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Everybody has their own thoughts on whats really out there. What I'd like to ask is this: what is your opinion on the meaning of the Universe? (Do you think that theres more to the Universe than meets the eyes?)

I think there's other lifeforces. There has to be..We can't be the only planet with life on it. The universe is just to big and unexplored for us to think we are.

I agree, the universe is supposedly never ending... in something THAT large, there is no way possible Earth is the only planet that holds life. Even if it's a microscopic organism in the earth, it's still life nonetheless.

The meaning of the universe is simple, it's to contain life, to contain the planets, solar systems, etc that allow life to grow. Say humans = a lifeboat. Earth would be the ship it's riding on and the universe would be the ocean the ship is sailing in.

I think there are other life forms out there that are extremely advanced in technology. Or we'd probably of found them already.. and with the finding of new planets there's more to explore than we were taught when we were in elementary. :P

Yes that would be the clue that there is life on other's.

The poor human minds we have have made it to where we can't explore far enough yet.

And I would not want to be alive when we do find them because they might be stronger and we may not survive it.

Now my question is do you think the human race would try to become friends with them and live in harmony or want to destroy them?

I say destroy because the Human race has always had the indulgence of destroying everything and everybody trying to rein supreme over all.

Its not a matter of reigning supreme, it's a matter of humans want to destroy ANYTHING different than themselves. Majority of the world is hetrosexual and most (not all) dislike those of any other sexual nature. How many creatures have we hunted to extinction because we are humans, we are superior to you mindless creaters *beats her chest*. It's a viscious circle that will never end.

I think a key to all this is that our visual minds can't comprehend what our intellectual minds tell us. Our math show there are multiple dimensions, but we can't comprehend beyond three, perhaps 4 dimensions.

This is the bases of my 1st book. Anyway more can be found in my journal..

1) God being the infinite, the all; created out of himself, the Universe. The Universe therfore, then, is God and God is the Universe.

2) All objects,all matter, has within itself a point of energy equal among all things. Never changing, ever present and universal. This energy is called zero-point. Zero-Point (z-p),the lowest point of energy possible, without it there is nothing and from it all things flow.

3) From this point we can touch the face of God.

4) Consciousness is a product of z-p yet z-p and the universe itself can be affected and changed by consciousness. Being that consciousness exists outside the body and at a lower energy point it is able to fundamentally change z-p more readily than other energy forms above it.

5) Because human consciousness exists with in the same layer of low energies as z-p (although at a different frequency) communication is possible between persons e.g. telepathy and shared dreams.

6) Z-P is the direct connection between the Universe, God and all things past, present and future.

7) As stated the mind can affect the Universe.

8) Perception makes real our experiences and our experiences are determined by our perception. Therefore our perception makes the Universe we experience.

9) We know that our perception changes our experiences or shall we say our reality. For it is known that a positive outlook yields itself to a positive day.

10) From these basics we can now understand how even our observation changes what we observe.

11) As we observe an object or person it, our observation changes it on a quantum level. Then our perception changes, rightly or wrongly, the nature of the observed. For example if I perceive a person bad based upon presuppositions that person then to me is in fact bad, even though they may not be. Also as I observe a particle my body and thoughts alter the environment around that particle thus changing the particle itself.

12) Through the proper advancement of our minds we can both singly and as a group influence and even directly change our surroundings. From the simple snowflake to complex weather systems.

13) As we increase our ability to reach the frequencies of the ambient energies of the Universe, e.g Z-P etc, we then can have more control over the Universe and in time become, as it were "gods"

14) In Geneses the Devil tempts Adam and Eve with knowledge so they could become as God. Knowledge however is only a part of godhood. Without the proper wisdom knowledge may only yield destruction.

15) It is not possible for we within ourselves to become God, for God is all and we are only a part. However it is possible to become "a god'. The Bible in the Book of Job, calls us gods. For the fact that we are made of God give us the ability to, with the proper knowledge and wisdom, become a god.

16) The idea of a god (as separate from a single supreme God) is one who is both wise and knowledgeable, one who has the urge to create and bring about some order or perfection.

17) The human race has, as a goal, the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom we as humans seek to create not only by giving birth but also by building, and with science creating absolute new forms of life. We seek justice and order in hopes of a perfect future, Humanity has due to our source of creation (God), the ideals of godhood and overtime shall perhaps achieve it.

The Universe is a limitless source of energy therefore there is more out there than is to be known or meant to be known.

Lets leave religion out because then people fight.

And we are not supioer(spelled wrong)
if we did not have guns we would be the weakest link.

Religion has nothing to do with it. If the universe is everything and God (God is a title not a religion) is also everything then the two are completly linked. Heres a bit more science.

The greatest question of all time is that of the pre-big bang. Without that answer we can never truly understand the universe and ourselves. For the past 3 years I have dedicated myself to solving this cosmic mystery.

The first thing I have discovered is the fact that all dimensions fold in upon themselves at a certain point. The higher up the dimensional plane you go the more of the universal creation you reveal. Each D above 5 adds a new layer of universal complexity and after a point you have re-created the entire universe. The problem is that there are an infinite number of D and adding to that there are an infinite number of universes created by the D.

