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This question pertains to what happened over the weekend with Vampire Rave and the press. I have a number of questions I would like to put forward, and ask that they be given serious consideration.

Posts that consist of “Oh, I don’t know”, “I’ll think about it” or are of a flaming nature will be removed by Dominars.

In other words, if you do not wish to enter a DISCUSSION, do not post as my hopes is NOT to have a first post then all answers follow just this post, I want the topic discussed.

What I would like to explore is where we have gone wrong. Where have the intellectual discussions that VR used to have on a more regular basis gone? Is the lack of these discussions due to the limited imagination of the membership, or have the members that used to post frequently moved on and no longer use the forums?

Is there a way that we can compromise with the postings that really end up about role play or is that just the nature of how the generalized public will view our forums?

Lastly, why do we think this occurs? I do not want the old “Oh, I need to post for my status level” as if a person does the math the will realize that this is not the case. Do we take ourselves too seriously? Or is it because of the vast differences on what people consider to be vampiric that causes the conflict of interests in the forums (serious vs. role play)?

Is it our interest in the paranormal that will expose us to ridicule, or is it the unfounded “I’m powerful” statements that rightly determine that type of response? Will use of proper English and care in how we express our thoughts better our discussions in that others will at least consider what we say, instead of ignoring our statements because they assume we do not know what we are talking about because we are not even able to put forth a sentence?

I do not think that there is an answer here, but I do think there is a potential for a good intellectual discussion about how we perceive ourselves and in putting that forth in a public forum, how the public then in turn interprets our actions.

Should this turn into drivel I will close the thread, or ask a Dominar to do so. Please only post if you wish to discuss this issue.

First off, I think the idiots out there who dont know how to spell or form a damn sentence need to wise up before posting your babble.

"Better make sure your brain is loaded before you go shootin' your mouth off!"

Second, I dont think it matters what the intellectual or non has to say about anything, here or another site - people will always mock, put down, ridicule, trash, bash, etc. everything they can get thier hands on.. sadly its a form of entertainment in itself if you choose to see it that way and sad but true alot of people do! (damn sheeple)

To adjust to suit them would be stupid in my opinion, believe what you want, say what you want, do what you want.

Learn to spell, learn to speak, learn to post, pretend that you actually know what you brain is for!

I would imagine that some members have left and will continue to due to being fed up with some of the newer members for various reasons.

If its a "gotta get my posts up!" kinda thing, well I have already done my part in that fight and made my point a while back. (even though some people didnt get it I suppose)

bah I better shut up before I get pissed and say somethin' Ill regret or that offends someone

peace

OK.. My opinion on this is that I think people DO assume that posts in the forum ARE helping with their Status.
I noticed today that the 'sandbox' is full of threads I have posted on, numerous times and I have got bored of.
If I post in the General, I try my damndest to make it stimulating.

Because some users may asume what I have aforementioned, I have seen the standard of the sandbox, deteriorate in to a forum that belongs in a 'teen website'

I thoroughly enjoy thought provoking Threads and I wish to see more...
Some unique, fun threads would be welcomed by me in the sandbox.
I really feel that lack of communication OR a misunderstanding has gone on here and user assume it is ALL about the 'status'.

Well I totally agree with this "posting in Forums" One should not post just to be posting. If you have nothing to contribute then go to another forum and see if you can find one that will attract your interest.

I for one get really tired of scrolling down through post that have no bearing on the subject or the staements of "Oh how interesting" or Thanks for the Info" Bull... I do not post if I do not have anything to contribute and I also feel that everyone should follow that same pattern.

Believe me thre are alot of things in the forum I jusat read and move on, because I have nothing to contribute.

By the way I like the title to this post LOL!

I do not know what you are referring to about this weekend. I was not on that much. I do feel the same about not finding as much deep discussion as there has been in the past.

I do believe however that there are still topics out there that are interesting and worth discussing. I know I've learned a lot from the posts of others. I think I understand your concern because I've not seen some of the more insightful members, about a dozen of whom I could name, posting as much any more.

I will be the optimistic and say that I believe the system in place with different areas to post a variety of topics is effective.

Thanks for posting this. We need to chide each other to discuss deeper issues in this forum, and develop them as they once were.

Here is to more RIPed discussions we can read, add to, and learn from. There should be less of a need to have to RIA weak topics or those out of place.

Thanks for raising this issue Sire.
Blessed Be

the varety of opinions, taste and value will always makes it that some will expend and enhance their ideas and knowledge to then share it, as others will always remain in the same state, still it is almost impossible to have only discussion on a one path single line, as we all have different view on each subject, maybe some have give up seing that the efforts are not there, or at least less effort, but some still do make effort regardless and try their best to make discussion, of course it is actualy disapointing when the only reply that are there, like five in a row, dont make sens or worst are unreadable, I mean I know my english lacks but most of the time I know its readable, still I will admit I notice to that many just post to "gain their level" for exemple: I dont know, would like to know, interesting.....you get the picture.
As for role play way, well unless its in the sand box or in my coven, I think it dont belong in the main forum. But this is just my personal opinion.
I also notice that it seems less and less the ones who post with a content that make sens are less there, its like its always teh same then, no more.So ether they got fedup, or they just dont see the interest anymore for it.
Me I try to find threads where I can expend my knowledge and my views, and where I can share my ideas, opinions and experience. I think this is what a discussion is about.

Hum K
Well I agree with Minx, people do think that just randomly posting does help with status.
I admit that my responses a usually short and probably not up to the standard of many but still, I care not as most of the forums are pointless drivel based in role play, I find it hard to give a serious and full bodied response to anything of that genre.
I know that I find it hard to articulate what it is I want to say my typing is terrible and as a rule my grammar and spelling is even worse. Simple fact is I struggle with that kind thing then find myself totally paranoid over what ever I post through fear I shall be judged as stupid or simple.
Still it would please my greatly and it has done by finding the thread that broaches the question of what is going with us, and why have we changed?
When I was younger there seemed to be a lot more sites like this one and I was a very active member in many at 13 I seemed more capable of writing something of interest and worthy of discussion than I do now, odd how the ageing process changes how you feel about letting others know your true thoughts and views on a matter.
I half wonder if it is fear of being judged on what we truly are, having others sneer as you bear your soul.

I agree with everyone who has already posted here. I do believe that many posts have become simply that, members attempting to raise their status. However, There IS still plenty of useful information. It's simply hidden among the many pointless posts of i"dk..." and "im not surr". The poor spelling and grammar is almost to be expected. (I'm sorry if I offend anyone.) The world (and VR) is full of stupid people who neglect to check thair spelling, grammar, and in many cases, facts.

I will admit that my first experience into the forum was because I needed the posts to make status. I posted the "I agree" messages.

But, very quickly, I noticed that there were some serious topics on this site. I began reading the threads. I found the types of topics that challenged my knowledge. I began to research.

