The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

Facts from the Tiffany Sutton case:



Sexual encounter turns bloody

Tempe police arrested a woman Tuesday night on suspicion that she tied up a man during sex, then stabbed him repeatedly with a knife and told him she likes to drink blood.

Tiffany Sutton, 23, was arrested on suspicion of aggravated assault at 11:55 p.m. in the 1000 block of South Lola Lane, where she and the victim were living, police said.
The man told police he had consented to being tied up but became scared when the woman attacked him with a knife. He eventually freed himself and ran away, but Sutton chased him with a pickax, police said.

The man was taken in an ambulance to a local hospital, where he was treated for injuries.

Police were unsure if the pair were friends, but Sgt. Mike Horn said the man and woman were not in a relationship.

Both admitted to authorities that they had consumed alcohol and drugs prior to the attack, Horn said.

The man called his friend, who found him passed out and then called police. Sutton initially acted like she was the victim, Horn said.

Sutton later told police the entire encounter was consensual.


So, if it was consensual, then can this be said to be a crime?

One can draw some parallels with the Armin Miewes "Cannibal killer" case here. How does society treat people who act consensually (whether or not this was consensual is under debate) in sex?

How much is too much, too far?

What are your thoughts on this?

I would say that the repeated stabbing makes it a crime

Anyone who would drink, take drugs then go to someones house deserves what they get, and i do not think it has anything to do with vampires, a mental case did that not a vampire...

interesting i find it a crime if its no consensual and if it is then the crime wound be taking more then you need by stabbing real deep or drawing too much blood

if consentual, I am pretty would not need to be tied up to cut, so I would say probably consentual for tied up but not for cutting

well i think if its consensual then there should not be a problem but there is a thin line between consensual and dangerous. now if ur gonna be stabbing someone, you have to be careful about it. adn when someone is ready for u to stop u have to control urself.

however, i dont think this had anything to do with vampirism. she seems to just be into the freaky side of sex because in my opinion if she was into vampirism she would have been more respectful. the guy "victim" would have been more aware of what she wanted when she said she liked that kidn of thing.

there is something fishy about this. and as far as society goes... of course society looks down on soemthing like that... even if the man wasnt harmed adn they found out, society would look down on it because its different. just like they look down upon gays, and other races, and religions. i dont think it has anything to do with society. i think that chic lost her mind adn scared the shit out of that guy.

In the eyes of the LAW It is physical harm.
Causing harm to another is illegal. Even cases of self-defence CAN be a crime.

many of these crimes are said to be vampiric in nature, yet my mind tells me this is not but a plea of insanity. so many times are covered with the veil of insanity on murders and a good source to dwell in si vampiric. drinking, drugs and a stranger well duh what my happen,. this is my thoughts. just a insanity plea.

Both parties admitted to drinking and drugs before the act, and the act was consensual for most part except fro the stabbing and chasing the guy with a pick ax. This is someone who is loony toons and shouldn't be blamed on "vampires"

The whole thing makes me wonder about the vampiric elements..I feel that this is just a ploy for some kind of insanity defense or something.

I'm not sure how much this particular case has to do with society's treatment of vampiric sexual practices really. If this was a consensual vampiric event, there would be no reason for "society" to even know about it let alone be involved.
My thoughts are whatever goes on behind closed doors, between two consenting adults, vampiric or not.. is none of society's business.
This particular example is a bad example of two drunken, drugged up idiots who lost control of their own situation and should be judged based on that.. leaving the vampirism out of it.

that is odd of her to do that but i can understand, she should do a better job on picking someone next time.

It was only consensual to a point. Evidently the man's consent did not include her stabbing him or threating him with a pick ax.

Lesson learned right kids? Drugs...while really fun and a great use of our time...shouldn't be combined with knives or large deadly mining tools.

A few years ago a good friend of mine was attacked by a woman who seems to feed on sexual energy. No she wasn't a succubus. Nothing unworldly like that. She was however a witch of some kind. She raped him for hours. When his neighbors found him the next day he was barely alive. When asked how she was able to subdue him for so long, he just goes blank. Whether he was tied up, drugged or simply overpowered... nobody knows. He never even told me. Before the police could track her down, she vanished. I heard a local coven took care of her. I am not privy to the details but I know this story to be true.

