Following on from several simular threads in reguard to ~ The Black Veil ~
i was wondering if and where any of the virtues fell into Vampyr logic or law?
THE VIRTUES
Courage
Charity
Fortitude (ability to endure great amounts of pain without complaining)
Faith
Humility (modesty or meekness / opposite of pride)
Patience
Love
Diligence (hardworking)
Chastity (purity)
Justice
Liberality (generosity)
Interesting question...I believe they do.
Eternally,
Heart
Much as with the laws of a vampire, virtues are decided by common sense. Not all situations call for humility. Not all vampires want to be humble. They are nice ideals to ascribe to, but I personally just do whatever pleases me best, within my own limits of reason.
some of them surely fall in place, i guess in houses mainly.
hmmm perhaps you are not the only one who misplaced chastity...i thihk i did on occasion, and if ever kept was by force of not finding equal....lol, humility gets lost at times, but over all many of them do have a place.
*laughs at Stabb's comment*
I can't speak for their place in the "vampire" community, but I believe they play a vital role in perhaps someday shaping a society where our children can play without fear and people consider how their actions weigh upon the whole.
All social groups have certain understood ideals to which all members strive
smiles yes i have ponderd the thought of what may become of the Vampyr race as a whole if Chastity held strong
would we have a race or a war within our breed to eradicate some types of creeds
eg:- would psy and ghost type try to wipe out the blood feeders?
Funnily enough, I've read of some Houses disassociating themselves from The Blood.
i think some things domonish as we age andothers grow stronger, but as a whole, i do believe some of the virtues hold true still
The Black Veil is a set of common knowledge rules which are casted out to the community for general knowledge. Yet, when someone becomes apart of a house or someone wish's to live by standards as a Nodist (Vagabound, Ronin, ect) then they will make another set of rules, more defined and detailed to fit their needs and their method of learning.
- Sin
aww the virtues a balance to the deadly sins. If sin still holds true in this weird then so do the virtues.
Can anyone here really claim chasity? Of mind if not of body?
Interesting point about psy vamps maybe trying to kill if blood drinkers. That's definately something I've not thought about before.
As for the virtues... I'm not sure.
virtues have their place, as do the sins.
you're choice is whether to follow any of the virtuos paths, or to discard them utterly.
remember, no matter what you are, karma will come and bite you on the ass someday. whether in this life..
or the next
I believe it depends on the vampyre themselves whether those virtues hold true or not. They do with me when it comes right down to it.
I believe the virtues all hold a place - and a time! They can't all be held to rigidly all the time...
i think its all choice- but if it isn't than chasity shouldn't be one.
love zani
Everwhere there are virtues they can be even individualistic I have lots of virtues for example.
like every other race, there are rules, rules mean following, that covers 3 already
in every society there are virtues, evil and good, a vampire is not a force of evil, its merely stated that way. therefore a vampire could also be a force of righteousness
One must certainly have a certain level of virtue or value. Without it, we are but shallow vessels meant to become old and crack from or own vanity.
Vespertilio,
I don't know about that, but with my heart, certainly- does that count?
thanks to everyone
it looks like an even score
that virtues in one shape or form
do have a certian degree of standard within the realms of a vampyric society
bows 2 all for your input it is nice to see some new facespop in smiles
some of them do.... love first
without love, we cant do anything
an interesting idea to pose...but it also has to do with ones beliefs weither or not vampyres are real and weither or not one is a vampyre or who who is not.
someone mentioned virtues being made with common sence, which i partly agree with..but i also think its a learned process about what one would concider a virtue.
vampyres are human...thus should have virtues that are no different from those who are not vampyres...just because some have a condition that others dont should not give them any authority to not have virtues or morals...
"when the worls ceases to believe in ideals, then the world with cease to exist" -me
They do...a vampire as any species struggles to make everyday decisions that impact their way of life. Although everyone has a different code of honor and a way of action these things are always taken into consideration...I do as well.
Fortitude and Patience to me seem the most out of the Virtues-- at least house-wise.
I think those kinds of things should be looked into on an individual basis. As once again morality is a human concept of which is subjective to the region, society, and culture you are in.
i agree with whoever said that it was situational.... i cant say that im very humble in some certain situations (like when im fishing for compliments) and i cant imagine too many people would have mercy on a child-killer... its all a matter of situation and culture....and maturity....
Those who cherish life will deserve life and the responiblities that go with it. And those my Dear would be all the Virtues you mentioned. Even if you are a vampire and have immortality you can still cherish the fact that you have responsiblities, even if there the bad ones.