I quickly learned that I was not interested in the role playing threads. But, I also learned that thread titles could be deceiving. The forum began to take on a new meaning.

Now I am quite addicted. I look for threads that interest me. I do not post one line answers. I research before I start a thread. In short, I take my forum seriously.

The article that was posted on the internet was as most articles are...biased. The person tried to cast VR in an unflattering light and succeeded. But, I for one did not take offense. (of course I might have felt different if I had been spotlighted!)

Ignorance breeds ignorance is what concerns me. VR is so much more than a vampire/goth/werewolf site. It is a sight full of intellectuals who value the knowledge that the others share.

I have seen many times where people who have no voice reach out in the forum for information that might help them find explainations for thier problems. And, they find the answer...So, VR is serving a purpose and I don't care what others say or think. It has saved my sanity more than once.

All of this is true. (Also, the article was unflattering, I considered it very rude since many people that were insulted are my friends. However, the point here isn't that article. Those too are to be expected.) Yet, many people posting to the forums aren't exhibiting the intellectual qualities that you speak of. These such people are the problem.

I'm so glad this is being discussed. When I first was able to post in the forums, i found them very helpful, interesting, and the debates really had me going. i would always check up on the forums. sometimes more than 2x a day. I have learned so much from some of the posts here, but something has changed. I cant put my finger on it. but i don't feel like posting. the topics aren't grabbing me as much and by the time i find one that i really have something to say about, the subject has changed.

Maybe it is because of the status increase. maybe it is because we are becoming more lazy and just don't feel like responding. whatever it is, its not too great. some of the changes on the rave I am having a hard time adjusting to and i haven't even been here as long as many of the other members. but constipation is definately a good way to describe it.

I agree with Sevenn that if you put a Forum Post up you need to keep up with it and to see that people are actually contributing to the Post.

So many people do just put short comments to help their status, yet in my opinion it just shows ignorance on the persons part, if you do not have any thing of value or a real question about a Forum Posting then just move on to one you can contribute to. Just my opinion.

I agree with what Seven has said.. AND I have been aware of the abuse the Dominars have put up with from users that had their 'limiting' or 'out of line' posts deleted.. it hurts their pride that they were publically, mocked... BUT that is not what has happened. The forum is BEING operated by Dominars doing a JOB.

Sevenn, I'm glad you brought up those points as they seem to be the critical part of the equation.

When do we as a person want to be taken seriously, and what will we do to have that come across.

The problem with "policing" ourselves is that it requires responsibility for our own actions, and frankly many people that I've seen do not want to do this. They appear to have the misconception that responsibility = no fun. So they don't think about what they post.

Ironically, it also leads to an issue that most people are not even conscious of: that there is a disconnect with how we write and how we speak. By this I refer to the people who write as they speak. You see it continuously in the forums and in private messages.

Where a person writes down what they would say to you in person. The only problem is that without the physical cues or the vocal inflection, 99% of the time what they say comes out as gibberish or at best illiterate.

Perhaps something to consider would be reminders of the written language vs. the spoken language. In truth, many professors of English consider them to be two different languages especially when you factor in the use of slang and short terms or internet slang such as LOL…

I have read every post on this thread with interest.

For the most part I agree that some topics have made me groan.

However as a newbie myself, I would like to point out that some questions that have made me groan in the last few days
are from people who really do want information.........so perhaps the wording or spelling is lacking........it is the search for answers that interests me.

Houses and Covens only exist for those at a certain level........where then do newbies go to get their answers ?

I agree with Sevenn's suggestion at attempting to self-police threads. I have seen, however, where some Dominars have taken offense at the requests. On member, who had posted to this thread, attempted to do this very thing a while back. A Dominar publically blasted her in the thread for her attempts at keeping the thread on topics and RIA'd a perfectly intelligent thread.

The difficulty comes when a thread with a somewhat intelligent topic is starting to develop. Along comes the "Kewl idea" and the RPG characters etc. The thread can get so far out of hand before those attempting to "self police" it can even get a Dominar to have a look-see. At that point the thread is so far out in the weeds the Dominar is usually being merciful in putting it out of it's misery by RIAing it.

There is a good reason why Police apprehend and deal with criminals, the general public does not have the proper tools. The same is true of the general VR population. We can plead and implore and even get nasty with the nonsense posters...but we have no power to stop them.

I have to say that the points here are all very valid. That is part of what I was hoping would happen.

I think that people need to remember that while we do have 13 Dominars, we have well over 1000 posts per day. That equals if a slow day only 76 posts per Dominar to look over-which doesn't seem like much in the grand scheme of things. When you add real life work and commitments it can equal quite a bit of sorting through, then that not all Dominars are online all the time- well I'm sure you see my point. It's a thankless job in that respect.

Still they all agreed to do the work when online. Many of them have been forum regulars for a long time- so they do know the ins and outs of posting. Yet they are individuals, and while they do have what is sometimes referred to as "magic buttons" they have to use their best judgement in making calls of how the forum is run.

While KCRC brings up probably what I can imagine a frustrating point for both the poster and the Dominar- it is happening more and more. It doesn't help to have people go off or try to police threads, nor does it help to do what we all have done at one point or another- the snarky remark.

Sevenn brought up the best policy: If you can't add to the discussion, don't post. Hold yourself responsible for your actions online, just as you would if it was in a classroom. Because I do think that we are looked at more than people realize, and it is not going to become a private forum. These forums will attract people who want as Sapphire did to learn and explore.

Even if it is a first step in the learning process, it is a step that is still valid.

Q: Where have the intellectual discussions that VR used to have on a more regular basis gone? Is the lack of these discussions due to the limited imagination of the membership, or have the members that used to post frequently moved on and no longer use the forums?

A: I’ve been disgusted before; or there is nothing new under the rave.

Q: Is there a way that we can compromise with the postings that really end up about role play or is that just the nature of how the generalized public will view our forums?

A: If the site is about everything Vampire; then compromising Role Play, Roll Play, and Lifestyle to favour only those that have vampyric cravings and needs would be delusive contentment.

Q: Lastly, why do we think this occurs? …Do we take ourselves too seriously? Or is it because of the vast differences on what people consider to be vampyric that causes the conflict of interests in the forums (serious vs. role play)?

A: There are vast differences, hence the need for a catalogue of all that is vampire; even the site itself should be catalogued as a part of the culture. I think that anyone that takes something too seriously does not truly comprehend the society to which they are trying to belong: Elder-goths that are offended by Ikea ads; Treckies who insist they are trekkers; what have you. I think people confuse the purpose of this site; does anyone really believe that the site is here solely for cataloguing or expounding only one vampyric belief system?

Q: Is it our interest in the paranormal that will expose us to ridicule, or is it the unfounded “I’m powerful” statements that rightly determine that type of response?

A: People will always fear what they do not understand; then attack what they fear.
See above statement; as those who are “beyond” ridicule can laugh at themselves.