I believe in the word NO. If that is uttered while I am engaged in sexual activity...I stop. Drugs and alcohol combined to make this situation into something it never would have been if the adults had behaved like adults.

well to me i do not see that the people listed in the above story are vampires but just maybe drug induced tendencies to cause unlawfully harm,i have never heard of a vampire sex act that involved knives and police i believe in our society we have a common respect for one another and have certain guidelines so that this does not occur and give us a negative view through the media.

The sad part is this is becoming more of an issue with in the vampiric community.... it's been posted several times GrieviousDemon and Imotep both posted things on people using vampirism as an excuse for doing things to others.... This case isn't vampiric this women was sick....

And I will ask what I always ask...why couldn't she have been a modern living vampire? Does the fact that she acted murderous or insane automatically mean she wasn't also a sang? Are modern living vampires immune from mental illness? Know the volume of them with manic depression, I'd say resoundlingly not.

The vampire community better get used to the idea that they may have members who are both mentally ill or at least mentally unbalanced and still very much a part of their community. When you marginalize someone and say they must have been wannabes because they acted crazy, it makes the vampire community look more like a club where membership can be revoked than a metaphysical state of being and something you are born with and awakened to.

of course there are stable and unstable vampires in our community;but is it right that the media says that every single one that does a crime that involves blood is a vampire? i say not!
there cannot be this many coincidences that are turning our community into something that people frown upon,like i said earlier the media does play a large role in this too.

I think it was consensual but I don't think the man expected her to attack with a knife like she did. I think he was expecting a simple cut, nothing like stabbing.

if that was the case..this would go to show you that you need to be fully aware and understand everything about the practices of such societies before getting into them..some are not capable of enjoying and the urges and thirsts that individuals partake of in this vampiric society and need to be in a place that they can be comfortable with.

Regardless of the "consentual" statement of the vic, what happened was the woman got carried away in her attempt to fullfill her needs. The law got involved because someone reported the misadventure as a crime. Perhaps the perp was into blood play, but chasing the man with a pickaxe is not usually in the scenario. She was not, I believe a vampire, but a sociopath who needs torture to get off.

I agree with SlaveAngel, this person has some serious issues, and using the vampire angle as some kind of self defense, which I think is a complete crock

I agree with bloodlust. Even if it is consensual, they should still be careful. And I think it becomes a crime when the practices involved SERIOUSLY threaten someone's life.

If your gonna play rough, you have to have a safe word. You have to talk to the other person and make sure you have their permission. Tieing someone up and then saying, hey can I cut u and suck ur blood? is the wrong way to do it. It's not a crime if it's consensual but he is saying it wasn't.
No offense to anyone but this is what drugs can do to you. You think someone says yes, or you yes and then sober up a little and decide against it. If your gonna roleplay, do S&M or anything that can lead to pain or death, there needs to be a safety word or phrase.
If I am gonna get kinky:) I do it with only my husband or if I was single, with someone I trusted to listen to my wants, needs, and fears and who wants to bring me pleasure not just pain.

Totally!...I mean a vampire on drugs and alcohol would have acted far more responsibly right? And since we've got so many folks who discuss their state of being in terms of 'bloodlust' it's crazy to assume that a 'bloodlusting' living vampire acted stupid under the influence of alcohol and drugs so it MUST have been a wannabe and not a real living vampire.

Well first off if he didn't know her why did he go with her to a room use drug's and booze? I think he knew what was to come, but not the extreme of it. As for it being about vamp's I dont believe it, she was just flaked out on drug's. Anyone that drink's blood know's there no stabbing involved.A slice to hand ect...is the method.

I think if he didn't consent to the stabbing then it should be considered a crime, though not a sexual crime, as the actual sex was.

There's a big difference between a little kinky blood letting and stabbing someone and chasing them with a pickaxe. Just me, but I think that anything more than the smallest surface cut is going too far and can no longer be called "sexual practice" but goes to all out assault. Especially if the person feels they are in danger and have to make a run for it. Common sense, people!

havent heard about this but there seems to be a big differences in alil blood play and what that woman did..society sucks against any beliefs one has

You have to control yourself . with anything you do . No this was not a crime .

