The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

Do you think it is possible to be wiccan and christian?
I have heard of others who are both, but can you really do that?
And how could you do it?

Lets not do any criticizing of religions, or any thing else.

i've seen it work for some people.

they find a common ground on the two faiths and work with it.
how they do it in detail, that i don't know. but i know a handful of people that have been doing it for 20+ years.

i have seen this as well.I had a friend online,
she was both..and i asked her how thats possbile.
This is what she told me.
'''People can choose to who they believe in,
not all believe excatly what on god really thinks or
does.what we do was never evil in anyway,
and i believe love can come from the god who once
did magical things once as well.'''
thats what she said.

dosen't mean i changed my mind..into thinking that
it's still just plain wierd.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcr5.htm

Here is a fascinating page on being wiccan and christian. It brings up the fact too, that some people feel it's wrong to be christian and like vampires. How can a person love God and be a witch and how can a person love God and love vampires...?? It's what's in your heart..... and how you live your life. Live by example.

I certainly believe it is possible to be a witch and a christion and I know VERY WELL someone who follows this path. Whhether ir not you can be "Wiccan", which is a specific witchcraft based religion and a christian, I am not sure.

It might not be possible to follow all of the precepts of a given formal christian denomination, but believing in the Holy Trinity does not mean you can't also practice witchcraft. Likewise I am not sure if the Wiccan faith has precepts which are at odds with the belief in Christ, but from what I've seen, it does not.

Wow, this is such a stereotypical thread...

Of course its possible. Too each their own on relative religious theories of persecution. The individual does not have to have just one religion in order to live their lives. After all, is this not what philosophy and theology is all about?

Come on people? Lets have some better threads to work with, or state the discussion better...

You can not be a witch and a christian at the same time, anyone who say's they are both has a really big problem or they do not know what they are talking about.

If you read the bible their are ten commandments that Christians are supposed to follow and not break, in wicca the only rule is "If it harm none do what thou wilt" wiccans break a lot of the commandments and their is no way a wiccan can go home practice wicca then the next sunday go to church and sit their and pretend that they are following god's rules it is not possible.

Also wicca and witchcraft is 2 totally different things wicca is a modern religion watered down with a bunch of other religions and witchcraft is just that a craft that has been around for a very very very long time.

Their is even a passage in the bible that say's "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" right their show what god thinks of people who practices witchcraft and since wiccans practice a watered down version of witchcraft they are included with that passage.

It is possible if you want to make it possible, just look briefly at the theosophical inclination, those who seek refuge in that specific philosophy- embrace all the other religions and doctrines as a one mechanization to collectively enlighten groups, not focusing in any singularities or fundamentalist in any case.

All in all what it should be accepted in each is love- and believing is the only truth and others are mislead will just conclude in the opposition in which it was founded in regards of it basic purpose. If you are too spread love and unity in a casing, judging others will just make you a hypocrite to the "adoption" of say idealization. Truth is in each individual, everyone carry a portion of it that makes life everyday a different place, if we were programed to act the same way and have the same knowledge everyday the purpose of our design would be flawed, we all carry interchangeable messages that shift each other program and thats the beauty of it all.

If you are the type of person who believes that there's only one religion and go by the book then no.

However I think that religion can be practiced how one wants.

A Wiccan can choose his/hew own deities while Christians don't.

So why can't a Wiccan choose the Christian deities? Many would find it contradictory but I still remain with the opinion that even though people of the same religion have the same beliefs, I believe that everyone is free to practice religion how they want to.

After all, Wicca is not just Wicca, it has different types of Wicca, like for example, Celtic, Alexandrian, etc... however let's not confuse Wicca and Witch, because they aren't the same thing, not every Wiccan is a witch and not every Witch is a Wiccan.

The same with Christianity, it has different types, example Roman Catholic, Protestant, etc...

In my opinion this is no different that for example, a Christian prefers to say their own prayer alone, instead of reading prayers from a book and saying them with other people in a church. I know that going to mass is one of the Christian's duty, but I am referring to personal prayers. Or a Wiccan and Witch who prefers to be solitary than joining a Coven.

I personally believe that you cannot be both, without dishonouring the other; however I also believe that a person should seek and test their understanding… I am a mystic.

I see several issues with trying to adhere to a western monotheistic faith (Abrahamic) and a neo-pagan faith, besides the obvious heresies with the number of gods.

1.) Doctrine vs. Mysticism: There are definitely a few Abrahamic groups that practice mysticism; Kabala, Sufi, and Baha'i being dominant, but could also include sects of Christianity such as the "Personal relationship with Jesus," folks and Rastafarians (not the wannabes). Some neo-pagan groups are very hierarchical but nearly none frown on personal interpretation of practice.

2.) Reincarnation: Monotheism tends to believe in spiritual world immortality, and Neo-pagans tend to believe in rebirth on the material (until a level of perfection is reached.)

3.) Magic: Most monotheism believes magic is not to be played with, whereas most neo-pagan faiths encourage it.

Note:
Hinduism, Buddhism, and Sabians fall somewhat outside of western monotheism but are monotheistic (the “polytheistic” in Hinduism are aspects of a monotheistic God) ; as does African/Voudun, Asian Shamanism, and Aboriginal Pagans (and others) fall outside of Neo-pagan polytheism. The Invisible Pink Unicorn and Pastafarians, are monotheistic parody, and as such, cannot be independent religions. Shinto, Gaia, and Ancestor worship, also fall outside these groups, but have similarities to neo-paganism.