The next thing I found was that the smaller you get the faster things go. Once you have gone lower than the sub-quantum level you begin to see the transition from energy to matter. Matter is created by energy binding to other types of energy forming quantum dots. These dots have specific frequencies, spins, charges and densities. Certain dots have affinities for other types of dots and build upon each other to form sub-quantum particles and eventually atoms. The interesting thing to note is the similarity in behaviour that dots have with quantum particles.

Below the dots level you have infinite streams of energy flowing in an omni-directional and multi-dimensional fabric of space-time. However this fabric does not have a specific space or time. Things as this level move so fast and contain so much energy they destroy themselves and are re-created almost instantly. As one of these quantum bubbles (pre-dot) is created it falls apart due its unstable nature, yet the act of its destruction causes a "wave of continuation" thus allowing the next quantum bubble to be the exact same (plus itself in positive motion) but only a fraction of a second in the future.

In keeping with the sub-quantum it is important to note the nature of measurable time. Time exists in all 3 phases at once at this level. However our perception of the present is actually the past in real time, and what we would see at this level is really our future. With out this complex nature we could not have a positive motion of time, or for that matter motion at all. The entire universe is destroyed and then re-created every 10x-43 of a second yet we only perceive 10x-18 of a second thus creating a time differential as previously alluded to.

The universe exists in a state infinite probability with a plausibility factor of 1:0. This means that while everything can happen the plausibility is only 50% yes (1) and 50% no (0).
With each 1 a universe where 0 occurs is created thus doubling the probability once more. This only happens from the time UT 1+1

Time can be explained thusly:

Universal Time (UT)
UT-0 the moment at the Big Bang
UT- (-2) the moment after the Big Bang
UT-1 the moment at present
UT-1+1 the moment after the present
UT-2 any time in the future

Perceptual Time (PT) is the time we measure in hours, days and so on.
PT (-1) past
PT 0 now
PT 1 the future

The new universes that are created only exist with-in time and not matter. The reason for this is not fully understood.

Because time did not exist before the Big Bang there is no "what happened before the Big Bang?" there is only "what happened pre- Big Bang?" Although the generalities of this are mostly semantic I find that the word "before" causes to much misunderstanding when discussing.

Now that we have a basic understanding of the current universe we can now ask the question "What happened pre-Big Bang?" The answer is nothing. For something to happen time must have been initiated and for time to be the big-bang must have already been. This paradox brings me to the real question, "What outside force acted upon that which was to create that which is?" the answer to that lies at the apex of the dimensional model.

Sorry for all the text but the universe is huge and not just when dealing with size.

I also believe that their has to be more out there then meets the eye. I mean we may be an intelligent species yet I feel that there is something even more superior then we are.

We are not alone in the Universe and anyone who feels we are has their eyes and minds closed.

Just my opinion is all

Im sorry Xzavier religion is one not a good topic for VR post.
And wolfkiller was right your assuming there’s a god and linking the universe to god… god is a phantom of the human brain and linked to religion.

Besides the vast darkness of space and endless possibilities of life and extinction in one fatal asteroid. Or the poles in the sun changing on the year 2012 which I hope doesn’t flip ours if you ever seen magnetic forces at work you will understand. Lol

What I do know is as long as you still experience the stars as something “above your head” you lack the eye of knowledge

There is a simple exercise in logic, where did the big bang come from..a past universe, where did that come from, a past universe and so on. In the end you must have a begining, for nothing continues forever, which means there must have been something to create the incredibly small nature (if you know your physics) of the universe.

The assumption there is no god simply means you think there is no god. The assumption that god is in any way connected to Christianity, Paganism etc. is also a creation of the mind, and nothing more.

I do not want to bring this to a discussion about what is or isnt god so if theres anymore comment about I wont respond for the good of the thread. But to assume there was no begining or to claim that some 5 billion+ people who believe in a god is wrong, simply shows a lack of understanding about the physics of the universe and the philosophy of human behaviour.

I will be more than happy to discuss this in private :)

The Universe is an energy source that produces physical matter and infinate collective knowledge within our reach through our minds

o.k. does anybody think it would be a good idea to actually have an E.T. to just come down to Earth & "talk"?

GirlOfTheValley
You are very much correct.

There is also a strong train of thought which states "Nothing truly exists until it is observed. Therefore it is the human mind which creates the universe." Of course the question then becomes where did we come from..the universe. So it is rather circular in that
"Humans=universe=humans" but there is a good deal of fact with in that philosophy.

about the universe please don’t cramp it with GOD lol

And the old cookies about did the tree make a sound if were not there are so old skool university dope talk with kids repeating a concept beyond there grades trying to sound cool. Lol

One thing for sure we have re created the big bang in a lab… it also made anti matter and ate everything it created … I also understand every time we cant answer with our limited science we wheel in the god card… it insults my intelligence.

The universe is infinate and has other beings in it

Good posts Xavier! I am not going to even attempt to come up with an answer as to what the meaning of the universe is..I mean seriously.O_o But from what Ive learned ,it consists of
normal matter, dark matter and dark energy.