Q: Will use of proper English and care in how we express our thoughts better our discussions in that others will at least consider what we say, instead of ignoring our statements because they assume we do not know what we are talking about because we are not even able to put forth a sentence?

A: If grammar, punctuation, and concise expression were imperative to the site, it would be there, either through a checking device of some kind, or moderated posting until after a suitable apprenticeship (i.e. WRAITH).
Is there not some responsibility for Elder-vamps (by Vampirerave.com standards) to have patience, endure, love, respect, and teach those who are new?

I Digress

I usually only post when I have something of worth to add (aside from sandbox silliness of course. ) but it is on occasion hard as sometimes I feel that there is not a lot to choose from, or I quite simply have nothing to add that hasn’t already been said 20 times. I ran a non-profit Pagan Organization (not the same thing as this site obviously, but it appears that you have similar problems) for about 4 years and it didn’t take long for me to realize that on occasion the downfalls can outweigh the benefits. Having a public forum (or public anything) brings all types and unfortunately the ‘flakes’ tend to out number the people who actually know what is going on, it’s just the nature of the beast as it were. I don’t think that role playing really has a place on the forum (unless it is presented as a thread just for role playing), but I’ve noticed in various posts that A LOT of people have a hard time telling the difference between what they have seen in the movies, read in role playing books and reality. I’m not sure what you guys could do aside from trying to police the random non-sense posts (more than you already do) and deleting them so that they don’t detract from the actual discussion ( an extremely hard thing to do). I’m just going to stick to not posting to threads that I have nothing to offer to, or ones that just simply don’t make sense to me. So far as the constant misspellings and grammar horrors, I’m a big fan of spell check; in fact I even used it before posting this. Good job me!! lol

Seriously? Spell-check and grammar-check are tools for laziness and stupidity and show a lack of desire to learn. But they are also a small blessing if it means that I don't have to sift through crappy grammar and even crappier spelling errors to try and decipher what some people think passes for English. Okay. I'm getting offline now, I'm becoming upset.

Maybe "Pissed off Suicide" is a good name for me. ^_^ I digress. Carry on.

I think what this discussion boils down to is discipline vs. Laissez-faire.

I find it fascinating, that this forum is rapidly becoming a microcosm of the very subject.


Personally, I have several reasons for spelling and grammar checkers.

-Dyslexia, when my blood/sugar levels are completely out of whack, I get dyslexic.

-Exposure, all living languages change… English is not Latin, and chat rooms et al. has corrupted the way many people spell.

-Typos, I am bad for typos… really bad.

-Phonetics… I type the way I hear the word… I have always spelled Saturday, Saterday. Without knowing the etymology of the word, my version might be more correct in 50 years… LOL

-My cordless keyboard sucks, depending on the battery power and interference.

-I am lazy (read my profile… under sloth… LOL)

And these are valid points too. This type of boo-boo where someone misinterpreted happens ALL the time. It is not limited to the forums; it is common with all written words these days.

We are so used to how we speak the language, that often we put how we would say something, and then understand what was written in the wrong context. Not many people bother to explain or figure out that there was confusion and then move forward; instead it spirals into the realm of chaos and forum gibberish. Too become the stuff of VR drama awards.

I personally thinkg this article i hilarious- it really does pick out a lot of the worst posts on the Rave.

Moving on from this,I personally keep moving away from Vampire Rave, as it was the philosophical debate that kept drawing me back, and I don't think our online culture of being obsessed with what we are "rated" or the "Whatever/thisthat/the person next to you part 476" in the sandbox really help this- nor does the status obsession, where you have to post to be a high status, so people post jst for the sake of it. often just saying "I don't know" as you clearly pointed out. I started a thread today in fact, and most people don't actuallly seem to be replying to the subject matter I posted- they are just automactically posting. I think thats the BIGGEST problem of all, but cannot honestly see how to resolve it.

I personally think that the environment is changing here, and we react to this change. I also think that, in regards to your comments abotu roleplay, that some poepl actually WANT others to believe that they are 100000 years old and Lestat is their brother :-) so it is hard to separate this sort of thing from the general consensus on VR.

I also must admit that I think, although it would take AGES and may lose the site money, I think all applicants for membership should have to write about 500 words abotu why they want to join the site, nd their perspective on vampirism- I know it ma seem like I am being an egocentric fascist, but it woul filter out a lot of the idiots, and other people like RPGers could be recommended to go to a different site.

When I see a thread like this with actual work being put into it, it really makes me feel hopeful to ser this sort of thing, and hope that VR becomes apropos to this sort of discussion once more. Often, people can be so bothered with their "image" here, that they copy and paste informatin off other sites as they KNOW people won't read it, but it will make them look intelligent- this is another problem, people do NOT read anymore.

However, I think it the cycle is hand in hand; if posts are more interesting, mroe poeple will post useful and constructive information, and if there is more information, then people will start to read posts again, instead of saying "dunno" as they do not know what the thread is even about. I also feel it will improve community spirit on the Rave, and therefore help slow down this addiction with "status" and see us all as equals.

I have a few things I would like to bring up here.

One.. it was not enough to have the one that posted that site bash us? Now we have to do it to ourselves? As one of the ones that was used in that I find it highly offensive to read that you all assume I am an idiot and the worst of the worst. Makes me wonder why the hell to bother at all.

Two.. Just exctally who decides what is a "worthy" topic and what is not? Yes some are annoying but no one is forceing you to read or post to them. If they are ignored they will go away.

Three.. Yes my typeing and most of all my spelling sucks I do try but its called a learning disability.. I am NOT simple nor am I an idiot. Again thanks so for the bashing. And last I checked this site was not just for the English speaking world. Some people that use English as a second language have trouble.

Four.. Yes we need to police ourselves. Not everyone is gonna do it, but if enough try at least it will help. And as for those that are doing the thankless job of policeing now.. thank you. I may not agree with your closeing a topic, But then I do not have to agree.

Five.. if you all ( and I do agree here ) do not want RPG in the main forum.. how about the simple opening of a special forum for RPG. If its gonna be here .. and I do not see a way to stop it. OPen a place for it so those of us that wish too can ignore it far more easily.

This is a varied community. And that is part of our appeal to people, I personally would not value the site as much if it became all about how well you post or if your views are "acceptible"

Just my 2 cent.

I agree with Liebe. I used to do a lot of posts on here when I first joined.
There were a lot of interesting posts that pertained to facts and fantasy about
vampirism. Here lately I haven't participated in any posts because they are
lame or sound really bad.

I think a lot of it has to do with the younger generation getting on here and
complaining about how much they hate their parents and their school and who they
are fighting with. Or worse they think this is a dating site and post about
being single and wanting to hook up.
These children should consider how good they have it now days instead of complaining
about it. Sure everyone has a bad day now and then and needs to vent a little bit,
but it gets old when that is all they talk about.

I joined this site originally to learn about the vampire culture. I have never once
proclaimed to be a vampire or say that I ingest blood or anything of that nature. This
site used to be very interesting and very informative.