Oh my goodness... it bothers me to think that some people can't see where to draw the line. This is just obvious.

I don't even like to talk about little cuts with razors in a forum- but stabbing? Get real. I don't think this has anything to do with 'vampire'. This is criminal. This is why the vampire community will continue to have problems.

Alright... I concede... she could be a modern living vampire- just a whacked out modern living vampire.

if she really did attack him with a knife than yes that is a crime i think it went to far when the knife was pulled out

Consensual or not, literally stabbing someone is not a form of bondage or any of that kind of stuff. It is a criminal act.

First thing that comes to mind BS.

I agree with shadewolf it does bring the flag of bs to full mast.

i would have to agree with felix on the fact that alot of vamps are manic depressives and other disorders and it does not matter. the fact that alcohol and drugs were involved and no one knows what kind of drugs were involved, so it is easily to assume that she was a nut case, but just what if she was in a crazed drug and alcohol induced blood-lust, but us vampires do not do that now do we??

Plus, who do you think they would blame it on, but the vampires, because they do not understand us and most fear us. Just like when the witches were blamed for everything, so human nature has not changed, so what does it truly matter . You can not change peoples thinking unless you educate them and most people do not want to know or even care to know. the only way to change things is to bring the awareness up and educate people.

Lols, Felix - I tasted the sarcasim in that.

Anyways, its very well possible that she could have been a modern vampire and on the bloodlust stuff.

consentual to a point but the stabbing to much and the axe to much.

I've had a friend who was feeling the bloodlust thing for a long while, however she didn't lose her mind and chase someone with an axe.

Therefore it makes me really curious as to what the deal really is.

Maybe she was some bloodlusting sang with issues in the head. Maybe she was just someone with issues in the head.

but she was still attempting to harm someone (obviously) and alot of the time 'I'm a vampire or ' Mental illness' has to do with less jail time and etc.

I agree with BloodLust. A real Vampire wouldn't commit such a crime. Vampires and occultists are respectful. We follow a moral code. Our partners are our intake. Not some stranger you meet in a hotel. Besides, there is only so much blood you can drink. Before you are dead! That guy deserved it. And she should be ashamed of herself for committing the act, then playing dumb. The guy was just looking for a good time. Well, I guess he had one!

id also have to say crime..

unless it was a fetish for both of them

well.... I'm not sure... if they were both drinking and using drugs, something was bound to happen.... on second thought... repeated stabbing is kind of psycho....

Nightwing - So you're saying that all modern living vampires are law abiding citizens and incapable of acting weird when under the influence of both alcohol and drugs. C'mon. I'm not suggesting that this is any kind of normal case or normal person. I'm merely pointing out how every time someone acts crazy and claims vampire, the living vampire society says they're wannabes. It's a defense mechanism because everyone knows that it gives a bad rep to the culture. But there's crazies in every culture. It is arrogant and unbelievable to assume that living vampires don't have their share of whack jobs.

Felix, as always your sarcasm is delicious, as well as accurate.

This woman may well have been sang, may well have been overtaken by "bloodlust" ..whatever.. It doesn't excuse her actions nor erase the influence of drugs and alcohol.
So while society shouldn't use her as an example to judge the entire vampiric community, I agree, the vampiric community shouldn't automatically assume she's not a vamp because she acted irresponsibly (to say the least).

Mistress Moonlight...Thank you and that's my point exactly. I appreciate the fact that this is criminal and shouldn't be supported. You're absolutely right. But as you said, knowing that it's wrong and not supporting it doesn't mean denying that they might be living vampires either.

Well, the man said that he had consented to being tied up. He did not say whether he had also consented to donating blood to her thirst, all he said was that he had become frightened when she pulled the knife. Maybe he had consented to begin with because he thought that when she said she liked to drink blood, she meant she would be biting him. I personally know quite a few men and women who would be willing to be bitten to donate blood, but will cringe in absolute terror when a knife or other sharp foreign object is introduced.

In short- I think it may have begun as consentual and then he changed his mind. So in all fairness considering how many men have been locked up on charges of rape in somewhat similar circumstances to my theory, I would have to say that this is, indeed, a crime.

