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Walk on Water: Scientific Reasoning
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rosho
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19:49:20 Feb 06 2008
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Do you believe anybody can walk on water? and how do you think it is possible, if you think so? Explain the scientific reasoning behind your claim.




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RavenEyes
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19:52:45 Feb 06 2008
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"Anybody" as in just regular humans? No, I don't think so.



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rosho
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19:53:44 Feb 06 2008
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Yep just regular Humans.



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Skjaldepigen
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20:00:14 Feb 06 2008
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Well, Chris Angel proved he could so I would say yes.

Maybe if you concentrate hard enough it is possible. It is the same with mothers lifting up trucks for their children etc. The human body and mind are capable of many great things under extreme pressure of concentration.



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Angel4Blood
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20:01:17 Feb 06 2008
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i believe that people walk on water even tho the water is frozen it is still water.



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cadrewolf
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20:02:03 Feb 06 2008
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Illusions of chris angel and others say you can, yet for many no chance to walk on water, unless you were lighter than water.



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demonnous1xx
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20:03:04 Feb 06 2008
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I'm no scientist but I think the water would have to be very dense for you to be able to.



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Wolfsbohne
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20:05:22 Feb 06 2008
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Like ice?



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demonnous1xx
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20:08:06 Feb 06 2008
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No not like ice but like how the water in the dead sea is.



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Angel4Blood
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20:10:33 Feb 06 2008
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there is no sea dense enough



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Cyan
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20:11:53 Feb 06 2008
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If it is cold enough anyone can walk on water.
*grin*



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TheRat
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20:12:21 Feb 06 2008
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As Cadre said, to walk on water you must be lighter than the fluid...

As for the idea of anyone who was recorded as standing on water.. well perhaps it was a submerged rock, or sandbed that they stood on to make the illusion appear as if the person was standing on water :)



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demonnous1xx
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20:13:26 Feb 06 2008
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Sorry, what I'm trying to say is IF it was possible to walk on water the water would have to be very dense, way more denser than the water in the Dead Sea.



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RAAGIOSL
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20:13:43 Feb 06 2008
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NO



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lavisbre
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20:15:21 Feb 06 2008
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no man cant walk on water unless it's ice or mixed with something ie salt in huge amounts makes you float more ...Walking on water in the bible story comes as a parable for the sun that is seen reflecting on the water…. Expressed and misinterpreted.



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darkchyld
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21:06:04 Feb 06 2008
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I saw the episode where Chris walked on water.. That was cool. I do believe it can be done . The power to believe



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Lestatslittleslave
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21:18:07 Feb 06 2008
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I think the only way you would be able to walk on water is if you arein the right mindset and there are enough people around who believe that you can. Then you would have plenty of energy around that would help you proceed with the task. In other words, i think is it all mental.



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VW39
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21:19:07 Feb 06 2008
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No, its impossible.

And as for the Criss Angel or whatever, he's an illusionest. Duh.



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Polishsiren
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21:38:06 Feb 06 2008
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I found a simplified website that explains the scientific reasoning of Walking on Water with a action and reaction of a water spider. It's too long to post here but it's a very quick read



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TheRat
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21:59:07 Feb 06 2008
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Lavisbre, I have been to the Dead Sea and the waters there are so salty that it is impossible to do anything else other than float. That doesn't mean you can stand on top it like you say unless the concentration of salt is thicker, but it is feasible to believe that, that particular parable back in Bibical days was set around the Dead Sea in Galilee.

The Dead Sea has many rocks before its surface, and it is possible to stand on a rock to make it appear as if you are "floating" on the surface :)



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Pattiwack
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22:02:57 Feb 06 2008
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If the water is frozen yes but not frozen no....



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VW39
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02:29:05 Feb 07 2008
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Patti whatever - That would be walking on ice, not water.



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PandorasBx
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02:33:04 Feb 07 2008
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If they could we would have heard about it by now. My answer is no.



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rosho
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02:35:02 Feb 07 2008
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It is not frozen water, just regular water. You know what I'm talking about.
I've heard of yogi's who can make themselves lighter than water, or some who can skim across like one insect can, I think it was called the water treader.