I agree with TBone and Sevenn.

People really should spell check their posts if they are gonna go shooting their
mouths off. Especially if they want people to take them seriously. I have noticed
that even people who complain about other people not spelling words correctly in their posts
have made their own mistakes as well. So it is a vicious cycle that will never end.
I have to admit, I started a thread about a week ago and I was unable to police it
because I lost my Internet connection and was unable to get back on the net.
That was my fault. But noone responded after my last post on it anyways.

About the RPGing, if people feel they need to play or act out vampire lifestyles and
antics, then I say give them a place to do it. Start a forum just for that purpose.
That may clean up the other forums and allow people to post more meaningful Threads.

Just my two cents on the whole thing.

Just as an aside, since the RPG subject has come up quite a bit..

The VR manual has a section devoted to the forum and it's pretty concise as to what goes where. We have the sandbox for threads that don't fit into either the general forum or the mascara section. Since the sandbox is purposefully loosely moderated, it makes sense that those interested in RPG could simply create their own RPG threads...no need to make a separate section when we already have the ability to post just about whatever suits in the sandbox.

I have to say that I've read some interesting things here that have caused me to examine my actions in the forum. I do think that we all need to watch spelling and grammar. I don't however think that anyone who has a typo is stupid or illiterate and I think we should be careful to not quickly label anyone. I know that spelling is a personal irritant of mine, making me hypersensitive to it..however in truth, so long as the post can be understood and deals with the subject matter put forth, I never think to myself "wow that person's stupid!" It's the ones that post with completely nonsensical strains of thought..don't spell correctly..haven't read the thread..haven't taken the time to think before they start writing. Those are the folks that make it confusing to follow along. For the most part, it's probably not even so much stupidity as it is simple overall laziness and a quest for post quota.

Sadly after reading this and the attitude of a few of the leaders here.. sighs I see very little reason to try to post much. You wonder why people have left... look at this thread and you have one reason. When the LEADERS of a group are this... unacceptingwhy should anyone bother to help or offer help or simply try to let people they are not alone. I have been called an idiot and stupid and the worst of the worst.. well from my PM I see not all agree sadly I think other than my coven and a few friends I am going to pull back as I am not up to the leaders viw of smart enough and good anough to post on the VR forum.

``What I would like to explore is where we have gone wrong. Where have the intellectual discussions that VR used to have on a more regular basis gone? Is the lack of these discussions due to the limited imagination of the membership, or have the members that used to post frequently moved on and no longer use the forums?``

I for one am only recently returning from an extended hiatus due to the rampant childishness in the forums and elsewhere on the site, I have still been around just to babysit my house.....but other than that....I had joined the many many intelligent posters of old who have in the larger majority left not only the forums...but the entire site, and most i spoke to said they were leaving because they didn`t want to be part of yet another moronic teen site...their words...not mine....
I agree with Saphire`s point E: in that there is too little communication between dominars, and very little actual definition as to when to shut something down....to much of it is simply just I don`t like this, so it`s gone....It isn`t most of the dominars, but I have noticed this trend with more than one.
They do a thankless job...this is not in dispute....they do it well....most of the time...
one major issue I have had is that you cannot question one dominar without the rest jumping on you like a rabid gang, I have experienced this numerous times in the two years they have had the job.
They are in effect the police on this site.....but sometimes...the police must be policed, by someone outside themselves, because they will automatically defend one another out of mutual understanding, even when wrong as has a few times been shown in the past...
I think I should stress..I refer to a few isolated instances...but they are there nonetheless

But I strongly agree about working WITH them on threads....I did this in the chatters cafe, and anytime we had issues in there, they were dealt with quickly and with politeness, this is how it needs to happen, quickly, politely, and with respect....respect is often demanded by them...but NOT always given by them....again...I refer to a small unnamed portion...
hope I dropped some gas on this fire for a while...
goodnight

solutions:

1. Give the RP'ers a place to unload thier RPishness. Voila!

2. Everyone check your posts before you hit "submit", make sure you did your best to spell and maybe break up a mile long paragraph into umm I dunno a few? just a suggestion.

3. If you have nothing to say about a topic and you are either clueless on it or have no opinion, etc. - dont post anything! just read over it if you want and then move on.

4. Grow up!, or at least try and fool people SHEESH!, friggin babies. Its a good thing I dont know your parents, I whip thier ass! =)

this class made for:
"Sheeple! there's one near you!"

paid advertisement for: Deadphara

*shhh... Ill pay later I swear!*

Good to see you on here Daermon, I have to admit you and Echo were two of the old time posters I hoped to lure into this discussion.

The reason being is you did see the forums when they were very, very different as they developed their voice. I think that helps assist people to understand the frustrations.

Although while I do not agree with everyone (who does, really- this is about opinions) I feel compelled to comment on a couple of things.

1. The article that sparked this, was NOT on VR and so is not subject to VR rules.
2. No one said that those put into the article were idiots as personally I know and respect several of them.
3. Dyslexic people can still use assistance – as I am one of them. And in truth it offends me that people get all huffy about their issues and make no attempt at changing them.

I have stated it before, writing to speak is different from talking. There are those who’s entire mode of speaking is: “so u wanna thik about ur plaz 4 the forum?” That is who I was addressing in my comments, still being dyslexic I am typing this out in word. Do I do this always? No. But I try to keep that at a min, simply put- I AM embarrassed by my difficulties with spelling and how my dyslexia makes me seem if you do not know me. So I take every step in not letting it show. That is my personal choice, off of my own personal biases.

As for varied I have to agree and that is part of what attracted me to this site, there are those that do not care if a posting question specifically asks for no RPG, and from what I’ve seen it is a lack of respect for those that are asking serious questions. That I think is the issue now that we’ve discussed this more and more. The verbal disagreements happen because someone enters what is to be a RPG thread in a serious tone or vice versa. From there is all is down hill.

I know that originally there was a coven created just for RPG, because it was frowned upon in the forums. The problem is how do we move forward from here.

Must every question have the same type of disclaimer and warning that I did at the start of this? If that is to be the case, I have to agree that the people who need to be reading this thread are not.

Ok 10 percent of a persons status does come from posting and a lot of people want to get up in status fast, so they are more inclined to post nonsense into the forums.

Also i am hearing a lot of people talking about teenagers complaining about their problems in the forums well that is why their are dominars to delete posts that are not on topic, a lot of the teenagers who do complain about their lives are also helping to keep Vampire Rave online by paying for memberships.

Now i also hear people talking about spelling unless your a world champion speller you shouldent even say anything i mean people are going to misspell words sometimes and they are going to write sentences that do not sound exactly right but a lot of people have done that, it does not make them stupid or ignorant about a topic they are replying to.

I think the main problem is the 10 percent status increase when people post to the forum, they would rather post to the forum then rate a profile, portfolio or database entry so why not just take the 10 percent from the forum posting and make it where you get 20% for ratings.