Well if both people consent to EVERYTHING about the sexual practice then I don't see anything wrong with it.

i agree

I agree about the media and peoples reactions. The media always finds the bad in society and they especially LOVE to find things like this and say how "Evil" they are. BDSM, Vampires, Wiccans, anything non-basic is always shown in the worst possible light. I also think he consented to both. It said he later admitted that the entire thing was consensual. So basically he lied because he didn't want anyone to know what he was into because he knew society would label him as "weird" or "crazy".

I think that it's just going to start becoming another excuse people will be using for whatever insane stupid bullshit they are going to do.

OMG, for starters drinking and parting with strangers is one thing but to me you have crossed a line to let someone you don't actully know take you to a hotel room and tie you up. You might get a little more then you bargin for.

Hmm, I'm not sure how things work in the US, but I'm pretty sure in the UK you can't be charged with assault unless the victim pressed charges (or can be proven to be of dimished responsibility) in which case I don't think its technically illegal if both parties are consenting and survive! (of course Murder can not be concented to untill they change the laws on euthanasia)

As to wether she was a vampire or not, no evidence in the report either way to decide!

My instincts tell me likely not, otherwise I think the press would have been even more all over it.... but thats just my opinion.

I have to agree with Felix, simply because You

(bugger) Just becasue YOU and sensible and controlled does not mean ALL are.

(Sorry, must have mistyped something on the above message, wanted to finish it off here!)

The chick seems to be a tad bit kinky but, not vampric...
I get the whole blood thing, but STABBING? DAMN! i dont thing she should have gone so far without the man knowing what he was getting into...

Besides the fact that Felix ROCKS!!!

This is something I have not heard of before. If this woman was Vamp or not does not matter. We are even trying to sterotype her right here in this forum. After reading so many posts replies saying that the outer community is sterotyping us... See the point?

This was crazy. When under the influence of drugs you are not automatically immune from being helped by the law. As a matter of fact, you are more inclined to be helped by the law. Most experiences we have had drinking and cops has probably been bad. But from experience I know that if you are attacked while intoxicated or under the influence you are considered mentally unable to make choices. Kind of like someone jumping an 83 year old woman in her home. You are unable to defend yourself. The law should have been involved and for the few that said they should keep there noses out of it and leave this alone please message me when you get out of the ropes and stop bleeding so I can be your shoulder to lean on walking you down to the local police station and having the crazy ass locked up. That is where you need to grow up and realize that just because you are stupid or 'off' somedays means you deserve anything like that.

Consensual is fine but to go out and stab someone during this is wrong but it sounds a little wierd the stories don't add up

I have to agree with calmingchaos and a few others with the drinking and drugs, just add stupidity and that is what happens!

I think if you are under the influence of alcohol or drugs and you agree to being tied up, you deserve what you get. Althought the stabbing is kinda scary, *repeats to self* "I will never drink or do drugs.. I will never drink or do drugs.
Knives are scary..!

WOW.. I guess you guys did not see that post above. No... getting what you deserve for being under the influence of anything does not involve hate and violence. That is called a crime even if it is consentual... Morals should tell you that just because is not an answer.

I am here to tell you that sometimes, shite happens and just becuase it happened does not mean you deserve that. Come on now...

If the "Vampire's" sexual practices are to be discussed, then perhaps... again... it is key to that discussion to consider what was the single greatest characteristic of the actual Historical Vampire as opposed to the entirely fictitious image of the bloodthirsty asexual vampire of fiction.

As recorded in the original Eastern European gypsy accounts beginning in the 1300s (500 years before the vampire pulp fictions), vampires were primarily sexual beings who sexual practices far exceeded that possible by normal males today:

"The vampire of folklore is a sexual creature, and his sexuality is obsessive– indeed, in Yugoslavia, when he is not sucking blood, he is apt to wear out his widow with his intentions, so that she too pines away, much like his other victims."

-- Vampires, Burial and Death: Folklore and Reality; P. Barber, 1988; p. 9
- http://www.angelfire.com/tn/vampires/essay.html (emphasis added)


"Gypsies believed some vampires (the Nosferati) had an insatiable sexual appetite and would return from the grave to have sexual relations with their widow or a young woman of their choosing."