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rosho
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02:37:08 Feb 07 2008
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but why not?



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Lightningsking
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02:42:07 Feb 07 2008
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the answer is that none can walk on water. The laws of gravity make it impossible to walk on water. As for Chris Angel he is a illusionist and it is all tricks to make it look like he did it



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PandorasBx
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02:45:30 Feb 07 2008
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rosho~~~do you have any links to support this theory?



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Obituary
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02:54:23 Feb 07 2008
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Interesting and fascinating.



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dabbler
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04:54:28 Feb 07 2008
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If someone had great balance and the mineral content of the water was high enough then I think yes someone could.The Red sea has a high mineral content.



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DestructionOfDeath
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05:01:35 Feb 07 2008
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You know I will say this much I believe it is all about how you use your energy.
I say this because I do not have a really great build but I can still make the effects of my hits felt because I concentrate my energy in my hands.
Another example I am a big guy so I should make a lot of sound but I don't cause I concentrate my energy in my feet.
So it is my belief you can do it if you concentrate your energy enough.



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DestructionOfDeath
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05:02:48 Feb 07 2008
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In energy I mean spiritual because jesus has a extreme amt of spiritual energy being who he is.



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lavisbre
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06:08:21 Feb 07 2008
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As far as I know jesus is the sun zeitgeist moves says it better
The sun looks like it’s on the water at sunset… thus walking on water




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BloodDrenchedRose
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07:05:07 Feb 07 2008
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I do not believe at all that it is possible for a human to walk on water



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AlchemistDamned
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14:22:02 Feb 07 2008
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Sure, the Chinese figured out how too long before Leonardo da Vinci. But then they used special buoyancy compensating boots. But to the scared villagers and fishermen I’m sure they said it was some work of magic.



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boneyardvixen
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15:19:21 Feb 07 2008
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No, people cannot walk on water.

As for the comment above about a mother lifting a truck to free her child, you should read about adrenaline. It increases muscle power and other amazing things when levels increase in the body under stressful situations.

I do believe in mind over matter but anyone who tries to walk on water will do nothing but go for a swim.



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MorbidAngels15
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15:20:43 Feb 07 2008
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Its impossible



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DestructionOfDeath
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15:22:26 Feb 07 2008
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Very true mi lady but then why was jesus able to???
Goes to boneyardvixen.



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BloodxXxOverDose
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15:22:37 Feb 07 2008
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walking on water yes i can walk on water but i can not walk on top of water,buti am sure you meant the latter,i think that whol walking on top of water is just pure fiction,or an expression like how poeple say they are on cloud 9



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DestructionOfDeath
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15:26:42 Feb 07 2008
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Blood why do youthink that?
people pit a reason why you say what you say because it helps the flow of the conversation.



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BloodxXxOverDose
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15:34:17 Feb 07 2008
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why i say it-is because i purely do not believe one has the ability to walk on water literally,but do feel it is an expression like i have mentioned in my previous post,i would surely believe it if i had seen such an experience with my own two eyes for my faith needs backbone and i am not one to agree easily until it becomes factual in an eye witness acount.
walking on water to me jsut means that you are on a super high level in that nothing can bring you down,like it is a positive way of thinking.



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DestructionOfDeath
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15:37:45 Feb 07 2008
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So I am sure you seen criss angel's episode where he did so if you did you did see it with your own eyes. Right Blood??



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BloodxXxOverDose
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15:41:05 Feb 07 2008
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well there is a difference between reality and illusionist,hence the name illusionist (not real0 just appears as it is real to the viewer,these are just my opinions.



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alixaryon
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15:52:16 Feb 07 2008
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I guess it is the same as levitation, one needs to have those parts of the brain responsible for supernatural feats, unlocked, and fully active, in order to exibit them.



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mysticwinds
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15:53:24 Feb 07 2008
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No...I do not believe people can walk on water. This is my opinion. If one person has done it, then why not others? Gravity holds us down.



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RAAGIOSL
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15:54:50 Feb 07 2008
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If the water was only a inch deep, it could give the illusion of walking on water.



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DestructionOfDeath
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If I may Blood how do you know it was a illusion??