This is one of the best threads that I have read in a while, the problem is that it has covered so much ground I can't remember all of it :)

The offending website decided to ignore VR's copyright and reproduced great chucks of this site on their own. They had to pick out the more awkward threads or it would not have been half as readable to the non-vamp community.

It does need to be talked about here, not to poke more fun at the people involved but to reduce the effect of it happening again.

If you can't spell or need help with your spelling, use a firefox browser and download the free spell check add-on that underlines any words it recognises as being misspelt (and allows you to create your own dictionary and adjusts for English / American).

I attack the forums in bursts, then have a break because it annoys me. I can spend ages putting together what I think is a good discussion and settle back to enjoy it only to watch it fall apart.

People don't seem to understand that a debate has to move. From the moment of the first reply it is shifting, just having someone come in and and bash out some sort of answer based on the first post stops the debate dead.

Often someone will have taken the trouble to prove, actually prove, a fact - only to have someone who has only skimmed over the initial question, make a statement that has already been proven to be rubbish.

The Dominars do an awesome job, they do - they're volunteers giving up their own time and enjoyment to keep the site halfway decent. They will make mistakes and get tetchy after a while, who wouldn't ?

I was gutted when my very first attempt at a post was RIA'd, looking back I can see why. I was absolutely rocked when 300 of my Sandbox posts were lost overnight, looking back it was a fair move

The website has a clear purpose, it is stated on every page, it is a vampire resource and directory - it will catalogue vampires from movies to myth. The people who believe that the site is mostly a social site should think about that, the site simply won't preserve anything that isn't worth cataloging.

I recently created a poll (about polls) and the reply was worrying, the majority of people felt that that part of the website should be opened to anything that they wanted to talk about, not just vampires and the occult - why have they joined this vampire directory, was myspace broken?

I've prattled on long enough, I will now read over it and check my spelling before I click Post [hint]

I agree with most of the statements, I would however like to place into this debate a couple of comments to ponder.
Elitism is not a cool thing guys n girls
Just as hawking is trapped in a crippled body, his mind is fantastic, would you ignore him for not being able to type due to his body?
Some people have learning difficulties a true handicap of the brain, are the post worthless that they produce, a word blindness and hoping spell checker sorts it out is all they have.

Ps im not talking about the mindless monsters who post endless crap like spray-paint on walls

lavisbre, I think that is a vaild point and many of us have addressed it. It is obvious when someone is attempting to put forth ideas in a manner that adds to the discussion.

You can see progressions with how they post in the forums and that they are attempting to add, not detract. I think it's too bad though that people will just use the "excuse" for not thinking prior to posting. And I do not say that to put down people with these difficulties, again I too have them. The point is I try, and part of what I read as being asked is that people try to think before they post.

Echo,

I don't think that anyone would mind the odd typo if the subject was good. Its when everything is so badly spelt that you can't understand it or you have to stop and decode it.

Some people deliberately mis-spell words or use text talk, which is of no use to an international website where for a great many people english is a second language.

I think the Sandbox is like a safety net

I agree, Artemka (although unfortunately from my own experience that occaisionally even one word spelt wrong can get your thread ruined.)

You bring up a very good pont about those with English as a second language- If those with English as a first language struggle with teact speak (and I know I do!) then it must be even more difficult for them.

I think the only thing that can really be done about that is in the policing of the forum, and I think that should include everyone to a greater extent.

I understand what you are saying Sevenn, and would like to add that I do agree that we should be looking for solutions, but I also think that discussing problems can lead to that as, lets face it, we are dealing with a site-wide problem here.

What I would really like to know is how to solve our community issues, as I feel this is the base of the problem.

We are (and I am not aiming this at anyone in particular) often very quick to get defensive, as I was discussing in my thread about being flamed for ratings, and I wonder, if it isn't too off topic- has the quality of the forum gne down because we do not respect each other as much, or are too worried about what others think to say what we really mean?

How about a point of your account for known stupid posting, must by agreed by 3 independent sire


ps dont take one from me for saying this lol

lavisbre,

This is effectively what a Forum ban does, in preventing people from gaining status via that stat.

Thats true, yet don;t you think that it would be an IMMENSE job for the Sires, having to check all these posts?

@Echo, and I agree that people should try to approach each other from a point of respect.

@Lavisbre, while I understand your suggestion, the implementation is too subjective: its part of what people are saying is a problem now. And I think the overall issue is trying to define "what is a stupid/bad/poorly constructed post? What may seem significant to a 16 year old may not seem significant to me based on simple life experience. What may be a great post in the mind of a new member may make everyone groan who has been here for three years and heard the question 10 times. Again, for me, I think it has a whole lot to do with construction. If I saw the question, "what is a "real" vampire? I might think "here we go again..." BUT if I saw the question, "Wut iZ a rill VamPyrE?" (and I think that sort of spelling is done purposefully...) I would close the thread.

Sevenn, I agree that what may be a good post to one isn't too another, as we are all different of course- but each forum has rules of what subject matter can be added, and I personally think that the free rein of the Sandbox makes that side more attractive, and does take away from the main discussion forum.

Sevenn thanks for putting that example there, it seems that the more we define what we are looking for the more we get the information that we want.

There have been times I have wanted generate a more general discussion, but have been disappointed with the lack of serious response to this type of thread.

Echo, you are correct part of finding a solution is naming the problem that is occurring. What some view as bitching- others can view as trying to identify the real issue. The biggest issue I see is that this is not just a single-issue problem; it is a very layered and in-depth one.

We have to "peel" the onion to get to the juicy part- even if it does make our eyes water ;)

I agree with you Jenova- I personally filter through messages as well. I think however, that there shoul be a tage where enough is enough when it comes to subject matter.

Just a note on the issue of spelling and grammar.

I think what is offensive is NOT typographical errors, Grammatical errors or even those to whom English is not their native tounge. We ALL make errors. I have a dear friend on this site who is from another area of the world. She is not a native english speaker and sometimes struggles with the correct word to use, spelling and sentence structure...Yet a look at her writing clearly shows intelligence and the ability to get her point across despite her level of proficiency in English.

The issue is with people who were born and raised in English speaking countries who make no effort whatsoever to communicate clearly. The mixing of capilized letters randomly throughout their writting. The substitution of "text speak" for English words.

Some have taken offence and felt put upon by the discussions of spelling and grammar standards. I wanted to clarify MY interpretation of where to draw "The Line".

Well, I think most of us draw the line in the same place- but the question is, what can be doen about it to make our forums better?

So having read everyone's opinions and thoughts up to now I have a few of my own. When I started here I was one who posted meaningless things, in the sandbox, in an attempt to become more active and possibly get to know more people. I have avoided most of the forum due to the fact that I refuse to post without reading everything others before me have written and the posts get quite full of random, off topic or text type posts. I personally do not mind the occasional misspelling. It happens. I am bothered by the purposeful misspelling and the use of random capital letters through a post. I think a more active mentoring of new members might help control the posts and the new coven for younger members might give them a forum to post in with people who face similar problems. Those that are mentoring are doing a terrific job but they can't help everyone. Initally I would agree with raising the level in which people can post except then it could be frustrating to be a member for months and not be able to answer posts or participate in meaningful threads. There is no easy answer but getting more people involved in mentoring would be my suggestion.