-- The Vampire Book, J. Gordon Melton, 1999; p. 616
- http://www.netjava.com/~f14lover/info.html (emphasis added)


"The folklore of Russia also described the vampire as a sexual being. Among the ways in which it made itself known was to appear in a village as a handsome young man. Circulating among the young people in the evening, the vampire lured unsuspecting women to their doom."

-- ibid.; p. 617(emphasis added)


"Gypies thought of the vampire as a sexual entity. The male vampire was believed to have such an intense sexual drive that his sexual need alone was sufficent to bring him back from the grave. His first act usually was to return to his widow, whom he engaged in sexual intercourse. Nightly visits could ensue over a period of time, with the wife becoming exhausted and emaciated."

-- ibid.; pp. 616-617(emphasis added)


"The sexual nature of the act is plainly indicated in the following examples. Heinrich von Wlislocki*, in his researches into Roumanian superstitions tells us: ...With young people it (The Nosferat) indulges in sexual orgies until they get ill and die of exhaustion. It often happens that women are impregnated by this creature and bear children..."

- On the Nightmare, E. Jones, pp. 117-118 (emphasis added)
* a noted Austrian Gypsologist


"Mullos (Gypsy word for Vampire) also return to satisfy their prodigious sexual appetites... They are so insatiable that their human partners are likely to weaken and become ill with exhaustion."

- The Complete Vampire Companion (R Guiley, pp. 9-10) (emphasis added)


You will no doubt notice that in all these varied original accounts, there is not one mention of blood drinking, blood letting, blood... anything.

The actual Historical Vampire was indeed insatiably "hungry"... but not for blood. ;)

Upir - Good to see you haven't given up the ghost yet brother. I've long since suggested that we're dealing with two distinct groups...vampires of legend and history (be they real or imagined - blood drinking or sexually insatiable) and vampires of the modern living variety whose relation is in name only (and a source of great contention I must say). The modern living variety is neither proven nor wholly accepted considered either a subculture, a fetish or a religion...but for the sake of respecting belief, I acknowledge them.

Hey, bro... good to see you again, too.

And yes, of course it depends on which end of the vampire image you ascribe to: the origins or the popular-culture image with all its many myriad variations. Just puttin' it out there re: My own historical viewpoint. Thanx again!

If it's honestly consensual, and both people are really willing to do that sort of thing, then the law should keep its distance. What people do in their private lives is nobody's business but their own.

Society would have not known anything about this if it was not for two stupid ignorant people, so i do not think this has anything to do with vampric sexual practices this has to do with nutcases sexual practices...

It looks to me when he was tide up she realized she had complete control , & flipped out to the extinct of almost killing him ...

Yes...this could have quite possibly been a case of the drugs and alcohol pushing instinct to the forefront and losing control to her more primal nature. I don't see any reason she might not consider herself and others might not consider her a living vampire. It seems quite in line with many who have complained of blood lust and thoughts of violence on this very site. The drugs just pushed her over the edge to action.

i would have to disagree about if you are taking drugs and drinking you deserive what you get, thats like telling a person who weras a skirt and gose out for a walk one night and gets raped its there fault, i do think there is conciqunses for what you do deffeitly, sounds more like it was a s and m session gone wrong, when practing blood letting something like should not happnen thats just a little to creppy

it sounds like this lady went a little crazy.. may have started off as fun .. but i guess she lost it somewhere

What she did is crazy. There are other ways of bloodsharing

If someone wants it done to them , then yes it can be argued there was consent. My question is on how sane someone is that does this and how sane is the person alowing it to be done to them?

As with every sexual act.... albeit missionary style and/or floggings to tying someone up, to blood fetishes... their needs to be open communication and not with drugs and/or alcohol coursing through your veins, which leads to some very bad judgment calls. Where was the "safe" word in this whole fracas? Is it a law type crime? I waver on this. The crime is that neither practiced safe nor sane play.

I think this is society's treatment of a CRIME.

I would think sometimes that vampires might go a little over board.

The sex was by consent but the cutting how ever u look at it is illegal

I believe that it started out as a fetish for both and then spiraled out of hand because the woman seems to me to be crazy! Of course it could all of had been the drugs they partook in as well. But if you consent to someone you really don't know, your the fool. I don't believe it had anything to do with vampirism however.

No it doesn't . It just gets coined as Vampir sexual practices b/c of blood and type of clothes and music a persone has .