Lots of clear responses of "No you can't."


My response: A couple of posts are Just, but the post are flawed as well... Let me point out a couple of things.

1. Just because the "bible" states that one cannot be a witch, does not mean that the bible is the absolute.

2. Just because one follows the ten commandments, does not mean that same individual cannot follow the Rede as well. Harming none is perfect for what "God" wishes for humanity in the first place is it not?

3. Is that not what Christianity is? A bunch of watered down religions that were plagurised for the sake of making another religion? Is that not what RELIGION is? An idea taken from several different sources to affirm ones philosophy and or belief system?

4. This is where the bible contradicts itself. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Excuse me, but if this is so, then moses parting the Red Sea on GODS command with the Staff of Kings would consider Moses himself to be a witch under the eye of persecution for the simple fact that he did use a form of magik to do his bidding.

5. Technically Wicca is a form of witchcraft to be perfectly honest. And if I am proven wrong, then the arguement that was given would be invalid based upon the remards given, and thus being contradictory for the poster to even lay the ground work for said arguement.

6. Both crafts have been here before the dawn of Christianity, so in all due rights, the Wiccan should be the insulted individual throughout all of this. Like I said, Christianity did plagurize many other religions for its own benefit for its belief system to be justified, valid and beyond contestation.

7. Most monotheistic groups belief that magik is not to be played with, and yet they play with it as well... Is not the congregation a form of magik? The summoning of said deity to be present in front of the group of which the Church (Coven) resides? If the individual thinks about it as a whole, then one can assume that religion is just another form of personal magik. I know this may read as insulting to some, but it is clearly justified.

8. All religions should not be judged by their actions or practices, but as who they are. Have they broken any laws made by man or "God"?

If "God" did not wish for humanity to use earth magiks, then the universal energies would not be around for them to use. I think "Gods" intention was to have humanity use the magiks for honourable purposes, but humanity took it upon themselves to set their own rules and persecute those of whom understood more about the esoteric workings and practice differantly then society is used to...

Thus the act of persecution and condemnation to begin with. For those that do not understand the proper applications, confused as to what the bloody hell is going on... To rip apart those they consider worthy of such... To do so, for the "safety" of "name religious group here.

If it weren't for Constantine, certain religions would not be around at all. As he was one of the major approval factors of the past that made present day religion what it is. Changing from Pagan to Christian in the latter part of his life.

So if an arguement would be present, I would base it off of past events such as Constantine's decision.

I am a Christian, and I believe you can. There are tons of different interpretations of The Bible... and I believe God comes in various forms and speaks to people in their languages through their lenses. I don't rule out a lot of religions because of this. My method may be unorthodox, and I know people will disagree with me on it, but I can't help it.

I go to church every Sunday, am in a rigorous Theological Education program, and I know what The Bible says more than your average bear. And with that, I am still very connected to my ancient bloodline roots in Asatru (Norse Paganism). I understand where people are coming from when they say you can't... but I understand The Bible in a different way. I know very well they believe my understanding is the 'wrong' way, but, that's on them- no skin off my back. I empower them to keep believing in what they do, because I rather appreciate respect for my own beliefs.

As for witchcraft being condemned in The Bible, it also spotlights it in a section where it was not necessarily condemned- The Witch of Endor. She was used as more of a prophetess, and she assisted Saul in summoning the spirit of Samuel.

Worth checking out: Christian Wicca Defended

My response: A couple of posts are Just, but the post are flawed as well... Let me point out a couple of things.1. Just because the "bible" states that one cannot be a witch, does not mean that the bible is the absolute.
--
If you are a Christian (or Moslem), the bible is absolute, even if not necessarily literal.

2. Just because one follows the ten commandments, does not mean that same individual cannot follow the Rede as well. Harming none is perfect for what "God" wishes for humanity in the first place is it not?
--
Agreed… but the ten commandments are Universal laws and not proprietary, such as eating pork, or which day is Sabbath, and allegiance to proprietary customs are integral to commitment to covenant, which is a mandatory part of Abrahamic religion.

3. Is that not what Christianity is? A bunch of watered down religions that were plagiarized for the sake of making another religion? Is that not what RELIGION is? An idea taken from several different sources to affirm ones philosophy and or belief system?
--
No… Christianity is an independent world religion that issues from previous incarnations of the covenant. To be a good Jew and to recognise the new covenant of the returning Messiah and to accept the new covenant make the religions different. By adhering to the new covenant one cannot say that you are faithful to the old covenant as well… it honours the old, but is independent.

4. This is where the bible contradicts itself. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Excuse me, but if this is so, then moses parting the Red Sea on GODS command with the Staff of Kings would consider Moses himself to be a witch under the eye of persecution for the simple fact that he did use a form of magik to do his bidding.
--
Interpretive…Besides, the bible is written for people… not prophets. Prophets are no more people than people are animals. Their spirit is different and more capable of understanding advanced divine principle (magic) than are those who do not contain the Spirit of Godhead. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing… and so magic is forbidden by most religion.

