...Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people, living for today. Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people, living life in peace. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one, I hope some day you'll join us and the world will live as one Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can. No need for greed or hunger. A brotherhood or man. Imagine all the people, sharing all the world...
I personally believe John Lennon was a visionary who was far ahead of his time. The song Imagine that he wrote has been the subject or controversy over the decades.
Do you think his solution could really solve anything. That if people could live without religion and the restricting borderlines in countries that we could survive? Or do you believe he was a blasphemer that deserved his fate?
How do you think would be the best way to solve all of our problems, is it in the song Imagine?
I personally love this song, I have for as long as I can remember.
I believe something like that could work for a while, until it became screwed up, or someone found flaws, and took advantage of such a weakened system.
A very beautiful world, but very weakened.
Beautiful song, great idea, but the secrets of life, peace, and utopia will never be found in the simplistic phrases of a song. Greater minds than John Lennon have pondered these questions for eons and we are no closer now than we were in the beginning.
Not to say that there will never be peace, but I find it doubtful as long as man is running things.
I have always loved this song. It would be a beautiful thing if the song would come true, but that is not going to happen. There are too many people on power trips, like our Government. The establishment doesn't want to loose its "controll" on the people.
"We" elect the government. As long as "we" keep putting the same power mad professional politicians in office we have to accept at least part of the blame.
But even if we cleaned house, the filth would find a way back in.
The song to me is awesome, it is sad that man's free will has caused so much unrest in this world.
But the song could take you to a beautiful place...if only the Goverment could find it.
John lennon was a legend, a great lyrist, but also out there.
Nice thought but also a unrelaistic one, and if it did become realistic, I would be very conserned.
the Old Testments claimed 7 yrs of peace prior to the end of coming of man. Dorned by a 7 headed serpent (heads of Continents, as we have seven) , so it would be an omen in a way to me that the end is indeed coming.
A peace gained by the loss of free will would not be a true peace. Nor could it last.
Utopia is a fine dream but unfortunately not very practical.
WOW, this is a green peace thread if ever I saw one. Since when did politics involve imagination? What does this thread have to do with the price of tea in China?
What is the purpose of this thread??
Actually, Imagine is my favorite song. I've sung it and well from what I'm told.
So this thread is about singing a song? Or alluding to peace on Earth? Someone throw me a bone here.
If there was any Green Peace here it was in the lyrical posturing of the song itself.
I was referring to a previous post in which it was stated that it was a shame that man's "free will" had prevented Lennon's words from becoming a reality.
The song was anti-political, anti-religious babbling about a perfect world where everybody played nice. That in itself makes it a protest song of sorts, and therefore political in and of itself.
So, yes it is about a song, yes it is about politics and that is how it has to do with the price of tea in China.
I liked the song myself, I found it hopeful and and "Green Peace-like" in a rather immature way. It was a very pretty song but it was hardly about any world we know or will know.
As in "the price of tea in China" I was alluding to what the bloody it has to do with the Rave in general???
I love the song imagine. But I think it is too idealistic. Human nature can't and won't change over night. So to have this kind of peace would take a lot of evolution in the human psyche.
Until we stop trying to force everyone to think how we think, feel how we feel and see things from our perspective only it just won't happen.
As long as there is greed, jealousy, hate and fear, we will never evolve to a peace loving world.
Religions ( and politicos) are often blighted. The only people offended by lyrics are fanatics, and fundamentalist ( who preach imagination is a " tool of satan") the same people that claim there deity tells them to bomb clinics, bash gay folk, and condemn every belief ( or even denomination) that does not share there religous ( political) fevor. They idealize a world with nothing but devotional ( propaganda) sites online, and on tele. Every religion (politico), with rare exception has ignorant nuts. Only resently have faiths ( parties) addressed such factions, that blanket there insane abuses by warping the concept of religous tolerance. Humanity would prosper without fundamentalist. There are already communities that function, and live without dogmatic dictation, and fundamentalist are threatened by that.
ps. I feel personally that harmony would be a required prerequisite for any attenpt at peace, nationally, or world.
ss- I think that this thread has as much randomness as the every post here. We have everything brought up here. So why the h. are you asking why some one went one step farther on the randomness scale LMAO
Imagine if we all did indeed live in harmony. Some would say its called tolerance, some would call it understanding. Whatever it is called it would be nice. Imagine.
we have been given free will, so even if the lyrics came true.. there would be ones who would look for something more and to get it, war would be waged...