Well to steal the thoughts of Grissom from CSI, gist of it is basically if there any intelligent lifeforms out there, they are intelligent enough to stay away from us.

Now am quoting this and I am a HUGE geek (Star tTrek all the series, Farscape, Stargate, Firefly e.t.c)

I think the worst thing in the world would be if anytime soon we travelled the stars, we can't even relate to each other some times, let alone another race.

I'm taking a course called Life In The Universe... We've been exploring how the universe was formed... Stars and planets and such.

One thing people overlook is the actually SIZE of the universe. Just in our galaxy - The Milky Way - The distance between solar systems is like dust specks with MILES between them. That just OUR GALAXY. The universe is HUGE! It can go on infinidum! There's no way we could know what's really out there...

Also, consider this... Astronomers can see several billion light years away. Light years is the amount of TIME it takes for light to reach us. That means~If we are looking at something a billion light years away, that's the way it looked a BILLION years in the PAST. So we can't tell what's going on in the present for another billion years. For all we know, there could be organisms thriving out there. ~_^

I love this class!!

OK I have to do this...too tired to type.Couldnt even spell Xzavier's name right...sorry guy.besides Im on a vid roll tonite.
Enjoy!

As a member of the Federation of American Scientists and member of the BOD of the Omni Research Group I can say that the big bang we created only involved a few particles, it gave us insight but nowhere near the forces which created this universe. Thus nowhere near the idea about the actual BB.

An interesting note we have a collection of anti-matter (around trillionth of a gram). A hand-full of anti-matter would power the whole of California for a year or so but its costs would consume the whole of the American economy for a century or so.

The creation of the universe I believe can be discovered by the understanding of its current state. By understanding how energy is disperesed and how Space-Time can be warpped we can calculate back to the real beginning, not before, but AT.

Of course the universe is some 156 billion light years accross so understanding the current state will be quite a challange. Even today a news story came out about satellites moving faster than calculated as they reach earth and the sun, and no gravity has nothing to do with this story. It may reveal a new form of dark matter.

One more...promise.

Dark matter is an interesting subject...
We only briefly talked about that in class...

As far as the Big Bang theory goes, astronomers actually hate that term. It was coined by a scientist who didn't believe in the theory, so he called it Big Bang as an insult... The name stuck.

The actual Big Bang is simply the state of the universe before it was formed. Hot, dense gas everywhere!!

All the same, we haven't even scratched the surface to even remotely understand the workings of the universe...

xDeadxRosesx Your absolutly right, unfortunatly the real nature of the big bang isnt as "cool". The real BB was small (smaller than a quark) and quiet as there was no air to create sound.

The whole amount of the energy and matter, dark or otherwise, in the universe is only 9% of the energy released during the BB.
I have theorized that the BB occured over a period of time (about a half second, maybe a bit less). As it shead its DE shell and released the normal energy we see today, it built a lattice-work of energy and matter to allow for the creation of normal matter. This matter then formed waves of gravity, thus giving rise to the arms of galaxies and even played a role in the orbits of planets and smaller bodies.

I have just recently started to study the universe in all its complexities. I am above average in intelligence but lack a basic understanding of things like physics, chemistry ect... I find it all fascinating and can't wait to purchase a good telescope (I'm saving up for one) :) XZavier I was curious do you subscribe to Uell S. Andersons theories I read about in the book "Three Magic Words"?

I havent read his book but I do susbscfribe to the idea that within each of us lies the ability to unleash huge amounts of energy and to have a personal understanding of the universe.

The woman in the 2nd video in this thread echoed my words and the words of many others when she spoke about human thought being part of the creation of the universe. As you go through your studies you will find that the real science lies within the border between physics and Philosophy. Which is why I incorporate "The Philosophy and Nature of the Universe" in nearly every speech, lecture and discussion I have.

"lies within the border between physics and Philosophy. "

I second that motion Xzavier.WEll said.

Astronomers have found that items in space are moving outward as if from an explosion. Hard for our minds to comprehend the immense vastness and so far, never ending universe. It could very well be finite... but so incredibly large, for we feeble humans, would seem never ending indeed.

Wish I could find the math formula for the incredible amount of planets like earth, orbiting a sun like ours, solar systems like ours, galaxies like ours. In other words, there are millions of planets with the same conditions as ours for life out there..too bad they're so far away!

Ops I am tired...

It has been many years since I read the book but its theme was universal consciousness. We are all one connected by this consciousness. The three magic words??? "YOU ARE GOD". Any thoughts?

LumiyaOfTheSith

The universe is only infinite in its finiteness.

Although it seems infinitly large it is in fact extreamly small compared with the entirety of the external universe. The external universe may be considered the universe of all other universes..of which there are many.

As for planets there are about 100,000,000 planets in this galaxy which is large for a galaxy. In total stars, planets and large bodied objects there are aprox. 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 of them in the known universe, thats over 10 tredecillion or 10 trillion trillion trillion trillion :)

I think the universe is a distraction to the universe inside us.
...perhaps there is a pattern set up in the heavens for
one who desires to see it, and having seen it, to find
one in himself – Plato

lavisbre - Truer words have never been said. Both figurativly and literally the universe inside us is so similar to the universe of stars and both are remarkably interconnected.

