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hisdarkestdream
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23:06:26 Jun 22 2007
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U know how people talk about Dream lands and how we also hear about Astral Projection (Traveling)? Well what if we actually leave our bodies during our sleep and dreams and go to the "dream land" and actually live a whole nother life? What if when we're awake we r dreaming in "dream land"?




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cursedNdrained
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23:20:26 Jun 22 2007
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It would be pretty sweet in ways , but i think not in more ways just because living one life at a time is enough for me



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hisdarkestdream
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23:24:11 Jun 22 2007
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That is true. I can only take one life. It's hard enough. But it's just a thought.



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Leeambre
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23:42:25 Jun 22 2007
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I think when you have an extremely vivid dream with distinct colours (normally, people dream in black and white) it's possible we are astrally projected. That may also explain the sudden jerk after such dreams, as if you've jolted back into yourself. But, since I have no idea otherwise, who knows.



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deathnitegrl
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00:02:04 Jun 23 2007
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In this life you have to live the life you have.

In dreams you can build a fantasy land.

You are still living one life,the difference is that in one things get the way you want them,or else you can get symbols of an issue you might be ignoring or what is going to happen in the future or just scare you with nightmares.

For some beleivers we Astral travel to another world when we dream.



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LifeLess
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00:04:24 Jun 23 2007
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hisdarkestdream, i love the idea of being truly awake only when we are dreaming. maybe when we dream we just travel to a paralell world and time.
or maybe it's just our subconscious's way of letting us know we want an escape...



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LuciferRising
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00:04:46 Jun 23 2007
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I like the questions, hisdarkestdream, but it puts a scary spin on my dreams. I feel safer with the traditional, psychological explaination of dreams. Or mind builds it; it is unique to the dreamer, and you do not leave that room you sleep in.



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Darkfairie
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00:48:28 Jun 23 2007
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well it is certainly possible to leave your body while your sleeping. i know people who have done it. but sometimes all we are doing when we dream is working through issues that we have about things, and everyone dreams, even if you dont remember dreaming. as for it being another world we we live another life, i doubt it, but that is my opinion.



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Drakontion
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01:18:09 Jun 23 2007
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BulletsandOctane, you don't dream at all? Or you just don't remember your dreams?



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firesstar
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01:22:14 Jun 23 2007
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I leave my body either in my sleep or in astral projection itself. I really enjoy doing it....the only bad part is if I get attacked in my sleep. I use to have pictures of the marks left in my sleep...I've learned to control it though...



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hisdarkestdream
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02:04:33 Jun 23 2007
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That's good. That way nobody will see them. That way they don't think ur abused or something.



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CynthiaS
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03:21:45 Jun 23 2007
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im pretty sure you can leave your body while you are sleeping... and im more than pretty sure that i have done it a few times... i like the idea of having a second life in the dream world though



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XBetrayedX
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03:25:48 Jun 23 2007
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I am pretty sure that you can leave your body while you sleep, but it has been a while since I have dreamed. I highly doubt that there is a place called dreamland. Dreams are merely you subconscious mind at work. I guess I just kind of contradicted my self. I guess if you dream of fake crap then that is your subconscious mind and if you dream of something that could actually be happening, or if you feel as if you are in an entirely different place, then you have left your body. This is a really interestin thread, it has really made me think.



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xtremehate
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03:31:49 Jun 23 2007
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It is an interesting thought that our dream land could be another realm to live and play, but I do agree, you would still be living one life. To be able to coexist in both places at the same time would be what it would take to actually be living two lives, and that is not something that dreams do.



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XBetrayedX
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03:35:37 Jun 23 2007
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I agree that it is a really interesting concept, but I find it hard to believe that we could have two lives. That we live in another realm why we sleep. If that were true then why do some of us not dream. I dream at least three times a week but not all the time. I hope that's not strange.



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Sonneillon
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05:16:15 Jun 23 2007
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I think this is just a little too far-fetched to contemplate.



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smidged
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05:21:49 Jun 23 2007
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i love this idea but it kinda scares me to. i've had a lot of premonition dreams that just wouldn't make sense to me if this were actually possible. but i do believe in astral projection and understand a lot of the dangers w/ in.



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LONELYxLOVELYxQUEEN
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06:16:57 Jun 23 2007
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yeah, i kind of think that we do. i have vivid dreams of a different life, and i have more fun in it. its like a different time and im a different person. someone id rather be in reality.