I think the forums are fine!. What do you expect? Why do you take it so seriously? Tell me how many on here actually are working on a doctorate, or masters or even a bachelors in any field of study, let alone in paranormal studies or anthropology or medieval studies.

Why would there be any assumption that VR is a place of scholastic learning on the paranormal.? Do you think this is the Talamasca? Why would you, or anyone assume, that what you say is of any importance to anyone? Again, this shows you that you take yourself to seriously! And if, indeed, what you say is only so much cow excrement then it will be held up to ridicule. But remember it is pleasing to make another laugh.

As far as the PRESS is concerned, I would not call that site the press. After all, my comment only made page 3. A true journalist would have placed it on page 1.

I have read these comments and the ones from the other thread, and I am amazed at the indignation at the other site. Why? Why even waste the energy?

Fangor, you make a lot of sense with your contribution. Even if I did end up on that site, I would brush it off because the author of the article probably is also among the "worst of the worst" I mentioned earlier.

Fangor,

There are several people on this site who are undertaking serious study and, since many members have said that they come here to find information and to learn, as well as the core purpose of VR being the database, I think that your point is invalid.

However, those who post something unfounded in either science or philosophical debate, should take a step back from the wood and have a look at the trees as others see them.

My choosing to post for my first posting to this thread may surprise those of you who have been coming back to this thread. I came to this site for several reasons - two of which are research and to have intelligent discussions about vampirism. I have yet to have the time to see many of the things I am looking to talk about. I wish to give you hope that not all “newbies” are so bad. Granted I am not of the younger generation.
In my past experiences of dealing with those who can not tell the difference between role playing and factual occurrences, it is best to give them their own place to get it out of their systems until they find it boring or reality hits them between the eyes. Role playing is a large part of this subculture at this point in time. There could be a place on this site just for that, if the need is great enough. Not another RPG site but a place people can type as their RPC and interact as well. This could also give insight to what people perceive as vampirical culture interactions. This may give some aspiring writers a chance to explore a character they are planning to use in a story line. This should be a meeting place, with instant messaging perhaps.
The English language that is socially used has been shortened to letter groups and symbols in text messages that are an accepted from of response. To the point that {if like me} you do not use that form of typed speech then you are lost when seeing it until explained. On other sites and member message services the one or few word responses and posts also run rampant {rabid}. The phrase of “too many words, too many words” is also been used. For the public as a whole wants short quick answers, not a full informative answer. If they haven’t seen the movie or a short web blurb about it somewhere they most likely will not fully read about it any more. Even the use of search engines has lost of the how to research a subject as well.
Typing in a program that corrects spelling and grammar is available to most, but the quick response of a three letter symbolized word response is what most teenagers to sub adults know from social habit of this day and age.
Even I must watch for thick fingers used with a small laptop key board. I must type slowly to ensure correctness. Even the internet browser I currently use has spell check on it. I have never been the best at spelling but I do make an effort to be correct. Sometimes I do well sometimes very badly if quick and fast is the typing reaction. Sometimes I leave a word missed spelled just to see if someone reads through the document fully or skims over it. Also I type and speak differently at times. For with doing Renaissance Faires and Practitioner beliefs and an alternative lifestyle {BDFSM}, I carry an older speech pattern and usage at times.
No matter what is said {typed} here. The socially accepted form of communication will be used. It is up to the individual to use it correctly with the application it is being used with and in.

Stabb

VR has about 12,000 registered members and probably less than 1000 are on here for any period of time. Your assertion that SEVERAL members are serious somewhat makes my point, that these things should not be taken too seriously!

Fangor,

Interestingly careful selection of one part of my post, whilst ignoring the latter, where I pointed out that many come to learn.

As such, I feel that since the core idea of VR is a database of vampire and gothic related information, the forum should be an extension of that purpose, neccesitating a set of accurate, informative and understandable threads.

Mashing up fantasy in the same thread as a topic under serious discussion, only muddies water that isn't exactly crystal to begin with.

I really don't mean to sound... rude.. But you seem to be having a hair up your rear end about this.. And its not nessicarry.

You have to keep in mind, there are fifteen year olds, thirteen year olds.. younger people here basically. Some may be VERY intelligent.. but most of them are your typical average teenager.

And if someone like these people decide that they're going to knock on Vampire Rave, just because we have diffrent veiws than they do.. All that does is make them a bully. What they said was very rude, and inapropriate.. But that does not mean we need to react in an angry or irate manner.. especially not to each other.

We all know bullys pick on others to make themselves feel better. Take that knowlage in mind, and rest at ease knowing they have their own little quirks.

Not everyone can be a mature person.. If we all were, these people wouldn't have been immature enough to find it appropriate to rag on us.

Thats why you need to take time and teach the youth, instead of complaining about their needing to learn.

Again, I'm not trying to offend anyone.. I'm just expressing my veiw on the situation.

Stabb:

Ok, so let's do it this way: In order to respond in to a thread in the Forum a member must possess at a minimum a B.A.

In order to start a new thread a member must possess at a minimum a M.A. or MS.

Is that what you are suggesting?

Fangor,

There is no need to be obnoxious about it. I am saying that the whole idea of VR is as an information resource, so to my mind, the Forum should reflect that- hence the reason why the Sandbox is not archived.

I don't think it's too much to ask people to make a valid contribution, to the goal of 'The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory', do you?

Again, it is apparently your VIEW of a valid contribution. Frankly, I am of the opinion that the MAJORITY of the threads seem non-sensical anyway, in fact as I have stated before the Sandbox often makes more sense.

But I'm a little amused that you do not like my suggestion! Surely, you would still be able to respond and start a thread wouldn't you?

At first glance it may appear to many that the general Discussion Forum is for serious threads and that the Sandbox is for more whimsical threads. I do not think that this is necessarily so. Many of us wish for serious discussions that are not Vampire related in the sandbox, and I am sure there is room for whimsy in the general thread (surely the very allure of vampirism is a whimsy.)

Perhaps if a person were adamant that their thread be serious... they could tag it with:

Please Sir, May I have some cake too?

But to direct my response toward your questions I have decided to repost them along with my responses as this thread has gotten quite long and I wouldn’t want anyone to forget what we’re talking about here. My educational level may not be up to it, but I've never let that stop me before from saying my piece.

What I would like to explore is where we have gone wrong. Where have the intellectual discussions that VR used to have on a more regular basis gone? Is the lack of these discussions due to the limited imagination of the membership, or have the members that used to post frequently moved on and no longer use the forums?