VB, here is a suggested article to google ( sorry cannot link) holysmoke.org tolerate.htm. Some use the concept to repell criticism of henious behaviour.
"To have peace, we must be ready for war." I can not imagine all those nice moments created in your imagination. Never will happen, we are to deep into our mess, called life. There always be someone who want to be in control. There always be evil, because without evil, good will not exist. Imagine, en excellent song. Just a message of hope to a screw civilization. Welcome to chaos!!
I believe the idea of peace iin a screwed up world is always relevant and it affects everyone and everything. I actually agree with what most of you have been saying. The idea of what imagine was trying to say is nice but entirely unrealistic.
John Lennon probably knew exactly that when he wrote the song, he was just asking everyone to shut up for a second and envision what it would be like if they could just agree on something.
Its sad to think about how many people are killed each day just because of differences. Sometimes for no reason at all. The point of the song was to try and get people to look at the bigger picture and see how many peoples lives can be affected by such a simple thing as differences.
The whole thing is actually kind of depressing.
He was trying to say that if people didn't have things in the way...that cause problems.Like religion and war and petty things,maybe people could get a long better and we wouldn't have to worry about killing for a belief or greed or power.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Imagine
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I typed the lyrics out from the cd I have...so no links.
But read the lyrics carefully...it isn't just about religion...it is about having basically Nirvana on Earth.
"it is about having basically Nirvana on Earth". Who is Nirvana?
I dont think it would change anything. Human nature is always out to harm anyone or anything that doesnt fit into their little part of the world.
It would be great if it would work but personnaly I cant see it
I think the world Lennon speaks of in "Imagine" is definitely a Utopian one, although that does not mean I think his words are blasphemous.
I believe that this world can live without religious boundaries; all religion is created by man anyways, and mostly for the sake of finding a scapegoat for the wrongdoings of humans.
As for country boundaries, I do believe those are necessary only for the sake of survival.
Ha-ha one sin lead to others.
Mother nature is unimaginable so is of human nature.
greed of power turns the peepal to angry and thedeceive common peepal and once given top post, theybecome proudy and egoist and forget the aim and organisation. killing and lustful activity is the acts of able. they manipulate the goodness into evil and this is never ending.
fire of dire and lacking things the feast of sins can not make human race stable.
first most problem is population control second is environment purification third is fighting with corruption the level lead to war level of the nations.
UNO lost its importance. the greed of nations (due to their top chairs) makes peace of world not stable. (example pakistan and china). they can make low quality consumables manipulating the prices.
Corrupt Govts lead peepal to suffer the economy. ha-ha economy of nations bubbling grown and struggle and survival of that nations peepal become more struggling and masses starving or deprving...
All fake notes and assessment with no prper distribution system so much unemplyment....
even able peepal suffer due to locals there kicking them out coz they are not qualified for the job on intellactual or qualification level. they sprea hatred and crime.
In reference from a friend, too which I can agree with whole heartedly regarding this entire thread...
"I find a core group that post in flowery threads wish to be unpestered by such inquiry to the threads content, agenda, and relavency. I call them sermon, and testimony threads."
This was in regards to my early posting(s) within this thread that suggested this thread has no relevancy within this forum.
Nuff said...
"...Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people, living for today. Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people, living life in peace. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one, I hope some day you'll join us and the world will live as one Imagine no possesions, I wonder if you can. No need for greed or hunger. A brotherhood or man. Imagine all the people, sharing all the world..."
If there is anyone in this world who sincerely and wholeheartedly wants to achieve world peace and such, it would be me. :) No, honestly, for someone who yearns so much for the world, or at least the world around her, to be loving, compassionate and peaceful... I will have to say this is impossible. I mean, seriously, how do we achieve this? Man, for centuries have put all these thoughts and hopes into words... we can only do so much as individuals.. and yes, there are times when what we hope/yearn for actually materialise... Cherish those moments.. one day at a time, One step at a time.. Hope all you want, people.. But to see a change, we gotta do something as individuals.. But to imagine all the people sharing a world, which is what we are doing, and not doing such a wonderful job at it, the least we can do is focus on the small things to see a big change.. Yeap..