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Livathus
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06:33:27 Jun 23 2007
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I dunno, if the real world is our dreams and being awake is fantasy, I'm thinking I'm leading a few too many lives, ya know what I mean? I go from running from .. things .. to attacking old ladies in a basketball court in the middle of a grassy field on Pluto.

I just don't think my other self is capable of moving around that fast.

Not to mention I definitely don't get laid THAT often. Haha.



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lavisbre
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06:41:29 Jun 23 2007
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Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes



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GMOnyx
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07:42:05 Jun 23 2007
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"Am I a man dreaming at night I am a butterfly, or a butterfly, dreaming at this very moment I am a man??"



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jamesreven
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07:44:38 Jun 23 2007
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life is but a dream for the dead



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xxEmaeraldxx
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10:35:51 Jun 23 2007
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Lavisbre, is that your own saying, I like it a lot! As much as I like to think outiside of the box, I really don't think its possible to live another life in our dreams. Well, physically our bodies couldnt take it, and secondly we remember parts of dreams that are not correlated with any logical living



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baroquewood
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11:07:12 Jun 23 2007
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What if our dreams are actually memories of past lives coming through our subconscious to remind us of lessons we've learned in the past so that we do not make the same mistakes time and again.



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CryingMist
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14:12:31 Jun 23 2007
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I do astral projection often when awake and mostly when I dont want to, as for dream I get several that are violent and I do get bruses, I dont think they are related but it did happen a couple of times i had the impression I wa in an astral projection, but tured out I was actually attack by spirits and this is wy I had bruses.



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Sonneillon
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15:14:00 Jun 23 2007
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Well, if our dreams are our past lives, then I've lived MANY past lives, lol. Is it possible? It could be I guess, but I don't know for sure and neither does anyone else.



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blackenedXXXrose8293
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15:45:40 Jun 23 2007
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I think that most of out dreams are astral projection, but I do not believe that this is dreamland and that we live another life.



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hisdarkestdream
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17:13:31 Jun 23 2007
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It's possible that our dreams r our memories but sometimes I'll dream of a person that I haven't talked to in forever and all of a sudden they start talking to me the next day. It's kinda freaky.



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firesstar
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20:05:37 Jun 23 2007
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The first attack I had while in the dream was done by a golden dragon...later I found out it ended up being my former best friend's guardian...



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Panthra
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20:10:09 Jun 23 2007
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bullet, i have the same curiosity do you not dream at all, or do you not just remember your dreams..... and as for other lifes well with this life i am more into liveing one life at a time



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Mystic
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20:16:50 Jun 23 2007
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i cant say that the two planes meet as the such but do know that dreams can be premonitive



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Veracious
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20:17:20 Jun 23 2007
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i really dont think that at all because we dont have as much feeling as we do right now. This dream land do u remember thinking at all? I think that right now you have one life and when a person does go into "dream world" there most likey on an other astral plain



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menerfecious
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22:55:14 Jun 23 2007
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My dreams are very gruesome and also are very very vivid. I dream about my past lives. In that I have to say that if we were experiencing reality while asleep and dreamt during the day, then i live a very extroadinary life spanning over 4000 years LOL.

M



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SalemsxAngel
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23:00:52 Jun 23 2007
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Dreams are so complex..there are so many diffrent ways people explain them..i was told many years ago by sumone who thought that dreams were memories of a past life. Now im not so sure about that, but i have this dream book that tells you what your dreams mean..its pretty cool. That dream land idea..is...well i guess in a way can be believeable(sorry 4 the spelling)..Some nights i dream some nights its black....so its so hard to say



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NurseWicked
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23:26:30 Jun 23 2007
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I have some of the most off the wall dreams. If I am dreaming now and that is real the world is alot more messed up that I thought.



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hisdarkestdream
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23:37:38 Jun 23 2007
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Some of ur answers r making me laugh but I enjoy reading what u guys think. And that book about what ur dreams read must be pretty kool. What's it called?



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SalemsxAngel
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01:11:27 Jun 24 2007
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This is a great subject that u choose..and it raises many answers..lol...the book i have which is the best in my opinion then many others is called 10,000 dreams interpreted its a dream dictionary...i would recomend it..it has great pictures and a great intro. You should deffiantly check it out.



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thedarkx
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14:27:37 Jul 05 2007
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dreams are our mind's eye working...