5. Technically Wicca is a form of witchcraft to be perfectly honest. And if I am proven wrong, then the arguement that was given would be invalid based upon the remards given, and thus being contradictory for the poster to even lay the ground work for said arguement.
--
Witchcraft and Wicca are different. Many Wiccans cannot perform magic… and many Witches are not Wiccan. A witch is someone who is capable of the application of advanced principles (even if they do not fully understand the principle.) A wiccan may practice the form of witchcraft, but is probably not capable of it, until after more study than most are likely to endure.

6. Both crafts have been here before the dawn of Christianity, so in all due rights, the Wiccan should be the insulted individual throughout all of this. Like I said, Christianity did plagurize many other religions for its own benefit for its belief system to be justified, valid and beyond contestation.
--
The influence of Celtic mysticism on Christianity and Roman or Western culture can hardly be called insulting. It is like music sampling, it honours the originator in proportion with the influence over the tribute. It is only when ignorance of the source by the following, or by disrespect of the source by post generations, that an adherent to the source might feel insulted. It is not worthwhile to feel insulted by the ignorant.

7. Most monotheistic groups belief that magik is not to be played with, and yet they play with it as well... Is not the congregation a form of magik? The summoning of said deity to be present in front of the group of which the Church (Coven) resides? If the individual thinks about it as a whole, then one can assume that religion is just another form of personal magik. I know this may read as insulting to some, but it is clearly justified.
--
Ritual is an intermediary step; it loans strength to those who do not have it. Wearing a tie and good shoes is the ritual of a good businessman. After one is a good businessman, you no longer need the shoes and tie. The same can be said about the costume of goth or any subculture.

8. All religions should not be judged by their actions or practices, but as who they are. Have they broken any laws made by man or "God"?If "God" did not wish for humanity to use earth magiks, then the universal energies would not be around for them to use. I think "Gods" intention was to have humanity use the magiks for honourable purposes, but humanity took it upon themselves to set their own rules and persecute those of whom understood more about the esoteric workings and practice differantly then society is used to... Thus the act of persecution and condemnation to begin with. For those that do not understand the proper applications, confused as to what the bloody hell is going on... To rip apart those they consider worthy of such... To do so, for the "safety" of "name religious group here.If it weren't for Constantine, certain religions would not be around at all. As he was one of the major approval factors of the past that made present day religion what it is. Changing from Pagan to Christian in the latter part of his life.So if an arguement would be present, I would base it off of past events such as Constantine's decision.
---
Yes, as explained before, adherence to an old covenant is breaking the covenant that you supposedly believe in. Disrespect of the previous covenant is also illogical, as it dishonours the stage necessary for the current development.

The current developement of our spiritual nature is the standard of Magic which is safe to practice. Beyond that standard, teh chance that you are inhibiting your understanding is more likely than you benifiting it.

well what I think is that its possible to be both , Chritianity tried to convert people by assimilating the pagan beliefs of the time. Wiccans do believe that you are not to harm anybody and that what you send out weather it be good or bad it comes back to you three fold . You can say that with this alone you are also encompassing all the christian laws. On a personal level I chose to be Wiccan I do have freinds that choose both but that is their decion.

Wow this is going good. Keep it neat people.

I would have thought it was a direct conflict, especially as the main Christian churches regard everything which could be termed Pagan to be evil.

I was raised a Catholic but turned my back on that manipulative institution when I was about 12.

It took me a while to find my path, but eventually I found that the old ways were the true ways.

However, it must be remembered that the Christian church stole just about all their beliefs from the old faiths and of course many of the Christian feasts are conveniently skewed from the Wheel.

Personally speaking, I think that it is far better to think for yourself than to have some hypocritical priest doing your thinking for you.

Everyone should find their own path.

Something worthy of note here... you can't say 'Christian' and think you're talking about everyone. There are countless denominations with different views and interpretations- each claiming they have the 'real' answers, and truly feeling/believing it. So - the answer to this question is 100% subjective to the brand of Christianity you speak of. And you can't even spout Bible verses saying it can't be because this Bible says such and such. The Bible also says tattoos, shaving your beard, and wearing cotton linen combos are abominations.

AllI do know is, there is witchcraft in The Bible, there are tools used to find answers from the divine much like rune stones (urim and thummim), and there were always astrologers (the three wise men). Those things alone show me that various forms of paganism are quite similar.

You can state all the things The Bible says you can't do, I can state even more... probably things most Christians are doing but conveniently have the answer as to why it is okay today, as opposed to things that don't fall in line with their agendas.

I believe it IS possible because, as was already said, there are many interpretations of the bible... But also... maybe you have a way of interpreting it... but you don't truly believe in everything it says... Honestly, depending in your own personal beliefs and standards... you could incorporate any two religions together almost... It truly just depends on the person.

The only exception to following two religions is if one of them is Judaism. One can be Jewish and almost be anything else. And that is because being Jewish is also a culture and not just a religion. A play on the word to some but not really. A Jewish witch, Jews for Christ, etc. And that would be all correct.

As for this, 'I can call myself anything' BS well ... it don't work that way folks. Religion follows doctrine and dogma. It doesn't change or vary because "you" want it to. I hated to see Buddhism and then Wicca change into a religious format. They should have left them as "A Way of Life" but no, people love to live in a box. And religion is a box. Once you start talking outside that box, you're not talking that religion anymore but something else. Its exactly how and why these other Christian religions formed from the Catholic church.

If your going to following your own dogma and make your own doctrines up fine but you will need your own name for it. The others are already taken.