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Andaeryk
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16:38:09 Feb 07 2008
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I thought this was to post our opinion, not to have to continually defend our opinion to someone that for WHATEVER reason has decided to single out an individual and nit-pick his responses... how about this for an opinion.. I don't believe because Blood said so??



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icefireangel85
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16:40:56 Feb 07 2008
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maybe if it is frozen haha still counts right?



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EternalXRage
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16:43:59 Feb 07 2008
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I don't anyone really can. I think that the stories of people walking on water are just the result some ones over active imagination.



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specterdrake
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17:59:11 Feb 07 2008
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i think the people that perform this act just happened to know were the stones were at just under surface of the water they "walked" on



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DestructionOfDeath
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Andaeryk I am not fighting him & making him defend I am proposing questions that will make him think a little so please do not interfere with things you do not understand.



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Andaeryk
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18:29:34 Feb 07 2008
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I was invited into the conversation.. and requested to read your comments by Blood, thank you



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lavisbre
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If he wasn’t an illusionist he would do it all the time, he is known as an illusionist.
As for the religious man you speak of … some of us don’t believe he ever was real and walking on water associated with him is the sun shine on the water…. A parable only … please did you watch my link four or ten post back?



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JackofSpades83
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18:35:07 Feb 07 2008
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Chris Angle walking on water? Come on people. HE IS A MAGICIAN! Nothing more. It was a trick. Pure and simple.

I do not believe that someone can walk on water regardless or their will or concentration.

I could will myself to poo out gold coins and become rich, but I guarantee it will never happen haha.



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Spellweaver
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18:36:34 Feb 07 2008
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Nobody needs to defend themselves or made to think. If it continues, some member's posting rights will be removed - for them to "think about" what they did.



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lavisbre
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18:37:22 Feb 07 2008
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I don’t know jack of spades … where there’s muck there’s money lol



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Spellweaver
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As for the original poster's question: it comes from information that was in the "Autobiography of an Yogi." It is not based on solely JC and his famous walk. If you read any of these books you would know what each implies.

It great to hear the comparison about the many stories but it does not mean that they did not happen. Krishna himself said in the Gita that he does come into the world when it is necessary. Which means more than once! But as JC's walk, read the story and you would know that everyone in the boat was asleep! Peter had what we now know as a lucid dream. He slept walk into the water and then wake-up. Read it. JC was nowhere to be seen afterward. But anyone that has these dreams would swear, on the bible, that it was real.

One explanation does not, and is not, the only one at times.



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ImmortalMistress
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18:51:16 Feb 07 2008
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Honestly, walking on water? Has aneyone here EVER seen anyone walk on water (& I don't mean through the magic of television). What other threads are going to be started? How about "can people fly" can someone be chopped in half & still live" ??????



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ImmortalMistress
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18:53:35 Feb 07 2008
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Oh & Andaeryk if you want to give your opinion on this 'general discussion forum' then I don't think you should be put off!!! How rude!!!



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DestructionOfDeath
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18:57:33 Feb 07 2008
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I am leaving this post for I am talking to brick walls & nobody understands what I am trying to do.
Such narrow-mindness.



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UTAHVAMP
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18:58:27 Feb 07 2008
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Mind over matter, learn to control the energy flow in your body, concentrate an oppisite charge than that of water and walla it would push you away, however in all honesty a normal human I have never heard of being able to do this feat.



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Spellweaver
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18:59:48 Feb 07 2008
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As for some of these stories in India go well, its India. People expect to see weird things and accept them easier. If you would see your neighbor floating in the air or walking on water you wouldn't be able to adjust to it. After all, its against the laws of nature and gravity! You could not process the information correctly. But there are other laws that we do not as a society know of that does allow these superhuman feats to work.

Quantum physics is only beginning to see these other worlds. India has known this for centuries! Avatars have spoken of hearing the planets sing, feats unheard of are very common to them. Did you know that the smallest single particle has conscience? And that everyone and everything is connected to each other?

Very few do. Its no wonder that these feats are impossible. For you they are. But for the few ...