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XTCraver
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14:29:52 Jul 05 2007
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then i'd be a pretty active woman in my dreams. in the past week i've fought zombie aligators with a shot gun on a pirate ship and flawlessly jumped down 100 feet in a circus and everybody thought i was part of the show :)



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Whipped
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15:05:27 Jul 05 2007
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That sounds very Kool, yet my dreams are mostly premonitions or warnings. I feel alot of people have these yet do not open up their minds to actually believe it could be real or happen, yet a dreamland would be nice to just get away from it all. :)



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BloodLust1724
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15:35:35 Jul 05 2007
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that really makes a lot of sense and would be awesome. to have two lives. each of them, the other lifes dream. i think anything is possible in this crazy world. it would be amazing, especially if you always remember ur dreams.



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DFlycutter
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15:47:02 Jul 05 2007
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that would be sweet. But what if some random soul takes your body in the process? Answers anyone.



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KrazyKate666
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15:53:56 Jul 05 2007
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I've wondered a lot about things like this myself...it seems we may never find the answer but I'm trying to be positive about it and hope for the best b/c that is one thing I MUST know before I die...



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hisdarkestdream
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20:43:27 Jul 05 2007
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If our soul is possessed in our "dreams" then it's only possessed in that life. Is what I figure I mean it's possible that our soul can be possesed on earth but who knows. Good question.



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WynterMourn
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23:41:44 Jul 05 2007
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I totally believe we an make some connection in our dreams, but I'm not sure about it being a whole seperate world. I've had some dreams that turn into deja vu and some are just poppycock



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CelestiaNocturne
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02:13:28 Jul 06 2007
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Isint one, in a way, living a whole nother life in Dreamland? If dreams are the subconscious' way of manifesting the dreamer's deepest desires and fears, wouldn't it seem that in Astral, or in Dreams, one can live another 'life' to aliveate the fears or be happy witht he desires?



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Tzaddi
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02:18:42 Jul 06 2007
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It seems that there are many theories. I must add mine. I think dreams are a way for the self conscience to blow off steam. Sometimes dreams are meaningful, but most are random things that are all garbled up. Those who are "psychic" have more meaningful dreams than others. If you really want to have some whacked out dreams, try eating spicy food before bed. If I want to freak myself out, this is an excellent way to do so. :P



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Diemos
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04:45:44 Jul 06 2007
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Dreams may be a way of communication from our dead loved ones also......my sister came to me in a dream once and tried to warn me about something so you never know......dreams are a mystery to me



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BatsysBabe
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05:27:43 Jul 06 2007
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Pretty interesting question, hisdarkestdream , sometimes it feels like that's a good posibility, but I doubt it, though, that we have more than one life to juggle around. That would be too much for me to handle.

There are different types of dreams that we experience. I've heard many times that we all have dreams, but when we think we don't, it's just that we don't remember them. I had a period of time in my life that it seemed I no longer had dreams, but I started telling myself each night that if I was still having dreams, that I wanted to wake up remembering them, and for a while it wasn't happening, but I was persistant and in time I gradually started remembering bits and pieces of my dreams, and sometimes even more. I don't always remember my dreams, but I do know now that I have them.

Leeambre, you mention that normally, people dream in black and white... I have never ever had a black and white dream. All the dreams that I can recall have always been in full color. It's interesting to me that some people do experience them in black and white.

Well here's some information that I came accross and I think some of you may find useful. Some of you may agree, and some of you may not, but it's worth sharing...

Dreams may be many different things. Every dream experience is one of 5 kinds:

The Prophetic Dream (witnessing the future during sleep) It is in this dream that you'll experience what your dream was about... in other words a dream that does come true.

The Release Dream (the dream in which we dispose of every day mental and emotional issues we collect. Some release dreams are silly and worth only a good brief chuckle when we wake up, others may be nightmares.These dreams are important because without them we'd all be either chronically stressed out or completely psychotic)

The Wish Dream (these are dreams of the wonderful reflections of what we want, or at least what we think we want, and we usually wake up from them with a smile and a certain sense of satisfaction)

The Information or Problem Solving Dream (Ever fallen asleep worried about a problem and wake up the next morning with a solution? These type of dreams are just that. Many dream experts assure us that we really had the solutions all along, it's jut that during sleep we're relaxed enough to let our confusion unravel and the solutions clearly reveal themselves. Others believe in a different explanation to these type of dreams.)