Within us we find the ability to call into being the physical universe yet without understanding the nature of things we cannot understand what we do on a daily basis.

Its interesting to note that one of the reasons we look out at the sky is because we simply find it to hard to fathom our own selves.

Of course this shouldnt stop us from gazing up, its to perfect not to.

True As long as you still experience the stars as something above the head you lack the eye of knowledge - Fredrick Nietzsche

Yes but if there is nothing above us then there is nothing below, and if theres nothing below then we have nothing to reach above for.

In all actuallity the truth of the universe does in part lie within us but we are only a part of the universe and not all of it. Although I find the fact that observation creates matter it doesnt negate the fact that the universe existed before we did and thus we only have a part to play.
To think anymore of ourselves is highly arrogant and some what ignorant, I am guilty of that at times.

Really Xzavier

Excuse me if I sound crass

Is this real, are we gods having a human experience.
I never said there is nothing above us … ?
I never said part of the universe lies in us ?
Nothing ignorant with understanding were more than were told for those who don’t will look in the sky at the stars with amazement and innocence trying to fathom it with infinitive numbers to large for any mind to truly understand and be of any concern to the spiritual development of the human being?

You do know this is a paranormal occult site and not cut n past science weekly?

I am highly aware of the nature of this site. As for the copy/paste they are my own papers and pertain to the nature of this post. There have been many threads dealing with scientific subjects from evolution, to matter/energy and so on.

I ment nothing insulting or demeaning, the "god insulting you intelligence" comment I found was.

At any rate I have simply been continuing on the posts that have been made here and adding my own opinions and facts that I know which may add to the discussion. Again I have no intention of this thread being a part of some philisophical debate which is why I have continued adding fact to the small bits of philosophy I may have written.

If you or anyone else would like to discuss, debate or argue with me about anything then please do so via messaging.

Lol don’t be so serious Xzavier

I find your post extremely informative and not cut n paste I think that was me being crass lol

I would like to see it pull out of a nose dive with science and a matter of fact based on a science that is still theories and concepts till we get out n about in it.

Till then I just tried to bring it around to a more paranormal debate …..

Sorry I know I can be rather "tight". Anyway thank you and if you wanna be paranormal I think I can put the text books away :)

So tell me your view on god … I see god as an alien who had watchers on this planet and they mated and corrupted the human gene with clone adam and so forth…. Crass I know lol
You were saying as part of your theories and the basic pivot god is infinite and there for the universe is his body parts.
Please how can he be infinite what do you have that proves this ? I don’t see him in earth I don’t see him in the moon I don’t see him … it has been shown VMAT2 in our genes makes you feel god those with out don’t suffer this phantom so I offer more ground to whats inside is everything

My view is that there are 2 types of god. Gods (g) are beings such as aliens and so forth that we may have perecieved as gods and other forms of energy/life that are superior to us. And then you have God (G) which is the ultimate and infinite of all things. Not bound to religion but can be a personal God and we can have a relationship with him/she..really its just God no sex.

God (G) is an important part of my theories but it in it's form exists outside the known universe. However the universe is a part of it but is not it, just as we are part of God but not God. We may be gods to another life form..you get the idea.

Genetics have shown that we need the idea of a god but it has also shown our cells are receptive to an outside force, beyond the physical relm. There must be a God for everything points up, diminsional mathematics, physics and so on. Plus we exist so we must have come somewhere. You could make the point that we may exist in some little marble of an alien race but then where do they come from?

There is little doubt in my mind that there is this highest of beings. If people want to attach a religion to it or simply a faith then I see little harm in it as long as they dont force their ideas on other people. Just for the record I am an ordained minister as well, but I recognize that people have a right to turly believe what ever they want the only absolut truth is that which can be proven absolutly, aka science.

I want to believe that there is more out there then we know so many things that cant be explained so much stuff going on out there that we dont know about.

Interesting … I get the part that your concept of GOD is not based on religion, yet not all religions say god is infinite, only a couple so im guessing Christian. lol
Who said God was a superior form? No one has seen this being, God reminds me of the wizard of Oz in so many ways.
i read in the bible he has trouble with metal on the chariots… must dig that one up
you say two gods one alien and one phantom… surly for you it’s just one?

Ok … so now your telling me god is outside the known universe… then it’s not everywhere? Just outside normal reality… you might need to explain that to me more.
Looks like moving the goal post to get a point across that one cant, ever if you could we would all have one proven god and religion

Genetic have only show those who believe in god have a gene others who don’t do not… it would be possible to breed god out if one was evil enough to kill those who believe or those who don’t… *smiles*
This however does not mean we need it or the gene is anything more than an alien infusion to divide and conquer … oldest trick good v bad red v blue angel v demon coke v Pepsi religion v religion ….

I guessed you are a minister as you belief in God shows strong in this theory …

The concept of God not god is almost always infinite, Christianity, Islam, Hindu and so forth. They may not all use the same language but the idea's are the same.

By definition God must be superior. If he is not then we are and that is arrogant, ignorant the usual rant lol.