I feel that virtues generally coincide with morality. In that case, a person's virtues in respect to the black veil would generally reflect their religion, or lack thereof.
Virtues should still hold a place in all aspects of life, though they can be VERY hard to maintain.
I'm sure a lot of them do because virtues are part of a being and soul...and since you have at least one or the other they just kind of exist, some being more prominent than others, but still exist.
My thoughts: Just because you are a Christian doesn't automatically make you chaste, humble, etc. just because you're a vamp doesn't mean you AREN'T.
I would sooner say virtues eschew labels- they are a personal choice, & some are held higher than others, depending upon the individual.
im sure that some of them would fall into place just as part of life (or death)
well dear friend as far as my household go's this is what we live by.
The Creed Of Noctem Aeternus
I am Strigoi VII of Noctem Aeternus So We Begin!
Truth is within my night side, all I must do is listen to
myself for I am my own temple.
I lead, explore, learn, inspire, feed, create, love,
provide, dance, honor & pleasure.
I acknowledge my day side is the sensory illusion,
known as the Maiiah.
I acknowledge by night side as my natural,
Primal and Magical subconscious.
I uphold and respect the Black Veil & the Noctem Aeternus
Covenant, the foundation of ethics of our family.
I acknowledge that I am at the top of the food chain,
however, I respect the chain that I am on.
Blood is the life.
I worship those who give me their most precious gift.
Noctem Aeternus is my chosen family,
I honor my Brothers, Sisters, our path and traditions.
Therefore I will experience most in life here and now.
For I am Strigoi VII of Noctem Aeternus So we begin!
HAIL ELORATH!!!
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The Seven Principles
1.Duty (Chu)
2. Justice Mortality (Gi)
3. Complete Sincerity (Makoto)
4. Polite, Courtesy (Rei)
5. Compassion (Jin)
6. Heroic Courage (Yu)
7. Honor (Meiyo)
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Higher Thinking
Live with an open Mind!
To live with an open mind, is to live with Understanding.
To live with Understanding, is to live with Peace.
To live with Peace, is to live with Love.
To live with Love,
Is to live with GOD!
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Noctem Aeternus is an international organization,
which is part magickal order , part vampyric family and a fraternal order,that is based on teaching and learning more on who and what we are.
We are not R.P.Ger's.
But true life vampyres/vampires
coming together with like minded people
for a better understanding of who and what we are.
Noctem Aeternus membership is only for the serious seeker.
open by invite and sponsorship.
No one under the age of 18 will be
Allowed.
We of Noctem Aeternus
hold the Black Veil and the Pillars of our house
in the strictest of respect.
we suggest you read the Black Veil,
and agree to live by it for yourself before
coming to us.
Our way of life is not for all!
These are the traditions and codes of ethics,
for the house of Noctem Aeternus.
ANYONE WHO FAILS TO UPHOLD THEM WILL BE
EXCOMMUNICATED
The Pillars are here for our safety.
The outside world (human or day side)
does not understand who and what we are.
Therefore, for your safety and the safety of the family
we must hold our traditions, codes and ethics with the highest regards.
The Covenant
1. Secrets
Secrets not only protect us from those that would cause us harm,
But they also bind us,
and give us a common ground.
The inner teachings should not be shared with any who are not part of the house,
or ready.
Community secrets are our unity.
The outer teachings are a tool for screening others into the family,
And bring us together.
Share your nature only with those who have the wisdom to,
Understand and accept it.
Learn to recognize these individuals.
Our secrets are our safety and unity.
2. Responsibility
We of Noctem Aeternus embrace the concept of,respecting the Human /Day side worlds laws.
Though we are an international subculture without own codes of conduct,
we still live in there world.
NO member of the family should ever commit,
ANY illegal act which will bring shame, unwanted and unhealthy,
attention to yourself the house or the nation.
3. Minors
Some of us feel that the first signs of Awakening start at an early age.
yes in some of us this is true,
But the risk is to great for a misunderstanding.
Under no circumstances allow anyone under 18
to be initiated into a house of any kind, attend Quabals, undertake ordeals,
or gain access to any outer or inner teachings.
4. Our Mission
All of our kind are of the same great spiritual family.
We are all parts of the spiritual organism that is Elorath.
It is our job to our brethren to see past our differences,
and pull together and try and make something of ourselves.
In doing so we create jobs for those in our nation,
and set an example for the next generation.