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ImmortalMistress
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19:09:11 Feb 07 2008
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After spending quite a lot of time travelling round india & witnessing for my self some of the 'miracles' that are performed ther I can honestly say I believe them all to be illusions, albeit some of them very convincing. I have stayed in the ashram of a man who believes himself to be the current incarnation of God & has millions of followers around the world. Even in India I have NEVER seen anyone waly on water & this is because it is physically impossible. Come on - think about it!



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DestructionOfDeath
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19:19:09 Feb 07 2008
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I am sorry forgive my posts & well no body threaten me with my post rights removed.



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Spellweaver
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Well , that is a major issue here. Because it is physically impossible - as we understand it. Only G_d can do the impossible. Add that and the phrase, "I and the Father are one," and well, you know what happened to that. Understand the phrase and you might start to understand other "impossible" things. Fact is, we don't fully understand everything. Never will. But we can feel everything. So retrain yourself to whats out there - by feeling it!



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DawnofDays
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19:33:31 Feb 07 2008
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i think it is possible for alot can be done that can not be explained, you just have to believe.



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DestructionOfDeath
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19:46:35 Feb 07 2008
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Well I will ask something what was helping criss angel if anything name it?



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JackofSpades83
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19:50:21 Feb 07 2008
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What was helping Chris you ask. Here is a hint. Just about everything you saw on the TV. I'm not going to give away any specific details. Sorry.



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DestructionOfDeath
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19:59:51 Feb 07 2008
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If I may why not jackofspades it would be intresting to know.



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BillytheJust
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20:05:30 Feb 07 2008
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We have had Criss Angel threads before in the Sandbox. He does not belong here. What part of illusionist and entertainer don't people understand? Everything you saw on the show has part of the "act." Everything - and one! Move on.



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DestructionOfDeath
DestructionOfDeath

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20:07:39 Feb 07 2008
Read 815 times

Okay you got it chief.
So I found this site this is what it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_on_water.



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ImmortalMistress
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20:08:13 Feb 07 2008
Read 813 times

Well said Billy!



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captainglobehead
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20:09:13 Feb 07 2008
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There is a reason Mr. Angel does his act in front of a crowd on camera, and not in a controlled environment where his illusions may be studied and scientifically proven. It is a trick.



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DestructionOfDeath
DestructionOfDeath

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20:09:29 Feb 07 2008
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FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT WISH TO READ IT.

Walking on water is one of the miracles that the Gospels attribute to Jesus. An account of the miracle appears in the Gospels of John (John 6:16-21), of Matthew[1] and of Mark [2]. According to the Biblical narrative, Jesus sent the disciples in a boat, ahead of him, to Bethsaida, but when they were half way across the lake, Jesus walked over the lake and met them. The narrative states that the disciples were scared at first, thinking it was a ghost, but when Jesus revealed himself and got into the boat, they calmed down. According to Matthew (but not Mark or John) Peter was also able to walk on water, following Jesus's example[3].

Walking on water has subsequently become a colloquialism used when a seemingly impossible task is actually being managed. Also, when one person admires another with an intensity bordering on the irrational, it will frequently be said that "So-and-So believes that Such-and-Such walks on water".

In ancient Egyptian Mythology the God Horus walked on water, and in ancient Greek Mythology the giant hunter and son of the gods Orion walked on water. Hindu, Buddhist [4], and Greek [5] traditions have stories about characters walking on water.

An Egyptian story, told by another son named Bauefre, is set during the reign of Khufu's father Sneferu. ... one of the girls loses an amulet - ... The king laments this, and the chief lector folds aside the water to allow the retrieval of the amulet, then folds the water back. (This may be considered more closely equivalent to Moses's Parting of the Red Sea than to the Walking on Water.)

Scientific view

Sketch by Leonardo da Vinci about floating shoes.In April 2006, scientists placed a controversial theory in which they claim that Jesus may have actually walked on thin ice rather than water. Scientifically, the suggestion was controversial because it assumed the Bible was a fairly factual piece of evidence in recording this event. Religiously the suggestion was controversial because it argued that the Biblical event could have been just an illusion. Others have noted that the Bible never tells how deep the water was, although it is noted that it must have been deep enough for boats to stay adrift and float, as Jesus walks on water towards boats on the water.