Well let me weigh in as a lawyer, vampire and active BDSM lifestyler.

This is certainly not meant as legal advice and laws can vary a lot from state to state but my general observations are:

1. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with vampirsm at all. No real vampire would be the least bit interested in drink blood from a knife wound IMHO.

2. You can consent to a certain degree of injury but let me qualify that a little.

2a. People who are drunk or screwed up on drugs probably lack the capacity to give consent in the first place.

2b. You probably cannot give consent to forms of play that would inherently lead to grave bodily harm or death.

Bottom line, don't mistake nut cases for vampires, and when playing the BDSM standard of Safe, Sane and Consensual is probably not a bad idea for any type of extreme play.

BDSM is one thing - GBH is another. there is a difference between kinky and downright dangerous. knife play is not that unusual, and some people do get off on being exposed to danger, but to chase your victim with a pick-axe? i have no doubt she would have killed him had she caught him. this is how serial killers start - going a bit too far, and killing someone because they are afraid of the consequences of being reported for their actions. then the killing becomes the thrill.

Well he consented to being tied up and obviously had something else in mind at the time.

I would say this case is a crime as he didn't consent to being stabbed repeatedly and then chased with a pick axe.

In my books if BOTH partners consent to all the activities, then its not a crime. But if it goes wrong and one doesn't consent as with this case, then it would be a crime. We all have the right to choose, and behave how we wish.

i kinda think that if some one is into that kind of act like that woman was if she wasnt insaine, if she wants to do stuff like that i think she needs to make a contract , like a lot of people do in the s and m life style saying what they will or will not do and both partys sing it,

Consensual sexual activities are a private matter. When one enters into a sexual relationship the should be some element of trust. It is within this trust that when one of the partners says stop, enough, the other is obligated to honor their wishes. When these wishes are not honores that is when it b ecomes a crime .

Repeated stabbing does make it sound like attempted murder but the possiblity that they were both on drugs at the time perhaps one took more then the other and just lost control...

Or maybe he just wanted to cover it up maybe he was embarassed of liking such things...then again why would he have ran...

Bear with me as I only read the question itself and a small number of responses.
He did later admit to it having been consentual, but the fact is that whether or not you sign a contract, physically harming another is illegal, regardless of your paperwork.
this is why most BDSM groups are very untrusting and somewhat paranoid if they are smart, because most of what they call play, the government calls torture, and only the government is allowed to OK someone to be tortured(ya i know....political dig)
but all of that aside, this woman obviously is mentally unstable, most likely not only due to drugs, and anyone sane knows that while cutting can be a rush, stabbing is likely to mean you have to dispose of a body, which in this day and age...is very very hard to do.
as felix mentioned, our type of people are somewhat prone to mental anxieties, and some disturbing social behaviors, WE need to watch for this in our own, as situations like this hitting newspapers is harming only US who live this lifestyle, and ARE sane and rational people....we need to be a self policing group
If I knew some in our community were getting to the point of actually trying to kill someone, I would be the first to make the call for the guys in the white coats to come pick you up......I'd do it not only for your own good, but for the good of OUR community as a whole

Anything consensual shoyuld never be a crime.

You break the law, you pay the price. I don't care what your 'lifestyle' is.

If a person asks you to cut off their hand, does that make it okay?

Mmm i'd like to get in bed with that girl!

Obviously some better care should be taken when deciding who you trust to tie you up and play blood sports with.

Consensual doesn't mean that he agreed to be chased with a pickaxe or that he agreed to be stabbed.

Consensual doesn't change assault no matter how kinky it was supposed to be. However, it would have to be a fairly serious assault (like the example at top) for the state or government in question to feel it worth prosecuting. Lack of prosecution however, doesn't mean that a response to a complaint from either party or anyone nearby, woudn't result in a night in jail for someone.

I couldn't agree more with what hurtsoulless said. You have it coming to you when you act like that.

Act like what specifically? A vampire?

BDSM? Bloodplay? Or drug use? None of which seem to be particularly deserving of life threatening assault.

She was cuttin' him up and drinkin' his blood and was only charged with aggravated assault? What about attempted murder or armed criminal action to name just a couple others...

But on the other hand the idiot guy kinda put himself into the situation.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.