Thank you soooo much for that delight full sermon, may I have my soap box back please???
Then make one expanding group union of souls and put the base aims of the group and let it expand to organisation and after that no doubt it will become community. Many Japanese do operate organisations this way which are ice commune now.
the spread of commune will be on the basis of the thoughts and no stress on financing it and later you can put that any financial contributor is welcome to be active contributor to the community which spreading on certain principles.
I don't know, people need hope that there is something out there better then what they have now...I know for myself that my faith has got me through some hard times and if there was none they I really do not know what would happen
This might be called "indecisiveness" which is on context with "self worth/worthlessness." "Confidence issues" comes up as well.
Well, religion to me, doesn't matter much. I would much rather have a peaceful world than a vengeful god any day. Since really neither exsists some people try to invent or fight for one or the other. That is kinda how things like wars start. These people over here want peace and these people over there want to kill all the peace loving hippies. Then the peace loving hippies get mad and fight back.
LOL or something like that. Again, John Lennons vision was highly unrealistic. For as long as people have opinions we will have war.
War has nothing to do with opinions and vise versa.
War is about greed and wanting what others have...it is about being the bigger bully.If people really wanted peace,they would have it.All we have to do is stop acting better then others and expecting smaller countries/people to bow down to their will and giving up something.
True everyone has an opinion and is freely entitled to it...and we can agree to disagree.John Lennon just expressed in song what everyone at the time wished.To stop fighting because of religion and stop war for selfish reasons.To hope the world could be together on everything...instead of divided or minor things.
*Chuckles* Too bad war is not about the people of the world, but about how the U.N. wants total power. Those who are against this organization, is the country that is at war with it. Do the math.
War has gone on for 1000's of years before the UN ever existed.You blame war on something that wasn't around when the first stone was thrown or spear was used.As long as humans rely on oil to drive their stupid SUV's or claim a piece of land as their own or even little men wanting to be BIG men.There will be war or threats of war in this world as long as man finds something to fight about.
I'm going to sing Imagine at the Underground in Buffalo on Monday night next week. If any of you are in the area, come hear me.
War has NEVER (as far as I know) been FOR the people.. They've been caused by the people, yes. . but how many people, along the course of wars, actually KNOW what they're fighting for???
Okay well if you're all going to be paranoid about war then u need to check this out. www.zeitgeistmovie.com
The world proposed in this song (one of my favorites) can never exist. It hinges on the belief that we are all capable of compassion, competency, responsibility, rationality, individual thought, motivation and productivity on a daily-momentary basis. We aren't. A lot of people can't function with out someone, something, some institution telling/showing them what to do. We create structure instinctively. The world will always have the power hungry, the cruel, the hopeless, the hapless, the lazy, the sheep, etc. We are a herd species, we've just amassed a population too massive to a belong to one single one efficiently. It's a beautiful dream though....
Well from begining the human is trying to make good world and yet do not find goodness work in this world of seven sin and goodness only able to defend the individual self but not the universal nature...
There are always difference there from past and will be taken to future. But we must try to make good world for our next generation.
Personally, I think that we would lose our passion for life.
Without all those things, we would just blend together and all be perfect.
That isnt right.
What ~Venumstings~ was trying to say, is that human nature always takes its course. Society cannot help but to create the seven deadly sins as according to whom ever placed the sins for society to go through.
But, every individual still has choice in the matter as to whether or not their awareness will be capable of such sins. Those individuals that choose not to, have chosen by their unique quality of the "self" on a higher level, higher awareness, to keep their station intact. As to be "above" the average individual. As such, are not pure, but have better intentions then the average individual in the full of "it all."
"Okay well if you're all going to be paranoid about war then u need to check this out. www.zeitgeistmovie.com"
As well, stated from the comment above, I already have this movie plus the addendum within my journal under the "B.S. Report September column" if anyone cares to peruse either or both.
Enough about "soap boxes" , "preaching", "tending to the flock".
Who says this thread is irrelevant? I mean anyone of importance says it irrelevant.
Don't people who are into vampirism and such make up part of the global population?
Which means wars and freedoms a like, such as peace or the lack of it, affects them.