God in its entirety is outside the known universe but parts of it are the known universe, thus inside. Its dificult to explain with the written word, I asure you nearly everyone I have spoken to has been able to understand the idea. Perhaps I should write a small paper on the idea to get it accross better than I am doing.

It is the idea that there are limits and the God fits in a box that is flawed and why I have been kicked out of my fair share of churches. The only true box that God can be placed in is the infinite of infinites, being that our perception of the inifite is finite thus infinity is very small.

We have shown that cells respond to a force beyond our control or understanding, a God force perhaps. Even though you smirk it shows that you have a disagreement with the idea of a God or at least perhaps those who believe. My question is what is so wrong with it? For that matter if only believers have such a gene that could be bread out then whats keeping us from breeding out gays (I am), or brown haired people and so on?

As for being a minister I am also a physicist, political activist, archit. drafter, frm. actor, author, federal contractor and constitutional law expert :)

Belief has little to do with anything when science backs it up.

they say it is endless well everything has to end somewhere me i think the universe is constantly growing and shifting so that we will never know what is out there

yes i think it is alot more in the universe then meet the eye. For me the universe is endless and i think it also exist life on other planets.

Ow yeah, thers shit loads more than it meets the eye, or some super sofisticated sensor scanners, if only one would follow the laws of the universe in proper conduct, right evolution of the soul would be much faster avalible, and with that reach the "invisible"

Xzavier,

Thank you for some excellent posts and I congratulate you on your debating skill.

Despite several unsuccessful attempts by others to drag your very well intentioned, and informative posts, into a circular reasoning argument, you have shown extreme patience and politeness in holding to your valid position here.

I hope that this thread will stay focused on the concept of 'What is the Universe?' and try to avoid going off into more petty sniping.

This forum has a wide ranging scope for topical discussion and this is certainly on the better side of those.

In as far as I can respond to your first post here, I'd like to pick up on the idea of a thought creating the universe.

By the meaning I interpret from your points, I assume that you hold to the idea that the universe is redefined by every interaction of perception?

Is it then the case that in every moment, the universe is being destroyed, observed and thus, instantaneously recreated once again, but with a new set of perceptions?

Another question, since you provoke so many, is how would you describe the transfer of information between subatomic fields?

My current theory to hold to, is in photoelectric interactions within the field, where the photon changes the nature of the locally present particles, before itself being provided with a new set of information, which it then carries to the next field for a new interaction.

The problem here is where does the information discarded from the photon go to, once it has completed the transaction with the particles, with this conundrum being Einstein's only self-perceived failure to solve.

Another problem I have, is with the Higgs Boson. This mysterious particle is accused of being responsible for creating an entirely level playing field for all particles (ha ha), yet has so far eluded detection by direct observation.

This idea for me, is based on too much of an assumption that it must exist, simply because if it didn't, then everything would unravel, no particle would have a determinable mass and the universe would cease to exist.

So what alternatives are there to this idea?

Would you consider a theory of a non-observable phenomena existing at a sub-atomic level?

Could that phenomena be responsible for the the missing information?

If so, what other objects in the universe are capable of providing these two curious traits?

I look forward with great anticipation to your response.

STABB

I Believe that When people use the word GOD it does not always mean Religion yet as was said the meaning of a Godly Superior being or person. I really enjoyed reading all the post and debates in here they have peeked my interest in a few things

Thanks Rhonda

I see the universe as a vast abys that we have not discovered yet. Not to say thsat were the only ones here but that the human race has only phisicaly discovered any more of the universe than what you can see with a three hundred dollar telescope, so there could be alot more to the universe that we don't know about yet.

Perhaps Stabb you are hoping that Stephen Hawking may come by! His lectures on his website may be of great interest to you :)

I like the theory that the Universe in continually expanding but that one day it could contract and come back on itself. A bit like a rubber band...

Stabb666 if I may is the phenomona you are talking about the big bang?

If so then yes it naturally possible that this could be true because all things even if they are beyond human comprehension are still possible.

But we as a whole meaning the human race will never know because our technology and foresight for such a matter lack enough wisdom.

I say this because if we had enough then xaiver would not have to make all his posts trying to concieve to us on this subject.

Our minds are just to small to comprehend it so therefore that is why everybody has tryed for to turn this into a debate.

I am unfortuately the oringator of this debate so therefore I apologize for the incovenience I have caused everbody.

But this is my opinion until we farther our science & knowledge of the universe we can not possibly come up with a accurate and informative answer.

As to the posts I thank you Xzavier,lavisbre and stabb666 for the wonderful questions and information.

As provided as they have increased my knowledge albeit if not a lot a considerable more then what it was at.

wolfkiller,

No, since I don't agree with the 'big bang', but in an infinite looping cycle.

Yin Yang- forever flowing, always changing, never ending and beginning with a thought from 'god'.

God being a self-observed interpretation of the universe, embodied in a personification so that the mind can more easily comprehend the nature of this reality.

So basically you agree to what I said to a certain degree.

And yes that is the truth the human race has always made something more smaller than what it is so we can comprehend it.

All so I believe to that we will never truly understand this for the important reason we would probably try to eradicate them.