Astral Dreams or Astral Visits (They may appear to be a dream, but they feel as real as anything else during our waking moment. In these "dreams", our conscious minds are resting and our spirits, alive and thriving in our subconscious minds, are set free to touch those other spirits, other places, and other times they're yearning for.



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Arana
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06:48:02 Jul 06 2007
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Like dreaming of being awake when ur asleep
so what ur asking
is
is life a dream?
interesting thaought. but its counter each other out
if when where dreamimg were really alive and when we r awake we r really dreaming...
@_#
my head hurts from this question



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EternalTears
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06:53:42 Jul 06 2007
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it would be awesome to actually live some of my dreams.. they are very vivid.. and oftentimes i wake myself up laughing.. they usually put me in a good mood... but then there are the nightmares.. that no one should be living.. and that would be the downside of things..



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xXxSlaveAngelxXx
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07:27:19 Jul 06 2007
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You've gone Matrix style with this question but it is a good one..... I think there are two different realities when it comes to sleep and being awake.... In my dreams I get to relive past lives and experience new things that when I'm awake I'm to affraid of doing.... I notice a definet difference between the two but everyonce in a while they cross..... for me it is very rare but it has happened...



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milwaukeden
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07:28:14 Jul 06 2007
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As for myself, i know my dreams are always in color, and very real. I had read a book once that said keep a journal beside your bed, and when you wake, try to write down your dream. I did this, and because if it, have been abel to recall most all of my dreams.
I have felt many jolts while sleeping, and have had many dreams where I was flying, those were the best dreams!! There has been one dream that has come back time and time again. Involving a woods, stream, very realxing.
I will leave you with this last one. A few years ago, my mother passed away. We had talked about her situation about what to do if she ever went on life support. She said that she didn't want that. It came to light that she eventually did go on it, and I had to make the hardest decision of all, and that was to take her off life support. Then after a month or two, I was still wondering if I had done the right thing. Well she came to me in a dream, one that was so real, I could touch her, smell her. We hugged, I cried, I cried so hard, I woke up cring. It was then I realized that she was happy, and I had done the right thing.



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LordRazr
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08:16:35 Jul 06 2007
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it's a trip but I've been there when i'm dreaming i do seem to leave my body and travel else where i se it i hear it and i feel it



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BloodxXxOverDose
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10:04:30 Jul 06 2007
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i think that anything is possible and specially when in a state of dream as our minds can use other parts of our own brain that it does not use regualrly when awake. it could be possible that when dreaming we are in fact entering another realm of existence and not be fully aware of it.



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hisdarkestdream
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15:39:13 Jul 06 2007
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The reason I've asked the question is because of the theory...the falling dream...if u hit the bottom u die. That's y I brought this up. I mean what if we did hit the bottom. Would we die? Cause I always jerk myself awake before I do.



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GrieviousDemon
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15:53:22 Jul 06 2007
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well honestly its pretty much a mental thing .. if you think your gonna die when your falling .. Your mind actually thinks you are and you get and agreneline overload and basically have a heartattck in your sleep .. if you cancontrol this you can hit the bottom as they say and be fine .. For the few that say they dont dream .. lol.. you do .. the average person dreams at least 16 times a night .. whether you remember them is another thing ..

I myself have learned to control alot of my actions in my dreams .. Just something I have done for years .. Maybe this is why I remeber most of the more vivid dreams I have.. To reach astral projection takes time and practice .. I find meditation helps me .. which I learned during martial arts at a young age .. this is most likely the main reason I am ableto dothe things in my dreams .. or even astral projection..



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SanityLost
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16:03:32 Jul 06 2007
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Perhaps that is the reason people go into acoma, they don't return? lol



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GrieviousDemon
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16:16:45 Jul 06 2007
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I think a coma is more of a tradic event lil brother.. but it is very quite possible.. I have a few things in my journal about astral projection and even meditation technics to help you to obtain astal projection.. My technics might not work for everyone as the mind is different for everyone and reacts to the individual.. I was trained in meditation which makes it easier for me



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bloodrose24
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18:33:20 Jul 06 2007
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i think our dreams are just something that our minds like to wonder. my dreams are not from a past life or traveling somewhere, my dreams are something that my mind is thinking at that time. like last night i was dreaming that i was going to a big theater to watch something and at the same time i had to go some where. dreams are just thoughts that we think before our eyes close.



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RAVENdelajour
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19:38:29 Jul 06 2007
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That would be beautiful...maybe it is true, we can't know everything.