I’m not so sure it’s necessarily wrong as much as a natural progression. When you consider that many intelligent discussion threads have already been done and yet when a new one gets started, it’s often soon closed with comments of “it’s been done to death already”. Yes, we can search out those old threads and read them for information but if we want to clarify a point made by someone long gone from here, we are just out of luck. As most days show nearly 100 new members per day, that’s a lot of new information out there being locked away because they were not here when the threads were done the first time. Sorry, but it doesn’t seem right to me. Surely after a suitable time period a topic can be reintroduced for new discussion? What is the harm? You might get many of the same responses as the first but there just might be that one response from someone new that makes you sit up and think.

Is there a way that we can compromise with the postings that really end up about role-play or is that just the nature of how the generalized public will view our forums?

I would like for there to be a way to get those who live in their role play characters to keep them out of serious discussions but without turning the forums into a police state, I see no reasonable way to do so other than asking them politely to refrain when it starts showing up. As to the public view of the forums, they will come to this site with a preconceived image in their minds and won’t stop until they have found enough foolishness to back them up even if they have to take it out of context. If any of us were that worried about public opinion we wouldn’t be here now anyway.

Lastly, why do we think this occurs? I do not want the old “Oh, I need to post for my status level” as if a person does the math the will realize that this is not the case. Do we take ourselves too seriously? Or is it because of the vast differences on what people consider to be vampiric that causes the conflict of interests in the forums (serious vs. role play)?

As in any large group there will always be those who take themselves and others too seriously and any hint of disagreement with their opinion as an offense toward themselves. Yes, there is a large area that defines vampiric, but isn’t that part of what makes it so interesting to talk to each other and learn from others here. If I came here only to hear what I already knew, then I wouldn’t stay. I’m boring; I want fresh new ideals and strange new worlds to explore. If I have to sift through some role-play chatter to get to the good stuff, so be it. Posting for status, has been shown time and again to be a less than worthwhile method, much better to use your time rating.

Is it our interest in the paranormal that will expose us to ridicule, or is it the unfounded “I’m powerful” statements that rightly determine that type of response? Will use of proper English and care in how we express our thoughts better our discussions in that others will at least consider what we say, instead of ignoring our statements because they assume we do not know what we are talking about because we are not even able to put forth a sentence?

Yes, much of the ridicule must come from our interest in the paranormal. We are an easy target for those simple minded enough to need to target others for entertainment. They will not bother to go past the occasional “god like” response to find the real information coming out. They came here looking for that stuff. The occasional misspelling or grammatical error will not make a difference but a large response filled with typos and unreadable nonsense reflects badly. It also makes it difficult for the next member to continue the flow of the thread, as they have to try to interpret exactly what was meant by it. Confusing to say the least. I use spell check and will continue to do so, I can spell but as I also type fast, I miss words that I’ve misspelled and the checker helps me catch them. I’ve never been one to look a gift horse in the mouth and that’s what a spell check it to me.

Stabbyguy``It's no use moaning and quitting, since it only exacerbates the probem.``

this is why unlike many others I didn`t quit the site, I just needed some time away to refresh myself and resharpen the razor wit I`m so well known for.....I was becoming so irritated I was losing my cool with people and resorting to base flaming....not cool at all.

as to repeated calls for an RPG area...there are OTHER sites for that purpose, I think this needs to be made very very clear as one of the things I was getting irritated about was correcting people on historical facts concerning occult and vampirism in regards to them bringing up so called facts garnered from white wolf game materials...I know the difference as i am also a gamer...this IS NOT the place for it.
most times poor spelling and grammar doesn`t bother me if it seems accidental....but 1337 $P33k just irritates me and most others...
I also feel that in the informative forums there should be a requirement that if you are presenting facts on something, that you provide reference locations, a web site, a book name, author name, etc etc.
this is because I have also had to often correct someone who has given out entirely false information to someone asking a question, the worst case was someone claiming to be an ambulance tech making the claim that drinking untested blood was 100% safe and could not transmit possible disease....that almost made me gag upon reading it as this person used the claim of being an ambulance worker as the backup for this claim...which is entirely false, and very dangerous information to give to someone who is likely to then tell others.
so please reference your claims

Yes, by all means apply the guidelines to the current threads of "Creating a Werewolf" or "What do you do to get your mind off of the bloodlust". Just two of the current threads in the first section.

Of course we wouldn't won't to get off topic on those would we? :)

ok i lit my cigarette and im beginning my opinion.. now this is a very good post.. i must say. now to be honest i dont know alot about certain things.. i go to the forums to read and learn.. now tht you all know.. lol anyways i really feel that if someone doesnt spell words right if your so smart at spelling im sure common sence will tell you what they were tring to spell.. now myself i find v r very helpfull i am one with not a wide vocabulary or great spelling i am here to be me.. i dont judge people on here because they drink blood or they are vampires or witchs or what ever why should i be judged because i dont spell correct or i dont have a lot to say about a topic that is beiong tralked about... i do want to get some status from the forums but if i say little to one that doesnt mean i am not interested in the topic i just dont know what to say and i come back to read more to learn.... how ever i see people going and copie and pasteing things from searching online because they dont know the answers or what to comment i can do that too and put it in my own words but i dont... i dont understand why people has to be judged by a mis spelled word.. yeh i can see that point of maybe going and getting a spell-check but from what ive seen the people who mis spell ( includeing me ) the words are not that bad to where you dont know what it is sapose to be i may not know alot about vampire history or anything but im tring because im interested in it.. i am a way cool person and i know it youd know it to if you knew me... unless you judge fat people as well shit you have to deal with fat jokes from kids now you have to del with mis spelled words from adults... some people has problems which they quit school, some people has brain issues. theres a reason why people mis spell so what.... im sure there are people who mis spells and brings up the best answers or topics theres other pregudece things to be this way about and i feel it shouldnt be on spelling

LordFangor while your sarcasm at times is humorous, at this point you are not offering real suggestions for improvement. So I will kindly ask unless you intend to be constructive with your comments, keep the humour to a minimum since I did start this thread with a specific purpose.

However your point about going off topic, well to some there are aspects of spiritualism and even religion with the Vampirism and Werewolf ideals. Ironically I view it as insulting when these threads do go off track, but have to agree with the comment earlier that is because of how the question was formed that it goes off track.

Technically we state there is a high posting standard- in the VR Manual. What the discussion here is supposed to do is a few different things:

1. Express where people feel the frustration by identifying it.

2. Post possible solutions to the issue

3. Educate the current VR users to what the rules really are.

On a side note to Nightgame: The rule for posts is not to duplicate in 30 days. After that time period the question can be asked again. Ideally this will allow for new information or different people to post. The problem is- a thread closes, and someone opens part Deux even if there really isn't much to add right at that moment.