We try to take over because we can't surpass our own narrow-minds to believe and let something different exist.

Now if I may what causes you dis-belief on the big bang theory?

I think I would be safe in sayiong that this has to be one of the most mind boggling question man has ever asked himself.I have watched this thread all night,and I need to say,it contains some of the best posting I have seen here to date.I will not put my own opinion as to what I fully believe,because frankly,its been said by others much better than I ever could.
I will say this however,while I might not agree completetely with everything in a paticular post,they have all stoked the fires of my mind.
And Stabb666,your comment,"God being a self-observed interpretation of the universe, embodied in a personification so that the mind can more easily comprehend the nature of this reality"

What truer words could be said.
My hat goes off to you guys..Thank you for a great thread.

The big bang was a given point of creation before that nothing. From nothing came everything. Some believe a big bang or explosion. And the universe as we know developed in the swirl… limited knowledge of space we assume it works like on earth so all explosions reach a point like an elastic band and contract laws of physics that are limited to start with.

The beauty of science is you get an idea and then try to disprove it as long as you don’t wheel in the GOD card which places a spanner in anyone’s line of thinking in my view it’s a whiled card that limit’s ones research as it in itself is un proven super trump card.

So far all the theories on signs of a big bang are proving wrong with radiation levels not as they should and whole galaxies farther out from the center younger and older… quasar issues being brighter from point zero … its endless the data disproving.
So we enter the red shift theories a Doppler stretch of photons … then it gets real technical guys……. Basically the big bang if it did happen happened longer ago than we thought a “new principle of nature” the Compton effect.

Quantum mechanics now start to come into play it looks more dimensional than anything else.
And before you place a GOD card in the other dimension we in one of them are we GODs to them as some might suggest…? I don’t remember creating everything .. do you?
And I bet those on the other side didn’t ether.
You can find communication with them in all shamanic work the serpent that gives medical and knowledge to the shaman.
The astral feel and echo’s from wise beings… not gods…

When people say theres nothing out there technicly thats not true there is no such thing as nothing there is always something there, weather it be a partical or and atom, i believe there is something out there, ,aybe another planet such as ours with breathable air, my mum belives we come from a distant planet and continue to move, we use up the reasources on one and find another, but there is most deffinatly someone or something else out there in another solorsystem or parallel universe.

If you are talking about consiousness creating the Universe through our minds, I see where the logic may lie. But to put a long story completely short, are we talking in retrospect about the human mind creating the Universe, or are we talking about substantiated evidence that there is an omniverse with a Universal energy that is apparent according to the Light and Dark matters of which the Universe is made of? Scientific or Spiritual?

This debate could be intune with one or both, depending on ones perspective. As there are multiple Universes, which make up the Omniverse, then we would need to justify our intent as to why we deem it nessessary to create this energy present known as the "big Bang" in our eyes.

I would concentrate more as to why we call forth the obligation to discuss all Universe combined. I have read Hawking as well. If one is to concentrate on his equations, then to halfway understand his logic and reasonings behind most of his speculations is to find a worthy opponent in a game of chess.

To my eyes, the "big bang theory" has nothing to do with the Universe unless one is wishing to create an excuse on a religious level. As religion has nothing to do with Universal discussion, let us keep it out, and instead concentrate on the manifesto of the Omniverse.

That all being said, let us continue...

The ever expanding Universe, which the dark matter is apart of, that which makes up the darkness of space...Is always growing.

Now, if the universe is within us, theoretically this would make us as "god" in our own right. The surpeme beings of the universe. But, we need to recognize the fact that it is completely selfish to walk down this road. We did not create the universe. It is simply a philosophical viewpoint to better our minds in general.

This then, we are not talking about universal conscience, we are talking about the Outerspace rather than the Innerspace. Which again are we discussing, spiritual endevour or scientific calculation? Even though both tie to one another accordingly, we cannot assume so.

It seems to me, we are missing a rather big scenerio here. Mixing and combining spiritual concepts and the universe is always apparent. Instead let us concentrate on a differant aspect, what is on the other side of the Universe, where is the flow continuing to...Like that of a rip tide. A white water rafting trip. It began, it must be going somewhere.

My point being, why must we always cross reference the universe with religious view? We as universal energy should be beyond this point. We just use this excuse to make a betterment of ourselves in the long run. But, do we really need the universe to bring us this?

As we are already apart of the Universe, this is a hereditary trade, not a learning stone. We just need to realize this and be done with it for newer understandings to be brought to light.

Once more, are we speaking here about spiritual universe, or physical universe? I leave you to your thoughts.

STABB- I thank you for your support and your questions show you have an understanding of the universe that is still yet to take fire in the scientific community.
But before I answer your questions let me direct a response to Lav.

Lav - Everything came from the BB however at the same time everything already existed as an energy form of the unified theories of energy/matter/space. Thus we have been in existence for an undetermined period of time. We speak of a God because there was obviously something before the universe that created the energy held with in quark like structure.
God exists in this diminsion because it flows from it at the same time God also exists in every other diminsion because they also flow from God. However God in its entirety exists beyond our plane of perception just like the apex of the diminsional model. I'm not sure I can explain it any better than that. God is not limited to our relm yet, is our relm. I've repeated this several times.
On a special note scientists have taken the habbit of using the word "creation" instead of BB or formation, "creation" is the call sign of creationists and those who think that something outside the universe made it.