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Calamity
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19:44:14 Jul 06 2007
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if we astral project when we sleep would it be the same if we zone out when we are awake?



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GrieviousDemon
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21:32:39 Jul 06 2007
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I think that astralprojection could be possible during the day if thats what your asking..



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BloodMoonAngel
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23:01:14 Jul 06 2007
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Just like Sigmund Freud said that dreams believed that have hidden meanings to satisfy unconscious sexual and aggressive disires........



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xxLadyShadoxx
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17:37:53 Jul 07 2007
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When I can remember my dreams they seem to be of past lives



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wolfhowle
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17:49:42 Jul 07 2007
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mybe you are right my be we do leave our bodys when we sleep who knows but when i dream and something happens it feels like it really happen to me but ya



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CryingMist
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In order for one to die for real because they die in the dream land, it need to be a really strong fear to cause such a terrible pain or fear to kill you, it can also be just such a happiness you decid not to wake up in a way that you were doing an astral travel and stayed there with tohers that were already dead, this is rare, but it is posislbe, I do beleive it would me be fear or pain that coudl cause death, but it is still possible.



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RAVENdelajour
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21:54:47 Jul 07 2007
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Dreams are a beautiful thing but they can also turn bad and I've had that before but luckily I've never had nightmares...maybe once or twice but not that bad.



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hisdarkestdream
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23:08:48 Jul 07 2007
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I see where ur getting at. It would be facing the fear of falling to ur death.



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VampirePrincess00
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05:22:19 Jul 08 2007
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i think that would be cool. i think i technically already do live another life in the dream realm.



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twilightsmile
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05:24:00 Jul 08 2007
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I suppose it's possible. However I wouldn't want to be living another life in dream land only to be stuck in a nightmare lol.



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silentwoman
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05:43:42 Jul 08 2007
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i personaly think that it is possible that we create a world, or another reality.
i've heard several people say that people dream in black and white, but in my case it's not true i dream in vivid color



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hisdarkestdream
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18:28:13 Jul 08 2007
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I also dream in color. I've never had a dream in black and white. I mean it would be kool to I guess.



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xDarkxGoddessx
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18:31:58 Jul 08 2007
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That might be true. I've also thought about the possibility that we're dreaming right now and our dreams are our real life. I came up with that theory when I was like 7. But still, that could be possible. My friend did a project on dreams in 7th grade that I wish I could remember right now. But oh well.



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hisdarkestdream
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18:33:58 Jul 08 2007
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We don't really live 2 lives in the dreams. We're dreaming of another life we have lived or will live. It's something u don't remember doing..u only think it's a dream.



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alwaysforgotten666
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20:52:21 Jul 09 2007
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ok... i'm not sure if this is going to make any sence at all but hisdarketsdream is my cousin... and i had a dream one night about me and her and were standing on my front porch looking tward my neighbors house and there were these lights i'm not sure what exactly they were but it kinda looked like the back end of a space ship. and then all of a sudden it got really hot and i woke up and my face was on fire. i told her about it and she had the exact same one. i think it was weird but as far as the astral projection thing... i usually project myself before i go to sleep so i know its possible because i have done it and looked at my own body and i would be sleeping so yes i do believe you can actually leave your body when you sleep. and dreams can be so real i will admit my family has problems and i am so frustrated with them all and i hadn't even been thinking about it and i had a dream the other night that they were all fighting and i lost it i chewed everyone out and it was so real because i could feel the emotions and the anger from being around them. not only that but i woke up crying and i was completely pissed with them all. so i guess everyones views come into play here i'm not sure exactly how to respond to this one... sorry if its doesn't make sence.



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hisdarkestdream
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20:55:39 Jul 09 2007
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I remember that dream very vividly. I just didn't remember it being a dream because it felt so real. I guess 2 people can be in the same place during dreams. But not really knowing it. I've had dreams that were so real and they were reoccuring dreams too.



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BloodMoonAngel
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21:01:23 Jul 09 2007
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Dreams come from our hidden thoughts what we would not think about when we are wake



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SalemsxAngel
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23:58:04 Jul 09 2007
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i has such a weird dream last night..it was very vivid...i have never had one so realistic..it was crazy...



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crimsonxxtears
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00:27:35 Jul 10 2007
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it would be great if we did have a dream land but what if all you had were nightmares wouldn't that dream land be worse then being awake.
if there is a dream land i would rather be ok, cause in the dream world i would die a million times



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Elissa
Elissa

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00:36:58 Jul 10 2007
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i think that we create our own dreamland for many different reasons in our life.