It depends on what your denomination is. We have no real doctrine in the Episcopal church... there are only 2 things you have to believe... everything else is personal and not directed by the church like most denominations. That's why we can have serious conservatives and serious liberals in our church, all these 'musts' just aren't there. No one gets kicked out because they don't buy into certain things.

The Bible does not state one cannot be a witch. That is a mistranslation years later and he didn't ask about witchcraft, he asked about Wicca which is eclectic and very different from Traditional Witchcraft. I don't think that word was even used in any context.

I have to agree with what is stated farther up that people can believe more than one thing in whatever way they want. Belief has nothing to do with fact, it is based on faith. Whose to say what is right, that is a judgment. If you look at apocraphal writings, supposedly the angels taught man magic, therefore it came from (supposedly) the celestial realm. Doesn't mean it didn't exist because some (supposedly) got into trouble or it was necessarily a negative practice. I think most assuredly anyone could be more than one thing and even though it is called a religion, Wicca has a very strong ethical base in most sects. They believe in doing no harm to man, animal or the earth. I cannot see why that couldn't be a compliment to the other belief and go together very well.

"The Episcopal Church maintains that the Holy Scriptures are the ultimate rule of faith. Its symbols of doctrine are the Apostles' and the Nicene Creed and the Thirty-nine Articles of the Church of England, with certain modifications to fit American conditions."
~ from answers.com

Now if one's own church varies from the norm and works better for you fine and dandy but there are indeed doctrines to all religions. Nature of the beast. If one is aware of them or not or is focusing on other things within that faith and doesn't really use them them yet well, but they are indeed there. They have to be. Some do have more flex than others. During my studies I learned that even Judaism is flexible IF the Rabbis can find reason for it in the scriptures. I was told this is necessary for the culture and religion to survive. Never knew that before. But, it has to be in the scripture somewhere to make that change. You can't just pick and choose ideas to add or change and still be the same.

And now for my "interpretive" response:

"but the ten commandments are Universal laws and not proprietary, such as eating pork, or which day is Sabbath, and allegiance to proprietary customs are integral to commitment to covenant, which is a mandatory part of Abrahamic religion."

I know this one was agreed upon, but I will add a bit extra... The commandments have really nothing to do with "the eating of pork." I thought this was a differant religious aspect? Jewish mayhaps? Does the Jewish faith follow the commandments as well? (Note, I am only throwing this out there for a clear view for all members... I do know the answer.)

"No… Christianity is an independent world religion that issues from previous incarnations of the covenant. To be a good Jew and to recognise the new covenant of the returning Messiah and to accept the new covenant make the religions different. By adhering to the new covenant one cannot say that you are faithful to the old covenant as well… it honours the old, but is independent."

Alrighty, to prove my point... Let us take a look at the Christmas tree, oh so celebrated on the "day Christ was born", being an allegory of jerusalem and the gifts of the kings? The truth of the matter is that the tree was clearly of Pagan origin and not Christian. Borrowed beliefs and thus plagurized.

Easter, a Christian day of "Christs ressurection...":

"The 'Christian' festival of Easter comes from the same source. Easter comes from the Babylonian goddess, Ishtar, (Semiramis again) and it celebrated her son, Tammuz, who was, wait for it, the ‘only begotten son of the Moon goddess and Sun God’ - Nimrod and Semiramis. The ‘Easter’ (Ishtar) eggs and the ‘Easter bunny’ also come from Babylon. Queen Semiramis said she came from the Moon in a giant egg and this became known as the Ishtar egg. Tammuz was said to be very fond of rabbits and so we have the Easter bunny.

Oh yes, and they also ate "sacred cakes" with a T on the
top - the origin of our hot cross buns. The T is a major symbol of Freemasonry because of its associations with Babylon and Tammuz. The Christian wafer used in Catholic ceremonies comes from the Egyptian ta-en-aah – the sacrificial bread of the Moon. Christians think the bread symbolizes the 'body of Jesus' when they are really involved in a ritual about the Egyptian Moon
god.” (Resource is taken from the book entitled “Tales from the Time Loop”)


"the bible is written for people… not prophets. Prophets are no more people than people are animals. Their spirit is different and more capable of understanding advanced divine principle (magic) than are those who do not contain the Spirit of Godhead. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing… and so magic is forbidden by most religion."

This section "the bible is written for people… not prophets." is neither here nor there concerning this discussion... As we are discussing magik vs miracles. Though the last part I do agree with. Which is why I stated that most religions do condemn the practice of esoterics because the authoritive figure heads do not wish for their "powers" not to be misused, but rather the regular mundane to come into a power of their own and rebel against the authority.

"Witchcraft and Wicca are different. Many Wiccans cannot perform magic… and many Witches are not Wiccan. A witch is someone who is capable of the application of advanced principles (even if they do not fully understand the principle.) A wiccan may practice the form of witchcraft, but is probably not capable of it, until after more study than most are likely to endure."

Alrighty... But this paragraph does prove my point telling the audience that the two are indeed the same thing, just practiced differantly. This line " A wiccan may practice the form of witchcraft, but is probably not capable of it, until after more study than most are likely to endure." does validate my arguement, since all individuals need practice and understanding to performa ANY kind of magik.