Now on to STABB.

Yes I hold to the fact that the universe is redefined by each observation. However there is also a relativly firm idea that the universe itself was created by thought, both the thought of God and the thought of man. Because "Without thought/perception there is nothing that can be observed and without observation nothing truly exists." I am not convinced of this...yet.

The transfer of informtion is both photoelectric and by the "wave of continuation", the phrase wont be in the scientific community for a bit longer.
Photoelectric because photons interact w particles similar to mass and size as the photon and thus as it is absorbed the energy transfers to it via regular energy dispersion.

The wave of continuation happens at a sub-quantum level. As the universe and particles are destroyed the information is let loose into universe in the same direction and with the same information but at a new velocity and newer instructions from the new particles made from dots. Think of it like a continuous explosion with each bit of debris blowing up as well. These bits explode and send their future direction out in a wave of energy however with the universe there is a constant and limitless amount of energy to carry on the will of the bit of matter. The tricky thing is when you visualize this dont think about the force and mannerisms of an explosion think of it simply fading out of existance and giving off its information. The new information is picked up by the new particles being created from the dots (i mentioned these in an earlier post). These dots know what to make due to the nature of time, past, present and future existing at the same time at that level.

Because time works a little differently on that scale by the time we observe something it has already been destroyed and remade with the new set of directions. We just havent seen it yet.

The Higgs Boson is an idiotic idea for the very reasons you state. But also because bosons are made up of energy fields and dots. I use the actual word "dot" because their size is so small and only exists within the border between 2 and 3 dimin. they are more like a dot on paper than a 3d particle. Plus I do not think that a single particle can create everything else. Dots are made via a limitless amount of energy "zero-point" and by "zero-point fields" as well as other energy fields comming together. A dot can be anything, a boson can only be a boson, if you get what I mean.

As for a non-observable phenomena. Being that all things are possible, maybe. But even if you cant observe it directly you should be able to observe its actions, indirectly and be able to prove it mathematiclly.
Dots, zero-point... can be proven with math (of course everything you could think of can as well) but can also be observed by indirect means. You can see the of shots of energy and the "random" path of quantum particles. We may not yet be able to see dots (theyre smaller than bosons) but in time we shall see evidence of them.
Remember it took almost a yr. to "catch" a neutrino with thousands of detectors. The reason why that is remarkable is because billions hit every sq. cm. every second! lol

The universe is extreamly large, even its 156billion ly observable size may technically only be a small portion of the real universe. Even now we find phenomena around earth itself affecting the speed of satellites. Although we like to think our methods are amazing and our science is "great" we really have no clue whats going on. Remember we disprove and/or "correct" ourselves every few decades. Of all the science of all the world only a portion has been declared "laws" or "total fact"

I hope this helps

Well the word god is sort of erroneous to use and most of what I have read is rehashed metaphysics that have been written about in many books but I commend you for your research...I hope for your success. I think the problem with humans being confronted by another type of civilization in a nutsell will be FEAR and with fear comes violence.

Sevenn that was my point just because something hasnt been observed doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

I have not dismissed bosons only the Higgs Boson as a base particle. As for mass and size I was simply using bosons as an example of non-atomic masses.

As for the Higgs Boson its mass would be around 117 GeV (depending on study) which is larger than many known elementary particles. There still may be a Higgs Boson but its role in physics as any form of "base (even "god") particle" is wrong.

i think the meaning of the universe is there is no meaning at all.
its rando, chaotic, any moment a near earth object could obliterate our planets life...
so yeah...

Also, meaning is generally a human concept, though I wouldn't be surprised if a slug wondered about the meaning of going from one place to another while leaving a small slimy trail.

I don't think there has to be meaning to anything for it to just...Exist and be something. The universe just is.

Acutally stabb666 I did start it because i messaged lavisbre and asked to post his opinion which therefore progressed the debate.

And yes you did agree to a certain point you said that yourself.

Now you have your science people which are soulshroude,me and lavisbre then you have the scientific people which are you,xzavier and sevenn.

That is in this case why we can't come to a agreement as to how the universe began or even was created.

As to your previous post that did answer my question I knew you answered it but did not quite understand so i was asking for a better answer.

And from the posts we have seen in this debate as it turns out will always been in some degree a fight to win over the individual opinion.

But seeing as we have the brillant minds that we have in this posting we will never accomplish this because each of us has our own intelligence to continue to debate.

Now as to you Stabb666 I am only stating the obvious in bland langauge so everybody will understand.

Whereas everybody who does not have some degree of intelligence cannot understand what you and the others have said that is why it is only us few mainly posting.

And all so therefore this post has become highly irrelevant as you have posted your meaning as the otehrs have and there is still disagreement.

Why would it get deleted,it is a valid concept M.At least I hope not,it would be a crying shame. No,you are correct,no one knows what it all really is,but when it can be dissussed in a way as a few of the posters have done in this thread,well,to me there is much more carried away from here.Such is the Universe and the mind of man.

