choose random people in the end if what your saying is true, if you think about it we are all family and we are all related since we come from Adam and eve right...

2nd I have previously stated that you can only find immortality in math and physics equations.
3rd When it comes to a circle, the circle is one of the purest and most common symbol in existence, infinite billions of stars, planets, moons and galaxies full of the same, the circle is well represented in the physical universe in the form of spheres right ? and since a circle has no beginning or end, represents infinity and eternity.

4th yes you just made my point even more convincing and more clearer you can only find eternity in math and physics.

As has already been mentioned- if the world was to be destroyed, then either that would end immortality, or you would have beings floating around in space for eternity!

I personally do not believe in immortlity.

Serenatous and Wolvie


Science has traced the origins of our planet back to what is now the popular theory. We are all evolved from hard hydrogen which converted from hydrogen in the atmosphere due to interactions with other elements like carbon. This website puts it in really simple form: http://www.moorlandschool.co.uk/earth/earthorigin.htm

Now, the question becomes: is this information true? It is as true as science can make it. Man has used mathematics to form a common language that allows us to figure out the universe.

So, with science eternity can be found. We have gone 4 billion years into the past…what is the problem with going that far into eternity? Of course we will be a dead planet by then 

Yes a circle is pure. And yes you can find immortality in science and math. But, you have to continue to add in the human spirit. As I stated before, we are unique and you have no way to factor that in to math and science. So we are all right and we are all wrong.

Thats an interesting definition of what enternity is -good post.

Trivia - interesting information thank you! But you were asking if it is true or not... Well, you just answered your own question and the answer is that it is a THEORY, theories can be proven wrong or right or not be able to be proven at all either way. This new popular theory that you discussed in your post is just that.. a theory. We have no way of knowing in the present time about the validity of such a theory. There was also a theory long ago about the earth being flat, which we have thus proven to be wrong and is not a theory anymore, but a fact...

So, I think that immorality could also be considered a theory. The theory of immortality. Is there such a thing or not?

I agree that energy is immortal because the amount of it does not decline or become greater, however the theory of individual immortality I think becomes more of a spirituality issue rather than a flesh and blood issue.

Vampiress

My point exactly. It is a theory and immortality is a theory also!

on one is immortial. no matter how hard we wish we could be, but nothing is forever. mountains crumble, people die. nothing is forever!!

cool Trivia :D I was just pointing out my agreement with you. :)

Thank you Trivia thank you very much for sharing with us it is a very interesting theory thus as Vampiress25 said its just a theory but for me it seems more logical that nothing is immortal i think energy must change at some point or deplete.

Serenatous the jewish people that truely know thier family all way back to adam and eve belong to a "sect" that every generation adds thier names to the tree as the family progresses.

Go to google and type in Adam and Eve Family Tree and be prepared to read. I am sure that if I could get past the hungarian branch of my family tree I could do the same thing.

i seriously dono jack shit about my family tree from my dads side itll be cool if you can find stuff hehe ... but maybe but i trully dont belive that though think about it your telling me back in the stone age people where smart enough to do that ?

we're kind of getting away from your original topic. We've established that there are things that neither have a begining or ending. So why cant a soul be immortal? I don't know of any religion that doesn't believe that the soul, spirit, essence or whatever you prefer to call it is immortal. That is a common belief in every society as far as I know. The physical body is another matter I cant remember if it was Iron Maiden or Metallica that had a line in a song "as soon as your born you're dying". Proof of that is the fact that the only visible living on a human body(without cutting into it) are the eyes. Your outer layers of skin, hair, finger nails and even the skin on your tongue is composed of "dead" cells. Maybe non-functional would be better since even a dead cell is composed of atoms and all atoms contain energy. If we follow that line of reasoning maybe are bodies are immortal just not in a way we recognise?

I think that everything will end at some point.

Trivia I need to go check out that site! It sounds really cool. I would love to know how far back my blood line runs.

I believe immortality really refers to the fact the we are born, we live, we die and we arise and live again. Like a phoenix rising from it's ashes, if we are smart enough or lucky enough we do better in the next life.

I have to agree and disagree. Yes the skin is covered in dead cells…every minute 30,000 to 40,000 fall from your body. But, this is happening because the skin is alive and constantly renewing itself.

As for atoms and energy…when we die most of our atoms are recycled into other things. The structure of the atom changes so non-functional is, I think, a good “name” for these atoms. So, your question deserves a valid, lucid answer. I am going to try!

We constantly get rid of the dead cells off our bodies. These cells have changed molecular or atomic structure…they have died (to use a word from our vocabulary). But in death they have changed structure making them new again. Is that immortality you ask? No. Why? Because the structure of the atom is changing, the change makes it no longer as the original was. Therefore, the original is dead.

Don’t yell at me ya’ll! I am just really into this type of science right now! I am teaching physics next year!

Oops. My previous post was to Wolvie...

I think both Trivia and Wolvie have valid points here. Trivia I have to agree with you and it makes perfect sense! Eventhough those cells die and take on a new "purpose", they are changing from their original form so the original has died....therefore, our human flesh is not immortal. *sorry for sounding redundant*! lol

this is remerakebly like the time travel debate..........minus the religion bit

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