"The influence of Celtic mysticism on Christianity and Roman or Western culture can hardly be called insulting. It is like music sampling, it honours the originator in proportion with the influence over the tribute. It is only when ignorance of the source by the following, or by disrespect of the source by post generations, that an adherent to the source might feel insulted. It is not worthwhile to feel insulted by the ignorant."

To this I agree. I only threw out the term "insult" to gain the perspective of "a feeling towards said group." But it still proves my point that "like the sampling of music" thus borrowed or plagurized Paganism... I like the analogy though.

"Ritual is an intermediary step; it loans strength to those who do not have it. Wearing a tie and good shoes is the ritual of a good businessman. After one is a good businessman, you no longer need the shoes and tie. The same can be said about the costume of goth or any subculture."

Thus proving my point further on as being a Wiccan with ritual can be a "name your religion here" based upon said "groups" ritualistic behavior.

Religion is a very diverse field. I do not see why one cannot be caught within the circle of multiple religions. Save for those select few that seem beyond contestation... As going "by the book" having society thing that "their word is law." Such authority would make me either not wish to join such an authoritic religion, or join it because it claims to be "the be all end all of all doctrine."

Ultimate rule of faith, but you don't have to be a literalist with it. I do know this, as it is my chosen faith. I can whip out my text books from last year that are undoubtedly far more accurate in regards to my church than answers.com. We actually spoke about this very thing in class- where some of the students were shocked to hear we really have no 'doctrine'. There's a reason why we're always in news and being called blasphemers. I don't believe we are, but according to conservatives, we're off our rockers. So be it.

Anglicanism ('Episcopal Church' in the USA) does not possess an agreed-upon confession of faith like the Presbyterian Westminster Confession, nor does it claim a founding theologian like a John Calvin or a Martin Luther, or a central authority such as the Roman Catholic magisterium, to set the parameters of acceptable belief and practice.

I believe the discussion is conclusive- if not clear at this height of play, and both sides hold a degree of reasoning. If you regime by the book then you cannot open your views in multiple absorbtion, because you can't hold a weight in contradictions between the deliverance of both ideologies. Thus if you embrace an singular open overview of the core base of the doctrine and extract the real value in which it was based upon, then you could grasp for various philosophies within a personal practice.

And this is one thing that should lead to "spirituality" not religion. Welcome to the Ascension! But people are still holding on to old labels. Once you loose doctrine you are not talking a religion anymore. Labels and comfort zones. Hard to let them go. Do people really need these labels?

I see the "What is a witch?" Can't be witch and Wicca? Wicca can't do magic? What about ritual? Know what separates humans from animals? Go ahead, take a guess. I have seen so many of various names for Witch and then they still make more by adding "neo" in front of them. Come on people. Move on. You're making most of this up as you go along.

Every-time the same thing. Spirit comes and then dies to become religion. You can't have two religions but you can use one to build on and then add to it to personalize. It will loose the old religion tag but it will become yours. And isn't that what you really want?

If you find yourself in a religion that has doctrine you can't jive with... yeah, you shouldn't stick around. For some people though, we're not bound by the same 'rules' as others. I personally dig being involved in one that is truly inclusive and not exclusive.

Depending on who you ask this thread's question, you're going to get a different answer. 'Christian' is not the same across the board, even though it sure seems it would be. A Pentecostal wouldn't be caught dead in my church, a huge difference... one that causes hate and discontent for some.

You can be both, depending on your Christian flavor, and depending on your Wiccan surroundings- because some Wiccans don't jive with it either.

Most likely the same reason why Universalism is so popular with Wiccans. Witches however are a different story. Covens come first. Harder to fix a religion on them. After all, they call dieties more often then Chineses take-out!

I personally can't knock religion because it did get me to where I am today. But it always changed on me as I grew. And somewhere it just went its own way. I know how people take their own faith. They hold on to it as if it's part of them. Growing pains hurt, many things will change. Might be Chakra issue but I'm not too sure. Something I'm looking into at the moment.

The last two posts ~Billy~ are right on the money and precisely where I was going next. You seemed to have covered it in a nutshell. Even about the plaguristic aspect of "claim your new religion here."

If only society would see where the flaws are in "religion" itself, being that of authoritic persona to covern the belief systems of the individual, rather then attaining that spiritual side that they would deny for the sake of the "religious" context itself.

If only society would see the spirituality of it all rather then charishing their religious philosophys more then what remains as their own blueprint of life spiritually.

In the end, all it really boils down to is an earthly war on who is right about where one goes after they pass away into deaths grip. Once one gains the concept of spirituality as a whole, then they may not have that fear of the death, and wish to be accepted into the "what lay beyond the veil" and shed their fear of it, and just go with the flow.

Religion = fear
Esoterics = escape from that fear.
Spirituality = freedom from both the escape as well as the fear.

This would be my conclusion.

I think it's possible to be a Christian and a Wiccan.
A lot of pagan/Wiccan issues are still used in Christian belief, only they are going under a different name now.

Well placed to one and all of you. Once you transcend the surface of every philosophy and comprehend the basics placed upon its designation,- then you can see life with another eyes. You could smile at the surroundings by just seeing the superficial "reality" and wanting to escape from it, you could understand why some spiritualist retreat from society, and why certain tribes even knowing the growing technologies outbound they decide to live in the nature, you understand that is impossible to help others in personal levels and you have to do it latentive or by deceiving the truth, you could understand that the only thing changing in life is what you learn from it and what you do with it, thus you must be good to yourself and others while enjoying your current state,- material things can only develop a trait (greed) you do not require to acquire happiness, for it is in the simplest forms.