Now scientifically speaking according to what we know and as xzavier hasv pointed out we started by the Big Bang theory.

here is a few sites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universe
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/hawking/html/home.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/universe/

Now I ask that you browse these sites and see if it brings anything to your attention and maybe solve the quarrels we are having.

And as to Stabb666 maybe you would be so generous to message me and allow me to do the same.

So you might be able to help a younger person and pass on some knowledge so I will better understand?

i've always thought that everything that was measured was measured in a way to make it pleasing and understood to us "humans". ever see Planet of the Apes? those (apes) had their whole existence carefully explained, as to not give fear and rise to the thoughts that there had been others (humans) with vastly advanced Civilizations before them (the apes).

i believe that we havefound things that have given evidence to the existence of other life forms ion the universe, but our HUBRIS has kept those things concealed and in little government file cabinets.

so, the concept of the universe per se is as what we have been "told" it is, sadly, by the goons in charge.

hi; once we adapt better levels of Space Travel, we'll have our own Star Trek Experience...


to boldly go, blah blah blah.

I understand what you say about physics but then again science was never really my ace subject but history was.

Now if I may I am going to apply a little history to this I understand that it is science and I am glad you enjoyed it as to the others.

But if the BB theory truley and acutually happened then why is it we have no confirmation all we have are a few renown scientists words.

I mean there words could be a lie just like evrything else do not forget that many will lie for ones own personal gain.

And all so the as to the earth we have no real proof how it came to be rhose millions of years ago.

We can guess and use our minds to make assumptions but that does not nesscarily mean it is true now does it.

And if you want to xzavier I offered it to Stabb666 but if you can educate me behind your logic thru some messaging.

Then maybe I will be able to better my understanding and be able to grasp the idea.

I think the Universe is to vast and unexplored for us to think we are the only one's here. Maybe one day we'll get to meet the other lifeforces..I just hope they are friendly.

I think the universe is in constant expension and growth. Never ending expending

(In all future post resonses Wolfkiller, in all due respect, please speak for yourself when communicating group scenerios regarding other users aside yourself. Since I am always just watching neither scientist, nor peanut gallery.)

I like the way morrigan thinks, she makes very good clarity regarding the universe and its masses. She makes me giggle incoherently. As her point is very well put.

No matter where the discussion begins, or ends, we will always be the little ants roaming around this universe carrying on wondering about the tiniest details spinning in our heads. Yes, this has everything to do with the universe.

As thought consciousness is universal in its own way, one needs to include this detail while winking at the universe itself. If we are manifesto of universe, either as a group or individually, then this would be where our thoughts are responsible for calculated coordination.

Trying not to confuse the lot of you or myself, so I will put it in understandable words...Our thoughts are like that of water, manipulating the ripples of the tide inside the universe, thus brings the universal consciousness. Band waves or whathaveyou, our energies are calculated by this. Though my speculative words are yet to be proven, this is my view.

I will say one more thing I am scared for the human race as we expand in the universe.

why would u be scared?

i believe it's just as they tought us in school. what else could it be. i remember describing this in a forum a couple days ago. i believe that all of life started out from an atom exploding, and it's still expanding to this day, creating all sorts of other things like our planets, suns, and galaxies. there are who knows how many solar systems in who knows how many galaxies in this never ending existance. there are other beings of life, that's a guarantee.

Not taking it off subject but the reason I would be scared is because in our own pride and immortality as these are the keys which drive us most will be our downfall.

I all so want to state one more opinion I am glad to have taken part in this post and have learned a lot.

A special thanks needs to be contributed to lavisbre,soulshroude,Stabb666 and xzavier because they are the ones who put the inquistive and information on here.

For without them the post would have been a ramble and not solved.

I wish the person who would talk to me speak as I have changed since I first started on here and even changed my profile.

A constant expension a growing path, or energy releasing space...

to answer the actual post... there is always more to what the actual eye sees and than some. Thanks to satelites we can see beyond our eyes.

even with the satelits we only can see a very little part of the universe.

lets look at black holes the constantly suck in the universe causing it to change since it is always changing and endless there has to be more than meets the eye

the question is a little vague.

comparable to what is the answer to life, the universe and everything?

parallel universes may exist basing that on the theory that there is a space fabric connecting closely everything. something over here effecting something way overe there because they are very much the same thing. everything was pooped out together and share a symbiotic sort of likeness.

Douglas Adams has a hilarious notion that once we have it figured out for sure the universe will disappear and something way more mysterious will take its place. he said this has already happened once.

really? when?

I think the universe is in many dimensions and planes that we can't see. it would probaby be a mind blowing thing to really know just how endless it is.

yeah it would, i wonder if we'll ever become advanced enough to go inbetween this dimentions though.

Just an incidental tuppence worth..

The idea of thought to create our perception of the universe was also breached and explained in J.R.R Tolkien's The Silmarillion ...

SO THERE ... lol

In my opinion the meaning of the universe boils down to something very simple......the number 2.

Problem is, if the meaning of the universe boils down to a number, then exactly what could the question be?

Mener

This thread has been automatically closed for length.