So before you condemn a topic, look at all angles, instead of thinking the subject is round.
There are no peace loving vampires amongst us, as well, this subject has nothing to do with vampires.. Please do not mix context.
May I have my soap box back from you, please?
Religion has been responsible for more blood shed than any territorial conquest. Organized religion is one of the largest forces of evil in our world.
And as far as borders go: I don't believe there should be borders, but I also believe there should be no money as well. Things should not have any form of numerical value and should be given freely out of love for other humans.
But people have called me a socialist before, and they are probably half right. If they have a problem with that then they can just lick me.
I will agree that organized religion certainly has a well-documented history of some of the worst abuses and atrocities in Human history (the Spanish Inquisition and the Burning Times being only a couple of these). However where Economics is concerned, only someone who wishes to take from others would wish as the previous poster does that everything be freely given out of "love" when it takes hard work and effort to create and produce those very products and creations.
While fewer and fewer actually pick up books and read anymore, I would still like to highly recommend the powerfully insightful book "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand, who addresses this very subject so prophetically well.
In the book, a future socialist society is envisioned that is the socialists' dream: a "utopian" society where increasingly government enacts laws that force all to put into practice (under governmental control, of course) the Marxist socialist policy of: "From those according to their ability, to those according to their need."
While for those who only "live for today," such a policy sounds great as it rewards all those who glorify irresponsibility and laziness, yet it is self-destructive to a society as a whole... and for exactly that reason!
Such an economic philosophy betrays freedom, punishes those who produce and who create, and rewards those who simply wish to trade away their freedoms so that they can continue to live parasitically off of the hard work and efforts of others "according to their ability" and suck in everything from them "according to their need."
In "Atlas Shrugged," we watch as government enacts laws that strip away rights to personal property, to the fruits of one's own labors and efforts and, instead, makes it all public property. Thus government steals and siphons away from the true producers, the inventors, the artists, the entrepreneurs, etc., everything they have worked so hard to invent, create, and produce. Thus, they collectively stop producing except as government forces them to do!
Inevitably, as anyone with the brains to think beyond simply "living for today," as Lennon so idiotically encourages of us, under this "utopian" society, the dream quickly fades as those who produce cease to find incentive to do so... as everything they create is stolen from them, including their rights of ownership (copyrights, patents, etc.) to their very creations! As a result, the only ones who benefit are the idlers, the lazy, the parasites who seek only to take and take from those who actually do the work and create the products.
This is turn teaches the true workers and producers that there is no point in actually working more than they are forced to work by government as there is no incentive to do so... no personal benefit, at all.
So... work production decreases and products are manufactured with less and less attention to detail and to quality control. Thus, more and more government (who has legislated away every possible "carrot" as incentive) begins to replace the natural "carrot" of personal achievement under a free economic (capitalist) society with the "stick" of threats and then punishments if they don't work harder and better.
(Yes.. this is also exactly what happened in the Soviet Union where workers and producers were threatened and punished with imprisonment in forced-labor camps in Siberia or outright murder if they would not produce!)
And thus... all freedoms are lost and government is forced by its own policies into becoming increasingly more and more totalitarian and oppressive as the standard of living drops further and further.
And how do we know this to be true? Yet again... people... the lessons of history, itself!
This is EXACTLY what happened in the "utopian" Socialist society that was the "Union of Soviet SOCIALISTS Republic"... the Soviet Union! This is what is currently happening in North Korea and what was happening in communist Red China... until Free Enterprise and the freedom to actually OWN one's own products and creations began to be tested there.
And now... China is an economic POWERHOUSE as never before in history because, finally, the citizens there are able to naturally rewarded for their efforts and, thus, have incentive to PRODUCE and CREATE. THIS is true economic freedom, people. This is true achievement and self-fulfillment... not Lennon's (and Lenin's) "pipe dream" of stripping away freedoms and rights under the guise of making the world a better place!
Hopefully the day will come when China realizes that, as the Soviet Union learned the hard way, communism and socialism is anti-thetical to self-fulfillment and achievement... as much emotionally and intellectually as it is economically.
Wake up, people, before John Lennon's "imagine"-ation and Michael Moore's depiction of Capitalism as evil ends up having us all ignorantly using our currently remaining freedoms to choose having government strip them all away from us!