Never force our way or will on another,
Doing so will weaken there love for the nation,
thus making it and us weaker.
Let them come to us.
if they feel the calling they will come.
Understand we come from all walks of life and faiths.
teach what you know and learn from them ,
no one has all the answers to who and what we are what you can.
we learn a little from each other and grow.
Our diversity is our strength
Am I my brothers keeper?
Yes I am.
5. Recognition
Respect! and recognize All! Vampyre,
Dark & Esoteric Organizations and Groups.
Our community is far to small to have conflict keep us apart.
6. Creation
Support and host Quabals,
open havens, start a business, encourage and support artist,
Dance, Performances, Rituals and all
forms of creative expression which will help keep the dark flame burning.
We are here to create a culture in which we can all
support each other and thrive at the fullest of our potentials.
7. The Pact Honor, Chivalry and Loyalty
are benchmarks of Strigoi VII.
We seek to resurrect and express the empowering traditions,
of a long lost eras,
While consistently updating them for modern times.
We are all adults and should strive for a higher moral standard.
8. Respect
Always be civil even to your deepest enemy.
Resolve conflicts in private.
Confront those who have offended you,
directly and respectfully.
know that you have the right to protect your Honor , self ,Family and home
but do it with respect.
when in another's land know the laws and respect them.
9. Swans
We are to have two Swans and a mate.
Screen you Swans.
Let them understand they have to be clean.
cause it is not just there health at risk
but the health of the rest of the house as well.
When feeding sexually use protection.
Know that feeding is not only sexual!
When feeding from Blood make sure the donor is clean.
Never feed from the ill, elderly or young.
Never feed from some one else's swan without there permission.
10. Problems
Noctem Aeternus is not a role playing organization,
or society of fang wearing teenagers trying to be something they are not.
We are a secret society in that we maintain absolute,
confidentiality of our membership.
Noctem Aeternus is a neutral family within the,
Sanguinarium and Vampyre community,
we as a family do not get involved in the politics of other,
organizations or games of individuals.
If it has nothing to do with the house,
let it stay were it is.
11. Progress
All members of Noctem Aeternus are encouraged to contribute,
to the family and vampyre community with the fullest use of their
talents and skills.
there is no shame in running businesses for the benefit of the house hold.
Monetary stability provides power to achieve goals of the household.we know you must start some where.
no matter what the job be, a job is a job.
but we in Noctem Aeternus strive to better ourselves.
Never settle for less then you are worth.
12. Family
We in Noctem Aeternus are a family,
and understand that family may not always see eye to eye.
Fights happen in family, words are said and deeds are done,
but what makes a family, a family is how it gets past the hurtful things and deeds,
that unites us.
Try to see thing through there eyes, and understand
why and what they are saying.
So you can better understand were they are coming from.
it is this diversity and open-mindedness that empowers us.
it is that view of the bigger picture that lets us see the cycles and,
commonalities of all in the house and nation.
To become blind to one of them would be to lose a piece of the puzzle.
We are family!
We are of the same mind and blood, let no one come between us!
13. Haven
Open your doors to our kin.
know that doing so will open the hearts of others,
and bring unity, Let our kin knows they have a safe place to rest,
when in our land.
If we can not trust our own kind ,
then who can we trust.
14. Your Word
Your word is your bond.
We of Noctem Aeternus put our Honor first.
If you say something mean it.
A man has nothing if he has not his word.
So when you say you will do something it will be done.
15. Knowledge
Noctem Aeternus is here to teach and learn.
We seek to better ourselves through,
researching who and what we.
One cannot learn if ones mind is not open.
Seek out to better your self in life.
progress is what we seek , how can we teach if we are not willing to learn.
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Initiate Ordeal ( Jahira )
This is the most basic of all Ordeals.Study the Black Veil.
Here we are EXPLORING and TESTING,
The elementary Outer Teachings of Strigoi Vii and beginning to,
experience Zhep'r and awaken our inner dragon.
Prospectii must be at least 18 years of age.
Prospectii are required to know the Black Veil , The Strigoi Vii Covenant and
The House Covenant.
It is traditional that for the Jahira Ascension rite the Prospectii be
accepted by sponsor ( Adra , Sire )
who has at least completed the Calmae ordeal.
during the Ascension the Jahira is given or chooses a Night side name,
and consecrates their own Strigoi Vii ankh.