I like the last conception that Soulshroude replied at his last post: the fear, escape and the absolute of both.

Eh HAHA. Sorry but really, going into what these faiths really mean would mean that a person could not ever be both. Go back a couple of hundred years. Claim to be a god-fearing christian and also a witch, and yeah the church would still burn you or drown you.

But we aren't answering this as if it were a couple hundred years ago- it is now. And now, it's frankly up to the person. And there aren't many people these days who aren't a combination of several faiths. There are religious hybrids all over the place.

Think about people in Mexico, Central, and South America... and how their Roman Catholicism mixes with Native Indigenous 'Indian' practice. You have a combo of Christianity and native spirituality there... much like many people here in New Orleans with Catholicism and voodoo. This stuff isn't new, and it goes back a couple hundred years. They were doing it right here where I live- they were it, they claimed it, and they weren't burned at the stake. The Catholic church even allowed Marie Laveau (the famous voodoo queen of New Orleans) to practice it on their property as she was also a devout Catholic). Burning at the stake? That's still a cultural thing and what might have happened to people in some places because of it, doesn't mean people weren't it there altogether. They then just do it in secret.

Yes it is possible to be both. That is were Santeria got it's starts. At first the Christianity was forced then the practitioners of Voodoo combined the two into Santeria. Christianity can be found at the base of many religions, it just were it spins off to that is in question.

Very true. I have a little experience with that due to my husband taking me to live in Miami for a couple years. My husband is Cuban, I'd actually never heard of Santeria until I'd gone there... he'd always known about it.

okay, since I do have a Christian aspect here, I will answer this one, it does appeal to me...

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believeth in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life"

This passage does not say that God so loved the world He gave His only Son only for those who have a perfect Christian faith... it says whoever. Whoever means anyone and everyone who believes. So yes, I do believe the two could be combined. Anyone have any arguments against this?

I don't argue with it, but someone else is bound to :) In the New Testament- Jesus ministers to people that are not Jews, all they had to do was believe in him in that moment and he helped them.

Some people feel so strongly about their faiths- nothing else could be valid but their point of view. To me, that is a scary thing.

Only problem with the JC thing is - there is no "Jesus-ism!" Jesus may have went for the anything you what but Christianity is from Paul and seconded by Peter. The church came from them, not Jesus. James wanted the teachings to still reflect and stay with Judaism and not start a new one. John the Baptist's followers are still with us though. But the "P"s won. O'well. But like I said before, the spirit looses. People don't connect to it. At least for long.

Once you take away ritual in wicca, you'll see that religion die too. Something new will surface, always does. Hell, I see a few post already where someone stated that they/wicca don't practice magic and only witches do. Got to make up your minds. Pick one - any one. You can't be in two places at once.

For those of whom say that the wiccan does not practice magik, this would be contadictory since wicca is a form of magik...Duh!

NOUN: 1. A polytheistic Neo-Pagan nature religion inspired by various pre-Christian western European beliefs, whose central deity is a mother goddess and which includes the use of herbal magic and benign witchcraft.

Find source: here

Since ~Billy~ brought up the fact that both "Peter" and "Paul" took the initiate and instigated the religious following... Then that would leave "Jesus" on his own. I will not quote from the "scripture" since this is not may way, so instead, I will put it like this:

Jesus from the start, spoke to society about how to attain this so called "eternal life." He basically said to them that to get to heaven, they must believe in "Jesus" whole heartedly. To "follow his teachings and learn from him... NOT "worship" him. Therefore, by his teachings, they may gain a philosophical viewpoint of how to maintain their lives in confidence and enlightenment in order to gain admittance into the "house of the lord." Which is "Heaven."

Of course, this philosophy had become a bit bastardized by society for the benefit of their own agenda's.

So apparently, by what "Jesus" discussed, he really had no religion... Just his own philosophy. A Universalist is what I would call him.

Christianity was never about "Jesus's" teachings... It was always about... Worship and believe in "Jesus" as he was said to be some sort of Demi-God under his father. This is the way society believes it to be.

What does this have to do with wicca? Everything... Those who believe in the "bastardized" teachings instead of what "Jesus" philosophized about, would immediately shun the wiccan faith and therefore condemn it appropriately according to what their "teachings" dictate.

In closing... It is really not about one of the most prominent religions being "Christianity." As this is only one out of many many religions out there. "Christianity" is not the be all end all of religion by any means.

I would say that wiccans may choose their added philosophy much like that of "Santeria" as a source referenced by ~Images~, but they must apparently choose wisely to which religion they would prefer with out such religious persecution.

There are a few out there that would openly accept the wiccan, such as the "Universal Life Church." But don't quote me on that.

Yeah, Jesus wasn't a fan of religion at all :)

Pish peh blah. Why change now what has been the same since it began? Because it's the 21st century? If religion is going to be customised to suit each individual person, then why the hell bother having one at all? You cannot dismiss the roots of something and then call yourself a firm believer of it and follower of it. You cannot decide what can coincide with what simply because no one cares anymore and you can safely say that you believe in god and you're a with without being burned. With faiths you cannot put your finger into two completely different pies.

