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Immortality through Memory. If the only objective of past races was to be remembered "forever"/into the future, many succeeded. Mortal Man Merged with myth (The Titans). Everybody in the current known world may have heard of King Tut. Infamy and Fame are two factors of Memorial immortality, what others could there be?

I think imortality for the select few is quite right through memories. For these individuals becoame infamous through our liture and the actions of them. whether king tut, kennedy or einstein. normal people that made it into history books and now will live beyond the work and us. actions deeds all fall into this even surcumstances that they had no control with, like murder. sad yet the truth.

Victims become immortal, but for some reason serial killers are better known then their victims. Notorious wins over victimization?

Polly Klass, a name synonymous with Americas child.

Thinking on an example for love immortalizing some one, and The Taj Mahal comes to mind, was it not constructed as a memorial to a wife?

People that cause mass change in their current times usually become immortal through memory/stories..

Those that gained immortality through the oral traditions, those are the iconic immortal. I wonder if such things would be possible today, Urban legends are fiction, and some are approaching iconic status, if not literary immortality. Could a person today stand a chance with out a written medium?

I believe it is possible to become immortal today via literature and by mouth, but I think you have to do something or inspire something truly great and cause a change around the world.

Some get famous due to urban legend. Look at Lizzie Borden...she was acquitted and she appears in murder lists and she was never convicted of any murder.

Look at Erzebet Bathory...everyone says she drank blood and bathed in it but it started when someone wrote that long after her death in his book. It was never in any court transcripts or came from anyone in or around the happening...she was a serial murderer and got pleasure out of torturing young girls.

there are many like that and they do end up the infamous in history even if it isn't deserved or it is a tad overblown in its nature; in other words embellished upon over time.

"Words. Although they are only breath, words which I command are Immortal." -Sappho

Immortality through Art - The memory is preserved by being able to periodically revisit known pieces.

Especial if the Artist had an eccentric behavior. Some of the "worst" iconic art only made it to the masters level because of the Artist reputation as a character.

Then there are the 'small' acts which can also be counted as living on through generations.

When I was a child, my Mother told me how when she was nursing my Grandmother in her final days how suddensly she noticed Gran was crying.

"Oh I'm sorry, did I hurt you ?" Mother said. "Only with kindness" said Gran.

This brief exchange has been passed down through the family, the memory of a kindness given and much appreciated lives on.

In short term memory it falls to those who knew the person for the general population. It doesn't have to be either infamy or fame but kindness and a gentle smile.

Of course from where I sit immortality through memory can only come via infamy or fame, with perhaps, a bit of help from the human tongue. No one believes that an arrow through the heel killed Achilles but he was during his day both famous and infamous depending on which side of the battle field you were on. A lot rides on how well the real story of your life can be turned into a passion of either love or hate.

Sure, there are people who have 'old souls.' What's to say that those supposed old souls are just people who have retained their knowledge between lifetimes? This is assuming, of course, that there is spiritual rebirth.

There could be love, or a sense that they have a purpose in every life they serve. Maybe they are a doctor, proficient in that time period, remembering the mistakes of the past and learning from them, making technical advances.

But I think I'm shying away from the topic, so I'll post now. :)

Past lives aside, I'd say Love, Hate, Fear, and Desire, the strongest emotions, can keep a person's memory alive for an incredibly long time if any or all are attached to their memory. I'd elaborate, but I'm not thinking too well at the moment.

As long as there are people around to remind us of things, memories and or people, immortality will always be known.

So if the enemy admired the warrior, and embellished the warrior might (to avoid embarrassing slaughters from being just average losses) the enemy embelished the might of his opponent.. that is one "pillar" to immortality, the second is the victor warriors people making the warrior a folk legend , even the working class had such a heroe John Henry, Paul Bunnon..

I believe that one can become immortal through literature, art or even politicians. Some of the classical musicians like Bach, Chopin and Mozart are immortal through memory due to their musical talents.

Ahh yes, I forgot the power of immortality through one's creations. Moonlight Sonata, for example, will keep Beethoven's memory alive as long as it is played by someone, somewhere.

My props go to those that imprinted their memory into oral traditions, and then when it carried to the written world.. that is impressive.

Immortality through rememberance is the only way anyone will become immortal. As long as people remember you you cannot die. That is, your body will die, your soul [if it exists] will pass on, but you will still be around in memory.

So what factors keep a person from becoming a simple historic foot note, to becoming a historic/folk icon? To be mentioned in a book about yourself? or to be mentioned in books about someone else?

There are some good answers here in this post.

Personally I would want to be remembered for who I was rather than misinformation.

Or have something to gain by altering your memory. However slight that may be done.

I guess the ones who believed those lies would not be able to say that they truly knew you and are going with second hand knowledge but there will be those who know you for who you truly are and remember you as you would want them to.

There are people that are fighting for the memory of their loved ones to be restored from those that taint memory for gain. Usually it has a base in an organization.

I do believe that matter is always mortal turning itsproperty into other and the soul the supreme self is immortal which choose the birth after death as per its choice

and this topic i am agree with Honorable Dabbler's start post logically. yet did not read whole thread I will very soon.

Hmmm remembered accurately or inaccurately... I suppose for me it would depend on the result of that rememberence. If remembering me innacurately brought about some kind of greater good than that is fine. If the memory was distorted for the benifit of selfish goals and agendas, I'd have to see if I could figure out a way to come back and haunt someone.