The qualities of what makes up a Noctem Aeternus member:
Every seeker is a unique experience and there are certain qualities which ,
distinguish a Noctem Aeternus seeker,
from other Sanguinarium or Vampyre families.
1. Realists in that Vampyrism is more than just a fashion statement.
We physically do not turn into bats or mist,
Our bodies do not last forever.
We are human beings who have been modified on an astral level.
2. Ambition and realizing the world is not an easy place and willing to challenge things in your life.
You must realize that you are your own person and if you want to get things done,
in this world you have to do them your self.
3. Individual, you are not a follower , sheep or seeking membership to a Vampire fan club for self gratification or just looking for something to belong to.
You are seeking affiliation with Noctem Aeternus for self growth and to achieve Xeper
individually and as a family.
4. Magickal ability.
No fear but respect of the occult and a skill at ritual and energy work.
Many members of Noctem Aeternus are encouraged to be powerful and skilled in many paths
( Santeia, Buddhism, Gnostic, Christianity, Paganism, Setian, Tantric workings, etc.
5. Support of the family.
We want people who are dedicated and loyal to the family.
Who want to see the success of the household and put it first amongst all other
Occult or Vampyric organizations.
6. Humbleness & Patience.
You have to understand and be willing to make the investment in the family as we are making one in you.
It will take time before you formally get initiated.
If it does not work out there is a reason.
Even if you are an "Elder" in another house.
We respect those willing to take the necessary steps
like all others that join the family.
7. Seeking one's Dragon within.
Seeking one's ultimate state of existence and realizing that pursuit of
this state is never completed and that the journey is the experience.
( Striving for perfection. )
8. Willingness to learn and educate.
Contribute to the household with your knowledge
and learn from the others.
keeping an open mind.
9. Business sensibility.
Understand we all have to eat and pay our dayside bills.
Noctem Aeternus is no place for freeloads or people who sap others.
10. Love of aesthetics
Within ritual or going out, all of Noctem Aeternus,
should be well dressed and presented.
Aesthetics are a powerful tool of communication and atmosphere in the scene and ritual.
We are a decedent and fabulous group as well as we are serious about who and what we are.
11. Serious.
We of Noctem Aeternus are seeking people who take vampyrism serious,
and are not interested in seeing life as a Roleplaying Game.
We of Noctem Aeternus are students of the vampyric life,
and wish to explore every aspect of this dark gift.
that we may better understand who and what we are.
12. A healthy ego.
We do not want people who are ego-manics,
but have a healthy ego or realize they have a big one and are willing to work on it.
13. A good sense of humor.
The ability to laugh at things and one's self.
14. The ability to face and acknowledge.
Face your fears, problems, prejudice and forgive honest mistakes.
We do not want guilt ridden people who hold on to things and can not move on.
15. Willingness to share.
Be open with others with what you have found ,
in the right time and place - and to be silent when it is not the right place and time.
Perhaps not all vampires, but I believe many of them do.
The Black Veil as always been one of my favourite parts of community related literature... but I think beyond generalising, they are probably goo qualities for anyone who wishes to adopt them. Life can only really be what you make of it, and I don't think its really possible for a group of individuals as a whole to totally adopt certain principles to the best of their ability and still be happy.
I'm 1 of the Diligent people I work really hard at what I do and I like it
those mentioned virtues hold a place anywhere, not just in 'vampire law'. makes the answer, "yes".
These virtures are important and msot have their place...It may be different for each...
If they don't, they should, in my opinion.
It's a question of common sense.
I do believe virtues haold a place for us. But for every vampire, their own virtues can be diferent.
I hold a lot of those virtues in high regard, particularily loyalty, honour, trust, and general kindness.
For me they do but it is very different with different vampires/creatures.
mine are
-Freedom-do not be limited.
-Love-love everyone with a open heart and mind.
-Compassion-give to those who deserve
-Intergity-don't fall but rise to your highest
-Loyality-do not be unloyal to the people that matter or anyone in this world
-Aggressiveness-Do what you have to inorder to get what is needed for your team
-Willingness-Be willing to stand up for what you belive in and be willing to do what others will not.
I believe that those virtues can hold a place in every society vampire included however any society that is completely chaste will cease to exsist.
i'd say, it depends on what you believe.
id say some do, but most are useless and need to be cast off. but no offense meant to ne1
love zani
the only one i hold is justice
how long would it take for a HUMAN to hold all of these virtues?
I belive that they hold a place in logic, not sure about law.
everything holds a place it is just if we choose to acknowledge the place that is holds.
that is up to you.