I've seen both be done and I would imagine it is possible as long as the person found a common ground between the religions. In a lot of ways they are similiar and likewise with the being different. There is no law stating you can't be bother. But that also makes one wonder if it is possible to live both equally?

It would depend on the definition of both religions.
For instance, if the definition of "Christian" is a belief in Jesus of Nazareth and the definition of "Wicca" did not mention any particular denial of the existence of such a person, then yes.
However, if the definition of "Christian" is a follower of the Christian bible and its teachings, then no, because witches are damned outright in the bible.
Also another possibility to consider is that the person simply may not be considered in good standing in one or both faiths, just as it is possible to steal or lie and claim to be Christian, the "sin" (and I use the term very loosely, as I am Wiccan myself) of practicing the Craft also may not bar the person from their church.

Most importantly what everyone should consider is that no matter what it is the individual who decides what their faith is and no matter what anyone says it is still their faith.

Well, Cherry, if that's what works for you- live by it. Thankfully the rest of us have a choice. I mean, do you want me to dictate what you have to believe or don't? I'm sure you don't.

Spirituality is very personal. You can't force someone to truly believe in things they don't. Other people's paths have never bothered me, as long as they weren't hurting others.

Wow. How can I answer the question without touching someone "nerve". Well, I don't think that a Human can follow two religions that are so different from each other. For a Christian, the word "Wicca" mean being different and being associated with dark power. Yes, there are plenty of people that follow both tradition, but the question is, Are they being honest to themselves? or are they using religions for other purposes? Who know. Those religions, my own opinion, can not be follow at the same time. IMPOSSIBLE.

Christianity in and of itself is very diverse in its beliefs. Talk to a baptist about catholic beliefs, then a catholic about baptists beliefs. You'll see in those discussions alone how different even the same core system can be. I think what really matters is sticking to what you believe.

witchcraft is also very diverse. Many people who claim to be wiccan are actually pagan and vice versa. Then there are those who chose to base their gods and goddesses within the religion on greek, roman, celtic, egyptian, etc. dieties.

Like the one's who chose Artemis as their patron, can another not chose Christ?

Really I tink people can bend any idea to suit themselves, including religions.

Of course, a lot of wiccans are christian.
Most wiccans believe in some kind of a god or "greater power".
It depends on the person too... if you really believe in the bible, then believing in wiccan rituals, powers, and spells may be more difficult to accept.
For the most part, anyone who wants to be a wiccan, can be.

Wiccan theology is based on god dying and being born every year, with the godess being ever present mother, and wife. How can you make Christian theology conform to this? Is Godess the Creator with god being the prophets (ie Jesus, Muhammad?)

Is this also an explanation of trinity with the mother, child, and father (or a variety of other possabilities?)
Does a year become a symbol of the covenant?

I don't think people are trying to make the two religions mean exactly the same thing and justify each other. I think people the people believe in Jesus, and more than that. Simply. And the trinity is Father, Son, and Holy Spirity- Mary is not in the equation.

*

So for those who think you cannot, what are all these people that are doing it and believing it? Would you saying they are kidding themselves and don't really believe it? Or possibly just ignorant? Either way- as long as they feel they are leading a fulfilling life it doesn't matter what anyone else has to say about their practices. Here are a couple excerpts from the article I linked to earlier in this thread:

"If you’re a Christian who believes that the spirit of God is everywhere and in all things, then you have to at least consider the possibility that nature spirits are the manifestation of God. And seeing that God is an all-powerful being, he can take on any form he chooses."

"And the argument that Christians have to follow the Bible word for word is a fallacy. No one follows the Bible word for word. I sincerely hope that no one follows or believes in Deuteronomy 13:6-10, Exodus 31:15 or I Corinthians 14:34-35. So we all pick and choose from the Bible anyway; it’s not a strategy that only a few use."

*

And again, to say "Christians believe..." is flawed right off the bat, because there are ton of different denominations that all believe in different things. Serious fundamental conservative would not be a part of this site... and yet I am here, as a Christian (not a fundamental conservative). Obviously I belong to a very different church.

All Christians believe in a single God...
Wicca, believes in a cycle represented by 2 gods.

I was wondering how to make the two horses 1; because you can't ride both at the same time.

I was positting that the trinity to a Wiccan-Christian might be the relationship between the two gods, and the child, being that they would all be aspects of a single God concept.

I was not refering to Mary (either one) or the predominant misconception of the immaculate conception as a God the Father and the Son with Mary being the mother of God and the implication of Her as Godess in Wicca.

I appologize for the clarity issue; as I would not want the similarity of God/Son in both to confuse the issue of trinity.

Did you know that there are Christian religions that do not believe in the trinity? There's just one example of the flawed 'Christians believe...' thing. Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, and Oneness Pentecostals to name a few. They find it monotheistic and 'pagan'... interesting. It's a good example about how questions like these don't really work.

One could say, you can't be a Christian and be gay. Wrong...and tons of other examples.

I find it really odd that many of the 'facts' used to back why this cannot be are based on seriously conservative views, views people raising them don't even believe in themselves. Anyone else reading this conversation understand what I am saying?

it is very possible to be both because if it wasnt then tho god of the christian religion wouldnt let them even think of tht but every person has the free will to believe in whatever it is tht they choose 2 believe in

Only a closed mind could think you could not be Wiccan and anything else. Wicca is about nature and the elements around you. Nothing is greater than that except for the being or force which created it all.