What's the old saying? Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.
- Upir'
I'm not talking about "real" vampires SS. I'm talking about people claiming to be vampires, therefore, they are human. And individual freedoms as well as congregated freedoms affect humans.
You should clarify next time ~Bloodmother~, as for ~Upir's~ posts, this is exactly what I was talking about. It seems like a contradiction to add sort of "peace" loving thread from an individual who was obviously a totalitarian in the long run. The only thing that I could see Lennon doing was running for office and making the same mistakes that George W. made since Lennon would have obviously lacked the experiance of such a high office. Let alone the tree hugging way seems a bit far fetched in the long run as well.
Peace is what the individual makes of it, it is NOT a social protocal. The civil liberties of the United States are what we have to hold onto, the believes of a FREE nation, under GOD (which ever god you so choose to believe in) by democracies; life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... Brought to US by OUR four fathers!
Spare me the moral anecdotes of green peace and all that Jazz. Individual rights are what we have, not GROUP rights. If the individual actually seeks peace, look to meditation or relaxation... As these concepts attain true peace of the SELF.
End rant...
Hoping for an Utopian society has been the wish of many over the years. I don't think that will ever happen. People aren't going to agree en masse. They would have to be tolerant of other cultural views and give up religion that has been tied to many cultures even to this day. We should realize this with the war in Iraq. Religion is used to explain things and for the cause of atrocities. I personally get weary of quotes from various religions being used to explain ideas and life in general. It has been the scapegoat for many abuses to man. I am not on a soapbox but this thread could very well be a soapbox issue. My thing is why do people try to post only for the sake of oneupmanship and ridicule. Makes no sense to me.
I think the title of the song basically says it all, "imagine." I think that is all these thoughts will ever be. It is nice to imagine a united world in harmony but I just don't think it is the nature of men to get along with each other.
I did bookmark zeitageist movement
I will read it fully... its nice movement...
what earlier peepal dreamt all
Jesus tried to lay the dream, gandhi tried to express it and tried to adopt in his own individual behavier, are proved wrong by current generation laughing at them...
Jesus have sacrificed very highly and that new generation saints such as gandhi did emphasis aim of Jesus to few extent.
Gandhi was barrister and could live rich individual living and he denied that and got great satisfaction being with peepal universally.
The same case of Siddhartha...
I love the song and somewhat believe that the world could work like that. But not for too long..
People have been made to find flaws and weaknesses, so there would be those out there who would find a way to ruin that pleasant world Lennon wrote a song about.
Upir, I bow to someone who knows, understands, and appreciates Ayn Rand. And venerable one (you know who you are) I like the fact that you don't take passively allow verbosity or pomposity to rule over reason.
Personally, I find it rather quaint to blame religion on the evils of the world. While it has certainly played a role it is not the primary evil. And to blame Christianity in it's various forms and incarnations is absurd if you don't wish to add the terror and the bloodshed of jihad.
No one religion is responsible. No one government can be blamed. Though I do take offense at the apologists for democracy who feel that "we" are the creators of horrors that exist in the world today.
Sorry folks, America didn't do it, Christianity didn't do it, organized religion as a whole didn't do it.
As for the song: I said before, I liked it, it was beautiful and certainly uplifting in it's own way. But that world, when designed by men (or women, don't want to appear chauvinistic) becomes socialistic at best, and communist through a natural progression.
It is an easy utopia to promote when you are rich. John still wanted us to continue to buy his records when the world became perfect. And I can assure you that he would not have shared his wealth equally with all.
To aspire to something more is wonderful. But to achieve that which is obtainable and sustainable is even more important.
Okay, somebody take my soapbox away.
Imagine is a cool song that states facts, the thing is that people have been fighting eachother for ever, i dont think it's possible for peace in this world
ofcourse there's not peace on this world.. the government has everyone thinking the world is gonna come to an end 2012.. everyone is freaking out about going to heaven or hell...
Not everyone believes in the 2012 theory... Speak for yourself if you would. I could care less about 2012, personally.
As for the thread, I have already shared my thoughts.
This thread has lost any possibility of a reasonable discussion if it ever had one. No more need to snipe at each other, it's closed.