Immortality can be achieved through your children as well I believe.At least genetically.

good point Oceanne, a couple good points in the last two post.

Children inheirite the memory, and some times even royalties.. supporting existing memories with either accuracy, or a version suitable to their purpose. One example Jude Lennon.

yet after years the blood line forgets you and so immortality would be lost. books or text or doing something that would put you into the history is probably the biggest thing. from killers to wars, history has been taught to us on the aspects of history repeats itself. huh

Throughout the thread I was thinking one thing, family. Your own children and their children, etc...

I was also thinking that there are bound to be inaccuracies in an oral history as well as, to a lesser degree, written accounts. I think that the inaccuracies of memory would be especially frequent in an oral history. For the most part, no one goes out of their way to remember the unpleasant moments of someone's life. When was the last time you were at a funeral and several people were there just to make sure the bastard was actually dead? Nope, everyone is usually remembering good times and good qualities of that bastard that died. Although being remembered by family and loved ones may provide a measure of immortality, I doubt that completeness or accuracy of said immortality would be retained.

Well last week, I was. but to know only certain thoughts is not immortalizing them, for as the childrens children grow the memories will be lost photos of what once was. How many have looked over your grandparents photos and asked whos this, uuuuugh a couisin i think?

lost memories and lost identies. works in books or commitments in life may help with this.

This may be a selfish view but I don't think it would make a bit of difference if I'm remembered accurately or not. Do the views of others take away from my experiences or change the person that I was during my time here? However, I could see how down the road an inaccurate memory of me could adversely affect future family generations.

But to be remembered is the key, and not to be lost to the unknown. whether its your actions events but at least be remembered.

Historical figures, more bad than good, tend to be immortalized. The hope is, that through the remembering of their deed(s), we will never allow a repeat of their actions/attrocities (i.e. Ivan the Terrible, Stalin, Hitler).

But, then there are also the good (Neil Armstrong, John Glenn, Russian Cosmonauts, etc.). The hope that they will inspire us to greater achievement in the exploration of Space.

Leo

In my opinion, thoughts keep the person/s immortal, words, literature, art, etc...are those that make them more famous but as long as thoughts are there they remain immortal.

Sometime immortality can turn against the one that started the myth.
Let`s take Vlad Dracula for example.
I think immortality has a price and the vampire myth is illustrating it in a marvelous way!

with every desicion there lies a price, yet fame and rememberance is a dream or strive of most people, they want to leave something behind when they die. for they will be remembered.

So is it possible to usurp the memory of another, to advance an illusion of grander? A few people have high jacked the royalties of music legends, could that be an example of usurping immortality?

other than memory immortality i feel that past life experiences bring about a sense of immortality which is possibly why so many believe in actual immortality

But it seems more and more each day the immortality of ones life is only those who are hitting the newspapers and tv now. Unlike the past where more of the good individuals and their accomplishments were being written.

So is collective Memory, stronger then Personal Memory. Media is a 15 min entity, it can only create a window to magnify the charisma already present. A philantropist, could be said to benift more from a TV appearance then an average citizen.

But media preserves the person, wether in a book or media or history, for out the written language we would have no recollection of anyone from the early years, they would all be considered myth on the basis there is no proof. so Now we can remember them and what they had accomplished or done.

Media is also a degree of distortion. Much more then oral recollection. Look at how Stories, and Tales last, and are adopted, and Glossed. A persons history is just as prone to such things.

True dabbler,

I would say that happened alot in the early times, without media or written books so promident now. but like most everything, media is still subject to the views of the individual writting them or photgraphing them

maybe we can survive death as a download? if our memories and thoughts could be saved to a memory storage device, then possibly uploaded into the minds of others, that would be imortality.

Now that would b a great break through in science, instead of learning we could just insert a chip and now we know quantum physics. hmmmmm, (matrix)

But it would preserve immortality on the basics of who the program was about. Still like idea.*goes to lab to create chip*

*Double Take* Well stated Karn',

Cadre,

Part of a legend is in the "liberal accounts" of a persons history.
Paul Bunyun, is not a single man, nether is Tom Henry, they both capture a trade, Lumberjacks (before automation), and rail/tunnel gangs. So some flair adds to endurance. A good example perhaps is Staggard Lee, and the Song. " Stagger Lee Was A bad Bad man.. Oh Staggard Lee.."

What dabbler, whats with the double take. another logical person on the scene.

Understanble Dabb, but only through the media on all levels are we preserved in memory. Think of your town in the 1400,s who lived at your erea. don't know only if written language was made of that person.

Only selective individual get this luxury. presidents, mass murders. people in war time counts. etc. not "plumber Joe"

Karn' Stated that in Download we can accieve an immortal existance, I have actual evidence of a Teen that has Immortality through her friends online, though I am hushed to secrecy.

So there is a filter, how many degrees of support one has, reflects upon how much promotion one does (or others do in ones name) in those mediums. Writing (Biographies, Fictional Characters based on your person), Screen Media, and Oral (word of mouth), A sensational death/mysterious death all factors into the equation as well (Elvis).

well know people through this media exchange on all levels. understandable.

yet the common person, who does not dwell on the internet or has had a blog in the paper will never achieve immortality. for their name will be lost to history and only memories or a picture from a family scrap book.

So the difference between assumed preservation, and actual preservation are to be considered. If the tools (the Media, the Inter net) are used only for added promotion, and not the foundation for a persons "bid" at Immortality.

Thank you you helped me polish that for summary.