Imagesinwords~ I do understand your commentary, for some individuals is nearly impossible to pass the superficial aspect of a religion and accept the variants which best propels your(others) life in which ever direction you(they) find comfortable without any prejudice of say- ritualistic practice, for some is unacceptable the combination which tend to conclude is a heretic idealism, but the neighbor isn't the same as you, and is something that deserves it own space, at the end the one thinking about how wrong is the ritualistic practice falls on your (figuratively speaking- you=absolute) conscience not on the person practicing. The bible at whole is a point of view of various disciples and followers of the moral message of Jesus Christ, Which remounts in interpretations and progressions of Jesus teachings, Jesus didn't wrote them, so the "message of God" could be vastly misinterpreted and few of the teachings be edited, modified, banned from the sacred book, so one has to think out of the book for a change and look past the verses and understand the what's, why's, where's in the context given.

All Christians believe in an "All there is" God of some kind. All have their own understanding of said God. That understanding connects them to their belief in their spiritual self. Said belief in spiritual includes but limited to; soul, spirit, after-life, before-life, reward in heaven/punishment, and/or higher self. None of which I capitalized.

These we can associate to the upper three chakras.

The wheel of the witch which is the cornerstone of the Wicca belief system, and is Earth/ground based. It follows everything dealing with this planet and harvest seasons.

This can be associated to the lower three chakras.

To have a healthy fulfilling life with Human/God or Physical/Spirit or by this thread's topic - Christian/Wicca, you need to have equal balance with all chakras. And these must be connected to an even greater healthy Heart Chakra to balance the upper and lower bodies.

Think you can handle it? Go for it then.

But it does make me wonder a little about why have two religions? What is missing in your first one that you need to find in another? And what is it that your really looking for in the first place?

I guess for some, they don't like the idea of all or nothing- which is really helpful for those religions that don't place such boundaries. For me, I think it is a really egotistical thought that God only spoke to these people in the Middle East, and it was their duty alone to spread the word throughout the world. I think God is far bigger than the human mind could ever understand, I believe that God comes in many forms, speaking to all people, in their languages and cultural settings. And believing that, for me, does not challenge or get in the way from getting what is taught in The Bible.

I also learn a great deal from and buy into Asian spiritualities, and it doesn't threaten my Christian side either. I think when we can recognize the validity of other people's points of view, the better off we are. We all have a ton to learn from each other. No one has all the answers yet.

Ok, when one says "Christian" the word only means to be "Christ-like"....to be like Jesus, who, whether he was just a man, or a supernatural son of God, was still a great example to live by. So my answer, is yes...you can be Christian and Wiccan at the same time.

One other note...to limit the possibilities of what we can learn and be in regards to spiritual/religious beliefs, is to limit EVERYTHING! Why does it have to be this side of the fence or the other?

Just as I don't believe that the bible should be taken totally literally, neither do I believe that books on Wicca or Witchcraft should. But no one can deny that they all contain good advice, inspiration and hope for those who read them.

It's possible to be whomever or whatever you choose...

Times are different than 'back then.' In so many ways. The fear based religions are going and the ascention is here too. Hard to compare now to fifty years ago much to two thousand years! As for chosen people. They were chosen. For that time period and for those people in that society to understand, the best they can, to spread that particular message. The Jews were to help Jesus, Moses, etc. If Kristna was there, he wouldn't have last very long with blue skin. And his message would have no connection to the Jewish thought or understanding in any form. Mention his name now to many and people and they only turn off their hearing. Mention Jesus and well, different story. Remember, make your speech for your audience.

And for the most part, religion is an one or the other. But we're not going to get anywhere with it. Many Wicca think that magic is an anything goes too and its only intention that maters. It's not - It's action.

Prayer is only heard and answered by action.

What kind of action will you get by picking and chosing. And how are you chosing? By your emotion of the day? Or is it your emotion of the moment?

I'm not a fly by night person with my faith. Quick example, I know I am not the only Christian who doesn't believe that men who shave their beards are an abomination, it's in The Bible though. I think people need to make responsible, moral decisions with everything. And 'moral' is obviously subjective. I'm a part of a Christian brand that puts stock into the modern world and what we've learned over time since the writing of The Bible. Far more times than not it is helpful on both sides to be accepting of others than it is to turn your nose at them.

I choose to not dictate people's beliefs, and hope for the same respect... unfortunately it doesn't always work out. That being said, I still won't let it change me.

It would also be helpful to know why the original poster wanted the comparison between the two. I made a few questions before but is it only because some friends do or the missing personal ritual/ altar or the magic?

There are some Christian sects that do have personal altars in their homes. And yet unheard of in others.

I also have never seen a thread here on VR about "The Course of Miracles." I have read the teacher's edition word for word, front to back. No small feat since, at least my copy, the pages were super thin. Man, what a pain to go through. But Jesus is the one that (supposedly) wrote/inspired them. The book gives you details on manifesting pretty much everything you what. Yep, magic spells from JC himself. Short version, of course. Add these teachings to the religion of Christianity and ... still feel you need to add another religion?

I don't know, some do. I guess they have their reasons. I still identify with Christianity, although I feel 'connected' to Asatru, and do not invalidate other beliefs just because they aren't my own.

And as for the original poster, yeah... would have been cool to see them back here interested in the conversation they started ;)