The effect of walking on water can be created by having the walker step onto an object that is submerged just below the surface of the water. One example of this was seen in Melbourne, Australia in Ron Barassi's involvement in the 2006 Queen's Baton Relay, where he traversed the Yarra River on a pontoon that was just beneath the water's surface.

Some animals can actually walk on water. By distributing weight in such a way that surface tension does not break, there will be sufficient buoyancy to avoid sinking below the surface - an effect exploited by certain insects (such as the water strider) and some spiders. These animals have optimized body shapes and weight-to-water distributions for the task. The basilisk lizard can also run short distances across the water's surface, using a different mechanism.

[edit] Interpretive criticism

Walking on Water, by Ivan Aivazovsky (1888).In the second volume of A Marginal Jew, subtitled Mentor, Message, and Miracles, John P. Meier individually examines all the miracle stories in the gospels to determine if, behind them, lay a historical kernel. He argues that the walking on water miracle is true theological narrative but not a historical story. The oral tradition, he finds, is embedded with Old Testament types (the declaration of Jesus 'I AM' is consonant with the early church view of him as Yahweh) and post-resurrection perceptions.

In particular, the narrative of the story seems to fall into the genre of apocalyptic (which is not to say eschatological; apocalyptic is here defined as a genre characterized by heavy symbolism and light-dark contrasts). Jesus first herds the disciples into a boat and casts them off alone; he then goes up to a mountain to pray, promising them he will meet them on the other side of the sea. The apostles have difficulty reaching the other shore, but then Jesus appears and all is well. As in the resurrection accounts, the disciples see him as a ghost before recognizing him. This is a metaphor, Meier asserts, for the early post-Easter church. Jesus leaves his disciples in the ascension while promising a return, but occasionally visits them in mid-journey to sustain them (through the Eucharist). As with all apocalyptic literature, it is meant to comfort a beleaguered community.

However Dr RA Cole, formerly of Moore Theological College Sydney has written: `It is impossible to think of this as meaning that he walked along the shore or along a sandbank, as some have interpreted it.The disciples, being fishermen, knew their lake well, and they would not have been terrified by that. There are no difficulties with Jesus walking on the water if we remember that he was the Son of God

WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THIS?



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specterdrake
specterdrake

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20:31:23 Feb 07 2008
Read 800 times

lavisbre you opened a can of worms and dont even realize, did you watch the whole movie? you should if you havent.

here is the URL

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

im makeing a new thread just for this subject.



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Polishsiren
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20:51:11 Feb 07 2008
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for one thing I have to say wikipedia is not a viable academic source to use since it's open to the public and anyone can update it



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DestructionOfDeath
DestructionOfDeath

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20:55:44 Feb 07 2008
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Then help us provide one then polishsiren.



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rosho
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20:59:36 Feb 07 2008
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Okay, first of all has anyone has read the book "Autobiography of a Yogi" if you haven't I would pick it up. It's got a very interesting explanation of how pretty much anyone can walk on water. Through mediation anything is possible my master says.



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Andaeryk
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20:59:51 Feb 07 2008
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Wolfkiller... is there anyone or any answer you would agree with?



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Polishsiren
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21:13:46 Feb 07 2008
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wolfkiller... I put a link up to a site... it's above in the thread



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captainglobehead
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21:13:54 Feb 07 2008
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OK, rosho, now I have homework...



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rosho
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21:17:05 Feb 07 2008
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Wow, I never knew this forum would go so fast.



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Andaeryk
Andaeryk
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21:18:21 Feb 07 2008
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there IS some really great info in here..



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lavisbre
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21:18:32 Feb 07 2008
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sorry wolfkiller
i dont belive in the jesus story due to my lack of faith
it's imposible for it to of ever lived let alone walk on water... thats just my view



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TheRat
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21:31:26 Feb 07 2008
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Getting back on track to the thread theme and the science of walking on water...well I think if there is value to that, then there is also value in trying to find a scientific reason as to why there is a crock of gold at the end of the rainbow...



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Polishsiren
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21:52:50 Feb 07 2008
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Yeah and why only leprechons have charge of that gold! LOL



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La6Muerte66
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22:00:01 Feb 07 2008
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I'm too lazy to read all the posts, but it's physically impossible to walk on liquid water. Quite simply, it would have to be solid, or nearly so.