We do it to escape our real world.

We do it to work through problems that we maybe having.

We create fantasys that could never possibly happen to us in real life but oh we so wished they could

Our subconcious mind also can give us insight to our gifts i believe, such as seeing future events and seeing past lives.



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Whu
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00:42:01 Jul 10 2007
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that is just way to weird to think of for me.... i love dreaming but if i actually travel to some dream land..... hmm i don't want to know actually



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Oceanne
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22:27:22 Jul 11 2007
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Hmm,I think I will keep my thoughts to myself for right now on what I believe dreams are,but I do want to say one thing in that whoever keeps saying we dream in black and white is fullacrapp.I have never had a black and white dream.
But then again,I cant see in 3d thru those green and red glasses either.



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RAVENdelajour
RAVENdelajour

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22:29:35 Jul 11 2007
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Perhaps dreams are just scattered thoughts and sometimes we pick up on things.



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goodgirl17
goodgirl17

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22:33:55 Jul 11 2007
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I think some people would get stuck in their dream lands and become in like a coma.



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hisdarkestdream
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23:08:03 Jul 11 2007
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Well people do go into Comas. Where r they when they r in a coma? I mean they r still living but I don't think one person could sleep forever. They would have to be living in a different place and just don't kow how to find their way back.



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Oceanne
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23:08:56 Jul 11 2007
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You are thinking catatonic perhaps? I've been in a Coma,and there was nothing.Nothing at all.



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coolduedc
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23:18:27 Jul 11 2007
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From your question that was Given about the dreams. I think that "dream" does make a person experience makes a person get lost into their own mind, like a Dream World but of there own making themes, which could make a sense of the future or just past experiences.



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Carvall
Carvall

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23:33:29 Jul 11 2007
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Ah but what about the people who don't remember their dreams ?
Regards Carvall



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hisdarkestdream
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00:31:08 Jul 12 2007
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That's because what they saw wasn't important enough to remember. Like I don't remember everything but then other things I think r stupid but then those things that make me laugh will get me through the day.



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mtsoul77
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01:26:05 Jul 12 2007
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well, a "dream land" is a novel idea, but it's not likely. good thing too! I know I wouldn't want a place to exist that is like some of the dreams that I have.



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GrieviousDemon
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01:53:07 Jul 12 2007
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Like its been said I do believe above .. Everyone dreams ...at least 16-18 times a night.. some in black and white for some of you maybe even in color .. those in color may even have premonition abilities..
It all depends on how you develop things ..And try to understand why with an open mind



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VampiressWarrior
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02:10:38 Jul 12 2007
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many people have done that
including myself and sometimes i get so caught up into the dream land that i forget which one is real and which one is the life i want it to be
it does take a while to decifer which one is which but then again alot of people like to stay in their dream land so much that they force themselves to stay there or they start to make their reality their dreamland



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sangvamp17
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02:53:24 Jul 12 2007
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That would be cool if that is true. Though my dream land would be full of guitars. ha ha.



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darkchyld
darkchyld

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06:36:39 Jul 12 2007
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One life is all I think I can deal with. Even though some things in a dream land maybe very tempting.



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Deadlyviper
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21:08:27 Jul 12 2007
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The concept of a dream land seems possible. but we dont dream all the time, i just think its our minds expanding and entertaining us while we sleep.


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AngelInHell
AngelInHell

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21:23:37 Jul 12 2007
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well I have dreams, yet they are usually premonitions. So to be stuck in a dreamland.... I am not too sure I would like that



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hisdarkestdream
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21:44:12 Jul 12 2007
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People have been talking about dreaming in Black and White. I never thought it was possible until lastnight. I actually had my first Black and White Dream. It was kool.



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GrieviousDemon
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21:50:13 Jul 12 2007
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Honestly hon .. 95% ofall people dreams are in black and white .. For the longest time the so called experts claimed it was impossible to dream otherwise ( in color )
. Which brings up the topic of Premonitions..



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triphium
triphium

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21:54:55 Jul 12 2007
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that is quite scary becoz that's what i thought happens to us when we sleep. Brilliant minds think alike eh?

I think it's possible and is quite cool. I always thought of a train taking me to another earth, Yeah it sound childish, but i thought it was really cool



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VR System
VR System

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21:54:55 Jul 12 2007
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This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Jul 12 2007  •

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