I belive their is only going to be one way for people to stop posting stupid forums and stupid answers, that is to take away the 10% score they get for posting to the forums. Otherwise it is going to keep happening i mean if the Dominars start to delete peoples post because of certain things they say or how they spell, then the new members are going to quit posting to the forums and they will probably just quit the site. I honestly think that a lot of the bad forum posts are from people who wants a quick 10% status increase, so take away the 10% status score increase then that will take away 80% of bad post.
Also i hear people saying that their are not a lot of good topics in the forums then why not post a forum on a topic you want to discuss then at least their will be some good topics you can not help a problem if you don't try.

very good thought R.K. im sure that it would help...in alot of ways

....is it not ironic that an article ridiculing us on our stupidity has brought forth one of the best threads as of late?....

I have to say i agree with Raven Knight on this
I have always argued against the current model for both how the status system works, and the favor system in it`s entirety.
the forums should have NO bearing on status, and I personally would happily lose a bit of status for this to happen, but then again I have always been a proponent of not giving a shit about status, personal hit counts, ratings, etc etc, for a site so dominated by people claiming to be individuals....there are lots of people who seem to give a shit what others think of them, the rating system is an absolute joke, because instead of rating true....99% of this site rates everyone a 10, making the whole system useless as a rationality guide given to George Dubya....

ok...I just finally read the article referenced for the start of this...and I must say....as a sometimes SA goon myself.....
looking from the outside in at this site...we do have the tendency to look like a bunch of flakes.....but only to people who only accept what science, and normality tells them...
but really try not to take that site too seriously....

People are posting for levels.
Yes thats what were supposed to do, but I agree, we must be interested in what we chose to respond to.
It's obvious.

i think the lack of intelectual discussions are from the ratings score..i notice more people just post in forums to level up rather than to get into a deep conversation.

Then people don't add well. If the status system were a flat scale then it would make a difference. But a percentage of 10% of a total is not going to up your status beyond a slight push.

A person will go further with rating than with forum posts. If you rate someone you DO NOT LOOSE THAT RATE. With the forums there is a real potential to loose that post if it becomes trash and is RIA'd.

I made sire with less than level 20 of the 10% total of ratings. Basically I was a level 19 of the total 10% for things rated. I know sires who have made sire with under level 5 in ratings of the total 10% that counts for ratings. While I understand how to do the math here- I suck because I can’t explain it in detail.

It seems Liebe pointed this out to start with- that this was not to be a discussion on levels, because frankly it is a fallacy that you need to max out forum posts to move up. Pages viewed and time spent are the primary level factors. Read the Manual it goes over this at length and I believe in the status system Cancer has done a great job in explaining the math.

Let’s keep this discussion about the topic- what can we do to improve the forums, as bitching about the status levels is not going to change as Cancer has stated. So let’s discuss what can be changed instead of a moot point.

In my opinion the other topics seem to be getting more attention because some can actually keep up a conversation in there. How many times I've reached this one and read the same headlines every week such as vampirism, dreams, favorite blood, blood gathering, real vampyres, etc. I would like to see more topics I can actually relate to such as darkness, depression, bloody, and black majick. Until then, I don't feel the need to repeat my answers to the previous topics I've seen already posted. In all honesty, it bores me...

Scarlett I don't really think it's that ironic, especially considering most people do not attempt change until they see themselves from an outside perspective.

To me, it's sad that more people are not proactive, and seem unable to take the time and efforts to go in depth.

The reason I wanted to detract from this Jenova, is because Cancer has stated in the past he will not change the status system.

He wants it as it is. So while your point has merit, it will not happen- and because of that, will not assist with what I see as the stated purpose of the thread. To find solutions to where we are now.

Sahahria: While I understand your reasoning that the 10% doesn't do diddly squat in terms of actual status, there is the perception that it DOES help out, even if just a tiny bit. Perhaps someone is sitting right on the cusp of their next level, posts "I agree" once or twice and then their level goes up. It's a learned behavior.

Cancer has done an excellent job of explaining the math; no one else bothers to try understanding it or breaking it down for themselves.

The only thing I would say with regard to your last post is that the perception is automatically created in the VR Manual that posting to the forums is going to help you boost your status. No one does the math, they only know that there are contributing factors towards gaining the level of Sire faster; forum posting is one of them. :(

So to that extent, while I agree it probably wouldn't be done, removing the reward for posting in the forums has the real chance to help alleviate at least part of the problem.

In reality, the only viable option I can see has already been posted; police your own threads and create topics of interest. I remember reading somewhere in this thread that someone suggested allowing posting new threads should be reserved for a higher level. Perhaps that might be another means of reducing the clutter on VR.

It seems human nature that the instant one is able to do something, they go do it regardless of whether it's intelligent or not. Take turning 21, for example. 21 hits and you go out with all your friends to the local bar and get smashed. Smart? No... but it's done just because it can be done and permission has been granted.

Likewise, people slam in new topics the instant they reach level 3 because... permission has been granted. Leaving the ability to post new topics til the same level you can be inducted might be an option. Personally I think it ought to be higher. Just like you can't create random polls until level 12 and aren't even allowed to post in the Vamp Box until level 7, maybe moving your first new thread in the forum to level 7 might be a significant help.

It doesn't cut down on the replies, but it has some real potential otherwise.

Leibe,

I guessed you missed the part where I said the forums are fine the way they are, or the part where I suggested that the responses to any forum thread come from members with at least a degree in something, or my suggestion that in order to start a thread the member must have at least a master's level. But that is fine, just babble on.

One thing I have not seen brought up on this topic, is that we are dealing with a WIDE age range here.

We have 14 year old 'children' on this site.

Ok, I don't know if this will make sense or contribute to this discussion, but I'm hoping it does.

Having read over the article, I am saddened by the fact that it took public ridicule to make our best forum thread ever.

In my opinion, due to the majority of new members being teens (as far as I've noticed), the focus of our forums has gone to Role-Play, and thus, I've lost interest in posting in many of the forums.

I miss the old days when I posted in intelligent conversations in the General Forum. Now, though, by the time I get to a thread I wish to post in, it's usually closed.

I agree that we have to police ourselves, and I have to thank the Dominars for doing their jobs the best they can. It's not easy, I know. I, for one, will do my best to police my posts before I click "submit".

LordFangor, if the forums are fine then you were posting without contributing. As for your comments about education, as sarcasm it was cute; for a suggestion it is down right rude and insulting. I again restate my previous comment, don't post unless you wish to contribute.

Minx you are correct there are many teens here, but I would remind you 14 does not mean that a person is unable to hold a discussion Artkema is a great example of a young person with wit and a firm ability to discuss. *sorry Art, had to* ;)

It is not the learning or different abilities that are being questioned, it is the seeming lack of care about what is posted. Most do not read the entire thread prior to posting, and then post something that removes from a discussion instead of adding to it.

It is sad that public ridicule is where we start to look at how we conduct ourselves in our own forums. Still I think it is a good opportunity to try to find unusual solutions.

Otherwise I will close this thread as done. Let's not beat a dead horse in this thread. Think outside the box and challenge ourselves to creative ways to change this.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.