Don't bother stating nonsense like "the human body is 70-something percent water." The other percent is mostly far denser than water. The pressure on your feet would have to be lower than the surface tension of the water itself.



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CrozzDeNook
CrozzDeNook

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22:02:59 Feb 07 2008
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Well, to tell the truth, it is possable to walk on water, even thow i have been debated about this before...wait untill it becomes a solid...Ice...becuase it is still truly water...is it not? its just in a solid form...



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birra
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22:24:25 Feb 07 2008
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So... ok, we've determined that people can walk on ice... otherwise you have to have strong faith in something unquantifiable to think people can walk on water.

And we now have a hundred posts all saying those same things basically.

Moving on....

Oh, no, wait.. we need a few more "I agree with..." and "This is fascinating" posts so people can boost their post scores.

Carry on.



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rosho
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23:25:09 Feb 07 2008
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Ever heard of something skipping like a rock. If someone was flung across with enough force they could skip on water. Also, if human somehow made it possible to not break the bonds of the water.



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La6Muerte66
La6Muerte66
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23:29:03 Feb 07 2008
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Now we're pushing the bounds of theoretical physics. Scientifically speaking, if you could reduce the pressure on your feet to less than the surface tension of water, it'd be possible, but you can't alter the surface tension of water without altering the chemical composition, and then it ceases to be water.



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VW39
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23:39:55 Feb 07 2008
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Well said captainglobehead.



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La6Muerte66
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23:43:16 Feb 07 2008
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Okay, rosho, having finally gone back and read your post about yoga...

I would say it's entirely possible to walk on water, but that's beyond the bounds of "science". Levitation and such are spiritual matters, and they can't be backed with "scientific" reasoning, which is why I avoided the topic. Good point, though.



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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23:46:51 Feb 07 2008
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"As for some of these stories in India go well, its India. People expect to see weird things and accept them easier. If you would see your neighbor floating in the air or walking on water you wouldn't be able to adjust to it. After all, its against the laws of nature and gravity! You could not process the information correctly. But there are other laws that we do not as a society know of that does allow these superhuman feats to work.

Quantum physics is only beginning to see these other worlds. India has known this for centuries! Avatars have spoken of hearing the planets sing, feats unheard of are very common to them. Did you know that the smallest single particle has conscience? And that everyone and everything is connected to each other?

Very few do. Its no wonder that these feats are impossible. For you they are. But for the few ..."

I was going to write out some long drawn out thing,with all kinds of probable explainations,but the Demon here said it better than I could.
And everyone? That demon? Dont piss it off..he can be a real shit.
Oh,and planets really DO sing.



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La6Muerte66
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00:08:18 Feb 08 2008
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Don't be of the opinion that I support modern science, for it is still very far from perceiving true reality, but as far as scientific reasoning is concerned, this discussion is based on science, however limited...



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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00:12:20 Feb 08 2008
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Sure,science is limited,but it is a great tool to help define the energies that are around us and that play a part in these things that are called paranormal or magick.And just because Science might be limited..dont let your minds be because of an old idea of something ..



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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00:14:10 Feb 08 2008
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on a last note,I feel science has done a pretty good job of explaining many things that were simply described before as "supernatural" or paranormal"with NO other explaination other than that.
JMHO



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La6Muerte66
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00:17:45 Feb 08 2008
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It's come a long way, but modern science is still a good long way from recognizing and explaining the supernatural. TRUE spiritual matters are still beyond the scope of scientific reasoning. How, for example, would it explain astral projection or bi-location?



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Oceanne
Oceanne
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00:27:28 Feb 08 2008
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For now yes,some things are unexplainable.And there are things that are being explained now about TRUE soirit or what have you,and peeps STILL refuse to put two and two together..so what can you dfo? I say be just as damn good on the science end as one is on the spirit end and the balance will be good.And to expect for everyhting to be discovered and explained in one's own generation? Sorry,Im not even gonna hope for that one..but it doesnt,by any means,mean it wont happen.



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VR System
VR System

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00:27:28 Feb 08 2008
Read 706 times

This thread has been automatically closed for length.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by VR System on Feb 08 2008  •

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